Question: Which American Domestic Cars (trim level maybe) would you consider as being an Enthusiast's Car off the line or lot?

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Herr_Tilke@reddit

The C8 Corvette in any trim level is an extremely capable performance car. The Z06 is faster than just about any super car from 20 years ago. The ZR1 is on par with the fastest production cars on the planet. The Mustang GT remains the standard of performance for American buyers, and is by all accounts a fun car to drive. But you are right, the number of options continues to decrease every year.

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TheDirtDude117@reddit

The C8 really does need the Z51 Package to be a performance car in my opinion The standard model is a capable car but it doesn't have the shocks, the brakes, the grip, or the cooling to really take advantage of everything on a track day.

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OtterCreek_Andrew@reddit

You’re getting downvoted by people who don’t have a C8, will never have a c8 and have never driven a C8. But you’re correct

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TheDirtDude117@reddit

Yeah I have driven them only at CMP, Autocross at Michelin LPG, and 20k miles. They are a good car until you drive a C8 Z51

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SpaceghostLos@reddit

Yes. Let it fly in 3rd gear! The paddle shifters for the 10 speeds arent bad but too slow for me. I like the power between my legs to be immediate. Or something.

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aftonone@reddit

SS, obviously. When you make an SS version of an economy shit box and it sets records for fastest FWD laptimes around the Nurburgring, you know they aren’t messing around.

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OoIIoO@reddit

Counterpoint: Chevy Malibu Maxx SS

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aftonone@reddit

lol alright you got me there. I forgot about that monstrosity

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hurricanePopsicles@reddit

Everyone of the fastest FWD cars are economy shitboxes

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aftonone@reddit

Yep. But it was still faster than the WRX, 350Z, Audi S5, SL55 AMG, VW Golf, Mazdaspeed 3, Lotus Exige S, and still faster than newer cars like the Fiesta/Focus ST, GR86 and Carrera RS.

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chrisp-baconn@reddit

C8 corvette

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408jay@reddit

My mid-range Tesla Model 3 runs 12 second quarters. The somewhat more expensive Performance trim runs high tens or low elevens.

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ubermorph@reddit

The model 3 might be the least enthusiast oriented vehicle for its speed on the market.

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408jay@reddit

A lot of people say things like that. I have had v8 mustangs, a couple Miata including a lowered NB with a supercharger and in many ways the Model 3 is one of the best drivers cars. 4wd for all weather traction, good steering feel, excellent chassis and it is always in the right gear and never do you get caught "between gears" on the one corner. Some equate electric to automatic, but it simply doesn;t work like that. Electric with aggressive regen braking is a lot more like a big block that is always in the right gear that doesn't vibrate, shudder or need oil changes. Yes there is some charm to stuff that makes a lot of noise - my other vehicle is a tuned ZX14R so I get that, but I have a great time in the twisties with the various Model 3s I have had.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

Any 1LE or Blackwing chevy product.

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ChuckoRuckus@reddit

I’d also say that the LT1 Camaro (not to be confused with the 1LT) has a strong chance to be owned by an enthusiast. It’s the lowest version V8 Camaro (iow, cheapest), even below the SS. There’s a strong likelihood the person that buys it plans to modify it. No sense in getting the SS suspension if you’re planning to swap it out.

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OoIIoO@reddit

Such a good answer.

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Mojave_Idiot@reddit

Every single Camaro from 2016 on along with most alpha platform vehicles in general will dynamically run circles around basically everything at their price point.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

I believe to this day the 4-cyl 1LE is the fastest "ll1" (i.e. sub-40k) car on c&d lightning laps that includes beating out a 997 911 turbo, RCF, current elantra n (thats 5 yrs difference in tyre tech) and a 2016 miata cup car. Feels every bit of that time too. Fantastic and somewhat underrated car. Sure it's ugly, but that means you can pick it up for even cheaper.

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randeus@reddit

>Genuinely, I’d rather have that car in v6 1le form than any V8 trim C’mon now.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

im not much of a v8 guy in general. i prefer the i6 s-class as well

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randeus@reddit

It’s a V6.

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Koil_ting@reddit

As a general statement the V8 is a better motor for a performance oriented vehicle, however it isn't worse in every way. For example that's two or four less spark plugs to swap out (depending on one or two plugs per cylinder) and a greater distance between the fan belt in the radiator for hands or tools to fit in.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

apart from the subjective it also takes regular instead of premium

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randeus@reddit

The Coyote can take regular fuel. I imagine the LT1 can too.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

manual says premium, any car can take regular if you want it to. will it detune itself and be fine? probably. i’d still rather have the v6 though

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randeus@reddit

With these engines, it absolutely does no harm. It only slightly hurts performance. I put premium in for longevity, but I never really noticed it running any different when I used regular.

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BTTWchungus@reddit

I'd rather have a V8 as well, but the V6 makes the case for being usable as a daily driver (less power + cheaper consumables)

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randeus@reddit

Sure, but just get another sports car that’s not meant to be a v8 if that’s a concern and take advantage of a truly lighter chassis. But I’m kinda of a bit of a I4/v6 muscle/pony car hater who would never touch one as long as the v8 exists, even though I do appreciate the fact they exist and they support the v8’s existence

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BTTWchungus@reddit

Honestly, it sucks we don't have much midground between the Miata and the fatass muscle cars. All that could count are the 86 twins and the Supra (Nissan Z used be the go-to here before Nissan lost the plot)

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SirLoremIpsum@reddit

Randy Probst got a four cylinder Camaro and absolutely everywhere I see he talks it up like nobodies business. A man that's driven everything to drive and he's huge fan. Good enough for me if I ever was in the market.

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GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit

> Randy Probst got a four cylinder Camaro and absolutely everywhere I see he talks it up like nobodies business. Its good for the price, but it's not hanging with anything marginally more expensive like the 4 cylinder Supra or Civic Type R. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ycdXvBhJgw) he is putting his own I4 1LE against a base model Cayman and it gets its ass kicked.

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GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit

> Genuinely, I'd rather have that car in v6 1le form than any V8 trim. And swap on the LT1 base bumper Why? The 1LE package for the V6/I4 are nowhere near as comprehensive as it is on the SS and ZL1. It basically adds like 3/4 of the base model SS parts, so you're paying SS prices for no V8 and many downgraded parts like smaller wheels and the cheaper TR-3160 transmission. It doesn't have magneride, eLSD, 6 piston brakes, extra cooling and all the good stuff that makes the SS 1LE what it is. Unless you literally only want it for autocross it's a downgrade from the SS.

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xlb250@reddit

The biggest downside was that you could get a V8 for not much more.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

sadly yeah. I mean in theory it was 33k for a v6 1le, then another 4k for the ss, and another 7k more for the 1le edition of that. so it feels like good value but the v8 1le had different equipment, the lt1 existed, realistically it was impossible to find a base model v6 1le, and the ss was the better car for most people but man I still get the occasional v6 rs as a rental and I feel that engine was wayyy too overhated. Never really felt it was a bad/cheap/fake option, just different

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12345skroobcase@reddit

I recently bought a 1LE V6 based on the sound from a Jalopnik “Blip” YouTube video. No ragrets!

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rivers_to_rooftops@reddit

narrowbody Z51 corvette here, they’re phenomenal cars to drive at limit. The coolers, gearing, dry sump, and other bits really make it rock solid for my track days every month. Can’t recommend them enough!

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natesully33@reddit

I also tracked a C7 w/ Z51 quite a bit, and felt it was more than adequate on track and too much car on the street. IMHO, the base newer Corvettes are enough car for most drivers, the higher trims are overkill.

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Fact0ry0fSadness@reddit

If we're talking ones that aren't made anymore, throw the Focus ST/RS and Fiesta ST in there as well. Not nearly as quick as most of the others you've mentioned but genuinely fun to drive.

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TurboSalsa@reddit

Straight line boats can be plenty of fun in parts of the country with lots of straight, open highway (which is most of it I would guess).

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

Yeah definitely, hence why in the vast majority of the country muscle cars are incredibly well represented. I know several folks who would take a hellcat widebody over a gt3 any day of the week. I personally love the Escalade V at a quick glance of their post history, OP seems to be from india, so I'm not quite sure what their reference of "back in the day" and "local rallies" seems to be? I don't know which rally has only "50 year old modified American models" Same with asking "Does America make anything close to a stock super-car?" when we did up the C8 ZR1 very recently and have been doing up ACR's and Ford GTs since the dawn of time

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pperry1976@reddit

I love my 1ss 6MT 1LE it just rails corners and is fast in a straight line when needed

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Intersectaquirer@reddit

Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing - 6MT supercharged V8 sedan. They out BMW'd BMW with that car.

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canikony@reddit

Someone in my neighborhood has one... it sounds and looks amazing

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liveaxel@reddit

I own one. It is amazing. I've never encountered an object before or since that would reduce full grown men into giggling fools like driving the Blackwing does. 11/10 would buy again.

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ProAmCanAm@reddit

CT4-V & CT5-V exist

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liveaxel@reddit

AND THEY ARE GLORIOUS

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Herr_Tilke@reddit

Discontinued for '26

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TFiPW@reddit

The Shelby cars (GT500, GLH, etc.)

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StraightStackin@reddit

Any Viper, any V series Cadillac, Focus RS, Mustang's with s V8 and manual, Corvettes are tricky because they have some real basic bitch models, anything higher trim is good. V8 Camaros.

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u700MHz@reddit

Cadillacs Sedans

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Viperlite@reddit

I’m holding on to my gen-2 CTS-V sedan 6MT. It’s pretty solid.

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OldCarWorshipper@reddit

Mopar's Hellcat series of vehicles. Corvette Z06 and ZR1. Shelby or R-edition Mustang.

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

The Mach 1 was absolutely fantastic, too. All the Shelby goodies without the Voodoo problems.

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MagillaGorillasHat@reddit

Valid point, valid point. Counterpoint: 8500 RPM flat plane crank noise go **brrr!**

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steakpienacho@reddit

8250, but still an absolutely incredible sound

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OldCarWorshipper@reddit

I'm not sure if that program still exists now, but even several years back at least two of the big three were selling what is known as "bodies in white"- bare body shells that professional racers could build to their own specifications.

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Big_Flan_4492@reddit

Your probably talking about the turn key race cars. Its still being offered today

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Jamaican_Dynamite@reddit

The Drag Pak, Cobra Jet & Copo cars?

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OldCarWorshipper@reddit

Perhaps. Not sure.

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newtonreddits@reddit

I dunno. The new ZR1 seems kinda pedestrian. Might be good as a family car or grocery getter. Nothing beyond that

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Significant_Play_713@reddit

Mustang GT with the performance pack and magneride. Not only are they extremely fun in a straight line, they handle very well too, they aren't straight line boats.

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The_Fiestas_Over@reddit

Current or past? Currently, nothing comes to mind other than the Corvette and Mustang, but both come with a pretty hefty price tag these days. Crossover and enthusiast model are antonyms.

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mgobla@reddit

You never heard of Corvette?

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BRICH999@reddit

The manual ats and cts v's were pretty surprising to me. After Germany gave up rwd v8 manual sedans, cadillac kept the flame lit a few more years. Super cars would be the ford GT. The C8 corvette to me is not a supercar despite its abilities, it just wont ever hold that title in my mind but is wildly impressive for what it is. There are some very rare ones like henessey venom f5. Shelby had a cool one a few decades back, gr1. And also panoz and saleen s7. I know I'm missing some but these are what came to mind

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i_like_pretzels@reddit

Integra Type S

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i_like_pretzels@reddit

To the people downvoting - The 2024 Integra Type S is produced at the Marysville Auto Plant in Marysville, Ohio. It's manufactured on the same production line as the standard Integra, the Acura TLX, and the TLX Type S. The K20C engine, which powers the Integra Type S, is built at the Anna Engine Plant in Anna, Ohio

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notworkingfromhome@reddit

I mean, doesn't the Plaid belong in this conversation?

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Big_Flan_4492@reddit

Lol

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notworkingfromhome@reddit

Submitted for your consideration, Exhibit A: https://youtu.be/ot8zw9UKdgY?si=kLCDZ0TAIto7U6c1

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OvONettspend@reddit

Raptor, jeep, trx, zr2

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fiddlythingsATX@reddit

Jeep what?

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1nconspicious@reddit

Wranglers

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fiddlythingsATX@reddit

Ok fair. I was thinking performance enthusiast but that’s absolutely accurate.

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natesully33@reddit

Wranglers are very high performance in terms of angles, articulation, locking diffs, crawl ratio, size...

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fiddlythingsATX@reddit

True, it absolutely is an enthusiast vehicle that has strong attributes, but I was thinking about traditional performance (which it absolutely lacks). My 2001 TJ had a 3 speed auto, no ABS, rear drums, and was slow as a brick (and incredibly unreliable). My 2016 JK was better in many ways but I still don’t think about it as a performance vehicle.

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natesully33@reddit

I actually traded a C7 for mine, which the dealer thought was hilarious. I just thought of it as moving between two vehicles of equal performance, but by very different metrics as the place I live went from a land of tracks and dry to a land of trails and winter. I had a 2012 two-door stick JK before this Wrangler which I loved, and this one - while not the "enthusiast trim" - is super capable and also has an 8-speed and a sub-6-second 0-60. Modern Wranglers are very different from what they used to be.

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OvONettspend@reddit

Trackhawk and 392 wrangler

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Competitive-Reach287@reddit

Hey, Enzo Ferrari himself called the Jeep "America's only true sportscar". I don't know if that was a dig at Americans or their cars. There's also speculation that this may have been made up.

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fiddlythingsATX@reddit

That sounds a lot like that “if you’re not drinking beer, I won’t either “ joke. But it IS a quintessentially American vehicle. I’ve had two Wranglers, a TJ and a JK. Both were terrible yet filled me with misplaced confidence in my ability to do incredible things.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

yeah its one of the cheapest manual, two-door, drop-top, NA cars, feel like thats gotta count for something. Its got issues but the doors come off

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fiddlythingsATX@reddit

Both of mine had issues with their own issues, but damn if they weren’t so fun I forget how badly made they were. Sometimes I even think about a JL.

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dcux@reddit

Rubber duck display case, apparently.

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fiero-fire@reddit

If you like off-roading the wrangler is a great package. The Rubicon has all the OEM trick parts and has gotten a little too luxury in my opinion but you can't find a more capable offroader out of the box from anyone. It's a simple design. Body on frame, solid front and rear axles, lockers, great entry and departure angles. What's not to love

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Mysterious_Mon@reddit

Saturn Ion Redline

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ChuckoRuckus@reddit

Regular cab short bed V8 pickups. They don’t have much room inside. They’re limited on bed space. They have lesser towing capability. But what they lack in general hauling, they make up for in being the lightest version with a V8. They have the bigger motor to haul 1 thing and 1 thing only…. Ass. Ford even noticed people buying stripped down Coyote powered 4x4 RCSB and started jacking up the price on them. It’s the reason some call it the “Mexican GTR”.

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avoidhugeships@reddit

For supercar I would say the Ford Mustang GTD.

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thedeaux@reddit

Blackwing is the only answer

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dam_sharks_mother@reddit

If we define enthusiasts as people who enjoy a dynamic driving experience where hand/foot inputs deliver immediate and rewarding feedback and performance (this is how I define it at least - am a 911 GT3 owner) * C8 Z51/C8 Z06 * Mustang GT350 (discontinued) * Lucid Air * Camaro SS 1LE (discontinued) * Cadillac Blackwings * Tesla Model 3 Performance There are faster cars (Plaid, Hellcat) but to me those don't meet the definition.

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RedditorMichael@reddit

Though it may be an odd pick, I’d say the Model 3 performance Highland is very enthusiast oriented. It definitely hits a slightly different market.

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cheetah611@reddit

Nearly anything two door with over 300 hp, any Cadillac offered with a manual, wranglers and broncos, any truck with over 600 horsepower. Depends what type of enthusiast you are really.

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carmeiser@reddit

The fiesta/focus st, neon srt4 & acr, and cobalt SS should be mentioned I think. All are fun and fast (ish) Sporty/sports FWD. Sure, it's not some iconic American muscle, but I swear 90+% of neons I see are srt4s. Fiestas are fun af, i owned one.

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SqueezyCheez85@reddit

Jeep Cherokee Trackhawk. That thing is insane.

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Reterence@reddit

The Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, and Corvette are the the big modern ones. Base versions included. You rarely buy a 2 door purely for pracitical transportation purposes. They're everywhere around here, the last of the American 2 doors. I'd also toss in the off-roaders, Raptors and TRXs, the Jeep 392. And the Blackwings, which are arguably the best high performance sedans out there right now. There's also a few dealer specials still around. I know Ford can still sell you an F150 with a dealer installed supercharged V8. You could probably count most modern US cars with a non-diesel V8. It's still a reasonable seller over here. People love the sound, including myself.

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Outdoorguy2017@reddit

1990 Ford Taurus SHO

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rks1743@reddit

GM gives all new Blackwing owners a chance to see just how capable they are right off the lot. 2 free days at Spring Mountain with not-your-car opens your eyes to just how capable they are fully stock.

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