Would you buy products from the NHS if profits went into the service?
Posted by Gabbysbrain@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 107 comments
Pardon my ignorance. Why does the NHS use its brand/goodwill to sell products as an additional revenue steam? I would absolutely buy NHS branded teabags knowing some of the money went into the service.
I’m sure there a very good reason, I was just wondering.
SmashedWorm64@reddit
Technically every time you buy tea bags thee is VAT attached which goes towards the NHS.
Pitiful_Carrot5349@reddit
Every man woman and child in the UK already pays on average £3350 /year to the NHS. If your family is not paying that much, it's because some rich person is doing it on your behalf.
A couple of quid extra from branded teabags is a complete irrelevance.
DRSandDuvetDays@reddit
No.
I pay my taxes and NI. I don’t then go and buy merch.
MattCDnD@reddit
The Government doesn’t have a bank account and a budget in the same way that you do.
It can choose to put whatever amount of money it wants into the NHS each year.
It literally just creates the money out of thin air.
The only side effect of this is that it makes rich people poorer.
So, therefore, it doesn’t happen.
atheist-bum-clapper@reddit
I am utterly convinced the Church of England is no longer the state religion, and has been replaced with "our NHS"
tyger2020@reddit
because people want the health service to be efficient and well run?
This is such a dumb take
atheist-bum-clapper@reddit
Not just that in isolation, no.
But because people froth at the mouth about it. Almost 5 years ago to the day people were going out into the street banging pots and pans in collective worship. Rishi sunak missed PMQs to attend the NHS birthday party. These are not the actions of a normal country.
tyger2020@reddit
People wanting to support the health service during a global pandemic that hasn't been seen for multiple decades if not a century in the UK?
Wow, truly shocking stuff!
atheist-bum-clapper@reddit
It's weird, yes. You may as well have gone and banged your pans at the supermarket - they did a far better job at keeping the country together, and lost money during the process. Anyone that makes the NHS a part of their personality any more than, say, the DVLA or HMRC is a simpleton
tyger2020@reddit
You realise they're doing it for the staff who were risking their lives, right?
Hardly even comparable to ''HMRC or the DVLA'' but I can tell this is 'pick me' energy lol
Splodge89@reddit
My partner was (emphasis on was) a nurse of 25 years and worked during Covid. Came home with it three times despite the precautions and massive amounts of PPE they had to don constantly, all the monitoring and first come vaccinations.
Literally no one appreciated the banging pots and pans. They’d have much rather people stayed at fucking home, didn’t throw street parties to do it and didn’t catch Covid - but that seemed to be secondary on everyone’s mind.
tyger2020@reddit
They didn't have to appreciate it, but it's clear what the original gesture was.
Stop thinking you're 'onto something' here, I am literally (emphasis on AM) a nurse.
Lazy_Age_9466@reddit
Not collective worship. People felt impotent. They were indoors watching Netflix and knew how hard nurses and doctors were experiencing life and wanted to support them. Whether it was the best way is a different question. But pretending it was about worship is a stupid take.
ondopondont@reddit
At no point in your lifetime has the UK had a 'state religion'.
mattcannon2@reddit
The church of England is literally the state religion
ondopondont@reddit
We literally do not have a state religion.
Icy-Revolution6105@reddit
All state schools in England and Wales are required, by law, to hold "broadly Christian" assemblies.
The King is the head of the Church of England.
The national anthem includes God.
Religious leaders sit in parliament.
Maybe not in practice, but historically and in some legal senses it does.
rcp9999@reddit
The only country that has clerics in parliament apart from us is Iran.
atheist-bum-clapper@reddit
The head of state is literally also the head of the church. We have bishops in parliament and despite not having a written constitution as such, Parliament themselves describe the CoE as being the "official church of the nation"
https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/religion/overview/church-and-religion/
Erewash@reddit
Our NHS, who art in crisis…
ComprehensiveAd8815@reddit
At least it’s the doctors job to finger my arse…
Erewash@reddit
One stops checking your prostate at a given age. Another starts at a given age. Truly, joined up government.
ComprehensiveAd8815@reddit
🤣
JigTurtleB@reddit
You did go in for an ear infection though…
atheist-bum-clapper@reddit
You can finger it yourself if you like that sort of thing I'm sure there's a subreddit for it there seems to one for everything these days
laudable_lurker@reddit
Are you a bum clapper who's an atheist or do you clap the bums of atheists? Just wondering
Bronyaur_5tomp@reddit
"These days" according to your profile, you've been on Reddit for less than 2 months.
atheist-bum-clapper@reddit
Lol I frequently get annoyed at this hell site and have a years hiatus or so
Bronyaur_5tomp@reddit
You sure seem to comment a lot for someone on a hell site
R2-Scotia@reddit
The NHS is useful
No-Medicine1230@reddit
Embarrassing isn’t it
Gabbysbrain@reddit (OP)
If it has then at least this religion makes sense.
atheist-bum-clapper@reddit
You can always pay more tax if you like - very few people do.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/voluntary_tax_contributions/response/1235513/attach/3/Scan.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
stuaxo@reddit
Leadership should come from the top, so let's start from the people way above our payscale, if everyone above me is doing it I will gladly.
jiggjuggj0gg@reddit
This is the attitude literally everyone in the world has, and is part of how we’ve got into this mess.
If you’ve ever spent time around rich people, you will know they do not feel rich, because rich people hang out with even richer people.
Gabbysbrain@reddit (OP)
Be nice to be in a position to.
Lazy_Age_9466@reddit
Does more good with less chance of a historic sexual abuse scandal popping up.
Elster-@reddit
Let’s just say both will happily cover up anything bad that happens.
BritishBlitz87@reddit
cough hepatitis blood cough
Lazy_Age_9466@reddit
Yes true.
scrapheaper_@reddit
So what you're saying is we should nationalize the teabag industry?
Which is like, the one industry that works exactly how people want it to and no-one complains about...
Redvat@reddit
Not teabags, I liked the idea of NHS baby formula though.
Dependent_Phone_8941@reddit
The NHS doesn’t, they push you to boob at every turn
SongsAboutGhosts@reddit
We were given formula in hospital on day 1, and most of the people on my ward were solely formula feeding. They asked me what I wanted to do, they never pressured me. Different people have different experiences of course, but my ward was categorically not pushing breastfeeding, and in fact didn't give me enough support with it.
fionakitty21@reddit
I was never pushed for boob feeding, both mine were also prem, and 1 was tube fed formula for prems, the other had prem milk but from special small bottles they provided.
SongsAboutGhosts@reddit
We used an NG tube for weeks (also prem) and it was totally my choice to pump rather than just use formula!
fionakitty21@reddit
I was always sure that boob feeding wasn't something I wanted to do, just glad I got no pressure from the midwives!
Biggeordiegeek@reddit
Not a parent, but an uncle to over twenty five nibblings and in my discussions with siblings and siblings in law, the position has moved from 19 years ago when the first one was born to get the boob right out and that’s the only acceptable thing
To try breast feeding, do the absolutely best effort cause it’s free and most natural, but if you can’t don’t feel guilty
The most recent one born 18 months agoish, my sister-in-law had them bring formula in, just in case she struggled to get enough milk out, she managed fine, but they certainly have seemed to shift towards baby being feed is more important than how
RealRhialto@reddit
Except when formula is clinically appropriate. My daughter had prescribed formula milk on the NHS for over a year.
LJ161@reddit
It would never happen. They're not allowed to promote breast milk replacements in the NHS sadly. Plus it's illegal to advertise and put price promotions on it in the UK anyway so it would be the same base price as every other formula.
Biggeordiegeek@reddit
That’s soon changing, the recent decisions from the bods at the top are that feed is best, and soon you will be able to collect loyalty points on baby formula, and use gift cards and vouchers No promotions or discounts as they don’t wish to make it appear to be more attractive than breastfeeding, but enough changes to help people make the most of their money And most importantly, there will be a standard packaging for all baby formula on maternity wards, so that new mothers don’t associate any particular brand with NHS endorsement Because baby formula has to meet very very strict regulations on what it contains and the nutrition is provided, there is zero benefit to buying any particular brand as the regulators have stated any claims of being a superior product are to be treated with skepticism Supermarkets will also have to label milks to show that they all provide the same nutritional value I think they said that the average parent should save about £300 a year and some might save over £500 Of course the three companies that control 90% of the market argue against it and still claim their formula is better, but the regulators want to educate parents so they don’t feel guilty for buying a cheaper brand I agree with the ban on promotions, one of the things that was pointed out was that some marketing focused in the past on consistency for nippers as they may react or reject another brands milk, so selling cheap to get them on their product and then jack up the price is something they want to avoid, apparently bairns even noticing a change in brand is extremely rare and when it does happen is usually the parents seeing something that isn’t there Ok that said, if the government turned around to all these formula companies and said, sod it, you make one brand, an NHS approved brand and it’s the same price everywhere, I wouldn’t be opposed to it
LJ161@reddit
That's amazing. I always found it so backwards!
raccoonsaff@reddit
I might, depending on how much more expensive they were than my usual products, or maybe just on the odd occasion? I think it would be worth them doing. But I also think they should charge a very minimal amount for food IN hospital.
Lazy_Age_9466@reddit
I do not think they should charge for food. Some people are very poor and spend very little on food. And if you are working and in hospital, you may only be getting statutory sickness which mean you will be struggling to pay the standing charges on your bills as it is.
elmo298@reddit
I can tell you now profits would not go into the service. The NHS is so big it would just get lost in the ether. The NHS can't charge for anything. For example, we proposed a weight management service focused on groups who spent ££0.50 to attend, with the income going to charity. This is because the evidence suggests people who attend these groups have higher attendance and success rates if they pay, no matter the sum. We were not allowed to offer this as they cannot pay for anything.
Lazy_Age_9466@reddit
Its also because if it is free, but a bit shite, people may continue going for the bits that are still good, but they would not pay for it. Went to an NHS weight management course. It was absolute shite delivered by a patronising 20 year old. But the exercise class that was part of it was excellent. I would have paid for the exercise class, but there is nothing run anywhere similar.
CPH3000@reddit
Because everything the NHS does is 10x more expensive than if the private sector does it. I doubt you'll want to pay £45 for tea bags.
Capheinated@reddit
You mean the NHS that is very cost effective for its outcomes when compared to international peers? And magnitudes cheaper than checks notes... The almost entirely private sector US system?
CPH3000@reddit
Comparing to the US is irrelevant because checks notes... we aren't in the US.
Capheinated@reddit
Comparing the NHS' costs and outcomes to international peers is absolutely relevant, and typically how you compare healthcare systems... but if youd prefer, you could go ahead and give some example of where the private sector in the UK is cheaper than the NHS.
After all, you so confidently asserted the NHS is more expensive than the price sector, im sure you have examples to back it up? Right?
CPH3000@reddit
Paracetamol:
https://www.coastalmedicalpartnership.nhs.uk/find-out-the-real-cost-of-100-paracetamol-tablets-to-the-nhs
I accept your apology.
Capheinated@reddit
You can accept this million pounds I'm not offering you too if you'd like.
Quite frankly, it's embarrassing that you think the cost of paracetamol from supermarkets compared the cost of the NHS dispensing it is an example of an inefficient healthcare system.
Did you read the link you sent? £11.27 is admin and dispensing cost. That isnt reflective of what the NHS pays for paracetamol but of how the accounting is done to cover overheads of the wider dispensing service. If you were to look at a cancer drug costing thousands per prescription, it would have the same £11.27 admin cost attached to it.
That doesnt mean patients shouldnt be encouraged to just buy paracetamol from a supermarket - they should, it is better for the NHS - but its an error to consider the cost of paracetamol in isolation when considering the efficiency of the NHS. The appropriate way to look at it would be the price the NHS pays for a specific medication, or the efficiency of dispensary services overall in the NHS.
If you were to compare apples with apples with the figures in that link, a private hospital dispensing paracetamol would also attach admin and dispensing costs that i can guarantee would exceed £11.27. That is comparing the NHS service you accuse of inefficiency with a comparable service.
CPH3000@reddit
It's OK, I already knew you had your head in the sand.
£140million on management consultants over 4 years:
https://www.bmj.com/content/387/bmj.q2803
I'm sure you've got a really long explanation for why this is actually great.
Capheinated@reddit
Im just going to reply to the one comment rather than all three of yours.
I would agree management consultants are often a tremendous waste of money.
£10bn IT disaster... Yep, definitely a disaster. Can you show me an equivalent IT project from anywhere in the world, public or private sector, that has worked out any better? Its an inherently complex project with no peers afaik.
Diversity management role - leaving aside whether you think the job should exist, if the job is reqiired the question relevant to your opening point is does the NHS do it more or less efficiently than the private sector. Criticising the salary in isolation is completely irrelevant.
As a reminder, your opening point was that "everything the NHS does is 10x more expensive than if the private sector does it", having failed to provide any examples or evidence of your statement you've resorted to a completely different angle of highlighting what you perceive as wasteful spending.
There is definitely waste in the NHS, just as there is in every healthcare system, in every public sector organisation, and every private sector organisation. Your examples of waste in the NHS, ironically, are little to nothing to do with what the NHS spends the vast majority of its funding on: actual healthcare, which by every measure i've read about it's tremendously efficient at.
I invite you to correct your original comment because you evidently cant substantiate your claim.
CPH3000@reddit
Thank you for your invitation.
CPH3000@reddit
£10bilion IT disaster anyone?
https://www.henricodolfing.com/2019/01/case-study-10-billion-it-disaster.html?m=1
Again, I'll brace myself for your long-winded explanation about how this isn't actually a bad thing.
CPH3000@reddit
A diversity manager job from 2022 with a minimum salary of over £40k. Complete waste of money.
https://beta.jobs.nhs.uk/candidate/jobadvert/C9380-22-3052
On and on it goes.
Celtastic@reddit
I already pay for the service through my taxes
Responsible_Rip1058@reddit
There is blood test that are sorta like this I believe it subsided the NHS labs when there not at capacity
QOTAPOTA@reddit
Yeah sure. If it’s managed properly.
R2-Scotia@reddit
Well, sure, probably, but we shouldn't need to make government services a charity. Tax the rich.
Lonely-Job484@reddit
Possibly medication, if they sold generic meds
i_sesh_better@reddit
I suppose there’s little reason why generic medication should be sold for a profit when we have free at the point of use healthcare.
Why not aggregate the whole country’s buying power to get the best prices? Though where would they sell it? Would the cost of creating and running the infrastructure to sell it negate the discount achieved by bringing the UK’s demand together? Do we even pay so much for generic meds that the NHS would make it much cheaper? If this is about funding the NHS then would we be paying more (even matching profit margins of private retailers?) for the sake of an NHS profit? Why not just increase taxes?
Lonely-Job484@reddit
There's plenty of generic over the counter medications sold every day in UK and abroad. Painkillers like paracetamol and ibuprofen, antihistamines, antacids, etc.
ooooomikeooooo@reddit
It's cheaper to buy a generic med like paracetamol from a supermarket than it is for the NHS to prescribe it. Hospitals ask patients to bring their own to save money. The NHS doesn't own or produce any medication, it buys it as it uses it and they pay a fixed fee per prescription (they win on some meds and lose on others like paracetamol).
mattcannon2@reddit
The NHS does have capability to produce small batches of medications. It's a bit specialist though. https://bnfc.nice.org.uk/medicines-guidance/special-order-manufacturers/
On the paracetamol thing - yeah they lose because pharmacies are independent businesses that charge the NHS the prescription fee, which clearly will always be disproportionate when it's 50p a pack
Spencer-ForHire@reddit
No. The whole point of a public service is that you pay for it with taxes. If you buy team bags from Taylors they pay tax to support services like the NHS. If we had a functioning tax system that is.
BritishBlitz87@reddit
The army had those HM Armed Forces action men for a bit though
r0224@reddit
I don't think they were anything to do with the military, you were just meant to think they were.
BritishBlitz87@reddit
I just looked it up and the MoD got a share of the profits to spend on recruitment and PR in exchange for licensing their uniforms and logos
r0224@reddit
Interesting, thank you for correcting me 👍
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
They aren't a charity and get a large amount of money from via taxation. I'd have a major issue with this. The more that the NHS has independent from taxation money streams the more the government will divert taxes towards other needs. That might be good if things like older care to stop people needing intensive NHS services for falls and the like. But it might also be used for ramping up the military.
There might be an argument for charitable campaigns towards very specific needs like parent rooms attached to children's wards. But if charity is buying the MRI machine or little Johnny doesn't get his dialysis until enough teabags are bought, then no.
And even large capital costs are funded, you still need the staff to support them. Look at the stereotactic machine at Queen Elizabeth, Glasgow - bought and then mothballed due to lack of staff. I hope that that is back being used (looks like it is - my Mother had when it was first installed and gave her more time).
Biggeordiegeek@reddit
If I recall, and I may be mistaken, but the NHS aren’t allowed to spend money on niceties and is forbidden from accepting money for clinical necessities (I could be very mistaken on the last point)
But the NHS Together charities, some of which date back to long long before the NHS was a thing, fund the things like artwork, in the wards and waiting rooms, nice chairs, toys for the kids wards etc
Things like cold cots, which you might think are clinically necessary, but realistically aren’t, the NHS isn’t allowed to buy them, and instead it’s charities and fundraising that does that, a friend recently raised money to buy one for the NHS after they lost a child during birth
I understand the reasoning, you want the NHS to focus its funds on what is needed for healthcare, but hospitals would be Spartan soulless places without the charities work
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
I am aware of friends of hospitals. They also often run support for visitors. But any large scale funding of the NHS by another means doesn't guarantee more funds for them. I don't want soulless hospitals. I just don't trust the government. I mean NI was meant to be ringfenced, money raised by parking fines, etc. Everything becomes general taxation in end.
springsomnia@reddit
No because this feels like one step closer to privatisation.
Lazy_Age_9466@reddit
There are hospital patients groups that raise money for extras. For example, nice lighting to make the pain clinic a more restful place. Toys for the children's ward. WRVS also raise money by running cheap hospital cafes. And volunteers take patients who need a wheelchair to church services in the hospital. You could support your local hospital by getting involved or donating to what already exists?
Biggeordiegeek@reddit
Yeah, I have a friend who sadly lost their baby in childbirth
They have worked to raise money to buy 2 cold cots now, which are, sadly not clinically necessary, but make a hell if a lot of difference to parents who lose a child though late miscarriage or childbirth
Biggeordiegeek@reddit
That’s soon changing, the recent decisions from the bods at the top are that feed is best, and soon you will be able to collect loyalty points on baby formula, and use gift cards and vouchers No promotions or discounts as they don’t wish to make it appear to be more attractive than breastfeeding, but enough changes to help people make the most of their money And most importantly, there will be a standard packaging for all baby formula on maternity wards, so that new mothers don’t associate any particular brand with NHS endorsement Because baby formula has to meet very very strict regulations on what it contains and the nutrition is provided, there is zero benefit to buying any particular brand as the regulators have stated any claims of being a superior product are to be treated with skepticism Supermarkets will also have to label milks to show that they all provide the same nutritional value I think they said that the average parent should save about £300 a year and some might save over £500 Of course the three companies that control 90% of the market argue against it and still claim their formula is better, but the regulators want to educate parents so they don’t feel guilty for buying a cheaper brand I agree with the ban on promotions, one of the things that was pointed out was that some marketing focused in the past on consistency for nippers as they may react or reject another brands milk, so selling cheap to get them on their product and then jack up the price is something they want to avoid, apparently bairns even noticing a change in brand is extremely rare and when it does happen is usually the parents seeing something that isn’t there Ok that said, if the government turned around to all these formula companies and said, sod it, you make one brand, an NHS approved brand and it’s the same price everywhere, I wouldn’t be opposed to it
true_honest-bitch@reddit
Like if they start selling morphene and sedatives in Morrisons for us to have at home? Id be down with that
Questjon@reddit
TfL do it and it doesn't seem to hurt them so if it was managed respectfully I guess you could have NHS merch. But TfL do also get used like a political football and are intensely pressured to find alternative revenue streams, I'd hate to see adverts and slot machines in the ER.
thebossofcats@reddit
Have you considered just voluntarily paying more tax? I'd rather not have the NHS have a new commercial arm that can be horrifically managed
Gambodianistani@reddit
Not gonna go buying hospital merch lol
jcol26@reddit
Some NHS trusts do this already via private wings/clinics or upsells. In my last job when I had private health insurance as a company paid perk I would actively choose to go to the local NHS run private hospital over a BMI/spire with all else being equal as a proportion of their funds was developed back into the trust (well they said it did) and you didn’t “loose” any of the usual private benefits by doing so
No_Detail9259@reddit
Action figures
Electronic_Cream_780@reddit
Red tape. We were promised when we became trusts that we'd have all sorts of freedom to pursue different funding streams. Didn't happen.
Got a patient group that wants to apply for charity funding for an "extra" service? No, can't do that, you are a govt body
Want to look for local food suppliers, to boost your community and cut costs? No, you need to go through procurement
Want to sell something and invest the money? Unless it is capital, no you can't do that, you are a government body.
stuaxo@reddit
This stuff just opens the way to further charging and normalisation of charging, so no.
Select_Grocery_1667@reddit
This already is a thing every time you buy anything non essential a portion of it is donated to the NHS they also put money into lots of other community projects👍
RiskItForAChocHobnob@reddit
For every pound I spend on chocolate hobnobs the NHS gets about 3p, although that particular example could end up costing the NHS more than it makes it in the long run
Calm-Treacle8677@reddit
This feels like it would be 1 step away from, “might as well privatise the whole thing as it supports itself, run it all like a buisness”
i-am-a-passenger@reddit
I don’t even think we should have scrapped the NHS+, where you could pay for a nice room/ward. So I like ideas like this.
Unhappy-Preference66@reddit
I think it would just be used as an excuse to defund the nhs further
drivingagermanwhip@reddit
there's been a lot of talk about selling health data to tech firms so jot that down
KeyLog256@reddit
See my recent thread history. This is currently being refined thanks to some of the suggestions and being submitted to the PLP.
As those threads point out, the NHS makes nothing of its own, so you'd be buying from a private company anyway.
It is interesting, and backs up my idea, that people think the NHS makes stuff.
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
It is no different than buying own brand stuff from the supermarket or Oxfam branded goods. Neither make their own goods but they use their brand and facilities (most hospitals have shops in lobby often staffed by friends of the hospital) to sell them and earn revenue from the difference.
Helped raise funds for an animal rescue selling branded pens, diaries and badges for them and none of those were made initially by the rescue. You buy out a catalogue and get logo on. Though now they have their own badge and mug printer.
Ignition0@reddit
Why do they need to compete against private business?
What if they can't outmatch the private competitors and end up wasting sources from the much needed health system?
Who would pay for the salaries?
If a company wants they are free to claim that x% will be donated to the NHS, but at that point you need to ask yourself if maybe it's better to donate in a more direct way
Ilsluggo@reddit
Rather than take the risk (with our tax money) of going into business on their own, I think they’d be wiser to license their trademark to companies for use. Co-branded Trojan/NHS condoms, BBC series Casualty/NHS, that sort of thing.
Opening-Worker-3075@reddit
Yes I would