If there's a higher entity out there, it surely doesn't care about us us anything on this planet. Otherwise the feedback loops wouldn't continue on and we'd be gone or humbled, those same feedback loops are gonna sterilize life for a while, potentially even until the Sun dies.
I listened to this guys free book chapter, and while some of his points are basically reasonable he also makes some pretty wild claims…
One of which being that according to him we can pretty much ignore the possibility we live in a deterministic universe and that we definitely have “free will”.
Not saying we don’t have free will, just that as a rule it’s basically impossible for us to tell if we have free will or not…
Also I find it hard to take seriously anyone who wants to talk about human brain size as an indicator for intelligence. Whales have fucking huge brains does that make them more intelligent?
There are spiders with practically microscopic brains that appear to have more problem solving and complex planning capacity than some mammals…
> It is worth it if people can see themselves not as inherently destructive but as blank slates that can choose to be agents of change.
So basically this is a pep talk for people who don’t want to feel bad about themselves. People have an obsession about not wanting to think of themselves as “bad people”. It might be psychologically comforting for some people but for me I accept that people are the way they are, maybe we could be different but we aren’t and I don’t see any obvious or easy ways to dramatically what we are or how we behave.
> One of which being that according to him we can pretty much ignore the possibility we live in a deterministic universe and that we definitely have “free will”.
The more I interact with people over the years, the less I think free will matters. They have consumer minds developed by TV/mainstream/internet with almost all the same plastic thoughts driven by the same underlying desires, etc. And super strongly influenced by our animal programming.
Think of a cat. Yes, it has free will. But does it matter? It’s never going to take it and learn to play the piano or anything.
The point is it isn’t about those people not wanting to feel bad. Some of us are doing active harm and he’s trying to figure out how to convince people to realize they don’t have to act like savages.
Doubting free will etc sounds like a reason not to hold people to a higher standard.
All of us are doing active harm it’s just a question of degrees.
> trying to figure out how to convince people to realize they don’t have to act like savages.
The people you would most need to convince aren’t even slightly interested in the topic.
> Doubting free will etc sounds like a reason not to hold people to a higher standard.
Most people are absolutely certain that they have free will it doesn’t appear to have any positive impact on their behavior.
Belief in free will almost certainly has a negative impact on people's behavior because they don't focus on environmental factors that clearly determine behavior nor do they consider the metacognition required to change one's behavior with conscious awareness.
"Free will" is one of the worst ideas humanity has ever had, but it makes a great excuse for exhibiting cruelty in the name of justice and blaming people.
>Doubting free will etc sounds like a reason not to hold people to a higher standard.
Life has taught me to avoid expecting things that I know won't happen. The paycheck-bouncing bosses getting their shit together, the crackhead father finding his lost marbles, the deadbeat brother going back to take care of his kids, the drunken poltergeist finishing her dream project, the latest smartphone/app genuinely protecting your privacy instead of endlessly virtue signalling about it.
Whenever I find myself surprised, I try to update my worldview accordingly. Lack of belief in absolute free will (belief: people may be free to some extent but can only steer on the roads life gives them) can be a source of good will if you tell people to seek better circumstances instead of just demanding they play like a good hand when they've been dealt a bad hand.
If you're in a poor town seek paths to a not-poor town, if you're in the wrong crowd seek paths to the right crowd. Ignore the background noise from people expecting you to get a rich town outcome while stuck in a poor town, but at the same time don't ignore potential escapes from poor town.
Yeah well clearly humans have diverged.
People who still act as free agents and people who are easily influenced and slaves to their lymbic systems and who refuse to use deeper reason.
The ones who don’t want to act like wild animals are dismayed by the rest. Doesn’t mean we aren’t capable of better. This post just proves some people don’t want to even try
I'm not *merely* talking about people who autopilot their way through life, of course they exist and of course they practice stupidity to the point of mastery but they're not *the whole picture.*
Plenty of people simply have their hands tied. 9 times out of 10 when people advise me about bounced paychecks their advice boils down to *"use something expensive"* and then the advice-giver acts like I'm learned helplessness when I tell them I can't spend money I never received. The 10th time out of 10 it's just canned platitudes and one-size-fits-all pep talks about determination and overcoming obstacles.
My belief is that people have free will within limited choices, and some people's choices are more limited than others. I say so because I grew up in a town full of trailer parks. The place is not utterly immune to success stories, but you're more likely to find them *in a successful town.* A person who is devoting their life to *pay the bills at any cost* cannot devote themselves to fixing their community.
For example, being carless outside of cities in America is economically crippling. The business center on the bus route goes past the local 'mall' of 2 gas stations 3 fast foods and 1 little sit down restaurant. For each one of these small businesses there is a large neighborhood in walking distance full of desperate-for-work people. Getting a local job means spending 3 hours a day less on the freeway, but if you haven't got a car then the freeway is not an option. Needless to say, the competition over local jobs is fierce.
The largest businesses in town went out of business decades ago and are now footprints that nobody else is building upon. The other 'mall' on the other side of town has a dentist a ghetto-grocery and an awful lot of empty space. You know those vertical sign boards that list business names? I walked around looking for employment and passed a *blank* one of those. New things under construction seem to be in the same phase of construction indefinitely. A small car dealership was set up in a patch of dead dirt between the main street and the freeway - it looks like an old western movie but with cars instead of horses.
Any sensible definition of "free will" would involve understanding how consciousness works, which we do not. As such, when people talk about "free will", I have no idea what they're talking about. Why conjecture that we have something that's never been sensibly defined?
Free will or determinism ?
Do we have agency ?
Well lets pretend that we do have "agency" and move on from there .
( Obsessing about free will / determinism is a road block 'pedantic' focus.
I always refer to my 'cult childhood' - it took a life time to deconstruct it ... a lot easier with the internet in later years. Civilization is kind of a cult ... we are immersed in t and 'trained / groomed' to not be aware of alternatives.)
Spiritual (yech , ooh yuck ) revolution is required.
Folk don't really even get what that is ... it is kind of nebulous ... in our materialistic civilization chugging along financial fundamentalism rails.
It's a paradigm shift thing.
We all been brain washed.
It is classic Orwellian brain washing . Sorry .
He says "The evidence..." each time, providing no evidence.
I think all self replicating things will tend toward growth once you expand their boundaries. For instance, people who make the moral choice not to procreate die out leaving the people inclined not to care.
How did he prove we have free will?
The following submission statement was provided by /u/416246:
---
Submission statement:
This is collapse related to because while people may think that thinking deeply about the causes of collapse and about whether this was the only possible destination is futile, academic, or pedantic, it is quite important for the human psyche. It is worth it if people can see themselves not as inherently destructive but as blank slates that can choose to be agents of change.
From the article:
> Humanity was not pre-destined to screw up so badly. And not all of humanity screwed up so badly. As we seek to learn and change as a result of such insights, we should neither seek to avoid – nor get hung up on – shame or blame. Instead, we can inquire into reality no matter how painful that might be for some of us. Because any explanations which might curtail curiosity into the causes of our predicament (due to aversion to difficult emotions) could limit the scope of our potential kindness to others and to wider life at this time of awakening to the full extent of destruction.
He has been banned from twitter, and I think it’s important to share his voice especially as a sober one not paralyzed by reality nor succumbing to self soothing or nihilism.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/157511g/loving_being_human_despite_a_fracturing_world/jt3232i/
Submission statement:
This is collapse related to because while people may think that thinking deeply about the causes of collapse and about whether this was the only possible destination is futile, academic, or pedantic, it is quite important for the human psyche. It is worth it if people can see themselves not as inherently destructive but as blank slates that can choose to be agents of change.
From the article:
> Humanity was not pre-destined to screw up so badly. And not all of humanity screwed up so badly. As we seek to learn and change as a result of such insights, we should neither seek to avoid – nor get hung up on – shame or blame. Instead, we can inquire into reality no matter how painful that might be for some of us. Because any explanations which might curtail curiosity into the causes of our predicament (due to aversion to difficult emotions) could limit the scope of our potential kindness to others and to wider life at this time of awakening to the full extent of destruction.
He has been banned from twitter, and I think it’s important to share his voice especially as a sober one not paralyzed by reality nor succumbing to self soothing or nihilism.
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