Elon's right
Posted by MisesLover69@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 79 comments
Trump could threaten to veto the bill & primary those who support increasing spending. Milei did this to great success with a huge minority in congress.
Instead, he aligns himself with Elizabeth Warren, Chuck Schumer, Lindsey Graham, & Mitch McConnell to increase the debt ceiling while fighting against Massie, Paul, & Elon.
Trump is the uniparty. He's no different from Bush. He's a corrupt neocon who lied on the campaign trail for votes. But, sure, keep defending the pro-lockdown, gun grabbing, red flag law supporting, money-printing, Isreal-first, surveillance-loving, Deficit Donald. Maga are CULTISTS!
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
Part of me regrets voting for Trump but the other side of me doesn’t see Kamala have doing much better or different.
Hoosier108@reddit
The cabinet would have fewer crooks and morons under Harris.
unfortunateavacado24@reddit
Both of them would have been 100% crooks and morons. Kamala would have been slightly less neoliberal Biden, it would have been four more years of the same slow steady march towards technocratic totalitarianism.
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
The DNC is filled with crooks.
Hoosier108@reddit
Fewer
deadtoad22@reddit
my ballot had more than 2 names on it
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
You know there’s noway in hell a third party was winning this one, don’t be stuck up.
royaj77@reddit
Definitely not with your attitude
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
I’ve had this conversation before and have argued encouraging people to vote third party but this election wasn’t it. I donate to both Green party and Libertarian too so don’t go there.
Jashrocksyourssocks@reddit
Voting for literal dog shit would have been a better use of your "vote". Voting for one of two evils makes you just as complicit. Dog Turd 2028.
MountainGuido@reddit
Trump is a champagne socialist. Always has been.
unfortunateavacado24@reddit
He's a nationalist Democrat. Democrats are international socialists, he's just a standard national socosildt.
Ravenlock@reddit
None of this is a surprise, or any different than it was the first time Donald got elected. The only new element here is that there are two con men, instead of one.
QuaziBonzai@reddit
It's just going to get worse, he can't run for reelection so he doesn't have to worry about pissing anyone off.
Ravenlock@reddit
His only priorities now are grifting and staying out of prison.
Those were kind of always his only priorities, but we're only six months in to round two so yeah, I think we can assume it's only getting started.
Loominardy@reddit
MAGA = Socialism
MazlowFear@reddit
I am so glad libertarians can look back on the convention and say we were not all completely duped be this shit. Elon should go to jail for all the string pulling he did to get him get elected, he is a disgrace to America 🇺🇸 https://youtu.be/ya6-_OA4As0?si=iKC1U_dQZfakY_N6
Account115@reddit
Trump is fundamentally untrustworthy and self-interested. He has no firm principles, no respect for institutional norms, history or tradition, no loyalty, no interest in truth, no foresight. Nothing. Ruthless and power hungry, that's it.
I have a basic level of respect for both Bush's, Clinton, Obama, Biden, Reagan.... Nixon. I disagree on a lot with them. Very passionately. But they at least maintain a basic level of decorum and some consistent principles, some respect for truth, some basic decency.
He's a prep-school con man turned wannabe mobster. He's like wish.com Mussolini.
HolyPizzaPie@reddit
His tweet tells everything he doesn’t like Elon musk so he is going to wield the federal government to hurt him. That’s the only way his brain works so much so that he doesn’t understand why the democrats didn’t hurt Elon musk. “Well Elon isn’t a democrat, why didn’t the democrats use the full power of the federal government to hurt him?”
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
Institutional norms? So are you saying if he did it the “normal” way that’s okay? The institution itself is the problem.
Account115@reddit
We have institutional checks on the consolidation of executive power. This is what keeps us from descending into the type of patronage or despotic systems that are found in much of the world. This is what preserves the market economy, preserves the level of rights we do have, preserves the functioning of our society. Civil Society norms and traditions. Fair elections, judicial oversight, rule of law, human rights, professionalism, decorum.
Dapper0248@reddit
Presidents are going to use whatever power they have to better the country
Your point is a criticism on congress rather than president
Account115@reddit
Better the country?
latswipe@reddit
newsflash: the consolidation of power into the Imperial Presidency has been happening for the better part of 100 years.
Account115@reddit
Preaching to the choir. This is why I prefer a parliamentary system with a Prime Minister that is strictly subservient to the legislative branch.
The system is just waiting for an aspiring dictator like Trump to come along with a cult of personality and stage a hostile takeover. When someone fundamentally unethical like Trump takes power, the expansion of the executive was bound to go into hyperdrive.
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
“Civil society needs norms and traditions.” Just stop right there you are the problem.
Account115@reddit
We aren't going to agree, and that's ok.
Sea_Journalist_3615@reddit
None of the people you listed were any better. They all have massive amounts of blood on their hands.
Account115@reddit
I support weak executive power. I'd rather have a Dutch style parliamentary system with an appointed PM. But that isn't going to happen any time soon.
But the practical reality is that all of them were and (as applicable) are better than Trump. Mitt Romney is better than Trump, John McCain was better than Trump. Greg Abbott is better than Trump.
They at least represented the country well on the international stage. They at least all knew how to inspire people in times of crisis and build bridges. They at least had some principles and some reverence for America's institutions.
Trump is a national embarrassment. The least possible and most corrupt President since at least Herbert Hoover, possibly since Andrew Jackson.
Dapper0248@reddit
Of course other countries are going to respect the president that lets them take advantage of the USA
Respect is meaningless. Leadership needs strength.
ReadyRooster262@reddit
I guess that's one opinion. I think he's been one of the most honest and transparent presidents we've had
Entropy_Pyre@reddit
The man freely pushes Q-Anon conspiracies that Biden is a robot clone. Says he’ll release the Epstein files and instead pulls a PR stunt. Renames geographical features and pulls press passes for anyone who disagrees with the move. Repeatedly reverses on tariffs. Lied about Project 25’s implementation or was willfully ignorant but completely complicit with its use. Advertises for a car company in front of the White House. Can’t steer straight on Ukraine/Russia, is letting Project Esther attack free speech, screening our social media for the wrong sort of free speech (something he himself championed against), lied about the price of gasoline North Korean style—
I don’t even know how to take him seriously. Transparently unstable I suppose, Biden tried to hide it, but we still have Nero in the White House, and I don’t feel particularly better that we all know he’s lighting the US aflame. And I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that a movement built around exposing corruption in politics has now embraced that corruption wholesale.
I genuinely did hope for better. They weren’t high hopes, but they were there.
ReadyRooster262@reddit
I mean still better then any alternative candidate.
Entropy_Pyre@reddit
You know. I'm not entirely in disagreement with your sentiment. Because I did pick one of the two main candidates. I looked at it like a trolley problem. I did think I made the best choice out of the options available. But at the same time... I don't know.
Deep down I rather wish I hadn't compromised my morals so much. Even if a Libertarian candidate has no chance of winning, at least I would have gone down with my dignity in tact. Right now I'm just ashamed and I have nothing to show for it. Not even my dignity.
CryptoEmpathy7@reddit
How can you even make that ludicrous statement? You honestly believe Trump was the best candidate and better than any alternative? Nothing learned from 2016-2020? Can't rationalize with cultist thinking - online debates with these types are futile, I digress, LOL!
ReadyRooster262@reddit
Name a better one
Account115@reddit
I don't recall him ever saying anything that was honest.
ReadyRooster262@reddit
Get your hearing checked.
Account115@reddit
Do you have an example of something he said that is true?
fosrac@reddit
What a low bar, can't wait to see them fail to clear it
ReadyRooster262@reddit
Tds
ReadyRooster262@reddit
“We will close the border. We will stop the invasion of illegals into our country.”
Result: "Amid Trump crackdown, illegal border crossings plunge to levels not seen in decades"
Now STFU and stay in the basement, we are busy fixing America.
Jashrocksyourssocks@reddit
You have to remember people like him only watch snippets of Fox News where they tell him everything is just what Trump said regardless of the thousands of videos made where he says one thing and then outright says the opposite 3 months later or even sometimes the very next day. No matter how many times he watches a speech just to have the cesspool of government officials and Trump do the exact opposite of what he claims, as long as bobble head says trump good lib bad, it's all truth to him.
JustBigChillin@reddit
You had me until “Greg Abbott is better than Trump”. The things that have been going on in Texas are so far away from liberty and small government, that I don’t see how he is any better than Trump at all.
Sea_Journalist_3615@reddit
"I support weak executive power. I'd rather have a Dutch style parliamentary system with an appointed PM. But that isn't going to happen any time soon."
You don't have the right to have a government over me that is a fact.
"But the practical reality is that all of them were and (as applicable) are better than Trump. Mitt Romney is better than Trump, John McCain was better than Trump. Greg Abbott is better than Trump."
Yet, you provide nothing but your position. Everything trump gets accused of these people did or similar levels of evil.
"They at least represented the country well on the international stage. They at least all knew how to inspire people in times of crisis and build bridges. They at least had some principles and some reverence for America's institutions."
I don't care about that even slightly. I don;t consent to them ruling over me, I am unwilling.
"Trump is a national embarrassment. The least popular and most corrupt President since at least Herbert Hoover, possibly since Andrew Jackson."
Andrew jackson was a piece of shit with the indians and war of 1812. I am embarrassed for you sick statists. I am so tired of your weak arguments and ignorance about history and reality. I am moving on from this, there is nothing here.
sakelover@reddit
Calling all politicians “criminals” is a textbook false equivalence. Trump isn’t just guilty of the usual political sleaze…he’s in a league of his own. He’s lied to the public tens of thousands of times, ran up record deficits and spending, ramped up drone strikes and supported brutal wars like Yemen, and abused his office for personal gain. Now he’s openly using government power to target enemies and bulldoze checks and balances even further. Not all “crimes” are equal, and pretending they are just gives cover to the worst abuses of power and liberty.
Likestoreadcomments@reddit
This cannot be stressed enough
Kaiser_Constantin@reddit
Wish.com Mussolini xD love it
stargazerandmoon@reddit
Well said.
herefortheover@reddit
Well said. Character is a beautiful thing. Regardless of who I think is right, wrong, or in between; I can appreciate and respect people of character and principles. Donnie has neither.
WallabyUnlikely5534@reddit
Yes they outright lied about WMD's and the Gulf of Tonkin incident to enter the US into pointless wars that cost millions of lives. Yes they manufactured the War on Drugs and ruined millions more loves. No they were never held accountable in the slightest. But at least they had DECORUM while doing so.
WallabyUnlikely5534@reddit
LMAO
WMD's, Gulf of Tonkin, Iran-Contra....
Nah, fuck em
Hoosier108@reddit
Well said. Totally agree.
DyerNC@reddit
Same feelings here.
Genubath@reddit
Something that should probably be pointed out with Elon's accusation about Trump's affiliation with epstein is that either he's lying about it and is only lashing out because he's emotional or he's not lying and he knew about it but didn't mind keeping it secret until he felt slighted by Trump. This isn't a defense of Trump, I just think this sort of reveals how untrustworthy Musk is.
MysteriousSherbet827@reddit
Watching the New Hampshire libertarians (and the other libertarians in my life) bow to daddy Trump was one of the most pathetic acts I’ve ever been forced to witness. Of course he’s a lying piece of shit; what the fuck did you expect?! Ya’ll were duped and he made it look easy.
ReddtitsACesspool@reddit
Relax lol.. They are all cultists.. Both sides have their own cults.
FWIW republicans didn't really have any "cults" until people labeled MAGA a cult. The only thing close was the Tea Party but there was hardly any private, regular citizens that would identify as a tea party member
Jqpolymath@reddit
Many would call the christian right a cult...
Corrosive_salts@reddit
Elon is right about the bill and Trump is right about Elon subsidies.
PuppiesnKittens2334@reddit
They're not subsidies. They are contracts won by the company to provide the govt with services.
GodofCOC-07@reddit
There shouldn’t be government contracts.
DancesWithBagels@reddit
Like Harvard.
MisesLover69@reddit (OP)
Elon's called for years, & recently, for the subsidies to be abolished.
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
My thoughts exactly I hate Elon’s company Tesla, I hate EVs, and Elon Musk himself is a closeted leftist, but the Big “Beautiful” Bill is trash.
Corrosive_salts@reddit
Only thing good about the bill is suppressors being off the NFA
BlackmailedWhiteMale@reddit
Oh, I thought you were going to talk about the Epstein stuff.
Megashape@reddit
Israel first? 😅 what?
PurpleMox@reddit
Trump confuses me.. there are times that he really genuinely seems to be anti-war, anti-interventionist.. and it feels genuine.. but then he supports a bill that increases the military budget drastically.... why?
RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit
I've heard several pundits say half-joking that Trump's policy is based on the last person he talked to. It's not far from the truth.
Elon and the fiscal hawks seemed to have Trump's ear early on, but now it's the NeoCons who are informing his financial policy with the tariffs and this reckless spending bill.
CryptoEmpathy7@reddit
Are you being rhetorical? If Obama had acted in the exact manner which Trump has would you even be willfully obtuse and confused as to the pathological reasoning? MAGA "Libertarians" are an oxymoron.
usernumber1337@reddit
You need to understand that the debt and deficit is just a talking point that republicans use when they want to justify cutting your grandma's Medicaid to fund another tax cut for the rich.
And as for Trump, he doesn't care about the debt, the deficit, your grandma, or the rich. Donald Trump doesn't care about a single human being on the planet other than himself. He would slit Don junior's throat for a dollar.
yuumigod69@reddit
Of course but his supporters dont think that.
based_wonderer@reddit
Trump is further expanding government overreach and spending in many of his policies. It’s ironic how so many maga fans say they support small government, freedom, and fiscal conservatism. The current GOP and Trump seem to stand for the opposite of those things in practice.
GazelleThick9697@reddit
The whole thing looks pretty staged to me
organic_nanner@reddit
Republicans and Democrats are the same as Visa and MasterCard.... Pretty much the same thing. Elon was our best hope to cut spending
IndependentName9@reddit
%100. Parties don't exist. It's big Government supporters on both sides. Vs the few for limited Government
pitchingwedge69@reddit
God man. Since I’ve turned 18 I’ve had Trump v Biden to vote for and Trump v Kamala.
I hope people my age will see that the democrats and republicans will never get anything truly meaningful done. I truly believe in the libertarian party has some of the most level headed people and we need them now more than ever.
phase-one1@reddit
Trump is not and never was for you
Sea_Journalist_3615@reddit
Governments are cons, they did not acquire their authority nor their property through legitimate means. Until people realize that declaring that a small group of people get to rule over the entire region without their consent this bullshit will keep happening.
People don;t realize how governments form and then they tell me that I consented to them(slave contract theory, you used the services that if you don't pay for they will kidnap you and kill you if you resist)
You don't just declare "Now we are going to use the government to build roads and if you don't comply we fuck you up."
"Ooh your small town doesn't want to be part of the united states federal government? Well then we will declare you rebels and kill you. It doesn't matter that you were here first" They did this again and again and again and people seriously say the social contract is legitimate.
People who support government are the worst human beings.
The only way to acquire property(land, objects anything scarce) is through voluntary exchange, homesteading and justice(It was stolen from you and returned or payed back ect)
Then the morons respond with "Well you have to give your house to the Indians following your logic" Like it's some kind of gotcha. Yeah, if some fucking indian could prove beyond a reasonable doubt the land I am living on was once his in a court. Collective ownership is not fucking legitimate and the vast majority of the united states had not been homesteaded when we came, yes their were rights violations on both sides and thefts. Not saying it did';t happen but that is moronic argument.
If anyone wants to actually learn what rights are this is the best resource. https://liquidzulu.github.io/
Anyone wants to learn actual economics and not another rebranding of socialism this is the go to site. https://mises.org/library