Thoughts on this? The vast majority of Turks and Greeks have negative views on Israel

Ah, cause you believe everything you see on the internet and you've checked every single person's ID to know that they are Israeli? About that comment, it was debunked a long time ago - it was taken out of context and the minisiter was talking about Hamas, not the Palestinians in general. Here's some info and you can clearly hear the word"hamas":

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/01/israel-south-africa-genocide-case-fake-quotes/677198/

https://youtube.com/shorts/4vYUqGWEiPY?si=RrNuxSuQFd2AOGRz

https://youtube.com/shorts/LkCo1UXbvOc?si=MgunJ2ggnd-bNYZ0

And of course, there will be hate speech coming from Israelis when they were attacked in such a brutal way, I don't expect anything less (and most of it has come from far right politicians who have been criticised by the public and everyone else for their words). However, I've never seen before in any other conflict or war, people celebrating, dancing on the streets and cheering the medievil massacres that were done in a foreign country. I've yet to see any Palestinians criticizing the language that Hamas and other terrorist organisations use.... Actually scratch that - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNsU1bVuh5o this is what happens when Palestinians decide to protest - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C20616KMh3o or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-NhmzOC_zU ...but again the pro Hamas people including in Europe, don't care about what the people in Gaza want, they care about shitting on Israel.

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

Should i explain to each one of you that i'm not defending those celebrating hamas' attacks, but you're the one defending the other side?

Btw no, the only israelis that defend israel's attacks arent the far right wingers. Even you here are doing the same thing, are you a far right israeli from bulgaria?

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egati002@reddit

Haha you wish that I were, but no, I'm just familiar with the historical conflict and the current war. You are not defending those celebrating hamas' attacks as you say, but I don't hear much else other than "Israel bad...Gaza...Hamas...mmmm let's skip that part of the issue".

Even in the current peace talks Israel has continued to request 2 things only since the terror attack happend - return the hostages and dismantle Hamas. That's the objective. Pretty easy and anyone with 1% brain and heart who actually cares about his country would agree to this request. However, the reality shows a completely differet answer from Hamas, namely "we don't care, because we hate Isaelis more than we care about our own people". And I will keep defending Israel until the pro Palestine groups start to actually make demands to Hamas and start pressuring them to surrender.

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

You have low reading comprehention then. Because i told you they both commit War crimes multiple times. And i told you many times that Hamas holding hostages does not give israel government to do anything they want. People don't buy it anymore bro come up with new arguments.

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egati002@reddit

And maybe you don't know enough about international relations, geopolitics, wars, laws and so on? Hamas holding hostages gives the Israeli, and any other government whose hostages Hamas holds, the right to act via military actions including rescue missions, a, airstrikes or drone operations, securing borders and military assets to prevent escalations or spreading, prisoner swaps which are all things that have been done already. Don't forget that this wasn't simply Hamas kidnapping a bunch of people - they invaded a foreign terriroty, killed 1,200 people in a very barbaric way, literally like in medievil times and then kidnapped over 250 people. This was an act of war, an agression and is dealth with as such.

I see what youa re trying to say, but it doesn't make sense - you want Israel to kill the same amount of people that died during Oct 7, 1 life for 1 life? Because you keep counting numbers... Then think about what does one life cost? What happens in the future if Israel killed 1,200 ppl and did nothing more, but Hamas is still intact, still owning thousands of rockets, heavy machinery, guns, still being jihadist and wanting to kill all Jews and infidels, still wanting to create a caliphate? How do these 2 countries exist next to each other without any serious geopolitical changes? Explain how do you see that future, when you keep in mind that Gaza started 5 wars with Israel from 2008 till now and has made hundreds of terrorist attacks. In every past war, if you read about them, you'll see that it gets to the same situation - Gaza starts a war, loses it, Israel dominates, the international community tells Israel to stop and they do. Repeat the cicle. How many more times should this game be played with Hamas?

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

"the right to act via military actions including rescue missions, a, airstrikes or drone operations, securing borders and military assets to prevent escalations or spreading, prisoner swaps which are all things that have been done already."

And no killing children via bombing schools and hospitals? Bro, can you stop the womp womp already? İ didn't buy it the first time, won't buy it in the 100th.

"Don't forget that this wasn't simply Hamas kidnapping a bunch of people - they invaded a foreign terriroty, killed 1,200 people in a very barbaric way, literally like in medievil times and then kidnapped over 250 people. This was an act of war, an agression and is dealth with as such."

And therefore we should turn a blind eye to the killing of 43 k (not 50 as hamas' LİES told us, that would be very evil) in a barbaroc way. Yeah because morality.

"Gaza starts a war, loses it, Israel dominates, the international community tells Israel to stop and they do. Repeat the cicle. How many more times should this game be played with Hamas?"

Maybe killing civillians created more terrorists? Maybe when you killed a child, their father will join the terroristst group just for revenge? It can't possibly be that case right? What's your solution, kill as many children enough to ethnicly cleanse the arabs? İ don't have to find them a solution without genociding. They should find that solution. And if they cannot, then they can just disband their own state for all i care. İ don't value israel so much to believe it's worth killing thousands of children for the sake of israel.

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egati002@reddit

Yeah, that's exactly what happend with Israelis after their families got killed - they got radicalised. Do you know how many Gazans die in bombings and in war actions when they aren't at war with Israel or shoot rockets at them? - 0

"And if they cannot, then they can just disband their own state for all i care. İ don't value israel so much to believe it's worth killing thousands of children for the sake of israel." - aaaaaah here we gooo :D :D

...so they can disapper but Gazans can stay. But then based on your own logic - Israelis are 10 mil, Gazans only 2 mil - will it be better for 10 mil ppl to die? You are confirming my suspicions that a lot of the pro Palestine people have some kind of a weird disdain towards Israel, maybe Jews overall, and that's why they focus so much on this war, when the world is full of similar conflicts currently and historically. No matter how many exaples I give, it won't matter, because it's not about the actual conflict, the rules of war, the geopolitics, the relations, it's about "... then they can just disband their own state for all i care. İ don't value israel so much...".

I hope you do understand that a military conflict can be resolved without any of the nations having to disband and disappear. Children can stop dying immediately if Hamas returns the hostages and surrenders. Actually, less children would have died if Hamas at least built some bomb shelters for civilians, not only for themselves. But I guess even that's too much to ask of them, right? When Hamas disappears, the terrorist military operations will stop too, then the actual Gazans who want to live normal lifes not under Hamas will have the chance to do something about it. To resolve a conflict both sides need to be agreeable. Hamas will fall eventually, like I said hopefully soon, and then there will be a better and more secure option for Gazans to live. Of course they won't be best friends with Israel, ever, but some sort of a peaceful co-existence will be more probable especially when the US and other countries get involved in rebuilding it.

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

Bro do you think i'll try to reason with you after that "i would support them nuking my country" cuckoldery 🤣 yeah kill another 50k children and Hamas will disappear and third parties will punish the isolated insidents just like in iraq and usa🥰

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nikostheater@reddit

No one celebrates the death of children but Hamas that use them as propaganda. In wars, people die. That’s why sane people don’t start an idiotic war using unspeakable barbarism against a nation with avastly superior army and capabilities, especially when that very nation left completely that region for them to rule it freely and instead of turning that area to a riviera of the Middle East, they turned it into a barbaric Islamist hellhole based on corruption, theocracy, hate, aggression and idiocy.

A person can both be sympathetic to the plight of children and innocents while also understanding the realities of the war, especially a war in an urban setting like Gaza.

There’s no slogan, the fact that Hamas is using civilians as human shields and places like hospitals, mosques, schools, even UN buildings for war purposes is very well proven. Sorry that reality disagrees with you.

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

At this point they can just nuke all the country and you would still say "they did it to erase Hamas and civillians were human shields"

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egati002@reddit

If they wanted to actually commit genocide and erase Gaza, they would have done it on day one. This is an official war and it's actually the first war where fewer civilian casualties have died in an urban environment. Check for yourself, the usual stats are between 4 to 10 civilians for 1 soldier (based on other urban warfare data), right now in Gaza the casualties are 2:1 - https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

Even russia has fewer civillian casualties bro just don't eat up all the propoganda news they give you. Also "if they wanted they could kill more" is not the argument you think it is. Killing doesn't become evil after a certain number.

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egati002@reddit

Russia has fewer civilian casualties? uuh yeah, the war is faught in Ukraine, not in Russia, of course there will be more civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Just because you don't like what it says, doesn't mean it's propaganda. Just as mentioned, this is the only war where one side, hamas, the terrorists publish casualties data immediately after something happens. Have you ever asked yourself how is that possible? Have you ever researched how casualties of war or natural disasters are counted and how much time it takes to veryfy one body. Hamas has oracles that see into the future, see through rubble and so on? Or simply, they are lying. Not saying that there aren;t casualties, but the numbers for sure are not what hamas says.

What the actual thruth is though, we will know after the war ends and third parties enter Gaza and start investigating. Neither side will post accurately because it's impossible to know while fighting if still ongoing. How to stop the deaths immediately - stop the war. That's the only solution, but it won't happen when Hamas still thinks that they have an upper hand because they don't agree to anything. If Hamas is left functioning, there will be more wars and deaths in the future and this saga will never end, because they have only 1 aim - total destruction of Israel and the killing of all Israeli and Jews (civilians and combatants), and the creation of a jihadist caliphate.

Maybe I sound cold, but I watched almost all the videos that Hamas posted on Oct 7 and I have no feeling of mercy for them. Did they behead babies, yes, they also burned one in an oven, shot them and beat them to death. Were there exactly 40 beheaded babies - no. Bombs kill people, that's their main purpose. But also Israel doesn't bomb indiscriminately, gives warning before dropping bombs, calls on the phones of civilians or drops leaflets. I've also seen how Hamas tells its own people not to believe the leaflets ans to stay inside their homes, also seen them shoot at civilians that are trying to evacute from the buildings. Because of aaaall this, I will never support Hamas, or a Palestine ruled by Hamas or anyone with similar ideas, I don't support the right wing fractions in Israel too. I also see that Israel is trying to follow the international rules of war and Hamas isn't. We can all read what Hamas says they want to do with the region, which I will also never support. So for me, the current situation is very clear. I'm just sitting and waiting for Hamas to surrender someday soon and feel bad for everyone who died in a totally unnecessary and sensless war.

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

LoL sure bro they did behead babies. Let me correct one thing, you don't have mercy, but that's not because Hamas did bad things. We both know why you don't have mercy for them, at least can you be as honest as asmogold and say it openly?

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Why, wouldn't you cuck for us like you would do for israel? Does it only happen when the other Side is white/backed by whites? Wouldn't you cuck for us turcos?

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egati002@reddit

"white/backed by whites?"Ah, I think you are watching too much american media? We are both white - Indoeuropean :D

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

Everything you just said is whataboutism. İ neither defend Hamas nor african ethnic cleansing, nor usa's War crimes in the middle east. May i say israel is bad now?

Btw your "War is hell but all the guilt is in the one who started it" facade doesn't fool people anymore bro. İt worked in 2023 when 7 october's shock made israel look like a victim. But they have done so many killings with that excuse people just don't buy it anymore. This poll just shows that

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egati002@reddit

I'm giving you examples of similar cases, I'm not shifting the topic or excluding this war. And that's the thing, from day one Israelis weren't looked at as a victim. From the beginnig you could hear people saying "but why do they have to retaliate, can't they just not do anything"...and leave an active jihadist military to do as they please. From day 1 Jews living in completely different parts of the world started getting attacked as if they part of this war.

"War is hell but all the guilt is in the one who started it" is not a facade - it's called the primary aggressor. And yes, I blame every primary aggressor who starts a war on the territory of another sovereign state for the purpose of conquest. In this case that;s Hamas.

Do I agree with Bibi, or Ben Gvir, or Smotrich, of course not, but they will be dealt with by their own people when they get voted out. Are there cases of war crimes on the Israeli side, sure, I can even thin of 3 right now, but those cases are criticised and being investigated. Soldiers actually get arrested and face consequences. But as I'm repeating myself, I still don't hear any vocal criticisms of Hamas, no demands for them from the international comunity, from governments, from the UN, etc., no set standards for them to follow....

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Glittering_Spot_2695@reddit

Primary agressor isn't what you think it is bro. İt doesn't give you an endless pass as i said a hundred times. For instance if bulgarian government went mad and attacked usa, usa can't nuke bulgaria into oblivion and say "they started it". Maybe you can understand with this example.

LoL and ofcourse War crimes are isolated insidents that will be investigated. Like the mass destruction weapons in iraq.

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egati002@reddit

Yes, they can if they wanted to. They nuked Japan. The Allied forces killed 300,000 to 600,000 civilians in Germany at the end of the war and 1.2 mil soldiers.

UN Charter (Article 2(4)) - the use of force is prohibited except in self-defense or with Security Council authorization. If the larger force is responding to an armed attack (e.g., the smaller country started a war), it may claim self-defense. The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) seeks to prevent nuclear war but does not explicitly prohibit use by recognized nuclear states. The Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) (adopted in 2017) bans nuclear weapons use outright, but major nuclear powers (USA, Russia, China, etc.) have not joined. ....so yeah, not the best example. Basically war is regulated by international treaties and laws, but the things that are actually forbidden are fewer than what you'd expect.

If we assume that Bulgaria attacked the US - same as Hamas - Israel - meaning, multiple terrorist attacks, several wars, has a legal charter stating that we will not surrender until we eradicate every American off the face of the Earth and take over their country and top it off with a border breach and the killing and kidnapping of over 1,000 ppl....BG wouldn't exist right now. The same would apply if we did that to the UK, France, Germany, Russia, China, Turkey and every single country with a decent military. And while they would be dropping a massive bomb on us, every single Bulgarian's last thoughts would be "well, yeah (ruling political party)...what did you expect"

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Nope, it's super relevant to bring up. From a country where the majority of its people are genocide deniers to cry about "genocide" somewhere else is super hypocritical and shows ill intent.

Basically, if you are genocide denier, STFU about genocides in general.

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kokoraskrasatos@reddit

Sorry before we continue I will need you to renounce the ethnic cleansing of Bulgarians from Macedonia during the Balkan wars, the robbing of the Hebrew population of Thessaloniki by the state after world war 2, the persecution of the communists in the 50s and the murders by the paramilitary junta troops in Cyprus just before the 74 occupation, for starters. Then I can think of some more. You see I know our nation's history also and all Balkans and Turkey can play this game untill we die of old age. Every country in the area has done some vile shit. Maybe we can start building bridges instead of pointing fingers, just for a change.

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casettedeck@reddit

Being ignorant about something that happened 100 years ago is not the same as rising for something every other day.

The Turks don’t call what they did a genocide because they say there was a war going on at the time.

Young Turks vs Ottomans vs Greece vs Armenians and Kurds.

It was a war a lot of people died on both sides. That’s what war is.

Just like we don’t call other wars a genocide of the winning side against the losing side, the Turks don’t consider their victory in establishing a regime change and the birth of the modern state of Turkiye a genocide.

Sure do. No justification for any.

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Only-Dimension-4424@reddit

404 not found...

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zeclem_@reddit

i do, they were bad. we should have done a better job and make our glöri...oh wait wrong sub

Bro genocide deniers hating israel is not suprising c'mon now.

PharaohxAzat@reddit

So you recognise the Armenian genocide? I can easily recognise both genocides. What your ancestors did to the Armenians and the Assyrians and what the Israelis are doing today to the Palestinians are the same thing. It is either both or nothing, pick your camp

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Maleficent-Menu1133@reddit

A different subject. I didn't talk about which one is better or whether they are different or the same thing. I'm not expressing an opinion; I'm stating a fact about my people. Whether you choose to believe it or not is your freedom. No need to be overdefensive here.

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PharaohxAzat@reddit

It is not a different subject, when you deny the Armenian genocide because your people did it but feel so strongly about Palestine this makes you a hypocrite and this actually weakens the position of Palestine supporters (and destroy any integrity you think you have).

Whenever you say the word genocide remember the person who coined this term in 1944, Raphael Lemkin, do you know why? He can tell you.

“I became interested in genocide because it happened so many times. First to the Armenians, then after the Armenians, Hitler took action.” You can deny the genocide for eternity, but the word itself is made after what your ancestors did, so it will never be forgotten and you will be forever shamed for not recognising it.

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Maleficent-Menu1133@reddit

It was a different subject. You just talk about "both are bad" which is not The issue. I have to say some things tho.

"you deny the Armenian genocide because your people did it"

Lmao no. Just no. The Turks deny the genocide because they do not accept that a genocide occurred. They are aware that Armenians were killed but oppose the idea that it was a genocide planned by the state. They believe it was "forced relocation"' The decision for relocation was made after the Turks killed during the Armenian uprisings, and many innocent Armenians were killed in the process. No historian denies this, but the issue is that this forced relocation has been recognized as a genocide.

They also have a problem with the numbers. They say It's impossible for it to be 1.5 million based on the conditions at that time, and there is no evidence to validate this number.

However, the main point is that these people are not egomaniacal psychopaths. Im not here to talk about armenian genocide anyway. Just understand the pov of turks.They have their own reasons for denying the genocide (whether right or wrong). Therefore, it shouldn’t be surprising that these people oppose the genocide committed by Israel. This is not hypocrisy because if Israel had committed genocide against Armenians, the outcome would still be the same "If you are a genocide denier, then you must support Israel" mentality is wrong. Change that mentality.

Make it “in the past 120 years” and you have a few

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WorldRecordOnline@reddit

gif

That's.. literally the definition of ethnic cleansing

maybe yeah, it's reality what can you do

Not when the overwhelming majority of the casualties are Palestinian civilians. Israel has made it clear that their objective is to wipe out Palestinians. Israeli media constantly spreads dehumanizing, genocidal rhetoric.

Gaza is very densely populated, it's a regular phenomenon in city sieges to see a lot of civilian casualties, especially when the Muslim armed forces are using civilians as cover and decoys etc.

basedfinger@reddit

Rdttr

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Oha_its_shiny@reddit

it wasn't massive like a genocide

turk doing genocide denial

Average day in balkan.

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Dragonagefanboy@reddit

Do you know that the word genocide was invented to describe what happened to the armenians

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Zulfiqarrr@reddit

Yes, it was

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SendMePicsOfMustard@reddit

Do you even know the definition of genocide?

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judgeafishatclimbing@reddit

I found the dumb genocide denier. Right here!

bayesian_horse@reddit

It's not genocide. The population of Palestinians has been increasing during this war. Do see a population decrease at all, you'd need to look at only Palestinians in Gaza and even then you need to specify only the first few months of the war, and they were killing a lot of Hamas terrorists in the earlier phase.

Hamas promising genocide against Israel, and refusing to capitulate or surrender, instead of hiding among women and children like the cowards they are makes this at worst a case of excessive self defense. War crimes alone doesn't make this a genocide, you need to prove a genocidal intent. And this intent is disproven by the simple fact that Israel has the military power to kill or even just remove most Palestinians from Gaza and they have not done so, instead they have been taking active measures to keep them alive.

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tsintsunami@reddit

Every normal human should have negative feelings towards Israel. Disgust would be more appropriate.

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Awkward_Alfalfa_8009@reddit

Jews have commited crimes against Greeks

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The difference I think is that most Turks just deny that genocide happened, rather than try to justify it. It’s more ignorance and blind faith in their nation than them being genocidal maniacs.

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Optimal_Catch6132@reddit

Ik not going to discuss about past events that can easily start a fight in comments but a genocide happened in 100 years ago and a genocide happens in today are waaay different. Back in the days being far right is normal or documenting something is hard. But today is different, no one gonna easily accept far right views and you cannot hide things easily from people. You can literally see what's happening in Gaza live if you want. It's very different situation with past because you know it's happening right know. Information about it is very accessable.

In this situation talking about past events is not gonna help anyone but other than starting fights.

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gamberro@reddit

I'd agree that in era of smartphones, live streaming, YouTube and a decentralised media, the evidence for genocide becomes overwhelming. You can quickly check or find videos of statements that are genocidal by Israelis. You can see evidence of killing everyday and clear attempts to destroy the population via starvation.

Having said all that, I don't think there is a difference between a genocide that happened 100 years ago and one today. At a minimum, people should know about them and the dangers of dehumanising a group of people (typically by regarding the whole group as a threat).

For the record, I'm not picking on Turkey. I think the Americans should remember the destruction of indigenous peoples as well as the Russians (like the Circassians).

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AgentBorn4289@reddit

Two countries with the two biggest fall offs in history. From Ottoman Empire and the great city states of Greece to third world kleptocracies. Who cares what they think?

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ShitassAintOverYet@reddit

Not surprising on our side.

gif

Another example of the victim bully. The only reason there were wars was the Arabs refusing to accept jewish immigration and committing massacres like in hebron. They then lose the wars they started and cry about it and demand all original borders. That's not how it works.

Why do they claim to be "refugees" if its their homeland?

Non Israeli Jews do, if an Israeli does that is theologically weird. Non Israeli Jews are the Diaspora refugees, an Israeli jew shouldn't call himself that.

Jewish people lived peacefully in the middle east until Zionism emerged.

That is absolute bullshit. They did not leave peacefully, they were opressed, massacred, humiliated, had children stolen, examples abound. That is why the Mizrahis all left for Israel.

Don't dare cite things like Yemenite affairs when Muslims stole Jewish children and had laws to force convert them to Islam in Yemen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans'_Decree

Arab Jew is seen as an offensive term. Mizrahi is the right identifier. But you wouldn't know, because you seem to not even know not to call a Jewish person from the Middle East "Arab".

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Sad-Broccoli@reddit

Non Israeli Jews are the Diaspora refugees

We could argue about whether Jewish people are "diaspora refugees" or not, but it's irrelevant. Israel doesn't have the right to massacre people to create an ethnostate.

Don't dare cite things like Yemenite affairs when Muslims stole Jewish children and had laws to force convert them to Islam in Yemen.

How does that justify the Nakba? What, so if Muslims stole Jewish children, then Israelis are allowed to steal children? If Jewish people were oppressed and massacred in the past, then Israel is allowed to do that to other people? How does that work?

Also, what does the Yemenite Children Affair have to do with Muslims? Zionists stole Yemeni Jewish children from their parents. This is another case of Jewish people being wronged and oppressed, but it wasn't because of Muslim people. It was Zionists that wronged these Jewish people.

That is absolute bullshit. They did not leave peacefully, they were opressed, massacred, humiliated, had children stolen, examples abound. That is why the Mizrahis all left for Israel.

Iraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: "I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee

"Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: "We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations."

And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: "I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists."

Historian Tom Segev stated: "Deciding to emigrate to Israel was often a very personal decision. It was based on the particular circumstances of the individual's life. They were not all poor, or 'dwellers in dark caves and smoking pits'. Nor were they always subject to persecution, repression or discrimination in their native lands. They emigrated for a variety of reasons, depending on the country, the time, the community, and the person."

Iraqi-born Israeli historian Avi Shlaim, speaking of the wave of Iraqi Jewish migration to Israel, concludes that, even though Iraqi Jews were "victims of the Israeli-Arab conflict", Iraqi Jews are not refugees, saying "nobody expelled us from Iraq, nobody told us that we were unwanted."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#Israeli_criticism_of_the_Jewish_Nakba_narrative

Arab Jew is seen as an offensive term. Mizrahi is the right identifier. But you wouldn't know, because you seem to not even know not to call a Jewish person from the Middle East "Arab".

Can you elaborate on why exactly this is so offensive to you or incorrect?

https://www.972mag.com/the-roots-of-anti-mizrahi-racism-in-israel/

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Dragunav@reddit

Rome changed the name from Judaea to Syria-Palaestina after the Roman-Jewish wars(revolts).
There has never been a sovereign Palestinian nation, or it might be one today but it hasn't controlled the land they've put a claim on.

So according to you, why doesn't the Jews belong in Palestine?

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deaddyfreddy@reddit

Idk, but i kmow they don't belong to Palestine

How about Iraq? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iraq

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gladiator-dev7@reddit

Iraq has explicitly stated in their laws that Jewish people are not allowed to return to Iraq

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deaddyfreddy@reddit

It's very convenient for them

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TXDobber@reddit

Yeah but what about the ones who were born and raised there… which is like most of them? You see, this mentality is literally no better than Israel’s psychos who want to see Palestinians genocided. This mentality keeps the conflict going. This is why Europeans should not care about this conflict… everybody involved is fucking delusional and psychotic.

And for the record, if there’s gonna be a one state solution, it’s gonna be an Israel with no Arabs, not a Palestine with no Jews. Israel has shown they can’t be beaten by the Arabs in a military fight… we have like six different examples of that now.

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Tensoll@reddit

This kind of mentality is why I, despite acknowledging that what Israel has been doing is plain evil, simply can’t feel any sympathy with Arabs. I feel bad for the children, it’s awful but otherwise I can’t in any way empathize with their “plight”. Arabs have done more conquering and genocide than almost any nation on the planet, but suddenly once an indigenous group seeks to establish a state of their own, willing to share the land with the people that live there, the Arabs from across all countries in the Arab world will go into immediate genocide mode, instead of giving up 0.2% of their total land area they conquered from another people in the first place. No surprise that when you put a nation (Jews in this case) in a neighbourhood like that, that nation itself will break and start mirroring their neighbours at some point

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Butterter@reddit

Bro, pls get out of social media. Go get some air maybe touch some grass.

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Sad_Secretary_7635@reddit

Wow you’re delusional.

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This is a section from the Balfour declaration "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Britain actively played a role in settling jews into the region

Britain never does anything without having an interest in it it was to gain support from various influential Jewish families because they believed jews had alot of money and that they would help them repair their economy after ww1 and have an ally in an hostile environment to protect the suez canal and the link with the indian colony

What mask? When did I say I was tolerant?

My ancestors threw the people you idolize in a mass grave. Smrt Fašizmu, svoboda narodu.

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dante_55_@reddit

You ended your comment by saying 'freedom to the nation'. How will your nation be free under the sharia law that will be implemented in a few decades?

You're so fixated on Nazis invading 60 years ago, that you're not noticing the muslim invasion happening right now

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Plastic_Self_8544@reddit

I also said death to fascism ;)

And muslisms aren't invading you fucking idiot.

Muslims aren't a hivemind with some great aim for conquest.

This is litterally the same propaganda that was said about the jews.

It was bullshit back then and it's bullshit now.

We fought back to back with our muslim comrades to eradicate fascism and we will fight back to back with our muslim comrades to eradicate fascism once more.

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dante_55_@reddit

-> Muslims aren't a hivemind with some great aim for conquest.

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/the-barbarian-invasion-of-our-time/

"The report, which was intended for the eyes of senior officials only, documents how the Brotherhood, a well-financed international Islamist organization, seeks to turn Western countries into sharia states, not through direct confrontation, but through a soft strategy of transformation from within"

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Plastic_Self_8544@reddit

Ah yes the most trustful source, a site called European conservative calling Muslims barbarians is sure to have valid information. This definetly isn't just pointless fear mongering in order to sell an agenda.

Seriously this is your proof? A te je foter po stopnicah vrgu k si se rodu?

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dante_55_@reddit

You're ignoring what's happening all around you, you're ignoring the sources i'm giving you. I'd ask you if you're worried at all that your kids will grow up in a country with sharia law, but people of your ideology don't really have kids so I guess that's not a problem for you

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Plastic_Self_8544@reddit

You only gave one source and it was from a shizoid conspiracy website.

I don't blindly believe in random bullshit I see online.

Besides how many muslims do you actually know?

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dante_55_@reddit

I don't form my opinions by things I see online. I form my opinions by taking a stroll downtown and seeing how my city centre has developed over the past 10-20 years.

Then I go online and notice that all the mainstream media is denying what I'm seeing with my own eyes and it's telling me I'm a fascist for noticing things.

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Texas seems good

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JudgmentCommon2397@reddit

put it in kansas

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deaddyfreddy@reddit

to go so we wouldn't have them in Europe

It's not only Europe. There are still many of them living in Europe (about 1.3 million), btw.

But don't forget that many Jews fled to Europe from Muslim and Arab countries. In some of those countries, the Jewish population dwindled to just a few people.

Would those countries want them back, with the return of all property and compensations. I think that's a rhetorical question.

Do you admit the xenocides you committed in the Balkans?

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SonrieAlaVida@reddit

Show me someone claiming that greeks did a genocide. If there is I would be down to look the facts.
The majority of the world believes the turks genocided the armenians and you're still denying it.

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fighter-bomber@reddit

Not keeping it limited to the Greeks, here is one.

As in, Greeks were involved in this, but weren’t the only ones involved.

And modern consensus also very much agrees that these did indeed happen.

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fyate@reddit

The majority of the world believes

you make a very good point. “people believes” and it doesnt necessarily coincide with the facts. we are in the post-truth age, facts dont matter, only who says it and who benefits from it.

but i will still give you a few sources you asked for. while greece may not have committed war crimes and massacres during the balkan wars compared to other league members, it is certainly not innocent before or after.

That Greece Might Still be Free: The Philhellenes in the War of Independence

crete

5
6

7

https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/carnegie/appendix_a.html

books.google

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SonrieAlaVida@reddit

If you go in Japan in today the people there believe that Japan didn't do any atrocities and war crimes in WW2. They've been taught this way and they have avoided paying reparations to countries that have suffered. The entire world has the facts straight however, you would agree the Japanese have commited atrocities, they don't agree. It's the same case with you lot. I never claimed greece are saints, some of the worst atrocities greek people have commited are against other greek people in our civil war. If they can do stuff like that to their own people they definitively can do them to slavs or anyone else. If someone comes forth and makes a case I'm willing to listen to it. You ppl have been declining that you committed genocide against the pontic people and the armenians for hundred of years. Everyone else is at wrong according to you and you aren't. Very similar behaviour to Japan.

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fyate@reddit

They've been taught this way

yeah, just like you were taught that we committed xenocide

my objection and that of many turks on this issue is all about definitions. and in addition to that, we are uncomfortable with this kind of thing being held over our heads politically as a stick. turkey may or may not have made some mistakes in the past, but we both know that this whole narrative is not purely a search for the truth in pure good faith.

for hundred of years

oh bro come on, how can you believe that the ottomans could rule other peoples for 600 years just by bullying them and using brute force? the natzis opressed everyone and collapsed in 12 years. the soviets collapsed in 70 years, the mongols survived for how many years, 100? and even america is not yet 250 years old.

and probably because you see the Turks as uncivilized people living in tents, dont you think it's ridiculous that people coming out of tents ruled the whole Byzantine geography for 600 years?

Everyone else is at wrong according to you and you aren't

I am not saying that we were perfect, even the king of Bosnia was wronged by Ottomans. I have the ethics to point out these mistakes, but what you say is based on bias or lies

one of the 10 stages of xenocide, which is an academic tool, is dehumanization, so that you can easily kill them as an animal without remorse because you no longer see them as human beings.

dehumanization has existed in Europe for centuries against the Jews and the Turks. Lame goebbels many times referred to the Jews as bedbugs, and the propaganda poster of soldiers killing a Turkish snake in the Balkan wars is quite famous. But I really dont know if there is a Turkish publication that dehumanizes the armenians.

In fact, I know that CUP, who allegedly committed the xenocide, often collaborated with the dashnak organization against Abdulhamit. but you know, the Balkan war must have created a great trauma for the Turks, because they realized that it was necessary to establish an ethnic state.

after centuries of dehumanization, the ethnic cleansing of more than 5 million turkish and other muslim people in the balkans, crimea and caucasus region between 1821-1922 is described as “colonizers returned home" and "nation states were established”, but when something similar happens in anatolia, it is described as xenocide. HYPOCRISY. in Greece, many mosques have been demolished, many villages have been renamed, but this is far from newsworthy. similar things have been done in Turkey, but it is only what the Turks do that is newsworthy.

even in my family tree, there are 5 people who were born in yerevan, the first one in 1869 and the last one in 1918. and no one is interested in how and why these people came from yerevan to turkey. however in 1920, a group led by general osebyan attacked my family's village, killed 29 people and extorted hundreds of animals.

furthermore, by the 18th century, the ottoman state didnt have the state capacity to deliberately carry out such massacres. most of the time, the sultan's word and order was only valid in istanbul. at one point, there was an attempt to patent the telegraph, but it was blocked by those who didnt want it.

One comment section on a Fenerbahce vs Panathinaikos

Im not a Fenerbahce fan, so the idiocies of those idiots dont bind me. you dont obey the laws of war, but you expect the other side to obey them? before you say more, please take a look at the links I have provided. because one of them was about a telegrapher's memoirs of war crimes that he witnessed.

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SahinKama@reddit

we are uncomfortable with this kind of thing being held over our heads politically as a stick.

Armenian genocide is a political statement, there were genocides before it happened. What is different about that is in those events is Christians were killed. That's the difference. Muslim or African lives doesn't matter. Christians lives matter for the European "civilisation".

They find "moral high ground" and a "just" cause to fight Turkey with. Because Turkey is a strong power that needs to be kept in check.

It works very well tho. They can even cover up their atrocities while blaming turkey and japan xd.

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SahinKama@reddit

Japan, in fact accepts ww2 crimes. You are probably brainwashed.

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SonrieAlaVida@reddit

And you are also full of pride for the genocides you commited so I have no idea what you're even arguing. Greece tried to take Smyrna by force and lost and instead of taking it out on the military or something you people threw women and kids in the waters to swim and you're proud of that in 2025. One comment section on a Fenerbahce vs Panathinaikos basketball match on instagram and everything is there.

ChanvaX1@reddit

I've been on Chinese social media (don't know if i can mention the names on this sub) and people there were all pretty diehard anti israel.

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ManOfAksai@reddit

To be fair, I'm mostly referring to South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan.

If you're neutral you would accept that Israel was attacked and wants to eradicate Hamas. You'd need to acknowledge that Hamas not surrendering excuses a lot of what Israel does, even though it doesn't excuse everything.

You would need to acknowledge that Israel has committed war crimes, but no genocide, and that the atrocities and honorless methods of Hamas can't be called genocide or war crimes, because they don't accept these rules in the first place. Hamas only ever kills soldiers by accident, they target civilians almost exclusively.

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hahalmaojokes@reddit

fuck israel. amount of kids dead makes their claim extremely weak

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bayesian_horse@reddit

Hamas could have surrendered. That would have meant they and their civilians survived. Instead, Hamas hides behind women and children and they do their very best to maximize suffering of their own civilians.

Hamas recruited children as suicide bombers. They killed women, children and foreigners on October 7th. They are the last ones I listen to when they complain about children suffering.

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OrdinaryEstate5530@reddit

Yes, Hamas could surrender and release 50 hostages. But as of now they’re not doing it and Israel is using war tactics that are atrocious and do not justify the means.

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bayesian_horse@reddit

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Urara_89@reddit

"What Harms Moesleem we Saapport, Saaarrr...."

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bayesian_horse@reddit

Muslims harm Muslims.

The biggest problem for Palestinians in Gaza isn't Israel, it's Hamas.

If Hamas had surrendered at any time since starting the current round of violence with October 7th, even most Hamas terrorists would have survived, as well as the civilians they claim they fight for. Instead those cowards hide among women and children to maximize their suffering and to make stupid people all over the world have a better reason to hate Israel.

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GuideMwit@reddit

The second Hamas hand over all hostages, it will be a full-scale invasion by IDF. Trust me. Even when the zionist sign a guarantee.

Look ar how they backstabbed Syria immediately when the government changed.

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bayesian_horse@reddit

A lot of bullshit to unpack there...

First: Israel didn't backstab Syria at all, that was completely an attack from the front and with entirely legitimate reasons. And the new Islamist anti-freedom terrorist militia that took over the Syrian government has a long history of demanding Israel to be destroyed and a genocide to be committed against the Jewish people. That gives Israel all the moral justification and certainly all the reason to destroy military equipment that could be turned against Israeli civilians.

A pro tip to Muslim militias: Don't declare war against a far smarter and stronger enemy and then bitch and whine about that stronger enemy whooping your asses.

There has already been a full-scale invasion to Syria plenty of times. It's also Israeli policy to not let the terrorists benefit from keeping the hostages, and they don't stay invasions or military actions. They know that Hamas mistreats and rapes their hostages.

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GuideMwit@reddit

No. Israel officially stated that the Syrian ceasefire was voided because Syrian government had “changed”.

Basically they just tear apart the legal-binding document when they saw the opportunity.

And what about the West Bank? Also Muslim settlers throwing out Palestinians from their homes and killing them while the IDF looks away?

Facts, lol

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Mestintrela@reddit

I was friends with Greek Jews and Greek-Israelites and have been to feasts and celebrations.

I even am acquaintances with some greek israelites who moved to become west bank settlers and lived in these communals..they were attacked on 7th October (without victims).

With all that said..only a heartless and blind person would support Israel.

In war atrocities and crimes usually happen from both sides but Israel has reached the point that it even rampantly mass murders red crescent workers and then denies it.

They are no different than Russia.

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One-Salamander-1952@reddit

I’m sure it’s easy to view it this way but considering the circumstances… I’m sure when all is said and done Israel’s actions will be proven for what they are which is - not committing a genocide.

The reality when you have to fight a jihadist organization that does not view deaths from their own side as a net negative and is ready to use it to their advantage is grim, that alongside the fact that no country in the vicinity was ready to give a helping hand and help Gazans take temporary shelter away from the fighting in extremely dense urban environments just puts Israel in an impossible situation where even with the dropped fliers from planes providing warnings and guidance of where to seek shelter, even with voice calls, private messages and warning strikes with duds (roof knocking) you will still have civilian casualties. 25,000 civilians is no joking matter but tryin to paint it as ‘genocide’ is disrespectful to actual genocides where there was a clear intent and succession at it.

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Sad-Broccoli@reddit

I’m sure when all is said and done Israel’s actions will be proven for what they are which is - not committing a genocide.

A genocide is unfolding before our eyes: History will not forgive our inaction, UN Special Committee warns General Assembly 4th Committee report

Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza

Extermination and Acts of Genocide Israel Deliberately Depriving Palestinians in Gaza of Water - Human Rights Watch

UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war

The reality when you have to fight a jihadist organization

Lol

that does not view deaths from their own side as a net negative and is ready to use it to their advantage is grim

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

that alongside the fact that no country in the vicinity was ready to give a helping hand and help Gazans take temporary shelter away from the fighting in extremely dense urban environments

This is a N*zis talking point....

just puts Israel in an impossible situation where even with the dropped fliers from planes providing warnings and guidance of where to seek shelter, even with voice calls, private messages and warning strikes with duds (roof knocking) you will still have civilian casualties.

They followed evacuation orders. An Israeli airstrike killed them the next day.

"Visual Evidence Shows Israel Dropped 2,000-Pound Bombs Where It Ordered Gaza's Civilians to Move for Safety"

Israeli forces attack ‘safe zones’ in Rafah

Israel has struck at least three locations in Gaza to which it had ordered civilians to evacuate

25,000 civilians is no joking matter but tryin to paint it as ‘genocide’ is disrespectful to actual genocides where there was a clear intent and succession at it.

Where did you get 25,000 from?

As of June 4, 2025, 54,607 Palestinians have been reported killed in Gaza

Gaza death toll has been significantly underreported, study finds

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One-Salamander-1952@reddit

“Israel dropped 2,000 pound bombs on safe zones”

Israel has targeted Hamas command centers embedded in civilian zones, because Hamas deliberately places them there. The tragedy of civilian deaths lies entirely at the feet of a terror group that uses human beings as shields. War is messy, especially in densely populated areas where the enemy wants civilians to die for PR wins. That’s not genocide, it’s tactical warfare against monsters.

“54,000 dead in Gaza”

This number comes from Hamas’ own health ministry, which does not distinguish between terrorists and civilians. Even they admitted over 15,000 fighters had been killed months ago and that number is likely much higher now.

recent studies have also revealed that many deaths were double counted or inflated to create outrage.

“Israel attacks safe zones”

Hamas places rocket launchers and tunnels in those very zones, violating every norm of international law. If Israel ignored those sites, it would be abandoning its own citizens to future attacks. No country on Earth would tolerate that, and yet Israel is expected to do so under threat of being labeled genocidal?

“Hannibal Directive”

The Hannibal Directive was a military policy (no longer in effect) meant to prevent soldier kidnappings, not to harm civilians en masse. Misrepresenting it to imply Israel kills its own or Palestinian civilians intentionally is a gross twisting of facts.

No other military goes to the lengths Israel does to minimize civilian harm - flyers, roof knocks, evacuation corridors, drone surveillance for real time adjustments all while its enemies hide behind babies and hospitals. If you’re truly concerned about Palestinian lives, start by condemning Hamas for starting this war, for hiding behind civilians, for building a terror empire on the bones of its own people, and for rejecting every single ceasefire proposal unless it came with total immunity and total victory.

“Amnesty and Human Rights Watch say it’s genocide”

These groups have a long track record of disproportionate scrutiny and bias against Israel. Amnesty has been accused even by its own staff of antisemitic rhetoric and double standards. Quoting their reports as objective truth is intellectually dishonest.

“UN Special Committee says it’s genocide”

This committee is not impartial. The UN has a documented obsession with Israel. Dozens of resolutions against the only democracy in the Middle East, while actual genocides in Syria, Iran, Yemen, and China go largely untouched. The committee you cite includes states with horrendous human rights records, hardly moral authorities.

As I said before, when all will be said and done.. the truth will be clear and you will have to keep twisting it to stay relevant, because you don’t actually care for Palestinians… you just care about hating Israel.

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No_Earth2278@reddit

You shouldn't compare war with genocide.

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No-Insurance100@reddit

Civilian casualties in Ukraine are a tiny fraction of overall casualties. Compare that to Palestine or what the US did to Iraq

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Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit

\~120,000 civilians died in Mariupol alone. You can see the mass graves on Google Earth.

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No-Insurance100@reddit

There's zero independent proof of that. The city was largely evacuated of civilians before the battle. It makes no sense for Russia to massacre people it considers to be Russian. If they had a grudge against Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians they could carpet bomb Lviv, which they haven't

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Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit

There's zero independent proof of that.

Aside from the satellite photos of the mass graves?

The city was largely evacuated of civilians before the battle.

No it wasn't, there was no time to evacuate before it was enveloped by the Russian Army.

It makes no sense for Russia to massacre people it considers to be Russian.

Russia does not care about the lives of people it considers to be Russian. Note how they conscripted the men of the former DPR and LPR and expended tens of thousands of them to fix the Ukrainian Army in the East for a few months.

If they had a grudge against Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians they could carpet bomb Lviv, which they haven't

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Oha_its_shiny@reddit

some greek israelites who moved to become west bank settlers and lived in these communals..they were attacked on 7th October

In Greece, only 39% are clearly "against Israel", which is way smaller than recent measures of islamophobic attitudes in the same society, and I think it represents the leftist part of Greece, combined with 2nd generation immigrants from the middle east, that have gained Greek citizenship (Egyptians, Syrians etc). The other 33% of "somewhat unfavorable" are people with an attitude like "ok Israel has the right to defend its borders, but this defence has gone too long", which is logical, and then of course you hve another 23% that is favorable

2024-2025@reddit

Why shouldn’t people care? That’s the worst argument I know, making people careless and uneducated is nothing to be proud of.

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TXDobber@reddit

Care about things that affect you and/or that you have control of. There’s nothing good happening in Gaza, why destroy your brain by focusing so much energy and time on such a terrible conflict where everybody involved is hateful and violent? Focus on better more important things that don’t destroy your mental health or leads you to becoming radically antisemitic or anti-Arab.

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Butterter@reddit

Omg the british man who his country started all the conflict spoke from 4000km away while the conflict is in our doorstep. No one is obsessed with this conflict apart from the Palestines and Israelis. I agree on not being anti-semitic or anti-Arab but this post being here is normal.

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DDDX_cro@reddit

you act as if the guillotine never got invented.

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vbd71@reddit

Only speculating... their Christianity is quite Evangelical, just like in the USA, and these tend to support Israel. Also, people from a large Nigerian ethnicity, the Igbo, sometimes claim descendance from a lost tribe of Israel (yeah, seriously, lol). No idea if this plays any role or not.

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ChanvaX1@reddit

I guess same reason as India.

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SonrieAlaVida@reddit

Likely lack of knowledge and not many choices to get your news from.

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SirPansalot@reddit

They along with their greater part of humanity, lmao

Lol. The same Benny Morris that is a Pro-Israeli fatalist? The fact that he recognises that Israel is committing war crimes now doesn’t change the fact that he believes the issue is with Netanyahu and not that Israel is and has been an apartheid settler colonial state since it’s inception. When discussing bias (while saying that Finkelstein is heavily biased) and then naming another equally biased person on the other side as a ”neutral” is disingenuous. It’s like claiming that US liberals are neutral when they objectively aren’t.

He doesn’t believe in any solution, not one-state, nor two-state, and seems to believe that the best way for this to play out is war ad infinitum until one of them is wiped out.

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PrettyChillHotPepper@reddit

Israel is and has been an apartheid settler colonial state since it’s inception

Yeah, that's not exactly unbiased. Palestine has never existed as independent country and Israel's territory is the Jewish homeland.

If you have these beliefs, you likely wish for Israel's destruction, which is an extremist point of view.

Last I checked, Benny is a two state solution supporter. Dismantling Israel isn't a solution anyone will entertain.

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kubiozadolektiv@reddit

And I never claimed I am unbiased. What you quoted me on is a historical and current fact, my bias is irrelevant to that. Palestine’s legality as an official state is also irrelevant, as it has been occupied by different colonial powers in successive centuries. Ottomans, the brits, now Israel (and by extension, the US). It has during this time had it’s official borders, a distinct culture, multiple languages (arabic & hebrew and some minority languages) that are not of it’s occupiers origins (except hebrew now of course, but hebrew didn’t come with the colonisers), their own governments (as much as it was allowed) and their own flag with an indigenous people (palestinians of all religions, jews, christians, muslims). By all accounts of what constitutes an official state, they are one with the exception of legality, because of the allies of the occupier(s). It doesn’t matter anyway if they were an official state or not, the land has had it’s indigenous inhabitants there for consecutive millennia and it wasn’t Britain’s to give away.

I do wish for the destruction of the apartheid colonial state, but not the destruction of jews if that’s what you’re implying. I want an end to the apartheid, to the kidnappings and unlawful imprisonments. I want an end to the occupation, annexation and settler oppression. I want an end to the genocide.

There is no two-state solution, and any ”offer” by Israel has been a spit in the face to the Palestinian people. Have you never wondered why it’s always mentioned how many offers have been rejected by the Palestinians, but that it’s never mentioned what those offers entailed in detail?

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PrettyChillHotPepper@reddit

Dude, the last time that patch of land was an independent state, it was called Israel...

Israel 2.0 is the new iteration. It has 21% Arab Muslims as citizens. It's the rebirth of the only independent state that area has known. Palestine didn't even have a flag until the 1920s.

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kubiozadolektiv@reddit

As I said, the legal independence doesn’t matter as much as the history of the people on the land. States as defined today is a relatively new concept. Israel 2000 years ago is irrelevant when talking statehood in a modern sense. Would you claim that the vast number of kingdoms during human history all have a claim to an own state today, because they used to be a loosely formed nation 500-1000-1500 years ago?

Okay. 1) Why would arab israelis be an argument for the apartheid colonial settler state? 2) As I stated above, 2000 years ago doesn’t matter. Palestinians, jewish, muslim and christians are just as indigenous to the area as the israelis, even more so than for example European Jews. Many of them have converted back and forth for millennia during different conquests, and their religion doesn’t constitute a change in the demographics of ethnicity. 3) So the Palestinians have had a flag for longer than the state of Israel has existed?

Israel, as much as the Brits and the Ottomans are the colonisers in a relevant sense. The ethnic groups have pretty much stayed the same, and the Arab conquest of the 7th century is as much irrelevant as the Israel of 2 millennia ago. Arabs maybe changed the religion of the people, as did the European crusades, but the people are generally the same since the Canaanites.

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PrettyChillHotPepper@reddit

Romania wasn’t a state before the Ottomans.

Correct, it was 3 separate states. Romanianness as an identity arose in the 7th century.

If Turks moved in en masse, because Arabs committed a genocide against them, would you be alright with them claiming your land as their own?

This isn't the Turkish homeland. They can find refuge in their own ancestral land, this one is the native land of a different nation.

Why would arab israelis be an argument against the apartheid colonial settler state? If anything, it is an argument for it being a colonial settler state.

Because Israeli Arab citizens are equal - and a state has no duties towards people that aren't its citizens.

So the Palestinians have had a flag for longer than the state of Israel has existed?

The nation of Israel as a concept with a flag existed for 2000 years. Palestinian identity was not separate from Arab identity until 100 years ago.

Cannanite DNA (too lazy to copy the whole paragraph you typed)

You will be surprised to learn then that Jews have Canaanite DNA as well. If you ask me for my utopic solution, I'd convert the Palestinians back to Judaism and give them all citizenship afterwards. But that's why I do not support the current government...

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kubiozadolektiv@reddit

Correct, it was 3 separate states. Romanianness as an identity arose in the 7th century.

Again, there weren’t states as defined today, at that time. Kingdoms of 1000 or more years ago can not lay claim to land today, especially if they haven’t inhabited the area for centuries or as in Israel’s case, millennia. There have been jewish inhabitants in Palestine consecutively, but the European Jews have not and their religion does not constitute a claim to that land.

This isn't the Turkish homeland. They can find refuge in their own ancestral land, this one is the native land of a different nation.

And Israel isn’t Europeans homeland either, jewish or not.

Because Israeli Arab citizens are equal - and a state has no duties towards people that aren't its citizens.

They are not equal, lmao. They can’t visit relatives in the West Bank for example without multiple checks, while jewish Israelis can go there very freely. And yes, it absolutely does, even by international law, if it occupies land that isn’t within their own borders, which they de facto do with Gaza and the West Bank. They control land, air and sea, all imports and exports to and from Palestine. They control Palestine’s water and electricity. That makes them a de facto occupier and therefore by international law are obliged to provide for their subjects.

The nation of Israel as a concept with a flag existed for 2000 years. Palestinian identity was not separate from Arab identity until 100 years ago.

Israel’s flag is about 30 years older than that of the Palestinians.

You will be surprised to learn then that Jews have Canaanite DNA as well. If you ask me for my utopic solution, I'd convert the Palestinians back to Judaism and give them all citizenship afterwards. But that's why I do not support the current government...

He's Jewish, his knowledge on the topics is influenced by his education and not by his family connections or ethnicity. Finkelstein has been debunked by better scholars supporting the same positions as him time and time again - the man who he calls "his greatest inspiration" called Finkelstein's work a fraud.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein

His tenure bid was rejected due to his shoddy scholarship, not due to his ethnicity or political positions.

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Gauss-JordanMatrix@reddit

He's Jewish, yes, but his knowledge on the topics is influenced by his education and not by his family connections or ethnicity.

Obviously, which is a good thing because he holds a PhD from Princeton and has skin in the game in the sense that he's a jewish holocaust survivor descent hence more likely to support Israel statistically which given his position on the matter, makes him even more credible.

Finkelstein has been debunked by better scholars supporting the same positions as him time and time again

What? I didn't watch every single one of his debates, but one he had with Benny Morris (who's also an extremely influential academic who uncovered atrocities committed by Israel only to later on spent rest of his career minimizing his findings) and he literally destroyed him.

His tenure bid was rejected due to his shoddy scholarship, not due to his ethnicity or political positions.

Yeah, I don't believe that.
Getting tenured is extremely hard and involves networking, politics, luck, and all sorts of things. Your claim is impossible to prove.

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realquidos@reddit

Muslims

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DeDullaz@reddit

Aegeansunset12@reddit

True, the difference you pointed out is significant

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Annalise77@reddit

I don't understand this stance, Palestine = Muslim = bad, or any other Arab state for that matter, while Orthodox Christians are being systematically wiped out of the region on purpose by Israel. Homes, history, churches, the whole of them. They already succeeded in Golan Heights in Syria, and they are attacking them daily in Lebanon, specifically targeting Christian churches and schools.

And even if they are Muslim, or any religion /non-religion, no group of people should ever endure what Israel's neighbors did and are still enduring for the last 77 years, just like what happened in Egypt last century.

Hamas hides behind civilians, while it's Israel's bombs, choices and decisions that come in effect to massacre those civilians, and destroy the country completely. It is on them only that war crimes are being committed daily.

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Aegeansunset12@reddit

Hamas hides behind civilians, while it's Israel's bombs, choices and decisions that come in effect to massacre those civilians, and destroy the country completely. It is on them only that war crimes are being committed daily.

Excuse me but again they’re literally using their citizens as a shield and their leaders waste humanitarian aid money to have a luxury lifestyle in Dubai. Also, Egypt has been blocking access to their borders and let their Muslim bros suffer, there’s lots of nuance and at the end of the day it’s war so everyone’s involved fault.

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SonrieAlaVida@reddit

Their leaders have legit died one after the other idk where you're getting your info. Right now there's thousands of trucks full of humanitarian aid blocked by Israel from entering the Gaza strip. The humanitarian aid is going there, it's just not allowed in.

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BestZucchini5995@reddit

Btw, would you mind checking were are the Christians numbers dwindling in the Middle East ;)? At least, Israel vs. Plastelinian Authority/Gaza?!

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Annalise77@reddit

Sure, it takes 2 seconds, you get only bazillion results, but this is the most recent one: "The few who do make it to the Old City have been met with increased police brutality in recent years. In April 2023, Palestinian Christian worshipers and international pilgrims were beaten by Israeli police and armed forces as they attempted to reach the Church of the Holy Sepulchre."

Crazy-Leading-9795@reddit

Aren't you the "government won't spend our taxes on us so what if it goes to gaza?" when people are killing themselves over not being able to provide food to their families WITHIN OUR OWN COUNTRY??? Do you remember that brilliant take??

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Maleficent-Menu1133@reddit

Hahaha no, I said that taxes should benefit our business first, but the issue there is not just about taxes, and you still haven't understood. You are the person talking about taxes under a video showing Israel taking the aid sent to Gaza by your government and throwing it in the F*cking trash. Also, aren't you the kid who said "10/10 photo, I support it" when I showed you the picture below?

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Crazy-Leading-9795@reddit

Satire is one of my virtues. Backstabbing your own people is yours. Also, remember 'Bu saatten sonra a*p gitse nolur gitmese nolur'. Go home Faho, just go home.

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Maleficent-Menu1133@reddit

Yeah backstabing my people sure. Also you are saying faho to is beyond ironic.

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Crazy-Leading-9795@reddit

Your own people are suffering. Our currency has been devalued, our institutions have been tarnished and our lives have been ruined. You're telling me that it's not a big deal if we're paying for your supreme leader's caliphate fetish as long as it goes to people you have a sympathy towards. You don't even care if he leaves or stays. You don't care about anything relating to your own country.

It's been 23 years. Your indifference is a stance.

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Maleficent-Menu1133@reddit

I alredy waste of enough time by dealing with you in turkey subreddit. You cant Even understand why ı write that sentence. You cant understand anything. You just cant. Sadge

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RobinBerkeAlmasulu@reddit

Yes, obviously a lot of secular/non-muslim people hate Israel as well. But let's be honest, the biggest reason is the vast majority of population still being Muslims, pro-Palestine propagandas and the closer proximity to the conflict.

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Maleficent-Menu1133@reddit

Not The only reason tho.

In the early days when the war first started, there were a lot of pro-Israeli people among the Turks. And believe it or not, unfortunately, there are still some, but thankfully their numbers are not large. If we need to list the reasons for this, it would require a whole paragraph, but in a nutsell reasons are the policies and history of Palestine against the Turks, and of course, the general hatred towards Arabs. However, in recent times, even these people have entered the "okay, this is too much" mode.

Like just saying "they are Muslims bro that's why" is wrong mindset. As if like Christians hates palestine.

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RobinBerkeAlmasulu@reddit

Left naturally hates Israel as they don’t tolerate expansionism and apartheid states.

Pfft.

The only reason why they hate Israel is because it's backed by America.

If it were the reverse (as it was until around 1960) they would be all pro-Israel.

And guess what? That's actually what happened, lefties tended to be fervent Zionists until America took Israel's side and PLO began branding itself as left-wing.

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Kaamos_666@reddit

Your own article explains why. Left supports underdog. And this behavioral change is just the proof that they sticked with their principles.

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-Against-All-Gods-@reddit

Is that why left supports Russia over Ukraine?

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Kaamos_666@reddit

I’m left and I support Ukraine. I am not a minority. Left is split about this. And their understanding of this topic is not too wrong either. (The anti NATO expansionism argument…) But it’s not fair that they turn a blind eye to human rights violations, civilian death, and actual invasion…

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Futski@reddit

And their understanding of this topic is not too wrong either. (The anti NATO expansionism argument…)

It is though. Russia should not choose foreign politics of their neighbours. Just like the US shouldn't decide the foreign politics of Mexico, Canada or Cuba.

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Kaamos_666@reddit

I think so. But it is impossible for me to ignore how NATO acts as the facilitator of US overseas geopolitical ambitions. We all speak about how Russia tried to interfere with Ukrainian politics for years with funded politicians and media organs. But we seem to omit the US intelligence activities in the region, easily. Because that’s convenient. It was obvious that USA didn’t like a non-collaborating Russia in the region and started using each and every instrument to make them break and become a lapdog of America just like how my country is one. But of course, military activity is an unproportional response to that. Russia might be right at some point, but then it all ended with annexation of Crimea.

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Futski@reddit

But we seem to omit the US intelligence activities in the region, easily. Because that’s convenient.

Or what if people are just receptive to anyone who provides a shield against a neighbourhood bully?

Would you consider Cuba's alignment with the Soviet Union a product of Soviet meddling?

Of course not. So why is it different when it's Ukraine?

Its insinuating that Ukrainians have no free will of their own, but are simply mindless drones following American command.

It was obvious that USA didn’t like a non-collaborating Russia in the region and started using each and every instrument to make them break and become a lapdog of America just like how my country is one

This theory falls to the ground when you consider how badly America's brand has devalued since November. If America was this all powerful entity, all of Europe wouldn't be taking about strategic autonomy.

Russia might be right at some point, but then it all ended with annexation of Crimea.

Putin's ambition is transparently clear, he has always wanted to win back the 'lost' land, be it Ukraine, Baltics, Moldova, Caucasus. Preferably directly if possible, but elsewise, through a series of Lukashenka like figures.

(I don’t know why they keep electing central right though

Because someone actually needs to govern at the end of the day.

Left naturally hates Israel as they don’t tolerate expansionism and apartheid states.

SavvasoAdamides@reddit

No way. In Greece we support Israel. We don’t like the way they chose to deal with the terrorist state of Hamas but that’s just inaccurate.

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Maleficent-Menu1133@reddit

Silemem bro.

İsmini sansürliyim istersen.

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fyate@reddit

Ok

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Sad-Fix-2385@reddit

You’re sure? I would be surprised if more than 5-10 % of all Muslims globally would favor Israel over Palestine, even if they asked directly after the Hamas attack. Children spitting on the violated bodies of murdered rape victims and people celebrating in the streets all over the world were a bit too much for me personally. Just ask yourself how you would act if roles were reversed, I don’t see any people celebrating Israel bombing the Gaza Strip.

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life_hacker_14@reddit

whataboutism explained

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O_Grande_Turco@reddit

As it should be.

BestZucchini5995@reddit

Your generals and chief-spies, Attaturkopoulos ;)

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Effective_Cold7634@reddit

Nigerians do .

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dalegribble__96@reddit

I’ve said before on here, any person in the Balkans (considering the history of genocides and war crimes here) with a favourable view of Israel is nothing more than a complete idiot

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Crazy-Leading-9795@reddit

Wait, aren't you the same person who shared videos of Syrians going back to visit family members of Eid as if they were returning home for good? You only took it down after you got 40 comments saying it was deceptive. What's with the obsession?

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I am Turk.

That is called common sense, what are we & Greeks were supposed to do, give a pat on the back for bombing hospitals & mass killing innocent?

This account exhibits one or two minor traits commonly found in karma farming bots. While it's possible that u/HrvatskiNoahid is a bot, it's very unlikely.

Raccoons-for-all@reddit

Likely the methodology of that one here is not representative

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Albon123@reddit

I think most people who answered are the ones who care about the Israel-Palestine conflict, which is not the majority in the country

Most people have their everyday problems, plus the absolute polarised politics nowadays that concern them. Most people who make an opinion about this probably integrate it into their political opinions (Orbán supports Netanyahu, but I don’t like Orbán, so Netanyahu bad, therefore current Israel bad - and vice-versa).

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stefavag@reddit

Genocide is bad and this is definitely genocide.

What disappoints me the most is that Israel's actions are supported by a majority of its citizens, as far as I have seen, it is not just political.

I hope this gets labelled correctly on history books in the future and justice is served.

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Raccoons-for-all@reddit

Funny that Turkey, which may be the most similar country to Israel of them all, is the most virulent about it

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Hazard___7@reddit

fyate@reddit

%4 based

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SwanPuzzleheaded5871@reddit

It is expected. But like you can’t support Israel here without being lynched, even saying “i don’t really support any sides” is a little bit dangerous. So i would assume if there is any pro-israel people here they won’t openly express their beliefs in that conflict.

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BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)

Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/06/03/most-people-across-24-surveyed-countries-have-negative-views-of-israel-and-netanyahu/