The non-test for an unknown NDA- When one manufacturer learns the wrong thing from another | igor´sLAB 9060XT "Review"
Posted by NGGKroze@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 52 comments
Igor's Lab about the launch procedure of the Radeon 9060 XT:
- his NDA was clearly for June 5
- Igor publishes at risk on June 4 (as he sees other reviews go online)
- AMD called Igor back: others are allowed to publish on June 4, but Igor only on June 5
KARMAAACS@reddit
Igor's Lab article? Wait a few days and the real truth will come out.
This guy constantly makes sensationalist allegations and then has to walk them back or change the topic to a new "finding". Need I remind you Igor literally had a "review" posted on his site by someone else that was an 'exclusive access' early test of a computer fan (like an actual fan to dissipate heat) that was NOWHERE NEAR the actual performance found by other reviewers.
igorsLAB@reddit
I think it's time I clear something up, because this situation is damaging both my work and that of my team. What the usual bubble is posting often has two sides to it. The freelancer who conducted that fan test on my behalf falsified the entire set of measurement logs and manipulated the test setup accordingly. He caused damages in the upper five-digit range and nearly drove Alphacool into financial ruin. He has since been rightfully convicted of fraud, document forgery, and ordered to pay damages.
At the time the article was published under my name, I was bedridden with COVID. I later had the entire incident reviewed publicly and transparently by an independent engineering expert—at my own expense, mind you. But frankly, I’m tired of seeing the work of over 20 years reduced to the actions of a convicted criminal, rather than being judged by the results we deliver here every single day.
Unlike the hyperventilating media bubble, the industry still trusts me—perhaps even more so because of how this incident was handled. And much of what we achieve here can be found reflected in improved products on the market. I just don’t write about it, because I’m bound by NDAs and confidentiality agreements. And I honor those.
You can’t form an opinion without hearing both sides. And once you do, then you’re free to speak your mind. Sorry, but I had to get this off my chest.
Felatio-DelToro@reddit
The way you handled that incident was way more damaging to IgorsLAB trustworthiness than the incident itself.
Mistakes happen, its how we react to them that matters.
GateAccomplished2514@reddit
I appreciate that you have handled the incident, and I do think people are hyperbolic about it / you in general, but there’s two problems I have with this response:
Why was the article published under your name if you didn’t do the work? It should have been published under the freelancers name or a pseudonym. How many other articles under your name are actually ghost written?
You claim to honor NDAs, when it is clear in this very article that you are willing to break NDAs you have even recently confirmed under certain conditions. Instead of reaching out to re-confirm the NDA date, you published because someone else did, even though your last contact with AMD said to wait another day.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Yeah, I don’t trust any reviews he does since the whole doubling down of the AlphaCool fans rather than admit that he was fed junk data. Even if his allegations were true, AMD would probably benefit by him publishing at a later date
RedditAdmnsSkDk@reddit
well?
RedditAdmnsSkDk@reddit
Where can I find that doubling down?
Dransel@reddit
100%. The man keeps tanking his credibility for clicks.
theoutsider95@reddit
Didn't HU and GN refused to follow Nvidia's marketing instructions for reviews ? if this is true then they are hypocrites when it comes to AMD asking the same thing of them.
bravetwig@reddit
I thought the Nvidia thing was along the lines of releasing drivers early to people who would agree to do a preview as per Nvidia instructions, and not releasing the drivers to people who wouldn't.
If the AMD review embargo / NDA is the 4th, and Igors is told that the review embargo is the 5th, then that date of the 5th is not-enforceable; the NDA no longer holds if other reviews are out. Either everyone's video needs to come down until the 5th, or the review embargo was actually the 4th. I'm not really seeing any evidence to suggest that reviewers like GN and HU are "reviewing as per AMDs instructions".
This sounds more like a fuck up on AMDs side in communication to Igor, or Igor has fucked up with the dates. But Igor seems to making accusations of others without evidence.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
Not so. If Igor agreed to the 5th, the 5th it is for Igor, even if other people are already publishing on the 4th.
bravetwig@reddit
It turns out we were missing some information, the 4th was nda for amd's version of the cards, 5th was nda for partner versions of the cards.
Two different versions of the NDA for two different versions of the cards.
The point of the NDAs is to ensure that reviews aren't released early, if it was the same type of card and other people are releasing on the 4th then it would be fine for Igor to also release on the 4th. The information is already public, there is no argument to be made for Igor to not be able to release a review under such a circumstance.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
The information already being public only matters if the NDA has a clause that says, "unless the information becomes public through some other means".
bravetwig@reddit
In this case that is the purpose of the NDA.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
Or, maybe the purpose is to stagger review publications in order to focus attention on more positive coverage, as is implicitly suggested by OP.
If you want an NDA to contain an "unless it becomes public knowledge through other means," clause, you need to negotiate that and sign under it.
I'm not gonna flat-out say that, "Bill's mom lets him have two wieners," has never convinced a judge to read implied conditions into a contract, but I wouldn't rely on it.
bravetwig@reddit
I know what Igor suggests, but that was clearly made without evidence, and Igor is just hurting his reputation further by making such accusations of others instead of checking his assumptions. We now have more information which suggests that Igor simply misunderstood that there was two release dates, one for AMD cards and one for partner cards.
Again it would not be enforceable because the entire point of the NDA is for reviewers to get cards ahead of release date to give them time to evaluate the cards ready for the release date, and the NDA stops them releasing information as soon as they get the cards. It's not a specific 'clause' in an NDA, it's the entire purpose of the NDA.
isthatfingfishjenga@reddit
Ha ha 👆
Ar0ndight@reddit
Dude it's Igor. Take any and everything he says with a truckload of salt.
conquer69@reddit
Not really. There is no reason to assume they would be aware of Igor getting blacklisted.
JapariParkRanger@reddit
I feel like AMD did a poor job then, given the results of these early reviews
ThermL@reddit
I'm more interested in that tidbit that seconds techpowerups review where after asking AIBs about the 350 MSRP, they just reply "lmao no"
kikimaru024@reddit
Current lowest prices on Geizhals:
Vb_33@reddit
I don't know what the MSRP is for Europe but in the US it's $350 for the 16gb and the cheapest you can find online is $370 right now.
Homerlncognito@reddit
I don't think those are permanent prices. ASUS Prime is 472€ here in Slovakia. Cheapest 16GB model is Sapphire Pulse for 433€.
Ze_ke_72@reddit
Can you order from Germany? They are usually cheaper.
Homerlncognito@reddit
I'm not interested in buying one, but that would be the best option while there's still some low priced stock. I was just pointing out that these initial prices in Germany seem too low to be permanent considering pricing in other EU countries. Prices normally match very well.
Hairy-Dare6686@reddit
Germany usually has the lowest pricing in the EU when it comes to PC hardware across the board and 369€ is actually the official MSRP here.
Considering the MSRP models aren't sold out and there don't seem to be any rebate stuff going on I doubt it will see the same price hike the 9070 did tbh.
Homerlncognito@reddit
The price difference is still high. Mindfactory has these red deals symbols next to 9060 XT. Cheapest I could find in Spain was 375€, which explicitly lists it as a deal from 429€
https://www.neobyte.es/sapphire-pulse-amd-radeon-rx-9060-xt-gaming-oc-16gb-gddr6-tarjeta-grafica-28823.html
Cheapest in French big stores are 450€.
kikimaru024@reddit
GTFO with that doomer mindset.
Your issue is with your local wholesaler, not AMD.
b_86@reddit
There's plenty of MSRP stock in Europe and an hour and half after release it hasn't ran out or hiked up so I'd say either that was bullshit or only for the US market.
hammerdown46@reddit
No, in the US market they are playing what we call "the game".
Release the card at $350, sell it for a day, then go to the $400+ you're gonna actually charge.
conquer69@reddit
If the 5060 ti sticks to it's msrp, they won't be able to do that. At least that's what my logic tells me. When the 9070 xt has the same price as the 5070 ti and still sells, I don't know what's going on there.
SunfireGaren@reddit
I think that's happening now. Best Buy has had the PNY 5060 Ti 16GB available at $430 for days now. 5070 at $550 as well. At this point, I feel like a customer almost needs to actively try to purchase higher than MSRP for anything lower on the Nvidia product stack than a 5070 Ti.
ThermL@reddit
Not entirely sure whats going on with 9070xt pricing in the states. It makes fuck-all sense to me. I actually bought a MSRP 5070ti today from BestBuy.
Cheapest 9070xt i've seen was a couple dozen delivered at $700 to my microcenter damn near 6 weeks ago. They sold out in 2 days. Outside of that they've been 850+ only.
So fuck em, I bought Nvidia. Again. And that'll keep happening over and over. I waited 3 months, i'm not waiting anymore. My last AMD card was the HD5850 and at this rate, that'll be the last AMD card I ever purchase because i'm not sure I have it in me to do another PC build after this one. I was entirely sold on the 9070xt this generation but they couldn't stock one in the states cheaper than the card that beats it, so 5070ti it is.
OftenSarcastic@reddit
So is he claiming that channels like GamersNexus have published an "AMD-led review" to get publish rights for the 4th?
DehydratedButTired@reddit
I think he's pretty clear here.
BookPlacementProblem@reddit
*Very* interesting.
wilkonk@reddit
if it's true, which I doubt because it'd get AMD a ton of bad press with everyone and they'd know it, and he's claiming they made it explicit
Xeya@reddit
He is claiming that AMD gave an advantage to other channels. It is unclear whether this was an explicit quid-pro-quo or a form of tip for favorable coverage in the past, but given AMD called Igor's review back it was certainly intentional on their part.
Whether the other channels were aware of a tiered NDA system remains to be seen.
Caramel-Makiatto@reddit
Wouldn't be surprised at all if they gave channels known to be favorable to AMD the earlier embargo. This way the first videos everyone sees would be reviews more likely to treat the card with kid's gloves. Then after the first wave of videos are out, why would you watch anybody else?
wilkonk@reddit
I would, because it'd get them a lot of terrible press if anyone found out, and he's claiming they made it explicit so it would obviously be found out.
bad1o8o@reddit
maybe they didn't sign the same (or any) NDA
BarKnight@reddit
This is why I prefer websites over YouTube channels
Life_Menu_4094@reddit
I mean, almost all the major websites also published their reviews yesterday? Whatever this is, it seems more, err, localized than web vs video.
AnimalShithouse@reddit
YouTube is trash and the monetization of things like YouTube can be directly attributed to reasons why the internet is worse now than it was 10 years ago.
Websites remain king for actually learning - but there's much fewer good websites now.. and they're mostly drowned out by SEO garbage.
shugthedug3@reddit
GN being exposed on this one.
braiam@reddit
What was Steve from GN handle on Reddit?
Chronia82@reddit
I think its: u/Lelldorianx
angry_RL_player@reddit
The more interesting tidbits:
This is also makes sense as to why some reviewers got the 9060 8gb early while others didn't. Sounds like media manipulation to me, but unfortunately consumer advocacy only applies to tech jesus and his apostles.
BlueSiriusStar@reddit
Glad Igor brought this to our attention, but how many people follow him compared to others. Also, this doesn't discount AMD from this kind of behaviour, though. But at least consumers benefit from the earlier release.
only_r3ad_the_titl3@reddit
On the other hand it allows amd to get favorable reviews if their pricing is not accurate.
mewenes@reddit
Wow the guy is such an attention whore it's disgusting.