ULPT : [UPDATE] Let Me Gamble, Took My $65K, Now Ghosting Me — The Perfect Casino Loophole?
Posted by Alarmed-Tour-8457@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 348 comments
[removed]
ExplicitWalrus02@reddit
don’t forget, you owe us!
offlinesir@reddit
I remember your post! You need a lawyer who specializes in gaming law or consumer rights in Massachusetts. The casino wants you to just drop it, but stay away from posting excessively emotional or accusatory content on social media that could be used against you. Stick to facts if you discuss it publicly here on reddit.
TSM-@reddit
If the one year ban wasn't active at the time, as they seem to suggest, I would think it's an easy case. At any rate, yeah they should have contacted a lawyer like yesterday. If op has a case, a lawyer knows they'll get paid. It should not be too difficult to secure a consultation.
Document everything, write down timelines, collect any and all potentially supporting documentation, and go from there.
The lawyer may consider the PR angle plausible, but if the OP is loosely telling slightly inconsistent stories, it can backfire. So running future public communication through them first would be a necessity, if that's part of the strategy going forward.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
OP is misrepresenting the facts
The ban WAS expired....BUT OP FAILED TO COMPLETE THE REINSTATEMENT PROCESS
The contract OP signed is as clear as day that if you dont complete the reinstatement process (which he didnt) YOU ARE STILL BANNED
No case
Princess_Moon_Butt@reddit
However, according to his post, the casino did allow him to gamble a few times between the expiration and the big win. Presumably he used his player's card, and may have had to show his license at some point.
If they knew he was gambling at their casino again and they didn't try to enforce the contract then (because they were profiting from his presence), then OP has a strong argument for estoppel by silence. Basically, the casino isn't allowed to selectively enforce their contract based solely on when it benefits them; if there were several times when they chose not to enforce it, then it's entirely reasonable for OP to assume that the contract is no longer in effect.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Couple things...
1.... the contract very clearly states... the Casino has ZERO responsibility if OP is let on the floor
2... the front scanners only check your ID to ensure it is valid and not fake... they DO NOT check or have access to the state wide ban database
3.... the contract is so clear... it even states that IF AND WHEN you are allowed or make it to the floor... you still agree to forfeit all losses, wagers, and winnings.
4.... estoppel would actually be against OP... because he agreed to these very terms and agrees to not hold the Casino or Gaming Commission responsible if he were to ever be allowed on the floor... and NOW OP is trying to change what he previously agreed to.
Listen man... the casino and Gaming Commission are not dumb... the lawyers and law makers wrote this specific verbiage because they knew someone like this would happen
This is actually and extremely common occurrence...
OP has zero recourse
Simon-Says69@reddit
So basically, the contract is worthless. They'll do nothing to enforce it unless you win big. They'll accept the money you lose though.
Sounds very much like such shouldn't be allowed at all. At the least, the casino should be on blast for such totally shady bullshit.
hydra_pathos@reddit
crazy
TheNorsemen777@reddit
This is why they warn you.... that you LITERALLYYYYYY can never win or cash out
Its to discourage an addict from returning..
Because WHY THE FUCK would you gamble... with a 100% guaranteed failure.
The Casino will offer nothing... because they legally cannot
hydra_pathos@reddit
this is insane
schmuckmulligan@reddit
OP's only recourse is that the casino might pay him off because he's getting a lot of attention on Reddit. They might decide that it's worth $65,000 not to have him sully the dream of other problem gamblers that they'll one day turn it around and win big. (This is a big part of their revenue base.)
ttchoubs@reddit
Either that or they might settle because lawsuit would be too expensive and they might lose and have to pay damages above the 65k
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Lol no
He broke the rules
They are not going to reward someone for breaking rules he voluntarily agreed to
They WILL however.. counter sue for defamation by presenting a false representation of the truth
TribunusPlebisBlog@reddit
Sure thing, MGM.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Woahhh edgy
Skeggy-@reddit
The contract is not between OP and the casino. The contract is between OP and MA gaming commission.
Casino has nothing to do with OP not reinstating his ability to gamble in that state.
Simon-Says69@reddit
What a rediculously useless, one-sided contract.
They'll keep all your losses, but not pay out winnings.
And won't enforce it any other way. Like, they'll let you keep playing knowing they'll be the sole winner.
This bull is less than useless and not really a ban at all. Just a scam.
dcidino@reddit
There is a case. If you put money in peril at an establishment, they don't have the right to take that money if they also don't have the responsibility to pay out wins.
They took bets. They'd have kept his money otherwise. So don't tell me there's no case… that's not how laws work.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
You. Are. Wrong
The contract... quite literally... word for word... says you forfeit ALL LOSSES... WAGERS... AND WINNINGS
they not only have the right... they are LEGALLY required by Massachusetts Gaming Commission to withhold the winnings
They would literally be breaking the law by handing the winnings over
OP agreed to this
There is ZERO case
dcidino@reddit
OP had a reasonable expectation that this was no longer the case. You sound like the guy who lost for McDonalds with the spilled coffee. Contracts don't supersede law, and you clearly know that.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No... he did not
You really dont know what your talking about
THE CONTRACT HE SIGNES IS THE LAW......
The contract is with the... Massachusetts Gaming Commission.... NOT the Casino
OP... DID NOT... have a "reasonable expectation"...
The contract is SUPER FUCKIN CLEAR ... it LITERALLY says
"expiration of self ban DOES NOT end your ban...you MUST complete the reinstatement process"
It then further states that IF AND WHEN..you are allowed on the floor... "YOU FORFEIT ALL... LOSSES... WAGERS... AND WINNINGS"
The very people you want to help OP.... are the very people OP has a contract with... LMAO
he has zero recourse
Here is everything he agreed to:
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
Flux_My_Capacitor@reddit
Yeah, that’s not how the law works in the USA. A casino could put anything they want in that contract, but if the courts determine it to be null and void then THAT is the law, not some shady contract.
Go back to school. You failed government/civics class. 😂
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Are you retarded?
What part of "the contract is the law" do you not understand..
The "salf ban" is called VSE: Voluntary Self-Exclusion
The program was written... and is run... by the government of Massachusetts
It is quite literally... in every sense of the word... the law regarding self bans in the State of Massachusetts.....
UnethicalLifeProTips-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment was removed for violating rule 14: No reason to be a dick. Seriously, get therapy or fuck off.
ScolexSanford@reddit
Contracts can be written but still be in violation or up to the interpretation of the law. Just like anybody can sue anyone for any reason any contract can say anything they want but doesn't mean it's enforceable. I understand casinos have the resources and the political glad-handing to ensure their contracts. R "iron clad" but this is ridiculous.
Casinos literally have a minimum payout ratio per dollar they take in from. gamblers.
To skirt and contradict that law in the guise of consumer protection and best interests for problematic gamblers while still taking their money when they lose and removing the possibility of payout when they win with is in my opinion (again, not a lawyer) a pure and utter garbage argument and unenforceable contract. This "contract" feels far from bona fide good faith and feels much more of the antithesis antagonist against the spirit of the law it's hiding behind.
Maybe it's extremely expensive to pursue and people addicted to gambling to have the means to fight it but I have more public scrutiny or case law changes that.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Can you read?
The contract... is.. the.. fucking ... law
The "contract" is a program.... that was written... run... and enforced... by the State of Massachusetts
The contract is specifically written to protect the Casino... in this exact situation
Literally word for word exact
ScolexSanford@reddit
Laws are up to interpretation and taken to court everyday. Case law dictates interpretation which dictates enforcement. The "law" (the contract) is in contradiction to multiple other laws.
Case law and circumstances evolve everyday. Dick head.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Except the people who would prosecute this...
wrote it...
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
ScolexSanford@reddit
Sunlight is the best medicine for the shade. Nothing changes unless attention is brought to the problem. One story at a time.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
There is no problem
Outside of OP breaking his agreement
Bro literally could take 2 seconds on Google and avoid this whole thing 💀💀💀
ScolexSanford@reddit
KYC and AML are standard at banks. Predatory lending is highly regulated for consumer protection. I think people who have voluntarily put themselves into a database to keep themselves out of casinos should it only be opted out of the ability to win. With the tech stack sophistication and identification technology that casinos use, I don't think it's unreasonable to hold casinos accountable for keeping people that are ineligible to win out of their casino. If it's too expensive or too complex for them to do so, they they shouldn't by law be able to operate. Hopefully stories like ops help this happen in the future.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Lol
I too wish gum drops and rainbows fell from the sky
And that i shit gold bricks!
Reality VS fantasy
OP is an addict... he broke the rules.... he should take this as a sign... to stop engaging in his addiction
Dont go to Casino... dont get scammed
Simon-Says69@reddit
Then that totally nonsensical, obviously corrupt law should be challenged and changed.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope
It is to protect the casino and deter addicts
2 second Google search and OP could have avoided this
Your wrong
Then_Hearing_7652@reddit
Yeah and so many contracts make us sign away everything. We shouldn’t have to be lawyers to interpret basic deals we make in life. The guy removed himself. It expired. They took losses. He was let on the property. But when he wins? That’s when they enforce? That’s absurd. It doesn’t scream fair. I get a million technicalities but common sense and fairness also matter.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No no no no no....
For 1... OP agreed to this... its literally explains THIS EXACT scenario in the rules... OP was literally specifically warned about this LMAO
The contract (which is actually a law) clearly states it is OP'S SOLE RESPONSIBILITY to not go on the floor....
The Casino legally CANT cash him out...
Here is everything he agreed to:
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
ScolexSanford@reddit
Not a lawyer but the basic terms of this agreement are contradictory. Casinos so heavily tracked gamblers their identities and bets placed. The fact that they would take advantage of an individual who signed away the right to win money while still placing bets feels legitimately unconstitutional. Whether it is or not, maybe up to interpretation that something tells me with enough public scrutiny. This is not a contract that would hold up over time in the court of law with a jury of your peers.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
The contract is NOT.. from the Casino...
The contract / law was written and enforced by the Massachusetts Gaming Commission
It is not contradictory
It does however protect the Casino
Because this is a common occurrence
ScolexSanford@reddit
Glad they're protecting the casinos.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Welcome to the real world kiddo.
penfoldsdarksecret@reddit
They were already in breach when they took his stake, yes?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope
The law / contract says it is solely OP'S responsibility
I shit you not... this exact situation... word for word... is covered in the self ban
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
Simon-Says69@reddit
You can put in a contract that you owe me your first-born child. Doesn't mean it would be legal for me to collect.
It's very obvious this is totally one-sided and abusive. A scam. And it'd be amazing if it held up in court. Well, really sad anyway, because that's just total bullshit.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
The contract is NOT written by the Casino...
It is a law / contract... with the State of Massachusetts
He has no recourse
penfoldsdarksecret@reddit
It does indeed. It seems unfair that you're allowed to bet, but must forfeit winnings, but that appears to be exactly the situation OP signed up for.
The only argument would seem to be that the requirement for recertification is unfair or overly arduous, and that would seem to be a long shot.
schmuckmulligan@reddit
Yeah, it's the kind of law you'd get if gambling lobbyists wrote the gambling harm-reduction law, which is presumably exactly what happened.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Ya the only issue is...
The people OP would complain to... wrote this haha
penfoldsdarksecret@reddit
Well no, it'd be to a court I guess
Stubborn_Amoeba@reddit
That does change things, but why would the scanner let them in? I guess that’s the only hope of getting anything from this. Voluntary exclusion should mean actual exclusion, not just being banned from winning if you do gamble.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Scanner doesn't check the state wide database
The ones at the cash out counter do
The contract he signed literally says they will take his money and keep his winnings if he returns
OP literally agreed to this
They wrote this rule because addicts are sneaking... because well.. their addicted lol... and they KNEW that at some point one will slip through the cracks either accidentally or purposely
Not to mention casino's have MUCH MORE than just gambling
OP self banned from the gambling floor not the Casino itself
But again that doesn't matter because the responsibility was always on OP
Then_Hearing_7652@reddit
Man, I hope you live by this standard yourself. Hope you never think anything is open to interpretation. I’m sure you read 86 pages of rental car agreements before you drive off. Etc.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Are you retarded?
Its not 86 pages...
Literally.... WORD FOR WORD.... this exact scenario is on THE FIRST PAGE
LMAO
Here... read for yourself:
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
UnethicalLifeProTips-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment was removed for violating rule 14: No reason to be a dick. Seriously, get therapy or fuck off.
EastinMalojinn@reddit
I can’t tell you how many times security has come to the poker table and removed someone who was on the self exclusion list and wasn’t clocked into the bravo using their players card. The cameras pick them up and however they ID people I don’t know nor do I know how many people who self excluded they miss but they can and do ID these people just from security cameras.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Yes regulars... that they recognize
OP had not gone for some time
EastinMalojinn@reddit
When I walk into the casino I generally don’t have to give any ID but if I turn and look at the little computer screen as I walk by, my DL pic is up with my name, DOB, and maybe some other info but my point is just that this isn’t a guessing game on the part of the casino. Part of your point is that a self excluded player can be in the casino long enough to hit a jackpot, and that they have rules to cover that situation which call for forfeiture of the winnings, which does make sense as well.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Homie
It doesn't matter..
Law / contract literally says OP is the sole person responsible
Contract is with the state not casino
He broke.. the.. rules.
That he asked for
EastinMalojinn@reddit
You’re arguing with me and I’m agreeing with you. I also agree with the other people who say you definitely work for one of these casinos or gaming control boards if you’re this invested in this.
ScolexSanford@reddit
Based on the margins they make, they damn well should. At the very minimum player card usage should double check with their database of the do not play player database.
If these things aren't the standard or expected by law, they should be and I hope stories like this make sure they are.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
They will not
ScolexSanford@reddit
You sound like Purdue pharma
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Ya, that me
Stubborn_Amoeba@reddit
Thanks for the explanation. I used to work in an Australian casino and our self exclusions were for the entire gaming floor. I didn’t realise others were different.
TSM-@reddit
Well, that's how it goes right. I now remember that was in the original post. The self-ban expiring is not technically a reinstatement despite it seeming to be the same thing.
Maybe the PR angle gets them some "go away" money under the condition they stop being annoying. Regardless of whether that's possible, they should be talking to an attorney not posting updates on Reddit.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
I mean they are talking on Reddit... because no lawyer will touch this haha
OP just an addict doing addict things
Scratch_King@reddit
And you're arguing on reddit with faceless strangers, who give zero fucks about your opinion.
You should get a better hobby. Just being an addict doing addict things yourself.
UnethicalLifeProTips-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment was removed for violating rule 14: No reason to be a dick. Seriously, get therapy or fuck off.
TSM-@reddit
Maybe they made it up after a big loss, who knows. Their account is dedicated to this issue.
Other people might read the comments years later, though, so for the sake of people reading it later, my advice stands. Lawyer up yesterday right
TheNorsemen777@reddit
I would say the better advice (for future people) is to read the damn contracts you sign haha
Especially when the answers are 2 seconds away on Google
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
notmyrealnameatleast@reddit
Notice this name everyone: TheNorsemen777
He is the one who is fighting tooth and nail to discredit the OP, telling everyone he is an addict and a crybaby etc.
TheNorsemen777 has written 65 comments in this thread in the last 6 hours, and answered so many people and argued so hard.
Why?
It's not normal to write 65 comments in one thread and in every comment trying to discredit someone.
This person doesn't act like a random person on the internet
TheNorsemen777@reddit
I'm home sick
And stupid people annoy me
Its not that deep boo
notmyrealnameatleast@reddit
Don't disrespect, sweetie
TheNorsemen777@reddit
This is the internet
Dont be a sensitive lil girl
I do what i want 😎
Retard
UnethicalLifeProTips-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment was removed for violating rule 14: No reason to be a dick. Seriously, get therapy or fuck off.
notmyrealnameatleast@reddit
Showing why we shouldn't listen to you, you're obviously making these 69 comments out of some sort of wish to keep others down.
Remember the name reading the rest of the comments and remember to give a downvote people.
T2LV@reddit
The thing is, you wouldn’t want a ban to end without reinstatement. Then you could just wake up on a whim and run into a casino. Often you need counselling or some cooling off period for the ban to end. It’s a very serious thing to self exclude from gambling and thus there should be hoops to get off it for the gamblers safety.
pennyraingoose@reddit
If it really is this serious, why would OP have been allowed back in the first place? Or any of the times before they'd been back and didn't win big? Where is the check at the door to make sure OP wasn't on the ban list?
Not arguing against the idea that there should be a hurdle to clear to get reinstated, but against the casino in this particular scenario.
It seems they had no problem letting OP back as long as OP was losing. Which seems pretty problematic from an anti-gabling-problem standpoint - the entire reason a self ban exists.
T2LV@reddit
You’re aware they are doing this as a service because they legally must? They are not required by law to prevent him access. No casino is.
However what is the rule at ALL casinos in the USA is that if someone is on a self exclusion list they MUST forfeit all winnings. It’s that simple.
Vanq86@reddit
The rule should include a clause that casinos must return all losses, plus interest, if they allow someone who hasn't been reinstated to gamble.
T2LV@reddit
There would be no way to track this and you’re missing the point. The intention is to make it as absolutely undesirable as possible to gamble. This is for gambling ADDICTS.
Vanq86@reddit
You don't understand gambling addiction if you think losing money is a deterrent.
T2LV@reddit
Not what I said. The deterrent is even if you can find a way to win, you don’t get to keep it. You can lose but never win.
4orust@reddit
The casino letting him in multiple times after the year was up seems to absolve op of having to file the reinstatement forms.
Simon-Says69@reddit
Yup, he was de-facto reinstated the first time they let him play again.
ayleidanthropologist@reddit
Seems that they must have taken his money every other time
pennyraingoose@reddit
This is my thought as well. The casino was behaving as though OP were reinstated, which may supersed the need for OP to complete some sort of reinstatement procedure. I'd for sure be talking to a gaming lawyer.
Then_Hearing_7652@reddit
I agree with this but it’s on the casino to ban his entry. Casinos scan IDs, they know who you are at a table, and they have facial recognition. When you let the guy in multiple times without incident, and take his losses, seems absurd to suddenly enforce it when they win. There’s a similar story like this at the MGM Grand Detroit (same company). https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/lawsuit-woman-wins-127k-mgm-grand-detroit-casino-refuses-pay-her
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope... sorry your wrong
The law / contract is specifically written that the sole responsibility is on OP
It literally states "Even if you are allowed on the floor... it is your sole responsibility to stop and self report yourself"
It then takes this a step further by EXPLICITLY stating:
"IF AND WHEN you are allowed on the floor... you forfeit ALL LOSSES... WAGERS... AND WINNINGS"
Literally word for word this exact situation is outlined
Here is everything OP agreed to:
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
ScolexSanford@reddit
Laws are written but changed everyday based on cases, facts and public interest. The more publicity this gets the more people can be aware of how piss poor the current laws are and how they should be revised.
leyline@reddit
The law is - in order to reduce gambling self harm - persons can sign up to be excluded from partaking in gambling. If they do, they voluntarily sign that the casino cannot pay them any winnings.
This, in the public interest, means that the person wanted to be deterred from gambling, so much so that they signed the agreement they can’t have any winnings.
What better, safer, gentler way can you deter a gambler more than - you can’t win! You can’t win - don’t gamble!
What public interest is there to have a gambling harm reduction measure, that has would let them still win, this would encourage gambling.
Vanq86@reddit
What benefit is gained from an anti-gambling law that allows you to continue gambling and only stops you from collecting large payouts? If losing money was an effective deterrent the problem gambler wouldn't be signing up for the exclusion in the first place.
leyline@reddit
Loss / risk aren’t the deterrent against “but I could win a life changing amount!”
The deterrent is: “You can’t win anything”
Now that you can’t win anything there is no positive factor to gamble.
How would you do it?
Vanq86@reddit
But it's not a deterrent if people are allowed to play anyway. The ritual act of gambling in and of itself is what's addictive, and the thrill of winning doesn't just come from cashing out. The policy is broken and predatory if it allows addicts to continue gambling and scratching their itch, and only denies them any material gain from trying to stop afterwards. Losing money isn't a deterrent for an addict, and preventing them from cashing out doesn't diminish the thrill they get from wagering on a result, the anticipation they feel when watching the reels spin, and the mild euphoria they experience whenever a line hits on the machine and the numbers on the screen go up.
A hallmark of the gambling addict is their inability to stop when they should, so there's undoubtedly more addicts out there in the exclusion program who just keep playing until they're broke every time, and the only reason they haven't had a confrontation like OP's is they simply haven't hit a large enough jackpot that they attempted to cash it out.
This makes me wonder how demanding the cash out process is. In the casinos near me there are automated machines for cashing out machine vouchers with small amounts (under one or two hundred dollars), with anything higher having to be handled manually at the cage where IDs can be checked, etc. Do casinos in MA have similar machines? How easy would it be to have someone else cash out for you? Could an addict leave the casino with a pocket full of chips and have someone else return to cash them out? If it's not difficult to get around the policy and cash out small amounts then it really is just a way to stop from having to pay out jackpots.
ScolexSanford@reddit
Precisely.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Yes... when they ars in the wrong..
They are NOT in the wrong...
They literally word for word have this covered in the law
This will go nowhere
Then_Hearing_7652@reddit
Man, you must be a shill for the casinos or something. Calling people retards. Arguing in defense of a corporation that doesn’t give a fuck about you. Being so black and white. Chill dude.
BriscoCounty-Sr@reddit
Be honest buddy since you made about 70 comments in their last thread: Do you own the casino?
Alarmed-Tour-8457@reddit (OP)
Lmaooo I literally just noticed how hard he is trying to be seen
T2LV@reddit
Because you’re whining about something that it meant to help people!
Simon-Says69@reddit
That shit isn't helping anybody but the casino.
The won't enforce the ban until you win. Will keep any winnings, and not warn you the scam is still running until you try to collect your winnings.
The whole thing is less than useless.
T2LV@reddit
This is literally Massachusetts law!! It is the law that they offer self exclusion, they have right to remove the individual but they are not legally bound to, individuals must request removal from the list and NO winnings are paid out until removed. This is state law! They aren’t scammers.
Vanq86@reddit
So the state law is the scam. Gotcha.
T2LV@reddit
Nope. As someone who has had a gambling problem, this is the only scenario I would want. Knowing no matter how much I win, I can’t claim anything is the most powerful deterrent. This is to protect the person and it’s very effective as long as people READ THE CONTRACT THEY ARE SIGNING.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Cope harder
Get some therapy and stop gambling your money away
TheNorsemen777@reddit
I fuckin wish LMAO
I just hate stupidity
And OP is spreading misinformation
dekrypto@reddit
If you’re still banned, shouldn’t you be able to reclaim your losses?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Not when the contract/ law specifically covers that
dekrypto@reddit
so the casino can take your money when you’re banned but not pay out winnings? Even when their system allowed you into the casino?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Yes
And no
Yes... the Casino can and will take your money if you get in the floor... you are warned of this when you sign the self ban...
It is to deter addicts from even entering... because why would you with a 100% fail guarantee
No.... their system didnt "allow" him... the front scanners only check for valid iD...
The cashout counter scanners however... do check the state wide ban database
Which is why OP was caught... when he tried to cash out
ScolexSanford@reddit
"It is to deter addicts from even entering... because why would you with a 100% fail guarantee"
Because they're addicts and logic is not present in attics behavior or thought process. That is why this is a self-corrosive and invalid stance.
If these are the laws I hope more case laws begins to challenge it and these cases are highly publicized help change this trash.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Precisely... and thats why they wrote the rule... to protect themselves... from fuckin addicts
It will not be challenged
OP simply needs to follow the fucking rules
dekrypto@reddit
Addicts that they profit from
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Woahhh a business... in it for profit 👁👄👁
Yup... i dont think its any surprise that
Casino's, liquor stores, gas stations, bars, clubs, dispensaries, ect
Profit off addicts...
First time outside?
dekrypto@reddit
lol saying I’m the one that needs to step outside when that is your response is hilarious. If the casinos are actively acknowledging addiction with self bans, then they should both not recognize winnings or losses.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Again... the self ban is with the state...
And OP is soley responsible for his addiction
Welcome to America.
dekrypto@reddit
It is not with the state in Nevada.
whisperingwavering@reddit
Clearly not banned if they were allowed to gamble and lose money but it’s only enforced when they win
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope.
That is in the law
OP is sole responsible
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
Simon-Says69@reddit
Yet they let him play, and took his money when he lost. So according to this contract, they owe him at least his loss back.
Seems like they're the ones that are in breech. Like you can't just selectively enforce such a contract. It's all or nothing.
He just might have a case.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Yup... which is stated they would do...
in the contract
That he agreed to
In fact.. asked them to.
The Casino CAN NOT be in breech... because the contract has nothing to do with them..
The contract is with the State of Massachusetts... NOT the Casino
notmyrealnameatleast@reddit
Notice this name everyone: TheNorsemen777
He is the one who is fighting tooth and nail to discredit the OP, telling everyone he is an addict and a crybaby etc.
TheNorsemen777 has written 65 comments in this thread in the last 6 hours, and answered so many people and argued so hard.
Why?
It's not normal to write 65 comments in one thread and in every comment trying to discredit someone.
This person doesn't act like a random person on the internet
chilli_cat@reddit
Keyword here is 'facts'
Nothing else matters
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Correct...
And the fact is... OP broke the rules
And is angry because he won... while breaking the rules
The Casino literally.... legally... can't cash him out
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
Background-Rope-2904@reddit
The casino accepting the bet is acknowledgement on their part. They took the bet so they need to honor it. I was with a guy who bet over the table limit and they tried to cap the payout. In the end he got every dime of winnings. Bad PR for the casino, regardless of who’s right and who’s wrong. It seems that casinos are desperate. End of an era for them.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No haha
The rules literally say "if you are allowed onto the floor... it is your responsibility to self report"
It then goes on to say " IF AND WHEN you make it in the floor.... you FORFEIT... ALL ... LOSSES.. WAGERS.. AND WINNINGS.
i shit you not... the law covers this exact scenario
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
TikiMonn@reddit
But he was allowed to keep gambling and they took his money to do so. If he wasn't reinstated, why was he allowed to gamble his money there to begin with? Wouldn't that be on the casino
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope..
This exact situation.. word for word.. is covered
Contract is also with the Gaming Commission not Casino
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope
OP literally agreed to this
OP is mad because he broke the rules
OP signed a contract with Massachusetts Gaming Commission
The very people who would help OP... wrote the law he broke
No case
BigMacTitties@reddit
If OP is being truthful about the casino letting him gamble but only enforcing the ban after he won, the casino is going to lose.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope... the contract literally covers this
Literally says "if you are allowed on the floor it is your OWN responsibility to self report"
Listen man ... the big expensive lawyers and law makers thr Casino paid to write this law are not dumb... lol
They wrote the law intentionally to protect the Casino
I mean LITERALLY..word for word.. this situation is in the contract
Take a look at everything he agreed to:
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
troutscockholster@reddit
You linked the contract not the relevant law. What is the relevant law?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Buddy... that is the law... LMAO
This comes straight from the State of Massachusetts Gaming Commission
The contract is the law... it comes from the State
troutscockholster@reddit
The law is the Frequently asked Questions page? Weird.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Are.... are you angry that they made an entire page to simplify the law?
They literally made the FAQ page so people (like OP) cant say... "well i didnt understand it"
It is right there... in VERY VERY clear and precise language.
Your weird homie
troutscockholster@reddit
lol, you sound angry bud, I am just confused why you would post the FAQ and claim that is the law. The actual law will have code/section etc.
TheIronSoldier2@reddit
If it's right there, you should be able to find the actual statute backing it up, no?
BigMacTitties@reddit
I don't see anywhere in that FAQ where it says, "If you walk onto the floor, present your player's club card, which is linked to your valid ID, play games and lose, we're going to keep your money, but if you win, we're also going to keep your money."
You can put whatever you want in a contract, but that doesn't make it legal. Furthermore, I don't know about MA, but in states that don't have the "blue pencil rule", if you write a contract with even one invalid provision, the entire contract becomes null and void.
Furthermore, the casino must make reasonable effort to prevent self-banned individuals from gaming.
They have cameras every where.
They have facial recognition software.
They have computer systems that are more than capable of alerting casino staff when scanning the player's club card of a banned individual.
The OP claims that he visited the Casino multiple times, before his big win, where he showed his players club card.
Hey states that he never used fake ID or a disguise. The casino never enforced their ban until he won big.
If he's telling the truth, then he can clearly make a case for estoppel and unjust enrichment.
He can probably make a case that the casino is intentionally allowing individuals with a disability of which the casino is very much aware--a literal inability to control their impulses--to use their facility and selectively enforcing the contract only when those vulnerable individuals lose, which opens the casino up to all sorts of liability.
I hope OP is telling the truth, and if he is, I hope the casino is shut down and some executives go to jail.
Teract@reddit
The FAQ is not what is signed. OP may have never seen the FAQ. For FAQ's sake, quit referencing the FAQ!
But yeah, it looks like OP is screwed.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
This is literally the paperwork they hand you
And read to you
When you sign the self ban...
So no.... i ... and the Gaming Commission... will not stop referencing the literal thing we are talking about
Teract@reddit
From the top of the FAQ:
FAQ your mother-FAQing FAQ
TheNorsemen777@reddit
You sir
Are retarded
Teract@reddit
So the contract OP signed and the regulations behind it are pretty solid as far as OP not being allowed to gamble. It's clear that when you get on the list, it's a self-exclusion that lasts for a minimum of the selected timeframe; after which you can apply to be removed from the exclusion list. Since OP didn't apply for removal, they were still technically banned and had to forfeit the winnings.
Here's the interesting bit: The winnings don't belong to OP or the casino. They must be given to the gaming commission within 45 days. That's the responsibility of the casinos, not OP.
Another interesting bit is that OP has 15 days from the date of forfeiture to submit a request to the commission contesting the forfeiture. And if OP was contesting his losses at a casino, the casino wouldn't get to keep the money, they'd have to give it to the gaming commission.
Lastly, the regulations covering casinos' responsibility have teeth. A casino can lose their license and be fined for knowingly or recklessly allowing someone on the list into a gaming area. The casinos have to create their own enforcement plans and have them approved by the gaming commission, and the regulations state that failure to follow the approved plans is essentially a failure to follow the regulations.
So OP is probably SOL when it comes to collecting the gambling winnings, but the casino won't want to get reported for failing to follow regulation either. A lawyer might be able to work out a settlement between OP and the casino in exchange for an NDA from OP, but I'm not sure on the legality there. Ie: The casino pays OP to keep quiet, not because OP "won" $65K.
IANAL, but here's my source
futureidk3@reddit
IANAL. There’s some logic to the fact that the Casino earned the benefit of him gambling despite the exclusion. Could this possibly be seen as a voluntary waiver of some sort?
Teract@reddit
I'm not sure I follow, which aspect are you thinking is a voluntary waiver?
futureidk3@reddit
I had the wrong presumption that the parties involved were the OP and the casino, where the casino had waived the banning by letting OP gamble and loose his money.
offlinesir@reddit
I think you might be right about the settlement part. Nonetheless, it looks like you did a bit of research here!
i_suckatjavascript@reddit
Yeah, best thing OP could do now is shut up and just let their lawyer do the communications moving forward. Just update us on the outcome, whether they get the money or not.
victor871129@reddit
Well suppose the OP wins the case, OP has a gambling mental problem so the money will go on paying the lawyers and he will lose the rest if he did not have debts in the first place. OP must work in a real job and sacrifice to get paid real money
RopePitiful5740@reddit
the norseman 777 is a cuck who is personally insulted by this guy just posting. i don’t think i’ve ever seen someone so diligent on trying to make everyone understand why he’s right. sometimes it’s not about being right. Sometimes it’s about listening and letting the person be heard.
Pinty220@reddit
Goes to show you can not trust casinos
Alarming_Flounder_19@reddit
I just want to know how you won that much by playing blackjack....you know for a blog or something like that of course not to attempt to replicate
BigGolonka@reddit
In my state you stay on the list until you request to be removed. If found on the property you are cited for trespassing. The scanners aren’t connected to the self exclusion list.
honuworld@reddit
The scanners aren’t connected to the self exclusion list.
This is stupid. How hard would it be to connect them? Something fishy here.
Callmedrexl@reddit
Casinos don't only offer gambling. They have shows and events as well. Do you really want them outing addicts at the door who are there for a show? Awk - Ward!
It's self exclusion, for fucks sake. How much hand holding do you expect? Sign up, stay out.
Teract@reddit
You're thinking about it the wrong way. Casinos are highly regulated businesses. The state only allows casinos to operate if they follow the rules. The MA self-exclusion regulations were designed as a tool to help gambling addicts. There's a reason people on the list aren't subject to fines for gambling, it would just hurt the addicts even worse. The regulations do subject casinos to fines and even shutdown for failing to follow the regs.
honuworld@reddit
Unless you are a casino on a native American reservation. They are not beholden to the rules and laws of the U.S. They make their own. They regularly fuck people over and there is not a damn thing you can do about it.
ThereHasToBeMore1387@reddit
Don't spend much time in casinos, but the one's I've been to have the gambling area physically separated from all the other entertainment like restaurants and you don't actually get scanned until you enter that area. If they actually cared about the problem, it would be incredibly easy to implement.
BigGolonka@reddit
The scanners are just checking your ID/age. I don't want the government making an internet-connected database of excluded people.
honuworld@reddit
It wouldn't be the government. It would be the casino. Scan your ID at the door, "Sorry, bud. You're on the exclusion list". The way it is, they get to have their cake and eat it too. You gamble in the casino, if you lose, they take your money. If you win, they take your money.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
HOLY SHIT
Someone who actually knows what they are talking about
This is exactly it... OP didnt complete the reinstatement process
booshie@reddit
I agree with you too, brother. I think everyone in this thread is just too stupid or maybe young to understand OP did this to himself and deserves nothing
trisanachandler@reddit
A lot of casino's only enforce the rules when you win. It's shitty, but common. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpIk8kG8hR4
TheNorsemen777@reddit
OP broke the rules
This is not on the Casino
trisanachandler@reddit
If they only enforce the rules when it's in their favor, then they're not concerned with the rules, just finding ways to avoid paying.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
The contract literally word for word says
"If you make it on the floor it is on you"
The "no cashing out self ban people" rule is to discourage addicts from going to gamble...
Like whyyyyy the fuckkkk would you gamble knowing it is 100% guaranteed you will not get your money
OP literally asked for this... and didnt follow the process for being reinstated
This is not on the Casino LMAO
Zacca@reddit
But isn't it weird to be allowed to cash in and not cash out?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No...
Especially when you have ALREADY been warned... that you are 100% guaranteed to not get winnings.
If OP burned $10k in his driveway... would you be giving him the same sympathy?
Because that is literally what he did here
Zacca@reddit
Not sure what you're talking about with the driveway. But I think it's weird that banned people are not stopped from playing.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Im saying you wouldn't be defending OP if he destroyed 10k....
But because OP destroyed it at a Casino... knowing full well he couldn't cash out... and your defending him
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
Zacca@reddit
He didn't destroy any money at all.
Teract@reddit
The voluntary self exclusion agreement is a result of the state's gaming commission's regulations. While OP is to blame for gambling and must self-report and forfeit winnings/losses, the regulation also requires casinos to prevent people on the list from entering gambling areas. Casinos can be fined and/or have their license revoked for knowingly or recklessly allowing someone on the list to gamble. Casinos are required to create a screening plan that must be approved by the commission and that plan carries all the weight of the gaming commission's regulations. That means if the casino doesn't follow their own approved plan, they are in violation of the regulations.
The casino must also forfeit the player's winnings/losses to the gaming commission when someone on the list is either caught or self-reports. So if a person on the list loses $50k to the casino, that person can self-report the incident and the casino will have to pay the commission the $50k. If a person on the list wins $50k and the casino withholds the winnings, they're supposed to report the incident and pay the commission the $50k. If the casino is pocketing the cash and not reporting, they'll end up losing their license and/or getting fined.
There's little risk for a casino to allow gamblers to gamble, and just collect the losses. It's riskier for a casino to withhold winnings; you get angry gamblers who can self-report and screw over the casino.
When you look at the full regulations, the voluntary self-excluders don't really have any consequence for breaking the agreement.. When the casino reports an incident or a person self-reports, no one is getting hauled off to jail or fined. On the other hand, every incident does require the casino to hand over all the player's winnings/losses, a commission review, and possible fines/license termination.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Good luck proving the casino knew who he was
(They didnt)
Everything else you said is null to this convo
Teract@reddit
OP said they confiscated his winnings and cited him being on the list as the reason. They knew who he was. With all the video cameras and player tracking that goes on in casinos, the casino will wind up providing all the evidence needed to prove they knew.
Even if they didn't know:
This is like a bar letting a minor drink. A bar must take reasonable steps to prevent minors from even being in the bar. A bar gets caught with a minor inside, or serving a minor? The bar is responsible. They should have been carding everyone who enters, and now the bar gets punished.
These regulations are designed to prevent casinos from preying on vulnerable people. The onus is on the casino to keep restricted peoples from even entering gambling areas, with penalties for violations. This isn't a criminal issue; where the burden of proof needs to reach beyond reasonable doubt. This is a regulatory board where the burden is much lower and proving they followed their own rules falls on the casino.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No dude...
They have to check the database when cashing out...
This is NOT like letting a minor drink... wtf?
HERE IS THE REAL ANALOGY:
OP is a drunk...
asks the town bars not to serve him...
they agree but say if he manages to come in unnoticed and drink... they are NOT responsible and its on OP to tell them who he is
OP agrees....
1 year later... OP returns and orders a drink...
Its a new waitress.. she doesn't know who OP is..
OP gets shitfaced and racks up a $100 bill
The waitress asks OP to pay off his tab and start a new tab
Once they run his card they find out he is self banned and stop serving him
THAT IS THE REAL ANALOGY
Teract@reddit
Nope. The gaming commission gives a minimum number of database access licenses to every casino precisely so everyone entering a gambling area will be checked. The commission expects casinos to run ID checks against this database and the involuntary list of excluded people
In your analogy, the waitress is required to report themselves to the liquor commission and give the $100 to the commission. Read the actual regulations I linked. It specifically says the casino has 45 days to give OPs money to the commission.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
That couldn't be farther from the truth LMAO
You have no idea what you are talking about
Believe whatever you want but what you just said couldn't be further from the truth
You literally just made that up LMAO
Teract@reddit
Code of Massachusetts Regulations. 205 CMR 133.06: Responsibilities of the Gaming Licensees:
thetaleofzeph@reddit
Given they rake in billions trading sweaty desperate hope for a slim chance at a fortune... not surprising.
Jerking_From_Home@reddit
I agree. There’s been many stories online about people getting the same exact rug pull.
trisanachandler@reddit
Legally you might be able to get back everything you spent if this is what they were using for denying the win. If they can't let you play, they can't take you money, but it's going to be expensive either way.
hello-jello@reddit
Media is fine - Did you talk to a lawyer?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
OP literally broke the rules
No one is going to entertain this nonsense
hello-jello@reddit
I'd disagree - There's still a case. Casino can't have it both ways. If the rule is to not let someone in to gamble and they do - that's also on them.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Sorry kiddo your wrong here
LITERALLY.. word for word.. this situation is outlined in the self ban
This is not the first time this situation has happenes... it is VERY VERY common
The contract literally says "if your allowed on the floor it is YOUR responsibility to self report"
It the goes on to state "IF AND WHEN you make it on the floor .... your forfeit ALL LOSSES, WAGERS.... AND WINNINGS"
OP...quite literally... asked for this
Here is everything he agreed to:
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
hello-jello@reddit
"kiddo" ?
Wow - you're a piece of shit eh?
UnethicalLifeProTips-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment was removed for violating rule 14: No reason to be a dick. Seriously, get therapy or fuck off.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Maybe dont be a sensitive lil girl?
Its the internet kiddo, grow some tougher skin.
Silent_Technology540@reddit
He’ll try and get on Joe Rogen his audience would eat this story up and the bad press would destroy the casino
Naptasticly@reddit
Better read the fine print of whatever document you signed when you banned yourself. It may come with an automatic reup unless you specifically intervene.
thrasher529@reddit
That’s exactly the case here. He says it in his original post that he never went through the process to be able to come back.
If you’re not allowed to gamble in their casino for whatever reason then they don’t have to pay out any winnings or refund any losses. You knew you weren’t allowed to gamble there and did anyway. You broke the rules you yourself signed up for. It’s not their fault you didn’t read the contract you signed when voluntarily banning yourself. It probably also stated clearly in the paperwork you signed that you are ineligible to gamble/win or collect any payouts until you fill out paperwork and sign that to unban yourself.
Think of it like this. If a 16 year old walks into a casino and puts money in a machine and wins. The casino isn’t going to pay out those winnings once they verify that he’s not eligible to win.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
This is exactly what happened
The document VERY CLEARLY states that OP is still banned until he completes the reinstatement process
Which... he did not
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
yoyotube@reddit
Of course they only care about the rules when he wins, the casino had no problem when he was spending his money. He shouldn't have been allowed on the floor to begin with.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
He was only caught because he tried to cash out...
The contract he agreed to.... literally says they will take his money gladly if he returns to the gambling floor
...and then it further states they will also keep his winnings
And OP gladly agreed to these terms
The responsibility was always on OP
He is just an addict
yoyotube@reddit
I understand that, the casino shouldn't have let him in to begin with. That doesnt mean its not also OPs fault.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Your not thinking critically here my man...
This... this is precisely why they made it a rule that "if you enter... we will keep ALL LOSSES...WAGERS... AND WINNINGS
why would you gamble if you have 100% guaranteed not getting any winnings...
The rule is there to discourage addicts from ever even entering...because why would you... when you literally can't gain and only lose...
The responsibility was always on OP
You can disagree with the system... but the facts are... OP is the sole person to blame and he agreed to these terms and conditions
yoyotube@reddit
I literally just said in the last comment its OPs fault. I understand why it happened, I just think its dumb...
LetsDOOT_THIS@reddit
Im sure OP won previously without the winnings revoked. They did not uphold the contract until it benefited them
TheNorsemen777@reddit
The contract is NOT with the Casino... it is with the State of Massachusetts Gaming Commission
The contract literally covers the Casino allowing people in
This is why they withold the winnings... because why would you gamble... if you are 100% guaranteed to not get your money... LMAO
OP broke the law...
The Casino is LITERALLY ... legally required... to NOT give the winnings
LetsDOOT_THIS@reddit
It could be seen as the casino not performing due diligence if theyre scanning them in and allowing them to gamble without confiscating ALL winnings. My point was OP must have won before and they didn't withhold winnings.
Def in lawyer territory tho to enforce but now im wondering about precedent
Legitimate-Survey748@reddit
Hey, wie versprochen hier ist der Link: 📲 t.me/jusptinn Nur für 🇩🇪 Spieler – keine Werbung, keine Bots.
Good_Community_6975@reddit
Degenerate gamblers are degenerates. No sympathy, don't care.
leo_douche_bags@reddit
Look what what MGM has done to people in Detroit. I refuse to step foot inside any of their properties. Fucking scam artists.
CommercialSky5917@reddit
Whole lot of wrong information in these comments.
The casino would face fines/disciplinary sanctions from the state for knowingly allowing self excluded players to gamble. Multiple violations would put their gaming license at risk. No casino is going to risk their license for your $200 when there are plenty of willing people in there blowing their life savings already.
The casino didn’t keep that money. When you sign the document to self exclude you agree that if you enter the casino during the ban period that you are trespassing and any gaming instruments (chips, tickets, jackpots) will immediately be confiscated and turned over to the state. It’s typically put into the fund the state utilizes for gambling addiction/awareness. The loss for the casino is the same whether you take the money or the state does.
I assure you they would rather you get it, as it would end up reinvested if you had.
The system at entrances isn’t to check for self exclusions, it’s to check for fraudulent IDs and confirm age. Self exclusion lists are checked when a person tries to obtain a player account or when they win a jackpot. In this case, they ran you through the states website at the same time they ran you through the IRS to see if you had offsets and OFAC to see if you’re a sanctioned individual.
You should contact the state gaming commission and request confirmation of dates of your ban. They can investigate your claims throughly by obtaining the surveillance video to confirm that the casino hadn’t identified you as a self excluded player prior to the jackpot. It’s very likely that this review already took place/video was already saved when you were escorted out.
Regardless of those findings, if your ban was active when you hit the jackpot you’re SOL and that money belongs to the state now. You’ll be lucky if you get away without a trespassing charge on top of it.
*note that gaming laws vary by state, however if they offer a self exclusion program, it’s likely that it’s similar to every other states. Check your local gaming laws for more information.
Source: Director at a casino.
xopher_425@reddit
Too bad OP won't read this. It's totally on them but they do not want to take any responsibility, and instead are just whining all over, trying to be the victim.
I hope they get help to beat their addiction.
xopher_425@reddit
And doesn't the fact that the contract he signed states that he had to apply (and I think he said he'd have to take some classes) to be able to gamble again - which he didn't do - mean the casino is not to blame?
Teract@reddit
The regs in MA also require casinos to pay player's losses to the gaming commission. If the gambler loses, the casino can't keep the money either. The regs also require casinos to create a plan to keep self-excluders out of gambling areas, the plan must be approved by the gaming commission, and failing to follow the approved plan is grounds for fines/license forfeiture.
The MA regs don't penalize self-excluders, other than to take away their winnings. A self-excluder who's caught gambling in a MA casino isn't subject to a trespassing charge anymore than any other gambler.
Obi_is_not_Dead@reddit
This should be the top comment.
T2LV@reddit
OP they followed Massachusetts law perfectly. You have zero case. Let it go.
xopher_425@reddit
Yeah, this is 100% OP's fault and problem, and they're trying to act like a victim. They need to grow up.
Alarmed-Tour-8457@reddit (OP)
Just recently got banned from a few threads due to the fact that they think that I’m trying to use this as a platform. I’m literally just doing the only thing I can telling my story. I reached out to several lawyers have contacted reporters. I have defended myself against the Internet trolls. I’m literally just fighting my own fight.
xopher_425@reddit
To be fair, you really should post the contract you signed, with the details about the reinstatement session you had to participate to be allowed to keep your money.
This was a you problem. I'm tired of seeing you whine about your inability to read contracts you signed, so I'm blocking after I post this and replies will, thankfully, be ignored.
Grow up.
Mammoth_Parsley_9640@reddit
I am NOT a lawyer. This is not legal advice. You should be able to get free consultation, and im willing to bet there may even be a lawyer out there willing to take your case for near nothing.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
1... it is not implied... the contract LITERALLY says "if you fail to complete the reinstatement process..YOU ARE STILL BANNED"... pretty straightforward
2... Estoppel would actually be against OP... He agreed.. and is now trying to change his mind and previous statements
3... this was OP'S sole responsibility... as per the contract
He has no leg to stand on
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
Mammoth_Parsley_9640@reddit
1) Courts may recognize that a casino waives enforcement of exclusion when they repeatedly allow a self-excluded individual to gamble, especially after the exclusion period has lapsed. If the patron scanned their ID and was admitted six or more times without issue, this can be seen as the casino implicitly revoking the ban through action or omission.
Similar precedent in Nevada and New Jersey: where casinos were told they cannot selectively enforce exclusion rules only after a player wins.
If the system allowed entry, and surveillance/staff didn't intervene, this can be framed as entrapment-like conduct.
2) A legal principle that prevents a party from asserting something contrary to what is implied by their previous actions. MGM’s repeated acceptance of the player could bar them from suddenly invoking the exclusion after a win.
3) This could be argued under Massachusetts consumer protection laws (Chapter 93A). Selectively applying policies only when the casino loses money might constitute unfair or deceptive conduct.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Your wrong
That Nevada case literally only happened because Nevada DID NOT have a law saying banned people cant take winnings...
Massachusetts DOES HAVE a law... the one i linked.. saying you forfeit ALL LOSSES... WAGERS.. AND WINNINGS
2...nope contract literally says even if they allow entry... OP is solely responsible
3.. it cant be under consumer protection... BECAUSE HE FUCKING ASKED AND AGREED TO THIS
Let me make this easier to understand:
OP... "hey i have a problem..i want to self ban"
Gaming Commission... "ok but if you are let in its on you and you CANT take winnings"
OP... "i completely agree with these rules"
Also OP.... "OMG I WON... i take it back!!!"
No case...
Mammoth_Parsley_9640@reddit
So let me get this straight. He goes 5 or 6 times before this. He uses his players' card per usual (so he claims.). He places presumably multiple losing bets, which the casino accepts.
This is not indicative to you of intent to breach the contract?
Mammoth_Parsley_9640@reddit
I would have deleted my comments if I were that guy as well. Luckily I screenshot all of his replies
TheNorsemen777@reddit
He DID NOT use a players card... just his iD... at the front scanners... which dont have access to that database.
The Casino doesn't know who he is at the table... it has been over a year since they saw him last
The contract again... is NOT WITH THE CASINO...
IT IS WITH THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS
and in this contract... it says OP is solely responsible to self report that he is a banned member to the Casino...
It then further states that EVEN IF he manages to gamble... he will ... FORFEIT ALL LOSSES.. WAGERS.. AND WINNINGS"
idk how more clear that could be man
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
Background-Rope-2904@reddit
If a bar serves an underage drinker and they subsequently cause bodily harm, is that bar liable or can simply say that that person violated the law and as a result they claim no responsibility? Analogies suck, but that one comes to mind.
Background-Rope-2904@reddit
It’s a catch 22 bc by not paying them out they are acknowledging violation of their agreement then. He could probably sue them for much more than $65k. You can’t claim one side of the argument but ignore the other. To be clear, I’m not an advocate for gambling problems, but they’ve played a part in not enforcing their own policy.
Bereket_Sibhat@reddit
This is how life works, you’re “good” until you win then you’re banned.
jfjfjjdhdbsbsbsb@reddit
If $65k is that life changing you’re lying about the ban and an addict.
lurkinginthefold@reddit
THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS
mfunebre@reddit
This post was written by AI. Why?
Alarmed-Tour-8457@reddit (OP)
To be honest, it was just edited with AI because I’m not the best writer and I know how when you post things if it’s bad grammar, the content is missed
Kelly_HRperson@reddit
It's starting to become the other way. I'd happily read text written by a human regardless, but as soon as I notice a fucking robot is involved I'm out.
ChangeTheGameNH@reddit
I got beat for an almost $11,000 bonus on a slot machine there in early 2020, the weekend before Covid shut everything down. When they came over to verify, they said the machine “glitched.”
SnooMarzipans436@reddit
They can legally do this? That REALLY feels like it should be explicitly illegal lol
novagenesis@reddit
This has been the law since forever. Machines malfunctioning invalidate a win. They should've been clearer about exactly what glitched, but $11k isn't THAT much for a casino. I'm not aware of some conspiracy to reject all $10k+ wins because that would lose too much.
Regarding the above person, they probably just got REALLY fucking unlucky. But if the machine won't validate the win, it counts as a glitch for the casino.
ChangeTheGameNH@reddit
Wanna know the best part? I was 42 at the time, and it was my first time in a casino. Ever. Haven’t been back since.
novagenesis@reddit
I don't blame you. It royally sucks. I don't go to casinos myself because they're just a toilet for money anyway.
But I do know a little about them because I love the math and the tech behind the machines. And because I've gotten to spend some time with IT from casinos.
ThatSandwich@reddit
It probably is, and this is when you should pull out your phone and calmly record their actions. Politely leave the premises when asked and promptly call a lawyer that specializes in gaming law.
The machines are designed and built to regulatory standards, if there was a "glitch" it would need to be filed with the state.
HoustonBOFH@reddit
It is to the point now that we all need full time body cams. Just in time for AI to make all video evidence questionable...
No_Swim_9237@reddit
Jfc how savagely accurate and unfortunate that is.. can't wait until half (more??) of OF is Ai models.. I don't really gaf about OF, but think about how much of the internet is porn already! Can you imagine the coming age of ai bloat? Once it REALLY gets going, we're still in super early stages overall.. Scary stuff, I don't want that. Also, yes, even so, record cops, casinos, corporate bs, any interaction where someone could potentially be trying to dick you over or falsify the interaction after the fact. Don't trust their cameras to not lose footage suddenly. Stay safe out there, and please, for everyone's health and sanity, get out there and talk to other humans without the internet in between us.
ThatSandwich@reddit
There are ways to add additional methods of validating authenticity of video files.
Similar to how we fight counterfeit bills, they're not difficult to implement but take lots of cooperation between many companies and regulatory entities.
Similar to encryption, it can be impossible to falsify the data that proves authenticity as you would need the original key that it was created with that would be unique to each camera.
Then_Hearing_7652@reddit
Gaming law lawyers seem few and far between
smallbluetext@reddit
They dont allow phones and specifically say you cant record the machines so I agree you should try but this will likely result in them pushing you out faster.
Serenity_557@reddit
I'd actually love to see a lawyer take on the rules banning recording in places where they explicitly record things.. "No recording allowed, but also you have to consent to being recorded" just seems.. Wrong.
Yorgonemarsonb@reddit
It’s a private business that can enforce any arbitrary rules they want including allowing themselves to record while not allowing customers to do the same.
It’s the same shit as masks.
Serenity_557@reddit
Legally it's never been tried in courts. ISPs have tried to claim recording their phone calls is prohobited in the past and have actively refused to consent to it, but always settled when courts got brought up.
Being a private business doesn't mean you can make any implicit contract and it's inherently legal- there are still consumer rights- which is why I'd love to see it brought to court.
Recording is a very specific part of law, and the key here is everyone on premises has consented to being recorded including all customers and employees, yet they're removing only your ability to record. The mask enforcement is very, very different, with clear potential dangers for the people who work there. One sided recording is a legal grey area that hasn't, AFAIK, been challenged in courts, and I'd love to see that change.
ThatSandwich@reddit
You can still record audio. You're in a place with very little expectation of privacy, so I don't think consent laws would really apply here either.
UltimaCaitSith@reddit
The state departments that oversee casinos are under complete regulatory capture. They side with the casinos 100% of the time.
breakfastpitchblende@reddit
This is an extremely important point, OP. Criminally it might not go anywhere but if it gets them into a state regulatory jam that could affect their license to operate, they might see reason. If their machine has a “glitch”, was it taken out of service for maintenance? How often do they see these glitches?
That said, if it’s a sovereign casino, I’m not sure if that would be handled by the tribe’s elders or federally.
dratseb@reddit
They can if the government isn’t enforcing the laws
zefy_zef@reddit
Hell yeah dude, get that dough! Then take this as a sign and actually stop! :D Good luck to you.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
OP broke the rules
He has zero recourse
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
TheHumanPickleRick@reddit
Dude how are you still here commenting nearly the same thing on every single comment? All you've done is gone on a tirade against OP for the past 7 hours. Did OP piss in your shoes or something?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
This program is made to help people
OP is misrepresentating the facts of the matter
I am 50/50 trying to inform people and show that OP is an idiot
His posts keep popping up every time he makes a new one on every sub he can
And i am sick rn and have fuck all to do
zefy_zef@reddit
Well, you didn't reply to me up there. AThis is what I found about estoppel:
Does that apply here? Genuinely don't know, but it kinda looks like it. "party" being the casino in this respect.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
It applies... but AGAINST OP... lol
OP agreed to comply by these very specific rules and regulations
OP is now saying.. essentially.. the opposite of what he agreed to
zefy_zef@reddit
I think you misunderstand. The casino previously allowed the person to gamble, regardless of the agreement. They should not have done that. If they had stopped the person then and said "what are you doing, you said you didn't want to gamble anymore dude!" - great. That's literally the thing OP wanted. In case they weren't able to control their urge to gamble, there's supposed to be a safeguard in place.
Instead, they ignored that and allowed him to gamble, despite knowing he had a problem (they also entered into the agreement). They can't all of a sudden now say that the person shouldn't have gambled so they don't get to keep the money, when they previously allowed such behaviour.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
I literally have a degree in this lol
The contract literally says OP cant hold the Casino accountable
And that OP is solely responsible
Idk how much more clear and simple that can be.
They didnt know who he was
When they did
They kicked him out
But that doesn't matter.... because he literally agreed to take sole responsibility
And to forfeit his winnings
If you cant understand that then idk
Simon-Says69@reddit
Not in the least, obviously. It's a total scam.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Lol ok lil bro
OP agreed to this
"Hey i agree to not gamble or take winnings"
...."wait.. i actually won.. i take it back!"
Hop off his d
TheHumanPickleRick@reddit
Great, say it in a single comment. You posting shit calling OP an idiot who deserves this under every comment just makes you look obsessive. It's like you've undertaken a personal crusade to inform Reddit that one person forgot that a ban auto-renews. I mean, damn. Give it a rest. You're obsessed with this person.
zefy_zef@reddit
They allowed him to gamble while on the VSE.
burgundily@reddit
According to paragraph (3) here (above the notes), you have 15 days to contest it.
Drawkcab96@reddit
Does that mean they give you back all the money you bet? If that null and voids the payout it should mean your bets should refunded.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope
Contract says he forfeits everything
Its to deter addicts
OP needs a therapist
Drawkcab96@reddit
Ok, this has to be a bot. No one care this much about someone else’s gambling addiction. It’s comment like every 3 seconds.
Skeggy-@reddit
Yeah but I find it a bit more ridiculous that people seek out getting banned and then get upset at the casino.
That’s like me forfeiting my wages at work and then getting upset at my landlord when rent is due lol.
modsrdumbr@reddit
you better call saul.
Zero-Milk@reddit
Casinos are organized crime. Expecting them to do the right thing is... folly.
Then again, $65k is barely a squirt of piss to casino management, so if you make enough noise, I imagine theyll pay just to shut you up. Hope you get it.
Medical_Slide9245@reddit
Ya but why were they banned in the first place.
ugh_you_swine@reddit
They put themselves on a "don't let me gamble" list.
Simon-Says69@reddit
More like a scam where the casino keeps all your losses, but doesn't give out winnings. And doesn't bother to remind you of this.
Totally abusive bullshit that is less than useless.
Zero-Milk@reddit
He voluntarily banned himself because of his gambling addiction
Medical_Slide9245@reddit
I'd read that anywhere. My thought is did he volunteer like a criminal volunteers a confession for reduced punishment.
LolWhereAreWe@reddit
Says he voluntarily signed up for it, so I’d imagine it some sort of system to combat gambling addiction
SirPonix@reddit
Self-excluded. You can put yourself on a list to temporarily stop you from gambling, in some US states, or at least prevent you from winning apparently
HowYaLikeMeow@reddit
He said he signed up for it.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Not Casino's fault
OP literally agreed to this.
And now OP is Shocked Pikachu face
thetaleofzeph@reddit
You'd think letting him go around bragging about the win would be better publicity than losing 5 minutes of profit. But middle management incentives can destroy any big ideas.
fabricatedinterest@reddit
this is still the wrong sub for this, this is largely a thing you did to yourself by not reading the fine print, you have a gambling problem and probably need to stay out of casinos. good luck with all that tho
pick4player@reddit
Poker fraud alert radio
Selvane@reddit
I know you’re looking for an unethical tip, but an attorney would be able to help you here. Especially since there was a pattern of letting you gamble previously. Your previous entries to the casino would be recorded, and the casino would be forced to show that through discovery. Also, there is a good chance your attorney expenses would be paid for by the casino after you win (ask an atty in your local area)
But if you really want an unethical tip, then rob em I guess?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope
OP literally agreed to this
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
xologo@reddit
Their lawyers can beat up your lawyer.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Especially when OP LITERALLY agreed to this exact scenario
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
WaffleHouseSloot@reddit
Get the Boston stations involved if you can. Doesn't hurt to try. WHDH, WFXT, WCVB, WBZ, NBC Boston.
And WBZ radio.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No. LMAO
OP literally broke the rules
Rules he willingly agreed to
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
sirthunksalot@reddit
There is no case he signed up for the agreement and by law all his winnings are confiscated until he applies to be reinstated. Doesn't matter that his year was up. It's plainly written in what he signed. The law is working as it was designed. He is a gambling addict and winning 60k wasn't going to do him any favors.
Background-Rope-2904@reddit
If they allowed you to place the bet, then it’s on them.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No its not...
Because OP agreed to not hold them liable if he was an idiot and placed bets
The Casino ... legally... cant cash him out
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
GutturalMoose@reddit
Podcaster? No.
Lawyer? YES and stop posting about it! Gather all your info and get a consultation at a lawyer yesterday.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No lawyer will touch this
Op literally asked for this and agreed for this exact scenario
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
ZombieTestie@reddit
What is the self induced exlusion list or being banned all about? Did you get too handsy with a coctail waitress or something?
Dnorth001@reddit
Yeah not sure why you got downvoted so here’s an upvote LOL. I’d like to know also. Self exclusion vs what alternative??
ZeroZenithZeta@reddit
I feel like the words Self and Exclusion are pretty good at explaining the concepts behind them to anyone that made it out of middle school
Dnorth001@reddit
Well thats a shitty attitude /take. We aren’t asking what the words mean but what the reason for doing so is in a casino. Anyone w pre K schooling could understand that’s what we are asking here.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
OP is an addict.... he self banned himself so he doesn't do exactly what he is doing now
This is what he agreed to
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
SeanRankThaThird@reddit
I'd assume it's because it's your a gambling addict and want to quit the best way to do that would be try and ban yourself from going.
RusticBucket2@reddit
It’s like asking your plug to stop serving you.
ZombieTestie@reddit
Plug takes the money and doesn’t give you coke ‘for your own good’
__fujoshi@reddit
OP probably should not discuss why or how they were put on an exclusion list for this casino, since anything they say may be used against them in litigation.
Callmedrexl@reddit
They already said. It was voluntary. They self excluded but didn't check the fine print on the agreement. You gotta get your name removed if you want to go gambling again.
SweetBearCub@reddit
The self-exclusion list in most casinos is generally a mandate from the state gaming commissions, as a nod to problem gamblers. The theory is that problem gamblers who can bring themselves to admit it can put themselves on the list and be denied entry to prevent them from gambling. Most that I know of do ask how long you want to be on the list for, it's an all or nothing thing.
TheDragonReborn726@reddit
Usually a self exclusion is what gambling addicts sign up for so they literally keep themselves out of casinos.
schwelvis@reddit
Self exclusion generally occurs when someone realizes they have a problem si they ask the casino to not let them gamble anymore
ketchupguy12@reddit
Self exclusions usually mean OP had a gambling problem and voluntarily banned themselves from the casino
Machados@reddit
How about you just don't gamble you absolute addict
booshie@reddit
Unfuckingbelievable. You are an addict. Get some help dude. Rehab. Gamblers Anonymous. Even Ozempic is said to help with gambling addiction.
These posts are just sad. You shouldn’t get those wins, you don’t deserve it and should’ve never been there.
I hope you don’t have a wife and/kids because I have no doubt you’d destroy their lives with your financial recklessness. Nobody else deserves to be taken down with your stupid addiction.
The house always wins. You should be embarrassed.
flareshade2@reddit
I hope you get whats yours. Casinos really are horrible
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Hw literally asked for this lol
MessrMonsieur@reddit
Jesus Christ why are you replying to every single comment in this thread sucking down that boot?
cottoncandymandy@reddit
My partner put themselves on the list. That never stopped them from gambling or going into a casino as they dont check ids here to gamble. The whole thing is if you win, you can't get the money while on the list.
What state are you in?
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Yup this is exactly what happened
OP is in Massachusetts
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
cottoncandymandy@reddit
He didn't read this. I doubt he even knows he HAS to participate in a reinstatement session in order to he allowed to gamble again after putting yourself on the list.
He didn't read the fine print (or the main print)
The system is working exactly like it should. It is doing exactly what it should and what it says it does. This is what he signed up for.
They will absolutely let you come in and spend your money while you're on the list. There are other things there besides gambling. No one is checking IDs in the system until you win, and it says right there in the big print that if you get caught, you forfeit your winnings...
This isn't some system with facial recognition or anything. You know if you're supposed to be there or not. You put yourself on the list for a very specific amount of time and it's up to them to know that amount of time and what the requirements are for getting off the list that you put yourself on. This isn't on the casino.
It's a good system. It really helps many people.
dethsquad1521@reddit
MGM Springfield is a bad casino. Like really bad. I’m not surprised they did this to you.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
OP literally asked for this LMAK
dethsquad1521@reddit
Jesus Christ people, I understand that. I am literally ONLY just stating how bad MGM Springfield is compared to other casinos. This shit happens at every casino when people hit jackpots. Stop stating obvious shit that we already know on downvoted posts.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Ya but... did you know this is OP'S fault?
And not the Casino?
dethsquad1521@reddit
OP literally said he put himself on an exclusion list and STILL willingly went into a casino. No shit it’s his fault. Try gathering context clues bro, like really.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
But bro... did you stop to consider it is OP'S fault????
dethsquad1521@reddit
🤯🤯🤯I did not stop to consider it is OP’s fault
TheNorsemen777@reddit
😎🤘🤘🤘🤘
SweetBearCub@reddit
Please, do tell us what all the good casinos are. I'm willing to bet that most of not all of them are varying levels of bad.
dethsquad1521@reddit
Obviously all casinos are bad. This one is just much, MUCH, worse than say, Mohegan or Foxwoods.
Skeggy-@reddit
“Doesn’t feel like responsible gaming” coming from the guy who self banned from gambling in MA because he has a gambling problem. lol
Your agreement with MASS gaming commission states it’s not expired after that time period. That you have to formally reentry with the state gaming commission. Your ignorance to the agreement you put in place isn’t the casinos problem.
They’re scams. Just stay out of them like you told yourself 5 years ago.
Liambass@reddit
Sure, but if OPs winning bet is non valid, then all his losing bets were non valid too and therefore their steaks should be returned, right?
Skeggy-@reddit
No. The agreement is that OP will forfeit any money or wagering instruments (chips, electronic credits on the slot machine, pay vouchers, etc.).
The moment he exchanges money into credits or chips he already lost. Just like he asked for.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Yuupppp OP has been twisting the facts
Worthy-Of-Dignity@reddit
Sorry OP, but I agree with Skeggy
SlappKake@reddit
Man they fucking scammed you. Hope everything works out in the end
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope... because OP literally asked for this
Spiderbubble@reddit
And this shit is why I don't gamble. The house always wins, and even if they don't, they'll try to screw you out of your winnings.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
OP quite literally... asked for this
He literally self banned and didnt follow the reinstatement
Lumifly@reddit
I'm confused. How do you not know if the one year ban is up? You can find out when you signed up, right? Then it should be clear, open and shut case. You either fucked up or they are fucking you. There is no middle ground, right? It's a date. You can't fudge the date.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
It is clear... he fucked up
He was supposed to go through the reinstatement process
...he did not
Yorgonemarsonb@reddit
Seen a lot of stories about this predatory activity by casinos lately.
They will sit there and watch people who they know full well are on self implemented exclusion lists and then wait until you hit to kick you out and use it as an excuse to not give you your winnings. Despite letting you lose money.
If you haven’t contacted the state gaming commission, it’s probably your best Avenue. You can’t shame people without shame.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Predatory???...... LMAO
OP literally asked for this 💀
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
LoomLove@reddit
CONTACT AN ATTORNEY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Reddit is not the answer, here.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
No haha
OP literally asked and agreed to this
He literally has zero case
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/VSE-FAQs-03.23.23.pdf
T2LV@reddit
I will say I’m a little torn. While I see your ride entirely, from a policy perspective it makes sense. If I self excluded and knew I could sneak into a casino and keep my winnings, in a moment of weakness I may do it. I have a crypto gambling issue and a site I used, blocked my ability to withdraw. I knew that I could deposit funds, win as much as I could and they wouldn’t let me withdraw anything. It made me stop entirely because there was no scenario where I win as they would just confiscate my winnings. It really sucks this happened to you but it’s in the best interest of every gambling addict that they keep it otherwise anyone could just sneak into when they are self excluded and gamble.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Yup... OP is just an addict and mad that he broke the rules
commit10@reddit
Let's all send a quick email to one or more of the journalists letting them know that we're interested in the story and would love to know more because it's very interesting. That'll help the odds of coverage and resolution.
Alarmed-Tour-8457@reddit (OP)
Thisssssssssss
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Not this
TheNorsemen777@reddit
Nope
Because OP is leaving out the part where he didnt follow the rules for reinstatement
OP is still banned
By his own request.
TheNorsemen777@reddit
NO ONE FEELS BAD FOR YOU
YOU LITERALLY DID THIS TO YOURSELF
Spamming this everyday is not going to change the facts OP
YOU fucked up
No one else
Just you
atljar@reddit
LOL. I remember being a 21 or 22 year old and playing games in vegas. I was there for a couple hours, no issue. As soon as I hit like a $100 payout, i was instantly ID'ed to check my age. Same thing as you, just different story. They are going to let you give them money as long as you want, but when they have to pay out, then will find any excuse to not do so
BildoBaggens@reddit
People gave you a few legal options to look into. Who cares about the news, go get a lawyer.
krzykris11@reddit
Something tells me they wouldn't have given you back your losses. I'd talk to an attorney.
JordanPalatine@reddit
This is the way of the world. Lie to your insurance company, no problem, no issues. Until you have a serious claim, then they find the lie, rescind your insurance and move on.
honuworld@reddit
Or DON'T lie to your insurance company and watch them deny your claim anyway. Western capitalism has decreed that there is no sin you can commit in pursuit of profit.
StanielReddit@reddit
Yet another reason to never gamble!
Vaeon@reddit
Yeah, basically
floodassistant@reddit
Hi /u/Alarmed-Tour-8457! Thanks for posting to /r/UnethicalLifeProTips. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for the following reason:
If you have questions about this, please contact our mods via moderator mail rather than replying here. Thank you!