Tired of life in Germany after 4.5 years and want to vent (and go home)
Posted by Choice-Ad1477@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 305 comments
I moved from the UK at age 28 to Hamburg, Germany to work (English speaking workplace). I moved with no German. I have been here 4.5 years and am now 32 years old. I am very, very tired of living in this country.
After 4.5 years and thousands spent on German lessons, I can finally read German very well, but I still don't know any German people to actually speak with. So my speaking is bad (B2 level), and my listening not much better. Despite my 10000% intention from the outset not to end up in a parallel society and get to know "the real germany": I have ended up living in a parallel society and I don't know any German people. I don't even know how to know German people at this stage and I question whether or not it's actually possible at my stage in life. All my friends are foreigners, and they are good people.
I tried my best. I learned the language as well as I could (Passed B2 exam last year, learning C1 at the moment, not sure why I bother any more though). I joined a Verein for my sport that I was quite good at back home. I got a German girlfriend (though I later broke up with her). I put my best foot forward and a smile on my face and I tried my best. But life here is, I believe, shit as an immigrant, unless you just don't care about being a societal outcast. And I'm just so burnt out to the point that even if I know in my heart that to really make it in Germany I have to force myself to keep going to the Verein that I grew to hate, the church of the God that I don't believe in, the meetups full of men trying to fuck the one poor woman who joined, change my personality entirely into someone who enjoys things that I don't enjoy... then I can still "make it in Germany™"... except I just can't be bothered any more and I don't have the energy for it. I just want to go back to the UK, where the people are friendly and there's a life to be lived. Germany is just so fucking boring.
The people aren't even unfriendly per se, I actually believe German people are generally quite decent, nice and well meaning, they just don't care about you. And in day to day life, in German society itself, there's this slight bias in favour of shittiness and being shitty towards other people. Nobody will ever, ever go out of their way to be nice to you. But maybe 10% of Germans will absolutely go out of their way just to fuck you over and tell you how worthless they think you are. So there's a small bias. And overtime, that slight bias builds up. And in the end you end up living your life where basically you are tired of dealing with shitty German people (who are the minority) and just want everyone around you to fuck off.
And yes integration is 100% on you, the immigrant. Nobody will ever go out of their way in this country to make you feel welcome. Wilkommenskultur is pure, abject, veritable horseshit. Nobody at the Verein will actually be nice to you, nor include you, nor really make any real effort to get to you know. It's on YOU. YOU are the outsider and YOU nee to prove yourself to them. Fine. Maybe that's how it is for everyone. But I'm tired of this culture and I'm tired of making so much effort for basically absolutely no pay off whatsoever. If you aren't German, they just couldn't be less interested.
I just feel like I see no possible way to the life that I consider tolerable (let alone liveable) in this country. There's no route. I think it's actually impossible. The idea of dating in this country now scares me because the idea of being tied to this country and actually growing old here fills me with existential dread, because this isn't life. Life in Germany is not life. At least not for immigrants, or at least not for me.
Yes the UK is perhaps a shithole, but it's my shithole. And when I'm on my deathbed I highly doubt I'll be smiling to myself about how wonderful German housing is or how wonderful the Deutschlandticket is. I'll be thinking about the people I met and the lives I touched and interacted and the people who touched me. And there's nothing like that here. Life here is just a shadow of what life really ought to be, because it's a life without proper, joyful human interaction that makes life so enjoyable in the first place.
Legitimate-Action245@reddit
It's not just that.
Most places are reducing and shutting down social life further. The cafes close at 6pm.
You only get places to drink and eat but beyond that there is NOTHING you can do to enjoy your time after work. It's like the entire country retired early. Hell, even electronics shops close at 7pm now. No variety in shopping. Not much variety in food. Same old, same old.
Germans are generally decent people but the lifestyle just ruined their spirit.
Educational_Word_633@reddit
Do you mind sharing in what city you live?`This sounds very odd.
Legitimate-Action245@reddit
Except for Starbucks, most cafes in my area are owned by familypreneurs and close around 6pm since they are running their shops without shift changes. But even Backwerk closes around 7pm.
Saturn has reduced shifts and closes at 7pm. Exceptions apply to inner city and train stations only.
Most places also ban laptops so you don't sit for longer than 2 hours. Thalia cafe is the only place I enjoy right now.
Euphoric_eth@reddit
I feel like this is so opposite from my experience. Germany is known for its nightlife and never shutting down their clubs over the weekend. Maybe clubbing is not your vibe but there’s definitely stuff to do past 6pm in Germany lol. I’d say nightlife is the only thing that made me have fun while I lived/spent time back and forth from Berlin and other German cities.
P_Jamez@reddit
Germany is open much later than the uk
sabol_@reddit
As someone who sometimes is in germany, I have to say, we have this common experience where people actually go so far to get right into your business and write letters on your car or be a rude bastard purely because they want to park in the same space. Or just cold behaviour where you want to check the store 10min before closing time and you get a dirty look and warning even when it is allowed. All of this in like 3 days of being there even.
I feel like there’s a 10% of utter c*nt behaviour that country just allows, and it’s shocking to me each time our family ends up there how some people can be so brazenly unhappy and rude. It’s uncommon for where I live at least.
raven991_@reddit
Appearing at shop 10 minutes before closing is quite selfish, you don't care about emplyees
Educational_Word_633@reddit
this only happens in Germany you must know! Everywhere else employees love it <3
sabol_@reddit
Most employees just tell you that you can quickly take a look or a soft warning, not the utter brashness of Germans in just telling you to get out
Educational_Word_633@reddit
Lol? Have you ever worked in a store?
sabol_@reddit
Most people are actually kind of nice, except in Germany I guess.
Educational_Word_633@reddit
Im sure store staff love it when customers enter the store mere minutes before it closes - in every country except Germany!
sabol_@reddit
You know last time we did this? He said you can look for 5mins it’s perfectly fine, I just need to go after these 2 customers. Maybe you should join those store workers in Germany
Educational_Word_633@reddit
I worked as a store worker before and there is nothing worse than an entitled customer treating you like garbage. Its just common decency. Being surprised that some min-wage worker is not excited when you extend their working hours just shows how unempathic you are.
You are generalizing all of Germany from your one experience btw. Bigot.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
That's what I don't understand about Germany. They choose to be strictly private about all the things that would, at least ideally, be relatively public and common, and they are overtly public about that which should perhaps best be kept to a minimum.
ActProfessional3811@reddit
They used to have no google streetview until like 2022 lol very ornery culture
Jdgarza96@reddit
One reason in my opinion is because violence is so rare here in Germany. You can pretty much say whatever you want to someone and be as rude as you like, and punches will almost never be thrown.
I had to tell my German in-laws that when they visit America they can’t just mouth off to everyone and say what they like, because the chance for violence is significantly higher in bigger cities.
Unusual_Cockroach988@reddit
Agree, people are too high feeling protected by the State, police and society.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Not only that but filming others in public is illegal. You can really do whatever the hell you like in Germany, in so far as being a total bastard to strangers is a desirable way to spend your time.
RavenCroww@reddit
I'm gonna say try southern Germany ie Bavaria and Austria. Just once
P_Jamez@reddit
I moved to Bayern from London in 2020 and I keep seeing these posts and thinking they are almost the complete opposite of my experiences. No one has ever shouted at me, my work colleagues are friendly, I’ve made friends through a Verein, the food is good, there is always events going on.
InazumaThief@reddit
how are they different?
InazumaThief@reddit
how are they different?
Odd-Performance3347@reddit
Seriously Austria? 🤣🤣 They are probably the most racist country in Europe.
Jumpy_Look6010@reddit
Same in France
Tabitheriel@reddit
Sorry if I disagree your whine festival.
I’ve been in Germany for 20 years. People here aren’t any better or worse than anywhere else. It’s never easy making new friends as an adult in a new city. However, I’ve met friendly people in every part of Germany, mainly through music, sport, church and political organizations (Green Party, BUND, peace organizations). Yeah, you have to take the initiative. It’s called being an adult.
Also, why did you come in the first place? Did you think it would be paradise on earth? There are nice aspects of Germany (nature, cute towns, healthcare, safety, etc.), but if you are unhappy and bitter, maybe it’s not the place you are, but your place in life. Please consider yoga, you sound stressed out.
C3Tblog@reddit
If this is what people in Germany are like, I think I understand why OP wants to leave.
Educational_Word_633@reddit
how do you meet new people in your respective country?
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
She's not German, she's just gone native. So it's funny to me to read that shite hahaha.
Jdgarza96@reddit
Wow. You’ve clearly reached full German integration! You fit in perfectly!
Jdgarza96@reddit
Wow. You’ve clearly reached full German integration! You fit in perfectly!
mmoonbelly@reddit
Would echo that.
German music associations are sone of the most social. The rugby clubs (mainly Germans) are also fun.
Had A level German when I arrived at uni there at 18. Finished 4 years later with C1 ish (with German friends who are life-long friends from outside of my course) realise that uni is slightly different to working.
But wherever else we’ve lived (US/NL/UK/France) we’ve made friends through joining local groups.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Lol.
lordalgammon@reddit
The problem is definitely you.
Work on your social skills and find hobbies or stuff to do. That's how you meet people when you are older. There are a gazillion people living in Hamburg. Yes, germans are colder and sometimes a bit weird, but in a city of millions, not having anyone to even talk to is def on you.
inrecovery4911@reddit
Read the rest of the replies to this post, and sesrch this thread for older posts on people struggling with life in Germany. I guarantee it's not just OP.
Educational_Word_633@reddit
You mean people that go online to rant about how miserable their life is*
Raneynickel4@reddit
You shouldnt need to know any german speakers to practice your german. In Denmark, we have Danish speaking clubs, where you can practice your spoken Danish with native volunteers. This is in a small country of 5 million (vs Germany's 83 million) and for a language which is absolutely useless outside of Denmark (yes, even in Scandinavia - it will help you with reading other Scandinavian languages but god forbid you try to speak Danish to a non-Dane if its anything more complex than an A1/2 convo). German is at least useful in several other countries. I refuse to believe there are no initiatives like this in your local area.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
The local adult education college (Volkshochschule) used to match tandem partners, but they shut the website down sometime last year. Nothing has replaced it. When it was there, I used it, and it helped me get B2 German hugely (I got full marks in my oral exam). There's a Sprachcafé for refugees, but I'm not a refugee. There's something similar offered by the university for students, but I am not a student.
So yes, I know it sounds utterly, utterly preposterous. But no, it's not easy to find people to speak German with in Germany. At least not as a worker in an English language company, in Hamburg, who isn't a refugee.
Educational_Word_633@reddit
I used mylanguageexchange (the website) to find tandem partners. Give it a try!
Raneynickel4@reddit
I had a quick google and this was the first result. Have you tried this? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://welcome.hamburg.com/living-in-hamburg/learning-german/talk-groups-18572&ved=2ahUKEwiU5MbrrtWNAxWGlP0HHbv_Oa8QFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1V7I8Rvl8Fba5kf1c15UEz
Alostcord@reddit
You sound lonely.
I’ll bet your day looks like work, home, bed …wash and repeat. Until you have time off and then….nothing except for language learning. Hamburg is great for industry, maybe not so great for connectivity in life?
You are also at an age where many are starting to settle down, have their “friend groups” and family connections established. Which as a solo immigrant..you just don’t have. Immigration/migration is difficult no matter where you go. As an individual it’s all on you.
Have you returned home for a visit recently? Did you notice your “friends” have scattered and have their lives elsewhere now as well? If you have been home did everyone make time for you or was it “different”?
What I know for sure..you need to do what’s right for you..whatever that looks like. Definitely do not get involved with someone knowing how you feel about where you are right now. Maybe consider counseling.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
In my own self I am happier and more content than I have ever been. It's my external situation, my environment, which I find awful.
I guess that just adds to my frustration. I am full of energy and there's loads to do in life and I know I can do it, but just not in Germany.
I agree that if it (i.e. a good, happy life) was going to happen for me in Germany, it would have by now. It's only going to get harder from this age onwards as people turn to starting and focussing on families.
Of course it's different. It's positively exotic, which excites me for home even more. Of course people have moved on. I don't care. I can build a new life in the UK. I will never build a life here.
I do believe it's worse in Germany on average though. The people are special.
Educational_Word_633@reddit
From your original post it sounds like you joined one Verein / Group and that's it (correct me if Im wrong.) Have you considered volunteering / trying out new hobbies / cooking classes / art classes etc?
And drop these meetups, they sound awfully similar to the ones I went to (twice) in Japan. Awful vibe 99% expats looking to bone. Instead I improved my Japanese and went up to groups of locals and asked them what restaurant they can recommend (75% of the time they invited me to join them).
Im probably younger and this is not a straightforward strategy but Id urge you to not give up and try something. Life is too short to be miserable.
jagchi95@reddit
Just get out of this sorry excuse of a country, I totally get you. I don’t see any problem about leaving, that’s the right thing to do. Be brave, leave and be happy!
MountainousTent@reddit
Why sorry excuse?
jagchi95@reddit
why? simple: authoritarian ethnocracy posing as democracy
Educational_Word_633@reddit
its not posing as a democracy?
Historical-View647@reddit
OP I wonder did you visit Germany before moving there? I ask because I didn't even like Germany as a tourist. I gave the country two chances. First I went to Dresden and even that city didn't wow me in terms of people and vibe. On my 2nd trip I went to Bavaria and one town in BW (Ulm). I liked Ulm the most, Munich locals were really rude, Memmingen was boring and Augsburg while nice the locals acted sort of suspicious. I'm glad I decided to visit before applying for jobs and degrees in Germany. I'll never ever again move sight unseen.
However, I went on a day trip to Salzburg and I surprisingly loved it. It's weird how two similar countries sharing the same language can have such different vibes! It was like a totally different vibe.
The people in Austria outside of Vienna are more lax in general than even people in small town Germany. I might be imagining things but some parts of Salzburg felt almost like what at the time I imagined Northern Italy might feel like - people were lax and looked more interested in just enjoying life than the people a German city of the same size as Salzburg.
TL;DR I doubt I'll ever return to Germany even as a tourist. With your German why don't you try Austria?
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I don't know if it's bigotry but Hamburg has put me completely off the DACHs countries entirely. When I visited Vienna I did notice that I was harassed by strangers less often but I still refuse to believe the Austrians are so different to the Germans in grand scheme of things.
I am very skeptical now of these European very high QoL countries. They're high QoL maybe if you're a native, otherwise: nope.
Historical-View647@reddit
OMG, harassed is the word I needed! Thank you! It's the word that can best describe the way I was treated in Munich, Dresden and the Netherlands. I don't want to ever visit those two countries even as a tourist. They're flyover ones for me.
Even in Ulm some of the locals felt they had to go out of their way to show snobbish behaviour. I was harassed in Munich so rudely in my first 15 minutes that I spent less than an hour in total there. It's a first for me to spend so little time somewhere due to the rudeness of locals. And not just one local.
I don't believe the b.s. some on Reddit spill that "Oh you might not like it as a tourist but it might be amazing in the long-term". I tried that with the Netherlands and wasted 3 years of my life and literally ruined my health from the stress.
After returning from visits to my home country I was always "Okay maybe this time it will work if I try harder". Nope! A place that rubs you off the wrong way from the very first moment will always be bad for you. I also tested it with a repeat summer vacation in a sea resort in my country where I didn't click with the place and locals the first time. There will be no 3rd visit lol.
I think that 2 trips to Germany to 3 states there and about 5 cities is enough to know Germany is a "no" place for me to move to.
theMoonHound@reddit
You're lonely. You're not failing, and congrats on those language skills! You've just moved from the beginning deep into the middle part and it's hard to see your way. It's the bog down. Do you even have an image anymore of where you're going, what you thought success would look like? Mates at the bar after work, understanding the jokes, a girlfriend to teach you German in pillow talk... Getting invited to someone's home for the holiday. Having a real friend to share your thoughts with, someone you trust, something that's not superficial. You're closer than you think to making it. Close to a second passport and that's a big deal to catch the Schengen zone. Just find ways to be in places where the Germans are. Weekend market, train ride, cooking class, corner bar. Fake it till you make it. The life you're looking for is in inclusion. It's in being valued. Being needed. And you're going to have to be your vulnerable self a little bit to be seen, engaged, invited. Everybody has their shields up. Drop yours.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I can see very clearly in my mind's eye what I want and expect from life and I cannot believe even for a moment that it's possible here in Germany. It's nothing fancy, but it involves a social life and a levity that is totally absent here. I had a girlfriend to teach me German and it was nice for a while but ultimately it wasn't enough for me to feel happy here and I broke up with her for some other reason. After that I wanted to take a break from dating. And now I'm totally ready to date and want to date but I am absolutely not willing to risk staying in Germany by meeting a woman. That terrifies me.
To be honest, and I forgot to mention it elsewhere in this thread, but I do have what I now call "German nightmares"—literally nightmares about the fact I live in Germany. The nightmare is this: it's a few years in the future and I have this overwhelming, terrifying realisation that I've wasted my life in Germany. And then I wake up with that feeling, and it's horrible. So it's bad here, for me.
I've never had much success making friends on short notice before, least of all in Germany.
Anyway thanks for your comment, your words are kind.
ClothesInitial4537@reddit
Completely empathize with you. I learnt German upto B1, and I realize I only speak German with the cashiers at the supermarket to say hello, I don't want the receipt, and goodbye. The bureaucracy is driving me nuts. I was eligible for a PR, but decided not to take it, because I didn't want to fill forms anymore. I don't mind learning the language. The issue was who was I going to speak it with.
One of the biggest stumbling blocks here is the lack of information on how to do most things. Sure if you ask, people might help. But, sometimes you don't even know what to ask or something exists to make use of it. And no wants to tell you anything. Doctors who refuse to give your own data to you, or tell you what's wrong with you, apart from giving generic statements as something's wrong with you. What I mean is I don't want random people offering life advice. But people you interact with on a daily basis, offering practical tips on how to solve something, or just making you aware of certain things which you are completely ignorant about.
I am Indian, and I look the part. The Wilkommenskultur as you put is an absolute lie. You make the effort to learn their language, and go the extra mile. I have had someone who refused to make an attempt to refer me by name. Instead she said, you whatever your name is, do this/that. My German isn't great, but I atleast make an effort to learn, and then people refusing to refer to you by name is not fun. I have had people throw cigarettes at me. When you narrate such incidents to colleagues, all you get is a perfunctory shrug of the shoulders, and off they go.
Everything is completely gatekept for some reason. You fill in some forms, and then more forms appear. Why can't you tell me what the complete process is? It feels like a video game where you haven't reached the save point yet.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I feel for you. I'm white and look German and I think it can only be much harder if you're not. My ex girlfriend was a Turkish German and she had plenty of stories about every day casual racism she experienced from the native population... it's not you, it's the society. Just being the nice/normal who person you sound like you are absolutely isn't enough in this society, you need to be so much more.
Just finish your PhD and get out.
Particular-System324@reddit
How did you meet your ex- German gf, if I may ask? Did you consider using that as an avenue to find German friends? For example, if you guys met on Bumble, there is a Friends mode on Bumble too.
ClothesInitial4537@reddit
Thank you! I am going home in a few months to work remotely. I am almost done with my PhD
NiceCandle5357@reddit
"Four years and counting, and I don't even recognize myself."
This hits me hard. I don't live in Germany but the treatment I've received in two other northern European countries has been so bad that I get scared to even name them lest hordes of downvotes and nasty comments ensue. I'm leaving in three weeks to go back home and I can't wait. It almost feels like I'm leaving a very unique prison sentence, if that makes sense. Obviously it's not like actual prison but it's this feeling of, okay you can live here, move around freely, and work, but you will be completely isolated at the same time. Any attempts you make to succeed or join in will be met with passive-aggressive attacks. If you try to defend yourself, you only dig the hole deeper. This will continue until you leave.
I feel like when I go home it will take a year or two to recover and remember how to be my former social, happy self. And then I think I might write a book about the experience.
ClothesInitial4537@reddit
This is why I avoid posting questions on the germany subreddit as much as possible. I once asked if not giving patients their medical data was standard practice. The comments were very snarky and condescending, that I deleted the question, and solved the issue myself.
I was ready for the language difference, and the differing culture (to an extent). Some culture shock is expected, no matter how much you expect it. But what I find utterly strange here is that helpful information that makes everyone's lives easier is rarely volunteered. Usually this occurs over smalltalk. But, since that's not the norm here, the little things that matter are lost. You have to specifically ask for it. How am I going to ask for something I don't know about? It leads to death by a thousand paper cuts.
The straw that broke the camel's back was when I was talking to colleagues about having cigarettes thrown at me, none of them even expressed a word of sympathy. I do understand that they weren't the ones who did it, nor can they change it. I was asking for practical information on whether I should be calling the emergency police number, or make a complaint in person, and they just stared at me till I felt like I was being a burden. I have stopped caring anymore to be honest. It was only other foreigners who empathized with me. Its very dehumanizing to be honest.
NiceCandle5357@reddit
You should be able to share something bad that happened with your colleagues and expect sympathy. Why should anyone hold it inside and ask for practical information only? The fact that they said nothing at all and stared at you like you're the problem is monstrous. Aren't they human?
As I write this I'm being ripped apart in a local sub for complaining about something rude. It's bizarro world here in the land of bland food and blander people.
Ok_Bandicoot1865@reddit
No, you're being criticised for not even attempting to better the situation before posting about it online to whine about it.
As several people also said, we agree without that those teenagers shouldn't have had their feet up on the seats in the bus. But instead of asking them to move their feet so you could sit when they didn't do it on their own accord, you took a photo of them and posted it online, and that's what people are criticising you for.
If you had actually tried to do something about it, and they still didn't move their feet after you asked them to, the response to your post would have been wildly different. It has nothing to do with not "being allowed" to complain about thing that happen to you, and everything to do with complaining about something when you haven't even attempted to do anything about it. Similar to if I dropped my pen on the floor and then instead of trying to pick it up, I just posted a picture of it online saying "ugh, I'm not going to be able to write anything today because I dropped my pen".
NiceCandle5357@reddit
Hey look, a Dane stalking my profile. So i got downvoted on that post to the point that I couldn't reply to most comments or even edit my post. But I was able to reply to one of them where I did say those women were in their mid 20s to early 30s. It was an anonymous photo. I posted it to be like, get a load of this, how rude. And the response was utterly bizarre. As is this comment. Get psychological help, or better yet a life.
Bubbly-Cover-3499@reddit
I just had to see if your comments elsewhere were as unhinged as in your replies on your post in the r/Aarhus sub lol.
You can't edit the text on image posts after you post it. That's a reddit thing and not a being downvoted thing. Your post is also in the positive vote wise, it's only your comments that are downvoted, further proving my point that it wasn't the fact that you shared that someone was rude that annoyed people, but that you didn't even try to fix it before posting about it since that only became known in your comments. Also, did you seriously expect not to get downvoted when you started saying shit like how you hate it there and can't wait to leave, in a local sub?
And no thanks, I'm not the one hating my life. Per your own comments, that's you. I'm perfectly happy. But I truly hope you're able to improve your life whenever you move back to where you're from, because it's very clear that you're miserable.
NiceCandle5357@reddit
To be transparent I hang reported you for harassment. Following me around reddit crosses the line.
Kireina7@reddit
It's no different in Italy, which is crazy making for getting even an extra month visa beyond the alloted 90 days. I mean really crazy making. The French are organized and tell you exactly what you need to have and to do and they do not change the rules willy nilly like the Italians. There is a hilarious and absolutely correct comedy narrative about going to the consulate in Italy or for Italy on Instagram. It's funny in a painful kind of way because it is so real.
magnusdeus123@reddit
Hope you find a way forward through this.
ClothesInitial4537@reddit
Thank you!
thesog@reddit
Someone on this sub described living in Germany like “sleepwalking through life.” I thought it was a pretty accurate description as the longer I live here the more I feel that way.
ko-zawgyi@reddit
Interesting viewpoint OP. I've never been to Germany, and many of the societies I've lived in other than my own (many) have vastly differed from mine.
I've also found myself having few issues with being an outsider though. For me it is totally fine to be an outsider, a real life alien. I'm OK as an alien, I think it's cool. And I don't mind it. I've become used to it, moving from country to country always as an alien to varying extents. What's funny about it is when i go home I am also a bit of alien as well... being a foreigner isn't for everyone.
Some people really get hung up on being culturally different, having a different mindset from the host population. I just roll with the punches, people are strange, so are different societies.
__mango@reddit
Very eloquently put and as a Brit, i agree 100%. Unfortunately for me, i am tied here with family for at least another 10 years but if that wasn’t the case, i also would have left several years ago. My experiences have not been as negative as yours but i do relate to everything you’ve said. Germany is boring by comparison to England and culturally people are colder(even if unintentionally). Getting from 0 - C1 in under 5 years is an exceptional effort, well done, you did better than I and many others did. If you’re still not happy after all that effort, I would advise you to leave… what are you hanging on for after 4.5 years?
We only have one life and our paths are not linear, its not an admission of defeat to leave after such a long time, its just the next chapter.
OneUpAndOneDown@reddit
I’m wondering what drew OP to Germany originally and how that worked out.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I got a job here and I was, frankly, extremely naive. I honestly was very excited to come to Germany and had literally no negative prejudices against the country or its people (obviously, otherwise I would never have moved here). Now, of course, nothing can live up to such high expectations, so it was likely to disappoint me no matter what, and I should accept that. But not in a million years did I ever even imagine for a moment it would be as bad as this.
water5785@reddit
what job did you get ? what industry/ role? can you transfer it back to uk?
ActProfessional3811@reddit
I feel this way about living in Ohio lmao. We do have a lotta german ancestry here!
SuggestionPopular226@reddit
I’m curious what information sources you’ve been exposed to before you moved because I’m from SE Asia and I know what it’s like in Germany? It’s not going to get better from a social aspect (or maybe it will, just way longer). Life is short so do what’s important to you.
Ok-Test-7634@reddit
I sympathize, here's the silver lining: it's only been 4.5 years, it could have been worse, just count your blessings, move out, and move on, Germany is not the center of the world. I think the important thing for you to do some sort of introspection and figure out what drew you to Germany in the first place, and make sure it doesn't happen again.
saroarsoars91@reddit
I lived in Germany as a student for 6 months and the first three months I did a work experience placement. It was brutal. I found it almost impossible to meet people or make friends in those first three months and it seemed like virtually no one wanted to help make life easier. My student semester was more fun, but again, all of my friends were other fellow erasmus students and very few interactions with actual Germans bar a couple that I had met on a previous semester in France. Germany is novel to live in for a few months but it can get lonely and real bureaucratic very quickly. When it came to my final packing up session, I practically skipped out of the country and was so ready to come home. I don't think I realised until then just how much I love my shithole hometown!
Blastercastleg@reddit
I felt exactly the same . I lived in Amsterdam for 10 years. But I didn’t learn dutch because of nature of my job schedule. I came back to uk and Brexit happened. The implications of that dawned on me over the next few years and at times I wished I hadn’t left . But the truth is where ever you are there will be pros and cons. I knew I was never going to integrate despite trying hard and having a Dutch boyfriend . I always felt like I was floating on top of culture and not in it . That’s important to me and was the point of decision. Do I regret moving back ? Sometimes but you make your life wherever you are the best you can and you can never know what would have happened . Netherlands is now more right wing and racism is big issue so it wasnt always the friendliest place for me . When doing a pros/ cons list , both countries had them but In the end I assessed based on what I valued most in life and where I was more likely to find that .
Kuna-Pesos@reddit
Hi.
I am na Eastern European.
I went to the UK, already speaking C1 English and wanting to wield my Master’s diploma professionally. Got harassed constantly by racists, got discriminated like hell in general. I felt extremely unwelcome.
Now I live in Germany, where I am welcome, got great friends and neighbours…
If I were to compare immigration to UK and DE personally… I will chose ‘Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit’ every time.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
That's good.
aymankun9@reddit
I don’t agree that integration is a 100% on the foreigner. It is a mutual effort of the guest and the host. I feel similar to you after living 5+ years in the Netherlands. And my optimism tells me that it might have to do with living in big cities. I recently moved out of Amsterdam to a smaller nearby city and I can definitely feel a stronger sense of community amongst the residents (natives and foreigners)
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
It should be a mutual effort, but it isn't in Germany. It's on me, the immigrant. And yes it's exhausting and that's why I'm ready to wave the white flag and go home.
ak4338@reddit
I'm in Hamburg right now, and if you're bored, you're doing Hamburg wrong 🤷🏼♀️
What part of the city are you in? Have you gone into the immigrant heavy districts? The city itself is like ~45% immigrant background so it can't be that terrible for immigrants. Sounds like you need to join a book club, social discussion/philosophical discussion group, some kind of scene. There are lots of "scenes" in Hamburg that are a mite more stimulating than church and sports club.
All that being said, maybe Germany just isn't for you and it is time to go home. Only you know that.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
What level is your German?
ak4338@reddit
Probably somewhere between A1 and A2. I can read better than I can speak or listen, but I can get by in everyday needs. I don't live here though, the longest I've spent here at once was 3 months, but I come a couple times a year at least so I'm able to maintain my shitty level of German 😂
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Well if you can't speak any German but you're still perfectly happy here then clearly you and I just want and expect different things from life. That's alright, different people want different things.
Having said that, 3 months at a time.... that's not long at all. That's not living here.
ak4338@reddit
I literally said I don't live here lol
But I've been visiting Hamburg frequently for 10 years and my husband was born and raised here, still lives here. He speaks perfect English so I do get the benefit of him translating when he's with me. His job is in English, he goes to BJJ which is also taught in English, German, and Russian.
Most of the people I know here are in science and speak English and even German people in the neighborhood speak some English and between their English and my German, we understand each other. If you want to talk to some actual Germans, maybe talk to your German neighbors about goings on in the neighborhood, apartment building, whatever.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Yes I know you said it. I just don't understand how you can make strong claims about how to live in Hamburg if you don't live here and never have.
ak4338@reddit
Because my partner and now husband has lived here his whole life and I've been many times.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
That doesn't really make any sense to me. Visiting is not the same as living. Echter Hamburger experience is not the same as the Ausländer experience.
Your tips and advice are welcome but your bluster and confidence in claiming someone is doing the city "wrong" is baffling, given you don't really know because you've never lived here. I wouldn't do what you did, personally.
JanonymousAnonymous@reddit
Do you think Germans would have a similar experience if living in the UK or do you think it's a particular German culture thing?
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I think Germany is far less tolerant than the UK, based on stories I've heard from non-white people in both countries. That non-Germans get worse flats than Germans is basically accepted in Germany. Unheard of in the UK.
Far_Squash_4116@reddit
In Germany, to meet people you best join a „Verein“ (club). Football clubs exist everywhere and since football is a team sport are great for meeting people.
Listening skills I got by watching TV. And you also learn a lot about our culture.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I joined a Sportverein but I didn't enjoy it. The Sportverein in the UK was like literally the centre of my life, but in Hamburg the Verein was just a bit shit, for many reasons.
Far_Squash_4116@reddit
The training in German clubs is provided by volunteers who seem to want a free weekend and thus provide the training during the work week. Since you tried everything I am out of ideas. It is hard to meet new people in Germany for Germans, too.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Idk doing a hobby on the weekend just seems obvious to me. That's when you have time. And yeah coaching is a hobby. That's how it was in the UK. It's obviously different. Not sure even now what Germans actually do with their weekends tbh, since the mythical and legendary Vereine are targeted at weekdays, there's often fuck all to do on the weekends.
Far_Squash_4116@reddit
Maintaining the garden and shopping on saturday and quiet time on sunday.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
That's the other thing. Everything being closed, and a lot of (noisy) things being banned, on Sunday means Saturday just becomes another work day where you have to cram everything into a small window. Far from making life more relaxing, the Sunday laws make life worse and more stressful.
Acceptable-Sock6704@reddit
It testifies for a shallow culture if you need to join a Verein to feel included. In other cultures, it works fine even without feeling forced to join a Verein to be seen lol
inrecovery4911@reddit
Suprised I had to scroll this far down for the inevitable "join a Verein" comment.
Far_Squash_4116@reddit
Why? Is that bad?
lefix@reddit
As a German, I have made similar experiences. I have lived in 7-8 different cities in Germany, and it was as always like a roll of dice. In some places my social life hit the ground running immediately, but most of the time, I never really clicked with city and its people. But I made the same experience abroad as well. I spend a year in the US for college and never really made real friends, but when I spent 3 years working in SEA my social life was the best it has ever been. I can’t really put my finger on why it is that way.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Indeed and I realise that it's just a case of just finding the right group of people and then everything can fall into place. So I waited and I kept trying and hoped and prayed that this or that effort might be "it" where I finally met "my people". But it never was. And now 4.5 years in I have to question: why should it ever happen for me now when it hasn't yet? So this is my life, until I die, if I stay here? Unthinkable, unfathomable, unacceptable...
seyerkram@reddit
I agree with you. Have lived in different cities with different cultures and I guess it just boils down to luck.
You could be living in the most friendly city in the world but still won’t have anyone you really like in your circles. I’m sure there’s a German dude currently living in the UK with the exact sentiments as OP.
And of course it’s unfair to compare it to your home country because you already know where and how to find these connections you are looking for.
norbi-wan@reddit
Sea?
lefix@reddit
South East Asia
black-diamond--@reddit
Whatever it is, as far as the internet is concerned the Germans seem as a whole a lot less aggressive than the French. If you do anything but praise France as the best country on earth that man has ever created, a hoard of angry baguettes will attack you and stalk your account for hours.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
There are loads of German nationalists on the internet too. Go to /r/germany and try and criticise Germany. "Germany is past patriotism" is also a lie IMO. It's still very nationalistic, though no longer overtly Nazi (obviously).
black-diamond--@reddit
They sure avoid the comment section on these r/expats posts though. Try making a similar thread to France & it gets immediately bombarded with niggardly French who can't stand criticism to their country. Maybe they just venture more outside of their spaces.
Anitalovestory@reddit
The best countries for immigrants are USA, Canada and Australia in terms of adaptation and making friends.
Curiousone_78@reddit
I seriously doubt the U.S. is the best place for immigrants with trump and Republicans in control. They are grabbing people off the streets and deporting them. It's chaotic right now.
WestDeparture7282@reddit
There's a difference between underlying cultural ideas about accepting foreigners with visas/PR/passport who make an effort to integrate vs acceptance of undocumented immigrants or those who remain in a parallel society.
black-diamond--@reddit
Ehhh, disagree there. Latino Christians are more similar to Americans than those "good" immigrants White Americans like putting on a pedestal to spite the ethnicities they've had long-term beef with (the descendants of African slaves & descendants of Native Americans --FBA & Latinos), like the Hindu Indians (depending on their mood) or the non-Christian East Asians.
Aar_7@reddit
I disagree, the most kidnapped refugees are from Christian countries in Latin America (El Salvador, Venezuela etc). They have Western christian culture (holidays & morals etc).
Heck most of them have christian names and more practicing christians than White American christians.
They just failed to be white. THAT IS IT! Pure racism.
carnivorousdrew@reddit
It's not Trump welcoming every single immigrant or going house by house to them. This is the problem with people completely detached from reality. In the daily it is your neighbors and town people that make you feel welcome or integrated. The US is the best place for this regardless of the current administration. It sure as hell is none of the germanic countries.
black-diamond--@reddit
But according to people online my country (america) where my people have lived for 400 years is a totalitarian nazi shithole and every place is much more progressive and tolerant lol
Anitalovestory@reddit
It depends on what kind of an immigrant in the US you are and where exactly you live here.
Curiousone_78@reddit
You mean if you're black/ brown or white? Am I right?
Anitalovestory@reddit
No, I don’t mean the race. I mean your legal status, how you moved here.
Curiousone_78@reddit
It doesn't matter,they are deporting U.S. citizens, green card holders, any other type of immigrants. Anyone not white.
Anitalovestory@reddit
Haha That’s not true. I am from Russia and people without the proper status are getting deported too by ICE officers. I know that some white green card holders (originally from German and Ireland) had problems due to drug abuse and DUI in the past. As for the citizens…if you mean children, they get their citizenship without any conditions which is really rare for good western countries. If their parents are illegals how they can stay with them inside the country? That’s why there is an option, you are moving back to your country with your children and they are come back with 0 problems when they are adults or your relatives with legal status will stay with your children in the US.
atropear@reddit
Good points. These guys saying US citizens are getting deported are just on here venting. Family and friends finally told them to shut up after the election. I'm down to two friends still sending out emails on CNN stories (I never read them). 9 years of this!
0x706c617921@reddit
Yeah, I don’t get some of these other ppl. I’m an Indian American (visibly brown), and I’ve never been hassled by any public servant and especially law enforcement officer.
They will say that my experiences are anecdotal, sure, but aren’t the news stories they bring up also anecdotal too?
magnusdeus123@reddit
Don't know about Australia, but Canada's alright. I think America's possibly better in many ways.
But Canada's good if you want to be an immigrant who makes and stays friends with other immigrants. The whole country is set up from the ground up to be a collection of ethnic ghettos (that's what our provinces literally were conceived as, more or less)
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
I completely disagree about Canada. Have you actually lived there?
Anitalovestory@reddit
I moved to USA, but I have friends who moved to Canada. They like living in an immigrant’s country.
0x706c617921@reddit
Canada is a mosaic while the U.S. is a melting pot.
Depends on what you want / like.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
That is political nonsense that they use to indoctrinate Canadians when they are young. All part of “how Canadians are different aka better than Americans”. Total falsehood
CuriousLands@reddit
As a Canadian, I fully agree. I never thought they were terribly different ideas. And I didn't think the "mosaic" thing made any sense. For one, mosaics come together to make a bigger pattern or picture - and that's Canadian culture. For two, I'm a kid of immigrants and knew a lot of kids growing up where they or their parents came from like, all over the world, and mostly we all were really similar. It's hard to believe we're some "mosaic" when the Chinese kid sitting next to you is obsessed with hockey and your Mexican friend loves playing Power Rangers with you :P
0x706c617921@reddit
I’m not a Canadian bruh. I’m an American who grew up in America and live in America.
But this is something that even some Americans who moved to Canada told me.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Have lived in both countries - I am speaking from experience
0x706c617921@reddit
The biggest difference between Anglo Canadians and Anglo Americans is political.
staunch loyalism vs federalism.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Or conformity vs independence (freedom)
0x706c617921@reddit
Yup.
Americans treat personal liberty as sacred and are wary of government overreach, even if it leads to discomfort.
Canadians, by contrast, seem more concerned with maintaining a façade of order, often at the cost of real individual rights. From my American perspective, this hardly feels like freedom at all.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Well said. I agree 100% and for those reasons I left Canada.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Ok works for some but not for everyone.
uiuxua@reddit
Same. Adaptation is fine and people are generally not hostile to you, but good luck forming any deeper relationships with people
Fordlandia@reddit
What makes you say that? genuinely curious.
Argentina4Ever@reddit
This depends on your original culture I'd argue, to me as a Brazilian the country I felt best in was Spain by a far mile.
0x706c617921@reddit
What about Portugal?
Argentina4Ever@reddit
The problem with Portugal is that it has excessive burueacracy as bad if not worse as the German one plus their entire immigration system has collapsed, it takes far too long to get documents sorted out plus if you want to naturalize it can take as high as whole decade to finally get your passport.
Public services in Spain work a lot better, it's less buruecratic (still has its issues but its not as bad) and naturalization is a lot faster, just 2 years of residency plus half a year tops for processing.
Portugal also has extremely high levels of xenophobia against Brazilians while Spain is way chiller.
0x706c617921@reddit
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought that German bureaucracy isn’t bad per se but just super paper heavy.
Argentina4Ever@reddit
It does have more red tape than I'd consider necessary but yeah once you get the initial stuff out of the way it's not that bad.
0x706c617921@reddit
Nice!
RemarkableAge6943@reddit
Lived in Germany for a year, left and didn’t go back until many years later to visit a friend in Berlin, who had moved there. Berlin was somewhat bearable as it has a bit more of a bohemian/cultural vibe, but there’s something in generic German culture that just makes it uptight and oppressive. I’ve also worked with several Germans and nobody else on the team could get on with them because they were so overbearing.
I do know some lovely Germans, super chill, but they’re in the minority – we have some German friends who call the typical Germans “nervous Germans”!
OP, life’s too short, get out of there, there are many more places you can live.
Kireina7@reddit
move to Berlin. It's young vibrant, more cosmopolitan than Hamburg. It's like saying I moved to England and live in Norfolk which is beautiful but everyone keeps to themselves. It's boring.
JoshWestNOLA@reddit
Nobody likes living in Germany. Probably not even the Germans.
Albertine_Spirit@reddit
3 years in the Netherlands… me and my husband jokingly call it « living the truman show ». Life feels so sterile and boring. I got a text from a friend to invite me to her house for a drink… in 6 weeks. I wanted to CRY. It’s not a party, it’s just hanging out together for a couple of hours. Here, if you don’t plan things in advance, you don’t see anyone. The lack of spontaneous get-together is starting to really affect me. Yes, i never had this much money in my life - but everytime I leave the country is like I started living again (even just driving to Brussels felt like such an gasp of fresh air).
Just leave- start applying for jobs, and give yourself a deadline, it helps.
DueLoan685@reddit
I feel the same. Only I'm a native 😔
Rough-Neighborhood18@reddit
Well, Maybe it’s the Area. Maybe move to a place where more english speakers are? For example, Kaiserslautern is a big community with many Americans, Germans, and I have seen some english men who work here, whether it be military related, or at local car dealerships. It is a community with the biggest American presence due to the U.S. Military being stationed here. Kaiserslautern is a nice city, and there are fun things to do all around. I’m sure you can find Germans to speak german here with, without a problem too.
Secret-Guava6959@reddit
I grew up in Germany as a daughter mixed with a immigrant mother and even as a native German speaker I left that country. I would say LEAVE , Germans values authority and being miserable , shitting on people and being negative
settheory8@reddit
As a non-German, is south Germany better than northern Germany? Considering OP lives in pretty much the farthest north city in Germany
Glad-Pea9524@reddit
hahaha so true. this country feels like a military camp sometimes. people are very formal and serious.
no mistakes allowed
Acceptable-Sock6704@reddit
This 💯
yegegebzia@reddit
This passage verges on being a philosophical masterpiece. It made me ponder really hard. I'm soon almost 10 years in Germany - also did my best to learn the language - and at times it seems like the only conversation in German I had in 2 weeks was a "Hallo", exchanged maybe 4-5 times during this time with the neighbors. The worst thing is I don't even care :)
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
I totally can relate. I lived in the Netherlands and many things you described are similar it seems.
Just pack and leave. Not every person fit in every society. It took me many years to understand and accept that. Germanic societies are definitely not for me and I came back to my shitty southern European country where I am way happier than ever. So just go back and fuck it. Don’t waste more years in a place that makes you very unhappy
carnivorousdrew@reddit
Same. Germanic countries have slightly better salaries to make up for the low and unhealthy QoL.
IntelligentJob7323@reddit
Well, they have some of the highest QoL in the world.
midu16@reddit
What defines an unhealthy quality of life ?
Glad-Pea9524@reddit
mentally life in germany is hell. no social life eveybody is super stressed and formal. it is like in the military. they are so so formal even in normal conversations and so serious.
it wears you down. the food is not great here even the foreign food
carnivorousdrew@reddit
No sun, poor food quality control, poor food quality, low sense of community, privitized healthcare.
BadHairDayToday@reddit
OP is also from a Germanic culture though
magnusdeus123@reddit
The UK? The language is Germanic, but the UK is squarely in it's own Anglo culture that's pretty distinct from Germanic (Germany + Dutch + Scandinavia, etc.)
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
Fair enough. I meant Germany, The Netherlands and I’m not sure if maybe Denmark or Switzland too (which are kind similar). They are very different from UK. I have lived in both sides
carnivorousdrew@reddit
Let's say continental Germanic lol
Techters@reddit
Appropriate flair!
magnusdeus123@reddit
From reading this sub I frequently go back to my realization that the ex who wanted to move to Germany with me; who broke up with me after a year, did me a massive favour. I really had rose-tinted glasses for Germany at one point in my 20s.
Honestly mate, I have no skin in the game other that seeing other expats live a good life. Take one for your own team; spend the next few months scoping out where you could work or such in the U.K. (or elsewhere) and just get out.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I want to be balanced and not some raging lunatic, so I would suggest that it is possible to be happy and integrated in Germany I believe if you go as a student, at the latest.
However, those of whom who went as workers, after studying? I've not met a single one who I can look at and go "that's a good life". Those who are happy: none of them can speak German and none of them care. But they're happy and that's how you do it, I think. But I'm not like that. I want and I expect more from life.
Glad-Pea9524@reddit
I was like you then I stopped caring because nothing will change. Germany and germans are like this and they will not change. if you care and try to make effort it will only make you tired.
nothing against germans I think as you said they are good people and honest hard working but I struggled to make sense with them. The auslanderamt for me was nightmare everything is unneccessarly complicated and slow.
I cannot go back now to my country because there is war and I will get citizenship soon and then I will think
magnusdeus123@reddit
Yeah, and this feels bad where you are right now, but one day you'll look back and realize that you were being forged in the crucible of your future, better life during these hard moments.
Wanting more from life in a great thing, and one you should be proud of yourself for.
Haitsmelol@reddit
Honestly...get out while you still can if you are unhappy now.
I've been here 15 years. I hear alot of what you are saying. I think it's been manageable for me because I gave up on being accepted and having German friends long ago. What gets me by is my international friends. I'm still here because of my wife and kids now. But I miss home for a lot of the reasons you described. But now moving back is much more difficult. Despite that, we had planned to move the whole family back in a few years...but...then Trump's second term happened. I was concerned, but it's been way worse then I ever imagined. So now we are unsure what our next move is....maybe Canada.
Point is...don't get stuck like me. I also had the defiant idea of not giving up. I'm not super unhappy but yeah, I live in a little foreigner bubble. I barely talk to my German neighbors, it's awkward and even more so now with kids where I'm forced to socialize with them at kids events, and like it's painful. I do have a couple of German friends, but I'm closer with international people.
inrecovery4911@reddit
Another "stuck" person validating OP and lending general solidarity. These posts help me cope, let me kniw I'm not crazy/oversensitive. If you read the comments on r/germany, well, the bias,there leans towards gaslighting anyone who brings this stuff up and then - if you're American - giving a heavy fuse of "whataboutism".
After 21 years here, at least half spent struggling with severe mental health issues that were triggered by these societal factors mentioned here, I've reached a level of acceptance by just making my life on my own land. I'm lucky enough to have a place in the country, although unfortunately not isolated enough for my liking - the neighbours still crwate BS on occasion. That's not necessarily Germany-specific, of course.
What I have to accept is that I have a peaceful life, but all my community, socialising, and volunteer work has to take place online with people in other countries who are kinder, heslthier, more open than most Germans. At least that option exists now post-pandemic. I'm a woman who gave up a career and financial independence for love to move here, and I don't know if I'll ever he able to get out. I left the US at 25 and have no family there or any means of surviving if I were to move back. Housing, job, healthcare/prescriptions I take daily. I guess I must've messed up in a past life to have this be my fate.
NiceCandle5357@reddit
It's never too late to change your life.
Spirit_Bitterballen@reddit
Here is my tuppence worth - just a hot take, nothing more.
In the current political and social climate, i think “incomers” aren’t really welcomed as much anymore anywhere.
This can range from “I can’t be arsed with you unless you’re fluent and get all my cultural touchpoints instantly” to “fuck off back to where you came from/why are you here?”
I think in insular cultures (DE, NL, Nordics) it can come off as plain hostile and no matter how talented, rich, white or “spiritually German” you are, you’re not one of them so folks don’t bother their arse.
You’ve been there nearly 5 years, you have given it a good shot, but your point about “yes the UK is a shithole but it is MY shithole” resonates.
Life is too short to try and force assimilation in a culture that can’t be arsed with you. Time to go home and hold your head high that you gave it your very best.
Acceptable-Sock6704@reddit
I can understand where you’re coming from, and I can assure you — it has nothing to do with language. I was born and raised in Germany. I speak German at a native level — arguably even more eloquently than many native speakers, have three academic degrees, one of which is in medicine, and I come from a socially stable background. Everything you’ve described can be summed up in a few words: Life in Germany is soulless. Even among themselves, many Germans don’t seem to know how to truly live or enjoy life. They live in a constant speculative fear about the future, a lack of appreciation for the present, and a constant state of skepticism or mistrust. Their negativity doesn’t just pass by others except touching them as well to some extent. They‘ve never learned to live. This shows in their shallow culture as well. I know of an American embassy employee who returned to Iraq during war after being just a few months b Germany due to feeling the same as you‘ve described above. And no amount of housing, landscapes and Verein can make up for the shallowness and depressing life and culture as experienced in Germany Many people naïvely believe that life in Germany is of high quality simply because of the wages. But those wages are not worth much after being sucked off a great amount of it in taxes, insurances etc., and the high cost of simply existing here. And in return, you’re left to deal with a depressing low quality life. Life is too short. Instead of staying in a constant state of mourning or self-pity, it’s better to move elsewhere. God’s earth is vast — and better places do exist.
FitzwilliamTDarcy@reddit
One specific suggestion is to watch/listen to German TV/shows/podcasts. All the time. Make it the soundtrack of your life. Read the local newspaper every day. Read a German novel.
When out and about, go out of your way to engage people in conversation. The clerk at a store, ticket person at a theater. Whomever. Wherever. Just talk.
It may not help socially at least not directly. But it might :)
missdopamine@reddit
I could have written this myself at the 4.5 year mark. You hit it on the nose - 10% of Germans will go out of their way to be assholes - and that slowly does add up.
I left. I felt so torn and like it was a great country in other ways but I had had enough.
Best decision I’ve ever made. So much happier now.
Fordlandia@reddit
While not taking away from the faults of (the lack of) Germany's welcome culture to the type of immigrants they claim they _do_ want to attract (hard working, willing to learn German), I think there's a lot to be said here about how you may have just gotten fed up with the general "expat" experience, but perhaps that's your post came across in my eyes.
That being said. I tried my darndest to find any bits of info that may point to you actually wanting to give it another go in a different German city/setting, I found none however. Especially your last paragraph.
I think you should go back to the UK with your head up high knowing you gave it a shot. Life is too short. A sense of belonging is enormously underrated in this sub.
Go enjoy your life again!
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
It's Hamburg or leave Germany altogether for me. There was a time when I entertained the idea of moving to Berlin but the housing shortage there is far worse than in Hamburg due to the rent controls and I just don't want to put myself through that. UK housing is expensive (and maybe a bit shit) but there is a market that actually exists and you can find somewhere. German housing is affordable and well constructed but it doesn't exist.
I am tired of life in Germany because it's just like, really huge amounts of work, for little/no pay off. That's how I see it. This country is holding me back.
One thing I find particularly sad is that I do really enjoy learning German and do I love the language. I guess once I leave Germany then I will forget it all rather quickly indeed. That will be a real pity.
senti_bene@reddit
What? You should stay for another year and a half and get the passport. Then leave and you can live in the EU or UK.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I'm already a citizen, my grandparents were German so I got it automatically.
senti_bene@reddit
Okay then I agree with others, might as well leave if you’re not happy.
biciklanto@reddit
Yeah, I'd say leave.
I lived in Hamburg for years and had a diametrically opposed experience to you: met new German folks all the time, made it to C2+ proficiency by pretty much being dunked in the language, felt like I could meet new friends-of-friends and the like all the time. Loved it, and I'll live there again.
That being said, if you're having such a drastically worse experience, and have given it an honest try, why bother being miserable? You have one life and there's no reason to stick it out if you're not enjoying it. It's a place to live; it's not who you are.
And I think you can walk out with your head high at having tried and done, and made substantial efforts to learn a hard language and to integrate. Great job on that, friend!
tripletruble@reddit
Hamburg is probably about as good as it gets in Germany for a young person from abroad. If it's not for you, move on
Nyetoner@reddit
Visit Leipzig, you would enjoy that much much more than both Hamburg and Berlin
Fordlandia@reddit
Well that's all there really is to it, isn't it? Doen't seem like a place you would be happy to imagine yourself in in 20 years.
I think that's natural! if there wasn't anything in it for you, I don't think you would've lasted 4.5 years. But you seem like you're at the point where you have to cut your losses.
To be completely honest, after reading dozens and dozens of almost identical posts here about Germany, I'd book my tickets back home. These feelings are all too common unfortunately.
I'd love to be able to leave the German speaking world for the UK if I had a job lined up (and I checked).
SmoothPoem9536@reddit
Excellent writing. It feels like we've all been scammed by Germany, but good to see that people are beginning to awaken.
dallyan@reddit
This is exactly how I feel as an American living in Switzerland. I miss my shithole and family and friends. But no one supports my moving back.
NiceCandle5357@reddit
Hey my fellow American who realized that we're actually not that bad (administration notwithstanding), I support you moving back!
WestDeparture7282@reddit
Where did I read something very similar to the "10% assholes" thing? It made me laugh because it describes the northwestern neighbors too, most people seem decent but will not go out of their way to be nice, and there is a widespread unspoken tolerance of the \~10% of people that, like you said, go out of their way to be total and complete assholes to everyone. And people just accept it instead of correct them.
I get where you're coming from, your struggles sound very similar to mine in the Netherlands. You can try so hard to do all the "integrate" stuff and it will just never be enough. I have a French degree and speak fluent French so I'm not sure why I'm not there to begin with, I have spent extended periods of time there and already have a few groups of friends there since I was 19. I'm also just clamoring for a bit more personal space and a more rural lifestyle at this point.
But after just over 5 years in NL I'm in the same headspace as you. I feel like a lot of people hit a wall around this time, because it's just long enough to finally see everything for how it is and start getting the feeling that it's just not going to get any better no matter how many athletic clubs you join or how well you try to speak the language. I think there is something about Germanic countries.
I'm in the process of getting a new job here but the ultimate goal is to save some money and leave, so I've put any effort into further learning the language on hold. Not sure what the attitude is in Germany but the "get out" crowd feels like it's starting to get louder.
magnusdeus123@reddit
I find it hilarious how France has gone from the country that everyone used to complain and shit on all the time for it's bureaucracy, racism, safety etc. to where expats are like, meh, it's not bad.
Especially now that a bunch of people have lived in Germany, Netherlands, Sweden etc. perhaps because these countries were in their "soft power golden age" recently and were highly-voted in duubious quality of life rankings.
And perhaps people are just starting to realize that those things don't measure how subjectively miserable it feels to live in these places.
NiceCandle5357@reddit
Exactly!
WestDeparture7282@reddit
I tried France 6-7 years ago but since I don't have a computer science degree, nobody thought I'd be a good developer. My work portfolio was more accepted in the Netherlands. Now the Netherlands is chasing foreigners away and my career is at a point where I could make it work in France too. Things change! But like you said it is kind of funny. Lots of complaints come out of Germanic counties and the Nordics.
magnusdeus123@reddit
For sure. I'm a software developer from Quebec, so I've worked a ton with French people who fleed France in the 2010s to work in Canada. But all of them have gone back to France now and they seem to be doing great.
NiceCandle5357@reddit
I'm waving from the northwest haha. Finally leaving after 5 years. I wanted to leave after one but had custody issues with my ex who threatened to Hague Convention me every other week. Now he's got a new girlfriend so me and the kiddo can go home.
HerroWarudo@reddit
Probably human experience in general, a small black dot on a white paper and most would just focus on the dot, no matter how much white space left around them.
His whole experience might change with just one good friend. But who knows.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
It's just that the other 90% don't make themselves heard. I described this to my one German friend (who no longer lives in Hamburg): life in Germany is where nothing happens and occasionally someone shouts at you. And at least for me that has been my experience.
magnusdeus123@reddit
Man, totally breaks my heart reading your comments here. I can imagine how hard it must be.
BagofGawea@reddit
I definitely posted something on this sub(?) somewhat recently about 10%-20% of Germans being culturally accepted assholes. But I took it from someone else so apparently many of us share this sentiment
tripletruble@reddit
It's a thought I've had for years and lately been seeing it pop up in reddit. Apparently a universal observation.
numb3rsnumb3rs@reddit
Leaving the NL was the best decision I’m have made. Glad I tried but it’s not for me. Good luck.
hudibrastic@reddit
Lol, this is so similar to the Netherlands, then they will come up “ah soryyy, it is just that we are direct”… yes, they use this thing of being direct as an excuse to be assholes
Anyway, those countries, Germany, Netherlands, and Nordics are not worth living… I left the Netherlands for the UK, best decision on my life (the worst was moving to the Netherlands in the first place)… the thing you are feeling just consumes you more and more
NiceCandle5357@reddit
The Nordics are terrible, it's such a relief finding this post after 5 years living here! I'm even half Nordic myself by birth and a dual citizen and it's been completely miserable.
carnivorousdrew@reddit
When I started being "direct" with the Dutchies they would get into emotional tantrums or become very "illogical" and "irrational". Man, do I love all their trigger words lol Just point to them how dirty their city centers are and they will loose their shit, because only they can make jokes on the garbage in other countries' city centers. They live off of copium.
numb3rsnumb3rs@reddit
You can’t talk to me like that! You aren’t full-cheese!
SeanBourne@reddit
This exactly - the ‘direct’ thing is entirely an excuse for bad behavior.
I’ve noticed that when you are ‘direct’ right back to them, they don’t handle it well at all… which puts the lie to it being ‘just their culture’.
NiceCandle5357@reddit
I genuinely think it's is the entirety of Western Europe, maybe excluding the Mediterranean and of course the UK and Ireland. I think they've got great PR but their reputations as bastions of culture, refinement and class are mostly undeserved at this point.
gringosean@reddit
Why are these posts always about Germany 😂
magnusdeus123@reddit
As someone who almost bought hard into the idea of Germany as this awesome place pre-COVID, the country had a huge soft power push during the 2010s for a lot of people within and outside Europe.
For people from the Americas, it was like liberal paradise. Earn money but get vacations and healthcare as well.
For Europeans of the East and South, money, safety, convenience (not European so I'm just guessing)
We really underestimate how popular Germany was during the 2010s. A lot of people are waking up from that hangover now realizing that it's really not a country conceived to be a welcoming place for immigrants of any kind - even other Europeans.
Alive_Daikon9955@reddit
"..but it's my shithole..." <3 sums up everything. :D
louisemc3@reddit
B2 is a good level of German. You will be way happier in the UK. Return to the UK. You have only one life! Be happy!
Berliner1220@reddit
Why is the UK a shithole? I think the UK is nice. Sure there are problems, but that’s everywhere and at least in the UK you can meet British friends quite easily. Not the same here in Germany.
If you’re miserable maybe take a few months to go back to the UK and work remotely or take a sabbatical at work and think about what you want with your life.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I don't think it is, really. I just know a lot of people in the UK romanticise Germany so much. The point is that even if German infrastructure is better, I don't care any more. Life is about people, not infrastructure (unless you're from a very, very poor country, perhaps. And that is indeed the immigrant that Germany is best at attracting).
Berliner1220@reddit
Exactly as you say, your life is not a job description based on infrastructure or social protections where you check those off and everything falls into place
Semido@reddit
It’s funny you say that, but his experience of Germany reminded me of the UK. He’s basically describing expat life…
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Nanny controlling state (lack of freedom of expression etc etc), high taxes, terrible weather, little social cohesion any more since everyone has a different culture.
Daidrion@reddit
You're describing Germany, mate.
Knightstersky@reddit
As a polish immigrant in the UK: Absolute bollocks.
Except for the weather bit, that's fair.
agreetodisagreedamn@reddit
UK is super nice - the crowds beam of energy, the wit and humour in UK is amazing. People are loud, people are funny, people are not so sophisticated like EU which is great. So much perfection can kill people.
WestDeparture7282@reddit
I'm from the US and sometimes I feel like the UK would be best for me not because of the shared language but for this exact reason, I feel the Brits have a bit more energy and don't take themselves so seriously. I too love the humor.
agreetodisagreedamn@reddit
Absolutely! They are very funny and wild love it.
WestDeparture7282@reddit
I have a second wifi network that is a UK VPN just to be able to watch British tv. Too good.
agreetodisagreedamn@reddit
British humour is famously dank!
saopaulodreaming@reddit
I have some Brazilian friends who moved to the UK. They said--in their experience-- that British people are very patient and don't get all up in arms if you make mistakes in English. In fact, they are very encouraging and helpful.
xingshu@reddit
If I had no one here and was your age then I would almost certainly return to the UK and give that a shot. If that doesn't pan out, which is entirely possible, then Germany or any other land is still here waiting for you.
You go through stages living here, but at the end of the day, Germany is for Germans, which is neither good or bad, it's just how it is. I think it is especially difficult for immigrants here, as the the stats show, because a lot of the hallmarks of German culture are essentially the opposite of "expat"/immigrant culture. We have to be optimistic and take risks, but culturally Germany is very conservative and risk averse. In Scotland, nobody seems to a give shit, and the place really is falling apart, it feels like it's all just a big laugh sometimes. Just yesterday, in Germany, my neighbour came outside and told my sister in law off for parking "incorrectly" at the side of the street. It used to annoy me but now I just accept it and laugh at his boldness, the alternative is you go insane.
I've got polish friends here, and they say the same but different stories about England. It's just cultural stuff, either it gels with you or it doesn't, but ofc nowhere is going to feel like your real home, unless you've got some sort of trauma you are running away from.
If you do decide to stay, or in the future go somewhere else, all I can suggest is trying to not give yourself such a hard time. You've achieved so much, even if maybe sometimes it feels like it was for nothing. Just be yourself and don't worry about not assimilating. I still say thank you when I get off the bus in Germany, despite my wife thinking it's silly and locals giving me some looks. I'm fine with sometimes resorting back to English or Denglish if my German isn't cutting it. Big deal, as long as we can communicate. When I lived in Asia, all sorts of languages were mixed up in a single conversation, I think it's amazing.
Don't build this up too much dude. Take some extended leave in UK or move back for good. Or stay in Germany, and organise multiple visits home a year. Try to embrace whatever decision you decide to make.
rantott_sajt@reddit
The best decision I ever made was leaving Germany. Just go. You won’t regret it.
BranFendigaidd@reddit
To where?
reflibman@reddit
His home. The UK. Which the poster talked about going back to.
BranFendigaidd@reddit
This ain't OP. Where did the user moved compared to geany and is better
Legitimate-Front3987@reddit
I don't have any input but just what to congratulate you for getting a local girlfriend. Even if it was temporary, it's quite impressive that you managed it.
MountainousTent@reddit
Why’s that?
Legitimate-Front3987@reddit
I don't know how it is for you, but I find it hard to connect with someone from a different culture.
InazumaThief@reddit
it depends on how open both parties are. if both are open, the differences can turn into never-ending things to talk about or share with each other
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
People will want to at least go on dates with you in Germany if you're British. It does/did help. Currently seeing an Italian woman and she's basically been into British culture since she was a child.
keenast@reddit
Stop whining and complaining and leave - that’s your problem right there…
Civil-Nose-9405@reddit
Can’t stand most Germans. They will make you lose your spark.
Nearox@reddit
Last time I was in Berlin people were extremely friendly and proactively helping with things.
BranFendigaidd@reddit
Oh same. Hamburg is nice but only if you are German or want to be German. I might be leaving it soon as well.
In what field are you working?
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I am a postdoctoral researcher.
B-767_Sailing_QRP@reddit
My experience has not been as bad as yours, but I can relate. I have ties through my wife, but I never feel like I'm part of anything in Germany. I had a layover in the UK and I was talking at the pub with complete strangers. That doesn't happen in Germany. Maybe Cologne. So I thin you have your answer without any input, but I get it. There are great parts of the culture in Germany that I enjoy, but it's by no means an easy social culture to break into.
FlowFlow69@reddit
I lived in 15 countries including Germany. It’s basically the same pretty much anywhere. Most of your friend will be expat and maybe 5% will be locals. Local folks usually already have a life and don’t want to make the effort to include more people in their circle.
Also, as European living in an other European country, I don’t think you should call yourself « immigrant ». I never considered myself as an immigrant but maybe because I knew that I was going to stay just a few years.
Semido@reddit
I agree - he’s described the expat experience. The key is to find what makes you happy and focus on the positive.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Germans lose their mind at the word expat. Frankly, I don't care that much about terminology. I live here and I work here. I am even a citizen through chance of birth. So yes, I suppose I'm neither an expat nor an immigrant.
Far-Tourist-3233@reddit
I feel the same way about Canada and Canadians
ShineStriking3364@reddit
Totally agree! The people don’t care and would fuck you over at any chance. I’ve had a few bad experiences with bad people living in Berlin. Enough is enough. Time to leave and start a new life somewhere else
Funky-Grey-Monkey@reddit
Holy shit, almost the same as the Netherlands!
Funky-Grey-Monkey@reddit
Holy shit, almost the same as the Netherlands!
grantr37@reddit
It's the same in all of Europe, a relative of mine married a Danish woman and they had 2 kids, raised them up in France as French, fluent French,Danish,German,Spanish and when they tried to go to university in France they were denied as they weren't French born even though they were carried into France as swaddled up babies a few days old.
Come home,they don't want you in Germany
Skum1988@reddit
Why people relate everything to France? He talks about Germany God damnit
Cielskye@reddit
I’m not doubting your story, but there’s definitely more to it than what your relatives are telling you. Even as a foreigner who’s not a native French speaker, I was able to enrol in the university in the city I was in as though I was a local. French universities are known to take everyone, but weed people out as you progress.
grantr37@reddit
Far south of France
wheel_wheel_blue@reddit
Yeah, nothing will be like the place where you grew up. As a migrant there is high chance that you will be living in that alternative society forever…
Ashamed_Fig4922@reddit
Sorry, but this is totally subjective and is experienced in return by many foreigner living in your country.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
For sure. I hope when I go back to the UK I will be slightly more empathetic and understanding toward immigrants than I might otherwise have been and have learned from this experience.
Odd-Performance3347@reddit
definitely not as much as Germany.
teutonicprincess@reddit
I was born in Hamburg and I agree that the people there are much more reserved than for example in Munich. But even there there are people who are kind and open and want to make friends. i was shocked to read that in 4 years you have not met any Germans. How in the world did you manage that? Also you say Germany is a shithole. What? In what way? And Great Britain is also a shithole. I have travelled in England and I found people charming and sweet and helpful. Maybe you need to open your eyes and start looking at the way you approach the world. There are cool people everywhere you go, especially young people like you. You are very young still. With your attitude I am not sure you will make friends anywhere. What are your interests or hobbies? What do you love? Remember: whereever you go, there you are. Things will not magically change, because you are in a different country. Just my take
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I never called Germany a shithole, in fact I called my own country a shithole instead.
You'd perhaps be surprised how common it is.
I have plenty of friends at work—all Ausländer. It's outside of work where the problems mostly begin.
Odd-Performance3347@reddit
There are cool people everywhere yes, but Germany has the least number of those people. They are the rudest, grumpiest, most unfriendly and arrogant western society. I am not even mentioning that almost 1 of every 4 person votes for a party that favours the people that committed the worst crimes in human history.
Airman4344@reddit
I'd ask why you wanted to leave your home in the first place. If it was to travel, then pick another place and travel there. Thailand is always looking for English teachers if you wanna start there.
Severe-Mood-2674@reddit
I'm Italian and have been living in Hamburg since 2014 (I moved here with my girlfriend when I was 28, just like you). I'm at a C1-C2 level and am moving back to Italy with her and my son next year for very similar reasons. During these years, we have achieved a lot: we have settled into a wonderful neighbourhood, yet somehow there's a deep sense of emptiness. If you feel this way after four and a half years, I don't think anything will ever change your mind. Move now while you can still manage your feelings. I wish you all the best!
BagofGawea@reddit
Oh my God I could have basically written this. Why does life feel so sterile here? Why are some people so fking miserable it poisons the water for everyone? I start to feel like moving back home becomes harder and harder to do but I feel dread at the thought of staying here another year
MountainousTent@reddit
Hahah same - the thing he said about meetups being mostly men really resonate with me
BagofGawea@reddit
Yeah I started going to only women’s meetups for exactly this reason lol
Jdgarza96@reddit
I feel for you my friend. Leave as soon as it’s practical to do so. If I could leave, I would. Unfortunately, I decided to have kids here so I’m stuck at least until they’re grown and out of the house.
bergler82@reddit
so … uh … you do know where the door is, right? I don’t get the whining? Don’t like it? Leave. I’ve lived in quite a few countries over the years. Whenever I didn’t like it, I left. Without any personal ties, why stay? If your heart yearns for the UK, by all means, why don’t you go there? Multiple flights leave daily. Trains. Cars. Shit even boats.
I came home after 10 years abroad and feel better now. Living abroad isn’t for everyone. No, living abroad isn’t even for some. It’s actually for a very few. So, just be honest and nice to yourself and go where you want to be.
Jdgarza96@reddit
You must be German…
MountainousTent@reddit
This ain’t helpful
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Actually there are no boats from Germany to the UK any more.
Vettkja@reddit
I’m a native English speaking immigrant in Germany and I like it a lot. I have friends and speak German all the time. I also moved here with zero German and after five years, two of which were covid, I’m at B2. That’s not high enough to make true German friends in German, in my opinion. So with most of my friends, we speak English. This is absolutely a barrier to deeper connection. Generally, life is good here. There are lots of opportunities to learn new skills, develop hobbies, do sports, etc. at far lower costs than in my home country.
But you sound miserable. And it sounds more than anything like you want to return to the “shithole” that is yours. So, do that. No one’s forcing you to be unhappy - just go home.
Cielskye@reddit
Very true. And we all reach that point eventually. This is expats, isn’t it? So the move was meant to be temporary. There are many of us in here who have lived in a few different countries and once you’re at the point where you’re as miserable as the OP seems, then it’s time to go. Either home or to the next country.
Vettkja@reddit
I think being an immigrant can be however temporary or permanent you want it to be, but yeah a lot of people choose to return to their home country at some point. Germany is my eighth country, but I don’t have any real intention of leaving it. If some cool opportunity arises though, sure :)
But OP really sounds to me like they want to go home. So they should do that. Even if after awhile they decide to expat again.
TheBurningQuill@reddit
Is it Germany or is it Hamburg?
I mean, if your experience of England was in Bradford or Hull, you might feel different about back home!
tripletruble@reddit
Hamburg is easily one of the most livable and cosmopolitan cities in Germany
TheBurningQuill@reddit
That may well be true, but OP isn't enjoying it. Manchester is the same in the UK, but I would rather eat my own sick than have to live there.
parachute--account@reddit
Hamburg is a nice, major city though.
sadtrader15@reddit
If you say your speaking is bad and say you’re B2, then it seems like you aren’t actually B2
Odd-Performance3347@reddit
stfu
MountainousTent@reddit
What a German thing to say
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
Depends what you call bad, I guess. I passed my B2 exam with 80%. 100% in oral section. telc. Last year.
tschmitt2021@reddit
Even you as an European feel like that! How do you think people from other continent feel? 😂
oils-and-opioids@reddit
Also a Brit in Germany, it's fucking soul crushing here. In the UK people are open to friends from work, friends as adults. Germans are done making friends after university so it's impossible to get integrated, then you hear nothing but blame for "not being integrated". Likewise if you shit on some governmental failing or the HS2, or whatever Brits will totally be like "yea, it's total shit", but in Germany no matter how broken the immigration system or the trains or the government is, German people will insist you are the problem and will make every excuse in the book for why their country is perfect.
You're just held to an unreasonable, unreachable standard as a immigrant. You need to work 40 hours a week, your employer doesn't need to give you any time off for an integration course, then they fail to have any integration course options that don't start or end in the middle of the work day, then they complain that immigrants don't take the course and restrict the places you can take the alternative citizenship exam (rather than the one only possible after the integration course). 5 different websites will have different lists of forms and documents you need for a visa or a service, which differs completely from what the Beamter will ask for at the appointment. You just can't fucking win, and nothing you do as an immigrant is ever good enough.
Life in the UK isn't perfect, there are some issues with the NHS, taxes, housing, etc. But I'd take all those problems in a heartbeat if it meant I never had to fucking fax a document to a government office, be ignored for 9 months and then need to threaten legal action to get a reply
FrauAmarylis@reddit
We are Americans who enjoyed living in Stuttgart where 1/3 of the city are foreigners.
We had great German neighbors too!
MountainousTent@reddit
Lol he’s right about the meetups just being full of nerdy men though
It seems like a uniquely German city thing
MountainousTent@reddit
“the meetups full of men trying to fuck tbh e one poor woman who joined”
Lmao this is so relatable - it’s like a classic in German cities
gaifogel@reddit
B2 is a good level actually,
bebok77@reddit
Was going to point or are the scale reverse ? B2 you start to be able to go on conversation (at medium level but at an acceptable level so it's flowing almost naturally). My spouse reached B2 in my language and she can communicate properly and understand almost everything
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I don't find it sufficient, personally. I understand what you mean but I don't really find it enough. That's why I'm working towards C1.
sophosoftcat@reddit
My personal hot take is that it depends on the language.
I speak French C2 now, but had to work my way up from zero as a teen. I remember being B2 and struggling intensely- because the French are not so generous with non-native speakers. They would never slow down, or for example if they use a word you just don’t know and you ask them to clarify, they will just keep repeating the same word in the exact same way, rather than explaining or using a synonym. Or if you use a new phrase even slightly incorrectly, they will laugh in a very nasty way.
Compare that with when I learnt Spanish- I have never improved beyond B2. But every time I roll out my basic Spanish it feels like they are so grateful they bend over backwards to understand.
bebok77@reddit
The difference is in the grammar quality and the translation process. She is a polyglot but she is still not that natural in more complex topic and her grammar is not great yet.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
It's good but it's not enough.
meshyl@reddit
You'll need to work in German to learn it, otherwise forget it.
Alarmed-Entrance9499@reddit
It sounds like the only problem you have with Germany is a lack of friends, have you considered that you could also feel lonely when you move back to the UK? Maybe you have a ton of friends just eagerly waiting for you to return and hang out with you, or maybe in the five years you've been gone, they've gotten serious jobs and/or families and don't have any time to hang out with you anymore. Point being, your social life once you're out of your twenties is probably going to be more isolated in comparison. Not necessarily, of course, but maybe your problem isn't with Germany, it's with being a guy in his 30s.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I know and I don't expect things to be the same when I go back. But at least I'll have my family, I'll have some friends, whom I'll see marginally more often than I currently do, and I'll see a future in the country. It's more than I currently have.
Point is I don't expect to repeat my 20s in my 30s. But I don't expect to be totally isolated either. I expect something in between. That, to me, would be acceptable.
Odd_Dot3896@reddit
As a Canadian in Germany I 100% agree. The only thing that helps is making friends.
carnivorousdrew@reddit
"I went to this depressing country full of racists and incels and now I am depressed." like, no shit man, many of us made that mistake here, just pack your stuff and go where your health won't suffer from it. Who cares about salaries.
Chaoticgaythey@reddit
This sounds fairly similar to my experiences in the midwestern US, but with an added language barrier. The easiest way to assimilate and be accepted was to move to a town next to where you wanted to live and then after you could 'pass' as a local moving where you wanted to actually go and saying you'd just moved from the last place. You'd still be an outsider, but at least a local outsider.
bearwithday@reddit
Just pack. Don't take it as a failure, or that you are giving up. You had a good time, you have some memories, you found friends along the way, and you learned somethings. Not everything has to last forever. I made my move and I'm so incredibly happy now. Recognizing what is working and not working for you takes courage and intuition. People move on from different phases in life all the time. Take this as a phase.
YetAnotherGuy2@reddit
Sorry the country isn't for you. At this point if you are so angry, upset and frustrated then leaving is definitely the right option. I've met many Brits who were quite happy but not all are a good fit.
Ultimately, living in a foreign country is about the people and not the financial benefits, so you're absolutely right.
I'm just struggling with how you can find Hamburg boring, honestly. I've been there a couple of times, I always get along great with the people and had a blast. Maybe you really need a change of place to get out of the hike you're in. If you're going to get up, why not shop around for Berlin in parallel? It's a very fun city, it might be just what you need.
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
It's fun to visit for sure. I just wouldn't recommend living here.
SoManyQuestions5200@reddit
Have you seen the comedy on YouTube, Instagram, tik tok , Liam Carp? He's a brit expat in Germany. Hilarious comedy, highly recommended if you need some comic relief to blow off steam. Its a very funny comedy about being an expat in Germany
duderos@reddit
When I lived in Germany I was lectured constantly by locals. Like even for jaywalking across an empty side street. lol
I still like it there but I can see getting tired of any place after 4 years.
These-Anxiety7570@reddit
man i know how it is trying to constantly trying prove your worth to people and trying to be part of there circle feels like , its a constant headache and a pain in the backend , just leave man your experience is feels like a nightmare
BerryOk1477@reddit
Just spent a few days in Southern Bavaria. It's a different world. People don't care about hyper correct German. Bavarian German isn't correct either in a pure German grammatical sense.
brass427427@reddit
You wasted your time ranting when you could have been packing .
Choice-Ad1477@reddit (OP)
I know. I know.
SweetAlyssumm@reddit
It's OK, OP. Just leave. It sounds horrendous. It's not a failure on your part. Maybe you can find a nicer place in the UK.