How do we convince others to join the libertarian cause?
Posted by Rumirei@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 31 comments
Hello All, I am a millennial (36) who over the past 10 years has come to be a Libertarian. I feel like society (at least economically if not in other areas as well) is like a frog getting boiled in a pot and few are aware. Those of us who are aware are deemed as alarmists or tin foil hat types and seemed to be dismissed to places like this in the overall zeitgeist.
So if I can sense a terrible economic collapse coming or at the very least hard economic times ahead, how do I convince the rest of the world to change? Winning 1% of the vote is cute but if we truly believe things are out of control, how do we break from this 2 party system to create meaningful change?
I know part of the answer is to start local, but that only works if everyone local is moving towards similar goals. I fear for my daughters and their future but I do not know what else can be done.
thellama11@reddit
I think there are two problems.
Academics, even in the arenas of finance and economics, don't think the ideas are very good or would promote liberty.
The other is that most laymen can recognize the value of public services and so they naturally support them to varying extents.
So honestly the current conservative framework is a good strategy. Demonize academics and scientists as frauds corrupted by government grant money. Present the government as wasteful and incompetent.
Honestly staying the course is a good strategy if you actually want to break government, but modern libertarianism is self correcting because when most people see what it's like not to have government they hate it.
ColdNorthern72@reddit
Myself, I like lots of Libertarian views myself but view as them as ideological rather than reality based. We will always have bad guys which is why we have to have cops. We will always have external enemies which is why we need a military. Our country is not alone on this planet thus international relations matter. I would love if people would mind their own business but they often have other ideas.
DigDog19@reddit
Copsare criminals and so is the government. They did not acquire their authority nor propertyt though legitimate means. Saying we need a criminal organization so that we can prevent different criminals from hurting us is slave talk. Its not an argument.
viper999999999@reddit
IMO the pace toward collapse is much faster than the pace of convincing and converting people through reason. It will take the shock of hard times to get a significant portion of people to rethink their worldview.
Your energy is best spent preparing yourself and those closest to you for those hard times. You can, and should, still try to teach and convince others, just don't expect that will be what saves you and your family.
Raimo00@reddit
True. Buy Bitcoin
1776-2001@reddit
People spend more time hating their jobs and their bosses than they do hating the government.
Libertarians need to increase their scolding of these people for being wrong.
And brand anyone who criticizes corporations as a Communist.
Zestyclose_Sir6262@reddit
Don’t be hateful, avoid the burden of defense and share literature from academics rather than regurgitating dogma.
think4yoursellf@reddit
My personal quote, "libertarians unite tomorrow" Good luck trying to convince others, I just remain outspoken on my libertarian views amongst my peers, friends, and family. Hopefully my perspective one day will rub off on them, but I'm not counting on it.
Annerc@reddit
I hope that Argentina can set an example. Kinda hard to deny the libertarian philosophy if we can point to an example where it worked.
TrickyDickCheney@reddit
Have an ideology that makes sense and isn’t just some weird rhetorical framework to argue with people.
ScientificBeastMode@reddit
Libertarianism is an ideology predicated on one’s core values aligning primarily with individual freedom.
The fact is, many people would rather we all work together for common goals and force that shared vision on the smaller minority of people who disagree. And that’s not necessarily “wrong” in an objective sense. It’s just a different set of values, where individual freedom is moderated for the sake of the greater good.
That also has its problems, as with any ideology. Most ideologies are too reductive to be realistic. That includes libertarianism and almost every other “ism” out there. The world is complex, and any solution based on simple principles will necessarily be inadequate.
ReddtitsACesspool@reddit
Got a tough toad.. Always has been.. Majority of people are side pickers and view many aspects of life as taking a side.. They have also programmed that into people for a long time so you have that working against you.
When 90% of people are engrossed in ___ vs ___ in all capacities and they teach their kids and etc. the same thing, its a tough hill to climb.. Not impossible though imo.
Unfortunately, I think people will need the hard times and what comes with it to realign their views and beliefs. This would I think increase the chance people start to looking for something else and are more willing to actually listen to libertarian politics.
We have a ton of people too dependent on the system too, which is a whole other issue.
CCWaterBug@reddit
Need
Better
Candidates
Tater_Sauce1@reddit
You don't. Very few will listen. Theyre stuck in their ways. They pick a side and stay no matter how wonkey it gets.
asicarii@reddit
You really don’t convince people to change. You can educate them on what libertarian is and ask questions about what they believe in. Usually there is fair common ground from either party without the batshit crazy stuff from both of the others
RiffRogue604@reddit
What you will learn is that most people don't want liberty. They want to be controlled. Be glad you are not like most people. If we could force a society to be more liberty minded it might work, but libertarians by their nature are not going to force others to live a certain way.
ImportantFlounder114@reddit
Voracious readers usually arrive there without compulsion. That was my path.
John_Galtt@reddit
Same. Was reading Time’s 100 list when one book started my path from bleeding heart liberal to LP.
wipetored@reddit
Ok folks, as a non-libertarian who just happens to agree with some libertarian ideas, I have a few thoughts that are intended to offend, but only to the extent that people consider their positions.
Before trying to convert people to the libertarian cause, maybe tone down the utopian fantasies about abolishing the state entirely and work on not sounding like every stereotype of a basement-dwelling crypto bro who thinks private fire departments are a good idea.
I like guns. I grew up hunting. But I dont worship 2A like it’s the third testament. Many others like me aren’t necessarily in agreement with folks packing silenced sub machine guns around, but we don’t care for gun control either. I’m not saying change your views, but maybe tone down the rhetoric because it really turns people off.
I like roads. I like cars. They bring me joy. I don’t buy into the idea that privatizing all of the roads will provide me with the freedom of movement that I currently enjoy with the current set up. All you western US state libertarians really hate the idea of DC trolls dictating how your wide open spaces are managed, but you know damn well most of y’all like to take a trip up the mountain whenever you want, without having to worry about private property/trespassing bullshit. The road is yours, the trees are yours, the trails are yours. I don’t want to give that up so I can say “at least the government doesn’t control it”
Libertarians might have some good ideas, but the common assessment from the lay person is that ya’ll are lunatics and one podcast away from Timothy Mcveighing another federal building.
tetractys_gnosys@reddit
Glad to hear it, friend. I wonder about this too, frequently. I think the answer really is to start local, or rather, with individuals and small groups. You've got a logic bug in your last paragraph I think. Long-winded ramble ahead, grain of salt, etc.
You say you know the answer is to start local, but that it's pointless unless everyone locally is already libertarian or moving in that direction, if I understood correctly.
That doesn't make sense. If everyone was already moving in that direction, there'd be no need to try and convince or enlighten others. And if it's pointless to try locally because they're not already moving in that direction, then it's flat out impossible and triply pointless to try and shift the masses because they're definitely not already moving in that direction. You can't want change but give up trying to affect it because the change you want isn't already here.
People can and do change, however slowly and minutely, but only as individuals. The "masses" isn't some thing you can just change with a few threads on a forum, a few well designed flyers, or short videos. Large groups of people take on their own sort of life and behave as an organism. What has it taken to change and direct the masses up to this point and currently? Trillion dollar propaganda infrastructure and corporate-political-social control of narrative. The fuzzy abstract feelings people have towards vague topics is, today I think, something that can only be really shifted in big bites by the Machine. If you want to fight the Machine on the same level at which it operates, you've got to have a comparably sized and armed Machine of your own. So that direction is a non-starter.
Individuals talk to other individuals. We're social animals. Even those of us who pride ourselves on being purely rational independent thinkers, unswayed by media and propaganda and peer pressure, we all take on shades and hues from the memes (in the technical sense) we share amongst each other. Find new people to talk to, organize a group locally. Being a good person, leading by example, and building or bolstering community (which we're all desperate for IRL, I think) can go a long way. When people are online, I think they tend to be stuck in echo chambers or walled gardens. IRL though, an interesting or fun looking gathering or event can entice someone who would outright ignore your Discord, subreddit, or YouTube channel if the algorithms even put it in front of them.
elganador0@reddit
Focus on bipartisan issues and common sense libertarian reform.
Focus on reducing the price of things. Housing reform, childcare reform, college tuition reform, occupational licensing reform, zoning reform, car regulations reform, etc.
Use plainspoken verbiage. Win moral arguments. If someone proposes nonsense economic policy, give them a sober reality.
DO NOT discuss more complex or divisive topics (minimum wage, abortion, decriminalizing hard drugs, culture wars, etc). Do NOT discuss libertarianism philosophically.
Sir_Naxter@reddit
Once they see the gun in the room no one can unsee it. I think educating people and focusing on the message that all laws are backed by force and that “government should” is an inherently violent statement.
Avtamatic@reddit
Have em watch mentis wave
jg0x00@reddit
Look for opportunities to point out the dumb things governments do, leave out the politician names and the parties as none of them are good.
PhilRubdiez@reddit
I’d say probably 80% percent would agree with one or two small L libertarian ideas. Get them thinking about those (guns, lower taxes, gay marriage, marihuana, being left alone, etc.) Slowly introduce them to more and more palatable ideas once they realize that the government might not have the best interests at heart. Don’t immediately jump to a Rothbardian free market for children.
Additionally, be the change you want to see in the world. I met Chase Oliver (boo hiss, I know) on the campaign trail. One thing he spoke about really stuck with me. As libertarians, we have to show that we can take the responsibility that we wish to remove from the government. We can’t whine about the parks department if we aren’t willing to volunteer for their upkeep.
Account115@reddit
Focus on spreading libertarian (small L) ideas and information sources. The more it is part of the dialogue, the more relevant it becomes.
Trypt2k@reddit
It's unlikely we'll see a terrible economic collapse, the economy is too entrenched. The issue is war and civil conflict if the economy shrinks as the lower classes will have no reason to participate at all. When the economy is chugging along, the plebs get to work at their daily jobs and make enough to live, once this goes away, we all revert to tribalism and survival, which means men seek out conflict in order to gain purpose in life.
Sassy_Sausages22@reddit
Keep voting Libertarian, Republicans will lose every election without us, and they will be forced to start to actually be conservative if they want to win
chechnyah0merdrive@reddit
We don’t. We’re here, if people want us, then they can ask for a pamphlet. 😂 but really, I have no idea.
Curious-pacemaker@reddit
I don’t know how we could convince people. The issue that we face is the perceived stability of a two party system. Honestly, even though republicans and democrats seem to be very different, they are still pretty close. Modern politics focuses on short term benefits, libertarian ideas are more long term. People seem to value short term pleasure more than long term prosperity. It is just like if peaceful aliens arrived on earth and wanted to help us. People would be afraid of the apparent change to their life which they would have to cope with. So I would say they would stick to all of the issues we face today instead of change to benefit society in the long run. It is almost utilitarian, people are unwilling to sacrifice a little short term happiness to benefit other humans. In US politics, people view God as what will save them from an inevitable collapse. Which did not go well for the Romans. The only real way to abolish the two party system for a multi-party system is to change the mindset of people. If the debt gets so bad that the two party system is distasteful then I could see it going in our favor. Of course as long as socialism does try to dominate. Overall, just telling people that libertarianism is better than their current system will not work though. Even if we start small. We need the current system to fail.
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