Bodies of husband and wife taken into Gaza by Hamas recovered after special operation by Israeli forces
Posted by DanDan1993@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 161 comments
okabe700@reddit
All this bloodshed for recovering two corpses, meanwhile more Palestinians and hostages are dying and Netenyahu still refuses to do a deal and leave, or even offer the Palestinians a meaningful alternative to repel against Hamas, just continuing slaughter and starvation and displacement as weapons for no purpose but to punish the Palestinians
bbrnh@reddit
Go for a protest in your own country, open the gaza border and safe innocent children!
Theodosian_Walls@reddit
Open borders for israel!
This_Is_Fine12@reddit
You do realize that the 2 hostages the Palestinians murdered were peace activists. They would evenly routinely bring Gazans to Israel to ensure they got appropriate medical treatment. When this is how the Palestinians treat the people who would want peace, why exactly would anyone else trust the Gazans.
LowRevolution6175@reddit
Why is this post being downvoted? Should Israeli families not deserve to bury their dead instead of having them kept prisoner in an unknown location by a terror group? Is the IDF trying to rescue hostages, alive or dead, inherently evil in your eyes?
I'm sure this comment will be downvoted with plenty of whataboutism about Palestinian victims.
Kahzootoh@reddit
It is being downvoted because it is being used to justify the continuation of a military operation that does far more harm to everyone involved than any good it could possibly achieve.
You want to destroy Hamas? Stop funding them and they’ll collapse in short order, and maybe start holding Israeli politicians who have supported them (such as Likud) criminally responsible for their well established support for terrorism?
You want to recover the Israelis held by Hamas? An enduring ceasefire will get back everyone who is still alive.
You want to protect Israel? Murdering Palestinians for the actions of a criminal organization that Israel bankrolled isn’t going to protect Israel. It just shows the world that Israelis are either stupid or depraved.
It’s nice that this family gets to bury their loved ones, but the manner in which they are recovered means that tens or hundreds of people will continue to be killed or victimized every day.
Unless your goal is the preservation of Benjamin Netanyahu’s hold on power, there is no reason to continue this misguided military operation.
Sevinki@reddit
Hamas could always submit their unconditional surrender and pave the way for a civilian arab lead interim government. Then Israel would have no more justification for further attacks and would be forced to end the war whether they like it or not.
WonderfulPackage5731@reddit
Do you know what happened the last time Hamas agreed to turn over the operation of Gaza to an interim government and hold new elections in a process approved by the UN, including US and UK?
Isreal strongly objected. When objections didn't work, Isreal launched a massive attack on Gaza, preventing the interim leadership from entering the territory and receiving the transfer of power.
Israel will not allow a new Arab government in Gaza. They will never allow a peaceful government that is recognized by the international community to govern Gaza. It would legitimize Palestinians' existence in the land, which is antithetical to Isreal's desires.
CobraPuts@reddit
I’m interested to learn more. When was this?
WonderfulPackage5731@reddit
https://chomsky.info/20140909/
So matters continued until April 2014, when an important event took place. The two major Palestinian groupings, Gaza-based Hamas and the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority in the West Bank signed a unity agreement. Hamas made major concessions. The unity government contained none of its members or allies. In substantial measure, as Nathan Thrall observes, Hamas turned over governance of Gaza to the PA. Several thousand PA security forces were sent there and the PA placed its guards at borders and crossings, with no reciprocal positions for Hamas in the West Bank security apparatus. Finally, the unity government accepted the three conditions that Washington and the European Union had long demanded: non-violence, adherence to past agreements, and the recognition of Israel.
Israel was infuriated. Its government declared at once that it would refuse to deal with the unity government and cancelled negotiations. Its fury mounted when the U.S., along with most of the world, signaled support for the unity government.
There are good reasons why Israel opposes the unification of Palestinians. One is that the Hamas-Fatah conflict has provided a useful pretext for refusing to engage in serious negotiations. How can one negotiate with a divided entity? More significantly, for more than 20 years, Israel has been committed to separating Gaza from the West Bank in violation of the Oslo Accords it signed in 1993, which declare Gaza and the West Bank to be an inseparable territorial unity.
One of Israel’s leading authorities on Hamas, Shlomi Eldar, reported almost at once that the killers very likely came from a dissident clan in Hebron that has long been a thorn in the side of the Hamas leadership. He added, “I’m sure they didn’t get any green light from the leadership of Hamas, they just thought it was the right time to act.”
The Israeli police have since been searching for and arresting members of the clan, still claiming, without evidence, that they are “Hamas terrorists.” On September 2nd, Haaretz reported that, after very intensive interrogations, the Israeli security services concluded the abduction of the teenagers “was carried out by an independent cell” with no known direct links to Hamas.
The 18-day rampage by the Israeli Defense Forces succeeded in undermining the feared unity government. According to Israeli military sources, its soldiers arrested 419 Palestinians, including 335 affiliated with Hamas, and killed six, while searching thousands of locations and confiscating $350,000. Israel also conducted dozens of attacks in Gaza, killing five Hamas members on July 7th.
Hamas finally reacted with its first rockets in 18 months, Israeli officials reported, providing Israel with the pretext to launch Operation Protective Edge on July 8th. The 50-day assault proved the most extreme exercise in mowing the lawn — so far.
CobraPuts@reddit
Thanks
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
This relies on the victims of Israel's devastation of Gaza not becoming radicalised themselves and carrying out more attacks against Israel. We can hope you're right, but you're talking a population of millions where just about everyone will have had close family and friends killed or severely injured by the IDF. And you aren't going to get the same effect from e.g. post-WW2 Japan and Germany where the devastation and suffering is viewed as a response to their own collective national effort to attack others, because unlike in those examples, the vast majority of Palestinians had no involvement in the war. How you get from there to peaceful acceptance without some massive gesture of reconciliation by Israel is beyond me, and there is no appetite for anything like that in Israel.
CobraPuts@reddit
It would require heavy investment in the economy and education but it’s possible. Most people just want a better life for themselves and their families, and don’t want to throw that away if they can make it a reality.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I think that's true, but it doesn't take many radicals to trigger a devastating backlash.
duckwwords@reddit
Didn't the ceasefire agreement accepted by israel exclude that exact point from the deal hamas accepted recently?
CobraPuts@reddit
This is the US / Israel proposal
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/full-text-of-witkoffs-proposal-for-gaza-ceasefire-and-hostage-release-deal/
Kahzootoh@reddit
You really believe that not having a justification would force the Israelis to stop the war? I don’t think you’ve been paying attention to the events of the last year.
For the record, Hamas has already agreed to give up power to a government under an Egyptian plan for reconstruction- they even agreed to place their weapons in stockpiles under the control of international peacekeepers.
They have done this to demonstrate that Israel is not serious about negotiating- every time Hamas agrees to something, the Israelis create new demands and continue the killing.
The war is continuing because Netanyahu needs to maintain his hold on power and killing Palestinians keeps the Israeli public’s attention focused elsewhere and delays new elections- murdering Palestinians is apparently their favorite form of entertainment.
CobraPuts@reddit
For the record, Hamas and Israel have put forward credible ceasefire proposals. There is more negotiation needed, but both sides have proposals that are pretty close to one another already.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
We should listen to this guy. His country knows a lot about unconditional surrender.
KokoshMaster@reddit
How has that played out in the West Bank?
OutblastEUW@reddit
Not that I am necessarily pro war but where exactly is the guarantee that if Israel lays down their weapons the hostages will be returned ?
Or that if Israel stops funding Hamas they will fall in short order?
"Unless your goal is the preservation of Benjamin Netanyahu’s hold on power, there is no reason to continue this misguided military operation."
Netanyahu is the one keeping the war ongoing in order to extend his political career.
funditinthewild@reddit
The biggest sticking point in a lot of the ceasefire proposals is that Hamas wants a permanent end to the war in exchange for the hostages. I understand the morality of this is not great, but it is the sticking point. Israel refuses to commit to a permanent end or a long truce.
I don't think any ceasefire plan realistically asks Israel to disarm completely, even Hamas of all groups is not that idealistic. Israel can easily claim a violation of a hypothetical plan if the hostages are not returned after Hamas agrees to a ceasefire. And past ceasefire agreements have shown that Hamas has honored the return of the hostages.
armchair_hunter@reddit
Considering the debacle with the Bibas family and the hostage who said he was looking forward to seeing his family (When everyone else knew his family was dead), I'd say honored is the wrong word.
esperind@reddit
i mean if they were already dead, Hamas or regular palestinians could have returned them already.
Hamas is using them just as much as you say Israel is. Except Hamas is the one that took them in the first place so who is really the one using who?
LineOfInquiry@reddit
Well yeah, that was the entire point. Hamas took hostages in order to use them as bargaining chips to free Gaza from the blockade and have some amount of power over Israel, as well as to bait Israel into over-reacting as they always do.
It’s the same reason Israel arbitrarily arrests thousands of Palestinians with little to no proof of wrongdoing: it’s just hostage taking with a legal pretext, which they can then trade for concessions out of Hamas.
There is a key difference between the 2 though that we shouldn’t forget. Israel, as the party that began this conflict at least 60 years ago (if not 80+) and the party that continuously ups the brutality and barbarism, is ultimately the only ones with the power to de-escalate the situation. Hamas only exists, and especially only exists in the way it does today because it had become more and more radicalized by several violent actions taken by the Israeli government or Zionist ultranationalists. It becomes more brutal as a response to Israel. (We saw this same thing happen in ww2 with the Nazis being horrible and the USSR responding with horrible actions in kind).
If Hamas disappeared tomorrow the violence would not end, nor would things get better for Palestinians. If the Israeli government disappeared tomorrow the violence will end, and things would get better for all: Jews and Palestinians. I don’t think that’s something we should forget. Regardless though, it’s awful when any civilian is needlessly murdered in a war crime, and I’m glad the family at least was able to get the bodies of their loved ones.
Borscht_can@reddit
Your bias is showing. Hamas and Hezbollah use hostage taking as means of political propaganda and trading for dramatically more prisoners, most importantly for local "heroes", i.e. terrorists with blood on their hands.
Whilst I'm not denying the current Israeli government is anything by innocent, solely blaming Israelis on escalation is tunnel visioning and bias. Heck, you can rewrite half your post by simply changing "Palestinian" and "Israeli" places and it'll still hold true.
funditinthewild@reddit
I agree the person you're replying to is biased, but that aside, the trade for more prisoners is because Israel just factually holds more prisoners (who were not given a fair trial, I should add) than Hamas holds hostages. Israel also has more power to imprison Palestinians than Hamas has to take hostages. So I don't really see how it's unfair for Hamas to demand more for each hostage; they have much less leverage so they will use it proportionally.
And while I agree there are militants in many of those prisoners, a ton of them are not, and Israel never gave those any fair trial.
holdMyBeerBoy@reddit
How can’t you see that what you just said is completely insane?
Hamas took by force hostages, while killing plenty of others while doing that to use them as bargaining chips to stop the blockade that was put in place exactly because of actions like that?
And yeah, when you have a terrorist organization that makes stupid demands to trade hostages you gonna provoke the arrest of innocent people to achieve those insane demands.
And Israel was the one that started this? Jesus, the propaganda goes toe to toe with people like you. Palestine is a fucking region, it was never a country, Israel decided to make a country in there, they adopted those who wanted to join, you had plenty of Palestinian Arabs Jews/muslims/christians joining.
The entire region was composed by several tribes fighting each other, Israel just gave them a common enemy, because they still fight inside, hell, Hamas is the proof of that, they don’t care about their population, they thrive in terror/power/money.
cesaroncalves@reddit
Because what you're saying is completely false.
The region had relative peace for hundreds of years, before the UK had any hand in it.
holdMyBeerBoy@reddit
What? Man. History is well know, don’t lie.
That land was always controlled by others since the Jews were hunted and expelled.
Thrasea_Paetus@reddit
Um. What?
The Middle East has a broad history of contention, revolts, and war. Assuming people don’t know this because they aren’t making TikTok videos about it.
merc08@reddit
Remind me again which side keeps violating the ceasefires? Oh right, Hamas. But I'm sure another one will stick for real this time.
cesaroncalves@reddit
What? Hamas is not the one violating the ceasefires, Israel is.
Where did you even get such wrong information?
Kahzootoh@reddit
Wouldn’t that mean Israel gets exactly what it wants?
If Hamas is going to break the ceasefire, the Israelis have no reason to insist on a temporary ceasefire rather an enduring one- Hamas will give them the continuation of hostilities they want.
To answer your question: Israel.
Israel breaks ceasefires. In September of 2023, Israel carried out three days of continuous bombing of Gaza- this idea that Israel was at peace with Hamas before Oct 7th is fictional; they were bombing Gaza practically every month under the delusion that Hamas could never attack them.
OutblastEUW@reddit
This is just full of misinformation
Lunalovebug6@reddit
Yea, just tell Iran to stop funding them. Let us know how that works out
Fluid_Reaction9936@reddit
This reddit is one of those pro-terrorist ones. Truly they don't give 2 dimes about palestinians. They just use them to justify their hatred for Israel. It becomes obvious when you ask them if they condemn Hamas actions on Oct 7th. You know. The act that started this entire debacle. They can't. They will just start whatabouting like crazy and try to deflect.
Throwaway5432154322@reddit
Remember when the IDF rescued the living hostages from that journalist’s house in June 2024? People here didn’t really like that, because it meant that they had to acknowledge that the IDF actually was trying to rescue hostages, and because they were sad that Hamas lost some of its “bargaining chips” without getting anything in return. Same dynamic this time around.
2dudesinapod@reddit
They bombed the shit out of population centres as a distraction during that operation.
They killed roughly 400 people that day after using the “humanitarian pier” as a staging point.
This_Is_Fine12@reddit
You do realize Hamas opened fire with rockets and machine guns on their own civilians. The IDF has gone in with minimal Palestinian casualties. It was only once they rescued the hostages that Hamas started shooting machine guns and rockets at them in order to stop which was what resulted in the civilian deaths. Apparently Hamas has no blame in this according to you. Also, hostages weren't even supposed to be there to begin with. It was supposed to be a civilian only area. So once again we see that the Palestinians don't keep their military and civilian sections seperate.
Egb_1@reddit
Damn if only you could avoid that by not hiding hostages in highly populated civilian areas.
Big_Red_Machine_1917@reddit
Give it a rest, even the stupidest people on the planet don't believe the endless lies Zionists spew anymore.
RagingMayo@reddit
The human shield argument again? I wonder if you would say the same, if some group hid hostages in your area and some other force killed your whole family and extended family and friends and their family to supposedly fight terrorism or rescue anyone.
2dudesinapod@reddit
You think bombing civilian centres away from the hostages as a distraction is collateral damage?
Big_Red_Machine_1917@reddit
If the Israeli military actually cared the tiniest amount about any of the hostages, then they wouldn't have spent almost two years bombing the place they are being held and undermining all efforts at peace negotiations.
OutblastEUW@reddit
So why dont you apply this same logic that if Israel actually wanted to genocide the Palestinians theyd be doing it far more aggressively ?
Big_Red_Machine_1917@reddit
They are starving the entre population to death.
OutblastEUW@reddit
then why are they not dead?
Big_Red_Machine_1917@reddit
It's amazing how Zionists end up using the same denialist tactics as Axis apologists.
"If Generalplan Ost was real, why are there still slavs?" "If there was a Nanjing Massacre, why are there still Chinese?"
OutblastEUW@reddit
how many in gaza have died from starvation?
Big_Red_Machine_1917@reddit
Too many.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I don't think this is really disputed. Of course they'll rescue hostages if they know where they are and believe it possible. It's not enough of a concern to prevent them from dropping bombs on most buildings in Gaza, but if they get the opportunity to retrieve hostages that's absolutely what I'd expect them to do. Probably with a general kill zone around the area of operations, where anyone who hasn't somehow fled in advance is considered to be a terrorist and shot on sight.
major_jazza@reddit
Israel is evil, the IDF is evil. imo
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Because people are sick of attempts to equate the two sides when it’s clear they are not equal.
RagingMayo@reddit
Is the IDF evil? Yes, of course. Who is perpetrating the genocide at the moment killing thousands of Palestinians, while having the full backing of Israeli government and society. It's not about the hostages anymore. It's about taking the land from the Palestinians, while ethnic cleansing the land from them by either forcefully displacing them, bombing them or systematically starving them out.
thrice_twice_once@reddit
The IOF dig for them in the rubble of their own sins.
GetOutOfTheWhey@reddit
Because most people are cynical and dont believe a single word coming from Netanyahu's mouthpieces.
bouguerean@reddit
So you're right that this doesn't deserve downvotes, but I can understand why. It's not about downvoting these people themselves--the loss itself is tragic. They're civilians, one is even a peace activist, and of course they didn't deserve to die. But their deaths were also from nearly two years ago, so revisiting this now seems a little...exceptional.
It's very hard to keep people's attention about retrieving two corpses right now, especially as everyone already made peace with thousands of corpses under rubble being left behind. So it's not Israeli vs Palestinian deaths, but the opposite: we're conditioned now to let these things go. I think people have just lost the attention for two deaths of anyone at this point.
I'd also bet people have questions about the number of civilian deaths the retrieval of their corpses cost, since we're all aware the IDF doesn't exactly take that seriously. And we're also all dealing with the onslaught of propaganda from the Israeli gov't, so I think people are wary about this article using the bodies of these civilians as propaganda for continued Israeli military action. Considering the genocide is ongoing, I'd be sympathetic to that wariness.
AvangeliceMY9088@reddit
After so many years of prolonged fighting and lost of innocent lives ON BOTH SIDES. I wish to say this. Fuck Israel military. Fuck natanyahu. Fuck hamas. Fuck terrorists.
Free Palestine and let it live in peace.
moraf@reddit
It's so easy to say 'free palestine', bit what do you actually mean? Gaza? WB? Area A, B or C?
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
Hamas is a natural response to the brutal occupation of Palestinians. Fuck then but they don't exist without reason.
bbrnh@reddit
Didn’t Israel leave Gaza alone for 15 years? What occupation are you talking about?
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
Israel didn't leave Gaza alone. They just withdrew troops. People were still getting bombed and abducted without reason. Israel still controlled all resources.
bbrnh@reddit
So you wont respond, that’s what i thought.
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
If you actually want to learn there's mountains of literature and evidence by actual experts in relevant fields. I used to support Israel till I decided to read up on the conflict.
bbrnh@reddit
damn that crazy
bbrnh@reddit
Firstly: israel did not bomb for no reason, rockets were flying from gaza because hamas hates the jews to begin with, if you want to believe that israel was starting every missile gunfight then you are seriously brainwashed (may be a muslim yourself). Secondly: israel was not “controlling” the resources, it was providing (gifting) them to uncivilised people of gaza who can’t build anything on their own. What did you want israel to do? NOT provide electricity into gaza?
ArCovino@reddit
You’re saying the Palestinians only have terrorism as an option. Talk about bigotry of low expectations.
funditinthewild@reddit
Where has using diplomacy in the UN got them? American vetoes.
Where has Oslo got them? Netanyahu comes in a few years later and publicly goes against Oslo.
Even the first intifada was mostly civil disobedience until Israel responded with force.
The fact that there are multiple human rights organisations that have done the diplomatic route by bringing up evidence of Israeli crimes but nothing has happened, what are you expecting? It took Israel to commit such brazen acts of injustice in the current war for the West to start shifting.
ArCovino@reddit
You’re leaving out a lot of terrorism and violence that occurred simultaneously.
Diplomacy has gotten them more than violence has. You disregard Oslo but today there is a structure for a Palestinian state that never was before. Palestinians have never disavowed violence and terrorism. Even the PA, the more moderate polity, still pays pensions to Palestinians who die killing Israeli civilians.
SharenaAskr@reddit
that's what happens when you occupy someone and keep dehumanizing them until they can't take it anymore.
see: the 1804 haitian massacre, the IRA, and probably many more not so well-known examples. funny how history keeps repeating and repeating, huh?
ArCovino@reddit
Violence didn’t end that conflict and it won’t end this one.
Chalibard@reddit
Yes they used up all other options through the ICJ, the UN, bilateral negociation... You should know that considering that the US have used its veto constantly in this matter.
They can'influence Israelian politics because they have no effective political representation, Amnesty international relayed how the few palestinian in the Kesset are neutered by legislative amendment, their bills get disaulified constantly before reaching discussions in parliament. Jimmy Carter himself called out Israel's Apartheid system.
When they did a overwhelmingly peaceful demonstration, the "great march of return" in 2018, the UN reported IDF sniper targeted disabled people, journalists, medics and children. The result ? 214 dead (46 kids) and 36'100 wounded (8'800 kids) ...
What do you expect them to do?
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
Shut the fuck up about terrorism. Your nation has engaged in and funded terrorists around the world. We're still suffering from that. Hell your terrorist ass nation just vetoed another ceasefire agreement in Gaza while you're sitting in your trailer park worried about people's genitals.
ReadLocke2ndTreatise@reddit
What they did on October 7 is indefensible and helped seal their fate.
muntaser13@reddit
Pretty much everything Israel does is indefensible.
ReadLocke2ndTreatise@reddit
From the perspective of the first world, yes. But as a middle easterner born into the yoke of Islamism, I see this conflict as a long overdue judgment. No Israeli Jew ever threatened to cut my head off for apostasy.
muntaser13@reddit
I come from a Muslim background, and a Palestinian one, never happened to me. I see you're self hating but you don't speak for anyone but yourself. As far as beheaded goes, Isis is more known for that, and Israel literally arms Isis affiliated groups to steal food in Gaza.https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-providing-guns-to-gaza-jihadist-gang-to-bolster-oppositionGaza.https
Also the notion that this is a conflict of Jews vs Muslims is idiotic. It's a simple matter of the colonizers vs the colonized. I'm an atheist but unlike you, I don't hate Muslims. This is just a conflict of Palestinians fighting against the dispossession of their homes.
ReadLocke2ndTreatise@reddit
That is not how the ummah views it. They view it as the "cursed yahud" fighting the righteous of God. The ummah must be humbled.
muntaser13@reddit
Ya no they don't wtf lol. You're not from a Muslim background at all. 🤣
ReadLocke2ndTreatise@reddit
I was born and raised in Gaziantep. Tell me I'm a westerner.
muntaser13@reddit
So you're Turkish I'm assuming? One of the most westernized middle eastern countries?
vegeful@reddit
Classic u are not muslim enough. I get that in my own country. What a way to kill conversation.
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
So that justifies genocide of a population that's more literate and tech savvy than your own?
ReadLocke2ndTreatise@reddit
2 million Gazans will not be systematically and industrially annihilated. They'll live. They just won't have self governance.
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
What Israel's been doing since 1948 means that the country will never be safe. 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinian civilians. Even before October 7th. You racist genocide apologists are alone in thinking that the world began on October 7th 2023.
ExArdEllyOh@reddit
The problem with that fine sentiment is that Palestine does not want to live in peace and never has. Or at least not a peace in which there are any free infidels in the region.
JimbosForever@reddit
A free Palestine is rockets fired at israel from the much much bigger west bank. There has to be some serious deradicalization before we can gamble this way.
MichelangeBro@reddit
I'm sure widespread murder and ethnic cleansing will do lots to deradicalize people.
JimbosForever@reddit
Doesn't have tkcbe widespread. Look what 1200 did.
Master_Income_8991@reddit
Right, we all better pray that Palestinians in general are less radical than Israelis.
JimbosForever@reddit
Another proof that prayers don't work. The Palestinians are significantly more radical than the Israelis.
Dorrbrook@reddit
Laughable claim
ExArdEllyOh@reddit
Does the Israeli government officially call for the ethnic cleansing, murder or enslavement of Muslims?
Because that is exactly what Hamas wants to do to Jews.
Dorrbrook@reddit
Google translate exists
EducationalReply6493@reddit
100 years of Zionist terrorism begs to differ
djconfessions@reddit
Hamas only exists because the conditions of the Israeli occupation breed resistance, including bloody violent armed resistance.
Or should the Palestinians just be killed in silence?
The problem isn’t Palestine or Hamas. It’s Israel.
redditing_away@reddit
It'd be a start to finally and unequivocally accept that Israel exists and is there to stay. Not some thinly veiled bullshit like the 50 year truce that Hamas etc are proposing. There will not be a single Palestinian state and there won't be any right to return if we're completely honest and realistic. That's not going to happen, especially since both groups deeply distrust each other - both with reason I might add.
In the same vein the Israelis need to get their shit together and stop the atrocious settlement policies, including demolishing any that exist today. As well as stopping their shenanigans with the PA and undermining it at every point. Handing Netanjahu over to the ICC would also be welcomed.
funditinthewild@reddit
That happened. It was called Oslo. And then Israel just increased their settlements, to name just one transgression.
TheJewPear@reddit
I’m with you, but there will never be peace as long as there are “from the river to the sea” Palestinians and Israelis. Anyone on either side that thinks millions should be deported or killed is an enemy of peace.
AvangeliceMY9088@reddit
This is the by product of generations of Palestinians & Israelis being brought up to hate. No mere reddit post or even foreign intervention can help fix this complex problem that has been spanning for decades but if we keep preaching about peace and win each person maybe one day, maybe in the next generation or the next there will be peace in the middle east.
First thing first each Israeli needs to push their goverment to put natanyahu to the Hague and each Palestinian needs to stop hamas from taking root in their people.
brydeswhale@reddit
Wow, I wonder why you would hate someone who brutally oppresses you? Surely it must be taught in kindergarten, rather than arising naturally from interacting on a daily basis with ethnonationalists who consider you less than human.
georgeb1904@reddit
It is taught in their schools as part of the curriculum though
gerkletoss@reddit
You say that as though it isn't quite literally taught in school
Dreadedvegas@reddit
Well thats the crux of the problem. There isn't enough people on both sides that actually want that.
Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
It would also be good to free the Israelis from the specter of Palestinian terrorism.
DanDan1993@reddit (OP)
I'll drink to that.
SongFeisty8759@reddit
Word.
rabidfusion@reddit
It's a shame Israel has been oppressing and slaughtering Palestinians, in the continued expansion of their colonisation of Palestine spanning decades, which led to the events of their capture and subsequent deaths.
miklosokay@reddit
Ah yes, they brought it on themselves. Those poor hamas and tag alongs were forced to do all the killing, raping and kidnapping. Such a sad situation really 😢
adasiukevich@reddit
There are no confirmed rape cases from October 7th. That being said, of course taking civilian hostages is wrong, but Israel have literally killed so many of them it's hard to take their cause seriously.
redditing_away@reddit
Source
Detailed investigation
adasiukevich@reddit
It is possible that there were sexual assaults but at the end of the day Israeli prosecutors have been unable to name a single vicitim or perpetrator.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-still-cant-find-any-7-october-rape-victims-prosecutor-admits
To know for sure we would need evidence like this.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/09/world/video/israel-sde-teiman-alleged-prisoner-abuse-footage-diamond-tsr-digvid
xland44@reddit
Firstly, israeli prosecuters haven't been "unable" to do anything regarding this, there have been no sentencings or indictments yet related to any caught Oct. 7 terrorist; this is due to the complications of trying such large numbers of people and the difficulties involved in trying them under regular criminal procedures. Instead, Israel is preparing a special tribunal to handle all October 7th cases.
There were sexual acts; this is not a matter of speculation. Released hostage testimonies confirmed they were sexually abused; you have videos of hostages being dragged half naked bleeding from their crotch. How did the blood in their crotch get there, tell me? Magic paint and dye?
Just for one example https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/world/middleeast/hamas-hostage-sexual-assault.html
There is also the UN report linked above which investigated the matter thoroughly and confirmed there was a pattern of sexually harassing or raping women on Oct 7.
Let's cut the crap: no amount of evidence in the world would be enough for you, and it has nothing to do with sufficient evidence and everything to do with their having been born Israeli. I doubt you'd go through such efforts to ""be satisfied"" of enough evidence of sexual abuse against women of any other nationality in the world.
rabidfusion@reddit
The Israeli government brought it down on themselves and their citizens, they've been at this since 1948.
Long before Hamas.
You can try to twist my words all you want, at the end of the day we're talking about the oppressor vs the oppressed.
Cause and effect.
Assassiiinuss@reddit
You're essentially arguing that Palestinians don't have any agency. Why do you think that?
bellysavalis@reddit
Treat people like animals and they'll eventually start to act like them, this has been true throughout history.
Oppress large groups of people, make them desperate and hateful enough and bad things will happen
LiquorMaster@reddit
When you're so pro Palestine, you believe the Palestinians are animals.
CharmCityKid09@reddit
Do they ever stop and think about what it is their saying or implying by making those statements?
brydeswhale@reddit
How much does hasbara get paid now? Did any of that $150 million trickle down to you?
NordSquideh@reddit
when does your version of history start in the levant? Before or after Islam was in the region?
Zipz@reddit
Why start at 48 ?
Why start at such a convenient time for you? Why not bring up hebron in 29'?
rabidfusion@reddit
Let me guess, you're going to conveniently omit the facts that just as many Palestinians died in the rioting and Palestinian Muslims took in hundreds of Palestinian Jews?
Anything to make the oppressed look like the villains.
But to answer your question,
Because we're literally talking about the nation state of Israel and that nation state didn't exist in 1929.
Zipz@reddit
You brought up a starting point.
Imagine thinking Jews weren't the repressed ones in hebron LOL
I corrected you and let you know that is incorrect and its pretty wild you choose 48 because it clearly ignores history....
If you want to bring up 48 and only blame one side that is also intresting because Israel wasnt the one who declared war un 48.
rabidfusion@reddit
Yes.
May 14th 1948.
The day that the nation state of Israel declared independence.
Israel. The context of this post.
The nation state of Israel that is currently waging a genocide and your whataboutism doesn't change that.
If you think I'm going to fall into arguing against Zionist talking points you're mistaken.
Continue being a cheerleader for oppression. :)
Zipz@reddit
LOL what a weird argument. I guess their is no palestine israel conflict because Palestine isn't a real state by that argument.....
LOOLOOOLOLOOL
The mental gymnastics you do
We are talking about the conflict between the two groups of people so its interesting you want to ignore decades of history so you could try and have a point.
DanDan1993@reddit (OP)
Oh yah trying to decipitate a Thai worker with a lawnmower will definitely stop the oppression
Master_Income_8991@reddit
Is the lawnmower in the room with us now?
DanDan1993@reddit (OP)
It's probably in some evidence warehouse. Or so you think that didn't happen?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-podium-israels-envoy-plays-gruesome-hamas-attack-video-2023-10-26/
"...showed a Hamas fighter trying to decapitate a man with a garden tool during the Palestinian militants' Oct. 7 attack on Israel."
Master_Income_8991@reddit
Wow, you didn't even get the lawnmower part right. 😲
DanDan1993@reddit (OP)
Yeah sorry for getting the wrong name of the garden tool. Is that your only issue? Me not translating the tool correctly?
Master_Income_8991@reddit
Fine I'll start over.
Are there any hoes in the room with you now? 😂
brydeswhale@reddit
You know there isn’t.
Master_Income_8991@reddit
No hoes? 😭
Better head on down to the strip-club! 😂
DanDan1993@reddit (OP)
Is this some prime set up for yo momma joke? I honestly don't understand what your bottom line is
HockeyHocki@reddit
Disgusting comment
Zipz@reddit
Its been up for 6 hours now and this has a negative score still....
So can someone explain to me why this article upset this sub so damn much?
It makes no sense to me. You guys are downvoting an article about innocent peoples bodies being brought back.
Sevinki@reddit
People on this sub love Hamas and don’t like it when Hamas loses leverage.
Check out the post from a few days ago that debunked the Hamas claims about a massacre by the IDF at an aid center. The mental gymnastics are insane, half the people cannot accept that Hamas simply lied and Al Jazeera spread those lies willingly without any evidence until Video evidence directly contradicted the claims.
They dont actually care about the palestinian civilian population, they care about making Hamas look good and making Israel look bad.
vegeful@reddit
Making Terrorist look good. When they say pro palestine they actually mean pro Hamas. Crazy.
Like do we need to take side? We can just hate both side but nah. Double down on them.
Also remind me of the Houti and Hezbo support on reddit.
Master_Income_8991@reddit
It's moral masterbation. Nobody really cares about bodies being moved when people are still dieing.
Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
If nobody cares, why haven’t Hamas just given the corpses back to Israel free of charge?
Master_Income_8991@reddit
You would have to ask Hamas to know for sure.
If I had to guess, they don't care either.
Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
If they didn’t care, they’d just give them back if asked. But since they constantly make them parts of deals, it seems that they view the corpses as a way to extort Israel. Hence why these operations are worthwhile for Israel to carry out.
Master_Income_8991@reddit
Well if Israel cares that much about the corpses I guess they did the right thing.
Meanwhile most people are worried about additional loss of life.
Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
Apparently Hamas doesn’t care about additional loss of life, the only ones that really matter when it comes to that. Since if they did, they’d just give the corpses back.
Master_Income_8991@reddit
I just don't think they cared enough to risk delivering them. They have practically no value. Hostages are generally kept alive for a reason.
Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
Hamas has delivered corpses before without any incident to themselves. But they don’t even have to deliver them if they think it’s too risky. They could literally just put them in an abandoned building and inform Israel where they are. Then, no one gets hurt and Hamas can get rid of a worthless corpse.
Master_Income_8991@reddit
An even easier solution would be to allow Israel to come and get them all by themselves. You literally can't get lower risk or easier than that. Puts the risk on Israeli soldiers actually.
Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
Well yeah. Why would Israel risk themselves? We’ve seen what Israel does to minimize risk, and that’s enact a big military operation to minimize risk to themselves. Not only would it be easier for everyone if Hamas just left the bodies in abandoned buildings with no one around and then told Israel where they are, it would also minimize the risk of loss of life for all involved. Can’t do better than that.
Master_Income_8991@reddit
I don't know what else to tell you dude. Waltzing into Gaza seems riskier to me than staying at home.
Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
And leads to more loss of life. So why doesn’t Hamas just give the corpses back?
Master_Income_8991@reddit
I think I've already answered all 10,000 permutations of your single question. We're gonna start going in circles here If I don't stop you somewhere.
Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
Really the question is why do you think Israel should do nothing when Hamas should be the ones getting rid of, what you think are, useless assets? I think you’re 100% wrong that these bodies are worthless, and obviously Hamas and Israel agree with me.
Zipz@reddit
No its just regular old hate.
If its not a negative story about israel most the sub just ignores.
Master_Income_8991@reddit
My bad, I thought you were actually asking 😂
hectorgarabit@reddit
Then Israel can keep their genocide going while minimizing casualties. Believing the US or Israel is the dumbest thing ever.
PlinyToTrajan@reddit
They waded through piles of bodies to recover *their* in-group's bodies.
DanDan1993@reddit (OP)
The bodies of a couple taken into Gaza by Hamas during the 7 October attacks have been recovered by Israeli forces, the country's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has announced.
He said the bodies of husband and wife Judi Weinstein Haggai, 70, and Gad Haggai, 72, were recovered during a special operation by the Israeli military and the country's security agency, Shin Bet.
Mr Netanyahu said they were killed on 7 October, 2023, and their bodies taken into Gaza by Hamas.
In a statement, he said: "Together with all the citizens of Israel, my wife and I extend our heartfelt condolences to the dear families.
"Our hearts ache for the most terrible loss. May their memory be blessed.
"We will not rest or be silent until we return all of our abductees home - the living and the dead alike."
The Hostages and Missing Persons Families Forum has been campaigning for the safe return of all Israeli citizens held hostage by Hamas.
The hostage families said in a statement: "The return of Judi and Gad is painful and heartbreaking, yet it also brings healing to our uncertainty.
"Their return reminds us all that it is the state's duty to bring everyone home, so that we, the families, together with all the people of Israel, can begin the process of healing and recovery.
"Decision-makers must do everything necessary to reach an agreement that will return all 56 remaining hostages - the living for rehabilitation and the deceased for burial. There is no need to wait another 608 agonising days for this.
"The mission can be completed as early as tomorrow morning. This is what the majority of the Israeli people want."
Most of the hostages returned alive to Israel so far have been released as part of deals with Hamas during two temporary ceasefires in late 2023 and early 2025.
The most recent ceasefire that saw a pause in the fighting and the exchange of Israeli hostages and Palestinian prisoners fell apart in March.
Israel has rejected calls for an unconditional or permanent ceasefire, saying Hamas cannot stay in Gaza.
On Wednesday, the US vetoed a draft UN Security Council resolution that demanded an "immediate, unconditional and permanent ceasefire" between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza and unhindered aid access across the the war-ravaged territory.
The other 14 countries on the council voted in favor of the draft.
"The United States has been clear: We would not support any measure that fails to condemn Hamas and does not call for Hamas to disarm and leave Gaza," said Dorothy Shea, acting US ambassador to the UN, ahead of the vote.
She told the council it would also undermine US-led efforts to broker a ceasefire.
DanDan1993@reddit (OP)
Some additional information:
They were taken by the Mujahideen Brigade, same faction that took the Bibas family. They are not Hamas but they collaborate with them.
Intel was gathered from an interogation of a terrorist by Shin Bet.
Judith Weinstein was a peace activist, also the oldest hostage (80).
DanDan1993@reddit (OP)
Some additional information:
They were taken by the Mujahideen Brigade, same faction that took the Bibas family. They are not Hamas but they collaborate with them.
Intel was gathered from an interogation of a terrorist by Shin Bet.
Judith Weinstein was a peace activist, also the oldest hostage (80).
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