do you actually think butcoin is used more in illegal activities than the liquidity from cartels and arms dealers which use deutschebank? you gotta be really retarded to believe that bro
yes. There is an official EU report detailing that the last banking crisis would have literally bankrupted multiple huge banks if it wasnt for hundreds of billions of liquidity from black markets and drug trade from cartels. This crypto shit is chump change compared to missing trillions that were recorded in wtc7
I don't like cash, it's weird that we let some kings draw something on paper and decide how much coins it is worth. I think we all should use coins instead of that "cash"
correct. this is pretty much what i said when i was explaining to someone what bitcoin was. they were like “but it’s not real.” i said “gold is just a shiny piece of metal that someone stuck a value on” its all the same thing. everything is worthless until its worth something
First of all gold indeed has usefulness since literally every device you're using these days has gold in it so there's already inherent value. Secondly paper money is backed by governments, militaries, people in order to maintain societies and countries.
Bitcoin so far has been used to money launder and scam, the inherent value of BTC is crime, and crime is currently worth over 100k because crime indeed pays.
Yeah, and he also just got "gifted" a flying palace and had Vietnam approve a 1.4 billion resort. I don't think the problem there lies with crypto mate
It's not even that good for crime anymore. Traceless cash is still the king for crime. The FBI has gotten really good at tracing the blockchain and nearly every exchange requires KYC now, so if you still think BTC is a better medium for crime you're uninformed. Nearly every large ransomware attack paid in BTC gets traced by the authorities and is often recovered nowadays.
The main thing BTC has going for IMO is the ability for immigrants to send home remittances to their families bypassing international banking fees. Those types of transactions often take 3-5 business days as well, making BTC quicker for that use case. And those family members can hold in BTC until needed as well. BTC may be volatile as shit, but for some countries with terrible runaway inflation BTC is a better place to park their cash.
I remember seeing something on the dark net around 2016. First, let me say I'm 100% certain this was a scam. But the pictures were large amounts of cash (20k+) hidden inside a planter, under a grate on the road, stuck under a bench. They were offering to buy BitCoin for cash, obviously with a heavy fee onto. Although that was a scam I guess, I'm sure someone out there offers this service.
Bypassing KYC is the easiest shit in the world, and tracing BTC is impossible to a person once it has been mixed is impossible. Think of hiding account in panama on an infinitely bigger scale.
That's like saying the government is cracking down on Bitcoin, its not possible. Sure you can take down a service or two like you can take down an exchange, it's still going to exist.
Sure you can take down a service or two like you can take down an exchange, it's still going to exist
This is also true of literally any other money laundering business/service. Obviously you can't catch them all. But it's no better or worse than cash in this regard.
The FBI has gotten really good at tracing the blockchain
Can't you just exchange to XMR or some other untracable currency(and then swap back to btc if you have to)? As for KYC, there are probably ways to bypass it. For example p2p crypto exchanges are quite popular where I live. Granted, it's a third world country and those kind of things are probably watched more closely in the West
And the idea that Bitcoin is "crime" is just retarded. Sure it has a use case for crime because governments can't control the network but you're just conceding the point.
Bitcoin gets all of its value from the consensus network it's built on. Bitcoin is just a glorified excel spreadsheet, that is spread out across lots of computers. There is some debate about how truly decentralized it is because of the existence of mining pools.
If you don't understand how significant a truly decentralized ledger is for the benefit of society, you probably should read some history.
Again all currencies are completely made up. Bitcoin is just the first digitally sound one.
Maybe you are just stupid. You cant buy groceries with gold either. Whether or not your local grocery store accepts it has nothing to do with whether its sound currency or not.
It does. It functions as a payment network in addition to being a currency and a store of value.
Think about how Visa is worth close to $700 billion, because it facilitates money transfers. This has nothing to do with the actual dollars it's transferring, which have their own value.
Bitcoin's value is derived from its usefulness. The more It's used, the more demand there is for Bitcoin.
It's useful as a currency (think cash), as a store of value (think gold), and as a payment network (think Visa or PayPal).
I was being sarcastic to the guy because he has been obnoxiously arguing with other commenters, but thanks for the detailed explanation, probably better than snark tbh!
Okay. Bitcoin is backed by people's belief in its value. Money is backed by people's belief in its value AND evert single government and corporation in the world. I know which looks more secure to me tbh
The problem with that is if the respective country fails then so does the currency. For example the Deutsche Mark or the Zimbabwe dollar went from having value to being worthless. One of the ideas behind BTC is that it's a global currency that isn't tied to a single nation similar to gold but easier to manage.
Some also consider it to be somewhat of a hedge for inflation as the even the almighty USD has significantly depreciated over the last few decades. I keep most of my net worth tied up in equities as a result but I also have a small amount of BTC because why not.
Money is backed by people's belief in its value AND every single government and corporation in the world
Well no, the concept of money might be but the actual specific currencies are not. Anyone who is an adult has literally seen multiple currencies collapse within their lifetime, it's not even that rare.
The backer of individual currencies is the central bank or equivalent institution in the issuing country. If they shit the bed (like Iceland's central bank in 2008) then the currency goes down with them. If they really fuck it then you get a situation like Zimbabwe where not only did the currency collapse but all subsequent attempts are dead on arrival due to the lack of confidence.
Ok but the difference is there is a finite amount of gold on the planet, we can’t make more gold out of thin air, that’s what gives it value. Fiat currency has value because it’s basically an IOU backed by the government promising you that it will be worth something that everyone agrees is worth something. Crypto is worth something because you can convert it into real money so long as people keep saying it’s worth real money… my biggest problem with it is that most people won’t take it as payment in itself, which makes it a pretty shit currency.
The reason coins held value is because of it useful properties, which is metal you needed metal to create things from farm tools, kitchen tools, and more even as weapons. But yes cash was created base on what we decided, but because how things work it became an inconvenience carrying money so we have banks/exchange to hold our money, cash was something way lighter than coins, it was an exchange between value of things so you could carry hundreds of pennies in the pocket, or carry same amount with few dollar bills.
Now fast forward metal as more useful, with demand, it never stop being a demand due to always making products using metal, we use metal in crap to of things, and rely heavily in electronics.
Crypto about same as cash, created, someone deem it to value like cash, has no real purpose. Thing is electronic money already exists before crypto, or Bitcoin, the major difference bank/exchange control transfer of money, while everyone has a public Ledger of Bitcoin for verification. Funny enough crypto basically still getting pushed under controlled by bank, and exchange. Almost like nothing changed, with some differences.
What's valuable in crypto is that someone is expending electrical energy to run a processor to cryptographically verify the continued function of the network, allowing for effectively trustless exchange. It's actually about the closest we've come yet to using money as a direct proxy for energy.
The limit on the number of bitcoins is goofy Libertarian fear of inflation and many coins don't have such.
yeah but due to all the rugpulls its poisoned the technology underneath it. There exists a way to create sortition based elections(instead of voting) that would remove the ability of money or foreign shitposting to influence the outcome.
You couldn't build a physical ball machine with numbers equal to your population so you needed a digital means by which was publicly verifiably random. Crypto lets you do it
Cryptocurrency and blockchain technology both have a lot of potential, but have definitely been poisoned by the surrounding culture.
That said, there's essentially a 0% chance of a rugpull with the established coins. The bigger worry as I understand is that Tether is poorly constructed house of cards that could very well crash the whole thing.
Welcome to how currency works. We traded stuff until a local leader made a system they swore by by putting their face on shiny rocks and said it had value because it easier to carry than lots of things. We valued those shiny rocks enough we consider it the standard and made paper with their faces on it to represent a fraction of it we own. Now that's just digitized. It only works because we believe it does.
Currency works on a relatively stable basis, shitcoins quickly became commodities to trade themselves. The only trade happening for real currency is in pairs on forex. And certain pairs there can be equally volatile
BTC is and will be the biggest scam of the government after the fiat system. It´s just unbelievable how many people are throwing their really good intentions and ideas over board for some more fiat script in their bank accounts. Everyone wanted a system which was secure and anonymous, but what did we get? A system which is making everyone rich by pumping up another fiat denominated bubble and everyone shuts up about the premises why they all invested in the idea. And they pull the rug, everyone will be "yeah it was obvious yada yada".
Everything humans create isn't worth anything except to us humans, we're the ones who put value on it.
For example, a tin opener - 99.999999...% of the universe (or even animals on Earth) doesn't need a tin opener but us humans create them and sell them to each other for a couple of (insert local currency) therefore it is worth something to us because it makes our lives easier.
You can apply that same logic to anything.
For millennia humans have tried to find a way of trading across borders and languages, whether it's silk or metal or food - hundreds of times we've created systems that try to make this easier for us. Whether it's by creating silver and gold coins or currency or simply agreeing that 1 cow = 1000 potatoes.
However, time and time again these systems have failed. Firstly, the cow for potato has failed because one year it doesn't rain as much so potatoes don't grow and therefore there aren't as many to sell, so now 1 cow = 10000 potato. With gold and silver coins, a new deposit is found and the amount in existence grows which makes the existing gold coins worth less because someone can just mint more. With currency this is literally happening every minute - governments/banks are creating debt to create interest which means the amount of money in circulation goes up which means your money becomes worth less. It's simple economics.
Coming onto Bitcoin - all of a sudden we have the Internet, a internationally recognised & accessible network where person A in one country can connect with person B thousands of miles away. Bitcoin is an protocol of that network which allows person A to send person B "value" (Bitcoin) . No middleman, 100% trust, 100% irrefutable and 100% secure.
It's a game changer for trade, it's what humans have been trying to create for thousands of years. And unlike Gold or Silver there are only so many, so noone can create more. It's the most beautiful example of fundamental maths ever applied to the financial sector.
Nah fiat definitely is but that's because more people using fiat. The difference with fiat is it's untraceable whereas Bitcoin is fully traceable - maybe not to an identity but to a wallet.
And why are both possible? - Because humans are stupid, we are deceived easily due to fear or confusion and other people prey on that.
Bitcoin is fully traceable - maybe not to an identity but to a wallet.
There are simple ways around that. Fiat does have a paper trail which while imperfect are infinitely more secure than crypto.
And why are both possible? - Because humans are stupid, we are deceived easily due to fear or confusion and other people prey on that.
Yeah and we created systems and regulations that mitigate that only to give the god mode cheat with a dumbass coin. BTC value is tied to crime, money laundering and theft are highly proftiable so it's on 100k. Congrats on the amazing new invention.
We've created a system where idiots get scammed and the banks we use just give them their money back out of the money they make from the rest of us in interest payments ... Most of the time the scammer still keeps the money.
Why is it on me to explain why the random things you made up in your head aren't real? You just made up random bullshit based on how you believe it works, how about not doing that?
So widowed Ms Brown who lost her & her husband's life savings to Pajeet in a elaborate romance scam either through bank transfers, gift cards or sending cash - in the UK gets up to £75k of her money back.
Everything humans create isn't worth anything except to us humans, we're the ones who put value on it.
Correct, that a fact, that the bottom-line. But we all value things not the same, as you may value Beanie Babies, I see it just toys that worth nothing.
For example, a tin opener - 99.999999...% of the universe (or even animals on Earth) doesn't need a tin opener but us humans create them and sell them to each other for a couple of (insert local currency). It is worth something to us because it makes our lives easier.
Not great example, but we human created the CAN, and created the CAN opener, while could just incorporate seal can be pulled to open the CAN without the CAN opener. Reason is cutting cost on that "incorporation" of making it pull tab, saving them few cents per CAN, this scale by the X sold of CANs to Y amount you save, example 5 cent a CAN, save $1 every 20 CANs sold, $10 every 200 CANs, $100 every 2000 CANs and you get the point how cutting corners works. Marketing finds away to sell a product people want, or need to boost sales.
While humans find ways to make life easier, or solve problems, it doesn't mean humans won't find ways to make profit off something, or others.
You can apply that same logic to anything.
For millennia humans have tried to find a way of trading across borders and languages, whether it's silk or metal or food - hundreds of times we've created systems that try to make this easier for us. Whether it's by creating silver and gold coins or currency or simply agreeing that 1 cow = 1000 potatoes.
However, time and time again these systems have failed. Firstly, the cow for potato has failed because one year it doesn't rain as much so potatoes don't grow and therefore there aren't as many to sell, so now 1 cow = 10000 potato. With gold and silver coins, a new deposit is found and the amount in existence grows which makes the existing gold coins worth less because someone can just mint more. With currency this is literally happening every minute - governments/banks are creating debt to create interest which means the amount of money in circulation goes up which means your money becomes worth less. It's simple economics.
This is why we MOVED away from old barbaric bartering to creating currency in it place to make it EASIER to bartering to help maintain some kind of value in those items, or ease off on drawback. See we can go back to trading potatoes, but it ROTS, and doesn't last long, while cow can live for many years. Money is something that doesn't rot, or age, it only created as value for bartering. While value of things fluctuate, it can be due to inflation, SUPPLY & DEMAND, taxes, tariffs, and so on. Even with old barbaric bartering it still had issue with inflation hence if had bad crop year, you raise that value what is worth, and say NOW 1 cow = 700 potatoes, or one year when grow too much 1 cow = 1200 potatoes, so get the point. Yes, when have more of something made the less value it is, the less of something made, the more value it is, that simple.
nice for telling me you can repeat college knowledge. Humans have and will always use credit not equity for buying and selling. Maybe you will get that someday.
Bitcoin is actually a scheme for time travelers to make huge amounts of money, think about it for a second. At the beginning of bitcoin you can invest as much or as little on it as you want (and it doesn't even matter where it came from) and you just have to sell and buy at the few predetermined points. You'll even be totally anonymous while doing it.
I only made a few hundred bucks early on, but I feel the same. It was also dead to me as soon as I needed to give KYC info to trade it in any meaningful way. Despite any court rulings, at that point it's just a security with extra steps and I'm better off with option trades if I want to gamble.
This is why I Monero is godsend but I often trade p2p in person.
I also live in Miami so it's easier.
it's not for everyone, for average person making plans for crypto is like making plans for casino wins.
Nobody is buying property and shares from their crypto gains, at best they'll buy urus and lease a high fly condo and at worse all of their liquid money will be in their nose, veins and condoms.
nikoll-toma@reddit
i like how shitcoins are literally only valuable because of money laundering and illegal activities that can be done using them
Katzenpower@reddit
The dollar is actually the currency with the most illegal activity going on bro. By far
LevSmash@reddit
But by percentage of the total in circulation?
DrKoofBratomMD@reddit
A very simple litmus test for retards is to see if they understand the concept of per capita
It’s like those people who you ask “how would you feel if you didn’t eat breakfast this morning” and all they can say is “but I did eat breakfast?”
Katzenpower@reddit
do you actually think butcoin is used more in illegal activities than the liquidity from cartels and arms dealers which use deutschebank? you gotta be really retarded to believe that bro
Katzenpower@reddit
yes. There is an official EU report detailing that the last banking crisis would have literally bankrupted multiple huge banks if it wasnt for hundreds of billions of liquidity from black markets and drug trade from cartels. This crypto shit is chump change compared to missing trillions that were recorded in wtc7
nikoll-toma@reddit
dont hurt him too much
Equal-Change9509@reddit
How dare you attack my imaginary money!
Harizovblike@reddit
I don't like cash, it's weird that we let some kings draw something on paper and decide how much coins it is worth. I think we all should use coins instead of that "cash"
Equal-Change9509@reddit
Cope lol, cash is backed up by whole goverments, ur crypto is backed up by "trust me bros"
WorkerClass@reddit
First there was no cash, then someone printed stuff on a piece of paper.
Fill in all the rest with cash and you have the same thing. Money has no real value other than what we've decided it has.
Hammer_0@reddit
correct. this is pretty much what i said when i was explaining to someone what bitcoin was. they were like “but it’s not real.” i said “gold is just a shiny piece of metal that someone stuck a value on” its all the same thing. everything is worthless until its worth something
Redditry119@reddit
First of all gold indeed has usefulness since literally every device you're using these days has gold in it so there's already inherent value. Secondly paper money is backed by governments, militaries, people in order to maintain societies and countries.
Bitcoin so far has been used to money launder and scam, the inherent value of BTC is crime, and crime is currently worth over 100k because crime indeed pays.
KneebTheCowardly@reddit
Yeah yeah we know reddit hates bitcoin. Shutup and stay poor
sofa_adviser@reddit
Oh no, a currency that the gobernment cannot strip you of nor control how you spend, what a horror
Redditry119@reddit
The US president is literally scamming people with crypto lmao
sofa_adviser@reddit
Yeah, and he also just got "gifted" a flying palace and had Vietnam approve a 1.4 billion resort. I don't think the problem there lies with crypto mate
Redditry119@reddit
Yeah and you know the exact value of the plane and the legal system needs to combat it, now do you know how much he made from crypto?
Skepsis93@reddit
It's not even that good for crime anymore. Traceless cash is still the king for crime. The FBI has gotten really good at tracing the blockchain and nearly every exchange requires KYC now, so if you still think BTC is a better medium for crime you're uninformed. Nearly every large ransomware attack paid in BTC gets traced by the authorities and is often recovered nowadays.
The main thing BTC has going for IMO is the ability for immigrants to send home remittances to their families bypassing international banking fees. Those types of transactions often take 3-5 business days as well, making BTC quicker for that use case. And those family members can hold in BTC until needed as well. BTC may be volatile as shit, but for some countries with terrible runaway inflation BTC is a better place to park their cash.
OliverMonster1@reddit
I remember seeing something on the dark net around 2016. First, let me say I'm 100% certain this was a scam. But the pictures were large amounts of cash (20k+) hidden inside a planter, under a grate on the road, stuck under a bench. They were offering to buy BitCoin for cash, obviously with a heavy fee onto. Although that was a scam I guess, I'm sure someone out there offers this service.
Redditry119@reddit
Bypassing KYC is the easiest shit in the world, and tracing BTC is impossible to a person once it has been mixed is impossible. Think of hiding account in panama on an infinitely bigger scale.
Skepsis93@reddit
Most government's are cracking down on mixers too, because it's the last way to effectively launder BTC funds.
Redditry119@reddit
That's like saying the government is cracking down on Bitcoin, its not possible. Sure you can take down a service or two like you can take down an exchange, it's still going to exist.
Skepsis93@reddit
This is also true of literally any other money laundering business/service. Obviously you can't catch them all. But it's no better or worse than cash in this regard.
sofa_adviser@reddit
Can't you just exchange to XMR or some other untracable currency(and then swap back to btc if you have to)? As for KYC, there are probably ways to bypass it. For example p2p crypto exchanges are quite popular where I live. Granted, it's a third world country and those kind of things are probably watched more closely in the West
MyDogsNameIsSam@reddit
Golds primary use is still a store of value.
And the idea that Bitcoin is "crime" is just retarded. Sure it has a use case for crime because governments can't control the network but you're just conceding the point.
Bitcoin gets all of its value from the consensus network it's built on. Bitcoin is just a glorified excel spreadsheet, that is spread out across lots of computers. There is some debate about how truly decentralized it is because of the existence of mining pools.
If you don't understand how significant a truly decentralized ledger is for the benefit of society, you probably should read some history.
Again all currencies are completely made up. Bitcoin is just the first digitally sound one.
Redditry119@reddit
Oh so go ahead, besides crime what is BTC used for. I'm waiting.
MyDogsNameIsSam@reddit
Are you dumb? What is any sound currency used for? The only thing it can't do, that the dollar can, is be used to pay taxes to the US government.
I don't even own any Bitcoin but anyone with a brain knows this stuff.
Redditry119@reddit
Really it can do everything the dollar can? Can it buy groceries at the store outside my house?
MyDogsNameIsSam@reddit
Maybe you are just stupid. You cant buy groceries with gold either. Whether or not your local grocery store accepts it has nothing to do with whether its sound currency or not.
Redditry119@reddit
Nice pivot
MyDogsNameIsSam@reddit
It's not a pivot. You just brought up an irrelevant point about bitcoin not being accepted at your grocery store. Neither is gold.
Redditry119@reddit
But you compared it to fiat not gold you absolute regard
MetalGearXerox@reddit
so you're saying BTC has usefullness?
Zalwol@reddit
It does. It functions as a payment network in addition to being a currency and a store of value.
Think about how Visa is worth close to $700 billion, because it facilitates money transfers. This has nothing to do with the actual dollars it's transferring, which have their own value.
Bitcoin's value is derived from its usefulness. The more It's used, the more demand there is for Bitcoin.
It's useful as a currency (think cash), as a store of value (think gold), and as a payment network (think Visa or PayPal).
MetalGearXerox@reddit
I was being sarcastic to the guy because he has been obnoxiously arguing with other commenters, but thanks for the detailed explanation, probably better than snark tbh!
PrrrromotionGiven1@reddit
Okay. Bitcoin is backed by people's belief in its value. Money is backed by people's belief in its value AND evert single government and corporation in the world. I know which looks more secure to me tbh
Sharky-Li@reddit
The problem with that is if the respective country fails then so does the currency. For example the Deutsche Mark or the Zimbabwe dollar went from having value to being worthless. One of the ideas behind BTC is that it's a global currency that isn't tied to a single nation similar to gold but easier to manage.
Some also consider it to be somewhat of a hedge for inflation as the even the almighty USD has significantly depreciated over the last few decades. I keep most of my net worth tied up in equities as a result but I also have a small amount of BTC because why not.
Splash_Attack@reddit
Well no, the concept of money might be but the actual specific currencies are not. Anyone who is an adult has literally seen multiple currencies collapse within their lifetime, it's not even that rare.
The backer of individual currencies is the central bank or equivalent institution in the issuing country. If they shit the bed (like Iceland's central bank in 2008) then the currency goes down with them. If they really fuck it then you get a situation like Zimbabwe where not only did the currency collapse but all subsequent attempts are dead on arrival due to the lack of confidence.
fvgh12345@reddit
You can hold gold in your hands and make things out of it, just those two things alone gives it more real world value than digital coins
yobob591@reddit
Ok but the difference is there is a finite amount of gold on the planet, we can’t make more gold out of thin air, that’s what gives it value. Fiat currency has value because it’s basically an IOU backed by the government promising you that it will be worth something that everyone agrees is worth something. Crypto is worth something because you can convert it into real money so long as people keep saying it’s worth real money… my biggest problem with it is that most people won’t take it as payment in itself, which makes it a pretty shit currency.
MechwolfMachina@reddit
How many times do we invent debt representing debt representing debt until its all fucked?
Hammer_0@reddit
ring ring hello it’s 2008, just wanted to see how things were going
Samsterdam@reddit
Money is the physical manifestation of time. So, if you think about it like that, money can be anything really.
philmarcracken@reddit
it could even be a boat
Samsterdam@reddit
One can dream, one can dream.
shadowds@reddit
Technical it was coins, then cash.
The reason coins held value is because of it useful properties, which is metal you needed metal to create things from farm tools, kitchen tools, and more even as weapons. But yes cash was created base on what we decided, but because how things work it became an inconvenience carrying money so we have banks/exchange to hold our money, cash was something way lighter than coins, it was an exchange between value of things so you could carry hundreds of pennies in the pocket, or carry same amount with few dollar bills.
Now fast forward metal as more useful, with demand, it never stop being a demand due to always making products using metal, we use metal in crap to of things, and rely heavily in electronics.
Crypto about same as cash, created, someone deem it to value like cash, has no real purpose. Thing is electronic money already exists before crypto, or Bitcoin, the major difference bank/exchange control transfer of money, while everyone has a public Ledger of Bitcoin for verification. Funny enough crypto basically still getting pushed under controlled by bank, and exchange. Almost like nothing changed, with some differences.
D0D@reddit
Every big system seems to create a dead man's switch for itself. Goverments/taxastion - money, international banking - credit, internet - bitcoin ...
PrivilegeCheckmate@reddit
Nothing has objective value. In ~4 BN years the sun blows up. Until then get your kicks, fellas.
kaninkanon@reddit
Cope. Real money is tied to the economy of the country that prints it. Memecoins are make-believe.
Patkros@reddit
Is cumrocket "... legal tender for all debts, public and private".?
WorkerClass@reddit
Depends, are you someone who is attractive?
Guillaume-Francois@reddit
What's valuable in crypto is that someone is expending electrical energy to run a processor to cryptographically verify the continued function of the network, allowing for effectively trustless exchange. It's actually about the closest we've come yet to using money as a direct proxy for energy.
The limit on the number of bitcoins is goofy Libertarian fear of inflation and many coins don't have such.
philmarcracken@reddit
yeah but due to all the rugpulls its poisoned the technology underneath it. There exists a way to create sortition based elections(instead of voting) that would remove the ability of money or foreign shitposting to influence the outcome.
You couldn't build a physical ball machine with numbers equal to your population so you needed a digital means by which was publicly verifiably random. Crypto lets you do it
Guillaume-Francois@reddit
Cryptocurrency and blockchain technology both have a lot of potential, but have definitely been poisoned by the surrounding culture.
That said, there's essentially a 0% chance of a rugpull with the established coins. The bigger worry as I understand is that Tether is poorly constructed house of cards that could very well crash the whole thing.
Richard1583@reddit
Ask a person who owns crypto if you can hold a coin
futainflation@reddit
currency is the devil whether it's invisible digital shit or cloth paper shit or round metal shit. begone!!!
Futanarihime@reddit
MONEY AIN'T REAL MONEY AIN'T REAL MONEY AIN'T REAL
futainflation@reddit
words to live by
Alexastria@reddit
Welcome to how currency works. We traded stuff until a local leader made a system they swore by by putting their face on shiny rocks and said it had value because it easier to carry than lots of things. We valued those shiny rocks enough we consider it the standard and made paper with their faces on it to represent a fraction of it we own. Now that's just digitized. It only works because we believe it does.
philmarcracken@reddit
Currency works on a relatively stable basis, shitcoins quickly became commodities to trade themselves. The only trade happening for real currency is in pairs on forex. And certain pairs there can be equally volatile
Falkus_Kibre@reddit
BTC is and will be the biggest scam of the government after the fiat system. It´s just unbelievable how many people are throwing their really good intentions and ideas over board for some more fiat script in their bank accounts. Everyone wanted a system which was secure and anonymous, but what did we get? A system which is making everyone rich by pumping up another fiat denominated bubble and everyone shuts up about the premises why they all invested in the idea. And they pull the rug, everyone will be "yeah it was obvious yada yada".
WanderingLemon25@reddit
I don't think you get it mate.
Everything humans create isn't worth anything except to us humans, we're the ones who put value on it.
For example, a tin opener - 99.999999...% of the universe (or even animals on Earth) doesn't need a tin opener but us humans create them and sell them to each other for a couple of (insert local currency) therefore it is worth something to us because it makes our lives easier.
You can apply that same logic to anything.
For millennia humans have tried to find a way of trading across borders and languages, whether it's silk or metal or food - hundreds of times we've created systems that try to make this easier for us. Whether it's by creating silver and gold coins or currency or simply agreeing that 1 cow = 1000 potatoes.
However, time and time again these systems have failed. Firstly, the cow for potato has failed because one year it doesn't rain as much so potatoes don't grow and therefore there aren't as many to sell, so now 1 cow = 10000 potato. With gold and silver coins, a new deposit is found and the amount in existence grows which makes the existing gold coins worth less because someone can just mint more. With currency this is literally happening every minute - governments/banks are creating debt to create interest which means the amount of money in circulation goes up which means your money becomes worth less. It's simple economics.
Coming onto Bitcoin - all of a sudden we have the Internet, a internationally recognised & accessible network where person A in one country can connect with person B thousands of miles away. Bitcoin is an protocol of that network which allows person A to send person B "value" (Bitcoin) . No middleman, 100% trust, 100% irrefutable and 100% secure.
It's a game changer for trade, it's what humans have been trying to create for thousands of years. And unlike Gold or Silver there are only so many, so noone can create more. It's the most beautiful example of fundamental maths ever applied to the financial sector.
Get it whilst it's cheap.
Redditry119@reddit
And yet it is the biggest and best tool for theft and scams the world has ever known. Curious.
Justmyextraccount@reddit
Bro you could say the same thing about normal cash lmao bad argument
WanderingLemon25@reddit
Nah fiat definitely is but that's because more people using fiat. The difference with fiat is it's untraceable whereas Bitcoin is fully traceable - maybe not to an identity but to a wallet.
And why are both possible? - Because humans are stupid, we are deceived easily due to fear or confusion and other people prey on that.
Redditry119@reddit
There are simple ways around that. Fiat does have a paper trail which while imperfect are infinitely more secure than crypto.
Yeah and we created systems and regulations that mitigate that only to give the god mode cheat with a dumbass coin. BTC value is tied to crime, money laundering and theft are highly proftiable so it's on 100k. Congrats on the amazing new invention.
WanderingLemon25@reddit
We've created a system where idiots get scammed and the banks we use just give them their money back out of the money they make from the rest of us in interest payments ... Most of the time the scammer still keeps the money.
Redditry119@reddit
That's not how any of this works...for the love of god if you're financially illiterate stop spewing random shit.
WanderingLemon25@reddit
Rather than a condescending prick tell us how it works then ...
Redditry119@reddit
Why is it on me to explain why the random things you made up in your head aren't real? You just made up random bullshit based on how you believe it works, how about not doing that?
WanderingLemon25@reddit
So widowed Ms Brown who lost her & her husband's life savings to Pajeet in a elaborate romance scam either through bank transfers, gift cards or sending cash - in the UK gets up to £75k of her money back.
Who do you think pays that?
Because it doesn't just appear out of thin air.
Redditry119@reddit
And during the process the bank begs Ms Brown to not do that every step of the way
WanderingLemon25@reddit
Right? My hardware wallet does even better.
sofa_adviser@reddit
Any good enough tool will be a double-edged sword
A weapon good enough for self defense will be good enough to mug someone
Tor is good enough to allow you to escape surveillance and that's exactly what makes it so attractive to drug dealers, cp etc
Crypto allows you to avoid the governments tracing and freezing your funds, and that's what makes it attractive to scams, money laundering etc
Personally I believe any such tool is well worth the tradeoffs, since the greatest crimes throughout history have been committed by the state
Rowannn@reddit
just put the fries in the bag bro
WanderingLemon25@reddit
Fair enough, I'm currently sat on 10k profit off an initial 500 but I'm the one who's retarded.
_witness_me@reddit
Wildly up & down all over the place
shadowds@reddit
Correct, that a fact, that the bottom-line. But we all value things not the same, as you may value Beanie Babies, I see it just toys that worth nothing.
Not great example, but we human created the CAN, and created the CAN opener, while could just incorporate seal can be pulled to open the CAN without the CAN opener. Reason is cutting cost on that "incorporation" of making it pull tab, saving them few cents per CAN, this scale by the X sold of CANs to Y amount you save, example 5 cent a CAN, save $1 every 20 CANs sold, $10 every 200 CANs, $100 every 2000 CANs and you get the point how cutting corners works. Marketing finds away to sell a product people want, or need to boost sales.
While humans find ways to make life easier, or solve problems, it doesn't mean humans won't find ways to make profit off something, or others.
However, time and time again these systems have failed. Firstly, the cow for potato has failed because one year it doesn't rain as much so potatoes don't grow and therefore there aren't as many to sell, so now 1 cow = 10000 potato. With gold and silver coins, a new deposit is found and the amount in existence grows which makes the existing gold coins worth less because someone can just mint more. With currency this is literally happening every minute - governments/banks are creating debt to create interest which means the amount of money in circulation goes up which means your money becomes worth less. It's simple economics.
This is why we MOVED away from old barbaric bartering to creating currency in it place to make it EASIER to bartering to help maintain some kind of value in those items, or ease off on drawback. See we can go back to trading potatoes, but it ROTS, and doesn't last long, while cow can live for many years. Money is something that doesn't rot, or age, it only created as value for bartering. While value of things fluctuate, it can be due to inflation, SUPPLY & DEMAND, taxes, tariffs, and so on. Even with old barbaric bartering it still had issue with inflation hence if had bad crop year, you raise that value what is worth, and say NOW 1 cow = 700 potatoes, or one year when grow too much 1 cow = 1200 potatoes, so get the point. Yes, when have more of something made the less value it is, the less of something made, the more value it is, that simple.
born_2_be_a_bachelor@reddit
“everything humans create isn’t worth anything except to us humans”
Except food
WanderingLemon25@reddit
Food doesn't matter to 99.99999% of the universe.
Deathgripsugar@reddit
I ain’t reading all that
WanderingLemon25@reddit
Just come back in 9 months when you're still poor.
Falkus_Kibre@reddit
nice for telling me you can repeat college knowledge. Humans have and will always use credit not equity for buying and selling. Maybe you will get that someday.
WanderingLemon25@reddit
You do you. Im setting up myself a retirement fund.
le_sossurotta@reddit
Bitcoin is actually a scheme for time travelers to make huge amounts of money, think about it for a second. At the beginning of bitcoin you can invest as much or as little on it as you want (and it doesn't even matter where it came from) and you just have to sell and buy at the few predetermined points. You'll even be totally anonymous while doing it.
LowOwl4312@reddit
That's why you get Monero. Meant for payments, not getting rich because of convincing boomers to buy your stuff
Efficient_Rise_4140@reddit
>Looks at 5 year chart
>Incredibly unstable
Great currency! Can't wait to see if I can afford a yacht tomorrow or can't afford food.
sofa_adviser@reddit
There are stablecoins like USDT if you want a predictable value
wildyam@reddit
Well, you aren’t because you didn’t buy any.
aIhamdullilah@reddit
After making almost 90% of my worth with Cryptos and adjacent outlets, I absolutely despise it and hope it all burns down.
I don't know why, I have this irrational hatered towards these Blockchain technologies despite having invested most of my money in there
ZMowlcher@reddit
Is it because crypto bros are insufferable?
Legend13CNS@reddit
I only made a few hundred bucks early on, but I feel the same. It was also dead to me as soon as I needed to give KYC info to trade it in any meaningful way. Despite any court rulings, at that point it's just a security with extra steps and I'm better off with option trades if I want to gamble.
aIhamdullilah@reddit
This is why I Monero is godsend but I often trade p2p in person.
I also live in Miami so it's easier.
it's not for everyone, for average person making plans for crypto is like making plans for casino wins.
Nobody is buying property and shares from their crypto gains, at best they'll buy urus and lease a high fly condo and at worse all of their liquid money will be in their nose, veins and condoms.
wildyam@reddit
Classic ‘pull the ladder up behind you’ behaviour. You’re not a conservative by any chance are you?
aIhamdullilah@reddit
I am a borderline commie
wildyam@reddit
Clearly using the MAGAt term and understanding of the word ‘commie’
SpezsFavoriteBull@reddit
Go back to the default subs you crawled out of.
aIhamdullilah@reddit
Obviously, we are in 4chan subreddit but Honestly I am a leftist.
Krono5_8666V8@reddit
I only barter with bullets and water.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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BrocoliAssassin@reddit
The debt slaves are mad.
CervixAssassin@reddit
The most reasonable take on the subject.
aIhamdullilah@reddit
BTC is the scam to make rich even richer, the most visible form of Je*ery there is.
Far-Pause5890@reddit
KYC is annoying but if you really want to there’s definitely ways to get around it