Where Balšićs Serbs or Albanians ? And if they were Albanians, why did Albanians take on slavic last names?
Posted by Discipline_Cautious1@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 150 comments
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Balša I was probably of Albanian origin. Given name 'Balša' is present mostly in Montenegro and it does not have any Slavic meaning to it. They probably took -ić because of alliances, marriages, religion and because they were politically aligned with Serbian feudal framework.
Discipline_Cautious1@reddit (OP)
Thats why I am wondering. I think this is a good explanation, I was also wondering how common where slavic last names among Albanins.
https://www.poreklo.rs/2020/09/28/poreklo-prezimena-selo-malisevo-gnjilane/?script=lat
-Spahiović (23 k.) i:
-Durak (40 k.), od fisa Beriš;
-Redžović (15 k.), od fisa Beriš;
Or were Slavs part of Clans ( fis ) in Albania.
Odd-Independent7679@reddit
Spahi, Durak, and Rexh are all Turkish names. Why would you think they are Slavic?
HumanMan00@reddit
That doesnt make sense if Balšići were such a respected noble family in the middle ages.
U underestimate how families form in the Balkan. Crossmariage unites families and most of the time they go one way or the other depending on whats the domianant ethnic group where they live once conflict arises.
One Šop grampa said when asked if he is Serbian or Bulgarian: Depends on who's army is asking.
Odd-Independent7679@reddit
First, my above comment had nothing to do with the Balsha family.
Second, Bulgarian and Serbian might have been interchangable, but not Serbian and Albanian.
As for the Balsha family: "In medieval Serbian documents the Balšas are referred to as "Arbanas lords".[19] The well-known Bulgarian biographer of the 15th century, Constantine the Philosopher, who lived in the court of the Serbian ruler Stefan Lazarević, refers to Đurađ II Balšić and Balša III as Albanian lords. Historical sources from Ragusa document the Albanian ethnic affiliation of the Balša family, mentioning "the Albanian customs of the Balša".[20] In the funds of the Ragusan archives the Balšićs are one of the extremely present Arbanon families.[21] Furthermore, the Ottomans referred to Đurađ II Balšić as "ruler of Albanian Shkodra". Also the Hungarian king Sigismund, when he met him personally in 1396, called him "ruler of Albania".[20] One contemporary archival source in Vienna Archives mentions Balša II as "ruler of Albanians" during the Battle of Kosovo 1389."
HumanMan00@reddit
Ohhhh sorry u r one of those people.
My bad i thought we could have a conversation.
Good day to you.
Odd-Independent7679@reddit
One of those who doesn't care about political correctness but cares about truth. Yes, I am.
You have to be on topic to be able to converse about it. My comment was a response to OP claiming Durak, Rexh and Spahi were Slavic names.
She was talking about Sandzak Bosniaks who have Albanian/Turkish names and still know their Albanian tribe and place of origin. However, they claim those are Slavic. They rather call the Berisha tribe a Slavic one, than accept that they once had Albanian origin.
NoInfluence5747@reddit
Slavicized last names are somewhat common, especially on Albanians living in slavic territories where the spelling of the name has an "ic" or "vic" added on top of the last name.
There's ambiguity because a lot of the last names are just "son of (name)", so in Albanian a last name like "Nikola" easily becomes "Nikolic".
Here's a few examples of Albanian last names slavicized that a Slavic person wouldn't think of as Albanian. Just of the top of my head:
Leka -> Lekic / Lekovic Deda -> Dedic / Dedovic Gega -> Gegic / Gegovic Bala -> Balic Gashi -> Gasic
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Exactly, it's a pretty common practice. There's a lot of misconception between Albanian and Bosniak surnames in the Sandžak area as well.
OODNflow@reddit
There is an interesting detail that might be getting overlooked. Specifically we are talking about a noble family which ruled after the fall of the Serbian Empire. I think it is well documented mostly by the catholic church that during Stefan Dusan’s rule there was an aggressive campaign of assimilating the balkan populations that he conquered and that would include conversions but not of the faith but rather religious loyalty specifically to the Serbian orthodox church.
If you were catholic or generally orthodox this wasn’t enough but you had to be brought into the Serbian church explicitly. Ofc here we know that baptisms and change of names would follow.
I do wonder however why is it such a big taboo for Albanians and Serbs to share heritage together and I do feel like its more on the Serbian side. Like serbs somehow will share heritage with the entirety of the balkans including greeks but then as soon as it appears that there might have been points of contact with Albanians or even jointly shared historical figures everyone gets overly aggressive and nationalistic.
Single-Share-2275@reddit
This doesn't align with their nationalistic narrative around their myths from middle age up until now.
HumanMan00@reddit
It actually does but both like to play the victim soooo.
albardha@reddit
The answer really depends on how they saw themselves and what time.
Let’s explain the easy part first, the last name: they are known as Balsha(/j) among Albanians, not Balšić. Albanian did not have a standard written language until the 20th century, but those few examples of this time period we have it is enough for us to know that it was very common the spelling of personal names to change depending on which language they were written in, so that alone doesn’t tell us much about ethnicity. This wasn’t an Albanian-only practice either, think about how Polish scientist Mikołaj Kopernik was known as Niklas Koppernigk in German and Nicolaus Copernicus in Latin.
Second part is more difficult to explain but bear with me. Ethnicity used to be a lot more fluid in the past, with people in some areas even identifying with multiple ethnicities at the same time. The strict single-ethnicity thing in the Balkans became more common after the 19th century with the era of nationalism, when it became important to groups to identify themselves on what they valued the most at the time.
Montenegro as a region is actually pretty notorious for this fluid identity, take for example Kuči clan. There is research for them enough to say they were originally an Albanian clan that came to identify as Montenegrins and Serbs over time. Culturally, Montenegro has always been Albanian/Serbian contact zone and as such, people have identified as either Albanian, or Serbian, or Montenegrin whenever they felt like more Albanian, or more Serbian, or more Montenegrin.
Balšić/Balshaj are an example of this too. There were time periods that they identified as Albanians, and even Serbian documents identify them as Arbanasi, and then there are also documents where their Slavic identity is not questioned at all. If we try to understand people of the Middle Ages using ethnic criteria developed after the 19th century, we are completely missing the point.
Prendush@reddit
Jashtë temës: nuk e marr vesh se përse mbiemrit Balsha shkruhet Balshaj në Wikipedia? A ka një arsye historike, apo thjesht për standardizimin e sotshëm?
albardha@reddit
Standardization, plus the general assumption that -aj last names are common in that particular region.
OzbiljanCojk@reddit
Smart people were flexible about their ethnicity even in 20th century. (as long as its ethical still)
Ivo Andrić - serb croat from bosnia
Branislav Nušić - vlach, but took serb and bosnian muslim name
neljudskiresursi@reddit
Nice to see there are still well read people here.
Speaking of the first point, Lithuanians still spell foreign names in their own manner, by adding -us to the end of a name. Always funny to see it when some Balkan sports team goes there to play a game and teams are presented on graphic during pre-game.
Arh1sekta@reddit
But they were part of Serbian royal nobility, and recognized as such. Pushing them as Balsha and all caveats (Zeta as an Albanian principality etc) is going to lead to more internet wars. You guys are pushing agendas left and right on the internet and it's not even funny anymore.
What I said does not refer to your own post/take on the matter though.
birgor@reddit
I follow this sub for it's excellent content. It always amazes me that this is by far the most civil European sub-region subreddit of them all.
This post is a great example of this, very good answer.
Stefanthro@reddit
I wonder if etymology of the name could help uncover its origins - though your post highlights really well why the origins don’t really matter, in a way
IAMTHAT9@reddit
Prefect answer
Avicii011@reddit
Wikipedia on Kuči isn't reliable tho. There is currently an open discussion there on if it needs to be removed because the soruces are weak.
The most common theory currently in Kuči is that when the Slavs arrived there, it was inhabited by the Vlachs. Some were killed/displaced and some were assimilated. Couple of hundreds of years later, with the Ottomans arriving and in the following years, lots of Catholic Albanians run away from them to the mountains up north - Kuči.
You are right about how understanding it today is impossible. We have troubles understanding things from recent history years ago, let alone hundreds and hudnreds of years ago.
AllMightAb@reddit
From Wikipedia
A Franciscan report of the 17th century illustrates the final stages of their acculturation. Its author writes that the Bratonožići, Piperi, Bjelopavlići and Kuči:
nulla di meno essegno quasi tutti del rito serviano, e di lingua Illrica ponno piu presto dirsi Schiavoni, ch' Albanesi Since almost all of them use the Serbian rite and the Illyrian (South Slavic) language, soon they should be called Slavs, rather than Albanians.
Avicii011@reddit
My statement was that wikipedia is unreliable. Your entire comment is a wikipedia source. Wikipedia can be edited by users and often has very weak sources, thus making it perfect for history claiming, which both Albanians and Serbs love more than anything.
I wont be replying anymore to this. As far as I'm concerned, keep arguing whether Kuči are Albanian or Serbian (hint: we're neither), I'm okay with it.
AllMightAb@reddit
The source in Wikipedia is citing a 17th century Franciscan document. If a document from the 17th century is unreliable i dont know what is.
Emotional-Ice-111@reddit
A significant portion of Kuci(more - precisely, the Novo-Kuci branch) is of Albanian origin, as genetics suggests. The manipulation happens when Albanians claim every single E-V13. The subclade in Herzegovina, among the Vasojevici etc. is separate from the Albanian one for 5000 years. In any case, even the Novo-Kuci have been Serbs for centuries.
AllMightAb@reddit
The Catholic Kuçi and Muslim converts identify as Albanian.
If any Orthodox Kuçi still knows Albanian I'd be happy to take them to the Albanian Orthodox Church in Tirana so they can get to know their culture.
Discipline_Cautious1@reddit (OP)
Great answer
consistent__bug@reddit
I'm sure Kuchi are glad to hear what you wrote. I can just imagine what they think of you now
vaskopopa@reddit
I can’t upvote this answer more. This answers the question completely and accurately.
Deep_Maintenance_734@reddit
This
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Good explanation, well done.
nikibg26@reddit
Daily dose of Albos delusions believing in pseudo history. The next question will be were Balšić family Illyrians???
JonGhost1234@reddit
If we are talking about delusion, check the articles about Albanians in the Serbian version of Wikipedia. Albanians are literally described there as an ancient serbian tribe 😂
nikibg26@reddit
Lol, you really believe someone from Serbia would even want to Serbinize Albanians? Why don't you post them?
JimbosBalls@reddit
Oh the serbian superiority complex, please continue like this, it's doing you folks a good favor.
OODNflow@reddit
Yes we believe and have this documented from the times of stefan Dusan !
nikibg26@reddit
Sure, post your references.
OODNflow@reddit
You want me to post a reference that the sky is blue ?
jesushatedbacon@reddit
You wouldn't know how to make bread without Albanians living in Belgrade. Your people would revert to mud poop cakes.
nikibg26@reddit
You mean specialized types of bread with pharmaceuticals?
jesushatedbacon@reddit
Where there's demand...
AllMightAb@reddit
Modern Western Scholars considering them Albanian is pseudo-history.
nikibg26@reddit
Yes, certain western scholars claimed Barbarians who occupied Rome led by Odoacer in 476 A.D. were refugees?!
Do you want me to post references?
AllMightAb@reddit
Your own medieval documentation reference them as Albanian. (Arbanas)
nikibg26@reddit
Lolololololo
Arbanas means slavic people living in northern parts of modern day Albania. Skadar was the capital of the medieval Serbian Svevladovoći, Svetimirovići families. Do some research before typing pseudo history.
Modern day Albanians were not even related to the meaning of Arbanases.
Emperor Dušan was crowned as Emperor of Serbs, Bosnians, Greeks, Arbanases. That was referenced to the territories the dynasty controlled and not to the ethnic structure of the empire as the nationalities are becoming a way of identifying social groups in the 19th century.
rydolf_shabe@reddit
Explain Arbanas Albanians in Croatia, since you said modern day Albania, im pretty sure that the area near Zadar is not considered modern day Albania.
tony_tony_tony_tony@reddit
Also the Arbereshe community in Italy. These serbs are hopeless
rydolf_shabe@reddit
just as i told someone else here i just dont get this behavior
they have their own rich history with great figures and events i see no reason to try and take from others, to me thats just disrespectful to their own history
AllMightAb@reddit
They are idiots. A Serb is trying to convice my Pjeter Bogdani isnt Albanian in this thread. Completely hopeless.
rydolf_shabe@reddit
at this point im just curious to hear his argument out
AllMightAb@reddit
Jesus Christ and you accuse us of pseudo-history. You people are hopeless.
nikibg26@reddit
Lolololololo
A guy claims nationalities exist in mediaval times.
InfinitePractice9014@reddit
Arbanas was a medieval sebrian ethnic designation for albanians, stop this BS!!
_Nem0_@reddit
Post’s topic aside, no peoples in the Balkans are as delusional as serbs.
nikibg26@reddit
Yes bro, that's true. Serbs in the 20th century believed in brotherhood and humanity in the Balkans. Today's generations are not delulus and are knowing precisely who genocided them.
_Nem0_@reddit
Are you referring to serbs when you say genocided? Because if you are then holy shit man that’s sad.
nikibg26@reddit
No, we don't believe in pseudo facts like Albos do.
Those are the Croats, Albos, Bosniak muslims, Bulgarians.
_Nem0_@reddit
Sure bro, as if you didn’t actually genocide Croats, Bosnians and “aLbOs” 30 years ago 😭👍 yall just can’t let go of the victim mentality. You literally made yourself into arguably the most hated nation in Europe second only to maybe russians at this point and you still somehow want to convince yourselves you’re above the rest or somehow better in any way. But sure, everyone is delusional but you ✌️
nikibg26@reddit
You really think someone gives a fuck about your comments?
_Nem0_@reddit
You clearly do since you replied up to this point lol, either way you just keep proving you’re all about that victim mentality anyway with you getting all pissy about it.
nikibg26@reddit
Ok, believe in Santa Claus if you want to. 😂
_Nem0_@reddit
Coping hard I see 💪
tiranazero@reddit
what in the fuck are you talking about dummy, OP is Bosnian, fucking retard, as if Serbs arent balls deep in pseudo history that whole retarded subreddit of yours is like entering alternative reality when it comes history.
-Against-All-Gods-@reddit
Are Windsors Germans or British?
jebac_keve_finalboss@reddit
I think that they were Albanian in origin that quickly got Serbianised and intermarried with other Serbian nobility.
riquelm@reddit
They were French, but also Montenegrin dynasty. There is still a place in Montenegro named after them.
Lipa2014@reddit
There is a village called Balsha in Bulgaria with a 14-century church, so it is older than that.
red-panda-returns@reddit
Aah the big clusterfuck that created today balkans 😅 always interesting and very confusing history. There is a lot behind of this and a lot of factors matter. Let skip a big chunk and get directly to the major part. Gonna make it short.
The balsha tribe most likely didn't see themself as national albanian or serb, they were a tribe like a lot of others and were called balsha or balsic matter who spoke in what language. Until lets say around 1500 when people started to convert to islam a division started between people. The sense of nationaility were in this time already present but not like today since religion was the much bigger factor. And much like with many tribes from all nationalitys they started to divide in religion. When the sense of nationality overweighted religion like mostly today, the division already happened. And you can imagine that divisions happened within tribes aswell and people fought their own tribes. The arvanites and albanians are a perfect example of same ethnic fighting because of religion. Yea thats just one of thousand similar cases. Balkans lovely clusterfuck.
Aleksandar_Z@reddit
Albanians making up history more and more every day. You try and argue and they just make more shit up. But on the other hand they have the lowest IQ in whole of Europe, the gorilla Coco has more than the average albanian lol, so no point really.
Aleksandar_Z@reddit
You have beef with all of your closest neighbours about your ‘history’. Somehow all of your historical figures are part of other countries history but they are somehow albanian by a recent studies from albanian historians. Every single one is controversial. Even Kosovo dispute. So you can down vote if it helps you cope. But the fact is there is very little to none real albanian people that gave something to humanity. No albanian inventions, no heritage and wherever you go, there are drugs and violent crimes. But you are all very patriotic while never being in albania
Observe_Report_@reddit
You have Mongol blood, that’s why Serbs are so hell bent on assimilation. Genghis is still breathing inside of you. Sad that your brethren raped Slavic women in Bosnia with that intent, a stain on your people.
IhateTacoTuesdays@reddit
Albanins in this thread: yeah they were most likely albanians in origin but came to identify as serbs
Serbs: JAHAAHJJOHOH IVAN IVAN ILLYOOORIANS TALKING Again HOHOHOH ILLOOORIAAA
My god.
Arh1sekta@reddit
shut up
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
2025 still having this type of conversations in this sub
Arh1sekta@reddit
Albanian national upising is in full swing, so Balšić are definitely albanians nowadays. Back then, they weren't.
AllMightAb@reddit
Majority of modern scholars consider them to be of Albanian origin.
Albanians had Slavic names because the majority of Albanians during this time period were Orthodox Christian. Orthodox Churches were administrated in Serbian, Bulgarian and Greek language where Albanians lived. The Albanian language was not connected to Church administration. So Orthodox Albanians were baptized with Slavic and Greek names. Its not just Balshaj, all Albanian noble families had these types of names. "Voisava" Arianiti, "Vrana" Konti, Mois "Golemi", "Konstandin" Kastrioti etc etc.
For the Balshaj, they become more and more integrated in the Serb world and claimed descendants from Nemanjic if iam not mistaken to bolster their own territorial claims and prestige, but this was done for political reasons.
They are the only Noble family Albanians and Serbs both claim. Serb nationalists claim Skanderbeg but official Serb histography does not claim the Kastrioti as Serbian.
Discipline_Cautious1@reddit (OP)
I was readin on Austro Hungary and noticed that south path of it was monte negro. And that part was never in Monte negro posession but Venetian Albania. Was wondering if most of those people were actually Ilirans that Serbian Orthodox church concured, but then again Albanians have also Orthodox churches.
The confusing part is that some Albanians chose slavic last names. So my question is if it was recorded as some kind of appeasement or people didn´t care.
AllMightAb@reddit
Serbs had their own independent Orthodox Church and their own empire, they were far more influencial than Albanians. Meaning Serbian was a language connected to the Church. Albanian language was considered a "peasant" language and was not connected to any Church which is where literacy came from.
Naturally Orthodox Albanians had these type of names because it was connected to religion. Its the same way how Turkish and Arabian naming is connected to Islam. Once Albanians converted to Islam they took names like Ahmet, Mehmet etc. Orthodox Albanians had names like Vrana, Voisava, Stanisha etc, even Catholic Albanians to a degree like Albanian Catholic priest Pjeter Bogdani. Bogdani is Slavic.
So trying to claim Pjeter Bogdani as a Serb because his last name is Bogdan is absurd since he wrote books in Albanian and called himself a Shqiptar.
CakiGM@reddit
Pjeter Bogdani himself claimed to be directed descendant of Jug Bogdan who's actual name was Vratko Nemanjić, descendant of Prince Vukan Nemanjić
Odd-Independent7679@reddit
Which leads me to believe, that like the Hunyadi, Nemanjic were also native and closer to Albanians genetically than to Slavs.
CakiGM@reddit
0/10 rage bait
AllMightAb@reddit
Which source says this ?
CakiGM@reddit
Sources given: source 1 source 2
AllMightAb@reddit
That's Serbian wikipedia translated and its bullshit.
CakiGM@reddit
I gave you English Wikipedia as sources
AllMightAb@reddit
No where in the English wikipedia does it say that
CakiGM@reddit
Example where it does
AllMightAb@reddit
Bogdani is a Slavic name, no one is disputing that. Albanians had Slavic names/last names in the medieval era, this is normal. No where in the English Wikipedia does it state that Pjeter Bogdani himself said he descended from Ljutic. The source you provided was a translation of the serb wikipedia and completely false.
AllMightAb@reddit
Big_Beast2236@reddit
And source of that is? Any link?
My sources are from English Wikipedia through, you may like it or not, but his family probably is at least paternally of Slavic origin (Serbian, Bulgarian or any other), there is no point in denying it as it changes nothing, one's distant origins doesn't change what they are, in case of Pjetër Bogdani, an Albanian Catholic Priest and writer of Albanian literature.
AllMightAb@reddit
No it is not, Pjeter Bogdani never claimed he was the descendant Ljutic Bogdan in his book, that is easily verifiable that claim you sent is propaganda pseudo-history and wrong. Its just straight up false, not debatable.
You can type all the pseudo-history you want, but naming in the medieval ages does not equal ethnicity, the best you can do is spout shit to serbinize history
Big_Beast2236@reddit
And still no source from your side
Odd-Independent7679@reddit
Moreover, did you realize that many Bosniaks have Turkish or Arabic names? Albanians sometimes had/have Slavic names for the same reason.
Odd-Independent7679@reddit
Their names were never Balsic. It's Balsha. And it's Albanian. This is how it was originally written in hiatoric documents:
Balša – Serbian – ca. 1360s–1421
Balsa – Latin – 1360s–15th century
Balscia – Latin – 14th–15th century
Balsia – Latin – 14th–15th century
Balsa – Greek – 1370s–early 15th century
Valsa – Greek – 1370s–early 15th century
Balsha – Ottoman – Late 15th–16th century
InfinitePractice9014@reddit
Modern albanian orthodox church is centered in southern Albania tied to greek byzantine one. During medieval times in northern Albania there was also the serbian church that influenced especially nobilty. Many local rulers for political reasons adhered to serbian church, remember that there was also Dushans empire were local albanian rulers were vasals.
vllaznia35@reddit
Venetian Albania was called like that since when it included Albanian territories. The Venetians didn't bother to change the name when they lost them, or left it as a sign that they still claimed those territories.
starshootersupreme@reddit
Why not both?
Ok_Detail_1@reddit
Lol. Tesla can not be both and Balša can...
Royal-Past-3842@reddit
In medieval documents they were described as Albanians
SamoMastika@reddit
I never heard someone dispute that they were serbian nobility.
Discipline_Cautious1@reddit (OP)
https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%88%D0%B8%D1%9B%D0%B8
AllMightAb@reddit
They are even called Arbanasi in Serb medieval documentation. Majority of modern western scholars consider them Albanian in origin, like Swiss Historian Oliver Schmitt. Serbs will be delusional Serbs tho
Bilbolbu@reddit
Utter bullshit
AllMightAb@reddit
This can be proven with a simple google search Jesus Christ
Bilbolbu@reddit
Go ahead, post a source. I'm waiting.
rydolf_shabe@reddit
Nations did not exist as such in the medieval period, and ethnicity had different characteristics than today. The claim that the Balšić family was an Albanian (or Arbanasi) feudal noble house is untenable for formal reasons - because, at that time, there was no Albanian feudal monarchy to whose nobility they would have belonged. 1. Un Unlike the short-lived Principality of Arbanon, the Serbian empire did exist at the time when the Balšić family rose to prominence and acquired its status. In addition to the name Balša (sometimes transliterated Balsha), as evidence of his ethnicity, there is the express statement that Despot Stefan, on his return from Constantino- express ple and the war with the Tatars, stopped "at Arbanasi" to visit his brother-in-law Đurad, the "Arbanasi" lord. К. Филозоф, Повест о Словима и Житије деспота Стефана Лазаревића, Beorpan, 1989, 97; S. Cirković, Tradition interchanged: Albanians in the serbian, Serbs in the albanian late medieval texts, Ot A ßavot oto Mɛoatwva / The mediaeval Albanians, ed. by C. Gasparis, Athens, 1998, 202.
Full Pdf
Ćirković 2020, pp. 396–397: "U tom svetlu ja ne mogu osporavati albanskim istoričarima da se bave Balšićima, koji su očigledno neslovenskog porekla, koji su u svim periodima gospodarili i delovima nesumnjivo albanske teritorije, i koje su srpski srednjovekovni izvori nazivali “arbanaškom gospodom”." transl. ["In this light, I cannot challenge Albanian historians to deal with the Balšićs, who are obviously of non-Slavic origin, who in all periods ruled over parts of undoubtedly Albanian territory, and whom Serbian medieval sources called “Albanian lords”."]
Bilbolbu@reddit
Where? In which medieval document? And even then ''at Arbanasi'' and ''Arbanasi lord'' has no ethnic connotation in this context - ''at Arbanasi'' means Albanian lands and ''Arbanasi lord'' means he ruled over Albanians, which is correct since the Balšić family ruled over Albanian-populated lands.
rydolf_shabe@reddit
In the “Biography of Stefan Lazarevic” of the 15th century Slavic chronicler Constantine of Kostenets, (best known as Constantine the Philosopher), published in (Glasnik Srpskoga učenog društva – Journal of the Serbian Society of Sciences), the well-known family of Balsha is known as “Balsha, Arbanasi/Albanian Lords”: (Балша Арбанашьскыи господинь-Balša arbanaški gospodin).
Bilbolbu@reddit
I already addressed this, in this context it means he ruled Albanian-populated lands. Here it is in modern Serbian:
AllMightAb@reddit
No it doesn't. Your just spewing shit to twist it how you want
Bilbolbu@reddit
Now you know my language better than I do?
You're the one to talk lol.
rydolf_shabe@reddit
you addressed it just by saying basically "your wrong im right" most scholars accept their albanian origin if you dont like it thats on you but dont push ur personal agenda
serbia has a rich and beautiful history of its own no need to take from others
HarisCapo@reddit
Cat bit your tongue?
Bilbolbu@reddit
I'm still waiting for that Serbian medieval sources he's mentioned
bigwastaken1@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bal%C5%A1i%C4%87_noble_family
it says so here too dude!!
guess the albanian guy was right !
Bilbolbu@reddit
Which medieval Serbian documentation mentions the Balšić family as ''Arbanasi''? I'm still waiting.
HarisCapo@reddit
The world isnt revolved around Serbia my dude. This is what worldwide sources say:
In medieval Serbian documents the Balšas are referred to as "Arbanas lords".[19] The well-known Bulgarian biographer of the 15th century, Constantine the Philosopher, who lived in the court of the Serbian ruler Stefan Lazarević, refers to Đurađ II Balšić and Balša III as Albanian lords. Historical sources from Ragusa document the Albanian ethnic affiliation of the Balša family, mentioning "the Albanian customs of the Balša".[20] In the funds of the Ragusan archives the Balšićs are one of the extremely present Arbanon families.[21] Furthermore, the Ottomans referred to Đurađ II Balšić as "ruler of Albanian Shkodra". Also the Hungarian king Sigismund, when he met him personally in 1396, called him "ruler of Albania".[20] One contemporary archival source in Vienna Archives mentions Balša II as "ruler of Albanians" during the Battle of Kosovo 1389.[22]
Bilbolbu@reddit
Already addressed this.
Provide the source in full and then we can discuss the context of it.
Ruler of Albanians does not equal to being Albanian. Emperor Dušan was also the ruler of Albanians does that make him Albanian all of a sudden?
Given the tendency of Albanians to steal Serbian history, heritage and land one could definitely think the world does revolve around Serbia, for Albanians at least.
HarisCapo@reddit
Nah im from the south i hate greeks more
bigwastaken1@reddit
Do you know how quotations work???... Search it yourself im not doing your work for you, im not chat gpt dimwit!
AllMightAb@reddit
Ćirković 2020, pp. 396–397:U tom svetlu ja ne mogu osporavati albanskim istoričarima da se bave Balšićima, koji su očigledno neslovenskog porekla, koji su u svim periodima gospodarili i delovima nesumnjivo albanske teritorije, i koje su srpski srednjovekovni izvori nazivali “arbanaškom gospodom”. Za mene je sasvim razumljivo da se Balšići javljaju i u perspektivi albanske i u perspektivi srpske istorije.
Bilbolbu@reddit
Show me Serb medieval documentation which calls the Balšić family ''Arbanasi''
AllMightAb@reddit
The medieval document is called Žitije despota Stefana Lazarevića ("Life of Despot Stefan Lazarević") authored by Constantine the Philosopher (Konstantin Filozof) in 1431.
You can download the pdf here
https://www.scribd.com/document/485111181/%D0%96%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B5-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%9B%D0%B0
Bilbolbu@reddit
And where exactly are the Balšić family mentioned as Arbanasi here? The only time ''Arbanasi'' are mentioned is:
''...Emperor John sent him to go with ships to his father in law to the island of Mytilene so he can conduct him to Arbanasi with ships...
And also note that the ''Arbanasi'' in this context is used as in ''Albanian lands''.
Here's the link:
https://www.rastko.rs/knjizevnost/liturgicka/konstantin-zitije_desp_stefana.html
You are welcome to find any mention of the Balšići as ''Arbanasi'' , I'm waiting.
AllMightAb@reddit
You should read more.
MaintenanceReady2533@reddit
They were Serbs but serbs are Albanians so…
InternetBeginning789@reddit
Why 90% of Albanian toponyms are of pure Serbian origin? Any explanation?
Mik00000000@reddit
Ofc they were Serbs, this is embarrasing. Delulu Albanians with no historical monuments from the past. Fake history nation.
blitzfreak_69@reddit
Montenegrin 🗿
Divljak44@reddit
Balša is a shortened form of Baltazar, at least among Croats
KindCartographer7717@reddit
Profesor
Emotional-Ice-111@reddit
Politically, they were Serbs. By origin, there are sources that suggest Albanian.
Actual-While-6538@reddit
Their names were "Balshajt" and it is one of Albanian principates.
"Balsic" doesn't exist, it is slavised term to revise the Albanian history, by Serb/Montegrin ultra-nationalists
5picy5ugar@reddit
At that point with such inter-marriages between Feudal Houses of that time, it didnt matter to them much if you were an Albanian, Byzantine Greek or Serb. The division was done Lord or Peasant 😄
Quiet-Pressure4920@reddit
Watching this sub, Albanians somehow claim everything as theirs? lol
I'm very confused, apparently everything from greece to slovenia is somehow albanian xD
InfinitePractice9014@reddit
Albanians claim only what belongs them!! Give some examples what we claim to Slovenia or Greece.
Quiet-Pressure4920@reddit
idk man yayll feel like everything on this peninsula belongs to you lol
InfinitePractice9014@reddit
Not a single serious claim in areas that werent historically inhabitated by albanians, im still open to examples that prove me wrong. From your information the Balshaj family here ruled one of the most important historic cities in Albania Shkodra. Ofcourse you are going to get a reaction when you claim that they ruled over serbs and that albanas doesent mean albanians in serbian but serbians that inhabitated these lands, some usual brainless serb propaganda BS.
Quiet-Pressure4920@reddit
the way serbs live rent free in your heads is amazing
Sekwan2000@reddit
All moved to Switzerland or something
Big_Beast2236@reddit
I mean just being of a certain origin doesn't change the fact that they ruled over lands where Serbs lived, that they intermarried with Serbian nobility, that they adopted Serbian customs, names, language etc. For an example, Bosnian Kotromanić dynasty was most likely of German (or other Germanic) origin but they still ruled over Bosnian lands and were Bosnian rulers, similar situation to Russian Rurik dynasty, etc. There are quite a lot of examples of that, so were they of Albanian origin most likely yes, were they Serbian rulers and do they also have Serbian origin through marrying into rest of Serbian nobility, once again, yes.
MrDDD11@reddit
For example the British Royal family is German and they changed their last name when British went to war with Germany.
Cheydinhal-Sanctuary@reddit
Why do you want to know? So weird
Dominus-Augustus@reddit
I've researched this topic a lot and the simplest answer is this. The Ballshaj (Balsic) were initially Slavic as Ballshaj I came from the Zeta Region (central Montenegro). However, they were albanized overtime through marriages and alliances with Albanian noble families. Ballshaj II adopted Albanian Identity and Customs. Ballshaj III abdicated and soon his family lost all possessions at the hands of the rising ottomans. This marks the end of their story.
trefazi@reddit
Its the other way around
Ghostofcoolidge@reddit
Oh great another thing for Serbians and Albanians to fight about
tranc3rooney@reddit
Ah shit.
We’re talking about nationality when it didn’t even exist in today’s form.
What can go wrong.
MrDDD11@reddit
Well the last name is certainly Slavic. And it's likely to have come from a person named Blaža, Blašo... which are also Slavic names. For thoes wondering when it comes to Serbs, Croats, Bosniak's and Montenegrins IĆ is added at the end of a ancestor name, location, occupation... to create it kind indicating you came from that person for example Petrović literally means of Petar. Ski servers a similar purpose in North Macedonia, EV and OV are found in most Slavic languages like Popov which means you had a priest in the family...
farquaad_thelord@reddit
Even serb writers at the time described them as Arbanasi princes, and i think the last name is Balshaj originally.