If Montenegro will join the EU in the next few years, will the EU have to spend millions to "translate" from Montenegrin? How would Croatia react?
Posted by vllaznia35@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 174 comments
Has this issue been already presented? The EU loves to spend stuff in dumb shit but translating to Montenegrin when Croatia is already there would be in the top 5. Montenegro wouldn't accept Croatian translations since they also have Cyrillic and mainly Serbian words in Ijekavian. Do they have to train some Croatian translators on Cyrillic and Serbian words used in Montenegro? Do they have to hire new translators? What would a Croatian translation of a Montenegrin MEP speaking would look like?
SweetRakija@reddit
Used to work in the EU institutions. During certain debates with ex-yu countries invited, there were interpreters for each "language" (Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Serbian). It's very political. If one does not have theirs, they will complain saying it's not the same thing and they can't understand a single word. Literally had a Croat tell me once that Serbian is closer to Czech and Slovak than to Croatian. Interpreters would have to translate live from Serbian to Croatian for instance. So they have on their CV the four languages, that they need to validate through exam.
Also, it's the member States who decide if they want to have a national language translated, and the institutions follow. This is why we have Gaelic and Maltese as official languages, but not Luxembourgish for instance.
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
There are actual people that put on headphones to listen to Croatian from Serbian? That is so embarrassing for them.
SweetRakija@reddit
I don't believe there is anyone doing that haha
vynats@reddit
Never underestimate patriotic stupidity.
unicornsausage@reddit
Where can I get one of those jobs translating Serbian to Croatian?
vladedivac12@reddit
It reminds me when they translated the movie Rane / Wounds to Croatian in the late 90s
Starting in April 1999, the film began a theatrical distribution in Croatia thus becoming the first Serbian film in the post-Yugoslav Wars era to have distribution in that country. Another curiosity of its release in Croatia was the fact that it was subtitled. Even its title was translated from Rane to Ozljede, all of which became subject of much outrage and ridicule.It became a hit in the cinemas regardless, selling more than 40,000 admission tickets (~42,000) in Croatia.
Baz1ng4@reddit
I am pretty sure you misunderstood him, and if he said something it was the other way around. Quite the opposite, many Serbian like to lament that Croatian took too much Czech words just to be different from them, which is also a nonsence.
SweetRakija@reddit
No, I haven't misunderstood, I got a full lecture on the topic.
Baz1ng4@reddit
Serbian never had any signifiant linguistical exchange with Czech nor Slovaks. Croatian did. Had you said Bulgarian or Russian, that would've been much more plausible. I don't know, that must've been either the most delusional rant, something I never heard from other Croat, or pure fiction.
cydron47@reddit
What exchange did Croatian have with Czech that Serbian didn’t? We have Czech-inspired calques too, maybe a bit fewer
Baz1ng4@reddit
Well you answered your own question, didn't you?
There are more words modeled by Czech ones (vlak, tlak, dojam, obred, vodik, stupanj, dražba, pokus, časopis...) in Croatian than in Serbian.
One of the biggest Lexicograph of 19th was Bogoslav Šulek, from Slovakia.
The issue was never that Serbian had no contact with Czech, rather that it had more than Croatian, so it sounds closer to Slovakian or Czech, which is absurd.
SweetRakija@reddit
I'm just talking about one's opinion, an exchange I had in the political corridor. It's not mine, nor the one of an entire country where he's from. Of course it's delusional. And it's anecdotal.
drnnisnilss@reddit
As a part Bosnian with intermediate Bosnian language skills, Serbian is easier for me to understand due to pronunciation , but certain words are more common in Croatian and Bosnian than Serbian. I’d say the eu should stop wasting money, do Irish need translators when speaking English to someone from London? Americans may not understand some Australian words or expressions but there’s no need for interpreters.
forkproof2500@reddit
Fun fact, when I was a kid there was a show on TV called "Språka på Serbokroatiska", loosely translated like "Talk in Serbocroatian". The idea of them being separate languages back then would have been laughable.
Probably this show is what gave me a deep undying love for all thing Balkan.
SweetRakija@reddit
You had such show in Sweden? Interesting! How come, do you know why?
forkproof2500@reddit
I'm guessing for immigrants from former Yugo countries, we had also shows in Sámi and Finnish at similar times of the day.
Here is a clip from it, very nostalgic for me
https://youtu.be/2CzhhY5QxQk?si=7y64eqT1YOtH3iEJ
SweetRakija@reddit
Really nice, thanks for sharing!
vllaznia35@reddit (OP)
What a load of bureaucratic nonsense. Some heavy "translation" required from Serbian to Croatian...I already knew my tax money went to shit in the EU so it's no big deal
Got2InfoSec4MoneyLOL@reddit
Your what in where???
3/10
vllaznia35@reddit (OP)
Well as a true Albanian, I already went to the EU before the EU went to me
SweetRakija@reddit
Well, non-EU delegations usually have to pay for their own interpreters. Not sure I would say bureaucratic, more political nonsense.
GalaXion24@reddit
On the upside, if Montenegro joins, they will also pay membership fees, and translators are ultimately a very small part of the budget. You could see it as Montenegro covering it.
Of course, Montenegro would probably be a net recipient of funds, but that would have more to do with infrastructure development and the like which I don't think we mind.
Vihruska@reddit
That's like the old joke about the official translator from Macedonian to Bulgarian fainting because she had to work so hard to find different words so it doesn't look too similar 😉.
But well, I can understand the political situation with the languages and it's not easy to find a solution that wouldn't lead to very expensive solutions and both parties to be happy, all at the same time.
Ok-Link-1927@reddit
That's quite interesting insight, thank you!
Hologriz@reddit
ICTY in the Hague had "BCS" as an official language so why not just have that, add "M" for Montenegrin. Really no need to have translators from Croatian to Montenegrin.
pavol100@reddit
ICTY is not EU, Croatian is officiall language of EU
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Thats not his point. Croatian is official language right now, because only Croatia is the country of EU with that language speakers. But if any other country with those speakers join, this is an option.
bubimir13@reddit
If.
MLukaCro@reddit
Not an option that Croatia will accept, lol.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
why?
MLukaCro@reddit
Nobody here calls our language anything else besides Croatian. Every member state is entitled to its language being an official one of EU, hence Croatian language is an official language of EU. No Croatian politican who values his/her career will try changing that.
The only time that croato-serbian language existed was during Yugoslavia, so anybody trying to change our language to that name will be seen (and probably is) a promoter of Yugoslavia.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
But you wont have to start calling something else, lol. You cans till call it whatever you want, this is about internationa level.
What? Thats not true. Serbo-croatian language existed since national awakening in 19th century and need for standardization of the language.
Every state is entitled to its language, but it does not have to be called after that state. Austrians dont have Austrian language and they dont complain. It is entitled to the language that they use, which in this case is the same language in multiple countries.
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
Serbo - croatian laguage didn't exits until Yu.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Of course it did. It existed since mid 19th century. Different people called it by different names, but since Croatian language standardized itself based on štokavica, language started to exist.
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
Ling. if people call it Croatian language, it's croatian language. If you have minority call it Ser- Cro, sorry but it isnt, becuse than you can make groups of 100 people that call how they want and thats not how it goes.
After standardization Croatian language couldnt "started to exist" because there was language centuries ago. And štokavica is used becuse esaier understanditng betwen whole population.
Same was for Serbian, language developed throug time.
After making Yu, there was needed to make stand. lang, so they just take biggest nat. and make something outnof this language and not it doesn not exist.
It was too artifical...
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
No its not. Language wont change because people start calling it something else. You can call English American from tommorow on, it wont change anything about what that language actually is. But more importantly, plenty of people did call it Serbocroatian langauge before Yugoslavia existed.
Exactly, and not just Croatian population. It definitely could started to exist, because standardization is how languages become official. So they evolce to something more than just spoken langauge.
It does. And Serbian and Croatian developed in a way that both speakers use the same langauge.
What? I dont understand this sentece.
Lol, it was artoficial :D? Its artoficial if its dictated by people opinions, and not by the facts. You artoficially dividing the same langauge for political reasons. You are literally artoficially creating separate languages, when everyday speakers use the same language.
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
How it could be Ser - Cro lang. when at that time we didn't even had any touch point. Not even same empire, not same history.
Language is similar, not same.
So you're smarter than int. institutions for language that admits both languages.
You're second paragraph, who said that language was only spoken before that. So there are no any document, books, dicitonries.
Royals accidently used all dialects and used to mention Croatian language.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
When? In 19th century? Serbs and Croats absolutly had many touch points. And both of them lived in two different empires. Croats from Bosnia and Herzegovina lived under Ottoman Empire, while Serbas lived under Habsburgs in Vojvodina, Slavonija, Dalmatia etc. History is not the same, but very connected.
Yeah, similar to the point where Croatian speaker from Banja Luka will talk exactly like Serbian speaker from the same city. Its the same language.
Thats not about how smart any individual is, thats politics. You should be more worried about what linguists say. International institutions have to respect childish demans of post-yugoslavian states for "their own language" so they wont throw fits.
What you mean there are not documents? Vienna linguistic agreement is one of the most famous linguistic documents of 19th century.
What royals?
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
And not neven one ling. will say you that Karadzic made Croatian laguage or Ljudevit Gaj Serbian. They made their own laguages, Gaj was not first one that made Croatian laguage. Even fornthose two you cant say that they made language. There were many ling. that made infl.
Yes people live close, but all of them knew who they are.
Yes, and there were many other documents before about languges. (Dictionarium quinque nobilissimarum Europae linguarum : Latinae, Italicae, Germanicae, Dalmatiae [!] et Ungaricae ; Vocabula Dalmatica quae Ungari sibi usurparunt ; Institutio christiana ; Symbolum apostolorum / [Fausti Verantij]. Impresum: Venetiis : apud Nicolaum Morettum, 1595.)
Royals - Zrinski amd Frankopani.
And int. inst. dont work that way, you cant demand something and get it, not even ling. works that way.
After Yugoslavia, its normal that country have offical language. And Yu was made from 6 republics, they had their own history, heritage and many more.
Serv-Cro wasnt made one day like you want it, it became offical in Yu, after mixing it. Before that there was Croatian and Serbian, Slovenian and others. They developed seperatly.
And now today they continue to develope as they did in past.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Yes, because both of them made the same langauge.
They did not. Until national revival it was not clear who is Croat or Serb, religous identity was the most importatn. At the end, catholics became Croats and orthodox became Serbs, but the lines between two nations were not fully clear until very late into 19th century.
Ok, so what? I was responding to your calim, that there were no pre-yugoslavian documents about Serbocroatian.
I dont understand, what do have Zrinski and Frankopani do with this topic? They called it Croatian, so what? Im not saying that Serbocroatian is not younger name, but is certainly odler than Yugoslavian state.
Well in this case you can. Im sure that if Austrians start demanding for world to recognize the Austrian language, institutions would have to oblige. Difference is that Austria has better things to worry about. Tell me this, if thats not how int. instiutions are working, then how did Serbocroatian language existed when Yugoslavia demanded it?
Right, and after Argentina became independent of Spain, it would be normal for them to make up "Argentinian" language. None of that matters. Different parts of those states also have they own history, herritage and many more. Dalmatia, Istria, Slavonija etc. have their own separate history, while sharing many things as well.
Slovenian yes. Different dialects of all lanuages developed separately. Serbocroatian language developed until it got standardized during 19th century, and Yugoslavia only stared to use it as official language.
Yes. As they did in past. Thats why people still can uderstand each other perfectly well, because it was always developing to become one language.
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
So you said you don't understant history and not even ling. how works.
I belove you're not from here, because those nonsense you can here only from foreigners, some of them want to be smart...
1 - No they did not made same languge, in Cro we don't learn abot Karadzic becuse hes irrelevant to us
2 - Yes it clear who was who, Serbs had they own kingom long ago and we definetly are not part of their history ad they are not part of ours.
3 - Zrinski and Frankopani and youcsaid so what, they were much more important than me and you and belive they were more educated and they knew what they were doing woth their own language. Imagine they call like Croatian and you tell them they are wrong.
And today its not same language, even law made clear. Because it has linguistic and many other reasons to be that way.
We are neighbours ,have own history, oen languge,own country, some histry had touching points.
But now and many year ago we were not same (Srb-Cro) and theres reason for it. Both have own char. as laguage, history and many more.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
No, I did not say no such a thing, maybe we just speak different languages. Me English, and you Croatian English :D
What "many others"? Because it has not reasons to be separate linguistically, hence the laws and political measures to artoficially keep it separate. If you broke down all the states and tried to reorganize them purely on linguistic base, result would be some sort of smaller Yugoslavia.
Yes, but language dont give a fuck about borders or states. Again, Dlmatia and Slavonija have different history too, so what?
You are repeating yourself. There are differences and similiarities. Same language is one obvious similiarity.
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
My friend at least I use English and 2 other lang. at this level, don't know about you.
You read something and its good. But your lack of knowledge is here. Its nothing bad. Just dont try to explain this to someone form ex Yu.
Your understanding of basic linguistic concept is here to be seen. Even history but you work on it.
You learnt some facts about Croatian and Serbian history but dont brag about it. Lack of understanding is big problem. You put them in same bag. And try to simplifie history and language. I'll give you example, lets say you watch one Marvel movie and one Dc movie and after that you mix it up. Thats what you doing.
I wish you luck maybe you'll understand it one day, but before that you have to read more.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
What two other languages my friend, Serbian and Croatian :D?
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
Who are you even to make your thoughts relevant ? Defintelly dont have ling. understanding. Notneven from here, dont use langugae.
Youre smarter than language institutions and other relevant people from field.
Nobody wont do such thing, only when we are joking.
Hope youll learn something from your assumption.
I am not rude enough to neglect someone laanguage and act smart about it.
Bye
Napusti moj komentar
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Lol, who I have to be? We are both just randos, so what? I dont have ling. understanding :D? Lol, rich coming from you. I do speak Serbocroatian quite fluently.
Again, its not about being smart. Im not smarter than linguists who do recognize this to be one language.
Thats irrelevant.
What, lol?
What are you takling about :D?
Vozdra
Napusti reddit i pročitaj koju knjigu.
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
Taj jezik je mozda jos postojao u prosloj drzavi, danas ne.
Lingisticki, to su dva jezika.
Svaki narod ima pravo na identitet, kulturu, jezik.
Glupo bi bilo da kazem da pricam srpski, kad ove od Nisa ne razumijem, tako da i oni kazu da govore Hrv, a zagorce nista ne kuze.
Jedno je razumit i barata jezikom, drugo ga je znat.
S obzirom da Srpski ucio nisam ne usudim se rec da ga znam dobro, razumijem ga. S obzirom da je slican.
Jezici imaju svoju povijest i ispreplitali su se, danas su jezici za sebe. I to je definirano zakonom, te priznato od svih relevantnih institucija.
Ako si tumac za hrvatski jezik, sigurno nisi ovlasten za prijevod srpskog. Jer ima svoje znacajke i razlicitosti.
Ove fore nemoj prodavat npr. srbinucda prica hrvatski. Nesto slicno su nama pokusali nametnut, pa smo imali rat. A srpsko hrvatski pricaju jugonostalgicari ili eto ljudi iz tog vremena koji drze do tog. A danas kao sluzbeni jezik to ne postoji.
Tako da slobodno i ti procitaj ponesto, ali ne neke mitove, vec nesto konkretno.
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
I mani me se s svojim zamislima.
Aj bok.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Niko te ne tjera da nastavljaš.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Niko te ne tjera da nastavljaš. Bok i cao.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Jezik postoji bez obzira na države. Nisu ljudi počeli odjednom pričati drugi jezik devedesetih.
Nisu.
Naravno. Samo se eto dogodi, da neki narodi pričaju istim jezikom. To ne znači, da to ne može biti njihov jezik. Samo narodi sa mali samopouzdanjem i nesigurnim identitetom misle da im je potrebno eksluzivno sredstvo za komunikaciju.
Glupost. Zagorce ne razumiju u Dubrovnku ništa više nego ovi u Nišu. Zapravo, hrvatski govornik iz Vukovara ce bolje razumjeti srpskog govornika iz Šida nego Bodula sa Hvara.
U ovom slučaju vecina ljudi zna sve odjednom.
Znaš ga, ne brini.
Zakon ne može da odluči/izmjeni objektivnu realnost. Isto kao ni jedna institucija.
Ima, ali to ne znači da je drugi jezik. Tumači za Portugalski i Brazilski Portugalski bi takodje morale biti dvije različite osobe. Ali sličnosti su jače nego razlike.
Pa smo imali rat :D O bože, pa jel zbog toga bio rat? Ja ne govorim, da Srbi pričaju Hrvatski, ili obratno. Svi pričaju jedan jezik, ma kako se on zvao.
Pa evo, šta konkretno? Nema tu mjesta za mitove, neupitno se radi o jednom jeziku umjetno podjeljenom političkim odlukama.
oduzmi@reddit
Austria doesn't have a national language at all. Croatia does. It's called Croatian.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Of course they do, are they barking at each other? Just because its called German, it does not mean that is not their national language. Multiple nations can have the same language.
It does not matter how you name it. Its called Croatian in Croatia, its called Serbian in Serbia etc. But its the same language.
oduzmi@reddit
Austrians won't get offended if you say they speak German, it's not a political issue for them. In our region, the situation is far more sensitive. And yes, while Croatian and Serbian are very linguistically similar, there will never be a universally accepted umbrella term for our languages, and especially not in 10-20 years when (or if) Montenegro joins the EU.
dimitriye98@reddit
To be fair, aside from being sensitive, the situation is a lot more complicated than “they’re the same language” or “they’re different languages.” It’s one of the last examples of a dialect continuum in Europe where language varies smoothly geographically without any sharp transitions where you can draw a line. Bulgarian, Macedonian, and Slovenian are part of that same continuum, their standard varieties just happen to be codified based on dialects which are more different than the rest of us.
Western Europe would have the same issue actually, they just committed their ethnic cleansing in the 1700s and 1800s when this was considered acceptable and thus were more successful at it. “Provençal” in France and “Catalan” in Spain are merely the remnants of a Western Europe which used to look a lot more like the Balkans, where every little village had its own dialect, and things simply got gradually less mutually intelligible as you got further away from where you started.
The fact that Croats, Serbs, and Montenegrins from large cities which speak more formal standardized dialects can understand each other doesn't mean I could understand the speech in a small village in rural Croatia, or that you could understand the speech in a small village in Serbia.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
l
oduzmi@reddit
Austrians won't get offended if you say they speak German, it's not a political issue for them. In our region, the situation is far more sensitive. And yes, while Croatian and Serbian are very linguistically similar, there will never be a universally accepted umbrella term for our languages, and especially not in 10-20 years when (or if) Montenegro joins the EU.
Fear_mor@reddit
I mean they probably wouldn’t force srpsko-hrvatski or hrvatsko-srpski back onto people but what would probably happen is that Croatia and the other Ex-Yu countries would make some declaration of some 1 language 4 differently named standards. It’d be a completely bureaucratic thing that wouldn’t really change anything in practice for Croats or any of the others but it would probably result in some generalised non-regional version of the 4 “languages” being established so the EU doesn’t have to waste money
pavol100@reddit
Croatia would never agree to that, and because Croatian is officiall language to our similar languages there's no need to add others, they can write in Croatian !!
Fear_mor@reddit
A kad bi obratno bilo jel bi ti piso na srpskom?
pavol100@reddit
Hvala Bogu pa nije, i ne bi..
Fear_mor@reddit
Bar si iskren u licemjerju lmao, al gleaj, ako ti ne bi na srpskom sto bi ovi na hrvatskom kontas. Ako mislis da to mos ocekivat ladno si smotan i nema daljnje rasprave o tom, ili je tako za sve ili nikako za nikog
pavol100@reddit
A vidi ja bi čak i mogao, meni ekavica nije strana pogotovo šokačka, mi znamo više njihove riječi nego obrnuto. Mogu svi staviti svoje jezike ako uđu u Uniju, ali da nekom podilazilo i stavljamo neki BCS nema šanse. Zna se tko je imao prvu gramatiku, pravopis, prvi roman..
7elevenses@reddit
Ijekavica je i u srpskom standardu.
7elevenses@reddit
It's not about what it's called. Nobody cares about the name.
myFullNameWasTaken@reddit
Well you're welcome to leave :)
Hologriz@reddit
Yeah probably, although it seems incredibly wasteful to have a complete separate translation service. (why not just slap another name to Croatian translarions.) But I guess some bro from Cetinje will get a nice phat EU gig.
Exciting_Walk2319@reddit
Croatian is such a lovely language based on east herzegovinian dialect.
Zandroe_@reddit
It's insane you're being downvoted for this lol, državotvorni don't even know anything about their own language.
Omnigreen@reddit
Better Call Saul
bubimir13@reddit
Well, the thing is much more straightforward and simpler then you might think. For official legal documents, the DGT is EC's service that employ language professionals who do the translation from various languages (working languages of the Commission are English, French and German so these are usually translated from) to mother tongue within the rules of the service and in accordance to the priorities and complexity of the tasks. DG SCIC is doing the interpretation part (technical briefings, press briefings, meetings or other events), so these are basically two different things and services.
In case of Montenegrin accession to the EU, EC, EP and other EU bodies would employ some number of language professionals from Montenegro for translation and interpretation, regardless of the fact that Montenegrin is close to Croatian, as Montenegrin would become then one of EU's official languages.
But have in mind that, since Croatia joined, not all language professionals employed by the EU bodies to translate or interpret are of Croatian origin or ethical background, I have personally met a great number people from Serbia and from Bosnia in Luxembourg (hq of language services) and Brussels who were employed on basis of knowledge of Croatian but were speaking very clean "ekavica" or used non-standard words like "obezbijediti, faktično or saobraćaj". And actually nobody is making that as an issue, as long as legal documents are in accordance to language standards (they do run under multiple checks before publishing in eulex).
ayayayamaria@reddit
flashbacks to some Cypriots insisting they speak Cypriot
Do Montenegrins, Serbs, Croats and Bosnians write that they speak 4 languages in their resumes?
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
No, that would be idiotic... Serbo-Croatian would be correct.
guIIy@reddit
No it wouldn’t. It’s Bosno-montenegrin.
Hologriz@reddit
No lol
Arh1sekta@reddit
why not though, its true we speak 4 languages, in the future we might speak 10 different languages, and that's great for your resume. the only one i dont speak very fluently is slovenian
Hologriz@reddit
Because either someone reading your CV doesnt know, in which case they wont care that you speak any of the four, or someone reading it does know, in which case they would think you are a charlatan for putting them seprately/puffing up your CV. There is no value added ib listing them seprately.
Finxjar@reddit
But noone is bold enough to put Slovenian in CV
Hologriz@reddit
Slovenian is actually legit different tho, same as Macedonian. Its actually important if you are seeking work in Slovenia, which "southerners" i.e. rest of ex Yugoslavia might.
But to the outside world, correct, faily irrelevant like the B/C/M/S or BCMS...
FixingOpinions@reddit
Is Macedonian really all that different? Maybe I consumed too much serbian content in the past but I can understand someone speaking, read and additionally speak to some degree, however I can not write
CypriotGreek@reddit
Yeah tell me about it.
Thankfully, most of the Cypriots who claim they speak this “unique” and “distinctive” never before heard of language are all concentrated on Reddit. (You know who you are). No real or sane person claims they speak “Cypriot”, at best you’ll heard we speak “Cypriot Greek” or “kypriaka” in the dialect sense (like Cretan)
slavasssr@reddit
Ήβραμεν τον ΕΛΑΜίτη
CypriotGreek@reddit
Δεν σώζεται η κατάσταση…
dimitriye98@reddit
Living in America where the people reading the resume don’t know what those languages are, yes, of course.
slavasssr@reddit
Εμίληεν τζιαι ο καλαμαράς. Εν εσού που έννα μας μάθεις, εμάς τους πελλούς τους χωρκάτες, ίντα γλώσσα που μιλούμεν; Ασσιχτίρ που δαμέ. Τζιαι πκιάε τζιαι την ΕΛΔΥΚ σαν φέφκεις, τζιαι πε τζιαι τους Τούρκους, παρέες σας στο ΝΑΤΟ, να πκιάουν τζιαι τζιείνοι να ασσιχτιριστούν στ'ανάθθεμα. Τζιαι αν μπορείς τζιαι τους Εγγλέζους. Εβαρεθήκαμεν σας ούλλους. Αήστε μας ήσυχους.
Para-Limni@reddit
Ιντα τσιόφτες γράφεις ρε; Οξά εννα μας πείς τωρά οτι ενεν Ελληνικά που μιλούμε; Έβρε μες το λεξικό την λέξη διάλεκτος τζαι θκιάβαστην. Τζαι παρέτα να μας ρεζιλεύκεις...
ichbinverruckt@reddit
Yes, I know two persons that put that in their CV. Ridiculous. And now is there a Montenegro language? Jesus!
shadowdance55@reddit
When I'm asked how many languages I speak, my answer is "It depends, do you mean linguistically, or politically?"
mihajlomi@reddit
No, because speaking with a croatian as a serb you will understand the majority of things said but key words will be different for example "year" , seasons as well. So it could cause a big missunderstanding.
East-Spray249@reddit
Sometimes
arisaurusrex@reddit
The diaspora kind does it and always fools westoids who don‘t know shit.
Neckbeard_Sama@reddit
bro, lmao
I know a guy who said he speaks 6 languages unironically in an interview:
Hungarian - English - Croatian - Serbian - Bosnian - Montenegrin
The dude has a Croat father so he grew up speaking hu/cro.
He also did all the language exam certs for them so he can milk his employer (Hungarian police) for the bonuses.
riquelm@reddit
Ok, it is indeed a problem. Sometimes I write Serbo-Croatian, sometimes Croatian, sometimes Serbian, sometimes Montenegrin...
Alex_1729@reddit
What would be the point? It's like saying you speak American English and Australian English.
44-47-25_N_20-28-5-E@reddit
I have a friend that works in Luxembourg, she got her resume done there and they put that she speaks 7 languages (she speaks 4 definitely) and she just went on with it since her teacher who is Bosnian showed her 🤫 when she wanted to complain and that's it now. 😁
Burekuzivalac@reddit
I absolutely would when applying abroad.
c0ntrolla@reddit
Unironically saw this way too often from diaspora applicants, when I was working in HR in Germany. Most assume that people don’t know/notice that that‘s the same language and to be fair, most don’t know 🤣
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
At home, NO. If you are appling for a foreign job, YES.
In Greece, no less, I had to appeal and explain that I am qualified to work with material in Croatian. Intially, I was rejected because they needed a native level speaker.
Brus83@reddit
Only when joking.
requiem_mn@reddit
Not unless we joke.
oduzmi@reddit
This is such a non-issue.
Also, they probably won't join anyway.
Stunning_Tradition31@reddit
why wouldn’t they join?
Imaginary-Librarian7@reddit
They support ruSSia
AllMightAb@reddit
Nah. Montenegro generally is pro-West. Best indication is how they treat the Albanian minority. There are still problems with people in local administration, but Montenegro has done a good job inciuding Albanian parties in their government and respecting minority rights. I'd argue they respect Albanian minority rights more than North Macedonia.
Honestly seeing them join in the nexy 2 years is a real possibility.
Kermit_Jagger_911@reddit
Albanians are actually a minority in MN meanwhile in Macedonia they're almost half the population. Dynamic is totally different so they shouldn't really be compared.
AllMightAb@reddit
I mean they should be compared. Montenegro does a better job of treating a 5% minority than Macedonia which has a 30% Albanian population. Thats on Macedonia being shitty.
Kermit_Jagger_911@reddit
Are you dense? It's not the same dealing with a 5% minority as it is dealing with a 30%. And not to mention, Albanians are way more than 30% in Macedonia. 10 to 20 years and it will probably be an Albanian majority country.
AndreiVid@reddit
So, why not treat them good? If in 20 years they are gonna be majority - how do you think they are gonna treat previous majority that were oppressing them?
Kermit_Jagger_911@reddit
Sorry man I sometimes forget that I'm on Reddit and people are a little bit braindead here.
AndreiVid@reddit
Yeah, that’s why you like it here. It’s the only place you can feel smart
Kermit_Jagger_911@reddit
Whoa that was harsh bro take it easy
AndreiVid@reddit
You call people braindead and I am the harsh one? :)
Filipthehandsome@reddit
In 20 years they won’t be majority.
Filipthehandsome@reddit
Nope, literally they are around 24%, the other 6% live abroad and that is due to the mental gymnastics that had to be done to satisfy the Albanian political parties. So no, they are about 26% less then half of the population.
Kermit_Jagger_911@reddit
Doubt
AllMightAb@reddit
So the Macedonians are justified in treating them worse?
Kermit_Jagger_911@reddit
You sound dumb as hell and trying to pick a fight for the sake of it.
AllMightAb@reddit
Iam trying to understand what you are getting at.
Filipthehandsome@reddit
Can you explain how does Macedonia treat the Albanian minority worse? By having a vice president in the Government and having a president of the assembly, literally among the strongest political offices one can hold
EarthObvious7093@reddit
Huge W
Putrid-Try-9872@reddit
Glatzial@reddit
Montenegro has a very big problem - the one sided use of the Euro. This is something that has to be addressed - some say that for them to join the EU, they have to fulfill the Eurozone requirements simultaneously.
Vasile187@reddit
Out of all the candidates they have the best standing right now. They will most likely be the next Eau member.
CharacterSherbet7722@reddit
What do you mean? They've been speedrunning their chapters
oduzmi@reddit
Romania & Bulgaria had met all the necessary criteria for joining the Schengen, yet they were repeatedly sabotaged by the EU members for years until they let them in. And they're in the EU themselves.
The EU simply doesn't want to expand anymore IMO. The momentum is gone.
cydron47@reddit
Good riddance, saving Serbia from neoliberal BS
Bilbolbu@reddit
Speedrunning opening chapters or closing them?
CharacterSherbet7722@reddit
Pretty much both
MrDDD11@reddit
Actually they will need to transle from Montenegrin and Serbian since most Montenegrins say they speak Serbian. So 2 more languages that are identical but different cus politics.
Suitable-Decision-26@reddit
The amount spent will be so small compared to the GDP of the EU or even Montenegro, nobody will bat an eye.
Many-Rooster-7905@reddit
Alright, if EU wants to spend millions of me I am literate in 3 scripts and speak 5 languages, they can send me money, ill be over in a day
Dokaz
Доказ
ⰴⱁⰽⰰⰸ
Zrakoplovvliegtuig@reddit
Being fluent in glagolitic is a cool niche tho. Definitely not standard.
Kreol1q1q@reddit
It’s the “very useless” kind of niche though.
Zrakoplovvliegtuig@reddit
Very true, the only real use case I can see is doing genealogical research using church documents in some areas.
Kreol1q1q@reddit
Handwritten or god forbid cursive glagolitic is an evil all its own.
Zrakoplovvliegtuig@reddit
I would rather leave such horrors to the expert commenter above...
shadowdance55@reddit
Aren't you proud that we have our own fantasy script? 😉
MartinBP@reddit
"We". Glagolitic was used from Bulgaria to Moravia, it just lasted the longest in Croatia.
Many-Rooster-7905@reddit
Older documents like Bašćanska ploča are really hard to read for me to, bcs language evolved sdo much and it was written during time script took transition, but its not impossible
Kreol1q1q@reddit
Absolutely.
Hologriz@reddit
Not if you like the Witcher tho. Its beautiful.
unicornsausage@reddit
ⰾ
Hologriz@reddit
I fully support EU bringing back glagollitic, no irony.
Tsarbomb@reddit
Mans here just casually dropped some Glagolitic. I'm humbled. Have not seen that since university.
Many-Rooster-7905@reddit
ⰻⱅⱄ ⱁⰽ, ⱀⱁ ⰱⰻⰳ ⰴⰵⰰⰾ
East-Spray249@reddit
Add arabic too.
Many-Rooster-7905@reddit
. kO
Hot-Independence-212@reddit
Well, if you can see some of the serbian movie on croatian national tv, you will see translation, absurd.
magare808@reddit
If Montenegro joins the EU and Montenegrin is at that point still the official language in Montenegro, then it will be added to the official languages of the EU, just like when any other country joined. Dedicated resources for formal translations will be expected, as with any other official language of the EU.
bender__futurama@reddit
The better question is for what will Croatia block Montenegro?
Will they go Bulgaria route and claim that Montenegrins speak Croatian?
They have a bigger claim to that, then Bulgaria that Macedonian is Bulgarian.
Croatian and Montenegrin are standardized on the same dialect, Stokavski. While Bulgarian and Macedonian are standardized on different dialects, and Bulgaria still claims that language.
Rudolfius@reddit
Bulgaria is not blocking Macedonia from joining though.
Macedonian language being Bulgarian has also never been an official government position.
asdf152@reddit
I am not sure whether this is the official position of Bulgaria, I doubt that it is. I have hard time to understand everything when I listen to Macedonian language.
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
Good question, I dont know how mich should be spend for translation and standardization.
I belive that Mont will have their people that will help to tramslate it.
Dear friends one thing is to 'understand' other to be able to translate, without mistakes.
So there are guys that study specific language and there is needed to understand context of language, history and culture.
Its not all black and white, many topics seems like that, but when you study them, its more complicated.
I saw many comments, and yes there are Croatian, Serbian language ect.
If you're not from here you won't understant it, because of lack of information. And its not important I dont care if you understand. You can make comparison with other lang. but it does not make sense because you have to understand many other topics history ect.
Montenegrian language will be another offical language and thats great.
Zash1@reddit
Let's just assume all of these countries speak Jugoslavian. Shall we? This won't create any problems, right?
/s
agmilky@reddit
https://www.gov.me/en/article/montenegrin-version-of-the-eu-acquis
Well the Montenegro is already translating EU legislation (which is available in Croatian) into Montenegrin.
So one would assume that if Montenegro joins everything will continue being translated to Montenegrin and at least formally there will be Croatian-Montenegrin interpreters.
asdf152@reddit
How close are Croatian and Montenegrin languages?
Kreol1q1q@reddit
Closer than some regional dialects in Italian or English. Tbh, some Croats would be more likely to understand Serbian or Montenegrin than a heavily accented northern Croatian dialect.
Though in the past the “languages” were somewhat more different, and are now once again diverging. Give it a century or two and they might actually merit being called different languages.
Fear_mor@reddit
Basically identical, it’s a whole political thing
Sevatar666@reddit
I remember speaking with a translator in Varaždin once, he had to translate some Serbian documents into Croatian for court. The documents were not written in Cyrillic, just Serbian spelling rather than Croatian. I think he said in the end he might have changed half a dozen words over two pages. Seems pretty petty really.
On6oGablo6ian@reddit
It sounds like he half-arsed it.
Excellent_Coconut_81@reddit
Dumping tons of money on some random nonsense is basically one of core values of EU...
To be honest, the negative consequences of that tons of maculature that EU produces are worth much more that cost of translations.
Technically, it will look like every other translation. Even if some of those languages are more similar than the dialects of other language (thinking of Bairisch that most Germans struggle to understand).
Necessary_Doubt_9058@reddit
Those are indeed the same languages, I agree, but they are politically recognized as separate languages and, as a result, when Montenegro joins, Montenegrin will become one more official language of the EU. Additionally, there are still noticeable differences between those languages, especially in high-level texts.
There is no other option, except perhaps Montenegro being indefinitely blocked by the Netherlands due to this, because:
a) Montenegro's national language is Montenegrin and they won't suddenly call it Croatian
b) Croatia wouldn't agree to a common Croatian-Montenegrin language. To give you an example, a Slovenian MEP gave a speech in Serbian, but Croatian interpreters did not translate it despite understanding every word, so no one in the parliament understood what he said.
roderik35@reddit
Maybe shooting some archduke would help...
Bardosaurus@reddit
Exciting_Walk2319@reddit
It will be done by ChatGpt
Spervox@reddit
They could switch to Serbian as official until EU membership
Ribbon7@reddit
They just need to change a bit already used and translated Croatian, so it shouldn't be much hassle to do it!
Legal_Mastodon_5683@reddit
It will have it's own translations for political reasons and national pride but it won't cost millions precisely because the adjustments will be easy from Croatian.
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
Why it takes so long to take this small nation into Union ? They don't have a million population, I guess other nations should never ever try since it will take ages 🤣
CharacterSherbet7722@reddit
Same issues as the rest of the balkans
Elect a dictator who states he will join the EU, dictator barely makes any strides to join (if any at all) as it would fuck with the regime they want to make, and you don't move
However Montenegro has literally been speedrunning that since the last administration, it's not like they don't have any problems (nepotism is still rife, there's also the Cetinje issues) but not to the point where it'll decided whether they do a chapter, and end up joining, or not
vbd71@reddit
What are these Cetinje issues, if it isn't a secret?
CharacterSherbet7722@reddit
12 deaths during a shooting in jan 1st, I believe the government's reaction to it wasn't adequate at all which sparked protests, literal kids died in that shooting too
Their requests are for the minister (and subminister? or however the fuck that translates) of defense and security to resign, and to demilitarize the society (e.g taking away guns)
I think it was Kamo Sjutra that mainly took part in organizing the protests as well as students, though I'm not sure where they're at right now
2neuroni@reddit
I think the EU is a bit afraid to accept any new countries which it considers unstable(I don't know if that's the case for Montenegro)
And this small nation which has like 616k population would also have the right to veto.
DyedEye@reddit
I would imagine they will have to these kinds of things are non-negotiable regardless if they seem redundant.