Lazy hiring process
Posted by patatasnisarah@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 37 comments
For about 8 years, I was in product dev teams as software engineer/manager. After taking a gap year and completely disconnecting from anything coding and tech during that time, I recently interviewed for a new role.
1st interview: It was with a software engineer and another non dev. We discussed about my background and what it's like in the company. I told them I want to align first about compensation expectations before we continue further.
Days passed, I got an invite for another call. Similar like the first one it was just a templated calendar invite. In my head okay maybe this is a conversation about package.
2nd meeting: To my surprise it was a tech panel interview. Remember I just got out from my long tech break. They asked questions about the language and framework APIs. I had to joggle my memory and shit hits the fan. It was a hit or miss for me. I was having a hard time giving answers to things I've encountered and did.
At the back of my head they probably lost their interest in me and so did I to them. It was a very disappointing experience. No discussion prior to salary and benefits. I wasn't informed that I was up for a tech panel. The questioning were how much I know about the language apis, patterns, descriptions of hashmaps. For god's sake I'm not applying for a teaching role in some academy. I'm joining to solve problems, program while googling for insights on best practices, patterns, techniques, apis to apply and put together not memorize.
None of that tech panel discussion measures any of that. To add, before we start I brought up that I wasn't informed that I'm going into a technical interview. But nothing, no reaction.
I’ve also had extensive experience in hiring, which adds to my frustration with this current experience. Hiring should be a thoughtful process, but I just had one that clearly lacks that.
scar1494@reddit
Im not sure how long it has been since you have interviewed but the expectations you have from interviews are not correct.
The interview panel usually will have folks that will check your skills for that role. If it's a technical one then obviously the questions would be technical. Solving problems and googling is something that is done by freshers to principal engineers, that cannot help them measure your fitness for the role.
In regards to the compensation, most companies check your rough current and expectations before you start interviewing. Then the discussion only happens if they are convinced about hiring you.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
They didn't check in with me regarding salary expectations and their JD doesn't include salary range. Just like you I expect to have that convo first. And I mentioned in our first meeting that I would like to know but instead they got me into the technical interview without also informing me
scar1494@reddit
How was the first interview with you scheduled?
Usually an HR connects with you and takes the preliminary details including your resume and salary expectations.
If the details were taken from platforms like naukri, then they might also take the expected salary you have provided in the platform.
It won't be a deep discussion, just collecting the numbers from you.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
I haven't talked to a single HR person from their team. (I know it's weird especially they are an enterprise international company). I applied in LinkedIn so there's definitely no data regarding salary expectations.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
This is an extremely difficult background to have in the current hiring market. Although you may not realize it, your 8 years of experience were all during a long period of good times in the tech industry. You then took a year off and, as you say, completely disconnected from tech.
You are now entering a job market that is more competitive than anything you’ve seen in your career and you’re doing it with skills that have decayed and fallen behind for a year.
The interview you experienced is normal. Being asked technical questions in an interview is normal. It doesn’t matter if they warn you or not about technical questions because you’re not going to cram for a day or two and bring your entire knowledge of the developer space back up to the level of someone who has been working in that area non-stop for the past year.
I suggest you take this interview as a learning experience and adapt to it. If you’ve only had one standard interview so far and you’re already this tilted about it, it’s going to be a very long job search. I also suggest you start doing interview prep now, because you can’t expect companies to hand you the questions ahead of time.
You’re coming into a difficult job market with a huge deficit of being disconnected from tech for a year. They will have dozens of qualified people in their applicant list who can easily answer their questions and demonstrate that they’re prepared. You need to invest some time into getting yourself into a position where being asked questions about frameworks and APIs doesn’t reveal that your knowledge is rusty and out of date.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
I get your point. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
sdoooooo@reddit
I think you are in for rude awakening with that attitude
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
So are you telling me you don't read and get ideas from the internet? That you memorized APIs? Patterns right to their exact descriptions?
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
Someone who uses an API or framework regularly in their job will understand the general shape of the API and requests enough to discuss them in an interview.
That’s what they’re testing for: Some evidence that the candidate is familiar enough with the API or framework to discuss it. They’re not drilling you on the order of arguments to an obscure function, they just want you to show them you’re familiar with it.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
I get your point. Honestly my issue is less about the content of the technical interview but rather when it was done. Because the interview was about familiarity it tests your memory, understanding and how good can you explain them. And in explaining you need the right/technical words which I needed a refresher on since I took a gap year. But I wasn't able to do the latter because they didn't inform me i'm up for technical. In my head we should be discussing financial expectations first at least an idea of it.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
Tech interviews have technical questions. Assume every stage will have technical questions unless they say otherwise.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
Yea I would reflect on that.
TwoFoldApproach@reddit
Potential vibe coder detected :)
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
So do you not google ever? Visited stackoverflow when you lack understanding of certain things? Read online publications about system designs?
Successful-Actuary74@reddit
What you are saying makes no sense. In a world where there are multiple people competing for the opportunity, why would they choose you as opposed to the candidate who does have the knowledge at their fingertips without googling?
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
I think you misunderstood. I mentioned the googling part in order to make a point that when we build things we don't memorize. And I don't mind being asked about concepts. What I largely mind was the fact I wasn't informed I'm getting into technical and we haven't discussed expectations on salary and compensation.
Successful-Actuary74@reddit
The ambushing is a little strange. But again when there is a glut of candidates companies will always choose candidates that have specifics at their fingertips over those that don't.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
Yes I do understand your point. I'm not considering myself the best candidate. I would have also walked away if I know I'm not qualified to solve their problems. But I ask for at least some thoughtfulness on the time and effort candidates give by taking them through properly.
Successful-Actuary74@reddit
Get used to it. There's a lot of poor behavior out there. I was ghosted after verbally being told I would be offered a position.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
Yeah. I agree. I posted here not to share hate, but rather remind everyone to be as thoughtful as possible when are in the position.
valence_engineer@reddit
Always ask what the interviews will be like or what they'll cover if it's not specified. Recruiters and hiring managers are human. You are one of thousands for them, and things will fall through the cracks.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
Yes I will be more proactive on that. Honestly when I came in the call still nobody mentioned about it being a technical interview. I had to ask. And before we start I told them I wasn't informed and got no reactions.
I understand hiring manager duties are commonly additional workload. I've had good experiences and bad. Unfortunately this one's the latter. I'm not hating the system I'm sharing this to air out frustrations and also to remind hiring managers to be thoughtful as much as you can to candidates. Sometimes people forget.
SnooSquirrels8097@reddit
So basically you took a tech interview without doing any prep
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
I wasn't told it's going to be a technical interview. And they also haven't discussed with me the possible compensation and benefits of the role. So I assumed the latter was the agenda for our second meeting.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
If you apply for a tech job, you should expect a technical interview.
If you want to discuss compensation and benefits right away, you need to ask those questions rather than waiting around for them to come up.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
I know there's technical. I just want to know when. And I did ask about compensation. They set a meeting after that so I assumed that was the agenda. That's my fault for not confirming but I guess not doing so already gave me an idea how they handle people.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
You should assume every interview stage will involve technical questions unless they say otherwise. The only exception might be the initial call with someone who is a designated recruiter, but some companies will have technical questions in the initial screening call too.
Let’s be honest: Knowing that technical questions were going to be asked wouldn’t have changed this situation. You have been out of development for a year and you need to re-immerse yourself in the work to prepare for interviews.
This interview was a gift: You got to see how interviews go and now you know that you need to prepare for the next ones.
HQMorganstern@reddit
If you had a compensation discussion that would leave you what, one week to prep for the coming tech interview? Don't get me wrong there's no shame in not wanting to push hard for this particular company, they're obviously not that interested in you.
But in your ideal world you're still facing a technical interview, where questions about high - level software design concepts such as best practices or even certain APIs will be present.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
The high level concept interviews are acceptable to me but you have to inform the candidate that they are up for technical. If they did I would have done a refresher and perhaps reiterated to discuss financial expectations first.
HQMorganstern@reddit
Yes, in that specific situation you are not really in the wrong, though you are certainly optimistic to think there will be an interview without a technical component, and as others have indicated companies usually negotiate salary after they know they want you.
However, you would do well to get started on that refresher now. Even if you interview for a company that respects your time and has a non-leetcode interview process you will be up against people who did not take a year long hiatus, it's entirely unlikely that a week or even two would be enough to brush up on concepts sufficiently.
valence_engineer@reddit
If you care about those then ask or just use levels.fyi. In general, specific comp comes after the interview because they don't know what level you'll get assigned until then.
90% of tech jobs involved writing CRUD apps. If you can't tolerate the BS of interviews then you're going to have a lot of trouble tolerating the BS of the job itself. Filtering for people who will put up with BS and put the effort into something that provides them a ton of value (ie: a job) even if it's boring is somewhat sensible for most companies.
The best jobs that involve interesting work you get through referrals and practicing the interview BS enough to be very good at it. Even then those jobs are going to have a decent amount of boring work and BS, so if people see you as not being amenable to that they won't recommend you unless you're really really brilliant.
local-person-nc@reddit
The only thing that sounds lazy here is you thinking you could just jump right back into the interview game being out so long. Classic ego 🤡
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
I won't prep for something that I don't know what I'll get. I had experienced where the company wasn't honest about the compensation and made me believe they can match after all the time and effort I put in.
local-person-nc@reddit
I'm guessing you've only worked one job and you got that easy back when things were easy as pie. You're in for a world of hurt.
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
I've done take home technical exams, online coding exams and panel interviews. All of them were nerve wracking but I had a good time. So unfortunately you are making wrong assumptions.
local-person-nc@reddit
You need to work on your soft skills
patatasnisarah@reddit (OP)
Perhaps