Digg's founders explain how they're building a site for humans in the AI era | TechCrunch
Posted by UnflinchingSugartits@reddit | RedditAlternatives | View on Reddit | 43 comments
Few things to unpack here which I'm not sure how I feel about:
"In addition to verifying humans, the founders envision a service where moderators and creators financially benefit from their efforts."
So is that a good or a bad thing ?
"Rose said that the site could also offer different levels of service, based on how likely someone was to be human.
If you signed up with a throw-away email address and used a VPN, for example, then maybe you would only be able to get recommendations or engage in some simpler ways. Or if you were anonymous and typed in a comment too quickly, the site could then ask you to take an extra step to prove your humanity — like verifying your phone number or even charging you a small fee if the number you provided was disposable, Rose said."
Charging a small fee if the number is disposable? I mean i guess I get it? But still. Isn't digg going to be anonymous? Or...?
"They’re envisioning communities where admins could turn the dials, so to speak, to verify that a poster is human before allowing them to join the conversation."
What do they mean where 'admins can turn the dial' don't they already have ENOUGH control?
triangularRectum420@reddit
What the fuck?
I use privacy-focused tools because I don't want Big Tech to track me across the web and sell all my data to advertisers. You're telling me that my choice to not be treated like a cash machine means that I cannot fully interact with the platform? You're expected to pay money or enter your phone number — a highly sensitive personal identifier which can be used to find out your real identity — to make a fucking comment?
Theory_of_Time@reddit
I think we're eventually going to want at least SOME online services and social medias with some kind of ID requirements. As much as I love my anonymity, for reddit, I personally would be okay with an alternative that's GUARANTEED humans, no bots.
cosmic_censor@reddit
You can verify a person and maintain their privacy using zero-knowledge proofs.
NoMoreVillains@reddit
Do you have some examples?
cosmic_censor@reddit
Zero Knowledge Identity Proof - Identity Management Institute®
Drone30389@reddit
Same, but it would only guarantee that all the bots are approved by the platform, or have found a way around their security. Would at least be less annoying though.
grapesnpretzels@reddit
I used to work in identity verification and the phone number is the most secure form of verification, even moreso than an ID. Wild but true.
It seems to me you’d set up an anonymous account with your phone number on Digg. I wonder if they might delete the number immediately after you’ve verified so it can’t be traced back to you, and then ask you to re verify every so often (eg once per year)
I think I’d probably sign up for this bc I’ve read that 50-60% of accounts are bots on here. It’s probably not that high, but I genuinely think it’s 20-30%. The founders started Reddit with mostly fake accounts after all.
I find this space sooooo interesting to say the least.
triangularRectum420@reddit
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that phone number verification is one of the most secure methods. What I disagreeing with, is the fact that it is mandatory to provide it to Digg and just take their word that they'll not mishandle it.
Just because something is more secure, does not mean it is justified. For example, one of the most effective ways to prevent IRL crime would be to mandate 24/7 trackers on everyone. Does this mean you'd be willing to have your location constantly streamed to the government?
grapesnpretzels@reddit
Haha yeah, I totally get it. Trusting them to delete the number is the problem.
In about 20 years, I have a feeling Apple's Digital ID will be widespread, and will be a decentralized identity on your phone that can be accessed for certain sites. And essentially you'd never pass your info to Digg, Digg would just get a token that says "verified digital ID" and that's that. I'd trust Apple more than many social media sites... I think.
But this will take forever because governments take forever, so alas, I think we're stuck with choosing between privacy and real humans unfortunately
runonandonandonanon@reddit
It's a potential solution to a real problem. I think they're expecting people who want to participate to do those things. I'm not sure if they've gotten down to the detail of whether you specifically will want to.
Apprehensive-Fun4181@reddit
LOL. It's nonsense, obviously. No one here has any valid ethics, that's not really possible for such people at this point.
Greg_Zeng@reddit
Searched for the Digg app on the Google Play Store. Could not locate it.
UnflinchingSugartits@reddit (OP)
I don't think it's ready or out yet
QueenAlucia@reddit
I'm so sick of all the AI garbage and bots I'm ready to give it a shot to be fair. I'm close to building my own new forum, invite only, to guarantee real human interactions... It's bad out there guys.
busymom0@reddit
Everything I have read and seen is giving me bad vibes.
Firstly, they seem to be heavily relying on AI for moderation and other stuff. Next, they seem to not want users have anonymity. Also, the few screenshots I have seen of their website makes them look like Facebook design wise. It's pretty bad.
UnflinchingSugartits@reddit (OP)
Yea me too. I resonate with everything you Said here. And I'm worried about the same
GadFlyBy@reddit
I was excited about this having some potential, but I’m absolutely out if this is just going to be a Reddit with Facebook characteristics.
UnflinchingSugartits@reddit (OP)
This is what I'm fearing
illuminatedtiger@reddit
Didn't Kevin Rose singlehandedly kill his website with one shitty redesign? I'll believe it when I see it.
anuanuanu@reddit
Another data farm, just different owners.
Got it.
spacenglish@reddit
Oof this seems all nice to ensure communities are more human. But if I sign up with all my credentials, I’ll be losing that privacy when I interact online
zero0n3@reddit
You can have one or the other.
So wouldn’t it make sense to have one site where it’s essentially only humans, but you’re speech could be uncovered (IE your username doesn’t need to be your name, but if a warrant dropped, the company can provide said info to authorities.).
And when I say that it’s only humans, I mean using a reputable REALID type product to do the sign up (where said certified 3rd party validates you with a license ID or passport).
You, as a user, are explicitly told this on sign up - this is a community of humans, bots are allowed, but controlled and tagged as bots.
Beliriel@reddit
Imagine being supportive of certain political ideas becomes a jailable offense. Not good.
zero0n3@reddit
Add on to this that no 3rd party tracking or cookies would be allowed or used by said site. No google analytics, etc. where they could link this sites cookie to a pattern to effectively ID you without going thru said sites legal process (subpoena or warrant)
aVarangian@reddit
Right? Imagine if spez started asking for phone numbers lol
oreosnatcher@reddit
Why would they have success when many other fails to get traffic? It's not 2011 anymore.
ParaNoxx@reddit
Yeah, I don’t buy it, I feel like the only way for any social media website to run at-scale with multimedia nowadays is if it has access to obscene stupid amounts of money for all that storage space and server maintenance, which WILL mean they will have to turn to investors, sell personal data, or any other currently trendy ways of making money, which nowadays means striking a deal with AI companies. It’s a quick and easy cash injection, which is why so many services are tacking it on like an afterthought.
With a couple specific exceptions, we aren’t in the 2000s anymore where opening and running a website with text or photos was something an Everyman could do with donations and banner ads. You have to pull unbelievable amounts of strings now in order to get enough money to host ANYTHING substantial.
The only way a site like this can work without walking back on all of its promises and eventually selling out for money is if its userbase is kept very small and very exclusive.
If you would have shown me this in like 2012 I might have been optimistic, but in this current state of the internet? In this current economy? lol no.
Passive_Bloke@reddit
They have identified the current problem with sites like Reddit. Bots and troll farms.
This is their fix.
If it works, yay. If not, we’ll wait for a new idea.
In the meantime, Reddit sucks
tunachilimac@reddit
I don't trust the new digg at all. They've spoken previously about how they used AI to help plan and design the site. They are partnering and integrating with worldcoin (Sam Altman run for-profit cryptocurrency where you go scan your biometrics for them in return for tokens).
Ohanian talks here about how he left because he didn't agree with Reddit's policy on hate speech. He was fine with it and defended it until he started dating Serena Williams and then the "chimpire" subs like coontown started attacking him and they were all banned within a few months. Fine and free speech for years until it affected him personally, then banned. I'm not defending the "chimpire" subs, I don't think they should have been allowed in the first place. This just illustrates that he's a typical tech bro. He was fine with them harassing others but the day it affected him suddenly it's a problem.
I know with the current state of AI/LLMs sites will need to find ways to ensure which content is actually human. The new digg isn't some sort of altruistic effort where they want to make a better internet for humans though. This is some already very wealthy and powerful techbros wanting to gain even more money and power by creating an internet with tiers of access where if you don't use their for-profit data-harvesting crypto/ai scheme you're stuck with restricted access.
MoarGhosts@reddit
What you’ve described is nice and idealistic but gives away that you know nothing whatsoever about what “AI” even is, and you’re conflating unrelated things. Annoying, but common Redditor take…
I’m a CS grad student working on a PhD to pursue AI-driven cancer research, which you’ll probably assume means stolen data or something else hilariously wrong
tunachilimac@reddit
Can you actually explain what I was wrong about or do you just try to insult people?
EmilieEasie@reddit
that guy seems to mostly go around being snarky on reddit which isn't behavior that gives me the impression they're working on anything worthwhile in their life
fastgriz@reddit
This is probably less about the user experience and more about not polluting their training data with AI content.
AmericanScream@reddit
Why is this sub talking about DIGG?
They were authoritarian before Reddit became that way, which is why people left Digg for Reddit.
Digg is NOT an alternative to Reddit.
ManagerOk9740@reddit
This sub completely turned to shit the past year. Just look at all the recent posts about things NOT relevant to Reddit. Like shitty Discord, 4chan, and LinkedIn alternatives.
All the GOOD contributors are gone. Either they left for their preferred Reddit alternative or they just gave up.
Now we're left with slop posters saying shit like "WHAT IF [INSERT SHITTY IDEA]". If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would like to believe that Reddit purposefully plants these boneheads to keep us from discussing the important stuff.
Aurelar@reddit
Bingo
topselection@reddit
All of this is overthinking it. The more rules, moderation, etc., the happier bots, trolls and secret agents are. Bad actors will thoroughly study such things and jump through all the flaming rings while normal people will go find something better to do.
If you throw a party, not many people are going to show up if you insist that they let you perform a cavity search at the door. And those who do, what kind of guests will they be.
coopers_recorder@reddit
I value my privacy but I'm also sick of bots and mods who clearly only do it because they're super invested in modding to push an agenda.
Maybe mods being able to make money for their efforts will be a good thing. Think about it. If shrinking communities by being a petty tyrant means less engagement, which means less money, less people who moderate communities will keep people like that on their mod team.
Edg-R@reddit
I’m all for it. It’s worth giving it a shot. Everyone here is ready to poopoo any new idea while complaining about Reddit.
They’re saying you can use the service anonymously for free though your account may be throttled or limited since it has no reputation and could be a bot account.
You can pay a small fee to remove some of those limitations.
Or you can prove that you’re human and use the full functionality.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either you allow full anonymous use and put up with bots or you add some safeguards.
Edg-R@reddit
I’m all for it. It’s worth giving it a shot. Everyone here is ready to poopoo any new idea while complaining about Reddit.
They’re saying you can use the service anonymously for free though your account may be throttled or limited since it has no reputation and could be a bot account.
You can pay a small fee to remove some of those limitations.
Or you can prove that you’re human and use the full functionality.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either you allow full anonymous use and put up with bots or you add some safeguards.
Edg-R@reddit
I’m all for it. It’s worth giving it a shot. Everyone here is ready to poopoo any new idea while complaining about Reddit.
They’re saying you can use the service anonymously for free though your account may be throttled or limited since it has no reputation and could be a bot account.
You can pay a small fee to remove some of those limitations.
Or you can prove that you’re human and use the full functionality.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either you allow full anonymous use and put up with bots or you add some safeguards.
Delicious_Ease2595@reddit
The downside with all these KYC is how much you give of your digital footprint
Hokulewa@reddit
Better to use behavioral analysis of posters behavior to score bot-like behavior, combined with user voting (bot or not) and let each user set their own tolerance for what they want to see...
known-bots,suspected bots, orno bots(with probably more variations for how useful the bot is found to be by users).