FO filming while landing 777

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fly_guy1@reddit

Willful non-compliance. Should be off the line for some time at the very least. The captain wasn't much better. He also deserves a carpet dance to talk about managing the flight deck and setting expectations. I'm so tired of seeing this stuff.

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OutOfBase@reddit

I'm guessing it's a foreign carrier? Maybe Qatar? I can't tell.

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ThatGuyWhoIsCool@reddit

Looks like Eastern based off the registration

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OutOfBase@reddit

At what point in the video did you catch a glance of the registration? I must have missed it.

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ThatGuyWhoIsCool@reddit

It’s under the FO’s display at around 00:47

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OutOfBase@reddit

Damn, good eye!

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rkba260@reddit

They've been working on proving runs to get ETOPs now for... 2 years? Maybe 3?

Thats the last I heard.

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Ludicrous_speed77@reddit

FAA is going to have a field day with these two.

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Avia_NZ@reddit

Only if they are from there U.S. which it holds like they aren’t

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OutOfBase@reddit

Maybe you missed the part from 8 hours ago where we all determined these were FAA certificated pilots operating under a 121 certificate.

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Avia_NZ@reddit

Link? Because everything I saw was that this was not an american flight or crew

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Ludicrous_speed77@reddit

This is the new “Eastern” airline according to the registration. They are US based and operate under FAA certification. It doesn’t matter if the crew is from Narnia or New York.

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OutOfBase@reddit

The link is literally this post. You can see the registration of the aircraft in the video. N771KW.

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MrFrequentFlyer@reddit

That’s what I saw too. Didn’t realize that had a triple.

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Rubes2525@reddit

Is pilot incapacitation on approach cause for a go around? If I was pilot flying and the pilot monitoring was doing this, I would go around to prove a point.

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Bastinglobster@reddit

Eh, better option is to address it like a professional. “Excuse me, I am concerned that you recording this flight is not only unsafe as it distracts you from your duties of flight but can also result in us getting in trouble as this is against the rules of our company/country we are operating in (if foreign carrier)”

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OutOfBase@reddit

This is how zoomers talk in a professional environment after they have to use chatgpt to figure out how to interact with other humans.

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ducky2000@reddit

No one talks like that at the airilnes lol. At least not in the US. The CA would simply say "Put that shit away".

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pooserboy@reddit

Erm, excuse me☝️🤓

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Ludicrous_speed77@reddit

If you are landing and have a real pilot incapacitation, you probably want to land so your flying partner can get help sooner. Why go around and now flying the next pattern solo?

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ocud@reddit

Looks like they might be ferrying an airplane. They have a pretty low VREF for a B777 set so it makes me think theyre empty. Also the 2 pilots are both not wearing uniforms.

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OutOfBase@reddit

Ferry or no, this is still a blatant violation of company policy and FAA regulation.

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ocud@reddit

Right. Im not excusing what theyve done. Just providing context. Likely 0 pax onboard provides a more relaxed environment which led to this.

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Old-Chair126@reddit

What a sick cunt good on him

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Cornelius__Evazan@reddit

Did the captain do a hang-ten gesture for the camera? Lol

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anesigenn@reddit

What are people’s thoughts on Meta glasses? Zero impact on the operation of controls/attention/awareness

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Throwawayyacc22@reddit

I think unions have fought hard to keep cameras out of cockpits for obvious reasons, if your folks wanna see what a day in the life looks like, there are tons of landing videos from other countries in nearly every type.

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Oregon-Pilot@reddit

This is the most compelling reason, IMO, for no cameras up front.

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OutOfBase@reddit

It's not allowed at any airline I'm familiar with. It's also a violation of FAA/EASA regulations. Not to mention it's just totally sad and unprofessional. If you feel the need to film a landing at JFK, then you belong in a passenger seat.

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Sasquatch-d@reddit

Who the heck is downvoting you? No professional pilot would disagree with your comment.

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grain_farmer@reddit

I’m a PPL and can tell this is negligent.

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OutOfBase@reddit

It's currently the most upvoted comment in the thread. It was probably originally downvoted by the few flight simmers/aviation enthusiast lurkers.

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Sasquatch-d@reddit

It was at -2 when I commented, i was concerned literally anyone disagrees.

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OutOfBase@reddit

I always downvote myself to get the ball rolling.

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mitchsusername@reddit

Unbelievably based

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Sasquatch-d@reddit

Genius. But I’m sure sometimes it helps you lose even more faith in humanity than you thought you had left to give.

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OutOfBase@reddit

Sometimes you just gotta log off and clean the gutters, ya know?

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mat101010@reddit

Is that a euphemism for flying into Newark?

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LegalRecord3431@reddit

Although everything you have said ITT is true and valid you come off as someone I would give my left nut to not be paired with. Cheers mate

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OutOfBase@reddit

You're the type of guy who says "based." I couldn't care less if you want to be paired with me or not.

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Aggressive_Let2085@reddit

I’m a simmer/non pilot just in love with aviation, but even I know this is dumb as hell to do lmao.

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fjzappa@reddit

aviation enthusiast lurkers

Yeah, I sit in the back quite a bit. Please 🙏 don't be filming/ recording instead of working.

The videos are fun, but I'd rather walk off the plane than have the video used as evidence by my heirs.

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

It's also a violation of FAA/EASA regulations.

Not saying it's particular smart, but there's no EASA regulation prohibiting this. Airlines can come up with their own policy when it comes to PED use.

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OutOfBase@reddit

There are indeed an EASA regulations prohibiting this behavior.

EASA 2015/140 dictates the requirement for operators to establish sterile flight deck procedures during critical phases of flight.
EASA 965/2012, Annex 1, 109a defines “Sterile flight crew compartment” as any period of time when the flight crew members are not disturbed or distracted, except for matters critical to the safe operation of the aircraft or the safety of the occupants.

So no, you cannot sit here and tell me this is not a violation of EASA regulations. EASA has put the onus of on the airline, but if the airline does not institute such a policy then they are in violation of EASA regulations. Therefore, if an employee violates company policy, they are also in violation of the regulation from which that policy was born.

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Far_Top_7663@reddit

It's not allowed at any airline .... It's a violation of FAA/EASA regulations. It's sad and unprofessional.

And it's dangerous, which is actually the core reason why it is all of the above.

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LegalRecord3431@reddit

Based

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ebs757@reddit

automation until <400 in perfect vfr. makes sense

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JasonThree@reddit

I didn't see nothing. Who cares? Everyone in the comments got their panties in a wad. Reminds me of that post years ago where someone said don't drink orange juice because it contains a small amount of alcohol therefore breaking 8 hours bottle to throttle.

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

It's not allowed in the US. My company got a warning from the FAA that they will start taking enforcement action against pilots who are doing this. Previously the FAA allowed my company to enforce/correct the behavior with no FAA involvement, but it has apparently gotten so bad that the FAA is taking over on that.

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coldnebo@reddit

from the GA student side:

The best rule I’ve seen is “the cameras don’t exist from the ‘before start’ checklist until the ‘after parking’ checklist. no fiddling with phones during taxi, no checking battery levels on short final, no selfie reaction shots.

but I would hate to lose the ability to have any cameras — there have been times, especially with task saturation, where what I did wasn’t what I remembered. being able to debrief that really helps as long as it doesn’t interfere with safety of flight in any way.

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ribbitcoin@reddit

I turn my phone to silent during preflight. That is one phase where I don't want any distractions to miss something.

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Yeah, that exists at most airlines as well, preflight checklist onward, no PEDs.

I really don't mind, and many captains at my company don't mind an occasional photo when at cruise/above 10. It's still against policy, but you really have to be smart about it. Don't be holding a phone, panning around filming a landing.

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Throwawayyacc22@reddit

Hmm are you at a “giant” airline?

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Yup

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dubvee16@reddit

There’s no federal rules that say the jumpseat can’t use his device. It’s even allowed at my airline. But yeah it’s usually an ask the captain first.

The FO filming is definitely not allowed in the US.

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

I'd argue that 121.306 prohibits it, even for a jumpseater.

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XxVcVxX@reddit

What if you're on rest as part of an augmented crew? Still technically on the flight deck, can't watch any Netflix?

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dubvee16@reddit

Nope. Cell phones are approved for use in every airline in the country as far as I know. .306 only deals with devices that cause interference. Airlines have all decided that’s not the case when they are left in airplane mode.

306 is not a pilot specific rule.

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Flechette_Shot@reddit

Many of the younger more socially needy children who are arriving at the mainline do not yet have enough experience or a close enough call to understand how a camera filming in the cockpit is a very bad idea. The cockpit is a very dull/busy place most days but on the wild and outside chance something happens, and names are released LAWYERS will go on a witch-hunt for anything they can use against the airlines or YOU PETER PILOT. If you have a social media with a video of the cockpit ANYWHERE a lawyer could argue you are unprofessional pilot who isn't focused on your job but on the social media status and therefore not concerned for the safety of your passengers over your ability to show off. As a jumpseater shouldn't film in a cockpit either. It is a great way to get sucked into an issue as well and last I checked if there is an issue you get sucked in anyway.

Flying is a great and grandiose career but it's just like an operating room. Not a time nor place to be filming yourself. It's enough you are a pilot... That should be enough...

BTW I have been there and done that and had my pee-pee smacked and this was before FAA is starting to take direct actions.

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Flechette_Shot@reddit

Finally a group of people that have some common sense.

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IrishConnection97@reddit

I can hear Pete The Irish Pilot calling FO a “buck eejit” from here.

Seriously, what was he thinking?

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Forsaken_Cost4608@reddit

Hahaha yes!!!

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Zathral@reddit

Even in gliders, when I want to film one of the more critical phases of flight, I use a mounted camera which is set up, secured and NOT TOUCHED. It is passive, not a distraction. I couldn't fathom handheld recording with 300+ people behind you

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Throwawayyacc22@reddit

Special kind of stupid, he literally could have let the jumpseater record, and the CA not guarding thrust levers and throwing up the 🤙🏼 was icing on the cake.

I hope none of my family is ever on any of their flights, terribly bad ADM.

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57thStilgar@reddit

I thought regs prohibit filming during, "critical phases" of flight?

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Throwawayyacc22@reddit

They do.

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Gxs1234@reddit

Seems like an empty plane with vref at 128. Maybe it’s an European thing lol

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Throwawayyacc22@reddit

That’s an FAA registration, N-number.

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Throwawayyacc22@reddit

I see the US registration, maybe they’re ferry pilots?

Still dumb. Actually REALLY dumb for TWO people to record it, and one to upload it.

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Upstairs-Painting-60@reddit

Not to be "that guy" but: Day, VMC, looks like it could be a ferry flight, Captain is PF and FO seems to have all his checks complete and is watching the landing through his cell phone.

Haven't seen anyone post a hard legal reference to a "you shall not film an approach from the PM seat" so barring that (or his company SOPs), at least the FO is engaged mentally in the approach (albeit through the screen of his phone). His mistake is putting it online for judgement.

I've had plenty of FO's sit next to me (and been one myself) with no cell phone but brain on the moon and not on the approach.

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SuperOriginalName23@reddit

This is Eastern Airlines if you want to know who to avoid... even the CA who is pilot flying isn't using hand to guard the thrust levers but to make signals and lean it on the glareshield shortly before landing...

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holein3@reddit

Probably this flight or this flight as well. Those are the only 2 flights where that aircraft flew the parkway visual since at least December.

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immaterial737-@reddit

I cannot believe people do this and leave an N number in, unbelievable.

Also cannot believe that shooting the parkway visual to 31L was interesting to them for not 1, but 2 people to be filming.

Clowns.

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Now that the airplane has been identified, I wouldn't be surprised when someone submits a hotline report. It's how my company was getting reports about our pilots.

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UpADumbwaiter@reddit

How stupid do you have to be to not only be an FO neglecting essential duties during a critical phase of flight to film a routine approach, but then to do so knowing someone else was filming and POSTING you doing stupid shit in an airliner during a time the FAA is looking crack down on this shit...Extremely piss poor decision making. May I never fly with bozos like this.

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psljx@reddit

I know this is illegal but would legality be any different with say a stationary camera recording ie GoPro as it would allow PM to still perform their duties?

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

In the US, no difference. 121.306

Many companies also ban it in their FOM as it's a liability issue.

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dubvee16@reddit

The rule you’re quoting bars all PEDS from everyone on the plane. Not just pilots. If the device would be allowed to be used in the back of the plane it would be allowed in the front unless other wise restricted by regs.

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Yes, I know. I'm sure there is an OpSpec that allows passengers to operate them in airplane mode or something. But just because a passenger is allowed, doesn't also automatically mean pilots are allowed. It entirely depends on the OpSpecs and FOM.

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dubvee16@reddit

I know it depends on the opsec and FOM. It just doesn’t depend on 121.306.

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appenz@reddit

Depends on the operator of the flight. Under part 91 I don’t see any reason why with a mount this wouldn’t be perfectly legal. For part 121 (which this likely was) it depends on the opspec of the carrier and it would likely be illegal.

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Even part 91, it is against 91.21. Neither 91.21 or 121.306 state that the PED has to be held, or that it can be mounted. It says "no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of...." Blanket ban. Even if you mount it, it would probably be argued in court you are still operating it, as in it is being used. And I can guarantee the FAA will agree as such.

The opspecs won't ban PEDs, but they will allow certain PEDs for operational reasons, eg iPads as an EFB.

Also notice how 91.21 mentions air carriers, which loops 121 and 135 carriers into the ban when operating under part 91.

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appenz@reddit

Not exactly. 91.21 (b) (5) gives the operator discretion to decide if a device is safe to use. So say hypothetically if I own a 777, and I operate it, and I fly it under part 91 I can use any device which I determine is safe.

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Yeah, but I can guarantee Eastern doesn't allow it.

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Bastinglobster@reddit

US wise full ban, however other countries have different rules.

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RedDirtDVD@reddit

Put it on a mount and you’re in compliance with Transport Canada Rules. But holding it in hand during critical phase of flight is insane for any pilot.

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tommarca@reddit

I thought the deal was about the FC in the jumpseat filming, and then I saw the goddamned PM with his phone in the hand all the way to the ground. Fucking idiot deserves to be spanked by the faa

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dubvee16@reddit

Perfectly LEGAL for the jumpseat pilot to do it in the US. Just not the smartest. And may be against some companies procedures.

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themflyingjaffacakes@reddit

This is shocking. Shaming the profession.

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Happy-Tax1242@reddit

Maybe theyre ferry pilots?

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Happy-Tax1242@reddit

Not saying that makes this any less foolish

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Sad-Hovercraft541@reddit

Who's the person filming the FO filming the landing? 🤔

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habu-sr71@reddit

2 people holding phones/cameras in the cockpit and only one flying the plane on what looks to be a tougher approach than usual.

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StartersOrders@reddit

It's an RNP approach with guidance until the aircraft is aligned with the runway, on a clear and dry day.

I'm not condoning what they're doing, but it's not exactly the circle to land at Innsbruck.

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hawker1172@reddit

Thanks for the heads up karen

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aypho@reddit

Reddit is hilariously self righteous

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Simple-Recognition64@reddit

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the FO in the jump seat and some random in his seat recording the landing

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Joehansson@reddit

You can clearly see he’s filming from the right seat. Two out of three are filming, while 2/3 should be flying/monitoring.

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Simple-Recognition64@reddit

No I’m saying the whoever in the right seat may not be the FO.. what kind of pilot records a landing at a main airport as if it’s a memorable experience anyway.. I know it unlikely but it has happened before

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PeoplesToothbrush@reddit

Please don't do this guys.

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pandabear6969@reddit

Don’t fly the 777. Is this using the auto land function? Obviously this is stupid as all hell, in case it has a malfunction.

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Ludicrous_speed77@reddit

No, the AP was disconnected at :34 mark.

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SnooRobots898@reddit

Well, they wanted clicks - they sure got em'. New generation for ya

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LegalRecord3431@reddit

Nah, he was reading the poh PDF on his phone, just forgot his glasses

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jewfro451@reddit

Whats a POH for a tripple?

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namestyrepubliky@reddit

Captain is also a douchebag. Once for letting his FO film, twice for resting his hand on the MCP.

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iceman_andre@reddit

Tomorrow he will be filming his carpet dance

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Routine_Earth8643@reddit

All these Instagram pilots. Dude. Shit pisses me off. People wanna complain about so called DEI hires? They should complain about these simulator to heavy, wannabe pilots who couldn't pull it together in a real emergency. This stuff is getting crazy. It's all for likes these days.

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CarminSanDiego@reddit

Yeah fire that fool so I can get hired

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Imaginary_Trust_7019@reddit

The new generation of pilots that find it so cool they need to post on social media don't belong in the flight deck of an airliner. FFS stay home and play flight sim. Flying an airliner should be absolutely a non event. I had an FO a few years back ask for me to record him copying down a clearance. Lol.. about the only time it would be okay IMO to take a photo or video is if the Concorde itself roller out on final, or above 10,000 feet.

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AeroSavvy@reddit

A few years ago I was taxiing a DC-8 to the runway behind Concorde at JFK. Sadly, it was before camera phones. I asked the crew “anyone have a camera?!” Nope. I would have loved to get a pic of that. We had front row seats for their take off.

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Bastinglobster@reddit

God I love how different the opinions are in the sub on who should be airline pilots. Like damn it’s not like most of us would kill to be able to record some of our approaches and stuff we do or aircraft we taxi behind.

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I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS@reddit

ASMR? Yeah, really relaxing right up until the autopilot disconnect and EGPWS calls.

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FingFrenchy@reddit

Yeah, not a sterile cockpit during a critical phase when you're playing amateur cinematographer with your phone.

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BigTunaTim@reddit

Pilot Flying <-------> Pilot Streaming

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exbex@reddit

Not sure what's dumber, filming it or posting it.

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TheSteve1778@reddit

Just awful

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Jaimebgdb@reddit

It's very stupid to do it in the first place.

It's incredibly stupid to not only do it, but also let someone else record you while doing it.

It's exceptionally stupid to do it, to let someone else record you while doing, and to then let them upload it onto YT for everyone else to see it.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Stumbled across this video and left me wondering if this is even allowed? And how foolish to put it out there anyways…

Please downvote this comment until it collapses.

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