Real-Time Markov Chain Path Guiding for Global Illumination and Single Scattering - Lucas Alber
Posted by MrMPFR@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 16 comments
moschles@reddit
Have you posted in /r/GraphicsProgramming ??
MrMPFR@reddit (OP)
No but the originator of MCPG posted this video a while back in r/GraphicsProgramming
Can you please tag me in the comment section or in post when you've posted about this. There's also a official mention of the method at I3D 2025. Perhaps they'll upload a keynote sometime in the future.
I was also told that this path tracer framework has the same performance on a RTX 4080 as a 7900 XTX, quite unusual but it's apparently optimized for AMD hardware and AMD also has superior memory performance compared to NVIDIA.
poke133@reddit
I want to believe! (that these optimizations are viable and will find their way in modern game engines for RDNA2 and console hardware)
MrMPFR@reddit (OP)
100% viable and can even be combined with ReSTIR for even better results and they also claim it's a lot easier to implement than NVIDIA ReSTIR (path tracing used in games like Cyberpunk 2077, AW2, Black Myth Wukong etc...).
If the pace of RTRT advancements keeps going at this rate then PS5/PS6 crossgen will almost certainly include multiple path traced games.
Strazdas1@reddit
Well that title is a mouthful. Still, this looks like good progress.
MrMPFR@reddit (OP)
Still wonder how the 1080p120 biased MCPG PT looks compared to the full implementation. A 4x increase in framerate can't be without compromises.
Tried reaching out to u/fpx555 in their posts with some general questions about the implementation will be interesting what they write back.
MrMPFR@reddit (OP)
This paper was introduced at the 2025 I3D Symposium and introduces a very performant path tracing solution that was tested in the original Quake game. It basically only falls short of NVIDIA's ReSTIR in scenes with many light sources. They used a RX 7900XTX for testing. This quote is from the blog.
"The demo project features path traced global illumination and single scattering effects at frame rates over 30 FPS on NVIDIA’s GeForce 20 series or AMD’s Radeon RX 6000 series without upscaling."
This is less interesting than these quotes from the paper:
"The resulting algorithm can produce smooth, temporally stable path traced images, including indirect lighting and single scattering in a few milliseconds at full HD resolution, even on previous generation hardware from AMD’s Radeon RX 6000 series or NVIDIA’s GeForce 20 series such as the AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT or the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti."
A few ms overhead to go from almost a pitch black sparse PT input to something fairly close to ground truth.
"In practice, we found 2 SPP for 2-bounce surface paths and 2 SPP for volume paths (7 rays in total: 1 for G-Buffer creation, 2 × 2 surface rays, 2 volume rays) an optimal compromise between performance and quality, resulting in around 60 FPS in most scenes of Arcane Dimensions. For older hardware, the surfaces can also be traced with only 1 SPP or, if a slight bias is acceptable, the path length can even be reduced to trace direct light only, and the path tail is read from the irradiance cache. Although this method is biased, it results in more than 120 FPS in most scenes, even on previous generation hardware, while achieving a similar error at low sample counts."
I know very little about ray tracing but enough to know that this research paper is a very big deal. Achieving 120FPS native 1080p (AFAIK is also the PT rendering resolution) on RDNA 2 GPU is just insane and nothing like the overhead of NVIDIA's ReSTIR algorithm. And no this is not a half baked screen space reliant and probe based ray tracing implementation as in most current gen games except a few outliers. Excitingly it's a full blown world space reliant path tracer.
Was really hoping for a ReSTIR like breakthrough in RTRT, but wasn't expecting it this soon. The best part about the RDNA 2 GPU performance is that it could even open the door to some form path tracing on the current gen consoles.
And this wasn't even the only interesting paper unveiled at I3D 2025 (find recap here). There was two papers related to crowd simulation, an efficient voxel game renderer, neural muscle calculations, a neural compression of 3D meshes, NVIDIA's STF solution for neural rendering, and AMD's LSNIF solution for bypassing ray tracing cores for ray tracing of objects (BLAS).
Stay tuned for the upcoming High Performance Graphics conference in about a month, SIGGRAPH in August, and soon to be released GDC materials on work graphs because things will only get more interesting from here.
TheHodgePodge@reddit
So mid range gpus have no chance to run it at playable framerate (60 fps without fake frames) if it takes a high end amd gpu to run it at 1080p60
MrMPFR@reddit (OP)
The full implementation no (only achieves 1080p60 on 7900XTX, the performant implementation no.
They said +120FPS 1080p native on RDNA 2 likely a 6800-6900XT. AFAICT it's \~4x faster than the full implementation. Should be +60FPS 1080p on a 7600 based on this.
But this is Quake 1996 path traced so we won't see 1080p native path traced on a RX 7600 in Black Myth Wukong for example. Just too demanding, but should be possible when games start to implement something other than ReSTIR-only path tracers after the PS6 launch
This is just one method and there are other methods that can be combined with MCPG for something that can be even more performant or better looking. I'll take any technology that can moves us past the current ReSTIR roadblock.
ML7777777@reddit
This is getting very very interesting.
MrMPFR@reddit (OP)
Indeed and this is really just the tip of the iceberg. Went back through I3D 2024 and 2023's keynotes and papers and wow some impressive path traced related tech indeed.
Not worried about performant ray tracing and path tracing at all in the future. With neural rendering, AI, and procedural content driven by mesh shaders and work graphs in addition to realtime performant PT it looks increasingly likely that the 10th gen console era will be as big as or a bigger deal than the PS4 and Xbox One gen. What an exciting prospect indeed after the underwhelming current gen.
NoPriorThreat@reddit
I thought that monte-carlo is regularly used in rendering.
Wardious@reddit
The demo project features path traced global illumination and single scattering effects at frame rates over 30 FPS on NVIDIA’s GeForce 20 series or AMD’s Radeon RX 6000 series without upscaling.
Very impressive !
MrMPFR@reddit (OP)
That's nothing compared to what they wrote in research paper. Apparently achieves +120FPS on RDNA 2 at 1080p native with an optimized solution with 1SPP and shorter path length without a severe graphical downgrade. Sounds like path tracing on a PS5 isn't impossible afterall.
If they in a future paper can fix the noise issue with many light sources and bring general improvements then MCPG might the next ReSTIR.
Wardious@reddit
Path tracing on base ps5 would be insane, even with some compromises.
MrMPFR@reddit (OP)
Indeed but still wondering how the PT overhead in a complex AAA game compares with a simpler game like original Quake or Minecraft RTX. Still even a 30FPS quality mode on the PS5 with path tracing running below internal res would be impressive.