Reuters: Robotaxis go from hype to maybe, possibly, profit
Posted by SnoozeDoggyDog@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 104 comments
Posted by SnoozeDoggyDog@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 104 comments
El_Intoxicado@reddit
Autonomous driving, particularly robotaxis, is more promise than widespread reality. While it's presented as the future, its "successes" are limited to highly specific conditions and often cause significant problems.
This technology isn't just a technical experiment; it's impacting people's livelihoods and jeopardizing personal mobility. We've seen this with Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) incidents, Waymo's struggles with public acceptance (like the Santa Monica noise complaints and its "humanization" to cope with real-world traffic), and the outright fall from grace of Cruise due to serious safety failures. These aren't isolated hiccups; they're clear indicators that current autonomous tech, lacking true human judgment, is still playing with fire. The push to expand is driven by investment pressure, not proven, universal safety.
Realistic_Village184@reddit
I mean, real humans are really, really bad at driving cars. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people going 80+ MPH on the interstate while staring at their phone in their hand, not to mention the insane number of people who drive drunk, exhausted, etc. Or the people who drive cars with bald tires and other dangerous mechanical issues. Or people who don't know how to handle a car through hydroplaning and other tricky conditions.
It's weird that when an autonomous vehicle causes an accident, a lot of ignorant people cite that as evidence that autonomous vehicles are unsafe and should be banned, but when a human causes an accident, no one cites that as evidence that humans should be banned from driving.
All that we need is for autonomous vehicles to be safer than human drivers, and we will get there eventually even if we're not already. I've had some really bad Uber/Lyft drivers, and genuinely I think I would trust a Waymo car more at this point. I have zero confidence that Tesla's autonomous technology is even close to mature, but that doesn't mean that the technology will never be there. Waymo is already more or less there, and others will catch up.
El_Intoxicado@reddit
That's a huge straw man you've built, and you're far from the only one using these types of arguments around here.
First and foremost, let's agree that some people are idiots, whether they're behind a wheel or walking down the street; we don't need to say more. But stating that all human drivers are inherently bad is a truly simplistic, even Manichean, view.
A driver isn't just responsible for driving, but also for maintaining their own vehicle. If they mess up while driving or maintaining their car, there's a chain of responsibility, laws, investigations, and consequences like license revocation or even criminal charges. And careful, nobody here has claimed human judgment is infallible, but I have said that human judgment is necessary for driving because humans are adapted to chaotic environments. Moreover, current autonomous technology, both in its state-of-the-art and its intrinsic design limitations, has a manifest inability to understand the chaos around it, which is why we see incidents with autonomous driving systems every day.
The real danger of autonomous driving isn't autonomous driving itself—though that's part of it—but that, due to the intrinsic limitations I've mentioned, it's endangering both people and property in its operating areas. It also causes all kinds of disruptions, and crucially, puts billions of jobs at risk; these aren't just driving jobs, but also roles involving the custody of transported people and goods, acting as vital pillars of road safety. I'm sorry if you've encountered idiots who should have their licenses revoked and be fired from Uber or Lyft, but for people like you to defend an anti-human bias with empty arguments—also used by Tesla and Waymo fanatics—goes against logic and common sense.
And let's not forget, your original comment clearly says humans should stop driving vehicles ASAP. That means we have to surrender one of our fundamental freedoms, that of movement, into the hands of mega-corporations. We also have to defend their lobbying tactics (backed by biased data, because Waymo's data is only from their operating zones, while the human drivers you demonize operate on every road and in every condition). This could even lead to, to your delight, a prohibition or limitation of human driving. Yet you and I know perfectly well that some vehicles, like motorcycles and bicycles, can't be automated. And since we're using such simplistic arguments, we might as well say humans should be banned from walking outside and being pedestrians. Stupid, right?
Realistic_Village184@reddit
In all those paragraphs you didn't really say anything of value or address my point.
No... ? I never said that, and I don't believe that because that would be an insane statement. This is my second comment in this thread as far as I remember. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else.
I didn't call for a prohibition of human driving. Yet you're telling me that I'm arguing against a straw man? Do you see the irony here? You're literally putting words in my mouth lmao
I'm done responding to you since you're clearly trolling.
El_Intoxicado@reddit
Yes, I apologize for confusing you with the original comment; that was my mistake. However, I believe I clearly responded to many of your points based on what you defended in your comments. If you think I'm "trolling," you're free not to reply; no problem. But we're supposed to be in a constructive environment where we can argue.
And yes, nice investigative work looking at my profile. Oh, surprise, I'm against or even I can define myself as autonomous driving skeptical! Honestly, you call me "sad" when you and many in this subreddit defend the indefensible. And no, I'm not getting paid, nor do I need to be. I, for my part, do this out of my own will and conviction. It's a matter of logic and common sense, as I already outlined in my original comment in this thread. By the way, many of you defending the indefensible here also have certain leanings or preferences in other subreddits, like "anti-vehicle" ones or related. I don't know if that's your case, but honestly, don't judge others before judging yourself. Furthermore, my stance is backed by rational and quantifiable arguments, which clearly doesn't fit either the philosophy or the definition of trolling.
Deep Research
StormFalcon32@reddit
This part of the article was weird to me. What it really should explain is that Tesla's camera approach is much harder technologically and probably requires a lot more data to train, but they don't have to make detailed 3D maps like LIDAR based approaches do so they aren't going to be restricted to operating in certain cities. And it won't take a ton of work to expand to new locations. Instead it half communicates that idea in a sprinkle of other half communicated ideas that would probably end up giving the reader the wrong impression about the differences between Tesla and other AV companies.
When I worked at an AV company 2 years ago, most companies were definitely still using a mix of neural networks and hard coded rules. End-to-end neural networks were kinda in the works but not quite reliable yet. I don't know if they've been achieved since then but regardless that has nothing to do with why some companies need precise mapping. The maps provide the LIDAR a point of reference so the car can more easily determine exactly where it is in its surroundings, and so that it knows which objects are things that are part of the environment like walls, trees, etc, and which are things that it should expect to move. Tesla doesn't need that because they have no LIDAR.
A camera only approach like Tesla's needs a shit load of data, likely a lot more than LIDAR based approaches. If their claims of using a single massive end to end neural network are true, then that needs even more data. Essentially all of the information that LIDARs give you "for free" now needs to be replicated by a neural network looking at only cameras so that network probably needs more data. One of Tesla's major advantages and why they can be even remotely competitive with such a handicapped set of sensors is probably because their existing customers are more than happy to help them do a public beta test on millions of vehicles out on the road and collect data.
Tesla almost certainly does simulated testing too, like every other AV company. And they probably use gen AI in at least part of their simulation pipeline.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I was in cali recently and couldn’t imagine taking an uber over a waymo. Proven to drive safer than humans, clean premium cars, cheaper than uber/lyft + tip, just an absolutely spotless experience.
If they can manage to bring costs down, scale that, and keep it sustainable, I can’t imagine standard cabs are going to be around for much longer r
Mojave_Idiot@reddit
Even if the Waymo cars weren’t that great so many of the Ubers that I’ve taken have just gotten so damn bad. Nasty cars, terrible driving, so on and so forth.
Could easily just be New Orleans but fighting motion sickness as a pilot on the way to the airport in the back of a model 3 or a Sentra just isn’t it.
Logitech4873@reddit
Why do you use "Uber" instead of real taxis?
Mojave_Idiot@reddit
Trying to figure out why you’re putting uber in air quotes as if it hasn’t been the standard for like 10 years.
Logitech4873@reddit
I've never seen one. Doesn't exist here.
Mojave_Idiot@reddit
Alright
hi_im_bored13@reddit
none of these model 3 ubers know how to use one pedal driving, nor do they care to turn it off. stop go stop go stop go it kills me
crsn00@reddit
You can't turn it off anymore, thanks to EPA rules on advertised range.
Bderken@reddit
Didn’t know that. That’s insane. One pedal driving makes me sick…
Logitech4873@reddit
If you own the car you can use a S3XY commander to reduce the strength or even turn it off. At 25% it feels like a normal car.
MembershipNo2077@reddit
Then it would be fantastic if the drivers knew how to fucking use it.
crsn00@reddit
I agree. It doesn't seem that hard to me, I'm smoother with one pedal than regular brakes but I guess most people suck at driving
tr_9422@reddit
My uber experience in NO was somebody with a pickup truck accepting rides from a hotel to the airport. Just toss your suitcases in the bed! What's a little rain on all your stuff? What kind of idiot doesn't expect riders to the airport to have luggage?
Maschinenbau@reddit
When I visited SF earlier this year, I found the Waymos a pleasant and nicer experience than the ubers and lifts, but certainly not cheaper. I would check all three apps for each trip and only took Waymo if the price was within $5-$10 to match a tip, but usually it was much higher.
KobeBean@reddit
Or another option they pull a uber/lyft and crank prices once adoption hits a certain point.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
The issue is uber is profitable at its current prices and take and google still has to say competitive with them so there isn’t really room to raise prices
of course they could cut prices so far as to drive uber out the market, but they are under enough government scrutiny as is w/ chrome & search
they also directly work with uber to provide services in e.g. austin
DrVeinsMcGee@reddit
Went into LA over the weekend and saw probably 10 Waymo cars on the road. They drove just fine (way better than a Tesla). I was really surprised at how they kept up with traffic well and took turns very naturally, like way faster than a mediocre driver would. They don’t service any area that I normally go to so I won’t try one for a long time but it made a good impression.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
the major issue apart from the occasional pothole I still see regularly is that they don’t know how to react to emergency vehicles.
which surprisingly fsd has figured out. but then they actual self driving bit which is arguably important in a self driving car
DrVeinsMcGee@reddit
That’s fine because most drivers in LA don’t know how to respond to emergency vehicles either.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
It’s largely on the westside which is why I’ve never taken one. If I’m down there, I’m usually driving myself. But I’d like to take one. My friend did and said it was a super pleasant experience.
stav_and_nick@reddit
Yeah, there’s a lot of companies doing it globally at scale; I really don’t think cab drivers in major cities are going to last that long
It’s quiet, pleasant, and (for now) decently cheap. It’ll take awhile to percolate outside of cities, but it’s 100% the future
Too bad the Zeekr cabs got caught up in politics, they’re so adorable
andrewjaekim@reddit
While I hope that public transportation continues to grow in the US, it currently doesn’t solve the issue of micro transit. An example could be those who may not be physically able to walk the last 10 minutes from a bus stop to their home
Self driving cars could fill that gap. If it ever becomes robust enough, cities could rezone archaic parking minimums and build more densely. A good self driving taxi should maximize occupancy time (for both financial sustainability and also reducing road congestion).
AbbreviationsKnown24@reddit
Self driving cars will make all of this worse, not better
andrewjaekim@reddit
Why would that be the case?
Holiday_Albatross441@reddit
For robo-taxis to replace cars, you need enough to drive everyone at rush hour.
Then the robot-taxis have to do something for the rest of the day. Either parking or driving around hoping to pick someone up.
andrewjaekim@reddit
Yep. Definitely has to maximize occupancy time. The cars wouldn’t have to park near residential. It would be like mail trucks where they congregate to a central area outside of town.
As far as having enough cars to transport during rush hour. That wouldn’t be micro transit. Mass transit would be handled by public transportation. Microtransit would be served by taxis.
Double_Cleff@reddit
They're using the same FSD that's killed 5 people in the last 2 years right?
Logitech4873@reddit
Source for 5 people?
Double_Cleff@reddit
Looks like it's my b, 2 confirmed FSD and 54 Autopilot. I didn't know there was a difference to be honest.
https://www.tesladeaths.com/?_gl=11565oc_ga*WE1Gb2ZXMU5UcEpBZGMtb3FwX0EtbHp6VjlZREdaZHBmSThJczI0dUl4UFhoaVJyUW53ZWkyUkhFRmZhZF9FMA..
Most recent
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2025-tesla-full-self-driving-crash/?embedded-checkout=true
Logitech4873@reddit
The most recent is 2 years ago? Seems like FSD is doing quite well.
And yes, FSD and AP are very very different. Completely different systems.
cock________________@reddit
5 people…? assuming it’s that low, that’s honestly pretty fucking impressive when you look at their market share and crash statistics.
adrr@reddit
Uber pulled itself off the market after it killed someone. Cruise did to after it injured someone. Tesla FSD continues to kill people. Bloomberg released yesterday of a Model Y running over an old lady in road after the camera blinded by the sun.
TurboSalsa@reddit
Yes but they've added AI and jazzhands so it's good.
TurboSalsa@reddit
I've taken a few rides in Waymo and was very impressed, but I would not feel confident riding in Tesla's half-baked equivalent. The timing of its debut to the public (after 7 years of promises) seems more about generating positive headlines in the wake of a bunch of bad news than genuine technological readiness, especially given the company's history of beta testing its technology on public roads.
AndroidUser37@reddit
How much of this statement is based on actually looking at FSD's current capabilities, and how much of it is based on a dislike (political or otherwise) of Elon Musk? Because the latest versions of FSD are very promising, they're way ahead of any other car manufacturer right now.
yll33@reddit
i mean, there are multiple videos of tesla drivers taking FSD out and nearly hitting something.
there is also confirmation that fsd deactivates when a crash is imminent, so tesla can claim fsd wasn't active when the crash occurred to artificially inflate its safety numbers
most recently there's the well publicized video of the current version of fsd (13.2.9) ignoring a school bus stop sign, running over a child mannequin that some sources say it detected but ignored.
and way ahead of other manufacturers? a tesla actually did hit, and severely injure, a kid in north carolina exiting a school bus in 2023. waymo has been autonomously operating in san francisco since 2021
Logitech4873@reddit
Yes FSD disables when the car is about to crash. All SAE level 2 systems will do this. No, they don't do that to skew safety statistics - that's a jump in logic. They count any crash where FSD was enabled within 5 seconds of the crash.
adrr@reddit
Are they? they don’t have a single car that can self drive, Mercedes has one. BMW has one. Honda has one. Mercedes working on L4 certification right now in california and china after obtaining L3 a few years ago.
phxees@reddit
Mercedes Benz is limited to a few highways going 45 mph or less. It is a traffic jam driving assistant.
https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot
adrr@reddit
In californa, their license only allows them to drive 45mph. In germany they can go full highspeeds. And unlike Tesla, you can literally watch a movie when it is active.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I still think the tesla's L2 system is more impressive considering where it works and what it can handle. Sure the mercedes system has better peak capability, but it works in like 1/100th of the country
adrr@reddit
I own FSD. Mercedes is true self driving like I was promised when I paid for FSD. Ability to do other things on you commute like watch a movie. Mercedes is actually making progress for point to point self driving. Its been 6 years since I bought my car and Tesla is in the exact same spot, It can't self drive anywhere.
Logitech4873@reddit
Mercedes only works in extremely limited conditions and areas.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Mercedes is making progress in an incredibly limited capacity for 2.5k/yr on top of the six-figure buy-in for an s-class or eqs. Both sides have some benefits and egregious drawbacks
I owned FSD, on the east coast mercedes' software does nothing for me, and v13 worked fairly well while I still had that car.
Grabthar-the-Avenger@reddit
The high fatality rate compared to peers and its high disengagement rate is not very impressive to me. Just because you can turn it on for a given road doesn’t mean it’s actually safe to do so.
phxees@reddit
In Germany it can go 59 miles an hour in good weather during the day on roads with no construction. So yes in Germany they can go 14 miles faster. Woah.
https://group.mercedes-benz.com/innovations/product-innovation/autonomous-driving/drive-pilot-95-kmh.html
adrr@reddit
Like I said before, thats what the government allows them to do. Tesla can't self drive at any speed. There's a huge difference. Tesla FSD is the same as cruise control and lane keep where Mercedes is self driving.
phxees@reddit
Mercedes Benz is at Level 3 with a lot of restrictions, it isn’t just what the law allows as Waymo is operating in California too without those restrictions.
Not sure why you’re bringing up Tesla as I never mentioned them.
adrr@reddit
Up until last year, Waymo wasn't certified to go over 45 mph or drive on freeways.
https://www.axios.com/local/san-francisco/2024/03/05/waymo-self-driving-cars-california-freeway-approval
phxees@reddit
Waymo was never limited to highway use only.
adrr@reddit
Literally posted an article that says they got certified for the highway.
phxees@reddit
Waymo was certified to also use the highway, Mercedes Benz is limited to only use the highway. Do you not see a difference?
adrr@reddit
So? Waymo when it first came out was certified for SF between hours of midnight at 6am when there were the least amount of cars on the street. After demonstrating that the car is safer than a human, they expanded the scope. Mercedes is working on L4 certification(no driver) which means city streets. They are farthest along of any car manufacturer.
phxees@reddit
You are talking about MB as if they were so far along, then I question how far along they really are and excuse, excuse, excuse.
adrr@reddit
They are farther along than any other manufacturer. Have L3 certification in multiple markets.
phxees@reddit
Yup if you wanna take your hands off the wheel I’m a traffic jam, look no further than a Mercedes Benz S-Class. Truly revolutionary.
adrr@reddit
It hands off eyes off so you dan do other things like watch a movie. That is revolutionary.
AndroidUser37@reddit
Have you actually done research on Mercedes's "L3" system? It's a complete joke, it only works at <50 mph on a few specifically mapped freeways in California and Germany. The "L3" thing is just Mercedes being willing to take on legal liability instead of the driver, it doesn't mean so much about the actual capabilities of the system.
adrr@reddit
Mercedes is allowed to drive at full freeway speeds in Germany. Notice the word allowed. Restrictions are placed on the vehicle by the government with their self driving license. You can go to the bay and see Mercedes test vehicles self driving on the streets with a test driver as they work on L4. Tesla isn’t allowed to self drive anywhere that does self driving certifications. They can’t get an L3 certification and I don’t even think they managed to get an ADAS license in China and EU where ADAS is regulated. China even made them change the name of FSD since the car can’t self drive.
AndroidUser37@reddit
https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/23/24252413/mercedes-drive-pilot-speed-germany-level-3-autonomous
95 km/h barely counts as "full freeway speeds", dude. That's disingenuous. 95 km/h is school bus, dump truck in the right lane territory.
Ok, cool that Mercedes is testing things. Tesla tests things too; that doesn't really say much?
Their system has to be meeting some legal hurdles if it's getting approved for robotaxi use. But if you'd been paying attention to my previous comments, my point about FSD is that while it may only work 90% of the time, it does so anywhere in the US, rather than being limited to mapped roads like most competitors. That's the big thing for me. I'd rather have an imperfect system that works everywhere than a perfect system that only works in a few specific areas.
KiiZig@reddit
"some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice i'm willing to take" /s
Corsair4@reddit
If Tesla's system is so much more capable and they're so confident, why haven't they taken the same step?
AndroidUser37@reddit
I feel like you're being intentionally obtuse here. Certifying a system to be safe on a half-dozen freeways <50 mph is a lot easier than certifying a dynamic system to be safe across the entire continental United States at all speeds.
Corsair4@reddit
Said dynamic system was supposed to feature complete in 2016,2017,2018,2019,2020, and every year since then, so it REALLY makes you wonder how the company behind said dynamic system got their timeline so wrong, so many times.
Said dynamic system is still advertised as fully autonomous, despite being nowhere near that.
1 company is saying "under these specific circumstances, we will take responsibility for any problems - otherwise, you need to pay attention", and those circumstances are clearly delineated.
The other company is muddying the waters as much as possible, starting with the name, which is immediately at odds with the appropriate usage.
I much prefer a gradual, measured roll out rather than a haphazard, misleading mess.
AndroidUser37@reddit
Look, I get Musk has been over promising for a while now, but have you actually watched footage of current FSD in action? And no, I'm not talking about that video of it ramming into a wall that was sponsored by a LiDAR company.
crsn00@reddit
I agree with the other guy. Have you actually been in one or just watching videos?
I own a model 3. They keep giving me FSD demo months to try to get me to buy it. It's been bad enough I don't even bother finishing out the month long trial because it makes so many mistakes. My real life experiences do not agree with those videos, for whatever reason.
AndroidUser37@reddit
I have actually been in one, and it was pretty impressive. To be fair, this is in Irvine, which is a nice suburb with basically ideal road markings and conditions.
crsn00@reddit
One drive is not enough. I was super impressed at first, but using it daily is where the issues start to appear.
Edge cases like driving between two lanes because the lane paint was faded, turning left into the oncoming traffic lane because the center divider paint on the original road was stopped too early, almost hitting a cyclist because they were riding through a cross walk at a roundabout, slamming on the brakes because the sunset was bright, going 65 through a 20mph rural school zone because it doesn't understand the signs that have times below them (school zone mon-fri 7am to 10am)...
Corsair4@reddit
I've been in one, in the last 3 weeks. I can assure you, I am not sponsored by a LiDAR company.
It's not actually an improvement. It made errors that would have caused an accident, or at least caused someone else to have to avoid an accident.
Which means I have to pay complete attention to the car when it's "self driving" and ensure it's not doing something dumb.
Which means I have to pay attention all of the time.
Which means the only effort FSD has saved me is the literal energy it takes to turn a steering wheel and use the pedals.
I don't know about you, but I've never found steering and pedals to be the tiring part of driving.
I also ride a motorcycle. I have almost been merged into by a Tesla on the highway, in the last 3 months. Now, I don't know which software suite the driver had activated, but his hands weren't on the wheel when I looked, so he was using something.
spraypaint23@reddit
Didn’t it also mow down a 71 year old woman in Arizona because the late evening sun was too much for the Lidar?
Corsair4@reddit
Tesla?
Tesla doesn't have Lidar on their consumer vehicles at all. They've been very outspoken about being vision only for the last few years.
Trouble with camera only systems is that there are scenarios where cameras have trouble. Rising/Setting suns are one example. inclement weather or fog are other scenarios. A mix of sensors can cover the weaknesses of each other.
TurkeyBLTSandwich@reddit
I tried it about 8 months ago on rural Michighan roads. For some reason it kept wanting to swerve into the opposite lane. Sometimes after cars had driven by, sometimes when there were no cars.
Highway driving was okay, pretty aggressive lane changes.
But I felt the uneasiness when it was on with other cars on the road.
TurboSalsa@reddit
How much of this is based on Musk's word vs. what other companies are actually doing right now? Like Waymo, which is quite literally way ahead of Tesla when it comes to self-driving taxis and is offering paid fares as we speak?
AndroidUser37@reddit
It's based on actual video footage from an independent YouTuber who owns a Rivian.
https://youtu.be/GY8ruVimG8M
I also have a friend with an FSD Model 3, and I've seen it in action, and it's genuinely quite capable.
That's why I said Tesla was ahead of car manufacturers. Also, Waymos have the massive flaw of being geofenced and requiring heavy 3D mapping for every single street the car plans to traverse. FSD can be engaged anywhere in the US. A lot more useful, don't you think?
LordofSpheres@reddit
Waymos have the massive advantage of using LIDAR in addition to camera vision. For a long, long fucking time Teslas used 1280x960 pixel cameras. Now they're on moderately better cameras but there are still many major flaws in relying on camera-only tech. So, you know, a Waymo can be more confident in worse weather and can tell the difference between, say, a painted wall and a road.
A lot more useful, don't you think?
AndroidUser37@reddit
Not necessarily. I'd rather have a system that works 90% of the time and can be used everywhere than a system that works 99.9% of the time and can only be used on a few dozen city streets in LA and SF. In fact, I've retrofitted Openpilot on my Volkswagen, and it's been extremely nice for my commute. The camera based vision system performs surprisingly well, even in weird situations with crazy sun glare and unclear lane lines.
MornwindShoma@reddit
You know that 90% isn't anywhere close to what countries will accept as "good enough". It doesn't matter what the competition does. Unless the car behaves perfectly 100% of the time, this is all pointless. My Toyota's adaptive cruise control is perfectly fine if I still need eyes on the road and hands on wheel, no need for additional software or hardware and stuff. Half measures aren't enough for a vehicle that supposedly will never have a steering wheel.
LordofSpheres@reddit
I'd rather have a system that works 99.9% of the time and 0.1% of the time says "sorry, I can't do this, I'm going to safely depart the situation" than press the little button and know that I'm giving myself 10% odds of death. I don't particularly care for automated driving, but given the choice of "hey, our system is shitty everywhere" or "hey our system is really good but can't go everywhere," I know which one I'm picking.
I don't want a system that works surprisingly well. I want a system that I know and trust to work effectively perfectly. And camera-only will simply never accomplish that, as far as I'm concerned.
AndroidUser37@reddit
10% odds of death is a bit dramatic. To be clear, I'm not some moron that's going to try to self-drive in a blizzard.
You're intentionally warping the phrasing. I'm saying the choice is between "hey, our system is pretty good everywhere", and "hey, our system is basically perfect but only for like 8 city blocks in LA and SF". "Pretty good everywhere" is massively more useful every day as a reduction in driver strain. I have Openpilot (which is a camera based system) on my car, and while it's not perfect, it's been a huge help in stress and driver strain. I would much rather have it than geofenced Waymo. I used Openpilot on a 6 hour road trip three weeks ago and it was amazing, I felt the same level of tiredness as if I had only been driving 1-2 hours.
LordofSpheres@reddit
Just using your numbers, hoss. Any system which is fully driving the car can very easily kill you quite literally anywhere - blizzard or not.
Waymo operates over more than 500 square miles of city, and they're specifically developing the technology to need less mapping and because eventually you can map everything. With FSD or Openpilot it's never going to be able to do the things Waymo can (not be camera-based, for instance) and by your own admission it's inferior as a system.
For my money, the stress of asking myself if my camera is going to get blocked by a bug and then my car will drive itself off the road is worse than just... Driving? If I'm going autonomous I want it to be full-fat autonomy.
TurboSalsa@reddit
Geofenced? Like Tesla’s robotaxis?
https://techcrunch.com/2025/05/20/musk-says-teslas-self-driving-tests-will-be-geofenced-to-the-safest-parts-of-austin/
The only reason it’s not geofenced on customer cars is because the company doesn’t have as much liability as it would when a company-owned taxi crashes.
And there are plenty of YouTube videos suggesting Tesla’s optics-only system performs much worse than LiDAR/radar systems in other cars, like this.
https://youtube.com/shorts/U1MigIJXJx8?feature=shared
AndroidUser37@reddit
The thing is though, they're only geofenced for liability reasons. Waymos are geofenced for technology reasons.
You realize that Mark Rober video was sponsored by a LiDAR company, right? They'd have a vested interest in making a LiDAR system look good.
TurboSalsa@reddit
Why would there be liability issues allowing robotaxis to go anywhere?
You just said it was a lot more useful since you could use it anywhere, but it sounds like Tesla themselves don’t believe so.
AndroidUser37@reddit
The liability issues come from them being unmonitored robotaxis. FSD isn't quite good enough to be used at that level nationwide, and there's legal hurdles as far as jurisdictions allowing self driving cars on their roads.
As far as actually going on a road trip, I can actually use FSD for that today.
AbbreviationsKnown24@reddit
Imagine paying $8k so FSD can assist on the occasional road trip where you can't even stop paying attention to the road because it may disconnect at any time.
cock________________@reddit
i’m sorry, did you call Tesla’s FSD “half-baked”? i’m certainly not a Tesla enjoyer but my wife’s Tesla takes her from our driveway to parking in her school’s parking lot 35 mins away without any intervention.
Lorax91@reddit
Your wife is 100% responsible for anything that happens while FSD is engaged, so if it makes a mistake and runs over someone else's kid then you'll be the ones dealing with that.
If/when Tesla accepts full responsibility for its experimental driver assist software, then you can say it's better than half-baked.
cock________________@reddit
we are aware, but honestly so far, it drives much safer than she does.
Djaii@reddit
Yeah, she could do better, right?
cock________________@reddit
i… don’t know. 😅
Bderken@reddit
As a software dev in ai. You won’t get any ai or Tesla understanding on Reddit. Reddit is anti ai in general and very anti Tesla now. I don’t use it for learning anything new for ai anymore. Tesla ai is very advanced. It’s just simpler than Waymo. But they have insane engineers, insane driving models, and just more volume in compute and input parameters. It’s not half baked at all. But you won’t get any knowledgeable discourse here about it.
TurboSalsa@reddit
Ok.
TurboSalsa@reddit
And?
cock________________@reddit
…and what? gonna need you to expand on that.
TurboSalsa@reddit
What do you think your anecdote proves?
cock________________@reddit
it doesn’t prove anything exactly like your initial comment didn’t lol
jse000@reddit
That article sure used a lot of words to say nothing profound or meaningful.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
that is more or less the point of reuters, it just presents the numbers, if you want a drawn conclusion it’s not the place