Why do people hate others on benefits so much?

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Glad-Business-5896@reddit

I hate working, so I don't begrudge you at all. I make more than enough to live, after I do my calculations, I only really need £800 per month (after bills and shit) to do basically whatever I want. I haven't looked into it much because of my background, I've always just assumed I'd never qualify for benefits (parents are millionaires). You do you, work, don't work, I don't give a shit and I don't know why so many people get so aggy about someone not working. If the option to just not work was available to me, I'd take it in a heart beat. Fuck work.

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Nosworthy@reddit

People get annoyed because their tax and NI contributions pay for the welfare bill. They are working to subsidise people who don't want to work.

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Glad-Business-5896@reddit

Your tax money most likely barely covers half a person's weekly P.I.P. Unless you're a top 1% earner, you have no right to whinge about what your tax money gets spent on, because your tax money barely makes a difference. Start earning over £150k and then yeah, have a moan. But if you pay 20% you're making no real contribution

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Nosworthy@reddit

Ok. But I'm still contributing into the system to pay for others who don't want to. Why doesn't everybody who earns under £150k decide we don't want to work and claim UC instead - who foots the bill then?

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Glad-Business-5896@reddit

"don't want to" - you don't know that. They might not be able to and the vast majority of people on benefits actually work, mate. Do the research instead of vocalising Daily Mail rhetoric. The reality is most of us take more out of the system than we put in. It's only people who pay enormous amounts of tax who can claim the opposite. And to answer your question, the people who foot the bill are the same people who foot the bill currently - The Bank of England. Your tax money is mostly used to pay off the interest on the loans we took out from them.

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Nosworthy@reddit

You literally said "I hate work, so I don't begrudge you at all"... "You do you, work, don't work, I don't give a shit".... "If the option to just not work was available to me I'd take it in a heartbeat. Fuck work". I have no issue whatsoever with the people who genuinely can't work due to disability, which is the sentiment throughout this post. For clarity, I'm referring to the people who have the option and think 'fuck work' and choose benefits instead. I thought that was obvious.

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Glad-Business-5896@reddit

If you want to get annoyed at an incredibly small group of people who do not affect your life in any meaningful way then that's up to you. Forgive and forget is really the best policy for you, don't let these people hold you back. All that resentment is unhealthy. Remember that you contribute fuck all

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Nosworthy@reddit

Nobody is holding me back and I'm not full of resentment, I literally said "people get annoyed because..." in response to you asking why people get annoyed.

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Glad-Business-5896@reddit

I never asked a question, I made a statement that I didn't understand why people got aggy. I was lying though, I do understand *why* people get aggy at it, what I should have said is I cannot relate to people who get aggy over it. I just see it as a non issue. The NHS costs the tax payer something like 300billion quid a year, that is where most of our taxes go, the few billion we give away in benefits barely scratches the surface.

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Wicksy1994@reddit

Because the tax rate in the UK is extremely high and most people do not see the resultant benefit. Police forces are near non-existent on the streets and seem to let crime run anock. NHS waiting lines are huge. Council tax charges whilst local area being neglected. Constant tax increases without seeing a resulting increase to service quality leaves people bitter. That’s without considering the highly publicised cases of benefit being taken advantage of, and I think most people know several people who do this because it is better for them than getting a job. I don’t think it’s right, but I think those are the reasons.

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ResplendentBear@reddit

>Because the tax rate in the UK is extremely high and most people do not see the resultant benefit This isn't true. Our tax levels are generally middle of the pack for developed countries, verging on the lower side. Part of the UK's problem is we want Scandinavian public services and American taxes. And our politicians refuse to have an honest conversation about this being totally impossible.

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Wicksy1994@reddit

I’d argue we certainly are on the high side, especially once you factor in all the addition taxes and don’t solely focus on personal income tax. The level of service in return definitely does not reflect the value placed in for a huge multitude of reasons, but primarily due to past financial mismanagement by those in charge. E.g. the cost of debt servicing, or PFI, for example.

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switch2591@reddit

Additionally, most of the general public who.do complain don't actually know what "benefits" actually are or the entire economic ecosystem surrounding them. So all they have to go on is tabloid headlines such as "family on benefits buy £2,000 television! What has Britain come to!" - but what the general public doesn't seem to understand is that; A) there are people on benefits who do work, however due to illness, being a part time carer or other outside issues they cannot work full time. As such they are allowed to claim benefits or universal credit to help out with their part-tine incomings and outgoings, However B) there are rules/limits on how much work one can do (or how much someone can earn) if they are working part time on benefits/universal credit - and that time/pay threshold is incredibly low (nowhere near national living wage/minimum wage). C) you can't just save money. There is a financial limit - universal credit, for example, you cannot have more than £6,000 in total to your name. This figure hasnt changed for over 10 years. D) payment systems are antiquated and burocratic, so for several months you could be underpaid, so you undertake more part time work to make up the difference (or you take on part time work at a higher pay) only to then be backpaid a large quantity of money by universal credit/benefits which brings your gross total of savings to over £6,000 - which means you are no longer eligible to be accepting payments. However this is a problem caused by universal credit not the recipient, so all of a sudden they need to get rid of that money which then results in headlines like "benefit family spend £2000 on new TV". If they could save it they would! However the government literally limits how much you can save, earn and work. Nobody who hasn't had to be on benefits, universal credit or the such knows the headache. The government fucks up and you (the person on benefits/UC) gets blamed.

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Wicksy1994@reddit

Yes absolutely the lack of education in general around tax and social contribution is a contributing factor. Well written and informative, thank you.

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mister_boi98@reddit

My mate says he can't work because of his ADHD and for a long time I believed him. However we was on holiday and he made no effort to help clean up or even wash up his cooking utensils. On the first day I thought fair enough as we had no cleaning supplies so I went and bought some. Told him we got stuff to clean now and he left his stuff in the sink for another 48 hours. I asked him to clean it up and he said no because he was chilling. I wanted to cook so I cleaned it up. The next morning he did some cooking and again didn't clean it up. He left it for another 24 hours and because I wanted to cook again I had to clean up his mess again. He is just lazy and his excuse is "well you didn't have to do that" and it just pisses me off. He ran out of money on day 3 so I ended up paying for everything. He owes me £200 and he said he would pay be back within 2 weeks. It's been 2 months and he's given me £40. He says he's got no money and I should understand his predicament because he is on benefits, and I don't really need it because I got £10k in the bank. Well now he has been in Amsterdam for a week getting stoned. I no longer consider him a friend, the only reason he doesn't work is because he is lazy and I hate it.

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Dry_Bodybuilder_1451@reddit

People that say they can't work because of ADHD are always lying

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mister_boi98@reddit

100% this is what I think now. Thing is I have worked with people with ADHD in management positions. This person in particular comes from a family that simply does not work. When we were teenagers I said I could get him a part time job at the restaurant I was working at and his mum kicked off saying she would get less benefits if he got employed there. About a year later I did get him a job washing up in the kitchen, about 12 hours a week. A bank holiday Monday comes along and he doesn't show up for work because he thinks he doesn't have to work bank holidays even though he was rota'ed to do so. He never showed up for any other shifts after that, which in someways looked bad on me for giving him a reference to work there. Sad thing is there are so many people like this in the country with mindset of I'm better off on benefits, and that mindset often (not always) spreads to their kids. Another ridiculous thing I found out, people who are vulnerable can get a free carers ticket to boomtown festival. My mate is just giving it to another friend. They are both going to go there and take a shit ton of drugs. I detest the idea of benefit scroungers getting so many free things, and opportunities. I see study and work schemes for people on benefits exclusively but not always a lot in the way for people making their own way through life.

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Brutal-Gentleman@reddit

True.. I'm severely ADHD and my symptoms are a hundred times worse when I'm not being productive. People at work hate me because I get more work done faster than them..

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DubbehD@reddit

I've seen people bragging that they've never worked a day in their lives, I've seen people bragging about playing the sick care system and getting more that i do working 150 hours a month, its easy to get annoyed with the lazy ones that are on benefits and abusing the system

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Repulsive_Sleep_159@reddit

You will get downvoted here but when you actually witness and see these things it is infuriating and a breakdown of the social contract.

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nohairday@reddit

The social contract that was torn up by successive governments. Councils got their funding slashed over decades. Events for the local area used to be a big thing and were free/cheap to attend. Most of them have been shuttered due to their obligations for social care and the like taking all the funding. I'm sure some people game the system. And I don't particularly have anything against them. It's not for me, but neither is being upper management or C-suite level. My mum was on benefits when I was a kid in the 80s. Let me tell you, there's nothing like a bit of honey on white bread for dinner followed by an early bedtime because the prepayment meter is about to run out to make you want to get out of that situation. Of course, that situation becomes increasingly difficult *to* get out of as time goes on and the benefit system gets ever harsher. People from a poor family aren't starting their working life with nothing. Quite often, they're starting with a deficit. Sorry. I digressed a little bit. My point was that there is constantly reducing benefit to following the social contract. Work with the system, and you too can spend 50%+ of your income on rent and houseshare until your late 30s if you're lucky. Then watch as your pension becomes increasingly worthless thanks to wage stagnation. Of course, should you be burgled, you can still rely on a swift and effective police response....

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Repulsive_Sleep_159@reddit

Yep, but the vast majority of people subscribe to it despite it worsening. Thus when someone “plays” the system it is even more infuriating.

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nohairday@reddit

That sounds to me like you should be fucked off at the system, really. If someone on my street was living the same quality lifestyle as me, without having to work, and they're happy like that? Fair fucking play.

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DubbehD@reddit

The system sucks, I grew up on a council estate, if it doesn't involve you, just don't worry about it. But yes I know of a few that enjoy their lifes, go on holiday, drive nice cars and have all those fancy devices. I know one guy who's on pip and just watches TV every minute of every day, has his shopping delivered and only leaves the house for about 10 hours a week over 2 days. #dolelife lol

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nohairday@reddit

If he's on PIP, that might be all he can manage for getting out. If people are committing fraud and someone wants to complain about it, I have no issues with that. On them when they get caught. But if someone is legitimately entitled to the benefits they're claiming? Fuck yeah, fill yer boots. After all. For all I know, I could be in an accident tomorrow that entitles me to PIP. And I wouldn't want it to be refused because in some people's heads, I'm just sitting around doing nothing. It always amuses me that the more vocal someone is about benefit scroungers and the like, the more likelihood that they will be the first to complain if they're ever put in a situation where they need to claim benefits and discover just how shite they are. "But I'm not a scrounger. I worked hard. I deserve it now!!!"

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DubbehD@reddit

You're getting the vibe wrong, as discussed above in my reply were talking about people playing the system, I can 100% tell you the guy I know that's on pip is faking.

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nohairday@reddit

I have to ask. How do you know? Has he told you? Because unless you know exactly what he's claiming PIP for, I'd say it's pretty hard to be 100% that he's faking. And, if you do know, then he can be reported and investigated.

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Repulsive_Sleep_159@reddit

Surely can be frustrated with both and it’s not that binary ?

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zone6isgreener@reddit

It's a bubble issue. Some people just don't move in those circles and they don't believe that others aren't of their mindset.

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running_on_fumes25@reddit

aNeCdOtEs aReNt eViDeNcE reddit cries

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DubbehD@reddit

👍

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RunawayPenguin89@reddit

Everyone knows 1 person doing it and they're so brazen about it too. They're the ones ballsing it up for everyone with a genuine need because it's easy to tar everyone with the same brush.

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Qyro@reddit

I don’t know anyone doing it, and as far as I’m aware I don’t know anyone who knows someone doing it either.

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SarkyMs@reddit

No we don't all know some one, but I do know plenty of "self employed" upper managers not paying enough tax, now THEY REALLY annoy me. Or corporations listing their head office as some tax haven and paying 50p tax on £10 million profit.

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JayR_97@reddit

This is why we can't have nice things. It's going to end up with benefits getting cut to basically zero because too many people took the piss

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Alarmed_Tiger5110@reddit

I always find these kinds of claims rather 'odd' - my wife's severely disabled, despite being in receipt of disability related benefits, we would still be financially better off if I went to work for 72 hours a month (possibly less), never mind 150 hours a month. Our entire entitlement, including the fact I receive Carers Allowance, and my wife gets the Limited Capability for Work premium, is less than take home pay for some on the over 21 minimum wage working 37.5 Hours a week. I can only assume the people you talk to have astronomical housing costs.

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HomeworkInevitable99@reddit

If there a million people doing that, that government could spend 5 billion to stop it, ie, to save the country 30 billion every year. Why don't they do it? Because the fraud is much lower than purple think it is.

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SunUsual550@reddit

I feel really conflicted about this because I'm a social worker who has seen first hand the damage that our inadequate welfare state has inflicted on people over the last 15 years or so. That said, I do agree that benefits shouldn't be an alternative to work and sadly while the majority of benefits claimants are genuine, far too many — and this embarrassingly includes members of my own family — are perfectly capable of working but simply don't want to. The system has become a soft touch for people who wish to cynically exploit it and the challenge has to be to create a system that supports those who need it properly and weeds out the shameless individuals who think they deserve to be paid to sit around watching Netflix all day.

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RegularWhiteShark@reddit

Yes but that’s the minority. The media and people on social media act like it’s the majority.

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BlackCatLuna@reddit

I don't think people hate those in genuine need of benefits, such as single parents or those with visible disabilities (let's put invisible ones aside because that's a rabbit hole). As an example, no one is going to be upset about the idea that someone with cancer could claim benefits (something pointed out in ads by Macmillan). I think that the problem is that benefits cheats treat the system like some kind of money glitch and have been the subject of reality TV for some time now. Think about how Mick Philpott was on various TV shows before he killed six of his kids trying to pin an arson on his mistress, who he has a custody hearing with. The press loves to drag people they don't think should be on benefits through the mud as well. There was a mother daughter pair in 2015 who did the rounds in the papers for saying they were happier living on benefits and being obese than being thin and working. They were being handed £34k between them, which at the time was equivalent to a pre-tax annual salary of £46k according to The Mail. These are the sorts of people who come to most people's minds when they think of people on the dole.

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Ecstatic_Ratio5997@reddit

I don’t hate people on benefits but I expect those that are, to give due to respect to those who are working. This means if you are on benefits, don’t make your neighbours lives a misery by playing music at all hours of the day and night and cause anti social behaviour. I live in council housing and some are on benefits and seem to cause a lot of noise, stopping those that are working from getting a decent nights sleep.

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CoffeeandaTwix@reddit

This doesn't just apply to benefits though. I remember in 2020, I was living in a fairly middle class area and working 12 hour plus shifts 6 days a week, the office desk jockeys who were paid a fortune on furlough to do nothing caused me a lot of those problems because they were drinking all day and night and shouting and playing music. The worst culprits are often students who are quite often subsidised by not only the state but also parents. When I was younger, we lived on a street with some student houses for a short while and it was a nightmare in every sense. They were fannies too... My brother who was 13 or 14 at the time asked them to shut the fuck up and they called the police out claiming the local toughs were threatening them... These were 20 year old 'men'

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Ecstatic_Ratio5997@reddit

Yeah that’s fair point.

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CoffeeandaTwix@reddit

Yeah but bellends exist across a range of circumstances. There could easily be bellends where you live that happen to be in work too.

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Alarmed_Tiger5110@reddit

True, when I lived in Hampshire an Estate Agent and her partner moved into the Council Flat above hours (damned if I know how, must have been on the housing list for years) - every Friday and Saturday without fail, the bastard would be up playing computer games at full volume until 3AM, sometimes later. Now as a gamer myself, I had no objection to him playing them, just wish the bugger used headphones.

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TooLittleGravitas@reddit

You are equating "people on benefits" with people not working- in fact, a lot of people on (working age) benefits are actually working. They need UC to have enough to live on. The economy of this country is broken.

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EverybodySayin@reddit

It's funny cause if you told those who work 9-5 to have a bit of respect for people who work evenings or nights they'll laugh at you and more or less tell you to fuck off.

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abek42@reddit

Blame the TV series around Benefit income families. Most of the people shown there were absolute bellends. It was rare to see genuine people who were just going through hard times.

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ArcTan_Pete@reddit

For many years, we have been taught that being on the dole/ benefits/ UC is the easy option and that this is a gateway to living a life of luxury at the taxpayers expense. as a result, every political party has seen it as 'its duty' to cut benefits..... again, and again, and again. people talk about others who abuse the system (usually assuming it's a majority) and assuming that the system can easily differentiate between the genuine cases and the abusers. They also assume that simply making it harder for everyone on benefits will disincentivise the 1% of abusers and make them get a wonderful well paid career. The 99% of claimants left behind - who rely on benefits - are just collateral damage in this war on the cheats. The people who have created this 'scrounger state' myth, are those who want you to focus on how the state treats people in need, rather than how the state treats people with great wealth

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BillyJoeDubuluw@reddit

The “career claimants” get disproportionate coverage and so those in employment are given a steady source of resentment as opposed to seeing a more balanced picture of the complexities. Truthfully, most working class people know somebody who knows somebody that is in “rude health” and thriving from never working a day in their lives and so all those claimants with various ailments and difficult circumstances get tarred with the same brush.

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notouttolunch@reddit

Interesting point. I’m surprised, now I think about it, how many people I know who are abusing benefits. It decreases as i get older but that’s probably because I don’t bother with such people anymore.

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Gullible_Wind_3777@reddit

People r fed up with scrounges, and shamefully tar everyone with the same brush. I do not work currently, as im studying. We have four children. (Yep there’s a husband lol ) he works full time. Self employed. We barely have anything to survive once the bills and shopping is paid for. No days out, no treats, no holidays nothing. Yet most who claim benefits are more well off than us, and are flying here n there on holidays, new cars, lush homes. And they do nothing for work at all. It’s a piss take. We do everything the way it’s intended yet we are the ones who struggle the most. We’ve had to make sure I study something worth while to earn more when I’m done ( hopefully ) always having to make sacrifices.

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scrotalsac69@reddit

Most people don't, you are just hearing the minority and the media. That said it does piss people off when some boast about blagging the system. Personally I think we should have ubi so that there is a standard safety net and people can work to build on that. I am aware that view is also contentious

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Jugular1@reddit

Implemented by a negative income tax. That way we can ditch the costs of making people jump through hoops to prove they deserve money. Then you spend on tax collectors. And they can start looking from the big tickets items on down.

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Khaleesi1536@reddit

UBI is the dream

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MrDavieT@reddit

Because we have have used the phrase ‘benefits’ when we SHOULD have been saying ‘Social Security Saving Net’

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ashyjay@reddit

It used to be social security, it’s why some still call it the Sosh. I still remember the logo that used to be printed on the giros.

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zone6isgreener@reddit

It used to be called insurance (hence NI) and you had to build up an entitlement. By making it non-contributory we have in effect ended up with benefits.

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AskUK-ModTeam@reddit

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Matticus95@reddit

It is and has always been a political tactic. The amount of people legitimately scamming benefits is minescule if you compare it to how much politicians cost us on a daily basis. It is a rhetoric purely designed out of right leaning parties uncontrollable fear of anything that might have roots in socialism.

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Any-Opportunity1229@reddit

Exactly this. I read a book called 'Health Communism' from the library and it talked about the historical background of how we came to see sick people as less worthy/a burden. I can't remember everything but it mentioned things like how unemployment was made illegal after the black plague so lower class people couldn't demand wages. It was also taught that people with disabilities sinned in their past life, so essentially they brought their current situation upon themselves. I still see that today, with an emphasis on personal responsibility, and just the blatant ableism everywhere all the time. I also remember that a disability like I have, mild chronic fatigue, its legitimately not possible for someone who hasn't experienced it really close up to get what I'm going through. They can try, they can get close, but they can't imagine it accurately. If people could actually understand what it's like to life a disabled life, they would have to confront how violent our current system is, how easily their whole lives and everything they work for could be ripped from them due to one accident or infection. I would argue this is why society seemingly wants disabled people to be invisible, or to go on a heroes journey, or wants people to believe we are all scroungers.

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Kixsian@reddit

buy the very definition of the scam the number is very inaccurate as they can only report on the cases that are caught.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

the figure is calculated based on rates of random fraud checks that result in proven fraud.

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Kixsian@reddit

sure i understand how the figure comes from, but what im stating is by its very nature the figure is missleading. because not only does it rely on the random check, it also relies on actually spotting the fraud from the legitimate person. Whcih on its own is a very duplicitous activity.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

nah you've misunderstood. I don't know if I can simplify it any further for you so I'll just restate it slightly differently. The figure is calculated based on rates of fraud detected through random checks. If 1% of random checks show fraud, then that is extrapolated. The sample size is large enough for the data to be reliable.

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pineappleshampoo@reddit

I’m not saying I agree with it, but I do have some insight into why, which is what you’re asking. I think people are exhausted, overworked, sick of working themselves to the bone for very little. It’s human nature to look next door and see someone who isn’t working living the same or perceived to be better standard of life without working. The whole ‘you wouldn’t last a day in my shoes’ argument when people have health problems they’re signed off for doesn’t really hold water either when so many people are working while dealing with those very same health problems, if that makes sense. Personally I don’t know anyone who begrudges short term benefits to tide someone over between jobs, or while they work on improving their health, it’s more bitterness I think towards people they perceive to be on benefits long term with no plan in sight to come off them. It’s not fair someone had a go at you when they don’t know your circumstances but I’m just explaining why there is such an anti-benefits mentality especially lately with the cost of living crisis. Humans have always looked down on others they feel are cheating or gaming the system, when they’re doing things ‘right’ and still struggling. It’s human nature.

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ShinyDiscoBallzz@reddit

People who pay taxes have the right to hate the people who they are paying to sit on their fat lazy backsides all day. If you have a genuine reason why you can't work then fair enough. But the vast majority are on the scam. Especially those who are not even British citizens

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

the DWP's on figures showed that the fraud rate was consistently lower than 1% before they merged the figures of fraud and error.

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zone6isgreener@reddit

The chicken and egg with those numbers is that they do very little in the way of investigation, and it is incredibly hard to prove. If you've ever lived in a rough area or have some members of the wider family who are a bit scummy then you'll know people swinging the lead. It can be very much a bubble thing whereby for someone with aspirations or doing okay then living like that seems an unlikely thing for anyone to set out to do, but if you are at the bottom of the labour market then minimum wage vs the state covering big ticket items like housing plus some cash in hand makes a lot of sense. The people who call LBC complaining or rant a little on here often know that sorts of people. If we are being honest there is a cohort of people who are unemployable and/or a cohort that will duck and dive like topsy to avoid work, and people with a few miles on the clock have seen it themselves.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

they do thousands of random checks in a year, the sample size is more than large enough for the data to be reliable when extrapolated to the set as a whole.

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zone6isgreener@reddit

And as I said, it is difficult to prove. In the 80s the bad back was the plague inflicting the population and now mental health of various forms is a great thing to cite because a doctor cannot disprove it. If someone sticks to a story and refuses to crack plus isn't a fool about it on facebook then the system has to move on to the next investigation.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

A doctor absolutely can rule out mental health problems where there aren't any. It's their job to do that because treatments carry quite significant risks which must be weighed against the benefits to the patient. Nobody is getting anything more than the bare minimum for low level depression managed by their GP.

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zone6isgreener@reddit

They really cannot. If someone insists that they struggle to leave the house or various other tales with sporadic outbursts then there's no test that disproves that.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

Have you ever had long term mental health support, been in hospital for it etc? IME It's quite a lot more rigorous than you're making out lol.

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zone6isgreener@reddit

Hospitalisation is not a requirement for benefits, and the assessments simply cannot be very rigorous (hence we also get grossly unfair judgements) because there's a massive stack of claimants therefore getting minutes of time compared to how a treatment centre would operate. Our MH is bursting at the seams so if someone tells the GP symptoms and gets it on record and then doesn't really engage with any services because they are after a tick box then the healthcare system itself isn't going to pursue them for in depth diagnostics.

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kenbaalow@reddit

What ignorant rubbish, where did you get your figures, off the back of a Reformflake packet? the vast majority of people on benefits include millions of working people who need benefits because UK wages are so poor while the cost of living is hight, like working tax credits, child tax credits, then there's people who'se circumstances change dramatically due to illness and bereveament in the family, such as the loss of an income provider. State pensions are also a benefit. Taxpayers pay in to a system and take out when there is need, this is how it works, for generations.

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Kixsian@reddit

i agree with most of what your saying except to correct you on 1 thing. Unless they have ILR they do not get benefits. Anyone here on a visa DOES NOT GET BENEFITS. it is stamped on our visas "No recourse to public funds" we only get the NHS that we pay for twice once with IHS and in our paycheck. Signed, An immigrant whos a citizen now.

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SnooSketches7308@reddit

Where do you get your data from?

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BadGraphicsSendHelp@reddit

Yeah…no. [https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2023-to-2024-estimates](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2023-to-2024-estimates)

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LadyWithABookOrTwo@reddit

Most ppl who receive benefits actually work. The UC just tops up their wage. This includes us single mothers who work hard to provide for our child but cant quite work full time hours because of childcare

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notactuallyabrownman@reddit

Found one.

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IridiumQuality@reddit

If people need benefits then I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is an ex friend of mine, who has literally never worked (he's 35) due to depression. He has a flat and this year he's already been to Gran Canaria and Benidorm. And he brags about it. Depression is also a bullshit excuse. I honestly hope the new benefit measures etc fuck him.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

depression kills.

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AttersH@reddit

Those with genuinely severe depression to the point they cannot work ever in their lives are not bragging about benefits paying for their holidays abroad. I work around medical claims (I do the finance bit) & have years of experience of medical seminars etc. Yes depression is real & awful. However, all evidence suggests that work & routine is highly beneficial to mental wellbeing & purpose in life. With medication, support & recovery, most people will benefit from some form of work, even just voluntary. To have never worked a day in your life suggests an illness to an extent you’d realistically struggle to leave your house.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

cyclic depression is a thing, people can have periods of flare-up and remission. The law accounts for this, for the purposes of benefits you'll need to meet the criteria for an award more than 50% of the time.

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AttersH@reddit

Still doesn’t have to exclude you from the workplace your whole life. We’ve got plenty of people on claim with us who manage quite severe depressive episodes around work. Employers legally have to make reasonable adjustments & contrary to popular opinion, most are actually pretty decent & supportive. I work with a colleague who has periods of depression, she manages the less severe times at work with a reduced workload/hours and then will have periods of 2-4 weeks off and then back in on reduced hours again until things level off. She is a huge advocate for how much work has kept her afloat & stopped her sinking all these years, thanks to routine, focus & those around her. She works part time as well, to help give her space each week. It’s complex for sure but I stand by the argument that no-one should be bragging about benefits paying for a holiday. Go on then quietly, sure. But bragging is a mega red flag to someone cheating the system.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

I brag about my free car to people if they're a bigot and I think it'll get a rise out of them. It's funny turning them a shade of beetroot. People's motivations are rarely as simple as they seem at first judgement. And yeah, depression doesn't have to exclude someone from work for life. If it's unfortunately persistent and severe enough that it does, that person should be supported. Don't you agree?

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AttersH@reddit

Yes. Benefits are a good thing. Unfortunately, the tiny minority spoil it for the large majority. And the tiny minority shout the loudest & get people’s backs up.

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IridiumQuality@reddit

I have depression. Been in psych hospitals. I've worked for 20 years.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

I'm happy for you that you're managing your depression in a way that works for you. Your experience is unique to you. Your friend's is unique to him.

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IridiumQuality@reddit

Right but I've also known him since he was 20. He's a piss take.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

maybe he just doesn't trust you enough to show his vulnerability to you.

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IridiumQuality@reddit

We were friends for 15 years. Do you just ignore half the stuff I say?

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

no, I just take into account the manner in which you're saying it.

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Any-Opportunity1229@reddit

I read a book called 'Health Communism' from the library and it talked about the historical background of how we came to see sick people as less worthy/a burden. I can't remember everything but it mentioned things like how unemployment was made illegal after the black plague so lower class people couldn't demand wages. It was also taught that people with disabilities sinned in their past life, so essentially they brought their current situation upon themselves. I still see that today, with an emphasis on personal responsibility, and just the blatant ableism. I also remember that a disability like I have, mild chronic fatigue, its legitimately not possible for someone who hasn't experienced it really close up to get what I'm going through. They can try, they can get close, but they can't. If people could actually understand what it's like to life like us, they would have to confront how violent out system is, how easily their whole lives and everything they work for could be ripped from them due to one accident or infection. I would argue this is why society seemingly wants disabled people to be invisible, or to go on a heroes journey, or wants people to believe we are all scroungers.

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Lonely-Job484@reddit

Almost nobody has an issue with people who genuinely cannot work. But I do also think it's easier to find a job than some think, if you're able bodied and the criteria is "any job".

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Parking_Criticism887@reddit

I’m sorry you feel this way, and I’m sorry people are insensitive — especially when they don’t know the full picture. I’m also on benefits, and I’m going to try to give you some perspective on why you might be getting those nasty messages. I’m an immigrant from Italy. The benefits system there is frowned upon and basically useless. I worked in the UK for 13 years in hospitality — 10 to 12 hours a day, 5 to 6 days a week. When I started getting really unwell, I kept going. I worked through nerve entrapment, two herniated discs, and even fits. I pushed through for three more years until someone finally told me I could get some help — because I’m not an animal. So I did. And with that support, I started studying to find a way around the problem and get a job from home. Would I still be able to work in hospitality in those conditions? Probably yes — I need to pay rent and survive. But it would be painful, cruel, and inhumane and it would likely paralyse me eventually. I’ve also paid plenty of taxes, so my soul is at peace — for now. The truth is, not everyone is “lucky” to be sick enough to be signed off. Many are too ashamed to even ask. A lot of people work through serious back problems and health issues. So when they hear about someone who “just can’t find work,” it hits a nerve. They feel it’s unfair. You can’t really blame them for that. That’s why, if you’re going to speak on internet about being on benefits, I think it helps to give some context — not to defend yourself, but out of respect for the people who are working, often through pain, and feeling like nobody sees them either. We owe them that. They’re working not just for themselves — they’re helping carry us too.

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nd1online@reddit

Kinda like this: https://preview.redd.it/fg6360iexw4f1.png?width=264&format=png&auto=webp&s=17c94e3300dce2de54d0a4adb545496b0e462b42

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PharahSupporter@reddit

This is literally irrelevant to the thread, no one mentioned immigration.

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PorkVale@reddit

Just think about it for a minute. I'm sure you'll realise why that person posted that image.

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UnlikelyPython@reddit

No, but it’s similar. Blaming those on benefits instead of immigrants is “kinda like this”…

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nd1online@reddit

Exactly. But I guess it is a very advance concept for some.

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nd1online@reddit

Yeah I couldn't find one that said "benefit claimers". But the idea is the same.

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porspeling@reddit

Doesn’t matter if the guy on the left is an immigrant or not it’s still relevant. It’s pitting the working class vs the poor instead of the people who are hoarding wealth.

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mentaldriver1581@reddit

I have been medically retired for 10 years now due to chronic illness, and have been receiving benefits. Much of it is disability pension that I paid into over many years. It’s not a huge amount, but I live within my means. I WISH I was healthy enough to work. I wish I was healthy enough to have more of a LIFE. I feel I’m merely existing at this point.

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RestaurantAntique497@reddit

Because there's people like 1 side of my family that are scroungers and have been able to fix the system to work in their favour that they don't need to work when they have no reason not to The rest of us chumps who go work for a living

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Pitiful_Carrot5349@reddit

>Like yea sure some people take the piss and can easily work but don't make an effort or do cash in hand jobs but that's like a small amount surely. Is it a small amount? What makes you think that? Since 2000 the [proportion of people on disability benefits has doubled](https://ifs.org.uk/publications/health-related-benefit-claims-post-pandemic-uk-trends-and-global-context). I don't think we've actually doubled the number of disabled people. So unless someone can provide some plausible explanation, my assumption is that at least half of them are taking the piss. The worst thing is that same link shows that the amount we spend on disability benefits has not doubled. With double the claimants, we can't afford to pay as much per claim. So the people who've suffered the most from this are the genuinely disabled.

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tiny-brit@reddit

When I still lived at home with my mum, we had neighbours who didn't work simply because they didn't want to. They claimed disability benefits even though they weren't disabled. They were quite open about it. Nice enough people, but it's pretty immoral to claim disability benefits you don't need simply because you don't want to work, when there are people who *can't* work and are genuinely in need of support. During Covid, PIP assessments changed from being mostly in person to mostly over the phone, which presumably makes it easier to claim you have X or Y disability. It looks like they're planning to increase the number of in person assessments again, which is good.

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PorkVale@reddit

Propaganda from birth aimed at distracting regular folk from realising they're being rinsed by the billionaire class.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit

They swallowed tabloid propaganda and don't bother to think critically. Being vocal about your situation is important to push back against the narrative though

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frankie_0924@reddit

I visited the UC office with my friend after her husband left her and she needed some advice. (I work in law and she was convinced she wouldn’t understand what was being asked of her). My friend is a HCA and because of young kids works 24 hours a week. There was a couple next to us who were arguing with the lady who works at the job centre saying they couldn’t live on £3k a month and could they not get more. I can see why it’s annoying when you’re working your backside off but someone is moaning that £3k a month isn’t enough!

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Only_Recording@reddit

It's not hard to get a job

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coffeewalnut08@reddit

It often is if you're anywhere outside of the southeast/London

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Redintegrate@reddit

Well, if everyone said it was too hard to get a job and used benefits instead, society couldn't function. With social housing being on the same estates and streets as private housing, and houses costing more than ever before - people have to work more than ever to be able to afford property. So to move in and have to go to work every day to be able to afford it, but when you come home there is someone who is unemployed living over the road from you who gets the same house in the same area as you, but doesn't have to earn it - it causes resentment.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit

It is too hard to get a job in some areas though. What are people to do when they apply endlessly and get the occasional interview but get zero offers?

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Evening-Term9993@reddit

People hate on benefits because they’ve been fed this idea that anyone getting help is lazy or scamming the system when in reality, most are just trying to survive in a broken economy. It’s easier for people to get mad at individuals than to admit the system is rigged. And yeah, a decent amount of people take the piss, but that doesn’t justify demonising everyone else who actually needs support. You're not the problem. The dookie UK economic system and the knee-jerk judgemental attitudes are.

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DeCyantist@reddit

I honestly don’t care - as long as I don’t need to pay taxes to subsidize able bodied working age adults. Those are the only ones who will get the flack. If you are one of those and you’re in between jobs, have savings for a rainy day.

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NoRi-r0ll@reddit

We don’t hate people who actually need benefits. We have a strong disdain for those who abuse and manipulate the benefits systems, taking resources away from those who truly need thems

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2Nothraki2Ded@reddit

Years and years of propaganda and othering. We have been conditioned to punch down, rather than looking up at the real crooks.

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notThaTblondie@reddit

Because if you convince people to look down to find their problems, people on benefits, immigrants, different religion and race, they won't look up to see the real reason they're struggling...the wealth hoarding at the top. People who are going out to work but still struggling to make ends meet are going to resent people who are getting it for free. And at the moment working people are really struggling. But the reality is that people with less than you aren't the reason you don't have enough, the people above you are.

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Own_Translator_8894@reddit

I have a friend who hasn’t worked in 15 years and he says himself that he’s taking the piss - there are many blaggers

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

anecdote, the data doesn't uphold what you're saying. [https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2023-to-2024-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2024](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2023-to-2024-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2024)

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zone6isgreener@reddit

The chicken and egg with those numbers is that they do very little in the way of investigation, and it is incredibly hard to prove.

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PKblaze@reddit

Because not everyone is in your boat and yet everyone gets tied with the same brush. I have no issue with things like PIP or UC when people are disabled, caught out of work or need support. The problem is you're lumped together with people who will never work a day in their life and sit around doing fuck all. My mother is someone that's worked all of her life, her health is declining and yet our neighbours all sit around all day, lounging out in the sun drinking. It's bullshit that she can't retire and the retirement age keeps going up whilst pieces of shit skirt the system.

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zone6isgreener@reddit

Even worse, the state pays their NI "stamp" so they are accruing pension rights. Plus even better, they'll pass the means testing to obtain pension credit on top including the WFA.

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PKblaze@reddit

Gotta love it. >!I hate this shit!<

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Vecchio_NightOwl@reddit

It’s all so maddening. My husband and I were talking about the same thing a couple days ago. Some people are so privileged they can’t understand what it’s like to not have a safety net. I think boomers literally don’t get it because when they were in their prime and working full time even if it was for $2.75 an hour (that was what my dad made in the 60’s when he got hired at Boeing) they could still afford a house, make a car payment, insurance….ect. Right now minimum wage won’t pay for a studio apartment - without help you’d be on the street - it wont even pay for electricity, food, a car payment, insurance, a cell phone bill (not to mention if you have medical bills or certain dietary restrictions which make things cost more). It just doesn’t. And people can’t just job jump over night, that is not a thing either. I worked in tech for 25 years and I never got a job overnight - Boomers don’t understand that times have changed. There are people out here that do agree with you.

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Gadgie2023@reddit

Crabs in a bucket mentality whipped up by a media that is on the pockets of the ultra wealthy. If the working class are fighting amongst themselves then they aren’t looking at the real problem of the ultra wealthy hoarding wealth, avoiding tax and influencing Government policy.

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TheSilkyBat@reddit

They've been trained to think that the devil is beneath you when it is always above. The guys at the top get more "free money" than all of us put together.

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Apidium@reddit

It's easier to punch down.

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AttersH@reddit

Unfortunately, a tiny minority (who shout the loudest) ruin it for the majority. A benefit system is something a decent society should have, to support those in desperate need at a time they need support. However, it becomes open to abuse & that’s what the media like to push & the narrative you hear.

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SamVimesBootTheory@reddit

Easier to direct your anger at the 'scroungers' rather than those in power

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CoffeeandaTwix@reddit

Class/snobbery still forms a large part of it. Before people say "well what about the ones who cheat the system" I would argue that that line is no different in going on about black people, Muslim people etc. and saying "well some are alright but those ones..." No different. If it weren't the case then the same people would be complaining about young adults who are heavily subsidised by parents. It isn't that different in any case; both are helped out by a subsidy granted by wont of birth or circumstance afforded by the fat of the land.

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SlightlyIncandescent@reddit

Classic capitalist vs socialist argument. UK leans more capitalist, especially in the last 40 or so years. Capitalist doesn't like to pay for something they don't directly see the benefit of and tends to see rich = hard working, poor = lazy. If everyone works hard we'll all have more money and have a better life. Socialists tend to feel that the rich need to realise that luck and privilege come into it as well so people with more money should pay more tax and people in more need should get more help. More equality meaning we have better lives.

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Davski88@reddit

I grew up on a council estate in north West London. There were people there that didn't work a day in the 20 years I knew them (and probably in the 20 since). No disabilities, no other reason not to work, just shameless work dodgers. The problem is those bastards give people that really need the support a bad name.

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running_on_fumes25@reddit

Because whilst billionaire tax dodging corporations aren't contributing what they need to, they're still a net positive to society - they provide jobs, goods and services. Meanwhile the family friend I know hasn't done a single day of work in over 25 years and is able to afford a car. Is he worse than the billionaire? Of course not, doesn't mean it's right that he should be provided with all of life's essentials and luxuries free of charge whilst the rest of us slog our guts out

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ImSaneHonest@reddit

Most people don't care and wouldn't even know people who are on benefits. Also, being on benefits doesn't mean you're unemployed, lots of people claim them. It's mostly the media and this person is nicking your hard earned cash. There are some that abuse and take the piss and they're the ones to easily make rage bait headlines for.

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durkheim98@reddit

Insecure, low-status people feel the need to punch down. When they're low in the pecking order that means people on benefits. Besides that they've been fed relentless right-wing tabloid propaganda for decades. Rich people want the working class to feel this way because benefits are a form of bargaining power. When there's a safety net for the working class to fall back on, it's difficult for employers to threaten them with absolute destitution.

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Awkward_Chain_7839@reddit

I’m annoyed at people who milk the system (much fewer than we realise if the hoops you have to jump through to get DLA etc. are anything to go by). If you genuinely need to claim jobseekers, DLA (or is it PIP now toe is there both?) then I have zero problem. If you’re genuinely entitled to it I encourage you to claim. My mam in law is disabled, entitled to claim for benefits and it took forever for us to convince her to. She was working part time until recently, despite being unable to do a lot.

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Euphoric_Magazine856@reddit

I've been continuously employed since I was 16 and I'm 42 now so I would say it's pretty easy to get a job.

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Sea-Truth3636@reddit

People like to feel superiour to others, they don't care if you're gueniunly disabled or severely chronically Ill, they look for anyone they can put down to feel better about themselves.

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Mountain-Choice-8421@reddit

In the era of social media people have ability to post whatever they want whenever they want.

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Remarkable_March_497@reddit

...because it tends to be a take take take attitude and a sense of entitlement. Constantly seeing people embellish situations, playing the system. I have absolutely no doubt there are lots of genuine cases that I'd empathise with. My personal experiences with colleagues for example have been murky, self centred and down right abusing the system. You can easily understand why people have an issue with some yet unfortunately group them all together.

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West_Category_4634@reddit

No issues with disabled people on benefits; or folks who genuinely hit a spot of bad luck/circumstance (.e.g widowed, job loss, critical illness). If anything, they should get more benefits. The problem is the folks who intentionally set themselves up to fail at life and stay on benefits forever. E.g. having 5 kids you can't afford, and no partmer or income; then expect the council to house you for free or massively subsidised and the taxman to cover your expenses for life.

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EvilRobotSteve@reddit

Most people on benefits are fine with me. If you have genuine health reasons, or you are actively looking for work then it’s all good, and anyone claiming otherwise is being unreasonable. The only time I dislike people on benefits are the ones that won’t take a perfectly valid job offer because they think it’s beneath them. I don’t care if you have a degree, you’re not too good to flip burgers or do a cleaning job if that’s all that you can find that’s hiring.

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Sudden_Star_5130@reddit

You don't like people having a go at you (and they shouldn't they don't understand your situation) so the first thing you do is make a post having a go at everyone on reddit, not very productive what so ever! Just keep at it and you will find your feet and ignore the ones who are having a go, it is a tough job market but something will come up if you keep trying however long it takes.

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Rude-Bookkeeper1644@reddit

Because there's a distinct difference between those who need benefits and those who abuse the system, which uncommonly is considered when benefits is raised as a talking point.

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Just_Juggernaut3232@reddit

because the grass is always greener on the other side.

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Sea_Reality9716@reddit

People seem to think they're given a decent amount. JSA at most is £92.05 a week, and UC is £400.14 a month. That's £768.34 a month. Rent on a room in my town is £600 a month. My parents live in a council property and their rent is £450 a month. So you get £318.34 for *everything* else. If you know people who have been sat "comfortably" in a council house with no job for an extended period, chances are they're disabled.

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Xelite7@reddit

No idea; they don't understand it and they think everyone is that one person stealing benefits. Which is not true needs to stop

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Wishmaster891@reddit

I find people who get angry at this kind of thing will get angry at anyhing from boat people, video games, x genre of music they don't like, x thing they don't like and so on

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CongealedBeanKingdom@reddit

Miserable stingy bastards hate the thought of someone getting 'something' that they aren't.

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bishibashi@reddit

Because some people are arseholes. I sometimes like to start a conversation about the state pension being the biggest benefit, over 50% of the total bill, just to wind them up.

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numputu@reddit

Because the Daily Heil said so.

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DMBear89@reddit

It’s an easy target for people to vent there frustrations on those most in need compared to taking there anger out on the real people who cause these problems in the first place. People like to feel powerful so shutting down someone on benefits is there way to do it .

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