The end of V8 engines?
Posted by Bubbly-Character3924@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 487 comments
Whys are the automakers killing the V8 and even V6 engines. To me, there will always be a market for the bigger engines, especially for pickup trucks and large SUVs. The car makers want everyone in small turbo 4 cylinder. Is it just the sign of the times?
ShadowK2@reddit
V8’s are good for towing and sports cars. Probably something like 80% of cars aren’t towing and aren’t sports cars.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Because most people don't need those V8 engines anymore when the V6 and I4 make the same power reliably with a turbo. The 2.7T in the Silverado for example makes more hp and torque than the 5.3 in my 13yr old truck with significantly better mpg. For that middle hp range like 200-340hp theres a lot less of a need for a V8 in the modern day because the i4 and v6 can make the same power and for 95% of people will work fine. Notice how the only V8's still around are the high horsepower ones right? Its because thats a zone a V8 will excell in, high horsepower and torque with smooth power delivery.
Delicious-Sorbet5722@reddit
Yeah, but that 2.7T isn’t going to last nearly as long as that 5.3 will.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
The 2.7 is pretty well regarded for its reliability and the 5.3 made after like 2007 are not.
Timewastinloser27@reddit
The 2.7 also has afm, and turbos are wear items that will need to be replaced.
VegaGT-VZ@reddit
Turbochargers arent exactly new or exotic technology. And yes technically they are wear items but I don't think most turbos actually need to be replaced in the real world.
william_f_murray@reddit
Laughs in chevy cruze
Katyw1008@reddit
Must be a first gen. 182k without even a check engine light on my 2019. And been tuned for the entire time.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
The gen 2 Cruze were much more reliable vehicles, dare I say it even excellent cars. My grandma has a 2017 or 18 Cruze and it has never had anything break in the 100k miles she has put on it so far. It had a weird check engine light a few months ago, turns out her MAF was just dirty and she was still rocking the dirty original air filter, cleaned the sensor and replaced the filter and the light went away
Katyw1008@reddit
They really are. But people sleep on them constantly because the first gen were such POS.
Budget_Vegetable2754@reddit
Laughs in Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover Evoque
Only-Ad5049@reddit
The turbo wasn't the issue in my 2012, it was the water pumps we had to keep replacing when we gave up and traded it.
MetalJesusBlues@reddit
I had a 2010 that was pretty solid.
DannyBones00@reddit
The only reason those Cruze turbos were prone to failure was that they started being driven by the same people who used to drive Cavaliers. Can’t skimp on maintenance with a turbo.
DJ_Necrophilia@reddit
My 2013 cruze was the worst car I've ever owned
Fantastic_Joke4645@reddit
Aren’t Cruze turbos like $200 on Amazon?
DJ_Necrophilia@reddit
No idea, but it also had a host of other issues
Last_Computer9356@reddit
Of course they do. They wear out all the time on cars. This is a crazy statement to make.
Lanoir97@reddit
Turbos are wear items the same way main bearings or fuel injectors are wear items. When they finally wear out, most folks are just gonna get a new car.
VegaGT-VZ@reddit
Usually stuff like turbos and main bearings fail due to poor maintenance or bad design. If you keep up with maintenance I dont see why a turbo wouldn't last for 200K+ miles. And at that kind of mileage any kind of failure is fair game.
Yokelocal@reddit
My turbo is considered “fragile” but it’s got 220,000 miles on it with zero detectable issues.
Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit
Miles are meaningless—especially for a turbo. It’s thermal cycles.. or starts.
220,000 miles over 15 years is not the same as 220,000 miles over 5.
That’s why that EcoBoost endurance test they did circa 2010 always made me suspect.
Yokelocal@reddit
I think that’s the case for a lot of things on cars it’s just the best metric we have.
For fleet cars, it might be hours because of idling.
In my case, the car is ridden hard and put away wet. Not a ton of highway driving.
I hit red line every time I drive it. However, I make sure the oil is one before I do so, and don’t do any wide-open throttle at low RPMs.
It does have the advantage of being a Japanese brand.
Particular-Bad2179@reddit
Put away wet?
Yokelocal@reddit
When things get particularly hot and heavy ;)
Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit
Fair.
But even Japanese brand is meaningless.
I had a 2018 Honda Civic that has a class action lawsuit against its turbo engine. Got rid of it before finding out what oil dillution does to the engine and turbo.
BoboliBurt@reddit
Engine hours are really what matters. Because it you are driving 60,000 miles a year, chances are you arent driving 24/7 but are averaging 50mph+ as well, versus the usual less than 20 or even less than 15 in a city, with all the wear and tear.
There is possible way my 2009 Civic averaged even 20mph for 230k miles.
SpaceAgePotatoCakes@reddit
Heck the turbos on sports cars that were designed and machined using 80s technology, then abused and neglected by early 00s owners, make it 125K+ miles. 200K+ shouldn't be a problem on a modern vehicle.
ActuaryFar9176@reddit
The turbo isn’t the issue. The issue is that the engine is too small to move the load on its own and it is always pumping boost. Honda gave up on the 1.5 turbo in the crv because it was pushing gasoline into the oil. I had a Chevy 2.7, same issue it only made 28k and it blew up.
heymrdjcw@reddit
The CRV is still a 1.5 turbo? Or a hybrid. But the ICE only version is still the 1.5 turbo.
ActuaryFar9176@reddit
Shit that is unfortunate
DadVan-Soton@reddit
BMW diesel turbos lasting around 40k to 45k
VegaGT-VZ@reddit
There are some BMW NA gas engines that didn't last much longer. That's a BMW problem.
DueSalary4506@reddit
thanks. I'll steer clear of bad design...... ha
Moistinterviewer@reddit
Why are so many turbos produced, sold and reconditioned aftermarket? (Far more than other wear items like bearings and piston rings)
Lawineer@reddit
Turbos definitely fail. Obviously, reliability depends on application, design and components, but I would expect a turbo to fail before an engine overhaul is needed in most gas applications.
VegaGT-VZ@reddit
Even if turbos fail before the engines they are attached to, if that failure time is after hundreds of thousands of miles, Im not sure it matters.
SpaceCricket@reddit
Right. This is a very old school thought process. Comes across as pearl clutching “they’re takin mah V8s away”
There are plenty of terrible low quality V8s out there now, and there are plenty of reliable turbo 4s.
sactivities101@reddit
Its about heat cycles, more stress on smaller areas, and more moving parts
Dynodan22@reddit
The AFM is not like a 5.3 it's not done with extra lifters it's similar to Honda set up and turbos are on diesels and have lasted a long time
Granddy01@reddit
AFM aka most of GM's v8 lineup for nearly decades now lmao?
Also we're not sure on how reliable long term the Borgwarner turbo is in the thing but they aren't suppose to be wear items unless we are now going to say cylinder heads are wear items since the valve guides can fail and drop a valve.
fusannoshadowkick@reddit
Guess what, the entire car is a wear and tear item. Not all car parts or brands are created equal. The brand and model type will actually dictate which one will be reliable or not. In the end all cars are like lottery tickets. You might get an unlucky one. Turbos usually go bad because of user modification or neglect on maintenance like oil changes.
NerdWithoutAPlan@reddit
Everything is a wear item if you run it long enough.
Venomkilled@reddit
Oh man I sure hope my vehicle with many moving parts won’t run into issues of wear and tear
luckymethod@reddit
Pistons are wear items too. Every part of an engine is a wear item. This comment is stupid.
Timewastinloser27@reddit
Right and turbos have more moving parts, and constantly under more stress than most other components on an engine. Ive sold hundreds and hundreds of Turbos. Ive sold like 20 pistons total over the last 12 years in several different parts departments.
Ralph_O_nator@reddit
Turbos on big rigs and other commercial vehicles easily last 500,000 miles before needing to be removed and replaced. Depending on the engine some of the are the exact same model used on passenger vehicles. You’ll have a lot more other components failing before most modern turbos.
Timewastinloser27@reddit
Im in heavy equipment parts sales as a profession. Our haul truck went through 2 turbos last year. I sell at least one turbo a month. Before this I sold gm parts, I've sold lots and lots and lots of turbos lol. Ive also sold lots and lots and lots of gm v8 engines also though.
Ralph_O_nator@reddit
The twin CAT C12’s on my boat still have original turbos on them. 20,000 hours on both. We’ve done one CAT factory reman kit on them. I can’t remember the hours we did it at. Both are in tip-top shape. Bilges so clean you could eat off of them. Zero leaks.
Sad-Fix-2385@reddit
If only old technology was reliable we’d all be driving carbureted, air cooled iron block motors without AC, power steering or anything else that could break and is not absolutely necessary for moving the vehicle. Turbos have been in production vehicles for over 50 years now and are as much wear items as clutches, transmission and motors themselves.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
A clutch is literally a wear item though that probably won’t last the life of the car. Kinda a weird example.
Sad-Fix-2385@reddit
If you can’t drive manual maybe, plenty of manuals with the first clutch with 200-300k km in Europe.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
200-300k km isn’t the lifespan of the car though
funkthew0rld@reddit
A turbo rebuild is a lot less than replacing a 6.2L, which are failing left, right and centre right now.
Last turbo I went through was $500 to have professionally rebuilt when the vehicle was at 200k km and 20 years old.
Nobody is going to care about their GM 1500 enough at that point to bother, but this was on a 90’s rally homologation special, and the $500 was peanuts compared to the value of the car, which since has gone nothing but up.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
On the DOHC engines AFM has proven to be much more reliable, it doesn't use the lifters like the V8's do to activate it.
Malakai0013@reddit
Just about everything on a car is a wear item. Having four extra cylinders is adding several extra wear items. A turbo is easier to replace than piston rings.
WordWithinTheWord@reddit
As if AFM and DOD is working for GM V8s? Lol
The_Real_NaCl@reddit
Turbochargers have been around for a long, long time. We’re way past the point of them being wear items, and if they do go out, it’s due to negligence and/or manufacturing defect, a la the VR30DDTT engine.
mr_bots@reddit
Cylinder deactivation on DOHC engines have so far appeared to be a lot less troublesome than on pushrod engines. It’s basically been VVL but one of the stages on some of the cylinders has a zero lift cam profile versus the collapsible lifters OHV engines use.
Nice-Log2764@reddit
Yes there’s definitely some very reliable turbo engines. But at the end of the day, a turbo charger still introduces an added point of failure. Even the most reliable turbocharged engine can’t possibly last as long as its naturally aspirated counterpart. The great thing about some of the legendary bulletproof engines from the last half century or so is that they just keep on going for ages. Even if you neglect them, even if you don’t change your oil… they’ll just keep on firing. And even when something does break, they’re so simple that it’s not that expensive to fix. Catastrophic engine failure generally doesn’t happen on jeeps 4.0 L straight 6’s and fords 4.6L V8’s and well… virtually any Toyota engine from the last few decades. That’s largely because of their simplicity. There’s just not that much in there that can break. But when we start introducing turbos, and variable valve timing and all these fancy features that improve performance and gas mileage… it comes with the consequence of those thing breaking and leading to repairs potentially so expensive that it can cause the whole vehicle to just be scrapped.
I have a 1998 toyota Corolla that my uncle bought brand new, and honestly didn’t even take that great of care of it. His son drove it when he was in high school, then it sat in their driveway for a few years and finally I bought it from them a couple years ago. The thing just refuses to die. It’s almost 30 years old and just keeps going and going and going. It’s got 350,000 miles on it, has driven across the country 3 times and I’d take it across the country again tomorrow. And this is all with minimal maintenance or repairs. I don’t think you can expect that kind of longevity out of most modern cars.
ActuaryFar9176@reddit
I had one for a work truck. Engine went at 28k.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
AFM is so bad. Get that deleted and it'll last forever.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
You shouldn't have to delete something to make an engine reliable, especially when it involves tearing half of the engine apart and making your vehicle fail emissions for the rest of its lifespan. I'm gonna rebuild my motor with an AFM delete kit, but if you decide to pay someone to do it you'll be at least $2500 out just for labor alone.
Semen__king@reddit
Fail emissions? Whats that?
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Fail emissions testing, it's required in my state
Semen__king@reddit
Yea I know what it is was just being sarcastic. We dont have any testing/inspections in my state.
_Phail_@reddit
A great way to indicate that you're being sarcastic in a post is to put a /s a couple of lines down, like this: (tho this isn't actually a sarcastic comment)
/s (not actually sarcastic)
LameBMX@reddit
so /s /s or /s² ?
Fantastic_Joke4645@reddit
Enjoy the dirty air.
Semen__king@reddit
I live out in the middle of nowhere the air is great!
According_Flow_6218@reddit
Why would afm delete cause emissions failure?
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Tuning your ECU is what causes emissions failure in my state, it's an automatic failure.
GearheadGamer3D@reddit
Your state sucks for that then tbh, my state doesn’t have emissions or inspections and we’re fine.
According_Flow_6218@reddit
Same!
Lower_Kick268@reddit
It is what it is, I drove around with no emissions sticker for years and was fine, the issue is if I get pulled over I'm fucked. A cop can write you a fix-it ticket for not having emissions stickers if he wants, and obviously my vehicle will not pass emissions.
According_Flow_6218@reddit
How can they know?
InsaneGuyReggie@reddit
That’s a feature, not a flaw
Catalina_wine_mix@reddit
I live in the Ohio and the salt kills the car before the engine goes.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Yeah, we got a 2.7t loaner truck and it was hilarious. It's wild driving a pickup that sounds like a civic. We had to haul with it and it was about what you'd expect out of a 4 banger. If you want a truck for a daily sure, but its a pig on fuel when it needs to work, the power isn't linear, and I'd imagine putting that much stress on a 4 banger wouldn't be good for longevity.
cat_of_danzig@reddit
That's how most people use pickups. 52% use them for commuting daily, and two thirds will never tow.
tomcat91709@reddit
For those of us who use our trucks to tow and haul bigger things, V-8s will never disappear. My 6.6L will always be an option for tow package trucks. This is from my local Chevy dealer as I am looking to get a 4x4 version of what I already have.
They may cost more in the future, but there is no substitute for cubic inches when real power and torque are necessary. V-8s will never disappear. I will never win a drag race. But I can take your race car with me at the end of the day.
The medium and heavy duty truck platforms will see to that.
willsidney341@reddit
The way things are going, i wouldn’t be surprised if before long all the big gas v8s end up being replaced in new truck lineups by inline turbo 6’s.
JCDU@reddit
Meh, you can make any engine type strong or weak - there's some legendary 4-pots that last forever and there's some fragile V8's that shit the bed at the drop of a hat.
Other than Carbro types whose fragile masculinity can't live without a V8, manufacturers use what works best for what's needed.
side__swipe@reddit
What 4pots last forever attached to 4500lbs?
JCDU@reddit
Isuzu 4BD1T is a strong contender. But in Europe there's millions of 4-pots hauling round cars, SUV's and vans that are up to 7700lbs plus whatever towing weight, and plenty of small to mid size goods vehicles are running 4cyl diesels too.
Land Rover's 4-pot engines generally lasted very well, from the originals through to their 200/300TDi and TDCi those are in 4500lb+ vehicles and are heavily used for towing up to their 7700lbs limit and are renowned for being very good at it.
I don't know why you'd think number of cylinders has any bearing on reliability, the two are not linked.
side__swipe@reddit
Sorry not to move the goal post but I meant gas engines as we are cranky talking gas v8’s being reliable and them being replaced by 4 cylinder turbos.
JCDU@reddit
Same same, millions of 4cyl turbos in the world working reliably in all sorts of vehicles.
Just because one manufacturer throws an under-specced engine into a truck to pass emissions on the cheap one time doesn't prove anything - there's been plenty of unreliable V8's fitted to trucks over the years too.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Why does everyone associate v8's with dick swinging and fragile egos? Is this a self projection issue with everyone? Do most people buy cars just for the social appearance? I bought mine based on what it is mechanically and based on my experience and preferences.
JCDU@reddit
I've been around car guys a lot, hell most people would describe me as a car guy too and I own 3 V8's myself - there is DEFINITELY a whole group of guys who have very fragile egos and their cars are a major part of their hyper-masculine self-image along with shitting on anything that's NOT a V8 or some other "manly" choice, being very angry/threatened about EV's and anything else they perceive as being due to the nanny state or wokeness, and a whole load of other toxic masculinity bullshit.
Go to a few events where these types gather and you'll see stickers and T-shirts with all sorts of hilariously over-compensating slogans, usually accompanied by flames, skulls, wolves howling at the moon, etc. etc.
There's nothing wrong with liking a particular car or engine or whatever scene you're into but making it your whole personality and using it (aggressively) as some sort of performative masculinity is stupid and toxic.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Posers everywhere lol
human743@reddit
Manufacturers use what works best for economics, CAFE requirements, emissions, regulations, etc. Best for what the customer needs is low on the list.
JCDU@reddit
Because companies famously do really well by ignoring what customers want?
human743@reddit
The government has a bigger stick. And US car manufacturers famously don't do really well. They go bankrupt and the government bails them out.
series-hybrid@reddit
The corporations literally want it to last 150K miles, and then be scrapped. They do NOT want them to last 300K
Lower_Kick268@reddit
The 2.7 engines are quite overbuilt though, they can handle the stress fine as far as they've shown. If you need something to haul heavy stuff that's why they still sell the V8 trucks or the Duramax , like I said for 90% of people it's perfectly fine, and even for towing a small boat or trailer it's perfectly serviceable.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Oh yeah, it's fairly impressive how much tq they got out of it tbh. For a daily or small towing they work great. We put a skid of material in it, so we worked it. It did impress me
Lower_Kick268@reddit
I wanna say it puts out like 310 up and 400lbs of torque, it's pretty impressive what GM's capable of when they make good decisions lol. We got a Silverado Turbomax on loner while my truck was at the dealer and I loved it, it's got really good power for what it is, and it's all at really low RPM too. Like with my 5.3 you really don't start getting good power till like 2600rpm, with the Turbomax you start getting it way down low at like 1800rpm, definitely takes some getting used to but it's pretty cool
Octane2100@reddit
They've upped the torque. My 2025 is rated at 310hp/430lb ft of torque. It's actually pretty insane.
Glad to see someone on here talking so highly of the 2.7. I work for a Chevy dealer and that's easily one of the most reliable engine that has come from GM in about 20 years.
BatmanBrandon@reddit
How similar is the 2.5T in the new Traverse/Acadia/Enclave. I really like the design of those, but I’ve been a bit turned off from GM the past decade or so. I didn’t realize it the 2.5T appears to be a downsized 2.7T, but if they’re both fairly stout it would put them on our radar when we’re ready to replace our Santa Fe. That car just got a new motor and turbo at 99k miles and is paid for, so we’re not in a rush, but it’s good to keep on top of which engine architectures seem to be dependable.
Octane2100@reddit
The 2.5 is a good engine. It uses a different bore size and slightly different stroke to achieve the smaller displacement. The reason the 2.7 can build so much torque and produce the numbers it done is because of the exhaust manifold/turbo design, which is different from the 2.5. However, on a Traverse the difference is negligible.
One thing we see a lot of with the Traverse is cooling system issues. For whatever reason, lots of the quick connect couplings on the cooling system tend to leak. Take it with a grain of salt though, because for every one I see, there's thousands out there that have never had and never will have a problem.
dogswontsniff@reddit
That's what 3/4 tons and 1 tons are for. Constant work.
Most people DONT need their trucks for anything truck related more than a few times a year. And they daily it the rest of the time.
Which is how we ended up here with every half ton being technology filled and luxurious
babicko90@reddit
What is the lifetime of a truck in reality? Someone surely analyzed this, analyzed different use cases, and figured out that you dont need massive engines for 90% of people buying
darksoft125@reddit
Also I'm curious on the statistics of the longevity of a V8 vs a turbo-4. I think tons of people fall victim to survivor's bias because the V8s still on the road are the ones that didn't have a major failure already.
ratrodder49@reddit
I don’t have exact numbers for you, but think about it this way.
Let’s say a 5.3 V8 makes 350 horsepower without boost.
Let’s say the 2.7T makes 350 horsepower with max boost.
The 5.3 is making that power under much, much less cylinder pressure and strain than the 2.7T. The 2.7T can’t be turned up much more than it already is without major internal upgrades, but you make those same upgrades to the 5.3 and you’re able to withstand 800+ HP.
The 5.3 therefore is going to be able to last longer and be more reliable because it’s not being pushed to its absolute limits every time you hook your Silverado to a trailer.
There’s a reason Cadillac used an 8.2L V8 for their largest land barges. Torque. A turbo four couldn’t dream of making the torque that a massive V8 or even a big inline six can, and torque is what moves weight efficiently.
unduly_verbose@reddit
GM’s 2.7T makes 430 ft-lbs of torque to the 5.3’s 383 ft-lbs of torque…
CompetitiveBox314@reddit
As soon as someone claims turbocharged engines don't make torque you can pretty much ignore everything they have to say.
ratrodder49@reddit
Okay, and you put a turbo on the 5.3, run it at 9-10 PSI and you’re making and easy 550 HP / 550 ft-lbs. I didn’t say turbo engines can’t make torque. I said small displacement turbo engines can’t make torque. Not like what larger displacement engines can. There’s a reason semi trucks run 12+ liters of displacement.
SlartibartfastMcGee@reddit
What you’re missing is that GM reinforced the absolute shit out of the 2.7l in order to account for what you’ve said.
Turns out just designing an engine for modern emissions is more reliable than trying to limp an old engine design along (6.2 v8)
Kyle81020@reddit
2.7 L engines aren’t small?
Dynodan22@reddit
Well they do only weigh 80lbs lol
Viharabiliben@reddit
And semi engines are long stroke diesel inline six with big turbos. Very narrow power band but 1000 ft-lbs torque.
I’d rather have a 2.7 inline six than a four cylinder. Will run smoother and last longer.
imthatoneguyyouknew@reddit
Just a small correction, 1000 ft lbs is pickup truck diesel territory. Most semi trucks fall into the the 1650-2050 ft lbs range torque wise.
Lanoir97@reddit
Torque curve matters more than max torque imo. Off idle power makes a significant difference when towing.
That being said, most folks could pull everything they ever want with the 4 cylinder.
FWIW, EVs have a more favorable torque curve but I never see anyone advocating for buying a Rivian because it pulls great.
unduly_verbose@reddit
The 2.7 makes max torque at low (1K-4K) rpms, here’s a torque curve from the internet which is ideal for towing.
Agreed with your point that an EV is the “best” for towing but nobody wants that.
I just hate when people still cling to the idea of “there’s nothing stronger than a V8” when times have changed. There’s nothing that sounds as good as a V8, but there’s far more capable platforms, it’s not 2004.
Lanoir97@reddit
Oh damn, I was unaware of that. Fucker probably pulls great.
Yeah, a lot of outdated thinking and general copium regarding why we “can’t” not have a V8.
It sounds good, it’s good for performance. At this point in time diesel V6s are pushing comparable power to 20+ year old big blocks and towing about as well. Folks who haven’t pulled with a 454 in a couple decades have a very rose colored recollection of what exactly it was like.
GamingWithaFreak@reddit
I used to pull eith a Ford 460efi. At the factory, it was only rated for 245 horsepower. In 1997 🤣
fiddlythingsATX@reddit
I had a 79 460. That thing was THIRSTY and weaker than a first gen Honda Ridgeline.
Raalf@reddit
Any truck running a big block wasn't tuned for HP. The motor could be tuned for it, but trucks aren't normally designed for speed. There's obvious exceptions but they are exceptions.
GamingWithaFreak@reddit
That was not a truck that was happy going over 60. But, when we retired it, it was a decent field runner. Especially with some 35 inch mickeys and the 466 cobra heads
NegativeAd1432@reddit
It’s a bit of a silly comparison, but I often marvel at how much more power my 2.0 tdi Jetta makes compared to my 88 Chevy half ton. Slightly more hp, like 100+lb-ft more of torque, an extra gear. Torque starts just as soon as you’re off idle and the turbo spools and it pulls hard to red line unlike the 305 which had a pretty narrow power band.
My little turbo diesel economy car is way faster than my last truck and can pull more trailer while getting 4-5x the fuel economy in any condition.
I love me a v8 but turbo 4s have come an awful long way and are pretty much the best compromise choice for most applications.
4boltmain@reddit
I don't disagree that modern engines make way more power for the given displacement, but the 305 is a hard comparison to make because it was offered as the emissions friendly but still have a v8 package. It was never a powerful engine in any configuration. Its been known to make 20mpg in the right chassis though which is pretty cool.
NegativeAd1432@reddit
Well, like I said, it’s a silly comparison any way you look at it lol. The difference between a 305 and a 350 in near-stock form is nowhere near the difference when compared to the tdi though. But that’s what decades of innovation get you.
For what it’s worth, the 305 excelled in its day as a strong economical engine. My truck had mild gearing and a 5 speed, so it could get an honest 20+ mpg at 95kph, which honestly compares favourably even to a modern truck with a turbo 4. But those numbers fell hard if you got on a real highway or had to go into town.
Ultimately, given an empty shell of the same truck, I’d be very tempted to to tdi swap it… but I can fully see how the turbo 4 has overtaken the big v8 in most applications. Most people will be better off most of the time with one.
Dzov@reddit
Didn’t VW recall all their TDI models?
NegativeAd1432@reddit
They did, but just to patch the software so they couldn’t cheat on emissions anymore. The engines themselves are pretty solid. The emissions equipment can be mildly problematic, but if you’re lucky enough to live somewhere you can delete it, you’ve got a solid little machine.
imthatoneguyyouknew@reddit
Even the "what sounds best" argument is subjective. I think a v10 sounds worlds better than a v8 (and historically i have been a v8 guy). I think the Ford 5.0L (new one) is one of the best performance American V8s but also probably the most meh sounding one out there. The only ding for towing for EV would be range, and that will be dependent on vehicle, what you are towing, and how far.
jules083@reddit
I travel for work. Think migrant construction worker almost.
Guys I work with that have V6 turbo trucks have had pretty consistent engine failure when pulling their camper from jobsite to jobsite. Most of those little motors can't handle making that power for an extended period. 95% of trucks in the parking lot are a V8 gas or a diesel. It's rare you see an ecoboost or a Chevy with a turbo if the owner travels with a camper.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
Electric motors make incredible torque for towing but batteries haven’t reached the point where you can tow something substantial a long distance.
Spike-White@reddit
Have you seen recent hybrid pickups?
The electric motor is just to supplement the gas motor's initial torque when needed. Not to replace the gas motor, but to boost it.
Then once up to speed you're running entirely on the gas motor and the electric motor batteries are recharging.
Typically these hybrid trucks features a turbo V6 or similar. With more low-end torque than an old V8.
As an example, someone said the old aforementioned 8.2L V8 made 550 ft-lbs of torque.
A new twin turbo V6 Tundra hybrid makes 437 hp and 583 ft-lbs of torque.
ratrodder49@reddit
Difference is, the 2.7 is maxed out making that. The 5.3 has headroom. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make here.
human743@reddit
And the cadillac engine they mentioned makes 550 ft-lbs...
TowElectric@reddit
That torque comment isn't true anymore.
In a modern drivetrain if you want stupid torque, go inline hybrid. Electric motors are better at torque than ANY gas motor.
Trick-Ad-8298@reddit
You are 100% correct.👆
SmallHeath555@reddit
turbos have a limited lifespan. 1/3 of a normal engine
Hardpo@reddit
This might have been true 15 years ago. Things change
darksoft125@reddit
This might be anecdotal, but I see plenty of turbos out there with over 150k miles. There are certain turbo engines with flaws (ie Ford 1.0L with the wet belt and early 2.0L with coolant intrusion issues), but these seem to be individual design flaws, not because of forced induction.
Like I said, I'd love to see some data on this and not rely on anecdotal evidence.
Zarndell@reddit
And turbos are not super expensive to replace / refurbish. When you take into account stuff like fuel saved and whatelse.
RoseBizmuth@reddit
laughs in 437k mile stock turbos on a once rebuilt engine
Luka-Step-Back@reddit
I don’t think this is true at all.
S_balmore@reddit
Yeah, the sample size is definitely skewed because V8s are found in what types of vehicles? Trucks and sports cars. And what kinds of vehicles are people more likely to keep fixing as opposed to sending to the junk yard? Yup, trucks and sports cars.
imthatoneguyyouknew@reddit
Honestly it depends on so many variables, especially when it comes to trucks, that is doubt it would be possible to come up with a useful metric. Is the truck owned by a grandpa that wanted a truck, keeps up on his maintenance, but just uses it for groceries and church on Sunday? Is it owned by a welder who beats the piss out if it? A kid who modifies it and thinks maintenance is a scam? A landscaper? Construction worker? Most truck owners will tell you they do "truck stuff" even if that means they picked up 4 bags of mulch from home depot once.
Trick-Ad-8298@reddit
It’s not about what YOU think we NEED.
There, I fixed your comment for you.
Porschenut914@reddit
when the majority use their truck for commuting a to b, and the bed a couple times a month, the i4turbo does its job.
Different_Split_9982@reddit
That's where you might be wrong there's lots of turbo 4s that have passed 200/300,000 miles.
TheTense@reddit
That’s the dig. It can perform, but you’re just running a smaller engine harder. It doesn’t really need to last super long, just long enough…
We are past the age of big, understressed NA cars that go 250-300k miles with basic maintenance.
I bet we’ll see the turbo 4’s dying sooner around 180-200k miles before things just wear out or fail.
The new kings longevity on the road will be the basic hybrids like the Prius, CRV, and RAV4 with basic, non-turbo gas engines and no transmission.
Dynodan22@reddit
The 2.7 has had great history already it's been out since 2019 and revised in 2022 I am running one towing a camper . Oh it has turbo it will fail.Its the same statement as carburetor guys and injectors and injectors are firing at high rates that if people understood would argue about failure also. The 5.3 is a good engine before AFM and DFM .I believe GM is working ona new V8 and I guarantee it will he the engineer that did the 2.7
Justagoodoleboi@reddit
What you’re saying is Just not in line with my experience as an auto mechanic
bubbasass@reddit
What data are you basing that claim on? It’s like when people say thinner oils don’t protect as well as thicker oils and insist on running 5W30 or 40 when their engine calls for 0W16
Delicious-Sorbet5722@reddit
Common sense. More components equals more potential failure points. Pushing undersized engines to put out more power is going increase wear and tear. Which would last longer if they put the improved parts into naturally aspirated V8s vs. turbo charged 4 and V6s and didn’t have to mate them with 9-12 (or whatever they’re at now) speed transmissions solely because of government MPG requirements. Which would last longer? We’ll see what happens as all of these new turbo charged undersized engines becoming the standard is fairly new. I have two SUVs, a 2020 and 2022, both same brand. The smaller one is turbo charged and the mid-size is NA V6. Guess which one’s oil smells like gas well before it’s time for a change? I expect the NA V6 is going to last much longer. Only time will tell.
bubbasass@reddit
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying because in theory the NA would last longer since it has fewer parts and is likely less stressed. If you do manage to achieve high mileages (300k mile +), I imagine you’ll need a turbo at some point. Those turbos can spin 200,000 rpm.
I have a turbo inline 4 and a V6 NA. I find both smell like gas, largely because the V6 is used for a lot of short trip driving.
I recently did a used oil analysis on the turbo 4cyl. I was running 0W20 and the the report came back as I suspected - high fuel dilution. The oil was on the low end of a 20 grade, and on the high end of a 12 grade (8/12/16/20 grades have viscosity range overlap). The wear metals came back excellent. 11pm total wear metals on a 6000 mile interval.
While I expect the NA V6 to pretty much last forever, I also expect a very good long life out of these turbos.
The 8-10+ transmissions though - I dunno, I’m not as confident on those lol. We’ll see as time goes on
Never-mongo@reddit
That’s why. You’ll have to buy a new car sooner
StoicSociopath@reddit
Can't stand this antiquated argument.
2 of the top 5 highest mileage engine record holders are turbo 4s and 6s.
That 2.7 has forged internals and piston oil squirters, its much beefier than that cast 5.3.
Sure you might need a turbo at 200k miles but that 5.3 is going to need lifters
side__swipe@reddit
Smaller weight cars so less stress. It’s all about stress
qlexx666@reddit
exactly
J-Rag-@reddit
I don't think auto makers care about that too much anymore. There's a reason why they dont make em like they used to.
GovGavinNuisance@reddit
Objectively cars are all better built than they were 50 years ago. It isn’t even a debate.
J-Rag-@reddit
50 years ago? Well duh, you can't compare the two... a new car vs a 50 year old with a carburetor and a 3 speed auto. Don't be ridiculous with stupid comparisons.
Compare to cars from the late 90s and early 00s. Where about every auto maker produced their most reliable cars that were also easy to work on. Kinda like they were made for the people. That goes for about most things too. Cars, trucks, semi trucks, etc.
westcoastwillie23@reddit
Yea! I haven't seen a single vehicle made after 2020 stay on the road for 10+ years.
J-Rag-@reddit
Ha ha. No that's not what I'm saying. All the desirable shit is from 20-30 years ago. Ford with the 7.3 Powerstroke. And their gassers. Same with Dodge and Chevy. The 5.3 and 6.0 in the Chevy's. Any Honda cause these days Honda America that does cars that only come to the US have dropped in quality over the years. And every damn sensor and electronic that is on every new car is going to cause more problems later dowm the line. You see a 25 year old car with electrical problems, it's a bitch. Now imagine that on any new car. Fuuuuck that.
And look at the older semi trucks with the 60 series, N14, and i believe the C15. All some of the best engines ever produced for those trucks. Now about the only decent one is Cummins and the D13. The DD13 and DD15 are just piles of crap and it is super super common to see electrical ticks. Not to mention the emissions shit that takes a toll on em, and auto transmissions in them just dont compete to the old ones.
Just start comparing everything. The engineering was great in the early 00s, they weren't over ran and over complicated with electronics and sensors like the new stuff. Im sure at the base the engines are just as good, but I don't think the engine will be putting a new car to its grave in 15 years. It'll be more electronic issues that send it to the scrap yard. This is just me and my observations.
westcoastwillie23@reddit
I heard the old boys saying the same thing in the early 2000s. Nearly word for word., specific model callouts excluded.
GovGavinNuisance@reddit
This is nothing but survivorship bias. You see the one well maintained civic and don’t see the other 9 in the scrapyard.
J-Rag-@reddit
Compared to something new? Well yeah, they've had 25 more years of use and hundreds of thousands of miles of abuse. That doesn't change the fact that a lot of companies produced their most reliable cars and trucks back then.
GovGavinNuisance@reddit
I noted elsewhere that reliability can only be known in hindsight. So it isn’t surprising that we believe older cars are “reliable,” because through selection and survivorship bias we are only seeing the “reliable” things left on the road.
But take the Lexus LS 400. In hindsight a very well built and reliable vehicle. But the legend of that car belies the reality that - at the time - it was a brand new, first gen car from an unknown brand and was stuffed full with over 300 technical innovations to help it break into the US market and compete with the established luxury brands. We see the reliability in hindsight but there’s nothing that would have suggested at the time that buying one new was a smart decision vs buying a MB, BMW or Audi.
UsedState7381@reddit
Yes, obviously, but they absolutely aren't built as good as they used to be 20 years ago.
There is a undeniable decline in quality and longevity of new cars, in favor of fuel savings and tightened emissions standards.
GovGavinNuisance@reddit
No. They’re better built today than they’ve ever been.
Given than longevity is something you can only observe in hindsight, how can you possibly make this claim on the future?
crypticcamelion@reddit
Its more cost efficient to replace and old high consuming car with a new less consuming car. I have never scrapped a car due to the engine giving up even with smaller engine. In a coastal climate they are usually rusted up before the engine fails :)
crypticcamelion@reddit
Its more cost efficient to replace and old high consuming car with a new less consuming car. I have never scrapped a car due to the engine giving up even with smaller engine. In a coastal climate they are usually rusted up before the engine fails :)
crypticcamelion@reddit
Its more cost efficient to replace and old high consuming car with a new less consuming car. I have never scrapped a car due to the engine giving up even with smaller engine. In a coastal climate they are usually rusted up before the engine fails :)
Insertsociallife@reddit
The 5.3 gets about 17 mpg. 2.7T gets 22 mpg. Assuming an engine replacement costs $10k and gas is $3.15/gal, you would break even on an engine replacement at 238k miles.
BigPoppaT542@reddit
That's the point, it's a throwaway truck. You're just supposed to go get another one.
wiseguy187@reddit
Yea reliability check says you are wrong.
fromkentucky@reddit
Just has to last the length of the lease.
LivingGhost371@reddit
The aveage person buying a truck is going to care about how much it costs to fill their tank more than if it's going to last 200,00 miles or 150,000 miles.
GovGavinNuisance@reddit
That will affect the 4th owner in 95% of use cases, and that owner already knows what they’re buying into at that point.
bimmervschevy@reddit
If you build them right, they can last. Forged everything helps.
Academic-Morning7155@reddit
I disagree on the reliability part. To me,efficient also factors that in. If you have to get another engine or vehicle that's not efficiency. Try to find one record where the turbo model of a similar size engine lasted longer. If you can you should play the lottery.
systemfrown@reddit
Example: The V6 Ecoboost in my 2022 Transit Van produces nearly the same HP and even greater torque than the Triton V8 in my 2013 F-150.
Hell I could have gotten the Ecoboost back in 2013 but it was such a. We engine I didn’t trust it yet.
Jalakoh@reddit
This guy gets it
bomber991@reddit
If a turbo I4 makes the same power as a non-turbo V8, then the obvious answer is give me a turbo V8.
Liter_ofCola@reddit
They simply cost more to make them last just as long. And the cost doesn't offset the fuel savings. The Turbos cook everything under the hood. So premature wear of Sparkplug coils and under hood electronics happens. Not to mention even if the Turbos are perfect they simply don't have the lifespan of a naturally aspirated engine. We're seeing this across the board and with any manufacturer on turbo engines.
l008com@reddit
Its a damn shame they don't put that 2.7t in a real, honest to goodness, body on frame small SUV. A "real" blazer or trailblazer, not the garbage they currently make. -disgruntled former s10 blazer and current 1st gen trailblazer owner.
Slow_Investment_5920@reddit
Taking you "car guy" credentials back
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Even car guys have respect for the normal people daily's, not everyone needs a 400hp V8 engine in their lives
qlexx666@reddit
these 4 cylinders in trucks and sports cars that are driven hard, last significantly less time than a v8 or v6, and + a lot of gear heads just don’t want a 4 cylinder, they want a big ole honkin v8, that’s me, and i’m also a HUGE environmentalist, but there MANYYY are other things i’m willing to sacrifice first, i want my v8s forever, being 19 years old, i just got into cars just over a year ago, i own a 1993 c4 corvette, with a v8 of course, and i get sick when i see a truck with a 4 cylinder in it lol, outside of personal opinion and shit, they do not last as long, especially when the truck is actually doing truck things
LaconicGirth@reddit
You’re 19, how many 4 cylinders could you possibly have blown to confidently say they don’t last as long lol?
qlexx666@reddit
while interning at a mechanics shop the last few months, and researching hella about cars the last year+, everyone says they don’t last nearly as long, and my mechanic that i’m interning with, having 25 years of experience working on cars, says that, so yeah, maybe don’t take out the anger on me, that u have from buying a 4 cylinder truck lol, my bad ur motor blew and ur trying to pretend it didnt happen bro 😭😭
LaconicGirth@reddit
Yeah I’m not angry, I don’t drive a truck. I drive a flat 6 sports car.
I think you’re falling for survivorship bias. 4 banger trucks are new, so of course when they break they have lower mileage. Plenty of V8 motors also broke when they were new too though. Give it 10-15 more years and you’ll see plenty of 4 banger trucks with 200k+
The 90’s Ford Ranger had a 4 cylinder and that thing often lasted past 300k
qlexx666@reddit
yeah ur right, but regardless i’ve heard all around that these are less reliable than bigger motors, they aren’t meant to tow, haul, etc, do real truck things when pushed, and what flat 6 sports car u drive? a porsche? an old subie coupe? what, else even has a flat 6 outside of the certain subie vans, i’m asking because i love cars and i’m curious lol
LaconicGirth@reddit
987 Porsche Boxster S. Has a 3.2 flat 6. It’s super fun if you ever get the chance, run it. It’s a Mazda Miata that’s luxury and fast. Engine is mostly bullet proof too, the first year or two still had IMS bearing issues but they were rare
qlexx666@reddit
well that sick af, and my late grandfather had a 1999 porsche 996 awd with the 3.4L, it genuinely drives like a dream, it genuinely drives more stable at 101mph than it does at 30mph haha
PleaseDontYeII@reddit
Turbo'd engines aren't going to last anywhere near as long as a naturally aspirated one.
Your comment is moot
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Proof? Modern turbo engines and turbo engines from the 80s are completely different
PleaseDontYeII@reddit
Proof is just logic. But you can look it up. Any turbo modern or otherwise is going to cause more engine wear vs naturally aspirated
For instance the V8 5.7 from Toyota vs its new v6 turbo. On paper the v6 makes more power sure but it's not going live 400k+ miles like the naturally aspirated v8
LaconicGirth@reddit
What percent of people drive a vehicle past 400k anyways?
PleaseDontYeII@reddit
Not sure how that has anything to do with it. It's about longevity and life expectancy. Same reason to buy a honda or a toyota vs a hyndai or a kia. Most people want their $30,000 cars to last them (hopefully) a lifetime. Unless you're one of those irresponsible people who buy a new car every few years then trade it in
LaconicGirth@reddit
Most people don’t drive their new vehicles for a lifetime. Actually almost nobody does that. The average length of ownership for a new car is about 8 years. Probably roughly 100k miles back when people didn’t work from home, average is likely less now.
The motor in basically every recent car is going to average in the neighborhood of 150k-200k or beyond nowadays. Cars used to be lauded for going over 100k.
Hyundai had a bigger market share than Honda in 2024. And it wasn’t far off Toyota. You’re not paying attention to what the average consumer wants
AAA-VR6@reddit
Your last sentence is exactly why we all need a V8 though. Nothing else makes me feel as good as that.
Shadrixian@reddit
Yeah but a v8 just looks sexier. Dont lie, you know its true
Lower_Kick268@reddit
A full gas gage is pretty sexy too
Shadrixian@reddit
I havent really noticed any difference between the v6 I drive for work and the v8 I drive for leisure. Both burn the same.
V6 is better acceleration, but my v8 can pull things
Lower_Kick268@reddit
We arent talking about V6 here we are talking about i4 engines. The 2.7 is pretty good on gas compared to the V8 and for most people will work exactly the same
Pafolo@reddit
You know you can put a turbo on a v8 and now make even more power then a v6 or 4 banger…
r3dk0w@reddit
It's also cheaper to manufacture a smaller engine with less moving parts, which is likely really the only concern of the bean counters that decided the features of a vehicle.
ChuckoRuckus@reddit
Should be pointed out that your port injected V8 switched to a more powerful direct injection version 2 years later.
Historical-Stress328@reddit
Same power reliability is a bit of a stretch.
DontEatTheMagicBeans@reddit
My 1980 Camaro Z28 has a 5.7L V8 that makes a whopping 190hp. My daily is a Toyota Camry beater that blows the doors off the Camaro in a race lol.
nattyd@reddit
As much as I like vroom vroom, we are also in a mass extinction.
USAFmuzzlephucker@reddit
Emissions.
In order to build the V8s and V6s, they need to build (and more importantly sell) thousands more turbo 4 bangers to offset their GHG scores/ emissions. BUT people don't like turbo 4 bangers, they mostly only want the V6 and V8s, thus the manufacturer isn't selling the mix they need to to meet govt compliance of GHG emissions. As the years go on, the standards get more strict, they have to sell more and more fuel efficient vehicles to offset the less efficient ones and that becomes harder and harder to do (and more expensive).
Jumpy_Childhood7548@reddit
Mpg.
RandomThrowaway18383@reddit
I just want a hybrid v8 or v6 for city commute
hashishiyah@reddit
Emissions, thats the only reason
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Emissions plus lack of need.
When you can get V8 hp and torque out of an inline 4 with a turbo, what's the point of the extra weight and worse fuel economy?
XOM_CVX@reddit
Have you driven one?
_ninjanate@reddit
😁 exactly.
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
I've owned / driven multiple V8 powered cars. They're fun, but it's good to have alternatives.
senseofphysics@reddit
My father and grandfather have been fixing cars since the 40’s. Turboed i4s have been around for a while and have proven to be reliable, but as of now they have yet to be more reliable than engines with more cylinders. V6s and V8s are inherently under-stressed, and ergo last longer, which also ironically means a greener earth. That, and cars with more cylinders tend to be more fun to drive.
CptnAhab1@reddit
Do you have any research from a journal that actually backs this up or are you just experiencing bias?
My experience is that v8 vehicles seem to have load of engine issues because of powerheads, where v4 fills most peoples needs and v6 seem to be the sweet spot.
Louie_G_Lon@reddit
senseofphysics@reddit
I’m talking from the professional mechanic experience of my father and grandfather. What about you?
Own-Review-2295@reddit
This is something that has always puzzled me when it comes to our focus as a society on emissions. What good is saving emissions when x amount of cars are being over produced and oversold at current rates? Why not slow down production and focus on regulating costs? 'something something slim profit margins'; plenty of manufacturers roll in billions in profits, they can handle losing a couple percent. It's just more 'the consumer shoulders the responsibility of the damage the manufacturers create.' it's like how big oil has gaslit all of us into feeling responsible for our pollution when 100 companies are responsible for 71% of all emissions. Idk.
Making cars less fun because emissions just feels like a weak argument and a shitty way of looking at things
dmeech999@reddit
Bro, in US cars emit 1+ GIGATON of C02/yr. You increase the avg mpg of cars by 20-30% by going with turbos/less cyl, that’s 0.3 Gigatons of C02 improvement. 15M new vehicles sold in US/yr with average weight of 1.8 tons, that’s 0.027 gigatons - if the new cars were made of Pure CO2, it still would be 10 times more efficient to reduce emissions.
Own-Review-2295@reddit
Yeah, for sure, not arguing with anything you said.
The point I was making is that cars are made not to last anymore, causing replacement to happen more regularly. More cars are being sold and produced now than ever before. Also, there's something like 3 functioning cars for every single person on the planet or something absurd like that.
The carbon footprint of car manufacturing, especially with lithium battery EV's is massive (16 tons of emissions per tesla 3 battery) and the whole point is that overproduction/overmanufacturing rather than optimizing for maximum lifespan/affordability is self-defeating and puts the onus on consumers to rectify the mistakes/carelessness/greed of manufacturers. This really wasn't an issue until the last 5 or so years where cars have really, really declined in longevity due to the overuse of computers/electrical components. Cars are becoming harder/dramatically more expensive to repair and when they do fail, the failures are a lot more likely to result in a non-functioning vehicle.
Either way, I'm bitching about capitalism/profit motive and how those two things reorient the responsibility of pollution onto consumers' shoulders rather than manufacturers. I am not saying that optimizing for emissions doesn't do anything or isn't impactful and isn't a good thing for the environment.
It fucking sucks that we're killing fun cars because manufacturers won't stop overproducing or focusing on how to make production less environmentally destructive on their end. 71% of all emissions are caused by 100 companies. You know? Meanwhile, fun cars are being phased out while environmental protections/regulations are being stripped away and manufacturers get to do whatever they want
Vidson05@reddit
So they can sell you a new one when the overstressed engine running on oil with the viscosity of water at temp gives up after 5-10 years.
Plus manufactures get kickbacks simply for selling a more efficient car. They make money on repairs people actually do after the warranty is up, the repairs now take shit tons of hours because of how complex everything is, and they can charge however much they want for parts.
From the manufacturers perspective, it benefits them the most to make a vehicle that allows them to get the most money out of the government, sell it to the consumer as a luxury vehicle, and then when shit starts crapping out either make shit tons of money on repairs or sell them a new one.
Own-Review-2295@reddit
ah yea, sweet innovation under profit-driven capitalism 🥰🥰
Kdoesntcare@reddit
What?
The 4 cylinder 1.8t, an engine which released in '96, in my Audi A4 will easily see over 300k miles. Easy to get power out of too. There are guys who are putting down 600 all wheel horsepower with built 1.8ts in cars that they daily drive.
When I had my 1.8t GTI I had a lot of fun when I was at a red light next to a new mustang or other reboot muscle car because the drivers had a tendency to take my exhaust as a challenge and launch when the light turned green, only to be confused when they couldn't keep up.
A built Audi 5 cylinder engine can get Veyron fast.
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
OK boomer.
specialcommenter@reddit
The 2.0T in our 2016 F10 5 series is perfectly tuned to the car with the ZF 8 speed combo. It’s fast, torqey and satisfying. I’ve driven high horsepower 6 and 8 cylinder BMWs. Unless it’s an M5, I’m not missing much. I had a manual transmission 535i.
KnifeEdge@reddit
Tell that to Mercedes customers who didn't buy the new c63
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Well, it's not like Mercedes has a record of good reliability, so you can't blame them for wanting an engine that's been around a while.
camelRider64@reddit
Has nothing to do with reliability and EVERYTHING to do with the Mercedes v8 being taken out of a C63
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Maybe, but there's a world of buyers that like 4cyl turbos that won't buy Mercedes, and reliability is a big part of that.
kratos61@reddit
More like people spending that kind of money for a car don't want a 4 cylinder. As long as it's not catastrophically unreliable from the factory, reliability isn't the top concern for cars like that. 1st owner won't have it long enough to care about long term reliability.
KnifeEdge@reddit
There's a big difference between drivetrain reliability and whether all the fancy electronic gizmos give out after 15 years and 4 different owners
side__swipe@reddit
Completely missed the point
senseofphysics@reddit
Sorry dude, I’m pretty sure the outcry was because of the lack of V8, not because it wasn’t tried and tested
MetalMilitiaDTOM@reddit
Because it sounds like shit.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
No auto enthusuast will get a 4 banger with a turbo over a v8 if given the option. They're not the same at all. Maybe they look good on paper but not in reality.
Oak510land@reddit
Turbos are fun and easy to tune for cheap horsepower. Smaller engines rev faster and are more responsive.
There's plenty of people that like them.
Rapom613@reddit
And unfortunately most modern turbo 4S have about as much charisma as a blender.
dodgepunchheavy@reddit
There are cool 4 cyl turbos but theyre just the economy engine most times since everything that used to have a stout v8 now has a small 4 or 6 cyl turbo
Rapom613@reddit
I can’t think of one released in the past 10 or 15 years that was close to inspiring to operate. Most sound awful, run out of puff up top, and have abysmal response. It’s not a turbo engine problem, the 911 Carrera 3.0t suffers none of those issues, it’s a design and tuning problem
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
That's simply not true. Most auto enthusiasts that actually drive prefer to have as much power as possible with as little weight as possible, and for a daily driver if that means better gas mileage and lower insurance costs, it's a win-win.
V8s definitely win the internet dick-swinging contests though.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Nobody chooses a 4 banger over a v8 to save weight, weight savings are taken elsewhere. Also I have never met anyone that thinks about fuel mileage or especially lower insurance costs when it comes to choosing a car, you get what you want. V8s also win the dick swinging contest irl.
nobikflop@reddit
Tell that to the Miata people over at Mazda. In general, I think drivers who use mostly stock cars are trending toward smaller, lighter, etc. Big block enthusiasts will always exist, but they aren’t powering the “off the lot” buyer like they used to
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Miatas don't come with a v8 option. That's a smaller lighter car in general. If you went to buy a camaro or mustang you wouldn't opt for the 4 banger because it's lighter, thats just not a thing. I love small light cars, but that's not the point here.
dogswontsniff@reddit
Maybe the men you're trying to impress enjoy your engine dick swinging contest, but there is wayyy more fun car configurations out there that don't have a heavy v8 taking up a bunch of weight in the front.
It's like getting a dodge demon and thinking your ability to merge the fastest in a straight line is impressive.
Gimme a subie sti newer than 2012 and the demon will see tail lights on all the fun roads around here.
Also, I have yet to encounter a mustang or camaro driver who didn't ride your ass in the straights (when I don't need a speeding ticket) but fall comically far back in the turns to anybody with some cajones.
The people who buy mustangs and camaros mash the gas, but can never actually drive the things. So even though the top of the line camaro set some records, being associated with all the dweebs who buy them and can't drive them is a hard no for me dawg
Quidegosumhic@reddit
I'm only trying to impress myself bro xD i had a MKIV supra for the boys haha and I never said light weight wasn't fun. I said given the option. I loved my light cars and wish my car was a little lighter. And don't call me names bro, you're gunna make me sell my car xD
caverunner17@reddit
Hi, I specifically chose Ford's 2.7T over the 5.0 in my truck because it got better gas mileage, performs better here at altitude and has more low-end torque. I don't give a shit about the sound or dick swinging.
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Lol.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Ohhh you're from California, this makes sense now haha
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Yeah, because there's no car culture here, not like literally all of it or anything.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
It explains why you're so concerned about fuel economy and insurance prices. Which is bizarre, but different places different priorities.
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
When you can get a 4 banger with 300+hp, what the point of getting worse mileage in a v8 as a daily driver? I understand a V8 as a weekend car, but for a daily driver there's no point in wasting several hundred bucks extra each month when your 4 cylinder goes 140mph+ as it is.
I mean, if it's worth it to sit in traffic in a V8, have at it, but I'd rather put that extra $ in investments.
Rapom613@reddit
Because it sounds like trash? Because the power delivery is piss poor? Because real world fuel economy numbers, in my experience, aren’t terribly different? I replaced a 2008 civic si with a 2015 Audi S8 and the Audi is actually better on fuel when driven the same route by the same driver. The Audi also has over 3x the power, and it is buttery smooth.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Hmm have you driven a v8 sports or muscle car as a daily? I have driven all of them, the point is that the experience is better all around. I love cars, and I love driving my car anywhere I can. If I could get my hands on a v10 m5 I would, why? Because who wouldn't want to have a v10 sedan? That'd be sweet. In 100 years I won't be here, my car probably won't, and I'm not taking my money with me. Might as well enjoy the fine machines that engineers have made rather than worry about insurance and fuel economy. I've never met a person that doesn't love a cammed v8. Enjoy life, you might not have tomorrow. And I have been spanked by a tesla at the drag strip, but I also spanked a couple too xD but the acceleration party trick gets boring real fast, they have no soul, so they might be faster but they are glorified rc cars 🥱 I've driven em all, I'll never go back from "muh v8"
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Yes, I had a V8 as a daily and it got old fast. It wasn't as fun ad I hoped and the noise and gas guzzling were annoying. A V8 is like that loud friend who can't shut up. It's fun to hang with them once in a while, but you don't want to be around them daily.
My current 4 cylinder is faster, has more power and is quieter and more fuel efficient than that V8 was.
It's just a better choice as a daily imho.
The V10 m5s and m6s were garbage, that's why you can buy them so cheaply.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
What kind of car was it? 90's mustang? I've never heard of someone complain about the sound of a v8... v8s have way more potential in the long run for big power, and thats my goal. My MKIV supra was the next closest thing, but cost a lot more to get to the power levels my current car can.
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
I think we've made our points. Different strokes for different folks.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
100% but I'm curious what car you had with a v8 that you didn't like the sound lol
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Like I said, it sounded great in small doses, but as a daily it was like the loud guy you like seeing at parties but wouldn't want to live with.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
What kinda car bro
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
I get it now. You're the loud guy that doesn't know when to STFU, which explains the car choice.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Ok, i get it, you never had a v8 powered car. Gee, no need to be hostile just because you lied.
Anal_Sandblaster@reddit
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. You’re right. 4 cylinder turbo or v8 mustang hmmm. Real tough choice that one. I don’t care how much cheaper the ecoboost is, getting a v8 was the right choice.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Typical car culture, everyone just parrots and follows. Most don't have real experience. This guy said his v8 was too noisy, and a fuel guzzler. But when I asked him what v8 he had that didn't sound good he just kept insulting me. Bro was lying to prove his point.
Anal_Sandblaster@reddit
Those "explanations" don't make sense either. Personally I think it stems from an inability to get into something more expensive because let's face it, the majority of "car people" nowadays don't have a lot in terms of funds, leading also to lack of hands on experience with the different engine options and trims. I won't knock ecoboost mustangs, but I'd also be lying if I said they're more fun than the v8 version.
I also think they're missing the point you're trying to make which is about when certain models have different engine options. It's not an argument of Miata vs Challenger. It's the 4 cylinder 3 series BMW vs the inline 6 turbo model. Everyone would take the inline 6 turbo over the 4 cylinder if able.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Thank you for understanding, this is exactly what I was getting at.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
Yet we exist.
samcuu@reddit
How much of the market do you think is auto enthusiasts? Maybe 2%, most of whom don't even uy new cars so their preference is utterly irrelevant anyway.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Not entirely. There are plenty of sports and muscle cars still being sold.
Dudeasaurus2112@reddit
And most of those drivers couldn’t tell the difference between 300hp and 400. And most of them also have no business driving a car with 200+ hp
Lower_Put4270@reddit
I’m an “auto enthusiast” and have owned one V8 in my lifetime. I’ve owned n/a, turbo & hybrid inline 4s, n/a boxer 4, TT, N/A & hybrid V6s. And one V8. I’d never choose a V8 over any of those other configurations.
mr_bots@reddit
I’ve had a few V8s and now two TTV6s. I’ll take the TTV6s any day. That low end torque just eats up the highway and climbs hills with no drama. Barely breaks 2,000RPM.
NoF113@reddit
You have successfully pissed off the entire rally car enthusiast community.
bemenaker@reddit
And what percentage of the market are auto enthusiast? Negligible
mrdungbeetle@reddit
Holding aside the "no true scotsman" fallacy in your argument: The Miata is the world's best selling 2-seater sports car, raved about by pretty much every car reviewer. (Car & Driver gives it a 10/10 for example.) And it has a 4-banger. People like it because you can really wring it out on the roads without breaking the law.
Spirit_of_a_Ghost@reddit
Are you aware of the Japanese car market?
doc_55lk@reddit
Auto enthusiasts are a minority of a minority of the car buying population.
Amagol@reddit
Smoothness of power deliver still remains which is why rolls Royce makes their cars with w12 engines They actually planed to have a v16 orignally but it was too much power (they thought that)
NoF113@reddit
RR is basically going all EV because they’re better at that anyway.
Powerful_Relative_93@reddit
Have a Spectre on delivery, I’ll tell you Rolls going electric because HP, acceleration, and top speed don’t matter. What matters is noise insulation, ride quality, comfort, and craftsmanship.
NoF113@reddit
First, jealous. Second, EV always made so much sense for them. They made the smoothest quietest possible V12 because they didn’t have anything smoother or quieter until now, and now they do.
Powerful_Relative_93@reddit
I grew up with Rolls Royce’s, my dad had 2 Phantoms (his & hers) and a Ghost. The v12 was just there to generate the torque to haul a really heavy car.
JCDU@reddit
The average Rolls Royce owner doesn't care too much about added weight, worse MPG, or repair bills though.
You can go make a pickup truck with a V12 or V16 and see how many you can sell at a profit alongside the 4 or 6 cylinder ones that get the job done good enough for most people.
WCland@reddit
I drove a RR Phantom a few years ago. They have a gauge that shows how much of the engine power is being used instead of a tach. That gauge didn't get above 10 percent in normal driving, and I don't think I saw it go above 30 percent even when running up to freeway speeds.
Albert14Pounds@reddit
My Ford Maverick hybrid has the same power dial instead of tach since it has an eCVT. With the hybrid drivetrain and eCVT it kinda makes sense but I think on a "normal" drivetrain I think I'd still prefer a tach. Not like I'll ever drive a RR though.
johncuyle@reddit
Also worth noting that there isn’t necessarily extra weight. The GM v8s are famous for putting out a disproportionately large amount of power for their weight and dimensions.
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Mr. Bean got one.
Amagol@reddit
Yea but no one else is allowed to have one.
KuhlerTuep@reddit
Because they are stupid for almost all uses
topicalsyntax571@reddit
Only for the working peasants.
caculo@reddit
Not in Europe. Environment laws will end production of 100% of internal combustion engines in a few years.
filbruce@reddit
This was an argument that I read in the late 90s and early 00s. The V8 is dead bla bla bla. Today, almost every carmaker has a V8.
austic@reddit
Cost of emissions compliance sadly
Last_Computer9356@reddit
It is because of the Obama and Biden fuel/carbon restrictions.
rustledjimmies369@reddit
Petrol inefficience.
In another 10 or so years we will see what the F1 ripple will have on the consumer market with the synthetic fuel they're mandating for next years cars. maybe the v6 and v8 could come back?
good riddance though. they sound like shit
mega-man-0@reddit
I mean Ford refuses to let the Coyote go and GM is making a huge commitment to a new V8. Also, Ram is bringing back the Hemi, and with as bad as Toyotas V6 turbo has been in the Tundra and Sequoia - it wouldn’t surprise me if they brought back the 5.7.
So I don’t know what you’re talking about. For the first time in a decade I’d actually say the V8 is on its way back.
mrgreengenes04@reddit
The Hemi also fits in the current Grand Wagoneer and Grand Cherokee, so I'd venture to guess they will get it again in a few years.
Also been hearing rumors of a Charger prototype with the Hemi as well.
So yeah...the V8 isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
J0kutyypp1@reddit
I don't understand that. Hemi is the most stupid engine to ever exist. It sounds terrible and is completely unnessessary. The day Hemi went out of production was the best day in long time.
dustsmoke@reddit
Idk, a 5.7 hemi with mds gets pretty much the same gas mileage as Toyota's new hybrid Land cruiser. Could somebody explain why we want a super heavy, super complex drivetrain that will total out the vehicle when the battery goes bad? Are we trying to increase landfills? You all know all that plastic in cars these days doesn't really get recycled. Right?
mrgreengenes04@reddit
That's your opinion. Apparently it isn't the opinion of a lot of people, otherwise they wouldn't be continuing to produce it. The Hemi didn't go out of production, it just wasn't available in every model.
I can see your argument about a V8 in a family sedan, I disagree, but I understand it. A V6 is perfectly adequate, but a 4 cylinder is a little small for a car the size of the Charger. Even a turbo 4.
A V8 is the best and most logical engine for something like an Escalade/Suburban, or a pickup truck.
Skin_Floutist@reddit
4 cylinder engines literally make me sick. The power distribution is just awful and sounds like asthmatic squirrels when you accelerate.
fiftybucks@reddit
The V8 will join the club of V10, V12, etc. High end, Niche engines for high performance, limited or exclusive trims. Especially since they might be part of fancy hybrid drivetrains. Definitely not for mass accessible products
Linkedzz@reddit
Trx is coming back 2026 with its supercharged v8, GM dropped 800m$ investment developing their 6th gen v8 coming on 2027, v8 is not dying, but the high performance 4 & v6 are becoming a trend
Alextryingforgrate@reddit
GM is investing 900M$ in their V8 program. So there js still life in them. Stelantis or what ever is also bringing back the Hemi.
waldcha@reddit
laws on fuel economy. It is also why we are not getting new small eco cars as they are even more strict.
mr_bots@reddit
Damn government! We should still be driving death trap land yachts with big block V8s making 150hp and getting single digit fuel economy.
Apprehensive-Read989@reddit
Those government regulations on fuel economy are a major factor in why we have loads of giant SUVs and trucks and practically no small cars and trucks.
Objective_Run_7151@reddit
Absolutely correct. The automakers have cooked the CAFE formula to let them sell high profit SUVs over affordable cars.
The US needs to scrap CAFE standards and start over.
RAM_AIR_IV@reddit
The reason they made 150hp is because of the government regulations
mr_bots@reddit
The biggest drop in HP was just on paper due to the change from gross HP to net HP and not emissions requirements.
nattyd@reddit
Absolutely idiotic regulation.
broketoliving@reddit
because everywhere is not america
ArchiStanton@reddit
Source?
TheOGDrMischievous@reddit
This 👆
Wrong-Camp2463@reddit
I just bought a 2.7 Silverado. My buddy got a 5.3. He literally pulled out his junk in my driveway to prove why he needed the 5.3. Thing is, all he uses his for is a daily driver. My 2 week old 2.7 already looks like my 20 year old 5.3 from skidding logs, hauling dirt, etc.
As long as it meets my needs I don’t care if it has 1 or 20 cylinders. And my needs are heavily weighted to not GAF how it does the work, as long as it does it.
AbleCamel6977@reddit
have a 15 yr old car still worth 8 grand (was about 32 sticker) solely bc it was the last V6 engine made for that model.
fusannoshadowkick@reddit
It's all about emissions. More cylinders means more combustion gases released. The smaller the engine the fewer emissions. It's that simple. Everything is being regulated by the EPA and your elected officials to improve the air you are breathing. Also just cause it's no longer a V8 NA or V6 NA, it can still be efficient and fun to drive.
bap1331@reddit
Because climate change
mablep@reddit
Emissions regulations.
Fluffy-Cupcake9943@reddit
This is the only correct answer. There is still a market for muscle cars but politicians killed them.
mablep@reddit
Oh but we have EVs and theyre faster
I DONT CARE
The only EV in my life is a 2003 volkswagen winnebago rialta EuroVan
Flffdddy@reddit
EVs are fun for acceleration. But they have no soul. If I’m driving 25mph in my Mustang, it still sounds like heaven. I mean it still sounds like heaven i you just sit there idling in the driveway.
dfhghdhdghgh@reddit
Just because the lead chips taste good doesn't mean you should keep eating them
Fluffy-Cupcake9943@reddit
Frankly, if money were of no concern, I would own the fastest damn EV allowed on the road. But, I'm not rich. Instead, I bought a 2011 Chrysler 300c for $5k, spent another $5k rebuilding the engine, and boom, I have a 350HP rolling sofa.
I'm not getting into any kind of decent EV for $10k.
mablep@reddit
True true
Rattlingplates@reddit
It’s emissions bullshit. V8s last so much longer than these high compression turbod motors. Your 5.3 will do 500k miles with basic maintenance. These new motors will crumble.
noturmom77530@reddit
Because smaller engines are objectively better. A GM 2.7l turbo max makes about the same hp and more torque than the 5.3l v8, luckily GM I believe just invested a lot of money into their v8.
unidentifiedswimmer@reddit
Oh gosh the people that swear i4 will outlast a v8. Yeah you push 300k in one and let me know. 2010 tundra 5.7 with 308k miles. Just regular maintenance. No issues to date.
porter9884@reddit
The smaller engines with the turbos will never be as efficient and or last as long as the V-8’s. There is still a lot of development that can happen with the v-8.
brazucadomundo@reddit
There is a market for V8s. Ferrari still make them.
EmbarrassedPizza6272@reddit
less weight, less mass, better weight/power ratio, less internal friction. In the 80s 90s, Porsche had powerful 4 cyl inline engines.
this guy is legendary when it comes to turbo charged engines and he said that a turbo 4 inline engine is the best https://zynki.de/
only downside, not as sexy as a v8 for some folks
susanboylesvajazzle@reddit
Same reason you don't have cake every day. Cake is great, but every day isn't good for you.
We might still want a V8, but don't need V8 engines or even V6 engines when we can get what is needed (rather than desired) from an efficient 4-cylinder.
If we were all driving V8s, emissions would be astronomical. It isn't a lack of market, but a deliberate move away from it owing to emissions standards. They were mostly the reserve of performance cars, but the lack of a wider market means future development will be limited.
Lawineer@reddit
Because government regulations.
With that said, I just read GM is spending $800M on gen 6 v8 development.
data_analyst69@reddit
emissions/fuel economy as others have pointed out but modern boosted i6's like the EcoBoost and Hurricane engines put out more HP and Torque than their V8 counterparts. The new CEO of Dodge, who loves the hemi and may bring it back, recently did an interview where even he said the Hurricane far superior to the Hemi in every way except sound. https://www.motortrend.com/features/ram-ceo-tim-kuniskis-interview-hemi-v8
I've heard that under load a v8 will pull/haul with more fuel efficiency but a hurricane still pull/haul more and even work trucks aren't under load most of the time. Feel free to bitch about the grocery getting rams but they'll see even more savings at the pump.
For a stock sports car, 500hp+ dual turbo'd i6 isn't a joke either.
brokensharts@reddit
Its the EPA
55XL@reddit
Nobody NEEDS a V8.
Maybe someone desires a V8 but it is not like humanity is going to viped out when the V8 disappears.
Ok_Obligation2559@reddit
CAFE standards continuously getting more stringent
tastygluecakes@reddit
Because why?
If I’m a performance enthusiast, I know that a plug in hybrid or full EV would mop the floor with any V8.
It’s pretty much only something that boomers who think that represents “peak” car for a manly man are demanding.
TapDangerous1996@reddit
Turbo cars suck. Hate the lag when hitting accelerator
9BALL22@reddit
Because of CAFE standards.
BrandonStLouis@reddit
Where have you been for 10 years?
Roar_Intention@reddit
The car makers don't want them in small turbo cars. They want to sell cars, and that's what the market dictates them to build for maximum profitable sales.
It's not automakers telling us what to buy, its them trying to predict what the people want to buy.
No-Lawfulness-6569@reddit
This is it exactly. Auto manufacturers couldn't care less what people drive, all they care about is producing the cars people want to drive and selling as many as possible.
Ok-Anteater-384@reddit
Smaller lighter vehicles with better transmissions don't require V-8's
bubbasass@reddit
CAFE fines.
whydoidothis696969@reddit
Who cares what the cylinder count is at the end of the day, if this v6 is out performing that v8 go be me the v6.
mattinsatx@reddit
It is being driven by ridiculous emissions regulations from the government.
MaterialSnipe@reddit
4 cyl hybrid should be the standard. But also you gotta be an idiot not to see the buying pool for V6-V12 - should remain in the top 20% of cars
ArgumentAny4365@reddit
Boosted sixes are so powerful nowadays that V-8s aren't really necessary anymore.
I've got a turbocharged four-cylinder in my S90, and I average 27 MPG combined. In order to get an engine with the same torque curve that wasn't boosted, I'd need something like a 3.5L V6, and I'd never get that kind of fuel economy from that option.
hoopr50@reddit
Simplest answer is the government got to involved
LastEntertainment684@reddit
I know there was some discussion in here on longevity, so I did a little bit of research:
The EPA calls out a useful life of 10 years / 120,000 miles for a light duty passenger vehicle engines, regardless of format. They give manufacturers the option to certify their vehicles to 15 years / 150,000 miles for extra NOx credits.
Ford tests their light duty engines, like the Ecoboost, to 150,000 equivalent customer miles.
I imagine most other manufacturers meet or exceed the stricter standards to get the credits. So 150,000 miles is a good baseline for what manufacturers and the government expect out of a typical car, regardless of engine format.
Now as far as consumers, the average age vehicles are kept on the road right now is 12.6 years, which funny enough, averages out to a little less than 150,000 actual miles. Right in line with the useful life estimates.
So basically super high mileage engines aren’t the norm and the sweet spot for the government, manufacturers, and consumers is reaching 150,000 miles without excess pollution and abnormal maintenance/repair.
Ok-Pea3414@reddit
Emission penalties and regulations are only a part of the answer.
Also, turbo i4 and V6 with HO versions and turbo V6s are far more fuel efficient than NA V8s.
Throw in a small hybrid system with a turbo V6 and you can match a performance from naturally aspirated V8 pretty easy for everyday use, including towing. The only place for V8s today is muscle cars and large vehicles (full sized SUVs with 9000lb or more of towing or pickups like f250)
Emission regulations are only a part of the story. As soon as a single manufacturer comes out with a V6, others are compelled to offer a similar offering. Why? Because customers will see the highly advertised better fuel mileage. 3mpg better doesn't make a lot of difference in a hybrid Corolla, but 3mpg, going from 17mpg to 20mpg, is a 17.5% improvement in efficiency.
So, even if regulations weren't there, V6 and i4 were bound to happen. Regulations and penalties just accelerated it by maybe 5 years at the most.
Also, V6, and i4 - along with their turbos and hybrid systems are very significantly cheaper to manufacture, faster to manufacture, easier to outsource to suppliers and to obtain systems instead of parts.
AAA-VR6@reddit
Politics. Liberals. People's whose idea of fun is staring at birds and trees. All we can do is keep what we have alive. VW killed the VR6 in 2024, my favorite 6 cylinder. I'm just going to do my best to keep it alive, or die trying. Death > EV/hybrid
Amagol@reddit
8 10 and 12 cylinder engines were mostly used for their power smoothness and capability The problem is that 6 cylinder and 4 cylinder engines have gotten extremely good that they can make the same power as 8+ cylinder engines of the past without major issues Even naturally aspirated 4 and 6 cylinder engines are very capable of beating 8 cylinders
The last ford gt that came out had a super charged v6 which makes more power than most of fords v8 engines and v10 engines at the time.
Mobile-Aardvark-7926@reddit
Its crazy how much more power comes out of engines compared to past. I saw this post of the 1st generation firebird and the standard V8 was 5.7L and put out 265 HP.
My minivan has a v6 3.6L putting out 287 hp and I get 2.5x the fuel economy.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
The Ford GT had a turbocharged ecoboost V6 mostly just cause Ford wanted to make a halo car for their V6s, not cause it was the best engine layout they could have used.
okiedokieaccount@reddit
Guess you missed yesterday’s big news.
GM to invest $888 million (get it?) in new V8 manufacturing plant in New York
mr_bots@reddit
Also that Stellantis is restarting production of the ancient Hemi just because Dodge owners prefer noise over performance.
Educational_Set3836@reddit
You described Subaru owners not dodge, the dodge people just like the heritage of the car similar to the Mustang and Porsche fans. Plus a decent portion of the dodge base is truck drivers who’d prefer to be able to do their own maintenance on their vehicles so a v8 fits better into that market. EVs are for wage slaves, suburban kids and moms which isn’t the dodge base. Even the poor dodge fans tend to be too good for EVs lol
matthewjboothe@reddit
Dude the Chevy Bolt is one of the top 5 DUI cars. Also from a guy who had a challenger, EVs are way quicker if not faster on the top end.
Educational_Set3836@reddit
“Quicker, faster” get a Porsche then lol. There’s 2 kinds of dodge owners pal, 1. The ones who buy it to modify for their own liking and 2. The ones who just like the aura of dodge cars. Your logic is consist with the dodge employees who pushed the EVs out and are now having to cancel their plans and bring back the hemi because the real world doesn’t operate on what you think matters.
Smooth_Limit_1500@reddit
In the US market it is to comply with the EPA’s absurd fuel economy standards.
It’s also why we have auto start-stop. It saves very little and heat cycles engines and turbos in a very stressful way. They are desperately trying to get any extra increment of fuel economy.
The newer “Footprint” rules allow more fuel consumption if a vehicle covers more of the ground. This has widened and lengthened (and made heavier) vehicles like Wrangler and Tacoma. They use MORE fuel, but get bumped into a higher category.
Turbos under boost use more fuel than larger engines. An F150 that hauls a heavy load every day is more economical with a 5.0 than an Ecoboost - but the EPA doesn’t test that way.
Hot_Lava_Dry_Rips@reddit
And the vast majority of vehicles on the road arent used that way. Way more empty f150-f350s on the road than loaded ones. If v8s were limited to commercial and tow vehicles only, we woukdnt see nearly as many restrictions. But since we have several times as many soccer moms driving large v8s around than actual working trucks, they all take the hit.
Hot_Lava_Dry_Rips@reddit
Bevause theyre unnecessary for performance. My car is a 3l 6 cylinder and it make over 300hp. Why would I want a heavier, thirstier engine for the same performance.
honkeyKush@reddit
Can only recycle metal so many times.
stoner_bob_69@reddit
Cut weight, cut cost.
JamBandFan1996@reddit
Because 99% of people didn't need one to begin with and especially now that 4 and 6 setups can produce so much more power than they used to
FordF150ChicagoFan@reddit
GM just invested nearly a billion dollars on the next generation small block V8.
hitch-pro@reddit
Environmental protection agency
TenFourGB78@reddit
I don’t think the V8 is going anywhere in the near future. GM is opening a new plant to produce their next generation V8, so I think they see a future as well.
The big problem with small turbo engines in a truck is that the turbo is kept spooling constantly to keep the torque and horsepower in an acceptable range. While these small engines make good power, they do require more maintenance than a V8 of comparable power.
arsinoe716@reddit
There isn't much need for a V8 anymore. Unlike in the past where they can use a V8 in a truck, sedan, coupe, station wagons, sports car..... Now it is just a truck. When the first oil crisis hit way back in the 1970s, companies started to downsize. Cars got smaller. V8 engines got smaller. This trend continued into the 1980s and into today when fwd cars started to replace rwd cars. There was no space for a V8. GMs 2.8/3.1 and 3.8 V6 engines replaced the V8s up until the late 1990s. Then these engines were replaced with smaller engines that were more efficient and less polluting.
Jake-_-Weary@reddit
GM is still investing in V8s, so obviously they are still profitable to design and produce.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a64904689/gm-next-gen-v8-investment/
StJe1637@reddit
emissions/regulations
JonohG47@reddit
CAFE mileage requirements are about 50% higher today, than they were 15 years ago. There has been no quantum leap in that time to give that massive improvement. So it’s been a multitude of little things to get a percent here, a percent there. In case you were wondering why idle stop/start and electric power steering are now impossible to avoid. Similarly, a smaller displacement engine, with a turbo, operates with higher thermodynamic efficiency than a larger displacement, naturally aspirated engine of similar output.
Bi-mwm-47@reddit
CAFE mileage requirements are about 50% higher today, than they were 15 years ago. There has been no quantum leap in that time to give that massive improvement. So it’s been a multitude of little things to get a percent here, a percent there. In case you were wondering why idle stop/start and electric power steering are now impossible to avoid. Similarly, a smaller displacement engine, with a turbo, operates with higher thermodynamic efficiency than a larger displacement, naturally aspirated engine of similar output.
sandisc731@reddit
V8’s have thicker castings and more space to run oil and cooling passages. If you want something to last a long time, get a v8. I’ve yet to have a 4 or 6 cylinder last me more than 150k miles. But granted, those were Kia and Dodge engines. I just bought my first Toyota though and it’s naturally aspirated so I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I hope to keep this one for 20+ years.
Initial-Brilliant997@reddit
It's got nothing to do with customers and everything to do with regulations.
hunnybolsLecter@reddit
Granted the PEAK power in common applications may be the same or higher. But the way the power delivery gets to the wheels is entirely different.
I love the drag race between a 1975 450sel 6.9 and a late model S500 v6 3.5 turbo diesel benz.
The 450, with it's 3 speed auto and 100 ft lb and hp LESS than the v6 (on paper), not to mention 5 less gears still beat the new S class.
Granted, the 450 6.9 probably used 5 times more fuel for the drag.
But .... given the higher maintenance costs of these new high strung motors and generally shorter life span. I prefer the big old motors for their flatter torque curve. They're just nicer to drive.
So many car restoration shows and top gear episodes where they drive an old GT car and are astounded by the performance and driveability of the oldies.
They're just nicer, but petroholism is a thing.
dvs98@reddit
https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engines/final-rule-multi-pollutant-emissions-standards-model
Proper_Detective2529@reddit
Because of government over-regulation. Heavy taxing in the EU and ridiculous CAFE standards in the US.
ImJustLampin@reddit
EPA
kenojerr@reddit
Shift at GM. building new design v8 in New York Tonawanda plant.
mrgreengenes04@reddit
GM just announced they have the next generation V8 coming out in 2027, and Dodge/Jeep/Ram are adding the Hemi back to certain models. Haven't heard anything from Ford, but I don't think they want to be without the option in their trucks. It hasn't work out well for Ram.
nortonj3@reddit
emissions. that's the real answer.
I have a 12 cylinder Audi. they'll never make those kinds of engines again in 'regular vehicles.' very 😔
knightfire098@reddit
You can probably thank a lot of the green initiative legislation for the creeping regulations on the auto industry killing large engines. Your government doesn't believe you need more than 4 cylinder, or at least has been paid off by lobbyists to tell you that.
Level-Coast8642@reddit
{Chrysler executives ripping a line of coke} "We can fit a Hellcat in a mini van!"
Calm_Historian9729@reddit
Unless you are towing or hauling heavy loads most people do not need a V8 and its power. Now the next elephant in the room is a global push to decarbonize everything which leads to pushing EV technology and batteries. Combine the two with ever increasing CAFE standards for vehicles in general and you end up with a four banger turbo to scoot you around town and to work and back home.
nolongerbanned99@reddit
Cost reduction and fuel economy can climate regs. Also, 4 cyl with turbo or hybrid can be powerful
Mash_man710@reddit
Emissions control and regulations combined with demand.
RR50@reddit
My 3.5 Turbo V6 has 50% more power than my 5.4L V8 did, and gets 30% better gas mileage.
V8’s are largely going away for the same reason big block V8’s became small block V8’s for decades, technology has advanced and the displacement isn’t needed anymore to do the work that’s needed.
Grandemestizo@reddit
Turbocharged engines offer superior performance and efficiency and they’ve developed them to be very reliable. No sense using outdated technology.
Fluffy-Cupcake9943@reddit
You can turbo/supercharge a V8 all day long. Problem is, it creates too much horsepower for most driving conditions without a computer to save your ass.
ActualLaw4860@reddit
V8 charger 2026 we back baby
Trick-Ad-8298@reddit
Lots of people in the thread don’t seem to understand the difference in torque and horsepower and it shows.
Pafolo@reddit
Many manufactures are getting rid of them, bmw said they would keep the v8 because people want it.
Twogens@reddit
Emission regulations and EV nut jobs are why we have turbo 4s and 6s.
Thank every EV psychopath who actively supports the government intervening in the automotive industry.
billp97@reddit
because v8 and v6 engines in commuter cars is stupid. im a car guy and love big engines, but you dont need a 6 liter 8 cylinder in a malibu to get to work and the majority on the road dont care enough as long as it gets them from a to b it could be a 1.5 liter 2 or 3 cylinder for all they car. V8 engines are expensive to make and maintain as well. years ago americans shoved v8s in everything because bigger is better, now mainly only enthusiasts care because outside of the truck world big performance engines dont have a place in everyday traffic nor should they
BelowAverageWang@reddit
Americans shoved V8s into everything cause we couldn’t engineer anything smaller to be reliable
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Pff I daily my camaro with the 6.2, I love it. Could I use something more economical? Sure, but they don't put a smile on my face everytime I drive em like my car does :) plus it's great to be able to get around and past incompetent drivers that like to play road games.
JCDU@reddit
You have the luxury of being able to afford the MPG and the cost of the car though - the vast majority of the world are concerned with MPG and cost of ownership etc.
That's why the very boring Corolla is one of the best selling cars in the world year on year while outside the USA you're as likely to see a Rolls Royce as a Camaro.
f700es@reddit
AND the Camaro died...again.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
It ain't a mustang my man. It's a push rod v8 with a manual transmission. She takes a beating and doesn't skip a beat xD it's why I bought her.
f700es@reddit
My bro I know exactly what a Camaro is. Nothing in my statement was untrue.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Damn, so much hate xD I'll think of you if my camaro ever let's me down!
f700es@reddit
"hate"? By making a factual statement? You need to grow some thicker skin my dude. The last gen Camaro was a great platform, other than horrible driver visibility.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
You're not a very good troll my friend. Don't you got some crowds to kill or some polls to take out? ;)
dodgepunchheavy@reddit
Its because people need cars, enthusiast cars always sell worse than commuter cars thats not really a fair comparison. The boring corolla exists for those who just need transportation and they only took away the v8's because of the oil crisis and with modern day emmissions they cant keep up making v8's make more power while polluting less basically boxing out v8's. I gaurantee if the EPA wasnt so strict we would have more v8's, and the charger/challenger wouldnt be electric
billp97@reddit
Im not saying you cant, youre an enthusiast you enjoy your car. The majority of people want a car that gets them to work and back, kids to school and sport if they have them, and for the yearly vacation if theyre lucky. A 4 cylinder with or without a turbo meets all those criteria while being cheaper in every single way. The average person doesnt even know what V8 means. Objectively for the average person who doesnt care about cars a V8 is the worse option
Quidegosumhic@reddit
This is true.
Huge-Nerve7518@reddit
I'm more than sure you will continue to see big engines in work type trucks.
But for the most part people don't need them and legislation aimed at lowering emissions makes it harder for them to be viable.
Most car makers don't want to have 25 different engines for all the different markets around the world. They want a handful of options.
So as more countries push for greener cars the engines have to meet those standards. If very few customers are asking for a V8 it doesn't make sense to manufacture and support those.
I love the sound of a nice V8 but if you look around while driving the vast majority of people are driving inline 4s and V6 cars. That's because for the vast majority of people those are plenty.
icecreampoop@reddit
Emissions and efficiency and cost
Basic-Cricket6785@reddit
Because the government decides what you can buy.
I don't want electric/6cyl/4cyl.
No, I'm not a dinosaur, those engines try to do more with less, and lifetime maintenance costs are higher as a result.
Public-Marketing1118@reddit
Just V8? Won’t EVs end all ICEs?
professorfunkenpunk@reddit
My first car was a 75 lesabre. I don't know if it had the 2 barrel or 4 barrel carb, but it either made 210 or 250 horsepower and got under 10MPG. You can get way better performance on all fronts out of a modern 4 or 6. There are some scenarios where a V8 makes sense, but for most of us, there's just no reason for them anymore
SnooChipmunks2079@reddit
Governments are requiring better and better fuel economy and that's how you get there.
Modern engines are also vastly more efficient. The 2.0T in the 2008 VW I just got rid of had vastly more torque and horsepower than the 1980's Cadillac 4.1L V8 I had for a while - and the current models even more.
Yes, the 4.1L was known as a horrible engine but in terms of performance and reliability, but it still applies. They're getting more hp and torque out of a little turbo 4 than they did out of a big engine years ago.
Similar_Lie1882@reddit
Fuel economy and emission requirements from countries across the globe are killing engines. Auto manufacturers would not be investing billions of dollars into R&D for EV and hybrid tech out of the good of their hearts. If they can’t meet the standards, the cars aren’t allowed on the market. Also one of the reasons why vehicles (especially pickup trucks) are getting bigger and heavier.
mrmarco444@reddit
Welcome to Europe dudes 😉
Oberon_17@reddit
Market for 8 cyl where exactly? Where is this market?
Striking-Drawers@reddit
It's about mpg, end of.
They can get better epa ratings at idle and at speed with a smaller engine and a turbo.
GuiltyDetective133@reddit
What do you mean why? Money and regulations.
Cruezin@reddit
I think a lot of you are missing something.
Preference.
Me, I prefer the gutteral growl a V8 makes. I have a Chevy SS. It's a 4 door, a sedan that gets confused with a Malibu and/or Impala (I've heard it called an Impalabu, lol), with an LS3. So it isn't exactly a car people would associate with the whole Hellcat or CTS-V vibe unless they knew what it was.
Sure, you could make 415hp with a 4cyl turbo - the 2 liter M139 engine in a CLA45, for example, makes about the same. I've driven one and the performance is definitely there. But it just doesn't sound the same, it doesn't tickle that itch I have while driving (and when I looked at it that CLA cost at least twice as much!).
Maybe it's because I grew up when muscle cars were still obtainable by a high school kid working at the local fast food joint. A 20 year old car in the 80s- a lot of these cars were just another used car, they hadn't reached the sky-high collector price tags yet, and in fact suffered from poor gas mileage with the bigger motors, leading to prices that were in some cases actually lower after the gas crisis. The parking lot at my high school was full of late 60's muscle cars. There is a certain nostalgia factor to it, for sure, and maybe that is lost to newer generations of drivers who prefer other things. It's also the likely reason why those same cars now fetch sometimes exorbitant price tags.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
I wish Chevy had marketed the SS more. Such a cool car that died cause very few people actually knew about it.
Quidegosumhic@reddit
Just mandates, it doesn't represent what people want. I think they will have to be illegal before they stop making them. People love em, and rightfully so. I've had na 4 banger, na inline 6, na v6, turbo 4 banger, turbo inline 6, and now a v8. The v8 is better all around, I'll never go back. Plus on the highway since it makes so much torque and sits at 1500rpm it sips fuel and I get 9l/ 100km out of a 6.2 that make 440whp.
dodgepunchheavy@reddit
The people here saying v8's are just "worse" blow my mind because you do not need to be a car enthusiast to enjoy driving a v8 over the alternative and the downsides are mostly just gas consumption, many people still want to avoid turbo cars. It is 100% mandates, if emmissions wasnt so strict, we would see more v8's for sure
Quidegosumhic@reddit
This thread is full of children with no experience. That's the unfortunate part of car culture. Everyone wants to think they know everything, but 90% of these people couldn't even do a proper burnout.
dodgepunchheavy@reddit
No idea why people are downvoting when its pretty well figured out we arent making massive v8's is emmissions lol
ultrabs@reddit
Forcing buyers into AFM and /or turbo vehicles is a disaster. V8 and ICE 6 cyl are far more reliable I'm someone who enjoys a new car. But guess what? Not these days! My most recent car is Lexus GS 3.5 . Has a lot of miles but I'm confident its a far more trouble free design. Maybe someday the car companies will perfect those new technologies,but it ain't now....
KnifeEdge@reddit
It's not that there is no market
There's no economically sensible market BECAUSE of the added cost of regulatory hurdles associated with v8 engines.
It's like this
V8s, V12s have always been a bit of a niche offering. 6s are for the mid range and 4s for everyone that works for a living.
With turbos 4s can make the power of 8s.
Regulations make big NA engines hard to pass tests. Theyre just less efficient.
So you can just throw more boost at a 4 or 6 and replace an 8 which pretty much always sold in small numbers anyways. You can probably make an 8 but who would pay 20% more when the 4 running 2.5 bar of boost outperforms the 8? So you you're the 8 out the window
That is the rationale that most manufacturers used. For the SUV and truck applications it doesn't seem to have mattered much. For the luxury car storage though it seemed to have blown up in Mercedes' face. The C63 going to a 4 banger really really really outperformed on the sales front.
crunch816@reddit
The drift scene will keep V8s alive.
Powerful_Relative_93@reddit
I mean the Urus is a V8. So are McLaren’s, Lamborghini’s Temerario, all Koenigseggs, Ferrari’s 488, F8, and SF90. A step down would be M5’s, AMG GT’s, RS7, S63 AMG which all have v8’s.
I don’t see V6’s going anywhere either, the AMG One is a v6 so is Ferrari’s F80 and the Ford GT mk2. if you follow F1; every car used now is a v6. Although hybridized.
As far as I4’s go, the most powerful engine in F1 ever made wasn’t a v8, v10, or v12. It was BMW’s M12/23/1 which was an I4 that made 1400-1680 bhp.
Impressive_East_4187@reddit
How many miles did that I-4 engine last though? If I remember correctly those were years with no spending caps in F1 and no power unit limits like in modern F1.
Sure you can probably put out a 200 bhp 2cyl engine in a Rav4, but it will last 500 miles and have to be revved up to 17k rpm to hit that hp figure.
Powerful_Relative_93@reddit
You’re definitely right! Engine blow ups were extremely common at that time (regardless of cylinder count), but this one was a couple races then blam; millions of dollars sunk into engine development goes up in flames.
I’d rather take a v engine myself, as it’s made to reliably operate consistently at whatever power the manufacturer decides. There are a couple i4s that stand out such as the a45 AMG and the X2 M35i.
revocer@reddit
Emissions and MPG regulations.
crypticcamelion@reddit
I'm guessing you are American, European petrol prices are approaching 2 euro per liter, and at the same time a 1.4l MODERN engine can do 200+ km/h and 0 - 100 in less than 10sec max speed limits is typically 110 to 140 where and why would we need a V6 or V8?
Old_Cabinet_8890@reddit
Because they don’t sell. People want 4 wheels and a fuel efficient engine to get them to work, school, and around town. They don’t need 300+HP to drive around the city and if they want it turbo, electric, and hybrid electric engines can handle that desire.
DBDude@reddit
It's funny how expectations have risen. The F-150 with the smallest engine today has over 50% more horsepower and torque than a top-end F-series 1-ton truck from the early 60s. Even an average econocar today has more power now than the base F-series truck then.
But as others have said, most people don't need them. I have a friend who recently bought a smaller truck, and she has no plans to do anything more than its four cylinder can handle. I do need the bigger engine because I haul heavy stuff on the bed and on a trailer.
Aggressive-Cow5399@reddit
If you could make the same, or more, power more efficiently and from a smaller package… would you not do that too?
I don’t really enjoy the sounds of a 4 cylinder, but I don’t a 6 cylinder sounds bad… some sound great.
SKYeXile2@reddit
One day I'll get a V8, but for now I6 turbo is just too tempting.
slightlyused@reddit
I just saw that GM is updating its Tonawanda V8 plant to modernize for V8 engines - that should answer your question.
nayls142@reddit
Fuel Economy regulations are making it functionally illegal to sell V8s, without outright banning them.
Those of a certain political persuasion are repulsed by your desire to own a private automobile in the first place, let alone a decadent V8.
Unusual_Entity@reddit
Turbocharged lower capacity engines can make the same power as the old V8 twice their size, and be a lot more efficient. Technology moves on.
zica-do-reddit@reddit
It's old tech, obsolete for most use cases. Having said that, I'd LOVE a reimagined Galaxie or Impala with a big V8 and AWD, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
largos7289@reddit
Where have you seen that? GM just announced that they are re-investing into the V8 engines. Dodge just killed their EV challenger. Look i'm not saying turbo 4 bangers aren't neat but they are not practical. I had a srt-4 turbo and yea it was a blast to drive but... you got to let that turbo cool, then there is lag before you get full boost and it just doesn't sound as cool. Plus ever have to replace a turbo??? it's like 800 on the cheap side and that's if you do it. Nope i'll take my V8 all day every day thank you. Horsepower on the fly, without any draw backs.
turdbugulars@reddit
The govt
Cannoli72@reddit
blame government, the regulations are killing manuals and biggger engines. not to mention making cars heavier and way more expensive
Think-Motor900@reddit
Because booooooost
wakeupabit@reddit
GM just announced billions for a new V8 assembly plant. They’ll be with us for years.
PhysicsAndFinance85@reddit
They don't have a choice. The EPA is what's killing off anything enjoyable.
It'll just create a larger aftermarket to keep older vehicles alive longer. When it comes to trucks, especially, a smaller displacement engine with a turbo is working much harder to do the same amount of work as a larger engine. The ecoboost is a great example. Unloaded, they get decent mileage. Put any kind of real weight behind them and their mileage is terrible. Durability goes out the window as well.
ThirdSunRising@reddit
Well yeah. Modern engines have become massively more powerful, so they don’t need to be that big. Having a V8 isn’t a need, it’s a desire. Some folks will still buy it but there isn’t a practical reason to have it anymore. If you’re doing heavy hauling you probably want a diesel, and if you’re not you don’t need a V8.
Maddad_666@reddit
I have a RAM 1500 with a Hemi. I get 16mpg combine over the five years I e had it. I love the V8. Do I need it, nope. Hurricane would do just fine.
Another_Slut_Dragon@reddit
Bring on the electric trucks. Or the electric truck with a steady state turbo 4 range extender. Engines last a real long time and are really really efficient when you design them to do one thing. Imagine of your engine was just a 80-100kW battery charger controlled by the computer. It ramps up and down gently, perfectly warming up and spooling down slow to cool the turbo.
You still have 600hp on tap from the battery. But you don't need a big 400-500hp v8. Peak fuel in to energy out is somewhere around 70% load at low rpm. Let the computer pick peak efficiency and shut down as soon as you have enough battery range to get where you are going. (And never start at all during your commute)
clawless92@reddit
Grocery getters don’t need a v8 and that’s what most v8 equipped vehicles are
Fractal_Ey3z@reddit
It works in the car makers/sellers favor for their lifespans to be shorter. Cars used to last too long for their liking, so they’ve decided to shorten their lifespan so consumers return more often.
dqrules11@reddit
V8s are coming back, GM just announed a brand new US factory for developing their next V8s. EV tax credit probably going away, Tesla popularity plummeting, annual fee for driving hybrids, means gas is coming back.
SmoothSlavperator@reddit
CAFE standards and planned obsolescence.
They're sacrificing durability for emissions and fuel.
The benefit for the manufacturer is that lifespan is now limited to about 100k/miles and eliminates the used vehicle market.
Expert-Economics8912@reddit
you could even leave out planned obsolescence and just talk about CAFE standards. I don't think people realize how much CAFE standard have distorted the auto market. The extremely stringent fuel efficiency targets for very small cars eliminated models like the Honda Fit, and Chevy exited the small ICE sedan market entirely. Now pretty much the only small car you can get is an electric (or possibly plug-in hybrid.)
In the mid-size range, automakers get a fuel economy relaxation for increasing track width and wheelbase, so no more station-wagon or crossovers built on a sedan chassis. But fleet fuel economy still drives every decision, which means turbos and hybrids, and publicity stunts like the F-150 Lightning.
SmoothSlavperator@reddit
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Potential-Anything54@reddit
GM just announced $1B for development of a new family of V8 engines. Focus is trucks/SUV.
WhiteBeltKilla@reddit
Thank you Ford 🙏
jckipps@reddit
The pickup and SUV gas v8 engines aren't going away. GM is still fully committed to their gen5 small-block platform, Ford introduced a lineup of smallish big-blocks a few years ago, and Ram is supposedly not giving up on the Hemi just yet.
Beyond that, the full-size pickup diesels are still sticking with v8 and i6 configurations.
jstar77@reddit
The power coming out of these smaller V6s with turbos is impressive. When paired with a truck it gives you the best of both worlds, very good daily driver mpg for a truck and plenty of power on demand when you need it for truck stuff. The only downside being a slightly more complex engine.
-CerN-@reddit
CO2 taxes, average fleet emission taxes etc.
IH8RdtApp@reddit
There is no replacement for displacement.
SetNo8186@reddit
Mandated .gov fuel efficiency standards. Most of it is punitive taxing.
Icy_Nose_2651@reddit
gee V8 or
dodgepunchheavy@reddit
Its basically emmissions if youre looking for a generalized answer and its the same reason theyre going electric. Its hard to pump out more power and somehow lower emmissions at the same time, every year, so they stopped.
Whack-a-Moole@reddit
What you want is basically irrelevant in the face of government regulations.
K9WorkingDog@reddit
Because they want Ford to continue to get all the sales as they refuse to drop the V8 mustang.
ContributionDry2252@reddit
Possibly because oversized engines aren't really needed in everyday life?
In Europe, we've seen a move from I4 to I3 engines. ;)
UsedState7381@reddit
Emissions.
Sad_Alternative_6153@reddit
Yes for a mix of commuting/city/highway, 4 cylinder turbocharged is better. However the moment you need to do long distance at high speed with a decently heavy vehicle, you’re still better off with 6 or even 8 for durability and even sometimes consumption. As for emissions, it is mostly true that small high boost engines are more efficient but only if you consider direct CO2 emissions, those engines tend to consume oil instead of emitting CO2, which might be even worse. TL;DR, it’s full of trade offs and there’s no definitive answer, it only depends on the use case.
Blu_yello_husky@reddit
People just want fuel economy, no one cares about hauling power anymore. I'll never own a 4 banger, as if I needed any more reasons never to buy a modern car. There's no replacement for displacement. People need to go back to understanding that and bring back the 454 in the Chevy trucks.
SuperbDog3325@reddit
My 1941 Ford pickup came with a flathead V8 engine that made 95 horse power.
My 1995 Ford Ranger came with a 2.3 liter 4 cylinder that made 112 horse power.
The 95 Ranger also came with a 4 speed overdrive transmission. The 1940 model came with a 3 speed, no overdrive.
Both trucks hauled about the same amount of stuff over the years. The 95 got way better fuel mileage.
Technology is replacing the V8 engine. It has been doing so for years. The popularity of the V8 engine is due to marketing and not need.
The towing capacity for an F150 with an inline 6 in the 90s was always the same as the towing capacity of the V8.
The 2025 F150 v6 eco-boost actually has a higher towing capacity than the v8 model.
Better designs and better technology. The V8 engine was always about making he engine bigger to create more horsepower, but we can do that without making the engine bigger now.
People like V8s because they think they are getting a performance upgrade, but this hasn't really been true for a very long time.
GhoastTypist@reddit
Fuel economy.
Most people are buying cars with smaller engines because gas isn't cheap anymore. V6 compared to a 4/3-cyc turbo, the day to day cost of gas is a lot cheaper with the smaller engine over the lifetime of the vehicle.
Rapom613@reddit
If people would just buy smaller cars they’d get their desired fuel economy rather easily. I’ve owned several 4th-6th gen civics that all managed 40+ mpg without any fancy anything, and where cockroach reliable. Weight is a huge factor
doc_55lk@reddit
There's this wonderful thing called ✨ emissions regulations ✨ which the government's and respective regulatory authorities are putting in place to try and slow down the end of the world at the hands of the pollution that cars cause.
Emissions regulations are why everybody started downsizing and moving to turbos in the early 2010s, and emissions regulations are why they're starting to move further away from bigger engines and start throwing in hybridization too.
Whether you agree with them or not is up to you.
Rapom613@reddit
It can be up to you, gotta vote for what you believe in
ct4funf@reddit
Because of stupid gov emissions regulations
Briggs281707@reddit
I really miss the 3800 V6 era of cars
SmallHeath555@reddit
because people who make laws about the climate don’t like big petrol engines and clearly have never tried to accelerate onto a major interstate where you need to gun it.
Bottom line - people who ride in limos have decided we can’t have nice things. They mistakenly believe cars alone are killing the polar bears vs the real issue around industrial pollution.
Historical-Stress328@reddit
Environmental regulations inflicted on them by federal state and local govts.
Titan_Astraeus@reddit
Making cars more efficient gets tax break and incentives for manufacturers. Smaller engines with less emissions ARE better for the environment, but there are some aspects of these changes that are worse for the consumer. In this case the turbo engines are less reliable, more expensive and complicated to maintain. Recommending thinner engine oils that cause more wear. Start/stop engines that cause more wear..
Ok-Alfalfa288@reddit
Regulations, people don't want them with a big tax bill and they're more expensive to make so.
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Cope harder.
KeeganY_SR-UVB76@reddit
Smaller engines are cheaper and, in modern times, have better power density.
Delicious-Sorbet5722@reddit
Government mandated emissions and MPG standards across their entire lineup of vehicles. Google Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards.
CarobAffectionate582@reddit
GM is spending a Billion dollars in new V8 tech. They now the EV bullshit is not going to penetrate the full market, and sane government now means illegal government mandates not voted on by congress are a thing of the past. (see Loper Bright USSC decision).
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a64904689/gm-next-gen-v8-investment/
Euro weenies have their non-elected, beaurocratic fate, but the US is not written in stone.