AWS forms EU-based cloud unit as customers fret about Trump 2.0 -- "Locally run, Euro-controlled, ‘legally independent,' and ready by the end of 2025"
Posted by throwaway16830261@reddit | linuxadmin | View on Reddit | 40 comments
EverythingsBroken82@reddit
if this would be true, amazon/aws would not make money of it. i do not believe it
TopparWear@reddit
They will make no money if EU stops using them due to national security concern. Like the EU prosecutor who had his Microsoft access removed for prosecuting crimes.
MrOaiki@reddit
For persecuting what he claimed to be crimes. He’s also put on leave because of sexual misconduct.
t0xic_sh0t@reddit
Alleged sexual misconduct.
Just like Assange, what a coincidence.
TopparWear@reddit
He claims or that a court found credible? I see you
EverythingsBroken82@reddit
you think the government agencies will not force them to install backdoors firsthand?
Nietechz@reddit
They can, Amazon will be the big investor and probably the only one. They simply "could legally deny" any order from US gov because they're just investors and not the managers. "Could" because they could force anyone inside to put backdoors.
ourlastchancefortea@reddit
If they "provide" the management software, they don't need to force anybody, would be my guess. The backdoors would be part of a regular update (if they are not already there).
EverythingsBroken82@reddit
this
Gendalph@reddit
AWS stands to lose _a lot _ of customers if the EU pushes to move off of AWS. A lot of auditors were already queasy about some companies using AWS, and it'll only get worse.
Dolapevich@reddit
THis IS true. What remains to be seen is if cloud providers can convince people to trust them again.
GitMergeConflict@reddit
If you trust amazon, you're goddamn stupid.
HomoAndAlsoSapiens@reddit
Well, the primary objective of this entity is to make it possible to tell US courts and the legislator to fuck off
StatementOwn4896@reddit
That’s basically impossible with the CLOUD Act no?
HomoAndAlsoSapiens@reddit
This is the entire clue about the European Sovereign Cloud launched by AWS. It is specifically designed to not be vulnerable to the US CLOUD act. The US corporation AWS has an EU daughter fully staffed with EU citizens residing in the EU (they emphasize this very often) and does not have any direct access to any data.
US-AWS can be forced by a US court to do everything reasonable to get the data but the system is designed so that any request for the data will be denied by EU-AWS for legal reasons and US-AWS can tell the court "whoopsie daisies I've tried my best". There is not any US-citizen that could be forced to comply either.
mschuster91@reddit
Well, China, Iran and North Korea have all taken hostages to get what they want. With the current administration, I see it entirely possible someone just goes and arrests some Amazon higher-up as well. Blatant lawbreaking is the norm these days, just look at Trump's private lawsuit that's IMHO used to funnel extortion money for allowing the CBS merger.
No one is safe. Not even the two top dogs Musk and Trump, just look how they've been shit-tweeting all day today against each other.
ankokudaishogun@reddit
That's unclear, yet.
HomoAndAlsoSapiens@reddit
Do you think they designed this entire system without asking legal first? Spoiler alert: no.
Vuiz@reddit
It's still the US, privacy laws are more like guidelines to them. Besides, it has shifted from privacy concerns to concerns about American reliability.
catwiesel@reddit
I dont really want to know what rhetoric and business tricks are employed here to make it seem less so, but I call bullshit.
How can the US-based company solve europes "the cloud belongs to us owners" problem by, again, a us company, providing said replacement cloud?
AWS is not european. and it cant be.
Dolapevich@reddit
Citing the note:
ralfD-@reddit
And how "independent" would this new parent company be? As long as there still is any tie to companies operating in the U.S. government agencies can still force access to the stored data. This smells like marketing snake-oil.
Dolapevich@reddit
Yes, and no. In the sense that it is radicated in DE, so DE laws apply. The fact the managers are EU citizens also limits the influence US can exert.
mats_o42@reddit
The US Patriot act means that as long as it's owned by a US company it falls under US law so as long as anyone in the US can access it, the may be ordered to provide the data to US authorities
HomoAndAlsoSapiens@reddit
That's kind of the thing here: they cannot directly access any data and all people who could are entirely staffed with EU citizens residing in the EU (they make this abundantly clear).
So it seems it would go like this: US court request data + gag order → AWS in the US cannot directly comply with this and legally (US law) has to request their daughter company in Europe to give them the data → the daughter company in Europe receives this request and "tries" to comply but ultimately has to deny it as it would be illegal (EU law) → Amazon tells the court "whoopsie daisies, we did our best"
catwiesel@reddit
you guys all discuss the "how much could corporate management take influence over the (imaginary) separate EU entity?"
wrong question.
they can hire all EU people and create all the german based subsidary companies. its still AWS, its still amazon, its still under the thumb of bezos so to speak. and THATS the issue.
HomoAndAlsoSapiens@reddit
"It is a problem because it is a problem"
Marvellous insight.
mats_o42@reddit
Well. That's fine in theory but it requires a lot more to work in reality.
It doesn't really matter if they have access, the question is if they can take access over data, execution or network
Will this European instance be 100% isolated, ie not a member of amazon:s control plane or global network? If not it can be controlled from US.
Same thing with all the software, as long as it is distributed from US and not locally verified and compiled outside US, it's still under US control
If they do all of it I'm going to be very happy but so far every time we have asked no one has been willing to guarantee that they will follow EU law if it conflicts with US law
HomoAndAlsoSapiens@reddit
Maybe this comment by an AWS employee in Germany can provide more technical insight. Remember that the main purpose of this new entity is to be legally resilient against rogue US court orders, not a full on NSA infiltration campaign.
mats_o42@reddit
It seems to confirm dependency on US code and if so all it takes is a court order to amazon US to provide access through that code.
We simply will have to wait and see if messures are put in place to prevent it or if it ends up like up like how MS treated the mailbox belonging to the ICC judge
yrro@reddit
Didn't Microsoft try this resulting in the US Cloud Act?
HomoAndAlsoSapiens@reddit
Yes, that is exactly the reason AWS created an entity specifically designed to not be vulnerable to the US CLOUD act.
spif@reddit
The furthest they could take it would be to prevent the U.S. entity from providing any funding or resources to the EU entity or vice versa, I would think. Short of Germany/EU caving to U.S. pressure which would only happen under certain circumstances. It might not be completely immune to U.S. interference but it could be much more insulated than Amazon is currently.
catwiesel@reddit
leaders != owners
MairusuPawa@reddit
People already trust Microsoft (Azure, o365, etc) in the same way when Microsoft already clearly said that they could not control where the data lived, even if they "promised" it to stay within Europe.
wideace99@reddit
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me :)
ramriot@reddit
Just in time for the coming changes in UK law to make it obsolete
HomoAndAlsoSapiens@reddit
It is an EU company exclusively staffed with EU citizens
Nietechz@reddit
Well small businesses who depends on AWS could keep using the same service with less problems. Big one? I don't think EU will let big companies go with them happily.
throwaway16830261@reddit (OP)
See https://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1kz14b2/poll_of_1000_senior_techies_euro_execs_mull_use/mv1n2qv/ ("Poll of 1,000 senior techies: Euro execs mull use of US clouds -- "IT leaders in region eyeing American hyperscalers escape hatch"").