Image of dead ‘white farmers’ came from Congo, not South Africa
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 197 comments
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 197 comments
__DraGooN_@reddit
This is so shameful what these media scumbags and Trump are trying to do.
Trump is pushing the "genocide" narrative, while the media is trying to discredit the entire thing as fake using technicalities.
"Lie! Those crosses are not burial sites! Orange man lie! Entire thing fake!"
On the South African road incorrectly identified as a 'burial site' by Trump
I'm not American or African. But, I have been reading about this issue for ages. South Africa is a broken country with an incredible wealth gap along racial lines. A large portion of blacks remain poor, while there have been many instances of the relatively wealthy whites being attacked. Hell, even the Indian community which occupies the middle ground, and owns a lot of small businesses have been the target of attacks and riots.
Discrimination based on skin colour is back and codified, except now it is "affirmative action" for the blacks. White South Africans have been leaving the country for decades now.
Why are white South Africans emigrating?
Current_Finding_4066@reddit
Do not over exaggerate. Many countries have lost a larger part of population simply due to poor economy.
Not saying there are no issues. But white population has been in charge of creation of wealth disparity, not the other way around.
And white person gas a much lower chance if getting killed, than a black one does. Like 7 times lower.
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
White South Africans still own 80 percent of the land in South Africa.
They make up less than 10 percent of the population.
I'd be mad too
RedditAdminAreVile0@reddit
essi25@reddit
This is demonstrably false. Only 30 % of land in South Africa is held by individuals, 24% are trusts, 23% is state owned, 19% is companies and 3% communities and the rest <1% is co owned. South Africa has a wealth inequality problem, largely also along racial lines. Spreading false information does not help address the root causes. Namely a lack of education funding and rampant corruption.
Sources: https://irr.org.za/reports/occasional-reports/files/who-owns-the-land-26-03-2018.pdf
https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/201802/landauditreport13feb2018.pdf
There is an argument to be made about white people being overrepresented in individual ownership. However the current Land Reform program is largely ineffective, as it is plagued by corruption. There is a problem of giving land to previously disadvantaged people, that do not have the knowledge to efficiently farm (especially large scale). There is very little government support to help these new farmers (education and financial)
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
https://actsa.org/the-facts-land-reform-in-south-africa/#:~:text=Currently%2072%25%20of%20farms%20and,land%20is%20unproductive%20and%20fallow.
IknowwhatIhave@reddit
Something nobody has mentioned is that a lot of the land is useless and has no value, either to the current owners or future hopeful owners.
There are some people who owns hundreds of thousands of acres because their ancestors drew a line around it during colonization - but it can't be used for anything, not housing, not farming, nothing.
So it's a bit a red herring to be A) be fighting to re-distribute it and B) counting it as an example of inequality.
Also, of the farm land that IS valuable, it is being used by the owners to feed the country, provide employment etc. It's not medieval horse and plow farming, it's highly advanced industrial agriculture.
Regardless of how unfair it is, taking it from professional, experienced large scale farmers and giving it to people who lack the ability to farm it is a how Zimbabwe went from "terrible wealth inequality" to failed state in 10-15 years.
Any land reforms need to be gradual and extremely delicate.
Darth_Syphilisll@reddit
Your own link says your wrong as does his link
Current_Finding_4066@reddit
More to the point. The land had been stolen.
The most asinine argument some morons make, is that if people (nomads) are moving from part of land to the other part of land, they have no claim.
So, I can take any of the rich peoples mansions they are not momentarily using?
I am sure those people still had the concept of territories they will use next, as their ancestors had been.
FUZxxl@reddit
How has the land been stolen? The boers have been in South Africa for longer than most of the black population. In particular, the biggest tribe in South Africa, the Zulus, arrived much later than the boers.
Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit
My dude, you are so wrong
FUZxxl@reddit
Please explain.
Current_Finding_4066@reddit
Why so you Germans have the tendency to stand in the wrong side, same with Israel
kitti-kin@reddit
Did you believe this was true when you wrote it?
HalayChekenKovboy@reddit
For anyone who actually believes this, please read this comment.
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
I mean, I support you taking a rich person's mansion bruh. Go ham.
They'd happily sell your property for monetary gains. Be ruthless
Current_Finding_4066@reddit
Nah, not paying them. It is abandoned mansion. I am claiming it. Maybe I can give some beads to smooth things over.
Safe-Consideration88@reddit
I think you forget how large South Africa is, the issue is not enough land but rather not enough wealth!
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
Land is a fairly good reflection of wealth. White South Africans hold a disproportionate amount of South Africas wealth. A fall out from colonial times
Safe-Consideration88@reddit
South African farmers are from Dutch decent and considered some of the best farmers in the world and seems a good reason why the large land mass is still held by them.
All I am saying is the land fixes nothing, it is just weaponised as a tool for the people with power (ANC) to trick the people into thinking it is not them stealing all the wealth.
asuds@reddit
A more likely reason the “Dutch farmers are really good” for whites owning almost all the farmland is that blacks were prevented from owning farmland under apartheid.
The Native Land Act of 1913 limited all blacks from owning more than 7% of the country and black farmers were forced off their land. Blacks were about 70%-80% of the population at that time.
Safe-Consideration88@reddit
You would think this but why don't many white groups from other European backgrounds have farms? SA has a good mix of English, Italians, Greek etc backgrounds and they thrive in many other areas but leave the farming to the Afrikaner.
People still seem to think the Afrikaner is some sort of invader, as if they have the ships waiting at the docks.
asuds@reddit
The answer lies in the colonial history and apartheid. It’s not that complicated.
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
Land redistribution fixes many things. Especially when that land was taken through violent colonial endeavor
No_Journalist3811@reddit
Not when the land was bought, documented and signed for. I don't think you have all the facts....
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
As we all know, colonial governments always made reasonable, equal trades that they always stuck to and never went back on or ignored.
No_Journalist3811@reddit
The only colonial government was the British.....
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
The white South African government, which was de-facto self-administrated since 1910, and fully sovereign from the 1920s, was, in fact, a colonial government too.
No_Journalist3811@reddit
Lessons learned from British occupation let's not forget. I'm not denying apartheid or the south african government. But 30 years on there are plenty of poor white people living hand to mouth....
There is so much more to this story....
Sufficient_astrobird@reddit
And worked on by slaves lol
No_Journalist3811@reddit
What slaves would they be?
The white slaves the British kept?
okabe700@reddit
They keep a lot of it for that reason until these teaching programs are funded first
We saw what happened in Zimbabwe
FilouBlanco@reddit
Bro, didn’t you see the last farming olympics?
Freethecrafts@reddit
Not the answer. The best possible way to go would have been to keep the working structures intact and simply tax property to build a modern nation. They could turn it around right now by investing in community protection. They’re not going to, so in a decade the only safe places will be run by China.
Heavy_Practice_6597@reddit
Zimbabwe when?
stringerbbell@reddit
Are you in South Africa? Policies since 2001 have over incentivized non-white hiring and college admissions. Look at the black economic empowerment policy. People are leaving because the job market is stacked against them.
inap7@reddit
White people in SA hold 62% of managerial positions but represent 7% of the population
Prosthemadera@reddit
The job market is stacked against black people, too, but are they leaving?
How do these white people have the privilege of being able to leave the country so easily?
stringerbbell@reddit
There's no policy that incentivized anyone to hire non black people. The people emigrated to the UK and Australia mostly, the same way anyone would. Work visa, student visa, family visa, etc.
Prosthemadera@reddit
That doesn't mean the job market isn't stacked against them.
Are black people leaving?
the_pwnererXx@reddit
White farmers are 3x higher murder rate compared to general pop
The white people you are referring to (who will often come and side with you) are living in gated communities in Cape Town
inap7@reddit
No. As a South African. It is fake. End of story.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
No. As the Pope myself. It is true. End of story.
inap7@reddit
If you repeat a lie, you eventually believe it. Thats whats happening here.
If you're influenced by Trump and MAGA and you're unable to critically examine this issue and see it for what its worth, then I have no words for you
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
If you are unable to critically examine an issue presented by media outlets that have repeatedly outed themselves as unreliable, and still are convinced that:
no bodies buried underneath an actual memorial = no evidence
then I have no words for you
inap7@reddit
Okay. I'll bite.
Where is any evidence for any systemic persecution for white South Africans?
If anything you've said is true, my claim is false
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
Their figures for last year show there were 23 white people killed in farm attacks, and nine black people. So far this year TAU has recorded three white people and four black people killed on South African farms. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9vxve994ro
At what point something becomes "systemic"?
valentc@reddit
So you must think every mass shooting event is a genocide. A school shooting is a genocide of children, a gay nightclub shooting is a genocide of gays?
Don't lessen the word genocide just because your glorious orange leader said so. Do some thinking for yourself.
Ancient_Sound_5347@reddit
An American President attempting to sell a fake genocide in South Africa to his supporters by holding up a picture of dead bodies in the Congo discredits his credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world including it being dangerous.
Being mad at the mainstream media for calling him out on it is also strange.
Those crosses were also not a burial site but a temporary memorial.
South Africa doesn't bury people on roadsides but in burial grounds run by the town or city council .
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
which means that no bodies ever existed to support that memorial. nothing to see here, keep moving along!
Ancient_Sound_5347@reddit
That specific "memorial site" has been shrouded in controversy since it was erected by the far-right Afrikaner Afriforum Group(the same group which have been spreading the White Genocide in South Africa in hoax to the US and Europe since 2018).
They have been accused of grossly inflating farm murder stats previously.
People have simply been making white crosses in their garage and erecting a "memorial site to white genocide victims" to attract attention even though farm murder stats are very low compared to the 1,000 white crosses on the site.
They can also be seen happily waiving around the banned old Apartheid flag and posing with photos and flags of the Neo-Nazi Afrikaner AWB and its notorious(now deceased leader Eugene Terblanche).
You can check out the memorial and photos at "Busting The Myth Of White Genocide In South Africa" on Facebook.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
at what point do the farm murder stats need to reach so that POTUS allowed to talk about them?
Ancient_Sound_5347@reddit
There was a debate on CNN last night. The Republican on the panel was informed that of the 29 farm murders recorded in 2024 only 7 victims were white. The 22 victims were black.
Don't think that's what Trump and MAGA want to hear.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
That is like having 250 killings of blacks a year in the US. Having media outlets call such a figure as "unsubstantiated claim" would be at least odd.
Ancient_Sound_5347@reddit
Wouldn't trust a word from a group who still refers to their organization under "Transvaal". Thats the old Apartheid name for the province. The name changed after Apartheid ended.
It's similar if a group in the US called themselves the "Agricultural Union of The Southern Confederate States and Slave Plantation Owners" .
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
Dismissing "Transvaal"-named entities because of assumptions of Apartheid is not that different from dismissing claims of SA government, the state that is currently implied by "non-mainstream" outlets of some kind of reverse-Apartheid. Both entities have a vested interest in overemphasizing their own numbers.
Just because you have been numbed down by 'reverse racism' because you have been raised in a society that has normalized reverse racism attitudes, does not automatically make claims going against reverse racism as false.
Reverse racism is just the currently acceptable meta of racism, and I find it fascinating how many people especially on this site are in a hurry to dismiss instances of it.
Ancient_Sound_5347@reddit
One group is a far-right group which wants a free ride to the US and the other is a democratically elected government which releases quarterly crime stats to the media.
Insurance companies also track deaths in South Africa and wouldn't pay out a fraudulent claim.
They would be the first ones queuing the South African Police Minister if there were discrepancies because they are dealing with billions in potential claims.
You can say Fox News,Breitbart,Newsmax,OaN,Tucker Carlson and others.
The police did invite the group to show where they got their stats from. They haven't responded.
No-Aide-8726@reddit
You are falling for the "lying media" trap dictators set
JustACharacterr@reddit
Something either is or is not a genocide. There is no genocide of white South Africans. Getting equally as mad at “the media” for saying there is not a genocide of white South Africans as you get at Trump for saying that there is a genocide of white South Africans is nonsensical.
Claiming this is insane when the very article that you cite immediately after this points out that:
And all of that targeted violence against white farmers that constitutes genocidal violence, apparently? Good for 0.17% of all murders in South Africa that year.
South Africa has a lot of problems, but there is no genocide of white South Africans. Getting mad at the media for refuting Trump’s genocide claims and getting mad at “affirmative action” for “the blacks” is insane in the context of this conversation.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
So below a number N, it is not a genocide, but above N+1 it becomes a genocide?
JustACharacterr@reddit
That’s not what I said, and no, genocide does not have a threshold number it must reach to be considered as such.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
at what point are we allowed to talk about a genocide without it being mathematically a genocide?
JustACharacterr@reddit
I have no idea what you’re asking. You’re “allowed to” argue that white South Africans are undergoing genocide, which based on your other arguments in the thread you clearly do; it’s a laughably poor argument which is easily disprovable, but no one is stopping you from making it.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
That is like having 250 killings of blacks a year in the US. Having media outlets call such a figure as "unsubstantiated claim" would be at least odd.
Omergad_Geddidov@reddit
I’m not an expert on South Africa, but I really don’t agree that affirmative action in South Africa is discrimination. How are you going to resolve the centuries of theft under a system that benefited whites and ended only 30 years ago without redistribution of wealth to the groups it excluded?
In 1913 the Natives Land Act outright stole Africans farm land from them and gave it to whites. Later, Bantustans made only 13% of the land available to the 80-90% indigenous black majority. Black South Africans are more than within their rights be given back their land even without compensating the white farmers.
The agency is in the hands of the wealthy. They are not victims, they are the root cause of the crime, poverty, and animosity. It reflects badly on the South African government and the pressures of outside states that it has taken them so long to implement even light redistribution.
The crime is still rampant today because an elite white class still owns most of the wealth. Whites today own 72% of farmland, but are 7% of the population. If white people chose to leave, that is their choice. Many, I’m sure were like Elon Musk whose maternal side moved to South Africa from Canada because they liked white supremacy, they were racist or wanted to receive the disproportionate benefits settlers reap. They chose to impose an explicitly racist system. Once they lost their explicit social privileges and some of their economic ones, they left.
That will probably continue as things become more equal. It has happened with every decolonization process on Earth. The Apartheid political system is gone, but the economic system in most ways, remains.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
By denying access to Starlink into a country with poor internet infrastructure because Starlink is not 30% owned by some black person. Easy fix.
DarkCrawler_901@reddit
What percentage of the wealth is owned by white people in South Africa?
Bloody_Insane@reddit
That question needs a bit of qualification because of SA's wealth disparity. Basically, white people are disproportionately richer than black people. Meaning in a country that's ~80% black and ~10% white, more than the ~10% white are rich. This doesn't mean ALL white south africans are rich though.
There are both uber rich white people and uber rich black people that skew the stats. Just more uber rich white people than you'd expect statistically. Like... you'll find lots of dirt poor black people, and proportionally fewer dirt poor whites, but the dirt poor whites DO exist, in not insignificant numbers.
DarkCrawler_901@reddit
What's your answer to the question?
Prosthemadera@reddit
"OP's question about wealth disparity needs qualification because of SA's wealth disparity."
That's what you just said.
Not what OP said. Read OP's question again.
Prosthemadera@reddit
What the fuck? Showing a screenshot from Congo as proof of a white genocide in South Africa not a technicality.
How does your comment show complexity? You basically agree with Trump that white people are being attacked and oppressed under "affirmative action" and that white people are leaving. Saying "black people are poor" doesn't change that because the government that implemented "affirmative actions" isn't and you said nothing about the government.
Statement_I_am_HK-47@reddit
As a percentage of each racial population, scores more black South Africans are killed by police than white South Africans killed by black South Africans. This is an issue blown up by racist white people.
ViennaLager@reddit
That is the problem with what Trump and his administration is doing. They are literally the "Fake News" that they so much like to attack. They release dramatic statements without fact checking it. When faced with criticism they lash out against the "nasty reporters". That makes everything they say to be questionable. When Trump makes a statement, the first instinct is now to fact check if that is actually correct, and most likely it has some root in reality but is wildly exaggerated.
RockstepGuy@reddit
Yeah i highly doubt there is a genocide like that happening, there were if i remember well some strange uptick on killings that happened like a decade ago making it international news, but other than that, the situation seems to had been an anomaly, maybe even taken out of proportion too.
If white South Africans says its cool then its cool, that said, i do believe that country is a powder keg waiting to explode if it doesn't start to recover soon, and it's clear who will be used as a scapegoat if that finally explodes.
rattleandhum@reddit
Always weird to see so many being authoratative when it comes to the very complex and nuanced politics of my home country.
No, there is not a genocide in South Africa.
Yes, farm murders are happening, and sometimes white people are a deliberate target (very rarely), but whites are the minority victims of crime across the country (not by much, but still) and farm attacks in particular.
And when it comes to the oft-repeated "whites own 60/70/80% of the land" that's not some person in the city (though there certainly is a dispararity there), it's a small 0.1% who own HUGE tracts of land, a handful of billionaires who inherited that land left over from Apartheid (and pre-Apartheid colonial conquest). A lot of land was also confiscated during apartheid and then sold -- how that get's redistributed or how those descendents are compensated is still and ongoing discussion.
weeboards@reddit
so there is a genocide in south africa?
rattleandhum@reddit
😩 intolerable trolls.
There is a genocide happening in Gaza, though.
weeboards@reddit
you acknowledge the genocide of palestinians but not black south african farm workers?
rattleandhum@reddit
murder is different to genocide, pal. Plenty of resources to clear that up for you.
You think gang warfare in Chicago is genocide?
weeboards@reddit
yes. we could call gangs tribes and use the same definition of genocide, the murder of multiple people with a common cultural background.
valentc@reddit
Thats not what a genocide is. By this logic, the KKK and other white supremacist groups are committing genocide too when they target minorities.
Hate crimes aren't genocide. Learn what words mean before using them. Don't just say they because Donald Trump said them. Don't be an idiot.
frizzykid@reddit
My understanding of the south African situation is not as nuanced as some but it's wild how people assume there is genocide going on when there is no racial or ethnic targeting. South Africa is a crime ridden country where people set up literal booby traps and home defences around their property to stop people from breaking in. It's not a race thing, it's not an ethnic thing, it's a social disparity problem. People are poor so they steal from those who they see as holding them down.
rattleandhum@reddit
Oh ffs.
Sprinkler systems with mace, and pit traps are not common, NO.
You'll see tall fences and barbed wire aplenty in SA though, yes. It's jus the norm, even in very nice areas with private security.
And yes, it's primarily fueled by economic disparity, corruption, incompetent police, failing education (which goes back to corruption in government) -- a lot of the delineation of class is, as a result of apartheid, along racial lines.
Ghost29@reddit
You'll see tall fences and barbed wire almost exclusively in wealthier areas in big cities. People from Gauteng often assume they are the norm, but honestly, Cape Town people fall into a similar trap, except they usually acknowledge they're the exception.
I live in a moderately large town in the Western Cape of South Africa. I have an alarm system, but I don't have a front fence/wall at all. But as a middle class South African, I get the opportunity to shield myself from the daily reality of most working class and poor South Africans (the majority of whom are Black). Gauteng is just so dense, and crime so professional, you have that spillover into your daily reality.
The fact is, almost all predominantly white suburbs in South Africa enjoy violent crime rates on par with much of the developed world. Overwhelmingly, like in much of the world, most physically violent and sexually violent crime are committed by someone the victim knows. South Africa is a deeply unequal society, healing from particularly deep wounds do to systems designed to keep people down and to disrupt the family unit.
I wish South Africa was as safe as most of the Western world. We are a land with immense opportunity and wealth, but through poor leadership and a lack of accountability, we have squandered much of it. However, what's true to this day is that if you ask actual South Africans LIVING in South Africa, most of us believe in the potential of our country, we believe we already have something special, and we are committed to building a brighter future.
IknowwhatIhave@reddit
I have friends who farm in the Eastern Cape, and it's obvious anyone who knows even the slightest bit about the country why they would be the target of violent crime.
They have thousands of acres, dozens of employees and live in an 18th century mansion and drive Land Rovers and right next to them across the highway is a shanty town where 5000 people don't have indoor plumbing and share intermittent electricity. And, it's really easy to spot them in a crowd!
Their family has farmed the land for 250 years and they do a lot to give back to the community, but the inequality is so incredibly stark it's actually surprising there isn't more crime.
thetweedlingdee@reddit
Where did you get the booby traps idea from?
There are walls, fences, dogs, people have guns and knives, and security companies watch over neighborhoods.
frizzykid@reddit
Unironically there is a 90 day other way fiancé couple that lives in south Africa, and the dude literally had pvc pipes running along the outside of his house to spray people with mace if they triggered his security system attempting to break in.
Googling it, it's not an that uncommon. Maybe the sprinkler systems and yard pits was a bit hyperbolic but people are totally trapping up their property.
ManicParroT@reddit
I've literally never met anyone with this kind of security system on their house in my entire life living here.
sadderall-sea@reddit
that dude is just crazy. it's like saying a lot american doom prepper is the default
whalebeefhooked223@reddit
It’s extremely uncommon. You’re just another American who seees something online and applies it to the entire country. I have never heard or seen of such a system
SilverDiscount6751@reddit
If the etnicities were reversed and it happened in texas, we would have long since claimed a black genocide by whites.
Hell, many say cops are commiting a black genocide right now with less than 20 unarmed black men killed per year in the entire country of the US
WeTheNinjas@reddit
Thanks for this context. I’m curious to know what your thoughts are on the “Kill the Boer” chants
Tomgar@reddit
As a Brit, I always feel my stomach drop when one of our news stories starts doing the rounds in Americans and the yanks start making confidently wrong pronouncements about our country that they know nothing about.
"I've thought very deeply about this issue for the 5 minutes since I learned about it on a TikTok video and here's my opinion."
Tsofuable@reddit
No-go zones in Sweden rings a bell. Doesn't help when people who want clout at home "graciously" let themselves be interviewed by foreign press and tell the biggest lies they think they can get away with.
Fapoleon_Boneherpart@reddit
Blacks are the minority of crime victims in America, but there is still racism and racist crime.
deusasclepian@reddit
There's racism and racist crime in every country.
dbclass@reddit
Can I get the source for this?
rattleandhum@reddit
Again, as a South African who has been a victim of crime, and targeted because I was white, I am well aware. Some of my schooling was done in places where I was the minority and I have experienced plenty racism directed at me, but that doesn't mean I am a victim of genocide or that I want racist right support, and more than black victims of hate crime in American want support from the Black Israelites.
No South African is denying that both black AND white people are subject to racist abuse and hate crimes at the hands of other races. The same happens to Chinese-South Africans, or Indian South Africans in Durban.
HopeBoySavesTheWorld@reddit
The problem is that South Africa and Rhodesia have been the obsession of white supremacist for a lot of time, it was only about time that someone more racist than Bill Clinton would come to power and fuck up USA - SA relations
whalebeefhooked223@reddit
It’s Zimbabwe not Rhodesia. Rhodesia is what white supremacists call it
HopeBoySavesTheWorld@reddit
.... i know? it's exactly why i say Rhodesia, nazis hate Zimbabwe with a burning passion
SilverDiscount6751@reddit
Normsl target when the images were of africans using the same language against the boers as the kkk was towards black people.
deucedeucerims@reddit
You know if white South Africans that get refuge in the US keep their land in South Africa?
I was trynna find something about this but it was a little difficult
Relevant_Goat_2189@reddit
Yes, they still own the land or haven't sold the property.
They also retain their South African citizenship and will be able to visit family and friends back home after spending 1 year in the US and getting the promised fast tracked pathway to American citizenship (requirement by US State Department)
Most white South Africans who have applied aren't wealthy farmers but people on the low end of the economic spectrum who live in the suburbs.
rattleandhum@reddit
This.
rattleandhum@reddit
If they were landowners, there is no reason why they would lose their land.
One of the women interviewed is a personal life coach from Fish Hoek, which is a pretty safe seaside suburb. The whole thing is a farce, and these people are being used as props.
deucedeucerims@reddit
Oh no I know this is a farce I’m just trynna determine how I feel about it
Honestly I don’t really care about racist afrikaners coming to American but it would be a hell of a lot better if they didn’t get to keep their land
rattleandhum@reddit
The South African government is not some totalitarian entity that has the right to seize someone's flat in Seapoint or the City Bowl. Most of these people will keep all their assets in SA (though some of them genuinely are poor).
To most South Africans with more than a high school education, these people are an utter embarrassment, to white and black citizens alike.
RA12220@reddit
It’s so frustrating that local politics outside the US get completely reduced to a completely distorted narrative to advance political ideologies. It’s even more frustrating that they use it to advance supremacist scare tactics like replacement theory.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
The only reason this entire spat started is because Trump wanted to hit back at South Africa for taking Israel to court for genocide, and he did so by falsely accusing South Africa of white genocide. Classic distraction and diversion tactics while giving red meat to his white nationalist and Christian nationalist base.
Shadows802@reddit
Trump only cares about billionaires with vast tracks of land everyone else is just a tool.
rattleandhum@reddit
Johann Rupert was one of the white representatives at the meeting in the Oval Office, who is a South African Billionaire. He emphasised that the problem in South Africa is crime. Very few billionaires have fled the country, or sold their assets. They still make money hand over fist in SA.
Shadows802@reddit
Which why it's all Bs. Rupert is just a tool and Trump is trying to use him to get Sa to reverse so billionaires make even more.
DeadBorb@reddit
Thanks for sharing!
Mountsorrel@reddit
Pretty much all of the “evidence” that Trump held up in that meeting was false according to BBC verify:
Fact-checking Trump's Oval Office confrontation with Ramaphosa https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9vxve994ro
He either doesn’t know it’s false, or he doesn’t care, and I don’t know which is worse…
SilverDiscount6751@reddit
They claimed it was false BECAUSE it was provided by trump and they are the BBC.
it didnt show a genocide, but it did show people by the thousands being the color reversed KKK. That part is irrefutable
cultish_alibi@reddit
Everyone who engages their brain knows that it's false. The problem is that some people simply refuse to do that. If there was a genocide of white happening in South Africa, it would be in the news. It's just that simple.
Trump knows its false, just like all far-right grifters know they are lying, but you have to debate them anyway, and this is how they 'win', by flooding the discussion with bullshit. And by the time you've disproved one lie, they have said 5 new lies.
The crazy thing is that I think even a majority of right-wingers know that it's a lie, but they choose to 'believe' it just for the sake of annoying people. There are some who believe Trump, but most are suspending their critical thinking because they want to.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
I am sure if some kind of genocide was happening in certain corners of the Middle East, ALL of the news sites would be talking about it. Amarite?
Elman89@reddit
Buddy, this is how it usually goes. Surely you know that one famous quote about arguing with antisemites. They don't care about truth, for them it's just a game. This is why debating them is pointless.
hungeringforthename@reddit
Name a more iconic anime rivalry than fascists and the truth, I'll wait
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
Communists and the truth.
hungeringforthename@reddit
lol
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
This sort of fact checking is only emboldening people to distrust sources like BBC. A MEMORIAL is completely brushed under because there were no cadavers under those crosses. And more and more people pick up on these unmentioned nuances.
RA12220@reddit
I think it’s a bit of both. I don’t think he’s adept enough at lying, he just repeats what he wants to hear until the crowd of sycophants repeats it loud enough and often enough that to him and his supporters it becomes as good as true. It’s a feedback loop. This is the pattern of autocracy.
I think he ultimately wishes he would become the American Putin, but I don’t think he has a coherent comprehensive plan to become that. I think he just sees what Putin does and copies him and hopes it’ll give him the same result. In some respects it’s definitely worked out that way.
Strontiumdogs1@reddit
Trump stretches the narrative. What's new?
UngregariousDame@reddit
Why does he insist on holding up something, it’s never been accurate, I’ve never seen other people in office hold up anything, it’s such a song and dance.
pajamil@reddit
Whether it's due to race or economic situation white farmers in South Africa are still attacked and murdered at a rate that makes them able to claim asylum.
Monterenbas@reddit
They’re not tho, since black South African are murdered at a much higher rate than their white counterparts, yet still can’t claim asylum.
How does that works?
pajamil@reddit
Because that is general crime versus being targetted.
Monterenbas@reddit
Why when it affect black people it’s « general crime »?
But when it affect white people it’s « targeted »?
What’s the difference, how does it work?
pajamil@reddit
Because it's a specific group being targeted, those that are farm owners. The White Africans in cities aren't being targeted.
Monterenbas@reddit
Any source on that? Nevermind that this seems quiet contradictory with the idea there’s supposedly a « white genocide » going in SA.
Are the asylum claim of the white urban Afrikaners rejected because they are not « targeted »?
pajamil@reddit
I believe it's only farmers, do you have any other info?
Teasturbed@reddit
Sounds like a class issue then, not race.
pajamil@reddit
Yes, I stated that. Still an issue that asylum can be claimed for.
Teasturbed@reddit
Sure, but they were granted asylum for "white genocide," weren't they? Claiming asylum for false reason gets you deported I believe.
Monterenbas@reddit
Then if you « believe » I guess it’s pointless to talk, since you’re not bothered by facts.
pajamil@reddit
Do you have the facts?
Monterenbas@reddit
Yes, the fact that absolutely no one’s besides Trump and the MAGA people believe that there’s a white genocide going on, despite the issue being investigated multiple time by several international institutions.
When some serious people or institutions start saying so, I might taking it seriously, until then I call bs on Trump/Musk claim of genocide.
Now, if you want to take Trump’s words at face value, go for it my dude.
pajamil@reddit
It doesn't have to be a genocide for asylum. White farmers are targeted at a higher rate than any other group in South Africa. Mostly for financial reasons but that is still asylum worthy
Monterenbas@reddit
Ok, what are the your source on that? Where did you get those metrics?
Are we talking about measurable data? Or is it another one of your « belief »?
pajamil@reddit
In 2003 the Freedom Front political party stated that farmers were "being murdered at a rate of 274 per 100,000"^([27])^(: 233) whilst the national murder rate was 61 per 100,000 people. The Freedom Front also alleged that Afrikaners specifically were being singled out for attacks.^([27])^(: 233) South African farm attacks - Wikipedia
Monterenbas@reddit
The Freedom Front political party is a right-wing,[30][31][32]conservative[30][33][34] political party with its beliefs and ideals largely centred around Afrikaner interests'[35][30][36] and Afrikaner nationalism[35][37][30] with an orientation around Christian values.
Riiight… why am I not surprised here...
Well, looks like a trustworthy and objective source, if an Afrikaner right wing political party say so, it must probably be true then.
pajamil@reddit
What source do you have?
Monterenbas@reddit
Certainly! Here’s the translated response in English:
In South Africa, homicide statistics reveal significant disparities between racial groups, although official data has not been disaggregated by race since 1990. Nevertheless, studies and analyses provide insight into certain trends.
Homicide rates by racial group • Black population: Black men—especially young adults—are the most affected by homicides. For example, between 2001 and 2006, Black men aged 25 to 29 had a homicide rate of 226 per 100,000 people. (academia.edu) • Coloured population: This historically disadvantaged group also shows high homicide rates. A 2004 study indicated that the Coloured population has consistently had the highest homicide rate among all racial groups in South Africa. (sajs.co.za) • White population: White South Africans are statistically the least affected by homicide. A 2009 analysis showed that only 1.8% of homicide victims were white, even though they made up about 9% of the population. (ejhill.co.za)
Farm-related murders
Murders in farming communities, though often highly publicized, represent a very small fraction of overall homicides. In 2024, the South African Police recorded 44 murders linked to farming communities, with only eight of the victims being farmers. (reuters.com)
Conclusion
Available data indicates that Black and Coloured populations are most affected by homicides in South Africa, while the White population is statistically less exposed. Farm-related murders, though tragic, make up a very small share of the country’s total homicide figures.
For more detailed information, you can consult the following sources: • South African Journal of Science (SAJS) • Academia.edu – Masculinity in Male Homicide Victimisation • EJHill.co.za – South Africa Murder Rates • Reuters – Farm Murder Statistics
pajamil@reddit
Total amount does not matter. If they are being targeted for who they are then they can claim asylum.
Prosthemadera@reddit
So the skin color of the victims is just a coincidence then.
Prosthemadera@reddit
How do know the difference?
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
Again, show us the rate
ukezi@reddit
Easy, they claim asylum in trump's USA where the story the leadership wants to push is more important than facts.
frizzykid@reddit
Can you share any data that shows white farmers are targeted at a higher rate than black farmers? Should be an easy statistic to find given white people only make up less than 8% of the population.
pajamil@reddit
Prosthemadera@reddit
So area Afghans but Trump denied them. Or people from Latin American who ask for asylum.
It's not about granting asylum to everyone. It's about granting asylum based on skin color.
pajamil@reddit
What are they targeted for?
Prosthemadera@reddit
For being black. For helping the US against the Taliban. For being against gangs and cartels.
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
Care to provide evidence for that rate?
pajamil@reddit
In 2003 the Freedom Front political party stated that farmers were "being murdered at a rate of 274 per 100,000"^([27])^(: 233) whilst the national murder rate was 61 per 100,000 people. The Freedom Front also alleged that Afrikaners specifically were being singled out for attacks.^([27])^(: 233)
A 2012 report by the South African Institute of Race Relations estimated that farmers were between 2 and 3 times more likely to become victims of homicides than other members of society.^([43])^([48]) South African farm attacks - Wikipedia
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
Farmers doesn't equal white farmers solely. The Wikipedia page itself admits that. As such, highlight the word "alleged" when addressing Afrikaners being targeted
pajamil@reddit
Can you show a black farm owner being murdered?
A common stat is how much land White Africans own compared to Black Africans so I'd say all or the vast majority of White Africans would make up those stats.
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
https://www.citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/crime/black-farmers-besieged-by-attackers-stock-thieves-union/
pajamil@reddit
That was six years ago, anything more current or other attacks?
Prosthemadera@reddit
Right, 2003 and 2012 are just fine but 2019 is too outdated.
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
The strong irony of this statement is that your examples were two decades ago
pajamil@reddit
Do you don't think they occurred
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
So its one thing for one group and another thing for another group? Gotcha
pajamil@reddit
You have one story compared to thousands. Though the issue may become more prevalent for black farmers as more gain land.
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
http://www.702.co.za/articles/278024/more-black-farm-workers-are-killed-than-white-farm-workers
pajamil@reddit
That link doesn't work, takes me to some primedia site
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.36ZD7HY
pajamil@reddit
Thank you, proves the point
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
Your welcome. You can stop distorting facts now
pajamil@reddit
That says everything I've said
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
Where does it show a rate of 274 per 100,000 then?
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
Also, prove that there are "thousands" then
pajamil@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_farm_attacks?wprov=sfla1
Graph there
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
That logic is as sound as saying 25000 Americans died to build the Panama canal
Automatic_Leek_1354@reddit
All that graph shows is how many have been killed, not how many Afrikaners have been killed https://www.thesouthafrican.com/opinion/south-africa-farm-attacks-not-racially-motivated/
Prosthemadera@reddit
Can you show that white farmers are being murdered at higher rates? That was your claim, don't deflect.
inap7@reddit
Lets take last year as an example just to show you how off you are.
South Africa had 26,232 murders in the 2024 year
There were 44 farm murders in 2024, of which 8 were actual farmers. There is no demographic split given between race.
If we assume that all 8 were white - thats 8/26232 or 0.03% of all murders are farm murders.
Now, additional evidence is required to demonstrate that this was targeted racially. But, I have no idea how one can infer that 0.03% of all murders in a country implies ethnic cleansing.
There is no white persecution here. End of story
pajamil@reddit
What's the rate if you include just farmers?
stprnn@reddit
That's a lie.
Prosthemadera@reddit
This is such bullshit. Someone watched a video about Congo, printed a screenshot of the video and then gave it to Trump to be used during a meeting with South African leaders as evidence for white people being killed.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
it's amazing how more and more people all over the world vote against what you think "is the right thing" yet you continue to call them braindead.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Sorry, facts don't care about your feelings. If more and more people feel that 1+1=3 or that the Earth is flat that doesn't make them correct. Similarly, if Trump spreads actual disinformation and people believe it anyway then they're dumb.
Who are you quoting? Not me.
src-bloed@reddit
White Afrikaner here. This whole thing is a dog whistle and not taken seriously by any major group in the country. Some right wing groups like Afriforum have been pushing this narrative for years.
Farm murders do happen, but the vast majority of people being murdered are black farm workers. There is no evidence that there is a genocide orchestrated by the anc government, eff or some other boogie man.
I would suggest people rather turn their attention to the real atrocities happening on the continent like the war in Sudan which is getting drowned out by the media because of nonsense like this.
Moenie oor ons worry nie. Ons gaan okay wees.
Miserable_Abroad3972@reddit
Uh... why is the black ones not important to you.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
And there go the goalposts
ph0on@reddit
Where did they say or imply that?
SuperNoFrendo@reddit
As someone who doesn't know anything about your country other than district 9 was filmed there and it was pretty good, why are farmers being targeted in general? I don't get it. Why would anybody want to cut off their own food supply?
Bloody_Insane@reddit
But please still invest in us. We need money.
Izinjooooka@reddit
Ek wens mense sou meer aandag gee aan oorloë in Afrika. Dis n fokken gemors tbh
Decent of you to mention Sudan. The Congo is also pretty rough (to everyone regardlesz of skin colour), but I fear that even in a sub like this people won't remember that there are wars, rape, pillaging and child soldiers in Africa.
Sadly, most of the western world doesn't give a fuck, and even if they remotely did, it isn't in their economical interest to do anything about it
Excellent_Mud6222@reddit
That doesn't make it any better for kongo. And still political party members in South Africa have called for the murders of white people with rallies calling for the murder. Does South Africa actually do commit genocide on the white people no. I would say south Africa is at a stage where Nazi Germany was where Jews were still around and not in the camps, but instead targeted in random attacks, killings, and property being seized because the minority is seen to be "better off" or have some sort of power.
And to add to south Africa a politician has not ruled out the killing or genocide in the future in an interview.
pappy413@reddit
Trump telling lies, that's no surprise.
tencaig@reddit
There's no bottom to the stupidity of this presidency, is there? Where at the point it's a miracle he didn't crack the football open and nuke another country or a blue state because of some fake news.
cultish_alibi@reddit
No, it's going to only get worse as they distract people from the crimes they are committing. The plan to steal trillions of dollars from the US taxpayer is the real plan, all this other shit is just sadism for the sake of it.
m_Pony@reddit
don't forget shaking down allies for protection money
AbstractBettaFish@reddit
I like to think the chain of command for that is long enough that some adult in the room would put a stop to it but with Steve Miller trying to purge military high command I’m not sure anymore