Asrock confirms Ryzen 9000 failures caused by its BIOS settings, offers to fix motherboards | Asrock recommends returning faulty CPUs to AMD or the retailer
Posted by chrisdh79@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 108 comments
TheCookieButter@reddit
I'm just glad my ASRock Motherboard destroyed my 9800x3d within the return for refund window. Returned them both and tried again with MSI+9800x3d.
Would have been pissed if I was stuck in RMA Hell while companies pointed at each other and saying who should replace which part.
AwkwardAd5009@reddit
Hello, i was a victim of this failure too, i paired a Asrock nova x870e with a 9950X and my cpu is now dead within 2 weeks, what MSI mother are you buying?
TheCookieButter@reddit
I bought a B850 Tomahawk Max WiFi. It's been working without issue since I got it.
I had come from a B450 Tomahawk so had some confidence in them already.
__Rosso__@reddit
So let's see, don't buy from AsRock and ASUS.
Any other companies?
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Gigabyte, Biostar, Sapphire when they get into NA again?
randomIndividual21@reddit
How is that legal? You can't make other company to replace what your product damaged. They should replace both the mobo and cpu
pistolpoida@reddit
Depending on the nation it is not. In Australia you can claim damages under our Australian consumer law. And you can choose to make it the motherboard retailers responsibility.
scroll down to compensation for losses caused by failures
Puzzleheaded-Bar9577@reddit
Well they are saying to return it to the retailer. If the CPU and board get replaced I'm not sure there are any damages here.
pistolpoida@reddit
It is not uncommon for people to upgrade their cpu with the ryzen family or people to buy different parts from different retailers
So if you buy the motherboard from retailer an and cpu to retailer b. You can return the motherboard to retailer a and seek replacement for the damaged cpu The motherboard because a it is not acceptable quality and it’s not fit for purpose and cpu because it was damaged buy the motherboard,
What the other person was saying why should cpu retailer be left to fix the cpu when it’s not faulty, it’s damaged and I agree with that. The motherboard retailer is the responsible one sometimes they are one the same, in some cases they are not.
Or they they are saying asrock should deal with it. I was pointing out in Australia our consumer protection the responsibility lies with the retailer not the manufacturer.
Strazdas1@reddit
it is extremely uncommon for people to upgrade their CPU full stop.
pistolpoida@reddit
Usually I would agree but with am4 and now am5 more people are choosing to upgrade their cpu
Strazdas1@reddit
A change between 2% and 3% is still extremely uncommon though. I agree there is more changes now, but still nowhere near enough to be relevant for manufacturers.
Puzzleheaded-Bar9577@reddit
The cpu retailer might fix it because amd and asrock have decided that amd should handle the issue with their warranty service. This is why companies have authorized distributors and retailers, that way when they want to handle an issue this way they can just tell the retailers to accept returns they normally wouldn't.
gaqua@reddit
The only way this could make sense is if the ASRock settings in the BIOS are still within the AMD spec and AMD processors failed anyway.
If ASRock spoke to AMD about this and AMD said "oh shit, yeah....uh...we should totally dial back those specs. So you guys update the BIOS and we'll take care of the CPUs that failed, that's on us."
Jeep-Eep@reddit
It would fit with the higher rate of failure on some batch serials. It could have been within spec for most Zen 5s, but some were... fussy.
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
I guess it depends on where you live. In the UK you would send it all back to whoever you got it from. They would then send it to who they got it from.
fmjintervention@reddit
Yep exactly, depends on how consumer law works wherever you live. Here in Australia it's the same, I'd take the dead chip back to the shop I bought it from and they'd deal with it. Not my problem.
AreYouAWiiizard@reddit
Pretty sure it's not in Australia, since it was defective at time of sale. Just because there's a way to fix it to make it non-defective doesn't mean they can't deny replacements.
No idea what laws in other countries are like though.
Liroku@reddit
Well, it depends. What is the partnership agreement between the two companies? When programming the bios and building out the motherboard they go by AMD designs and requirements that AMD provides them. Was there something missing in the AMD provided information that created this gap?
I don't know much about the issue, but as a blanket statement...companies have a lot of liability for many different reasons. We have no idea what their internal communications or contracts look like so, they may have an agreement to fix this. Asrock may be paying amd for the cpus that are sent in and AMD handles the RMA and repairs rather than create a new middle man of processing.
randomIndividual21@reddit
Thats the only way it make sense but then asrock would and should just say that
dev_vvvvv@reddit
The blame game isn't zero sum, so Asrock would still get blamed for it. It would just torch a relationship with one of their primary business partners (who is probably bending over backwards to help them right now for tanking the blame).
SpoilerAlertHeDied@reddit
ASRock probably doesn't want to outright blame AMD, they have a close partnership and making a statement like that about another company is just bad for everybody's business (not to mention likely can carry serious legal consequences depending on the language used).
Since AMD apparently has absolutely no issue RMA'ing and replacing these chips, that tells me AMD has no problem admitting some of the fault here.
airfryerfuntime@reddit
That's because Asrock is only recommendeding it. They'll still replace a bad board, but till also still probably be faster and easier going through a retailer.
Zalamand3r@reddit
Maybe they just wanna make it easy to the consumer? Shit's broken, return it under warranty and get new parts. ASRock and AMD will deal with the rest.
randomIndividual21@reddit
You can't return the cpu for warranty as its not cover under warranty.
If asrock want to make it easier, they would take both cpu and mobo and just replace both or refund the cpu cost
Zalamand3r@reddit
are they not making it as easy as it can be? Just return eveything where you bought it? I dont get how this is so fucking hard lol.
SJGucky@reddit
In germany you should do that as well. Its the retailer which then sends the CPU to AsRock.
JackSpyder@reddit
Is this considered resolved then with latest bios?
TheOnlyMisty@reddit
Wait so they say they broke the CPUs with their MOBO BIOS and say they will only fix the MOBO? Are they delusional?
Possible-Put8922@reddit
Yeah, I wonder if they will cover the cost of the CPU if they used values unsupported by AMD?
SpoilerAlertHeDied@reddit
I haven't heard a single case of AMD refusing to RMA affected chips, despite the voluminous reports of problematic ASRock boards. That tells me some of these AMD chips, especially from the early production batches, are probably not up to spec and ASRock's original bios was using AMD guidelines.
dfv157@reddit
Or, they just honor the warranty. Through no misuse on the consumers part, the CPU failed.
It also costs AMD like less than $50 per CPU, it's a money printing machine
ButtPlugForPM@reddit
yep it's also investment in the consumer
70usd cpu..
customer says..oh the service was good.i'll make sure i buy them again.
intel would prob ask u to open ur mouth spit in it then walk away
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I suspect it means that it might be the IO die dying and they can recert and reuse the compute chiplets.
H2shampoo@reddit
AMD hasn't "refused" to replace my 9950X3D, they simply refuse to actually ship one to me for the past month. I've seen my local Microcenter restock four times and AMD refuses to prioritize someone who already gave them money over new customers.
Scrimps@reddit
Not how retail works.
When it comes to AMD you purchase it off a regional distributor. Micro center is a regional distributor. Each region might have one or two. There is only one in all of Canada.
These distributors will have very detailed and specific contracts. They will have placed booking orders in 2024 for these CPU's, and AMD does not grant terms. Meaning the products are accounted and paid for prior to them being received.
Moreover, these distributors are the only place the computer shops across America can purchase their AMD products. AMD does not grant direct sales relationships. They work on a distribution/dealer model.
In America, distributors are often allowed to also be retailers. They run both B2B and B2C businesses, and are the sole suppliers for AMD products across the United States.
They are customers much like you. AMD can't break their distribution contracts. Especially when many retails will have taken pre-orders.
The moment AMD products leave manufacturing, they are ALREADY paid for by a customer. These are not "unsold". To AMD they are all sold.
poorlycooked@reddit
The explanation offered by the ASRock representative to the media (TDC/EDC over amperage) also makes zero sense.
If you read AMD's docs on PBO, CPU TDC and EDC are motherboard based limits. They are there to prevent frying the mobo VRMs. Setting these limits to 999 or any arbitrarily large number should not be breaking the CPU in any way or form.
SpoilerAlertHeDied@reddit
ASRock never said they set these values "arbitrarily high", they basically said they pulled back on these limits in the latest BIOS because some AMD chips were not performing up to spec (they literally called some of the AMD chips they have seen 'defective'). It's likely ASRock had the most aggressive PBO tuning, especially on their higher end X870E boards, and it was likely more aggressive then their competitors, while still being in AMD spec.
The fact that AMD hasn't really denied any of these RMA requests, despite alleged "widespread issues with ASRock boards" speaks volumes.
poorlycooked@reddit
My point is TDC/EDC should never break CPUs. These limits protect and only protect the motherboard. People (including ASRock employees) who talk about TDC/EDC in relation to burnt CPUs are either misinformed or dishonest.
SpoilerAlertHeDied@reddit
ASRock could be lowering default TDC/EDC limits because they found defective AMD chips were not protecting themselves in the matter that they should with regards to voltage regulation. Protection is a two way street between the CPU and motherboard, with the CPU responsible for protecting itself from thermal limits.
The statement from AMD really reads to me like "certain AMD chips were found to be defective in terms of protection procedures, so we reduced PBO limits to mitigate for these cases.
I also want to point out that ASUS went through an extremely similar thing at the launch of the 7800x3d, and it looks like it mostly affected only early batch 7800x3d chips (very very very similar to the 9800x3d situation):
https://videocardz.com/newz/redditors-ryzen-7-7800x3d-cpu-burns-out-gamersnexus-immediately-offers-to-buy-it
Again, I think there is a very good reason AMD has absolutely no problem RMA'ing these chips. If anything, ASRock might be exposing a manufacturing flaw with AMD by having these aggressive PBO limits set from the factory.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Which fits with some batches have much higher rates of this sort of infantile failure then others.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
We saw some similar failure modes on some halos from other marques, which likely had similarly aggro failure modes.
Deadman_Wonderland@reddit
I hope AMD actually denies these RMA since it's not their fault ASrock screwed up. Then we'll get some spicy drama
SpoilerAlertHeDied@reddit
Maybe they aren't denying RMA because it is actually AMD's fault? If some production AMD x3d chips are not meeting the specifications that were supplied to ASRock for their bios, then the fault is absolutely with AMD.
crshbndct@reddit
Or, there’s a good chance AMD and Asrock have already worked out a deal behind the scenes, and it’s easier/cheaper/more efficient for AMD to get these chips back and replace them directly. Maybe they have a way to repair them and resell them as a lower specced part.
Maybe they have a way to test what caused the failure and then send the bill to Asrock.
AMD is honoring all these warranty claims, so it’s a moot point anyway.
GhostsinGlass@reddit
This isn't PCMR.
Zalamand3r@reddit
They can only warranty the motherboard. They cannot warranty the CPU because you didn't purchase it from them. You will need to return the CPU to the place where you bought it. If you send the CPU along with the motherboard to ASRock, they will send it back to you so you can return it to the correct place—they cannot process the CPU return for you.
OverlyOptimisticNerd@reddit
This is incorrect. If I crash into your car, I am responsible for it. I can’t tell you, “just return it to Ford, lol.”
If Asrock damaged the CPU, they must make you whole. AIO manufacturers already do this. If their product leaks under warranty, they will replace ever damaged component.
Retail fraud. If you (through Asrock) knowingly damaged the product, that’s not a valid return. Do people do it all the time? Sure. Doesn’t make it right.
Zalamand3r@reddit
ofc not because in this case it's ASRock crashing the car into AMD's car. You're just a passanger.
Zalamand3r@reddit
I'm not arguing with you on that. If my mobo would breaks the cpu, I can return both to the shop and let the retailers and manufaturers deal with it. That's how warranty works here. Shit breaks, I return it and it's not my job to deal with it.
OverlyOptimisticNerd@reddit
That’s retail fraud if you return a broken device that you know the cause of the break, and it wasn’t the manufacturer’s fault.
Warranty is for the manufacturer to correct THEIR defect. It’s not to correct another defect.
AHrubik@reddit
Why would AMD warranty a CPU that was damaged by faulty ASRock bios settings? ASRock caused the damage and they are liable for that damage.
Zalamand3r@reddit
if you bought it from AMD you return it to them. If you bought it from some retailer, you return it to there.
AHrubik@reddit
That's not how liability works.
Zalamand3r@reddit
Well maybe you can email to Asrock and Techspot about how the liability works and I'm sure they'll fix it. I'm just repeating what the article says. "Asrock recommends returning faulty CPUs to AMD or the retailer".
QuadraKev_@reddit
I'm sure some lawyers might if they refuse to replace dead CPUs
FishingElectrician@reddit
But the cpu isn’t “faulty” it was damaged same as if you ripped the pins off an AM3 cpu
Zalamand3r@reddit
What? No. If you manage rip the cpu pins off it's your fault. If the mobo breaks it, it's warranty.
tcptomato@reddit
Please stop.
Zalamand3r@reddit
I'm honestly asking if I'm missing something? If the MOBO breaks the CPU it's warranty right? If you somehow rip off some pins, that's on you. Maybe you can warranty it, maybe not.
CookiieMoonsta@reddit
Yes, it is. Happened to me before, got CPU replaced under warranty no problem.
pendelhaven@reddit
Tomato is right. A warranty only guarantees you a replacement or foc repair when their product fails within the warranty period. However, It does not extend to third party damage.
tcptomato@reddit
No, warranty isn't some magic it doesn't work so I get a new one hack. Warranty is you get a new one under specific circumstances. And someone else breaking it isn't one of those.
UnPlugged_Toaster@reddit
The part that did the damage is confirmed the motherboard. When a part in an overall system, not just computers, damages other parts in the system, the liability falls on the manufacturer who provided the faulty part.
If you a house that’s brand new. You bought new appliances and one of those is a toaster. If that toaster erroneously catches fire and damages other parts of your house, who do you file a claim against? You’re not going to go after the builder or your fridge? No, you go after the manufacturer of the toaster because it was faulty.
Asrock provided faulty motherboards that killed cpus. To save money, they are asking customers to pursue replacements through amd, but Amds cpus had no issues. For a lot of these parts, running it out of spec, overlocking, etc, voids warranty immediately. Why does the liability falls on amd when it’s the motherboard running the processor out of spec.
When things like this happen, it’s up to the manufacturer of the faulty part to replace all damaged components themselves. When your psu dies, it can damage other components and that psu manufacturer will replace those components if outlined in the warranty.
Gas stations that accidentally fill gas with diesel are liable for all damages to everyone’s vehicle that filled up because it’s negligence. This is no different, liability falls upon the negligent manufacturer/supplier.
Zalamand3r@reddit
I'm sure Asrock will pay for the faulty CPU's eventually. But all they are saying is that if your CPU is broken, you return it to the place you bought it under warranty. They'll just make it easy to the consumer. Return it to the place you bought it. Get new one under warranty. Done. Asrock and AMD will deal with the rest.
AHrubik@reddit
I hope you understand that doing so is fraud. Depending on the value of the product in question that could be felony fraud too.
Zalamand3r@reddit
IDK what kinda 3rd world country would charge you with felony fraud for returning broken parts under warranty, but if my mobo breaks my cpu all I need to do is return them to the shop and they'll give me new parts.
AHrubik@reddit
Of course they do. They want AMD to pay for the damages they caused. AMD will likely not be as eager.
Zalamand3r@reddit
You know you can buy processors straight from AMD right? They have a shop on the internet. So if you bought in straight from AMD you return it to them. If you bought it from Microcenter or whatever, you return it to there. I don't know how can I make this any more clear.
AHrubik@reddit
You don't seem to understand. It doesn't matter where it was purchased only WHO caused the damage. AMD's product warranty only covers problems that AMD causes. It does not cover End User error nor does it cover the damage caused by other companies such as ASRock.
You're being clear with your words but you don't seem to understand what you're talking about.
Zalamand3r@reddit
But because Asrock says that all you have to do warranty the CPU to the place you bought it, I would think that Asrock and AMD has contract or something in place that Asrock will eventually pay for the damages or whatever to AMD because they caused it. But they'll just make it easy for us consumers to just warranty the broken parts, get new fresh parts in and that's it. How does it works between Asrock and AMD on like corporate lawyer-level, idk.
AHrubik@reddit
First things first. ASRock has no legal standing to speak for AMD. If the damage was indeed caused by faulty BIOS settings coded by ASRock then ASRock is responsible for the damage and liable to fix it at their expense. That's how warranty liability law works.
You should stop making assumptions based on what ASRock says. They have a financial interest in getting AMD to cover the damaged CPUs.
Zalamand3r@reddit
Yea they are responsible for the damage and will fix it at their expense. But they'll make it easy to us consumers to just return the broken part to the place we bought them and they will deal with the rest.
AHrubik@reddit
Returning a product for warranty replacement outside of the warranty terms is fraud. Depending on the value of the CPU it could be felony fraud. Unless AMD comes forward and says it will honor warranty replacements for ASRock's damage then that is not how this should be handled. ASRock should facilitate the CPU replacements for customers at their expense.
Advising customers commit fraud is not a good look for ASRock.
uhh186@reddit
Regardless of how you feel about it, AMD and ASRock clearly have a good relationship and understand that it is actually a joint issue rather than ASRock only. ASRock said that they were pushing the settings to the limits provided by AMD and it turned out that those limits were a little too loose. Other mobo mfg were probably more squarely in the center of the range provided by AMD whereas ASRock was trying to squeeze out a little extra performance and it turned out that was a mistake.
Your personal feelings about the situation are pretty useless, AMD clearly has no issue replacing the defective CPUs because they have been replacing every dead CPU thus far without a single word of resistance.
AHrubik@reddit
This is meaningless.
"Asrock has gone on record to confirm that it is solely responsible for the more than 108 Ryzen 9000 chips that have failed in the company's motherboards. An executive confirmed that the problem relates to Asrock's BIOS settings, and that it isn't an AMD issue. "
https://archive.ph/1OHY6
I have no feelings on the topic one way or another.
uhh186@reddit
Yes,it's ASRock's fault for choosing to put the settings where they did, so it's their fault. but they were still within the operating limits of AMD. It really isn't that hard to understand. They're not going to dump the blame on AMD and torch their relationship, they're going to take responsibility for their own choices. But it is not their job to replace CPUs. nor is it your decision to make for them. AMD wants the CPUs back and will replace them, so ASRock is telling affected customers to send them to them.
ConcaveNips@reddit
Are you implying they should also fix the cpu that they didn't manufacture?
Forsaken_Ad242@reddit
No he’s implying they should offer funds to replace the faulty chips they broke with their messed up BIOS
dam0_0@reddit
What a time for anyone looking to upgrade/buy their pc.
On one hand we have melting GPUs and on the other burning CPUs.
andreas_jovine@reddit
Fr mate, I just bought a build with a 9800x3d and an AsRock mobo, and now I'm reading this....
GhostsinGlass@reddit
From a user in the failure megathread
This is just one model the X870-E from Asus.
It happens on ASUS as well and if you read my comments yesterday you'd know I'm very much pro-ASUS as it's my top brand for flagship boards and I think their UEFI is second to none, I'm currently using a Z790 Maximus DH myself.
I don't think this is so cut and dry as "ASRock bad", I believe "ASRock fucked up and that's bad" is much more apt because again this issue isn't just theirs alone. Though it seems statistically you're more likely to experience it on ASRock boards.
moochs@reddit
I have a serious feeling that this is actually more an AMD problem, and people aren't willing to dig deeper to expose it. The early Ryzen 3000 series (Zen 2) chips had awful failure rates -- I alone had to RMA three separate chips from that series for failing within the 3 year warranty period. Most starting bluescreening at idle, the telltale sign of silicon degradation.
If this is more of that, or worse, then the problem needs to be exposed. Intel Raptor Lake had similar issues, and it would be good if AMD got to the bottom of this before the wheels fall off.
CoUsT@reddit
Also 1st gen segfault defect.
There were many issues with CPUs in the past and there probably will be more in future. It's not always mobo and it's not always CPU manufacturers but the fact is that CPUs fail and at this point nobody knows EXACTLY why.
GhostsinGlass@reddit
I don't think I personally would classify it as an AMD problem but I'd say it veers into the course of the same problems we've experienced on Intel as well over the years.
CPU manufacturers gives the guidelines on what motherboard manufacturers are supposed to work within. At times with specifications that are supposed to be intended for MAXIMUMS for BRIEF periods of time and only as errant events.
Motherboard manufacturers: "Surely these wax wings will help me reach the sun"
Then a tale as old as time, both point the finger at the other when something goes wrong until the truth finally comes out in the wash.
The disconnect between CPU manufacturer and motherboard manufacturers coupled with the benchmark arms race is always going to be a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
moochs@reddit
Right, I mean that the problem is that AMD isn't clamping down on standards by their board partners. This is exactly what happened with Intel, and it became a widespread controversy. AMD needs to assert more assurance standards such that every board partner is within spec.
THAT SAID, there's a real possibility that the silicon is being pushed too hard, regardless. Even in spec, early death failures are all too common. My Zen 2 example is one of those cases.
FilteringAccount123@reddit
Without manually tuning your fan curve, [intended] default behavior of the 9800X3d is to hit and run at TJ max... I wouldn't be surprised if that's causing problems, with basically no margin of error lol
MadShartigan@reddit
There's PBO with AGESA limits or PBO with motherboard limits. Guess which one the youtubers recommend for maximum performance?
Seems to me that motherboard limits is for when I want to push the CPU to the point it will fry. That's a suicide overclock just for scoring points.
GhostsinGlass@reddit
The same youtubers who were telling people to disable CEP on Intel CPUs while not being able to explain to their viewers what CEP actually is, not that I want to open that can of worms again.
GhostsinGlass@reddit
Oh my mistake, yes you're absolutely right about AMD needing to to get on the trolley with being firm on these guidelines.
Pushed beyond spec by the CPU manufacturer was a big theory originally about why Raptor Lake was so problematic and I was on board that train of thought myself but it seems the numerous mitigations Intel has implemented has actually addressed their problems as my RMA'd 14900KS hasn't missed a beat and I still feed it a hot supper for benchmarking, so my apologies to Intel there.
I hear you on the firmer guiderails from CPU manufacturers, I think that's been called for by quite a few over the years for sure.
Astigi@reddit
Asrock has the responsibility to replace the CPUs they damaged
kikimaru024@reddit
And yet this sub has the audacity to say Tech Yes City was a fraud for reporting this first.
Y'all are a goddamn hive of stupid sometimes.
megablue@reddit
well, the only complication is, not every shop will honor that, regardless of what Asrock said.
Psigun@reddit
108? That is an incredibly low ball estimate.
breakzyx@reddit
Not to be that guy, but after infinite issued with my asrock mobo at athlon times i said never again. That board was a genuine nightmare, but that actually tops it. Im happy for everyone that has no issues with asrock, but this does heavily play into my bias against them.
its_a_metaphor_fool@reddit
Loving my ASRock 9070xt at the moment, but that'll probably be the first and last thing I buy from them after this. That's nuts, basically encouraging their customers to commit return fraud to AMD
ob_knoxious@reddit
I have a B450 ASRock motherboard that I use every day and it has been phenomenal, really good value for features back when it came out. Would have kept buying from them for a future build but likely would look for other manufacturers now.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Yep, so much for recommending Steel Legends. Hopefully the Reapers and such come down, this is slimy stuff.
ray_fucking_purchase@reddit
Incoming GN rage video any minute.
GhostsinGlass@reddit
TechSpots source on this is a GN video.
Are you ok?
eRaZze_W@reddit
I don't have Asrock but does disabling PBO in BIOS help with this? Still worried
advester@reddit
Meanwhile AMD will probably be like, "you turned on PBO, you have no warranty"
GhostsinGlass@reddit
Or a piece of software allegedly turned on PBO itself while the UEFI states PBO is disabled, That's a spicy walnut that's become a topic of conversation.
moochs@reddit
It's a bit concerning that the CPUs are dying so quickly, even with the elevated voltages. The voltages, as I've seen measured in other reviews of the issue, are high, but not THAT high. I wonder if this silicon will suffer early death/instability issues like many of the early 3xxx series processors did.
ficiek@reddit
Asrock has been on my blacklist for quite a while now, I'm glad to be proven right.
Scary-South-417@reddit
I don't see this ending well for asrock
Oscarcharliezulu@reddit
Good work by the lads bringing this up with Asrock
Tontors@reddit
Will AMD even cover these since they are only "defective" in Asrock mobos?