Honda Civic Type R bows out: hot hatch legend pulled from UK and Europe | Autocar

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Trades46@reddit

Sounds like the beginning of the end for the European hot hatch segment...sadly.

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desf15@reddit

I think that Golf/Leon/Octavia are the only FWD hot hatches left on the EU market right now.

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frunklord420@reddit

The Mini Cooper S is still around but it seems to be auto only.

They have a few variants, but at this point they're lukewarm rather than hot.

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Jan-Pawel-II@reddit

Peaked in the ‘80s anyway. When hatches got over 1100kg is when things went downhill.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

So, more strict emission regulation forces European buyers to lose it, and CTR isn’t only one, there are many fun cars gone from Europe.

The rumor of GR Corolla coming Europe seems not going to be real.

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Emissions don't seem to bother the golf GTi and equivalents at Skoda/cupra, the M cars, S and RS cars or AMG ones. A better title would be "honda decides to not bother making the type R meet emissions since it won't make a lot of profit from selling a 60K hatch that has low demand"

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HnkRearden@reddit

Exactly. I considered the CTR before buying my current car but it doesn't offer an automatic. Considering the time I spend in traffic, manual was not an option for my daily. And a hot hatch should be a daily. If I wanted a second, manual, fun car, I would buy a roadster or a coupe.

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Critical-Positive858@reddit

> Considering the time I spend in traffic, manual was not an option for my daily.

WHY oh WHY do people think this? Please stop spreading this misinformation. Shifting gears in stop and go city traffic is not challenging or exhausting. It's just not lol

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makingthisfor1reason@reddit

Totally agree. And on an “enthusiast” forum

In Certain traffic manuals are easier to deal with as it mostly just clutch work and engine braking. And then yes there is painful traffic too but oh well everything has a pro and con-

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rugbyfiend@reddit

Yeah man I don’t mean to be rude but the CTR is not designed for you.

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Nightfuse@reddit

Why not? They might just not want a manual but would still enjoy all the other upgrades the Type R has.

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makingthisfor1reason@reddit

because it’s manual only

“Might not want a manual”

Pick one

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Critical-Positive858@reddit

read my mind. if you find shifting tedious, you should go get yourself a golf R lol

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makingthisfor1reason@reddit

But my traffic… and my back pains…

Why would someone consider a stick only car at all when they would never consider it because they drive in traffic like everyone else. So it wasn’t even really a consideration. Odd comment

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Limesmack91@reddit

I considered one until I went into the dealership 5 years ago asking about any potential deal to reduce the price and was told "sir, this is a limited production car, there's no wiggle room on the price". You see the same online with dealers trying to offload 4 year old CTR test models for new car prices. Meanwhile I can go into the VW dealership and walk out with a lightly used GTI of last year with a 30% discount or more.

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caterham09@reddit

When 3 and 4 cylinder cars are getting canned for emissions, you know the end is near.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

I think what is funnier is this gets 189 g/km as opposed e.g. the 45 g/km of the new PHEV M5. because the measure uses a weighted average where a significant portion of the test cycle is driven on pure electric power.

you want to tell me M5 owners are doing the majority of their driving on electric-only? I don't believe you

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caterham09@reddit

It's just a flaw with the testing/criteria, which is super common. These things have been exploitable for a long time.

Motorcycles now have wonky tunes because they need the engines to make less power/noise at specific rpm ranges. It's all very performative

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Elderbrute@reddit

Motorcycle stuff is all very nudge nudge wink wink.

You should ride like this, oh no you totally shouldn't tune the bike differently like in this exact specific way or anything like that.

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Larcya@reddit

Yup go look at motorcycle manuals and see what the manufacturer recommended shift points are.

It's all done for emissions and fuel economy.

Iirc Honda expected me to shift 4 gears from 0-35 MPH...

Honda I'm not fucking doing that. I'll shift 2 gears at most.

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caterham09@reddit

Yup, my Xsr900 manual says I need to shift to 6th at 37mph lmao. It's borderline abusive to the bike lugging it that bad.

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Larcya@reddit

Yup. Like even if it has zero wear and tear on the clutch, I'm not going thru 4 fucking gears every time I want to go anywhere but a parking lot.

Like I'm just not going to do that. I'll gladly pay more at the pump with worse gas mileage than have to go thru that.

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caterham09@reddit

Well that and it just isn't fun. Half the fun of a bike is getting to Rev the absolute shit out of it because they go up well above 10k. You're just not riding the bike correctly short shifting like that

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

yeah exactly. take the current fireblade motorbike for example - the american version is down 30hp on the european model - all of that taken from the top end by reducing throttle mapping (less than 50% for US).

more egregiously, the 213v-s which was their roadgoing motogp bike. The base euro bike is capped at 157hp with various intake & aero restrictions surrounding. The US bike is capped at 101hp with peak power at 8k. the japan spec has 70hp with a peak power at 6k

they aren't stupid. in europe you can get a sport kit that brings out the full power (212hp), coming at 13k rpm, completely different emissions system and valve train. they know absolutely no-one genuinely interested in riding this is keeping this stock and give you the blueprint on how to bring it up to the intended spec.

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driftking428@reddit

And the V2 was born!

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caterham09@reddit

Vtwin are some of the most common engine configurations on the planet, just not in cars.

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GeneralCommand4459@reddit

New Toyota RAV4 losing 35bhp from this also

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pursuer_of_simurg@reddit

Well, i20 is dead. ST line is dead. Renault RS line is dead. Now this.

We had good run everybody.

Hopefully Alpine A290 can prove itself as a good ev alternative.

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Code_XCIV@reddit

It seems that increasingly stringent emissions regs are killing off relatively low-cost ICE performance cars. I know the Civic Type R started at over £50k before being axed, but it is still a shame to see the hot hatch sector fading. Hopefully, electric equivalents fill up the gaps in the market quickly; the A290 is a good start, let's see what the Peugeot e208 GTI reveal next week brings.

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Ummgh23@reddit

Fuck these regulators. I'm not driving a glorified hairdryer lmao

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Particular_Flower111@reddit

I feel like the Model 3 was the beginning of the end for the “cheap” ICE-powered enthusiast car.

So much of what makes small, lightweight, and cheap enthusiast cars unique and fun is irrelevant with EVs. They don’t need to be small since they’re still going to be quite heavy regardless and a small footprint is detrimental to practicality. They don’t need small, lower powered motors to satisfy fuel economy standards (can easily give an EV more power than an Enzo). Manual gearboxes are irrelevant as well.

All you have left is suspension and steering feel, and modern EVs are getting much harder to differentiate based on those metrics.

People say constantly how much they want a small EV enthusiast car, but no one would actually buy one. If you compare an EV sports car that compromises on practicality for the sake of packaging, and still weighs over 4000 lbs, what are you losing by moving to a crossover that weighs 2-300 lbs more but can haul your family and get groceries?

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Code_XCIV@reddit

Fair point, but while the Model 3 did shift perceptions for everyday performance cars, I still think there’s a solid market for smaller, performance-oriented EVs. Beyond aesthetic appeal, their compact size gives them a functional advantage for anyone dealing with tight garages, narrow driveways, and dense city parking, especially in the UK and much of Europe, where older infrastructure was designed with compact vehicles in mind.

And while it is not a given, stepping up to a larger vehicle often comes with higher insurance costs. What's more, I wouldn't be surprised if future legislation comes into play to regulate or tax cars based on footprint.

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Bebabcsinya@reddit

Audi TT, Porsche 718, GR86, Supra are all dead, even though they are a different type of cars. Mazda MX5 only available with the 1.5 engine, Nissan 400z and the Blackwing Cadillacs werent even available to begin with. Its official, the manual transmission is on its last leg here in Europe

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AdventurousDress576@reddit

Alpine A290

I have more faith in the Ypsilon HF

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BannytheBoss@reddit

The way the EU is going, pretty soon, cars will only be for the wealthy and tourists.

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FeemBleem@reddit

They want to be the Netherlands so badly…

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ewaters46@reddit

Is that really so bad though?

Most people don’t enjoy driving that much and aren’t very good at it - they do it because there is no viable alternative. Creating these (Public transit, bike infrastructure) gets some of these people out of their car reducing congestion and unsafe driving.

No, this will not work for everyone or everywhere, but especially in dense cities, I think it makes a lot of sense. I mean let’s be honest, what car enthusiast enjoys driving in a large city that’s backed up and full of inattentive drivers? I sure don’t.

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StandupJetskier@reddit

My euro rental car has gone from some unobtainable manual diesel (Venza diesel manual, BMW 320i manual diesel, fun, to a 1.4 liter CVT mild hybrid.

My 5 hp minibike had a better powertrain.

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Juicyjackson@reddit

How many fun, manual cars are even left in europe, isnt the BRZ/GR86 also not for sale? Civic Type R gone, Focus gone...

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NaBUru38@reddit

The Hyundai N lineup

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Doublebow@reddit

I20n, i30n and Kona n are all dead. Only thr ioniq5n remains but it's over £60k ($80K).

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NaBUru38@reddit

Oh no

They seem to be a few in stock in Spain

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pursuer_of_simurg@reddit

İ20n ended production last year.

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Godvater@reddit

GR Yaris is still on sale.

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Doublebow@reddit

We still have the MX5, other than that nothing unless you are rich.

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wanakoworks@reddit

I believe the MX-5 with the 2.0L is no longer available but the 1.5L is apparently still alive.

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SilentFix1117@reddit

The 2.0 is available in the UK on the higher spec models but the tax changes in April make it ridiculously expensive to buy one.

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wanakoworks@reddit

Damn shame.

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No-Necessary7135@reddit (OP)

It's definitely going downhill really fast. I'm worried in the US that we're going to lose a lot of these smaller, fun cars not because of emissions but demand.

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Just1morecop@reddit

Yeah when the US/Canada becomes the only market you can sell a cheaper spicy car in, it further limits the difficult case of justifying building them in the first place.

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Sweet-Gushin-Gilfs@reddit

Luckily the US alone can sustain the sports car industry. Europe once again showing why it sucks. Can’t have no fun.

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Darktrooper007@reddit

Because fun is dangerous, and the Nanny State can't allow that. For the plebeians' own good, of course, and definitely not for the State's power trip.

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longgamma@reddit

I really don't feel bad about this given my experience at Honda dealerships in Canada. They will force a trade-in, finance and useless marked up ceramic coating packages. I was offered 11k CAD for a forced trade-in for my low mileage GTI.

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thecanadiandriver101@reddit

Got mine for MSRP

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longgamma@reddit

Nice bro. I know some people in Vancouver area bought their cars in their maritime provinces

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buzzzzzzerbin@reddit

what you’re describing and this emissions stuff is totally unrelated to

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longgamma@reddit

Sure but it's kind of immaterial to many enthusiasts because they can't even buy this car.

The folks with money to purchase this at inflated prices would go a step up and get a M2 or something better. The real target audience just can't work out the finances. I mean paying 50k usd plus for a civic is idiotic in many ways

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buzzzzzzerbin@reddit

that is a matter of opinion honestly. plenty of folks actually move from an f8x and g8x to either of the type Rs. an m2 isn’t as much of an “upgrade” as you think. this isn’t even factoring the CTRs hold their value way better

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longgamma@reddit

M2 isn't an upgrade over the Honda civic ? I don't want to discuss this any further lol.

I mean enjoy your type r if you are happy with it. 50k+ usd for a souped up civic isnt worth it for me.

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buzzzzzzerbin@reddit

no one is telling you to spend 50k on a civic. the fact of the matter is that there are plenty of people that are happy with a ctr over an m2. if people weren’t willing to pay 50k for it then it wouldn’t hold its value unlike an m2. there are certainly aspects of an m2 that are an upgrade namely power but it’s very real that some people don’t see it is as an upgrade. you should check out some m2 vs ctr videos and maybe you can be convinced that it’s really not an upgrade in every aspect

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longgamma@reddit

Cool. Gg.

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hoopercuber@reddit

my friend has a FBO f87 and i’ve driven it pre and post mods and id still pick my fk8. never mind the fact that our cars for the same year, his car has depreciated much more. upgrade really isn’t about a spec sheet. there are plenty of ways a CTR can be better than an M2 maybe just not to you

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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hoopercuber@reddit

this seems like whataboutism. It’s not like the EU is specifically targeting honda and it’s really not the only car that has gotten canned by this. dealerships are scummy to begin with and while honda limiting CTR production plays a role it really has nothing to do with emissions becoming stricter. the same thing is going to happen in japan with the FL5

not sure how this got flagged as rage bait

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Agree-With-Above@reddit

The Venn diagram between people that can afford such a vehicle, want such a vehicle, and actually buy these vehicles is ridiculously small. It was the sensible option.

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angrybluechair@reddit

This is tragic, actually awful. Type Rs were at least to me, the real working class fun car, something fundamentally important about them in working class car culture, especially in the UK despite their "chav" association. Yeah them being 50k probably didn't help but this is the nail in the coffin, the final moments of probably the most iconic hot hatch I can think of aside from the Lancer Evo.

Honestly this hurts, feels like I got into cars too late, all we'll be left with is shitty EV SUVs and that'll be it, no fun allowed boyo. On the bright side, removing the sex appeal from cars will absolutely massively boost my pay as a tech, since people will see it with no stars in their eyes and sure as shit won't grow up wanting to work on them so that's cool.

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AdditionalText1949@reddit

Wow, europe is lame as hell. They are the reason the GT Porsche cars are being neutered these days as well.

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Big_Flan_4492@reddit

I dont get this, everyone is saying strict emissions is why its getting axed but how are cars like the Golf R with the EA888 and the AMG A45 are allowed?

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Sierra_463@reddit

Because they sell more so it's easier to justify the costs of making them compliant.

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Code_XCIV@reddit

It is a bit complicated, but here's a very simplified version of how other manufacturers can get away with it:

They can sell more low- or zero-emission vehicles (like EVs) to bring down the average emissions of their overall fleet.
Manufacturers can form emissions pools with other companies (often by paying them) to include more zero-emission vehicles in their collective average.
If they don’t manage to meet the emissions target through those methods, they’re still allowed to sell higher-polluting cars, but they have to pay a fine for every gram of CO₂ per car that goes over the EU limit. Chances are, the fines incurred will be passed on to the consumer, resulting in a higher purchase price.

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Limesmack91@reddit

All these things can be implemented by Japanese companies as well though, they just prefer not to bother

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desf15@reddit

A45 is dying quite soon.

And the wider answer for your question is hidden in the way CO2 fines are counted. They take average of registered cars, see how much it exceeds limit, and then multiply it by number of registered cars and then multiply it by 95 EUR. So there are two ways around it:

a) You sell shitload of EVs or PHEVs which drag your average CO2 down, and then you can sell some gas guzzlers as well b) You sell these cars at prices high enough to cover additional CO2 fines (if Honda were selling only CTRs it would be like 8-9keur per unit this year).

Also, Honda didn't actully confirmed what's the cause, it's just Autocars speculations. In 2027 there is EURO7 norm coming, and another reasons might be that Honda engine isn't compliant and there is no point in making it compliant for a model that doesn't have that long time left anyway.

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