Starting the Weekly Xena Rewatch Thread -- Discussion!

Posted by Latte-Catte@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 48 comments

As per a user request, I've decided to start a community interactive Xena rewatch thread—to encourage those who are rewatching Xena here and there, and those who are just joining us, jump in and discuss!

I’ll post weekly and follow the episodes chronologically, for those who have time to sneak in some Xena, and those who (probably) don’t.

This week, from May 29 until June 4, let's tune in on the Pilot Trilogy:

Sins of the Past (ep1)
Chariots of War (ep2)
Dreamworker (ep3)

For those asking: Where can I watch Xena Warrior Princess?

In the US, it is available on Amazon, Prime. It is also on Apple TV. You can purchase season 1 to season 6 on Youtube and Fandago.

For the viewers in Greece, you can watch the entire Xena Warrior Princess in Greek dubbed/subtitled on Xena Greece Youtube Channel (only available in Greece regionally).

For anyone who wish to buy the complete series to finally watch Xena (not sure how to find dubbings in other languages), you should purchase the full Anchor Bay DVD sets on eBay.

[-]

IseQween@reddit

Okay, this is a good chance for me to follow through on my pledge to another member that I would focus more on Gabs and share my observations. I'd admitted to initially fast-forwarding through her scenes and gradually coming to appreciate her more.

SOTP: It struck me how often Gabs stands up to folks besides those slavers -- her parents, her betrothed, her sister, Xena's folks, that Cyclops, the crusty wagon driver, and Xena herself. It begins a series-long pattern that went beyond the impulsive feistiness I tended to discount and now regard as self-confidence she had pre Xena's influence.

CHARIOTS: I noted Gabs' subtle influences on characters and action. With Xena, it's the first stage of accepting the benefits, responsibilities, comfort level with companionship (i.e., the WP not acting like she's still alone, no one caring about her) -- "tree in the forest"; "I was worried sick," "Sorry," "Did you just apologize" exchange after Xena's solo encounters; Xena's acquiescence to Gabs' insisting on not being left behind again; saying she doesn't miss her family so much being with Xena. Gabs' chats with Sphaerus prove important in convincing him to act differently during the fight between his father and Xena, as well as to chose peace over war with the villagers.

Gabs may be a romantic, but isn't clueless about handling men or being sidetracked from the fulfillment she envisioned traveling with Xena.

We also see Gabs as gutsy guinea pig (riding horse to distract bad guys), a role she plays later when Xena forces her to do something out of her comfort zone. (Pretending to dangle over the hole in S4 CRUSADER comes to mind.)

DREAMWORKER: The ep begins with Gabs romanticizing being a warrior ("like Xena") -- practicing with Xena's sword, picking it up during a fight despite Xena's warnings, sneaking purchase of the breast dagger. She didn't always listen to the WP's advice, but did so in her first solo test against Morpheus' henchmen -- finding ways to avoid using a weapon even if she had one. She realized the difference between defending herself and killing, frightened at learning how close she'd come to the latter. This experience didn't dissuade her from traveling with and being a help to Xena, but seemed to be an awakening for her in terms of the consequences of becoming a warrior like Xena and changed in ways she couldn't fathom yet. On the positive side, she got to appreciate one of her best skills -- talking -- as an effective part of her arsenal in tough situations.

[-]

Musical_Xena@reddit

If we watch the series as a hero's journey for Gabrielle, your description is great at describing what traits and strengths she had before her journey started, which helped her survive the early journey.

It's kinda sad that she seems to lose some of those traits as the series progresses. But the journey has a cost, I suppose. It's almost like stat rebalancing: she gains strength and wisdom, but loses some charisma (in the sense of using her words vs her weapons).

[-]

IseQween@reddit

I don't see her losing those traits, so much as considering and reshaping them for more practical benefits in the real-life scenarios. In the beginning she tended to pontificate just because, with little knowledge about potential consequences. As she "matures," she still tries to use her words first, but with sensitivity to the political or military situation. I love how, in the S5 ANTONY, Cleopatra's aides look to Gabs for direction when they're mystified by Xena's behavior. She's also who Xena relies on to see if young Octavius is worth considering for a more peaceful resolution.

In other respects, she continues to challenge Xena and others, as well as integrate her beliefs into her directives as an Amazon queen. She's willing to accept responsibility for tough choices, as in HELICON and WHEN IN ROME. Aiden, Najara, Brunhilda, Beowulf and so many others continue to see her as an extraordinarily good soul despite the compromises she has to make fighting for good. S6 LEGACY shows how she's become known as both a bard and warrior who continues to put her life on the line for her ideals.

[-]

Musical_Xena@reddit

I just watched "The Way" from Season 4, so that's coloring my bias. But there was a moment when Gabrielle exclaimed "He's evil!" or something like that, about the main bad guy of the episode. She basically knew nothing about him at that point, just what other people told her. It stuck out to me as very much the opposite of her assumptions in previous seasons.

She's trying to start her peace path, and immediately resorts to physical attacks when it looks like Xena is threatened. I know it's supposed to show how much she cares about Xena and how she's struggling with the new path, but it just ... It didn't live up to your praise, I guess.

[-]

TheOneKhajiit@reddit

Gabrielle inherently is against injustice, and we see that again and again even when she has no strength or knowledge to back up her fight. It's interesting that Xena in her path to redemption is shown as quite noble and trying to do the right thing, but Gabrielle is LOUD about it and that's impressive in of itself. But in a way it comes from being naïve, like you said as she grows and builds relationships her morals turn grey especially when Xena is involved.

[-]

IseQween@reddit

Oh, no, I didn't intend to idealize Gabs, any more than I do Xena. Their flaws, contradictions and uncertainties made them more human to me. I was trying to focus on eps 1-3. In retrospect, it's very hard not commenting on traits I see playing out later and ignoring how they differ.

I agree, "benefit of the doubt" Gabs we see through most of S1-4 does a bit of a role reversal with Xena thereafter (e.g., with Varia and Belach). I attribute her "he's an evil man" in your example to her newfound attachment to Eli, whom she automatically sees is the antithesis to Indrajit in the pseudo religious context of the ep.

[-]

Musical_Xena@reddit

She does have a tendency to find figures she wants to respect and just go "all in" on supporting them for at least some time (Xena, Najara, Eli...), so you're probably right about her reaction to the baddie in that episode.

Since I'm rewatching the show for the first time in years, I'm gonna keep an eye on her and question my own assumptions about her development and behavior. I remember short-hair Gabrielle as very different than early Gab, but I'm sure I've forgotten a lot! Thanks for sharing all your thoughts, gives me things to look for.

[-]

IseQween@reddit

Well, I'm such a Xena gal it took Gab lovers to make me at least look for things I didn't before. I frankly dismissed perspectives on the series really being about her journey. Forcing myself to view it that way has been very illuminating. It's made me appreciate Xena differently as well, in light of her support role to Gabs -- more responsive, patient, open, vulnerable than when I focused on her as the strong, self-contained center of everything. I understand better why she could from the beginning see in Gabs more than an annoying, get-in-the way tagalong. Gods, this is why -- after decades -- I still love this show!

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

I'm also a big Xena girl, but in hindsight, without Gabrielle we wouldn't get subtle moments of imperfection, vulnerabilities, and mistakes in a show that's all about highlighting the goods of Xena's. Gabrielle definitely help humanize Xena by a large margin.

[-]

IseQween@reddit

Oh, I absolutely agree. I realized dissing Gabs was like missing half of what made Xena interesting. That led me to get to know Gabs better.

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

Yep, she's still trying to be everyone's savior, but each season with less naivete.

[-]

IseQween@reddit

Huh. Ironic the S6 world-tested Gabs in AFIN says "I don't care" about being everyone else's savior, but self-sacrificing S1 Gabs ultimately prevails --"Take (permanently separate) me and Xena, let the others go" Gabs ultimately prevails.

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

SOTP: Gabrielle is quite feisty and gutsy. Who else would willingly go chasing after a murderer leaving behind her family the way she did? I was going to say leaving behind the safety and security of her village life but it certainly wasn't safe - not with slavers coming along. One question though, is there any explanation (apart from plot device) as to why Xena detours to Poteidaia on her way home, 'cos it's not part of a direct route from southern Greece to Amphipolis. I like how the episode established Gabrielle's ability to talk her way out of and into things - even guilting the Warrior Princess with "I just saved your life." As for Xena, that very comment, and her reaction to it, is the start of her changing. But I have another question - what does Xena do with Gabrielle after the incident at the tomb? Did she drop her off somewhere after all, or ride away without her? Because the next time we see them, Gabrielle is making her way to Xena's campfire saying she was going to wait until Xena was in another fix, before stepping in to help her again.

CHARIOTS: The second adventure - we see Gabrielle telling stories to Xena which is such a big part of her character in the beginning and we also see her insecurity at being left behind. Who else thought that Xena could have/might have just ridden off? (Apart from the fact that we know it's a tv series and that's not going to happen). But then you see Gabrielle's determination to find her again, after she's late returning. I liked the Xena that was shown interacting with children, a person she could have been, until the villagers bring up her murderous past again. And her comment to Gabrielle at the end of the episode - I don't think it's just Xena wondering if Gabrielle misses her family, I think Xena also misses her family and secretly craves for that sort of life. Plus of course saying sorry - obviously not something Gabrielle has seen her do yet in the series. Another thing that stood out to me in this episode is that Gabrielle in the tavern is drawn to Sphaerus, who's a dark warrior sitting alone who has blue eyes. Is Gabrielle subconsciously being drawn to someone because he's like Xena?

DREAMWORKER: Personally I saw this episode as the start of the subtext, whether the actors knew it or not. Xena notices Gabrielle is "bigger" i.e. her breasts, and at the same time Gabrielle makes a comment about Xena's breasts so they've obviously noted these things about each other. Why? Well we know why the more experienced Xena would notice, but Gabrielle? Then there's Gabrielle reaching out to touch Xena's oriental-style outfit in the dreamscape, admiring it. Xena's also started teaching Gabrielle things, who's a willing learner. Plus Xena acknowledging her dark side, and the strength she gets from it, is another step forward for her.

[-]

Agent8699@reddit

Xena wasn’t on her way to Amphipolis? She was planning to kill herself - suicide by warlord. She buried her armour and weapons and presumably intended to wander until she found trouble and then died fighting it.

Luckily for her, trouble found her immediately and she was … inspired to fight with greater purpose by the actions of a certain plucky young blonde woman.

After saving the Potideians, Xena is reinvigorated and decides to approach finding redemption another way - by going back to where it all started and perhaps seeking forgiveness? Instead, she finds they continue to thirst for vengeance and she allows them to stone her to death … until the timely interruption by that same plucky young blonde woman.

As for where Gabrielle went … Xena probably left her behind to polish Lyceus’ tomb. Or Gabrielle went to the tavern and badgered Cyrene for stories about Xena when she was younger until Cyrene put her to work washing dishes.

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

I read the script further. In it, they do ride off together south and Xena stops at a place within two hours walking distance of Poteidaia and drops Gabrielle off there. Xena must have camped soon after, as Gabrielle obviously follows her and we have a slightly different exchange of words at the campsite, with Gabrielle saying she can cook, which seems to be the clincher. Earlier in that scene Xena had tasted some of the soup she'd been making and spat it out! So now we know the answer to why Xena kept her around - to cook. :-)

[-]

Agent8699@reddit

Well, obviously! What other appeal is there to such a chatterbox?! 👩‍🍳

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

No response required. 😁

[-]

Musical_Xena@reddit

For your question about why Xena detours, I would guess that the actual reason might be that the writers weren't too concerned about the particulars of geography, or expecting viewers to be that detail-oriented about it.

In-universe, I'd imagine that Xena wanted to go home but was terrified of how she'd be received and all the memories and guilt it would surface. So, she headed in that general direction, and looked for any opportunity to stall.

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

I just assumed Xena head towards any direction that gives her work to do good for. And avoid any city/towns that she previous commits bad deeds on, to avoid tangling with the laws and the local government. Then again, everywhere she goes, Xena has offended someone and killed their family 10 years ago 🤣

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

Good point. It does seem the writers, when they chose actual Greek locations like Amphipolis and Poteidaia maybe didn't have a good idea of where they were. There was no Google Maps then (when they were filming).

[-]

EBJ1990@reddit

I would like to share the random thought I have while going through season 1: I just love baby Gabrielle. She's adorable.

[-]

Agent8699@reddit

Awesome! Any chance we could reduce it to one episode a week?

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

We will talk about it on here. Feel free to make your own separate rewatch thread for notes you want to discuss about what you've seen tho :-). We are not strict haha.

As for 1 per week, I thought about it and even discussed it with a friend. I just assumed 1 episode a week for 137 week stretching over 2 years is a lot for most people 😳

Even 2 episodes a week still stretch it a little over 68 weeks (an entire year!!).

But with some feedback I'm totally down to reduce it to 1 episode a week. I'll await for response first.

[-]

Musical_Xena@reddit

Could maybe adjust the number for special occasions? Like if there are 4 episodes in a convenient story arc, grab 'em in one post. And for episodes like The Bitter Suite, maybe give a standalone.

However you want is totally fine, though! You're the one putting in the most effort, so please use whatever method makes it fun and sustainable for you.

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

I have plans for 2-parters and certain trilogies, but when did Xena ever had a 4-parter? I can't seem to remember 😅

[-]

hermit198388@reddit

I think you could make a case for classifying Looking Death in the Eye to Motherhood as a four parter.

And though they can obviously be subdivided and the tone of the episodes is so different this doesn't feel entirely natural, Sacrifice 1 to Family Affair can also be argued to be a five parter.

[-]

hermit198388@reddit

I'm not suggesting you lump these together for your purposes, btw, just saying a person could see them that way.

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

I get it haha!

Feel free to let me know whether the weekly episodes are too many or too less.

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

Depends on your definition I guess. There are five episodes in The Rift that are recognised, though they can be split into Deliverer/Gabrielle's Hope, The Debt I&II, and Bitter Suite, but I always add in Forget Me Not because that completes the Rift for me as it relates to the Debts. Similarly, all the episodes in Season 4 that relate to Gabrielle's spiritual quest - do you include Paradise Found with the Indian arc episodes for example? I'll be interested in seeing how you group them all for comment.

[-]

Agent8699@reddit

All good. I’m happy if it’s a three if that works for the majority. It will give me an excuse to skip the likes of Chariots of War : )

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

Yes, I plan on including many crossovers, including some optional HTLJ viewings :-)

For example, the planned Dahak crossovers that got axed because of Sorbo's health, I will include at some point to conclude that storyline. Be Deviled I believe should've been Callisto's redemptive start, but got poached for another character, I will also include as optional viewing and etc, :-)

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

I think the crossovers like Surprise and Armageddon Now would be good, but my opinion of the original Hercules trilogy is that isn't the 'real' Xena as she's represented in the series, in my opinion, so I'm happy to skip them.

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

I don't plan on skipping the warrior princess trilogy, I just planned them after season 1. Since this is the Xena rewatch event, I wanted to start off the first post with the beginning of it all --the pilots. I'm definitely gonna encourage everyone to watch some of the crossover, including strange strange world episode, since I think some of the xenites are missing out.

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

And Lucy and Renee got to act out of character in that episode.

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

OP Is this a chance to also seek feedback on another pet project of mine as well - that of working out how long each episode takes place over, i.e. how many days, and how long it could be estimated they are travelling together from place to place, eg. in one episode if they're in Corinth, how many days is it to Delphi etc. As some on this list may recall, I have an interest in Xena's timeline.

[-]

EBJ1990@reddit

That's actually pretty interesting!

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

If you're capable of tracing the timeline through the limited recounts of xenagab previous journeys, not shown in the episodes, I hope you manage to map down some decent timeframe between them 😅

[-]

AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

Yes, well I've been wondering whether it would help any with the whole Ten Years Ago everything happened scenarios we're presented with through the series. But in retrospect, it might be too cerebral and boring so I might just pursue it myself, and when I'm watching these episodes to discuss on this thread, make a mental note of it myself. Anyone else who's interested in this sort of project, feel free to chat with me.

[-]

Musical_Xena@reddit

Two things:

1) Thanks so much for all your engaging posts, Latte-Catte! You make it fun to come check out the subreddit regularly.

2) I am so glad that Xena loosened up over the years. It makes sense that she was more emotionally reserved at first, since it was a new show and they were figuring it out, and since the character was also figuring herself out and how to be good while being a warrior. But it's so much more fun when she shakes off this early version. In these early episodes, she's quieter, doesn't laugh or smile as much, doesn't trust herself to let loose (cause being unreserved leads to the dark side? Idk). I'm guessing that Lucy had more fun playing the looser Xena, too.

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

Thanks haha 🤗 I've become good at forcing conversations outta some of y'all who are otherwise quietly hiding away!

I think the stoic demeanor might just be Lucy's choice in s1 actually. She didn't loosen how she played Xena until a few encouragement from other directors and writers. That explanation made a lot more sense to me considering the stark transition from the Hercules' Xena to the pilot Xena.

The crew had a struggle finding a direction, but imo, that gave Xena greater depth as a character. She's no longer the two dimensional femme fatale as shown previously. She can be stoic, lonely, and extremely guilty to the point of nearly killing herself. It leaves so many room for improvement, while the first version felt one and done.

[-]

Musical_Xena@reddit

Agreed. It was a very good character choice for her development and arc, whether that decision was from Lucy, the writers, directors, all of the above, etc. And it was probably helpful for viewers to get a sense of seriousness considering that it was a female lead in a genre that was normally reserved for male leads, back then.

The part of me that watches for escapism just really wants to see Xena having fun so I can have vicarious fun through her.

[-]

Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)

I think either Xena is good. S1 definitely help set the tone for a more serious and gritty show compared to the light hearted Hercules tho. Later, when Xena do loosen up, it seems like the writers find themselves constantly ante up the horrible sins of her past, piling higher than the mountain! I love those episodes though, I'm so glad they choose to cross boundaries than stick to one formula.

gif

[-]