What car or brand do you wish you didn’t actually hate?

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Educational_Age_1333@reddit

Toyota. They get way too much credit online for making standard vehicles but their dealerships act like you aren't worth their time, mine had many minor issues that made me hate it, and everyone online rushes to defend them even in cases they deserve criticism. Ex. When the tundra engines got announced to be replaced every post about it was commending them for it because they were "doing the right thing". If it were any other builder it would be daily posts for a month skewering them.

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DangerDaveOG@reddit

Everyone online loves to praise JDM and shit on USDM. I’m a Ford guy and have 200K+ miles on multiple Ford vehicles with basic maintenance. Ford also has some really awesome enthusiast cars. Like the Fiesta/Focus ST, Focus RS, Mustangs, now the Bronco.

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kyonkun_denwa@reddit

I feel like Ford deserves a lot of their reputation. My mom had a Ford Taurus with the 3.8 Essex engine and the AXOD transmission. First the engine blew a head gasket on Christmas Eve and needed a rebuild with 98,000km. Then the transmission started to give out around 130,000km. This was with regular maintenance and we were far from the only ones experiencing these issues, both were EXTREMELY common issues on that car. My parents’ friends had a Ford Tempo that went through 3 transmissions. Again, all maintenance done on time. It was telling that these cars had basically disappeared from the roads by 2005. My friend’s grandparents had a Ford Escort with the SPI2000 engine, died at 125,000km when it dropped a valve seat. Again, maintenance done on time. Again, known design defect. More recently, Ford executives KNOWINGLY shipped a defective transmission in the Focus/Fiesta (PowerShift) after engineers told them they were having issues managing heat and that the transmission was not ready for market. And that’s not the only transmission they fucked up, they’ve also had lots of valve body problems with the 6F35. The Ford 3.5L V6 is basically a ticking time bomb as far as the water pump is concerned. I don’t disagree that Ford makes some cool cars and I think the 5.0 Mustang is amazing. But they have also made some REALLY shit cars, whereas Toyota and Honda don’t have nearly as bad of a track record. Like I can walk into a Toyota dealer at any time and be 95% sure the car I buy will mostly be fine. They DO have issues, but the company has a much better quality culture than the Big 3, let’s not even pretend this isn’t the case. Check my flair, I don’t even own a Toyota. But I can recognize why they’re popular and beloved by those who buy them.

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Automatic-End-8256@reddit

My father bought a 97 f150 and the motor blew with 60k miles and he babied it. They denied the replacement for some reason I was a kid and don't remember but fuck them Sometimes they make a decent car or truck but I'm not willing to gamble 50k on that

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DangerDaveOG@reddit

My Dad bought a ‘95 F-150 brand new. It is still on the road with 300K miles.

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Automatic-End-8256@reddit

Congrats, they made a good vehicle 30 years ago

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DangerDaveOG@reddit

I have a 2016 5.0 F-150 with 150K miles on it. With only oil changes and basic maintenance. So congrats on your bullshit opinion.

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Automatic-End-8256@reddit

150k miles on a modern motor isnt all that much and have you noticed all the recalls on newer ford trucks? Congrats on your bullshit opinion too

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DangerDaveOG@reddit

I runs great and will probably get amount 150K miles out of it.

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thedogthatmooed@reddit

Can confirm that the 3.5 ecoboost is a ticking time bomb as far as timing chains go. Been around two f150s, a personal 2013 and a work truck 2014, both with the ecoboost. The 2013 nearly killed itself but jumped one chain length instead and managed to limp home. Boss got that fixed, but 80k later it slipped, broke, and destroyed the engine. The work truck slipped its chain at 65k and grenaded that motor as well

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Educational_Age_1333@reddit

I think what we never talk about on this subreddit is that your opinions of brands are going to come down to your personal experience with them just as the person you're responding to said and just like you're talking about.

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trail-g62Bim@reddit

Yeah you can find amazing and awful experiences with every brand.

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kyonkun_denwa@reddit

I don’t really agree with that. I don’t own a Toyota product. I’ve never owned a PowerShit, a 6F/8F, a 1.6L EcoBoost, a 1.0L I3 “Fox” engine or a 3.5/3.7 Duratec, but I can see for myself that they all suck and have obvious design flaws. Like yeah, Toyota sometimes puts out a stinker (Tacoma V6) or a suboptimal engine (2AZ-FE). But Ford puts out a LOT of stinkers and also does the suboptimal thing as well (the 5.0 had oil burning issues for a few years too). I can also recognize, though, that the 2.7L V6 and the 5.0/6spd F150 are good products. But the problem with Ford is that you’re sort of playing Russian roulette with 3 bullets every time you walk into a dealer. Some of their stuff is great; some of it REALLY sucks. Do you know which one is going to fuck you when you walk into on the dealership floor?

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DjImagin@reddit

They shit on Ford because they have more recalls than any other brand. It’s such a gap in recall you almost wonder if Ford is doing it with intention.

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scroopydog@reddit

I don’t disagree with this take. I’ve always hated ford and almost got a Focus RS in ‘17 and I’d consider a Bronco now if I wasn’t house poor.

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zubiaur@reddit

I swear, our Toyota dealership sold us a Honda. What a ss and a waste of time. The Honda dealer was such a chill experience in contrast. Oh, want a car? neat. Neat to try this one?

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thedogthatmooed@reddit

Unless you want to drive a Type R 🙄 Same can be said of VW with the Golf R, Hyundai with the Elantra N, Toyota with the GR Corolla. These tarted up spicy **economy** cars are treated as Ferraris and McLarens

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zubiaur@reddit

Haha, can imagine. In our case we were shopping for a minivan.

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BonnevilleGXP@reddit

The dealership thing is so true. The last 2 cars my parents bought have been Hondas because nobody at a Toyota dealership would even look at them.

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ReticentGuru@reddit

The absolute worst shopping experience I ever had was at a Toyota dealership. I thought the sales rep was just super excited about the Tundra, turned out was overly aggressive. When I ultimately told him I wasn’t interested, he became rude. I had mistakenly let them appraise my trade in. I just asked for my keys back, and I had to search for my truck. The dealership called, asked for my opinion, and was shocked that I told them what I thought. Despite Toyota’s reliability reputation, it would be a cold day in hell before I’d consider one.

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lizardnamedguillaume@reddit

We just bought a Subaru, and went to Toyota to test drive a Rav (maybe 5 weeks ago, in canada). We were not worth their time. They didn't even have a Rav to test drive lol. And, it would have been 2 months to get it! Bonus fun fact, Toyota offered the worst financing rate, something like 5.99, while Subaru offered 3.99. The fun fact is that Subaru gave us a better rate and they use Toyota credit lol!

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FartSni@reddit

I wanted to love my GT86 so badly, but when I wasn't on a quiet, windy road to really let go, it was just a poky 2 door plasticy POS. Dealership also screwed me, "brand new" battery died a week after I took delivery and they did everything to avoid sorting it.

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Educational_Age_1333@reddit

This is the first criticism I've ever seen of that vehicle.

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TheHarbarmy@reddit

When I was car shopping in 2022 (during the post-COVID shortages), the Corolla was at the top of my list, so I called my local Toyota dealer asking if they had any on the lot. Guy says yes, *specifically claims there’s no wait time,* and asks if I want to come in for a test drive, and I agree to meet him there the next day. I show up, and another salesman tells me the guy I talked to isn’t in that day, but he’ll take care of me, no problem. I say ok, can I still test drive the car, and he tells me that actually they don’t allow anyone to test drive until they’ve already placed a purchase deposit, and that there’s also a four-month waiting list. When I point out that this makes no sense, he just says “this is how it’s always worked, kid.” Needless to say, I did not buy a car from them.

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300noon@reddit

That's insane lol. Almost the exact opposite of my experience buying a Corolla.

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DangerousAd1731@reddit

Toyota dealerships are the worse. Wish we could buy factory direct.

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mrbubbles2@reddit

Had one ask my wife how much of a payment she wanted a month, then he wrote up some finance terms on a piece of paper and was shoving a pen in her hand trying to force her to sign it saying “If I find you a car with these terms will you take it”. I about lost it. Even then the terms were shit too

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DjImagin@reddit

80s/90s/00s Toyotas earned that reputation. 10/20 Toyotas it really does seem like their quality has suffered.

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Sharp-Being-5048@reddit

Yes. But also Honda and Toyota are best driving ones for the masses (if you exclude Mazda that may be hit or miss and targeted for enthusiasts). For example, there are nitpicks on how Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Subaru drive. For example, Hyundai is known for notoriously using traction control to cut the power obscenely in the wet/snow. Nissans suspension on Rogue/Kicks is crashy at the bottom of shock travel, as if there is no isolation on the mounting point to the body. Subaru has very jerky start/stop. Mazda is slightly punishing on a very very bad pavement with their beam suspension. Corolla Hybrid/Civic on the other hand? Zero quirks about driving, there is zero strange stuff that the car does and as a driver you turn off your brain and just go from A to B. Their hybrid drivetrain smoothness is sorted out, you don’t have Subaru infotainment mess, Toyotas AC namely works the best among nearly all competitots, and list goes on and on. It is like an Apple where it may not have as many features as Android based phones have but it just works. Also, fuel economy is just astonishingly good on their hybrids.

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cat_prophecy@reddit

The Toyota dealerships I've been to have been pretty good. For me it's Ford dealers that are basically like "if you're not here to spend $80k on a truck, then fuck off and die".

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brandon0228@reddit

Well the same thing is happening with ford and Chevy. They are only replacing the short block and the qualifiers for even that is pretty strict. 2025s are starting to blow up and now I’m not confident mine will be safe. The engines obviously have a design flaw.

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ChangeForAParadigm@reddit (OP)

I also can’t really respect Maserati. Their beautiful designs are undercut by (I’ve heard) wide spread parts borrowing that doesn’t seem to result in reliability improvements. I’d probably be less concerned if I were rich though.

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curly686@reddit

Every maserati owner is pretending they are rich, none of them are actually rich. The cars are o-k at best.

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WholeRazzmatazz7658@reddit

Maseratis are for people who aren't in three commas club.

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robocop_py@reddit

LOL \> I have doors that open like this. Not like this. Not like this.

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Jolrit@reddit

Does this mean that I am in the three commas club because I don’t know what that means?

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PlasticMessage3093@reddit

Means you're a billionaire

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LowSkyOrbit@reddit

I wouldn't mind being in the 2 comma club.

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peachfrog99@reddit

Seems like this stereotype is universal. I wish they didn't have this reputation because they look and sound fantastic, and are fairly reliable for what they are.

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Ill-Mastodon7727@reddit

This one caught me off guard a while ago. I tow cars for a living and the first Ghibli I picked up, I saw the push button start, and various other controls and thought to myself “this is all Dodge stuff.” I know it’s FCA/Stellantis, but at least try to make some kind of effort to not make it look like a parts bin special in a fancy dress.

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joe_canadian@reddit

> “this is all Dodge stuff.” Ford did this in the 90/2000's. Seriously, you'd find Ford Focus switchgear in high end vehicles like the Volvo S80. VAG sometimes does this too, put an Audi and VW door panel side by side. I'd have trouble telling the difference.

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Ill-Mastodon7727@reddit

Those I knew about. Actually, one of my old tow customers bought an Aston DB9 a while ago and had to replace the key in it… it’s the same fob as a Volvo XC70 with that weird barrel key from mid 00s Jaguars [https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SqAAAOSwBCFmu-6I/s-l400.jpg](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SqAAAOSwBCFmu-6I/s-l400.jpg)

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lifegoeson2702@reddit

My mom’s Jeep Cherokee has the same stalks, light & window switches as a Ghibli 🤦‍♂️.

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LowSkyOrbit@reddit

That stuff doesn't bother me. What is really crazy is when the side indicator on the Ford Focus is the exact same part as used on the Lamborghini Murcielago. It's crazier to think when Lambo is owned by VW/Audi and not Ford.

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Motorsport-@reddit

At first this bothered me too- but think of the ease of being able to replace a mass produced part with a likely junkyard full of replacements. Switch gear is the last thing I need an Italian company doing.

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DjImagin@reddit

Na, they add the Maserati sticker to charge you 3x the price for something that was designed for the Neon 😂

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BeigeChocobo@reddit

This is a decent point. I don't know how long it would take Pagani to hew a new window switch out of a solid block of artisinal aluminum but my guess is it wouldn't be quick.

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Ill-Mastodon7727@reddit

Makes sense. But I see them doing some ass backwards stuff like adding an extra pin of specific connector that is proprietary to THAT car. Because you just have to have some Italian frustration 😂

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6inarowmakesitgo@reddit

Maseratis are hot fucking *garbage*. When they run right though it’s fantastic to flog one down the highway.

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EloeOmoe@reddit

> Their beautiful designs are undercut by (I’ve heard) wide spread parts borrowing that doesn’t seem to result in reliability improvements. Why? Parts borrowing is a staple of the entire industry. The Lambo Urus is 90% Audi. Why would Maserati using the same start/stop button that Ferrari used for a while and Dodge uses increase or decrease reliability?

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SwiftCEO@reddit

I’m in the same boat. I considered one in the past, but I’ve never heard of a mechanic recommending a Jeep. That’s enough for me to stay away.

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TheCanadianShield99@reddit

Jeep...no. After about 18 months it became apparent it was going to be a 💩. Hinges rust, entire Jeep needs to be painted, roof leaks, rear defroster stops working, infotainment system and mobile app buggy.....nope.

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1Rocnam@reddit

My Jeep is 13 years old and I've never had any of those issues.

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TheCanadianShield99@reddit

You are the chosen one....I have heard stories of your existence!

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1Rocnam@reddit

Ha ha this made me laugh.

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TheCanadianShield99@reddit

😁😁

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yokramer@reddit

There’s a reason for Just Empty Every Pocket. That said there’s nothing like a Wrangler if you’re actually going to use it for wheeling more than a forest service road or the beach.

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ACuddlySnowBear@reddit

I mean the Bronco exists

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LowSkyOrbit@reddit

And it's causing ownership suffering too

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yokramer@reddit

While the Bronco is a capable off road truck it can’t keep up with a solid front axle. It’s a good compromise and can make it way farther than 90% of people that buy them and Wranglers will ever go but for especially the rock crawling I do the solid front axle of the Wrangler is the top choice.

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6inarowmakesitgo@reddit

One of my friends was in the market for a new car, they asked me what to avoid. I said Jeep, a week later they had a new Cherokee. The radio still is giving them constant problems and that boat anchor 2.5 multiair is burning oil like crazy and not even at 40K.

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athrix@reddit

Had a friend that was obsessed with jeeps. Basically need to set aside a couple thousand per year for repairs. He had 3 different wranglers over time and every one of them had consistent problems.

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sl33ksnypr@reddit

I told my mother in law not to buy one, she did anyway. I told her to set aside a few hundred a month for when it inevitably has problems (and it definitely has). And I told her to basically just keep paying her car payment into a savings account for when the big one happens. It's bound to one day. She's already had to pay for a bolt extraction/replacement because jeep used too small of a bolt. And she almost had a $3k+ repair for an entire engine harness had I not been able to do some wiring repairs for her.

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thedogthatmooed@reddit

Teslerss. Pretty self explanatory

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athrix@reddit

It’s a shame too because their infotainment might be the best in the market and they have some nice QOL features. But musk is a supreme douche, build quality is just ok, needs a few more buttons, service is spotty, and the brand is tainted now.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

Policy [discussion is welcome](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/politics). However, if your post involves politics AND CARS, please consider submitting to /r/CarsOffTopic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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Nostalgic_Sunset@reddit

this is only for the North American market. The Chinese market has far more advanced infotainment systems and ADAS, but we don't allow those here because our wonderful billionaires need their cut

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jbj153@reddit

That is simply not true. Having driven various cars from Xpeng and BYD, their cars are inferior in every way to a Tesla. Infotainment is absolutely shit in those cars

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Nostalgic_Sunset@reddit

the absolute delusion lmao ADAS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuDSz06BT2g Infotainment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iDJiLBlrPU Interior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPaihE2JMK8 These are just examples. There are many others. If you think Chinese EVs have inferior infotainment compared to Tesla, you must be a boomer living under a rock

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300noon@reddit

Nah that thing looks like ass lmao. Fuck touchscreens I want buttons

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jbj153@reddit

I'm not basing my comment on biased reviews, but personal experience, you can't quite say the same thing lmao

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Nostalgic_Sunset@reddit

ah, right. The biased reviews. We should all listen to the credible and professional opinion of u/jbj153 instead of Thomas from autogefuehl 🤡

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Therealconman16@reddit

Ironic you say that driving a Volkswagen

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SophistXIII@reddit

Ironic you say that driving a Nissan.

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Electrical-Trash-712@reddit

Tesla has fallen doubly far in my eyes. Musk and his issues aside, the Cybertruck illustrates (to me at least) that they are heading in an even worse direction in their quality and engineering decisions. For years I’ve been of the opinion that they should focus on their chassis and drivetrain work and sell that to higher quality car manufacturers… But at this point, I’m not sure I would be interested in buying a car with a Tesla drivetrain in it.

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fcman256@reddit

I love my Model Y but I’ll never buy another Tesla as long as Musk is head honcho

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NumbersOverFeelings@reddit

I think it’s somewhat irrelevant if he’s head honcho (calling the shots) and more relevant while he derives profit/wealth from TSLA.

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fcman256@reddit

True, I should have really said “if he’s involved at all” lol

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blue_collared@reddit

Yeah Musk is a massive POS, but also the way they treat engineers and employees in general id never buy one from a company that thinks they can take advantage of their employees simply because of their company hype. So yeah multiple reasons why I'd never buy one.

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chromejockpsycho@reddit

I quite like the model X but…yeah

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

Policy [discussion is welcome](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/politics). However, if your post involves politics AND CARS, please consider submitting to /r/CarsOffTopic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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Pr1zzm@reddit

100% would be a pretty great commuter/daily. But obviously I will never seriously consider one, lol.

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Rebellious_Rabbit@reddit

I’ve wanted an Alfa Romeo Giulia from the moment they were unveiled here in the US but their god awful reputation for being pieces of shit keeps me from even entertaining the idea. So while I don’t hate the car itself, I hate the company for making it suck.

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whatwouldbiggiedo@reddit

Except that’s not the reputation they have at all. The Giulia has proven to be reliable

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Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit

That is the reputation they have in the real world... go ask anyone their thoughts about Alfa Romeo... 50% will have no idea what Alfa Romeo even is, and the other 50% will say they are unreliable...

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whatwouldbiggiedo@reddit

You’ve got me there - but it’s just that, a reputation. Not a reason not to buy one

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Rebellious_Rabbit@reddit

You just claimed it didn’t have that reputation, then backtracked to agree but said the reputation isn’t a reason not to buy one? Buddy if you drive one and you like it good for you but your takes here are god awful.

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whatwouldbiggiedo@reddit

The point is that it’s an undeserved reputation that’s not based on truth. Which I suppose is not really a reputation

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6inarowmakesitgo@reddit

Typical Italian made equipment. I work with Italian made BMB toggle injection molding presses and they are absolute SHIT. Same with the Fosber corrugating equipment, all from Italy. I would be looking at the electrical schematics like “ how much sangria was consumed for this fettuccine fuckery??!!”

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BeigeChocobo@reddit

Same, it didn't help that they kept breaking down on journalists in multiple initial reviews.

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EloeOmoe@reddit

> they kept breaking down on journalists in multiple initial reviews Only the Quadrifoglio. The base car was/is pretty reliable.

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Rebellious_Rabbit@reddit

Yep, such a let down

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Alpine_Exchange_36@reddit

Toyota. They make ok cars that a lot of people like…I just can’t get past certain aspects about their brand strategy

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HxChris@reddit

I’m really curious what those are, as I’ve never heard anyone bring that up before. Is Lexus included in that?

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Alpine_Exchange_36@reddit

Toyota charges new car prices for outdated designs and people love it. For me not offering open diffs on 4Runners and Tacos is a good example of that. You can get AWD on a 30K CUV but you can’t get it on a 50K 4Runner or Tacoma when other brands not named Toyota do that. Interior is another example. Toyota notoriously has…different…interiors than other brands. If Chevy or Ford did that it’d be called dated. Toyota does that and it’s reliable? I’m really trying not to roast them here so please I’m hoping people won’t be furious with me for those takes

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DoublePostedBroski@reddit

1000% Toyota charges borderline BMW prices for outdated technology and a pretty ho-hum lineup. They ride on the reliability aspect and people line up to get ass whipped by them. Toyota has a huge ego and I wish they’d come back down to earth. No one wants to pay $85,000 for a 4Runner.

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chumbucket77@reddit

Unfortunately people are and its idiotic. Its a nice suv. Thats it. Just a regular nice suv you would see at any working class familys house. Same with a tacoma. A nice midsize truck. No more no less. But here people are paying almost 6 figures for them every year. Even more idiots paying mid 20s for a 15 yr old vehicle with 190k miles on it.

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DoublePostedBroski@reddit

Tacomas have no business being as much as Toyota is charging.

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chumbucket77@reddit

Ya its absolutely comical how expensive they are

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ragingxtc@reddit

> Unfortunately people are and its idiotic. People will take a 72/84/96 month loans on such a car without thought, but will barely fund their 401k. A lot of Americans are trading in their retirement for a shiny new SUV/truck that they will stop maintaining properly once the honeymoon phase wears off a year and a half into ownership.

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xtrapped-under-ricex@reddit

I'm not one of those as I fund my 401k, but a lot of people in my generation have pretty much given up on ever retiring. They've been beaten down so bad by inflation, shitty healthcare, student loans they were pretty much forced to take since we've been told since day 1 that college is the only path we can take and then have face a shitty job market, etc. that they'd rather buy a new car and enjoy it now and just accept they'll die sitting at their desk. It's pretty fucked honestly. I know some people who are pretty successful and have decided not to have kids because they'd rather keep their money for retirement. Maybe that's all just shortsightedness, I don't know, but it's just what I've observed.

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ragingxtc@reddit

I get it. I'm 41, so I've been through several once-in-a-lifetime economic events. And I totally agree, it is fucked, the "American Dream" is dead.

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chumbucket77@reddit

Screwing themselves while simultaneously screwing everyone else over by driving the price through the roof for everyone else. Goof stuff.

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ragingxtc@reddit

I truly do feel like we are living in another gilded age. Everyone is trying to project wealth, but very few actually have it. Hell, most don't even have their head above water. I believe we have some interesting times ahead of us.

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Pseudonym_741@reddit

> No one wants to pay $85,000 for a 4Runner. Well there clearly is a demand if they've priced it that high.

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DoublePostedBroski@reddit

That’s kind of what I mean too. People are gladly paying way over what these are actually worth because “Toyota.”

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molrobocop@reddit

Yeah, if we're talking prior gens, TRD Pro's were just money printers. No justification for the $5-10k premium over the TRD-OR tier. Especially now. But hey, if you want that badge, and are willing to pay out the nose, cool.

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cat_prophecy@reddit

I feel like all of the people saying this are referring mostly to the 4Runner, Land Cruiser, and Tacoma. Their sedans, CUVs, and van are all really solid, with lots of modern stuff going on. It's just the trucks where they seem to phone it in. But then again, people are still buying last generation's stuff for above MSRP so why change?

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huhwhat90@reddit

I wish they had nostalgia for 2005 with their interiors. I feel like my '05 Camry has way nicer interior materials than modern Toyotas.

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specialcannonbeam@reddit

I feel Toyota and maybe Honda are the “Apple” of the car world. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

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LowSkyOrbit@reddit

When it comes to engine and transmission design I feel that's warranted. When it comes to interior quality and technology that people want it can be brutal to drive a new car that has less tech than some cars built 7-10 years ago.

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Slideways@reddit

What do you mean by not offering an open differential?

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triplesixxx@reddit

The limited trim of the 4runner has AWD. At least for the 5th gens, I’m not sure about the new ones.

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mastawyrm@reddit

I'm curious what you mean by dated. The only Toyota I've ever shopped for is the tundra vs literally everything I could think of that could tow 8000+. I ended up choosing it not in small part because the interior and tech were nice

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m1a2c2kali@reddit

I mean it’s probably just the backlash against all the screens and no buttons. People want the dated buttons at this point.

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stav_and_nick@reddit

What gets me is the people defending it. In certain cases, fine, I can accept the argument But Toyota switching to a smaller Bezel/bezelless design for infotaintment only happening next year is crazy. Bezel thickness has nothing to do with reliability, it's just giving you more space at better aesthetic for slightly (VERY SLIGHTLY) more cost But not, blocky bezels like it's 2015 again

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Smart_History4444@reddit

I wish more people realized this and stopped overpaying for Toyotas. Especially in the used market. People are asking 15k+ for tacomas that have done 150k+ miles with a rotten frame. Like what? Come on.

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hehechibby@reddit

> Toyota charges new car prices for outdated designs and people love it. There always seems to be a demographic that likes that outdated design though; see how the Nissan Frontier was always pretty mid pack when the Tacoma had a v6 but now the Frontier is special and all due to it's v6 > If Chevy or Ford did that it’d be called dated. to be fair, toyota would still be called dated lol > Toyota does that and it’s reliable? and like above, I do agree some of their models are a tad more sparse then competitors but an interior being bland / dated is a little different then it being reliable

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RelativeMotion1@reddit

A good 5-7 years behind the pack, refuses to take any orders, offers uncompetitive options, rarely offers a deal, and has a so-so dealer experience. And people not only fall over themselves to buy them, they go to bat for them on social media. Incredible brand loyalty they’ve been able to create, despite not being any more reliable than Honda, Mazda, etc.

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Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit

I hate that with Toyota there is a very obvious glaring issue with each of them unless you are willing to pay 6 figures...

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eneka@reddit

i've test driven the Toyota equivilent of every car I bought....always ended back at Honda lol.

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StraightStackin@reddit

Hyundai and Kia. I will never like either of them. Growing up in the 90s they were the cheapest piece of garbage car anyone could buy, complete junk. That reputation is still there for me. I see nice cars come from them and feel like its just filled to the brim with cheap build quality and components.

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DoublePostedBroski@reddit

Hyundai/Kia are ranked 10 out of all mainstream manufacturers for reliability (Consumer Reports). Not too shabby since 3 spots are the usual Toyota, Lexus, Subaru then Mazda. I don’t know about their build quality though. I remember in the late 90’s when Kia first showed up and it they were laughed at. You could get one for like $3000 new. Then dealers had the buy one get one promotions.

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lolxcorezorz@reddit

Kia and Hyundai have completely turned things around from the pre 2015 nightmare vehicles they used to sell. I had one of their Stingers at one point and it was a fantastic car.

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dr3@reddit

I’ve heard this about recent quality, but hear horror stories about the dealership and service experience. Not to mention the whole Kia Boyz thing. I think their EVs are rated very high snd look good, but am weary complex of Korean electronics (Samsung appliances for example.)

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lolxcorezorz@reddit

Yeah I cannot defend their dealership experience lol

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DoublePostedBroski@reddit

Oh yeah, Hyundai especially thinks they’re selling you a Bentley.

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lolxcorezorz@reddit

I assisted in the purchase of a Hyundai recently, and the salesman told us the purchase price and the financing and then brought out a number which (when put into the calculator which includes all the fees and interest) resulted in like a $15,000 overpayment. So I called them out and instead of explaining themselves, they “went back to the finance manager” and brought back a number which was, again, way over the correct amount. After the third time, their numbers made sense, but it was such a sleazy way to try to straight up LIE to a buyer.

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molrobocop@reddit

Did you buy the Stinger new? If so, I still vividly recall the absolute nutty dealer antics with selling them.

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lolxcorezorz@reddit

I did. I showed up at a dealership just to look at it without any intention to buy it and I told them as much. It was in the showroom and the salesman said that while I was there I should try it out. I told him that didn’t seem like a good use of his time but ok. Test drove it, it was great. Told him I would only buy it if the monthly payment was a certain number (an absolute long shot, basically me saying I didn’t want it) and he came back and said ok. Then he sent me home in it for the night and told me to bring it back tomorrow and I could decide then if I wanted it. After that night, I did indeed want it. One of the best dealership experiences I’ve ever had. My other experiences with Kia dealerships are QUITE the opposite.

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RandomflyerOTR@reddit

This. Hyundais had such an ass reputation in the 90s that I think most people alive then will never fully see Hyundai as a proper brand.

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require_borgor@reddit

I had an Elantra as a rental a few months ago and couldn't believe how cheap and shitty the interior felt. Like I can't see how people will pay 25k for something like that. Made the Sentra I had later that month feel like an S Class.

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Foxicious_@reddit

Subaru... Grew up adoring the heritage of that brand and the whole EVO Vs WRX thing, Now they just make worse versions of Toyota's already boring cars with junk CVT's if you ask me.

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consolidatedBD@reddit

CVTs are a deal-breaker for me from any brand. Not sure if I'm being overly biased against them at this point.

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cfbrand3rd@reddit

I literally grew up in VWs & VW dealerships. But late ‘90s/early 00s quality broke me. DieselGate was just the icing on the cake. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked by that ID.4 or Buzz at the mall and thought “I can see myself in that!” only to remember that buying an all electric car from a company that destroyed my spirit with electrical gremlins in ICE cars may not be the way to go…😢

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DoublePostedBroski@reddit

And it’s, like, $100,000 for what’s a pretty basic minivan.

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stav_and_nick@reddit

I feel like the only reason the [ID.Buzz](http://ID.Buzz) exists is for the smaller shorter range cargo version that only exists in the EU. That's pretty reasonable and great for last mile delivery As a halo product that can share costs with a delivery van, makes sense. They don't really work without the other

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cat_prophecy@reddit

I thought the Buzz was going to be way more popular than it is. To date I have seen exactly 1 on the road. Then again, the base price is $60k without adding any dealer bullshit.

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LowSkyOrbit@reddit

The Buzz is a 35k van at best if it was ICE. I rather spend 60k on a Hybrid Van from Toyota, Honda, Kia, or Chrysler (the one product they still make). I'm a VW fan, but the Buzz took too long to get to market and was priced too high for the US market.

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cfbrand3rd@reddit

Just so we’re keepin’ it real here, a base Kia Carnival is $36.8, and my daughter’s Sienna was $60k.

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cat_prophecy@reddit

$60k for a Sienna is going to be the top, platinum trim though. Our XLE with AWD and the fancy stereo was like $45k, even in 2022.

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cfbrand3rd@reddit

I mean, the ID. Buzz is a niche vehicle. It’s a van, sure, but the look is the reason it exists. It’s the Neu Beetle for the New Millennium. Anyone considering practicality first would’ve bought a Golf over a New Beetle, both in the late ‘70s AND the late ‘90s. Similarly, VW sells a perfectly serviceable van (Caravelle T7) to the rest of the world with all the utility of the modern minivan. (Which they don’t sell here because, as discussed often on Reddit, VW hates us.) But the Buzz? Never meant to be a sales leader. It’s a halo vehicle, meant to draw folks into a showroom stuffed with immensely boring SUVs. But…in it’s 7 passenger EV niche, it’s not bad. Within $5k of the starting price of the cheapest 7 passenger EVs available in the ‘States. For example: more room than a Kia EV9 with about the same range as the base Kia, and that’s $54.9. Damn; I’m talking myself into it again. Gotta stop that. Gonna have to hit that VWs Anonymous meeting this evening at that abandoned Borgward dealer on the edge of town…🚫

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LowSkyOrbit@reddit

Oh I'm keeping it real and it's why I said I rather spend 60k on a Loaded Hybrid from one of those four. The VW is a sub par for the price. These are family haulers in the US, and strikingly VW makes a great campervan that it refuses to sell in America, and instead we get a cargo van that will work as a airport hauler better than a weekend family trip van. The Sienna LE starts at 41K, but we all know Toyota base models are paper releases or they make 10 at best. the Kia Carnival Hybrid also starts at 41K as a hybrid but the Kia has better tech options and more upfront features and tops out a little lower in price.

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trail-g62Bim@reddit

And the range is abysmal, no?

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cat_prophecy@reddit

Well they're not advertising it, so my guess is that it's astonishingly bad.

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trail-g62Bim@reddit

Yeah when I first saw it, I thought some people would love it but when I heard the range...that just isn't acceptable in 2025.

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ragingxtc@reddit

They also drive like dogshit.

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RevvCats@reddit

My sister had a yellow bug in high school and holy shit that thing was an endless pit of electrical gremlins. When the car worked it was peppy and more fun to drive than I expected but just being tangentially related to that car turned me off to VW.

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Pkock@reddit

Same, I had 2 used Audi/VW B5 platform cars in a row as first cars, and it kinda broke me (financially). I did love them but it was tough being introduced to the brand in one of it's most unreliable eras in possibly it's most unreliable common platform. It soured Audi for me in a way that's probably unfair, where I don't give it a fair shake when cross shopping.

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cfbrand3rd@reddit

I knew I t was over for VAG the day I saw that the A8 was actually using an electric switch and solenoid release system…*FOR THE GLOVE BOX!!!!*

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scroopydog@reddit

They’re on stop-sale anyway, so not only can you not get one but your instincts are also correct.

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MGPS@reddit

The new BMW

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ggouge@reddit

Honda. The cars seem good but I hate Honda people especially civic tuners.

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quirx90@reddit

The Honda Odyssey fucks hard tho

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ggouge@reddit

Almost bought one in January but my irrational hated kept me from doing it

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Significant_Gear_335@reddit

Coming from an all-Honda family, I get it. We do tend to cut them too much slack. I’m the first of my family to really point out their flaws such as when the 1.5t and CVTs were proving insanely unreliable early on. Even though I had proof to back it, my family still fought me on it.

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molrobocop@reddit

Yeah, I loooove Honda. But I also concede they fuck up from time to time. So your research. Don't buy first year models.

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nickrct@reddit

Manual Honda Fit/Jazz might be the perfect car ever created. Just don't spread that around you have to keep it a secret!

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stav_and_nick@reddit

It's so fucking funny seeing the honda subreddits. Like every second post is "I got a base model honda :fire emoji: what should I do with it??" Like just drive it and enjoy all 150 horsepower bro

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Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit

I can understand it if you are young, and just got your first car, and want to have some fun, but seeing 30+ year olds asking about modding a base Honda is funny...

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eneka@reddit

I love my civic..but man the community is....just young.

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Smart_History4444@reddit

I don’t hate any brand. I don’t avoid brands I welcome Them all. But stereotypes of BMWs is something I don’t enjoy. I especially don’t enjoy when people key my car because of the brand I’m driving. That’s a stupid mentality to have. Oh and I don’t like the fact that everyone worships Toyota. Like yeah they are reliable but that’s all Toyotas bros talk about lol

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LemursRideBigWheels@reddit

Only car that has actually left me stranded high and dry in the middle of nowhere (like rural Madagascar nowhere) was a Land Cruiser…Toyotas can and do break just like anything else. Did eventually hitch a ride in a 1974 Peugeot mini-truck which surprisingly did not break down…

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CheeseMakerThing@reddit

I thought the whole point of thoss old Peugeots is that they were built to do a million miles in Africa with no problems?

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LemursRideBigWheels@reddit

Pretty much! That truck was the local workhorse. I once saw it full of like 10 dudes down a road that would make most jeeps blush. Whenever they got somewhere it couldn’t make it up loaded, they’d all hop out and push. Thing ran really well for being a 30 year old vehicle…so well in fact that you had to pull the battery lead off to turn it off due to a toasted throttle!

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menacingmoron97@reddit

Same. I also find that when I drive my BMWs (well, that’s all I drive now, but I used to drive some Fords and VW AG products too), people are less likely to be nice. They don’t let me merge lanes, they deliberately hold me back on the highway when I want to overtake (I never flash at anybody or tailgate, I just wait until they notice), pedestrians are afraid to step on the crossing if I’m coming etc. When I was switching often between a BMW and a totally average everyday car like my old Ford Mondeo, I could definitely notice the difference. But there’s no smoke without fire is there. There are a lot of real douchebags driving BMWs - although I would say, same for Audis and Mercedes AMGs. And Skoda. And Toyota… I drove a few as company fleet cars. I always found that they seem older generation than they really are. Probably has to do with being generally reliable - but I wouldn’t be happy to pay new car money for something that feels older.

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argothewise@reddit

Yeah I experience significantly more tail gating behavior when I’m in my ‘23 BMW.

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Pr1zzm@reddit

Unfortunately the bimmer stereotypes exist for a reason. But be the change you want to see in the world, or something.

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Smart_History4444@reddit

Yeah they exist. But that doesn’t give any person to key my car when I haven’t done anything to them. Thankfully wasn’t done to my M3 but another bmw.

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Pr1zzm@reddit

Oh 100% agreed, keying anyone's car for any reason is a bitch move. Glad your M3's paint is intact.

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cotxdx@reddit

Nissan. They do have cool-looking cars and their aircon are usually the best of it's class. However in my country (Philippines) , they always release their models a few years later than in other markets.

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kbarthur03@reddit

I would like to love Nissan as a brand too, especially because they haven’t abandoned sedans like US manufacturers. But the typical Nissan driver in the US…oof. I drive more defensively around Altimas by reflex now.

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cotxdx@reddit

Speaking of sedans, when they changed distributors in 2013, the much-beloved Sentra was replaced with Sylphy. Same car, different name. The market did not like the name change (the car was nicknamed "Sylphylis"), and it was pulled out a few years later.

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Moist-Emergency-3030@reddit

I agree with Nissan. Absolute garbage vehicles and don't live up to Japanese quality. They are the Chrysler of Japan.

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fair23@reddit

>Nissan They do have cool-looking cars and their aircon are usally the best of it’s class. >Absolute garbage vehicles and don’t live up to Japanese quality. Doesn’t really correlate to what his post given that he’s from the Philippines..

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fair23@reddit

>usually the best of it’s class >Absolute garbage vehicles and don’t live up to Japanese quality. That’s not what he was implying in his post though?

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jasonlitka@reddit

They really went down hill when Ghosn fled the country. They should have let him keep ripping the place off and they’d likely be in much better shape…

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lifegoeson2702@reddit

I don’t hate Land Rovers but im just baffled and disappointed that after all these years they are just as unreliable as ever. While other European luxury brands have made noticeable strides to improve their quality, reliability and durability, Land Rovers are still just as temperamental money pits as they always were. It’s a shame as their engineering, tech, design and image are all super impressive and appealing. Just my two cents.

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Salsalito_Turkey@reddit

If you think Land Rover reliability hasn’t improved, you truly don’t understand how unreliable they were 25 years ago.

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ly5ergic@reddit

My parents had a 1988 Range Rover that ran forever with no problems. Lucky or a good year, not sure.

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Salsalito_Turkey@reddit

The Range Rover of that era was extremely simple and the biggest problem they had was oil leaks. Land Rover reliability got its infamous reputation from the models designed under BMW ownership (1988-2000).

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stav_and_nick@reddit

It's a moving target. They were in the bottom and remain in the bottom, but that's still a markedly better place than previously

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StyofoamSword@reddit

I remember when a few years ago Doug DeMuro did a cross country trip in his new Defender, and he said that the only thing that broke was the sunroof. My Civic is nearly 15 years old and has about 150,000 miles on it, and I'd be really annoyed if the sunroof on it stopped working. Having it break on a new luxury vehicle would be unacceptable to me.

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henchman171@reddit

I swear half the people in the Toyota sub have leaky sunroofs

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ReV46@reddit

Sounds like the ethos in British motoring in general. Seems like they count reliability issues as a quirky feature and not a problem to rectify.

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Secret-Assistance-10@reddit

Yeah and also, they cost almost twice as much as other luxury SUVs without substantial differences...

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argothewise@reddit

The ride is noticeably better than the regular luxury SUV

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lifegoeson2702@reddit

Until the air suspension fails, which it will. It’s a matter of when, not if.

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Drewski87@reddit

I actually witnessed my uncle’s rover’s air suspension fail. I was leaning against the car talking with my cousin and noticed that I was comically getting lower at a slow rate. This was over a decade ago, he scrapped it shortly after and replaced it with an S class that he decided to hang on to and it has been nearly perfect.

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Oskarikali@reddit

The Defender isn't that expensive. I've seen Wranglers going for significantly more. They start at something like 70k CAD, not sure what they sell for in the U.S but the exchange rate is equivalent to 51k USD. Yes that is the bare base model and they can go way up in price but base msrp is very reasonable.

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Secret-Assistance-10@reddit

Not sure of the difference in taxes but in Europe, the defender starts at 67k€ or equivalent of 77k$ or 105kCAD. And it's for the 3 door variant plus the defender doesn't really compete with luxury SUVs.

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Automatic-End-8256@reddit

Yea I mean they have the 392 wrangler that is as much as an entry level range rover with options... I don't know about anymore but 20 years ago they where leaps and bounds above the completion. It was honestly like riding in an SUV from 10 years in the future when it worked

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BetweenFourAndTwenty@reddit

If you get the right ones, they can be okay to own. Not Toyota reliable, but not a nightmare either. The older ones with the 4.2/4.4 Jaguar V8 are mechanically solid. The ZF6 used in those years is mid at best, though. And they can have their issues. Every manufacturer who used ZF at the time had the same issues.

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QenefGomari@reddit

Only take Rover reliability advice from Rover owners! I’ve own vehicles from virtually every major manufacturer, and my Rovers have been no less reliable than any of them. The worst has been Jeep.

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beer_foam@reddit

I would say my LR3 has been perfectly average (for a 20 year old truck) but it seems like Land Rover enthusiasts consider the LR3/L320 rrs and L322 full fat range the peak of reliability and it’s been generally worse now that everything is forced induction and has even more electronics.

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QenefGomari@reddit

Those models were very good (I’ve had both the FF and RRS), currently have a Defender 90 Trophy. I do miss working on my old Discos though!

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andrew2018022@reddit

They’re amphibious exploring vehicles

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Absurdity_Everywhere@reddit

More of a, safe, slow vehicle. Good starter car.

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ajb15101@reddit

A starter car? This is a finisher car! A transporter of gods! The golden god! I am untethered and my rage knows no bounds

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

You’ve clearly never seen the parking lot of a college campus. Those are commuter cars for rich kids.

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cybae@reddit

woosh

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

Yes, sarcasm is super apparent on the internet just bc you added exclamation marks. How stupid of me. 🙄

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M_tech@reddit

It’s a “Always Sunny in Philadelphia” reference. He’s channeling his inner Dennis

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Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit

My spouse and I were talking about how most of their models fit out needs, except for being reliable.

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Lava_Lamp_Shlong@reddit

The big names of German luxury auto, massive cars with massive power, driven by inattentive lunatics most of the time

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DarkMatterM4@reddit

Mercedez makes pretty interesting, nutty cars. The AMG division really knows how to have fun and has perfected the art of subtle aggression. With that said, they will never get a dime of my money. Partially because of their rampant reliability issues, but mainly because of their heavy lobbying in the 80s to get the 25-year import rule passed through Congress.

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lolxcorezorz@reddit

I’ll have you know that I am a very attentive lunatic, tyvm.

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RadicalSnowdude@reddit

BMW. They drive great but their reliability has been bad for me.

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don-cheeto@reddit

Jaguars, Porsches, GTs, Corvettes, anything fancy. Chargers are starting to slide onto that list. I hate them because of the *reputation* of people getting them just to show off, but they're beautiful imo. Now something I hate for more than just the rep is CyberTrucks. Those things look like giant grey Legos and I saw one parked under the trees this morning on my way to work.

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Arondy@reddit

Mercedes. I loved the brand until I saw how quickly they fall apart. I consult Consumer Reports before buying now.

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Count_vonDurban@reddit

Just their road cars - I support them in racing series. Audi.

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Literature_Middle@reddit

Subaru. Great car, terrible car culture.

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Vhozite@reddit

Out of curiosity, are you referring to the outdoorsy dog lesbian side or the vape bro boy racers? Or both?

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Literature_Middle@reddit

Vape boys and people virtue signaling that they’re active and part of the club. And anyone who says the word Subie (shudders).

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Resident-Fox6758@reddit

Recently Tesla

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Jloh84@reddit

Subaru, always thought they were a decent product but the people that buy them are the most insufferable assholes.

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Snoo-22133@reddit

agreed and they almost always are driving 5 to 10 miles under the speed limit.

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GeoffreyDaGiraffe@reddit

Dodge Their limited lineup is still compelling to enthusiasts, but the association with bad drivers sours it for me.

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ride_epic_drive_epic@reddit

Bmw. I think they're the best cars ever, but the people driving them, at least here where i live...omfg.

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6inarowmakesitgo@reddit

I love my old Bimmers. The driving dynamics really dropped off after the E90 chassis as they had the *best* hydraulic steering ever in my opinion.

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Natasha_Gears@reddit

I find Ferrari to be incredibly boring and also really up their arse as a company ,sending cease and desist for modifying a car that someone chose to buy from them really ? Also Porsche are incredibly boring. Really don't think I have any negative feelings towards any other brand past a slight problem with them 2

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mixedBAGofCandy@reddit

I wish Audi could provide the same fulfilling driving experience and beautiful exteriors without the awful reliability record and comically difficult-to-work-on engineering.

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6inarowmakesitgo@reddit

Assume the service position.

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Successful_Parfait_3@reddit

Dodge. Vehicles were nice until I learned the Dodge brothers sued Ford because Ford wanted to reinvest into his employees & company. That lawsuit established Profit over People as we know it today. Their objective in the lawsuit was to ensure the corporate profits were for investors ONLY. Fck the Dodge brothers.

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davidbased@reddit

i used to love Hyundai. then they all started blowing up.

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MagnumMagnets@reddit

I own a Toyota, it’ll be my last though. Mechanically it’s been reliable, but the cheap shitty interior and quality of the fit/finish and electronic parts are laughably bad. Multiple door lock actuators were toast at 60k miles, unresponsive (major deadzone, can’t even change balance or inputs, or add new phone to Bluetooth) touchscreen just outside of warranty (not even capacitive touch, it’s a shitty resistive touch), dead speakers (never have volume too high either since I only listen to books and podcasts, they just started getting a rattle then died the next week), terrible dealership experiences, trim panels have had rattles since 15k miles, and the car just drives so boring and harsh but also uncomfortable for any distance longer than a grocery run. At least compared to other cars I’ve had, the “reliability” aspect doesn’t make up for the countless faults.

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Popular_Course3885@reddit

Ferrari Their cars are amazing from a technical standpoint. Absolutely amazing. But the entire "become a member of our culture" gatekeeping to buy one is absolutely toxic. Not to mention the strict Right of First Refusal you have to sign when you buy one, all so they can manipulate the pricing of the used market. I've had multiple family members that owed them. One drank the kool-aid and turned his personality into being a Ferrari owner, and the other saw through it after a few years and went elsewhere. To steal the Caddyshack line, it's a crummy snobatorium.

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UrineHere@reddit

I really hate Toyota. They feel very cheap and basic to me. The body panels are very thin and flimsy. The tech inside is also a generation behind. I know this is why they are reliable. Full disclosure...My wife has a '25 Sienna Platinum and she loves it. I will say they have made big strides on their interiors and I love they hold their value better than any other manufacturer. I want to like them but I still have problems getting the old Toyota of the past out of my brain.

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Froloswaggin@reddit

porsches. love everything about em. hate everything else about em.

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Ftpini@reddit

Dodge. Always wanted a Challenger Scat Pack but skipped it because I’ve never known anyone who actually had a good experience with the brand.

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SweetWilliam623@reddit

Maserati

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Dignam3@reddit

Toyota. Most of it is the keyboard warrior battalion coming to defend every legitimate gripe or issue. They are leaning heavily on their reputation for reliability, even if it isn't necessarily as great as it used to be. And the masses just eat it up.

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skepticaljesus@reddit

Toyota. Life would be so much easier, but their designs are all so unappealing to me.

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DjImagin@reddit

Chryslers. They have made some special cars and I love that they take risks on paint colors. But god their quality is absolute dogshit.

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german-car-guy@reddit

Lexus. Great design, reliability, price but dumb infotainment, lack of new technology and performance.

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EloeOmoe@reddit

I've grown to really dislike Porsche over the years, even after owning one and really liking it. They're really dumb regarding the 718 and its EV successor. They're increasingly unreliable. My Panamera was wildly unreliable. They're playing the same dumb buy/sell/hold and car configurator games for allocation that Ferrari played, was criticized for, and have been moving away from.

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VeeEight_Guy@reddit

Ram. Every time I consider buying another one I remind myself how frustrated I was with the electrical issues and apathetic dealer experience.

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reptile_enthusiast_@reddit

I'd love to own a Ford Maverick but I can get over the reliability record Ford has.

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DeTomato_@reddit

Any Chinese brand. I wish I liked them because the Chinese make decent and, most importantly, affordable EVs which are perfect for daily commutes. I still don’t trust Chinese cars and automakers, and I doubt that will change any time soon. Because of that, the only option in my country for good and affordable EV is Hyundai.

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Vhozite@reddit

BMW They make a lot of amazing, very capable vehicles. However I don’t trust their vehicles to be cheap/easy to maintain, and I personally would be embarrassed to drive a fake M vehicle. Also genuinely no offense to but I don’t want to be associated with most of the people who I see owning (mostly used) BMWs. Lots of negative interactions both irl and online.

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Svr-boi@reddit

Hyundai they make such nice cars at great value but a engine & trans blowing in one month of each other is hard to forget

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foshjowler@reddit

Toyota. Any dealership interaction I and friends have had with them has been bad. There’s an arrogance to everyone in the building because they build “reliable” cars. Anyone in my family that has owned a Toyota has had an average reliability experience, or worse, and warranty claims have been a pain in the ass.

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obviouslybait@reddit

The quality and reliability issues are way overblown. People expect them to die at 100K Miles, there are a lot of 2-300K Mile examples still running strong.

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TSLAog@reddit

Toyota. When you look into their back door politics they donate a lot of money to right-wing groups that are anti-science, anti-climate, etc… to lobby for less air quality, lesser tailpipe emissions, etc… Sadly their cars aren’t bad… but they ain’t getting my money anymore.

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Lucreth2@reddit

Kind of the opposite but I wish I didn't really like most dodges because God do I hate their owners and complete lack of quality/engineering. Is it possible for another company to acquire *only* their styling department next time? The rest of the company can go.

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RickyFleetwood@reddit

I wish I didn’t hate Hondas. Great great, fun cars.

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4rm4ros@reddit

Nissan

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Rubywantsin@reddit

Hyundai/Kia. They make good looking cars with good features but being stranded on the side of the road in a three year old car is unforgivable. And the world needs cheaper, reliable cars so Hyundai/Kia should be ashamed of themselves for being a disposable auto.

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Karrigan7@reddit

bmw and mercs not because they are bad or something, in fact i love their older cars and dreaming to own one someday. but boy as a someone who lives in third world country, they're ass to own. prone to break, maintenance could cost an arm and a leg, and not many repair shop know how to deal with them since they're too comfortable with japanese cars.

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crozone@reddit

As the owner of a Jeep, also Jeep. My JK Wrangler has actually been remarkably reliable for the 13 years I've owned it, but I have no upgrade paths here. The new model is apparently even more dubious since Stellantis took over. It's pretty sad when customers already like your previous products but you can't make anything worth upgrading to.

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KittehKittehKat@reddit

Mercedes. Man…

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BigRed23Sequoia@reddit

GM. I purchased a 1988 Chevy Baretta in 1987 and it was a horrible experience. In 1988 I said I would never purchase GM again and 14 vehicles later never purchased GM or recommended a product of theirs.

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Colorado_Car-Guy@reddit

Ferrari. It has nothing to do with their cars but their insane business practices of enforcing "rules" on cars people buy even after it leaves the showroom floor. Its either leave it stock, or get black listed.

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Bonerchill@reddit

All of them now. Life would be immensely easier if I could grok modern cars, man.

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just_another_jabroni@reddit

The German brands. Sad fact of living in Asia is that you pay Camry parts price for a Jetta which is just sad.

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Due_Percentage_1929@reddit

Ford. Now that the Mustang is the last affordable rwd v8 (and can have as a convertible), i am lost and forlorn. Bought most mainstream brands in my life (lots and lots of cars, i have a problem) but have never wanted a Ford.

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Jaiden051@reddit

Tesla. Wouldn't mind an old Model S P100D but somebody has ruined everything

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footiebuns@reddit

Mazda. The styling looks cool and the focus on the driving experience is great, but the styling also seems to waste space and looks like cheap/faux luxury.

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unatleticodemadrid@reddit

Ferrari for the allocation games.

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The_Carl_G@reddit

BMW. They seem to be great cars, but I found all the technology in the few I’ve driven to be really overwhelming, which ultimately soured my driving experience.

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SweepsAndBeeps@reddit

Land Rovers. They look cool

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Independent_Ninja456@reddit

Chrysler anything. I loved the Charger and the Jeeps but now they’re all garbage.

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Mrdirtbiker140@reddit

Well I don’t actually hate them, I love Subaru but will never buy another one. I’ve owned 2 in the past, affordable AWD, plethora of options, boxer engine, I love the premise. However, I bought a WRX brand new off the lot in 2017 (2nd Subaru), and daily drove it for about 4 years before it blew with about 80k miles. Consistent oil changes, no mods or stressing it out, didn’t matter. Blew a rod when doing a pull at about 60 miles an hour, not even 100% throttle. It sucks because I love the new(er at this point) BRZ, and their AWD SUV options, but I can’t stomach spending that money on an engine that can’t handle a daily commute.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

Policy [discussion is welcome](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/politics). However, if your post involves politics AND CARS, please consider submitting to /r/CarsOffTopic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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DoublePostedBroski@reddit

**Tesla** obviously. I mentioned **Toyota** elsewhere because they’re stuck in 2005 with their interiors and technology yet will charge you German car prices and expect you to like it because “reliability.” I’m also going to say GM for similar reasons, except the reliability. I don’t know who is buying these. They haven’t got out of the rounded bubble styling from the 90’s and the interior is like you fell into a Tupperware container there’s so much cheap plastic. They’re so so bad.

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martinjohnfdsa@reddit

Jeep for me too. I think the Grand Cherokee is one of the best looking SUVs out there, but would not want to deal with poor reliability. Same thing with Volvo. S60 (RIP) and SC90 both look amazing, but too many issues with reliability.

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TooManyCarsandCats@reddit

Anything Toyota. They’re just so blah.

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baddeafboy@reddit

Electric cars

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mit74@reddit

Don't not buy a car because of what you've heard on socal media. All cars these days are very reliable just some more than others. The reality is that most these cars people moan about are far more character than your Toyotas or VWs.

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Big_Flan_4492@reddit

Ford. I love the look of Mustangs they look so cool. But I had a GT350 and Ford is just always a huge step behind GM in terms of support, QC and properly making a track car. The staggering difference between a C8 ZR1 and a Mustang GTD is a prime example of this

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sirbleep@reddit

Porsche. I don't necessarily hate them, but I really wish that I liked them. They've just never excited me in any way. Realistically, the 911 and Cayman should be two of my favorite vehicles, driver focused, with solid daily usability, good reliability, and available manual transmissions. It's one of the only brands that's keeping the manual alive. However, there's not a single model that I look at and get excited about the prospect of owning one. The Cayenne should be my dream SUV, but it just doesn't do anything for me. A lightly used six cylinder Cayman surely would have been a better choice for me over the Integra Type S I bought, but I just can't get excited about it. And then the 911, I always look at them and go eh. The reality is, I will often recommend Porches to people who ask me for car recommendations because they're objectively fantastic cars, but I can never get excited about the prospect of buying one. I really wish it was the opposite, because it would make vehicle buying so much easier tbh.

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LazyLancer@reddit

Toyota I know they're successful as a business, reliable cars, great transportation devices. But the majority of the time i see someone going 10 under the limit with a huge gap ahead, sleeping on traffic lights, hesitating like a first time driver... most of the time that would be a Toyota. It's stupid but i don't want to drive a Toyota just because of that unless it's a GR-something.

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69-is-a-great-number@reddit

I'd personally really love to love Jaguar and Triumph, but I genuinely just can't no matter how hard I try

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Motorsport-@reddit

Porsche for becoming Ferrari

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Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit

I'm not a fan of Toyota's. Between their funky braking (booster feels like it's 2 stage) and the floor mount accelerator feels like it's in a weird spot. Beyond those two items, the Toyotas I've driven have been decent cars. Currently renting a Camry hybrid on a trip. It's great, minus the gas pedal.

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Tuxedo_Muffin@reddit

Without a doubt, Tesla. Their quality has been bad since pretty much the beginning (Tesla Coupe was actually okay, but it was an electrified Lotus Elise). And the politics are unavailable now unless Elon steps down, or preferably, sells the company. It was a great idea, and it really pushed everyone else to do better. But I think their time has passed. There are better products with much less problematic companies now.

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andrew2018022@reddit

“Sells the company” tells me you know next to nothing about the brand

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Tuxedo_Muffin@reddit

Cool. "Divests himself from the leadership and financial earnings of Tesla." Does that do if for you?

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mega-man-0@reddit

I’m going to say Toyota - even though I still like many of their cars. Why? I absolutely cannot stand their dealers or the fact that their cars are about $3-$5K more than competitive models from Mazda and Subaru. The way that they often limit production to inflate prices and the way dealers add bullshit like nitrogen in the tires drives me mad. They can all F off and die. Secondly, the smug and pretentious Toyota fanboys are THE WORST. I love Regular Car Reviews but often have to skip videos when Mr Regular goes all “Toyota car is best car”. Just stop, there’s a TSB on the new Tacomas transmissions and it’s clear that the turbo V6 in the Tundra is a piece of shit - don’t believe me? Go watch the car Care Nut disassemble one and watch the look of confusion and dissatisfaction in his eyes when he sees how it’s built.

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YaBoiHaydenB@reddit

Ditto on the Jeeps, they have such a cool aesthetic to them & they're pretty capable; I've sworn them off after I got a hand-me-down Jeep Commander that was an unreliable money pit.

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furrynoy96@reddit

I would like the Mustang Mach E if it wasn't called a Mustang

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yesjames@reddit

lancia. because they went bankrupt and because even before they went bankrupt they chose to go fwd. they used to be ferrari + utilitarian.

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dangergypsy@reddit

Audi. Nice cars but their drivers think they own the road.

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ChasedWarrior@reddit

I don't think I hate any brands. If I had to choose it might be Chevrolet. At the bottom of GM's pecking order their vehicles are still cheaply made as ever. Poor quality. Even when they do make a good car it has issues.

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generalright@reddit

Dodge, I love the challenger but they just can’t seem to fuck things up. Last gen challenger looks beautiful but has a garbage interior. New gen charger looks amazing b it has an insane price and garbage powertrain.

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Gman7292005@reddit

Hyundai

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andrew2018022@reddit

Not a specific brand but the mini cooper EV. I wanted to consider it so badly but that range is putrid.

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Key_Election_24@reddit

I don’t hate them but I don’t like mini coopers middle speedometer and giant circle screen.

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HxChris@reddit

I mean I don’t really think being wary of a brand because they have a long-running reputation is hating them.

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MortimerDongle@reddit

Nissan. The new Armada looks like it's actually a really good SUV. The biggest issue with it is that everyone hates Nissan, so it'll lose value far more quickly than all of its competitors

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PinkishOcean430@reddit

So budget for maintenance and upkeep? Life's to short to not buy what you want. Especially if you are hating based off reading/hearsay. Plenty of people own far more unreliable and expensive cars. If it's not a forced purchase (like a jeep) then It's part of its character. I don't hate any brand because of the cars...I do have some hate for their target audience, but that's different.

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