Did I just kill this old PC?
Posted by Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit | vintagecomputing | View on Reddit | 80 comments
Hello! I have this old, yellowed, generic no-brand old desktop PC with Windows 95. It was our first desktop and we got it for free in the 2000s from a local school that was giving away old PCs. It was used for a few years and then enjoyed a long retirement until now: I wanted to try it and have a blast from the past so I turned it on and, to my surprise, it worked (the CMOS battery was dead, but I replaced it), but there was something really noisy. I thought it was the power supply fan but I'm not sure. I used it only for a few minutes, just for testing it, and it worked properly. I turned it on again a few days later, once again for a few minutes, and the loud noise stopped after a while.
Then things got worse: the next time I turned it on, it kept making that noise and froze after a minute or two. I was forced to shut it off by pressing the on/off button, which isn't good but unfortunately it was the only option. I tried once again and it froze almost immediately. Now it turns on, the LED lights on the front panel work, I can hear the fan (but not the unidentified noise) but I have no video signal. I suspect the hard disk died. Is there anything I can do to properly identify the issue? Is there any chance of reviving it or at least recovering data from the hard drive? Turning it on after 15+ years and seeing it was still alive was nice, but doing that just to see it die is frustrating...
frrson@reddit
In pee coloured computers, it's generally the power supply and within it, a failed capacitor. Easy to fix. However, in some cases several plastic items have become brittle, connectors among them.
Comprehensive-Bus299@reddit
These old PCs are noisy by default so you may have to be more specific. If you can't post to bios I agree with the top comments about the power supply. If you can post to bios it may be your hard disk. Old pc like this the fact it worked once is a good sign your boards caps are still good. The power supply caps are a common problem even today depending on the manufacture lol
AdeptnessPersonal156@reddit
When working on non-booting old crap, remove all cards but the video card. Unplug power to hard drive and cd drive. Remove and reset memory. Then try to start. If it starts, great, then add cards or plug in drives till it won't. If not it is mb, video card or power supply. Helps to have "known good" bits to test.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I will try, thank you!
boluserectus@reddit
Begin by measuring the power supply. In this video it is explained how; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBhxx3y3ZEY
For future reference, when working with older technology, always pinpoint problems. They will not go away automatically and probably will make extra problems. When pinpointed, you can decide if it worth the risk or not.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
Now I am even more confused, this video is like rocket science to me since I have no experience nor training in repairing electronics
boluserectus@reddit
Begin with opening it up, make pictures from all sides, and ask question :)
Did you watch the vide? Because then you will recognise the power plugs from the PSU to the mobo.
That's what you need to unplug and then measure the voltages coming out on certain pins.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
Measuring voltages is way beyond my skills, I'm no electrician unfortunately and I don't have a multimeter. Yes, I watched the video but it doesn't really help
boluserectus@reddit
Measuring voltages is easy as shit. Just like a battery, 1 pin on the minus, 1 pin on the plus, if you get less than 1V it's 'empty'. If you get the pins the wrong way around you'll negative values, no big deal. A multimeter to begin with can be bought at the dollar shop.
If you think you cannot do it, you will definitely not be able to do it and this is not a hobby for you. But if you just start and see how far you get, you build confidence. When stuck, make pictures and come and ask.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I don't have any electronics background and I definitely don't feel safe at tinkering with this stuff, especially PSUs because I don't know what I'm doing and I don't want to be electrocuted to death. I like old tech and retrogames but I don't know how to fix stuff if it breaks, I watch a lot of videos on YouTube but I don't really know the science behind that so repairing is not actually an option for me...
boluserectus@reddit
Maybe you just need someone to explain it to you.. It is _really_ easy, but I think I watched my dad as a kid(a bus driver, absolutely not technical) use a multimeter when I was a kid, so I measured batteries, adapters and such, for fun.
The coloured cables going into to motherboard have maximum 12 Volts, so no electrocution danger, but I understand you're hesitant.
Try to find some old friendly guy with time on his hand and ask him how to use a multimeter. Maybe find some computer club, many nerds there :)
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately computer clubs don't exist in my area, the only feasible way to learn how to fix electronics would be attending a specialized professional school and I'm long past due for that...
boluserectus@reddit
4 years ago I said the same, no computer clubs, now I found 4 in my area.
Try to think in solutions..
KSPhalaris@reddit
You mentioned that the computer was making noise. Can you describe the noise? Or post a video with sounds so we can hear it.
I know others have mentioned power supply, but really, power supplies don't typically make noise.
Based on the age of the machine, my first guess would be a failing/failed hard drive. Is the sound a repetitive clicking sound?
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
It doesn't make that sound any more, but it wasn't like a typical hard drive clicking, more like some kind of vibration.
KSPhalaris@reddit
The things that are going to vibrate are things that spin. Hard Drive, CD Drive, Fans, etc. It's unlikely a fan would prevent it from booting.
Is there a disk in the CD Drive? That might cause the vibration sound as it sounds up, but I'm guessing that the issue with the computer is something else. It is old. Have you checked the motherboard for electrolytic capacitors that have buldged and/or exploded?
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
CD drive is empty, no sign of corrosion on the motherboard and no leaking or bulging capacitors
KSPhalaris@reddit
You mentioned that the hard drive doesn't make that noise "anymore."
Did it make that noise? Did you replace the drive, or do something to quiet it down?
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I didn't replace it, but at this point I'm not even sure the noise was coming from the HD. It just stopped, but earlier today I turned it on again to check if the fans were spinning and I heard it again. It's probably from the PSU but I don't know what parts could make that noise, somebody said there could be dying capacitors
Fun-Toe-1582@reddit
whirring sound cd stuck in cd drive if it's the keyboard turn the keyboard over and on the non keyboard side the flat side give it a bunch of raps like you would a choking person
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
It's not the keyboard and the CD drive is empty
AudioVid3o@reddit
Sounds like a dead power supply to me, do you know if it uses an AT or an ATX power supply? If not, I can tell you how to identify it.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I don't know the difference between AT/ATX power supplies, but the PC still turns on so I guess the power supply isn't dead... I just have no signal and two LED lights on the front panel, one red and one green (they were both green when it worked properly)
fluffygryphon@reddit
AT power supplies are worth having rebuilt if they have gone. They are getting a bit rarer nowadays. Some people, like myself, rebuild em.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
Thank you all! I don't have a multimeter and I don't know how to fix it, and tinkering with a power supply without specific training/skills/experience seems a dangerous thing.
fluffygryphon@reddit
You are correct. I do not advise servicing a power supply without knowledge and experience. Great way to die or burn your house down. But they are worth saving by those with the know-how.
killersteak@reddit
even if the hdd was dead, you'd see bios post and 'no boot disk' message on screen. PSU struggling to produce enough power to go further into post makes sense.
-Tiiimo-@reddit
I'm pretty sure this is AT. Nonetheless check the connection to the motherboard and also check for a big round keyboard connector with 5 pin-holes on the back to confirm. I have this exact case as a tower and it's an AT system.
ThePenultimateNinja@reddit
The power supply may not be completely dead but it may have failed in a way that causes it to only partially work. For example, maybe the 12v rail is fine but the 5v rail is dead or vice versa.
For what it's worth, I had a work PC that kept freezing as you describe and then stopped working altogether, and it turned out to be the power supply.
AudioVid3o@reddit
Ok, well you still probably would have video with a bad hard drive, I'm wondering if your power supply failed and sent 12 volts down the 5 volt rail, damaging some parts of the computer, while still being able to show some signs of life. Do you happen to have a multimeter at your disposal? If you do, the could you identify if the PSU is AT or ATX? this is what the port that connects the psu to the motherboard looks like if it was either one.
ADDicT10N@reddit
The noise might have been boiling/burst capacitors, probably in the PSU but also maybe on the mainboard.
crakmundi@reddit
F if I don't see the px I don't know the problem and now I don't have time sorry good luck with it
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
Useless comment
crakmundi@reddit
Fun-Toe-1582@reddit
make sure you have the mouse plugged into the right color connector and the keyboard plugged into the right color connector if you are using ps2 connectors if using a usb mouse and keyboard please disregard
Fun-Toe-1582@reddit
if the cd try wont eject with the pc turned on there is a litttle pin hole on the front where you put the cd in usually under the power button stick a needle in there until it hits something solid and then hit the power button on the cd and push the pin in
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I just made a new post with pictures!
rjchute@reddit
Depending on what kind of CPU it has, possibly CPU fan gone bad? Or, maybe bad hard drive...
You will know more, and people here will be able help better, if you open it up and grab some pics.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I don't know what CPU it has, it just says "Socket 7". The CPU fan spins when powered up
randylush@reddit
Most PCs from 1995 will be able to work for some time without a CPU fan
csl905@reddit
A first step upon turning old equipment on is to verify the state of their power supply. I'd normally test the PSU with only a dummy load (a dead hdd, for example) connected to it, and measure the voltages. If they are in the specification range, it's ok to continue with further steps. Having the LED lights on does not correspond to a properly working PSU!
A hard drive failure won't cause the video signal to go away, you'd still see the initial POST information and most likely also a message about the HDD failure. So this is almost certainly not your problem (or not your only problem.)
Not having a video signal can easily be caused by a cooked graphics card or CPU (those can be easily caused by overheating or a faulty power supply), or a variety of other issues ranging from trivial (a loose connection) to "doesn't worth the effort" hard. Try removing components one-by-one to see if it helps.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I have no idea how to test the PSU, but I opened the case and powered it up; both fans spin and the HDD shows some signs of life, bust still no video.
Prestigious-Fig-5513@reddit
Maybe a loose connection, maybe the power supply.
Open the case. Power on, see what fans are spinning and touch the HDD to see if there's a vibration from it.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
They both spin and there is some HDD activity, but still no video
redditshreadit@reddit
Is the power supply fan spinning? CPU fan spinning?
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
Yes, they both spin
taggat@reddit
If you have to force it to shut down it probably wasn't the power supply, I was most likely a failing hard drive. I see it has a CD Rom drive if you have any install media you can try popping it in and seeing if it boots.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I don't have any install media unfortunately
MissingGhost@reddit
Test with a different power supply. Also visually inspect the motherboard for bulged capacitors.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
I don't have another power supply, the motherboard shows no sign of corrosion nor leaking/bulged capacitors
Fun-Toe-1582@reddit
keyboard key stuck ? mouse button stuck usually more than 50 % of the time when HD broke on my system it would constantly click click click click and if that a 386 or old 486 those drives are different on the older systems, floppy stuck
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
As far as I know, some keys don't work (keyboard is old and cheap)
C-Myers@reddit
I would put the hard drive in a separate doc to try to recover it. But you will still have video even with a bad hard drive.
Kalki_the_Tenth@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately I don't have a separate doc.
Kipio@reddit
I would agree with this assessment. OP isn't really clear on whether they are more concerned about the hardware working, or the data which is on the hard drive. But since they mentioned "at least recovering data from the hard drive", I would say the top priority is to get that data off of there as quickly as possible. Because even if there is only a blown PSU or something like that, a hard drive that old should be treated as though it could fail at any point. It shouldn't be used for data that someone wants to preserve.
new2bay@reddit
Yeah, the video issue is either a bad card, loose connection, or power issue.
PyroNine9@reddit
If you have no video, it's not the HD. It may be theRAM. No RAM=no BIOS running.
Open it up and remove and clean all of the RAM Re-seat it firmly and try again with the case open.
Make sure the CPU AND the case fans are turning.
Scatonthebrain@reddit
Them old hard drives can get pretty noisy especially if not working correctly. If it's Ide buy a usb adapter and try to recover files. Then if it was me I would get ask ide to sata adapter and run a sata ssd. I would prob use clone zilla to try and clone it. Assuming the drive is the issue.
KingDavid73@reddit
I'm guessing PSU
FlyByPC@reddit
Could be something as simple as a loose wire stopping the CPU fan from turning. Some systems won't boot if they don't detect the CPU fan spinning at a minimum RPM.
Long-Trash@reddit
open it up and check the fan on the CPU.
WebIntrepid3639@reddit
extract its golden and silver, watch a video about do it
miku_hatsunase@reddit
How much money do you even get from doing this? I imagine its like Kramer driving the empties across state lines with a side of cancer.
WebIntrepid3639@reddit
clorhidric acid does not cause cancer, destroys all, i said that like a joke
miku_hatsunase@reddit
HCL itself won't cause cancer, but what about the lead, cadmium, zinc, other fun stuff in a pre-ROHS computer let loose? I have no idea, honest question. (also properly disposing of HCL + 90's computer fluid)
WebIntrepid3639@reddit
cadmium is toxic if you inhale it, zinc is not toxic, the human body have zinc in its bones, lead are very toxic, but nitric acid dissolves all those materials, i know about quimic, i was joking about extract golden, quimics only can do it in special labs, it's a joke lol
AudioVid3o@reddit
No
WebIntrepid3639@reddit
nobody will use this pc actually, it's super obsolete, many persons will throw this to the trash or break it for extract valious elements like paladium, rodhium, silver, golden and also, copper, there are things that you can use in actual pcs like the hdd for do backups, or the cd reader, the wires may have uses like electronic proyects, around of the 78% of the people will throw this to the trash or the street, or, you can use the carcase for a new pc, that will be funny
AudioVid3o@reddit
Op intends to use it, so he shouldn't scrap it, it's as simple as that
WebIntrepid3639@reddit
i was joking about throw it to the street, he could not use components like cpu, motherboard or ram memory because are too old, fan coolers are usefull, carcase is very usable for build a pc, cdrom, hdd and sata or ide wires are usable for add more capacity, use cds, dvds or hdd like a usb, you did not understand me or i am bad saying things, there are adapters from ATX 24 pin to AT 12 pin, if the mobo is damaged, a cause may be that the battery throw acid if it is rechargable, a common fail in the half of 80's, if the ram slots are not chips, you can buy some modules in ebay, the problem will be how to connect a older vga to an actual dp
myself248@reddit
*hissssss*
WebIntrepid3639@reddit
why his if the golden and silver are from the computer, no from the person
randylush@reddit
BEGONE
WebIntrepid3639@reddit
if he hdd is died or near to dying, you can put it in a actual pc if it's sata, if it is ide, you need a ide to sata adapter, in the modern pc you can use a tool for recovery data, i don't know tools that helps you, you need to search online it
WebIntrepid3639@reddit
you can use this pc like a personal backup server or use its carcase for build a modern pc
audiodude5171@reddit
Sounds like a power supply issue to me
Redemptions@reddit
PC Troubleshooting 101, if it's making noise, 99.99% chance it's a moving part.
While there are capacitors and other items that can make noises when they're preparing to die, they usually don't make noises for very long before dying violently.
wix21@reddit
If the cmos check begins when you turn it on from cold the power supply and mb are working.
If you turn it on and no cmos check and no hd spin, it's likely your ps went bad.
if your CPU is equipped with a fan, and the fan goes bust the unit will power on . Usually you have a good 10 minutes before it crashes.
Post a video of a cold overnight start.
thespirit3@reddit
Check the CPU fan. It may have been failing, and depending on the BIOS, lack of CPU fan may or may not stop it from booting. Data on the HD will likely be recoverable, assuming it still spins up.
mega_ste@reddit
you would get the bios boot on screen if it was just the hard drisk.
I also suspect the psu is fried.