If you have lived abroad and returned, what made you come back?

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ContributionLatter32@reddit

American here living in Bulgaria but waiting on spousal visa to return. Biggest reason is simply my family. We ultimately wanted to split time between each other's countries, but turns out splitting time with a b2 visa is quite tricky, as the US is subjective when it comes to allowing you in or not. Bulgaria on the other hand is very mathematical, meaning that as long as I've been out of the country for the proper amount of time I'm guarantied to be let back in. So to avoid the stress with travelling back and forth, we've decided to establish residency in the states.

There are other things I do like more in the US than in Bulgaria, such as the variety of cuisines and products that I can't get here, and the driving is much better. But Bulgaria is super great for other reasons, the cheap healthcare and fantastic family welfare (2 years paid maternity and a lot of job protections, as a couple examples). So yeah, pros and cons to each but ultimately making sure my family can travel between both our countries stress free was the largest motivator.

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jdmiller82@reddit

My family left the US when I was 1, spent a year in Costa Rica and then moved to Uruguay, where I grew up until I turned 18 and returned to the US for college. Met my wife, got married after graduating, and have been living in the US ever since. My parents retired some years ago and now also live back in the US, so we don’t have any ties overseas anymore.

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ForestOranges@reddit

I’m a teacher and left while I was still remote. I eventually had to return in person. If I had the chance, I’d probably want the best of both worlds and have an apartment here and one abroad.

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Alternative-Law4626@reddit

The Army.

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Horangi1987@reddit

Korea (Seoul anyways) is the most vapid city ever. It’s depressing if you aren’t beautiful. The work culture is also not great in Korea versus America, especially for women. It’s also very competitive - it’s sort of ingrained in the culture to obsess over rank. And the seniority, honorifics…it’s exhausting.

There’s kind of a sweet spot for a place like Korea of being not too Korean to where you’re held other standards, but Korean enough to not be judged. Unfortunately I’m Korean American so I’m held to the Korean standard.

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eldakim@reddit

Oh I definitely get it! I'm living in Korea right now, and as a Korean American, if they notice a hint of you speaking fluent Korean, they assume that you could speak perfect Korean. I've gotten so many instances of people looking at me like I'm mentally challenged as soon as they notice how I don't understand everything lol. I've gotten over it though, but there are times when it really annoys me where I'm held to a different standard just because of the way I look.

I think that's why when it came to marriage, my parents suggested I look for someone who at least studied abroad to understand the nuances of Western culture. My wife lived in Australia for a very long time, so it was easier for her to understand me when it comes to growing up in a non-Asian country.

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AmericanMuscle2@reddit

I live in Japan and every fluent foreigner I know pretends not to be fluent as it just causes more problems. I used to say “man I just want to have a conversation with someone”. And my friend who is fluent said “trust me you aren’t missing anything”.

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ColossusOfChoads@reddit

Who gets to be in the sweet spot? White guys who master the language?

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Horangi1987@reddit

No, once they get too good at Korean then they get judged on how well they speak Korean. It’s hard to explain.

It’s like they get a pass when they speak sort of broken Korean, but when it’s good then it’s has to be like perfect? But then they get judged for different reasons because Koreans are kind of weird about foreign residents. So you want to be the cute, dumb visitor basically to say in the nice zone.

It’s hard to explain to Americans - if you haven’t been to countries like Japan or Korea where they’re not used to the mentality of different people as part of society like in America it’s hard to truly convey the way people feel about foreigners without making Koreans and Japanese people seem truly awful. They aren’t awful, but it’s just a different mentality that can be particularly unpleasant when you aren’t one of them.

It’s sort of a silly but lighter way to explain - in the movie Wolverine, there’s a part where he’s with his Japanese girlfriend and he’s having trouble understanding something and she sighs and just says basically ‘you can’t, you’re not Japanese.’ It’s sort of like that sometimes. It gets exhausting once you realize that nothing you do will ever make you one of them, if you’re trying to live there.

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HorseFeathersFur@reddit

The undercurrent of racism in the UK and Germany was shocking to me. The judgement from everything to what everyone wears to what they eat, their accents, their shoes, the most unimportant things will be judged harshly.

Another thing that I noted is that if a person has a dream to start a hobby, open a business, or even buy a home, their peers/family/friends will do everything they can to discourage them. If they go out of business, they view it as utter failure, whereas the majority of Americans view it as a learning experience. The culture in the UK surrounding pursuing a dream will cut most people off at the knees, they can be so negative.

I do miss the walkability of cities and the transportation in the UK, but I do not miss the traffic and noise and how utterly crazy driving there can be (if you chance it). I do like that the UK has more protections for employees than the US. However, the immigration/visa process in the UK is even more difficult than in the US. While I worked there, I still had to cover my own health insurance, which is fine, I’m used to that. The food in the UK is… okay (more meh than anything).

I prefer America by a long shot. The culture, the food, the resilience of our people, the friendliness, the support for small business even if it’s very difficult to start one, all of those things are superior.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Very interesting to read your experience! I disagree with the immigration/visa part. US is notoriously difficult and always ranks as more difficult than UK

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HorseFeathersFur@reddit

I would have to disagree with you there. I have a friend who is married to a British man and lives in the UK and her ILR (indefinite leave to remain) is only good for five years. She has spent upwards of $15,000 to emigrate and she still does not know if she will be able to stay. She has been there since 2019. She is now allowed to work. but she has to cover her own health insurance.

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perplexedtv@reddit

Indefinite leave to remain is temporary.

I wonder how many people voted Brexit because of gibberish like this being official policy.

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HorseFeathersFur@reddit

Yes we know. That is all she has been granted after applying for citizenship and she will probably have to leave when it expires if it’s not extended.

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mustachechap@reddit

Lived in Germany for two years and agree with you about the racism. It was wild to be more blatant and prevalent it was.

I think what made it worse was that there were way too many people quick to downplay/deny the racism I had experienced and immediately tried to make it seem like it was a misunderstanding on my part of that I must have committed some cultural faux pas. I get that you can't escape racists anywhere in the world, but I would at least expect the general population to be able to identify when racism is happening and acknowledge how messed up it was.

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ColossusOfChoads@reddit

way too many people quick to downplay/deny the racism I had experienced and immediately tried to make it seem like it was a misunderstanding on my part of that I must have committed some cultural faux pas.

Non-whites can get this in America as well, Black people in particular. A lot of white people underestimate how much crap their Black friends get, because the latter don't want to upset the applecart.

Buuuuuuuuuuut... living in a certain European country myself, you're not wrong about there being more blatancy, prevalence, and shamelessness.

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alcarcalimo1950@reddit

I think the difference is at least a significant portion of the American population acknowledges that our society can be racist. The problem with Europe is they don't talk about it, or they just pretend it doesn't exist in their society. And they look down on America as being super racist, without acknowledging that their country may be just as bad. I have a friend in Portugal, and I was visiting one time, and one of their friends was arguing that Portugal is not racist despite their history of colonialism. One of their excuses was "The Portuguese married their slaves and integrated them" which was horrifying to hear.

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zeezle@reddit

Huh, some of that may explain some of my ??? moments with some German relatives of mine. I thought they were just being weirdos or maybe a language barrier moment. They acted like it was utterly insane that my half-brother (who is my brother on the side of my family with no relation to those particular Germans) owned his own business. He was an electrician and it was just bog standard especially in that region that any experienced tradesman of course starts their own business after a few years. They acted like he had to be some CEO magnate or something and like it was totally nuts to be a business owner. And I was just like... no...? He's just a normal dude with a work van running a one-man-show lol.

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SaintsFanPA@reddit

where are you from? No, where are you really from?

I had a professor ask a student of South Asian ancestry that and he responded, "London". She then asked, "where are your people from". It was cringe. She was a strange duck that also once asked if anyone had ever seen a sugar plantation. I responded yes, in Louisiana. Somewhere along the way, she got it in her head it was my family's farm and that I worked it during the summers.

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NormanQuacks345@reddit

I had a professor abroad say that the reason so many people died in Katrina and the reason it was such a mess was that people were too stupid to know how to get out of New Orleans without taking the interstate, so it got backed up and everyone got stuck and died basically.

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Only_Razzmatazz_4498@reddit

Lol I had a professor tell me that every country n Latin America gained its independence thanks to the USA. I didn’t say a word but ohh boy I had a hard time trusting anything she said after that.

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nakedonmygoat@reddit

They might've been confusing it with the Hurricane Rita evacuation that same year. Over 100 people died trying to get out of Houston. It has been estimated that as many as 2/3 weren't even under an evacuation order. It was the poster child for why you don't evacuate if you haven't been advised to do so and don't have medical needs that supersede any direct instructions. Your desire to avoid inconvenience can cost someone else their life.

Plot Twist: Rita made a last-minute turn and Houston wasn't affected at all by that storm. But all the people who panicked needlessly, as well as their pets, were still dead.

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HorseFeathersFur@reddit

This sounds like what also happened in North Carolina this year when hurricane Helene traveled 800 miles from landfall and dumped the equivalent of Lake Tahoe into the mountains. Those people were heavily criticized for not evacuating sooner when everyone knows that you’re supposed to hunker down in a storm. No one, absolutely no one expected what happened.

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NormanQuacks345@reddit

That’s a pretty charitable interpretation of what she said. I think she just didn’t know what she was talking about.

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LionLucy@reddit

The “where are you really from? Your family?” thing is something I’ve really mostly heard from minorities - white people know it’s rude but if someone is Middle Eastern and think you might be from the Middle East as well, for example, then they want to find something in common with you. I hear it quite a lot because I’m white but my grandma was from Argentina, so I look a bit like I could be from somewhere else

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boulevardofdef@reddit

If they go out of business, they view it as utter failure, whereas the majority of Americans view it as a learning experience.

I've heard this cited as a significant reason why the American economy has been so much better than that of Western Europe in recent years. You're talking about small businesses, but to start a larger business, you need funding. In Europe, they'll generally deny you funding if they see you've failed before. In America, venture capitalists actually want to see that you've failed before because it shows you know how to put in the effort and have experience with what can go wrong. Most people who build hugely successful businesses and have been funded in this way have significant failures in their past, and their businesses may never have gotten off the ground in Europe.

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rileyoneill@reddit

We have a much bigger culture about startups here. Apple Computer was a garage company in the 1970s and now has a higher market cap than entire EU Tech sector combined.

I personally know European immigrants who came here in the 1980s and 1990s to start tech companies. The first few were total failures. But eventually they started one that was a total home run and became a huge success. They would be the first to tell you that such a thing doesn't happen in Europe, from the multiple attempts to the fact that an immigrant can get 1%er level wealth. That is really not tolerated in much of the world. Americans seem to have no real problem with immigrants coming here and becoming very successful business people. They even told me that it is easier to immigrate to the US, deal with all that BS, deal with being a cultural outsider in a new country, than it is to stay home and try to start a tech company in Europe.

The PC revolution of the 1980s and 1990s. There was never a commercial European company who challenged Microsoft and Apple. Sure, Linux has many uses and is important but as a consumer product sector, its tiny. Nokia was the king of the cellphone industry in the 2007. Until Apple and Google got involved, two companies which were not phone manufacturers. No EU company has stepped up with a competitor to iPhone or Android.

The next big revolution is autonomy, and its basically us going up against the Chinese with no one else in the world coming even close.

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CompetitiveSleeping@reddit

Sure, Linux has many uses and is important but as a consumer product sector, its tiny.

Aside from every single Android device.

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rileyoneill@reddit

Android is monetized by Alphabet. There isn't some European based Linux company making the money from that. Apple and Google make pretty much all the money in the smartphone sector.

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CompetitiveSleeping@reddit

Goalpost moving. You claimed Linux had no real presence in the consumer space, which is blatantly wrong.

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rileyoneill@reddit

As a product sector in measured in dollars. That's how the size of product sectors are measured. That is not moving goal posts.

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Parcours97@reddit

The next big revolution is autonomy

What do you mean by that?

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Midnight2012@reddit

Yup, for start up CEO's, having failed startups is seen as a badge of honor.

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KeyJunket1175@reddit

To be fair, the UK is very far from Europe in many aspects so

you can be considered an American but you’re not a European because you were born in America

If that's your experience in the UK, don't worry, they aren't European either. They even voted in accordance a couple of years ago :)

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HorseFeathersFur@reddit

Leaving the European Union does not mean that you have left the continent of Europe. I have heard this take before, and it is a weird one.

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KeyJunket1175@reddit

I was just trying to introduce some irony. There is a cultural gap between the Brits and the rest of Europe. Brexit is not the cause, naturally.

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Odd-Quail01@reddit

How does Ireland compare, do you think?

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KeyJunket1175@reddit

I have not lived in Ireland and I have not studied how things work over there so I wouldn't know.

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ColossusOfChoads@reddit

My impression is that they have a stronger impetus to be Europeans in Europe. They're kind of like Canadians, except with the UK replacing the US, and with the Continent being but a 90 minute flight.

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Odd-Quail01@reddit

Doesn't that show you how many Brits want to be European?

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ColossusOfChoads@reddit

Well, just over half of them voted for Brexit.

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Odd-Quail01@reddit

Just over half of those who could and did vote. That was 9 years ago and was 72% of the electorate. Brexit voters were disproportionately older, and many have since died.

It was always very close. After that first referendum, none of our major political parties entertained the idea of remaining in the EU.

What I am saying is that those that voted for Brexit didn't know what it would look like, which is plainly stupid. The rest of us have been dragged along against our will, our only way out via our Irish grannies.

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HorseFeathersFur@reddit

Gotcha. I have heard Brits say they are no longer European and it’s so funny.

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psychologicallyblue@reddit

As a culture, Americans are so optimistic in comparison to many other cultures. Also, we are generally a lot less classist than the UK. Here, just because someone starts out poor does not mean that everyone assumes that they can't become a senator or CEO one day.

The negative commentary about accents, clothes, etc in the UK was very shocking to me also. It's really ick.

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clippervictor@reddit

this thing with the discouragement of enterpreneurshipt I think it's more of an european thing rather than british alone...

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HorseFeathersFur@reddit

Hard for me to say, since I only did a stint in the UK and a smaller one in Germany. I’ve visited other European countries, but I did not stay long enough to experience the culture, just long enough to see mainly the art in the museums, which was all very lovely.

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RoryDragonsbane@reddit

Another thing that I noted is that if a person has a dream to start a hobby, open a business, or even buy a home, their peers/family/friends will do everything they can to discourage them. If they go out of business, they view it as utter failure, whereas the majority of Americans view it as a learning experience. The culture in the UK surrounding pursuing a dream will cut most people off at the knees, they can be so negative.

Look, you're British. Just scale it down a bit.

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Grouchy_Conclusion45@reddit

I'm 29M and Scottish born, and oh boy do I agree with paragraph 1 and especially paragraph 2

I actually did my elementary and middle school in Florida, then high school and university in Scotland. I just cannot get over paragraph 2. It really kills me. It's the reason I don't work in Scotland, I'm always travelling in Europe.

If I could get a work visa for the US again, I'd go back in a heartbeat. I just love the US culture around trial and error and people supporting your dreams (even if it's just a random person you meet at a bar!)

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Midnight2012@reddit

Your not from a "shit hole country" so Trump should be welcoming you with open arms?

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Grouchy_Conclusion45@reddit

If only he was 😅

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SaintsFanPA@reddit

If I could get a work visa for the US again, I'd go back in a heartbeat. But they are pretty impossible to get these days.

Any chance you can pretend to be an Afrikaaner?

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Grouchy_Conclusion45@reddit

Unfortunately for that use-case, I am white with a strange mix of a British and American accent, who says Tom-a-toe but also Aloooo-min-um😅

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Dangerous_Midnight91@reddit

I wanted to breathe clean air! Lived in China, primarily Beijing for almost 5 years, and couldn’t stand the pollution and the weather. I remember returning to Oregon after a year and a half without leaving Asia and we pulled over at a freeway rest stop and I just stood there sucking in air for 20 minutes. Also, the corruption. China’s actually a fairly dangerous place.

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Quix66@reddit

Japan - three years - end of program eligibility. Would return.

China - 5/12 months - hated it.

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masoleumofhope@reddit

Why'd you hate China?

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Quix66@reddit

It's just a rough place to live for expats from certain places. Lots of people fail to stay their planned terms, unlike Japan.

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tenehemia@reddit

As things were in my life when I moved back to the states, I thought I'd probably just stay a little while and then move somewhere else.

But then circumstances changed and I ended up moving somewhere new to me in the US and have been there ever since. I'd still like to move elsewhere again before too long if for no other reason than that there's a whole world to see out there.

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dgmilo8085@reddit

Service contract ended.

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Carrotcake1988@reddit

I’m an army brat. My dad was stationed outside the US. We went back and forth for a few years.

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Chemical-Drive-6203@reddit

I like making money and sun. So I moved back to California.

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HardyMenace@reddit

My visa expired. I would move back in a heartbeat.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Oh no! Ever thought about applying again to jobs there or studying?

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HardyMenace@reddit

I have to be able to live there legally in order to work there. And I've been out of school for over a decade, I'm not going back at this point

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Idk where you‘re referring to but in most EU countries, getting a master‘s or doctorate is a great way to get a visa, make connections, and find a job and stay after. And of course education is super cheap.

But of course just an idea. Finding a job directly without a residency permit is incredibly difficult anywhere, you‘re right.

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HardyMenace@reddit

It was in the EU, but I would only move if I was guaranteed to be able to stay. I wouldn't sell my house and make my wife quit her job if I only had to come back in a year

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Yeah, good point. I‘m speaking from the perspective of a single person whose family doesn‘t live near me

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Aggressive_Age8818@reddit

Better standard of living, lower taxes, better pay. The public transport thing is overhyped - elsewhere it takes twice as long to get between places, cars are easier

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

The public transport thing is overhyped - elsewhere it takes twice as long to get between places

Definitely depends on what city you‘re talking about. A good metro system can be way faster depending on your route.

For example, in Vienna going from my house to work takes an estimated 34 minutes by foot>bus>metro and 41 by car. I bike though and it takes me 25 mins.

Also public transport is safer, more comfortable (can do anything you want instead of focusing on driving), cheaper (than gas, upkeep, insurance, and purchase of own vehicle, not to mention parking), and better for the environment and aesthetic of the city.

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Aggressive_Age8818@reddit

Used it in a big American city for years. Can’t say too many good things about it

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

To each their own! I used to drive when I lived in a small town on the countryside but after moving to a big city I sold my car and live happier without. It feels more freeing to me. I felt like my car was such an obligation somehow.

Only time I miss it is if I have to transport something big. But luckily my city has super affordable rental e-cars for €2.50 per hour and €0.15 per kilometer.

Actually, I also miss the drive-in cinema haha.

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chaudin@reddit

We lived in France, and while their system of public transport and high speed trains was amazing, it was quite telling that anyone we knew who didn't have a car wanted to own a car.

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Aggressive_Age8818@reddit

If you’re a tourist taking the TGV between city centers it’s a great way to travel. But if you’re visiting family and friends it’s much easier to drive than rely on transferring through multiple trams, buses, subway systems and Übers.

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Confident_Ad3910@reddit

Coming back next month from Germany. I agree with what the others say here. The racism is just next level. The constant you CANT do it attitude here. The food is awful with no spice even if it’s fresher than the States. The weather then darkness in the winter. The job market. Sure public transport is great but I’m the summer, you’ll puke from the smell of armpit. Sorry but it’s true.

I miss my family. I miss my friends. I miss even the opportunity to make friends.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

But the bread is good! ;)

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Confident_Ad3910@reddit

Definitely! That is going to be nearly impossible to replace in the US.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

While I have a lot of German friends and like a lot about German culture, I do find the country emits a certain vibe that I personally couldn‘t live in.

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Confident_Ad3910@reddit

That’s a nice way to put it. It’s an overall depressing/passive aggressive vibe. It is a country full of Karens.

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AttimusMorlandre@reddit

The US economy is the biggest economy in the world, offering a level of upward mobility that no other country can match. I didn't want to hold myself back, so I came back, and it's been a really great move for me.

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CanidPsychopomp@reddit

That is not true and hasn't been true for a long time, although it is still a core part of the US' myth of itself. I'd even say the idea that you are all on the verge of joining the billionaire class and that all poverty is the poor person's own fault in the end for not grasping the opportunity America offers is a big part of a lot of shit. It's actually really hard to escape your social class in the US

The reciepts: https://www.oecd.org/en/topics/sub-issues/social-mobility-and-equal-opportunity.html

https://www.statista.com/chart/30387/social-elevator-oecd/

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AttimusMorlandre@reddit

In the United States, you can get a job with one of the largest companies in the world quite easily, and this lifts both your income and the attractiveness of your resume quite substantially. I say this not because I’ve bought into a myth, but because it happened to me. Your links are powerless against my experience.

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skateboreder@reddit

...that is your individual experience.

There was a time I was making 6 figures and had no issue finding a job.

Now I'm struggling to find *anything* and would gladly go back to doing what I was doing at around 6 figures for like $20/hr just to have work.

So yeah you can't just get a job with one of the largest companies in the world quite easily. The US will even check your fucking credit score before you get a job.

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AttimusMorlandre@reddit

Yep, it sure is my experience.

I have a good credit score, so no problem there if they want to check my credit.

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Parcours97@reddit

Your links are powerless against my experience.

Lol. Anecdotal evidence at its finest.

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AttimusMorlandre@reddit

Cry to OP about it. The question was what made me (me, an individual) move back to the USA. My answer: greater economic opportunity. Did I get it? Yes. Would I advise other American expatriates to do the same? Yes. My life is great notwithstanding any links you provide suggesting that it shouldn’t be or that my life is a myth.

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Parcours97@reddit

Your comment was that the US offers upward mobility like no other country and the other comment cited a source where you could see that's clearly not the case. Did you even read your own comment?

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AttimusMorlandre@reddit

Tell me, which countries have you lived in?

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chaudin@reddit

Well that quickly put a boot on their throat.

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2braincellsarguing@reddit

I think he means you can rise higher than in other countries due to (as i understand it) lower taxes and taxes for businesses aswell as other business and startup friendly laws. Doesn’t matter that the US has a big problem with inequality of opportunity between social classes then, really. The people a higher social can ”feed” on the poor’s lack of opportunies, if that makes sense.

In social mobility, the US is at 27th. As far as economic mobility, measured in how many generations it takes low income earners to get to mean income, the US is at 5 generations as per the study i linked, made by the World Economic Forum. The highest rated country, Denmark, is at 2 generations.

Though a part of me wonders what the US gets from this. Here in Sweden, we have ”free” healthcare, ”free” higher education (you actually get payed to go to school, instead) and from what i’ve heard we tax businesses rather hard, i believe, but despite that we are home to 1.6 times more billionaires (roughly counted) per capita than the US.

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AttimusMorlandre@reddit

No, I mean only that it’s much easier to get a high paying job here than it is in smaller economies.

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CanidPsychopomp@reddit

all part of the myth

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2braincellsarguing@reddit

But what does this level of economical upward mobility actually give it's citizens? If you have you the grit, IQ, right mindset etc you can make it big and keep growing your business faster in the US than most places (as I understand it, though I've not seen any statistics on it) thanks to low taxes for the average person and for businesses and other business and startup friendly laws (as I understand it) but does a weaker welfare actually help the average person, especially the poor? By all means, im not saying the laws my country of Sweden has had regarding taxing large companies is fault free since IKEA literally couldn't take it anymore and moved out to the Netherlands, but those taxes provide a strong base, even for the poor or normal person, not the once in a century extrodinary people like Mark Zuckerberg to actually succeed.

For the average person, the US is at 27th as far as upward mobility through the social classes. As far as movement of income, it takes almost 5 generations for people born in low income families to get to the mean income in the US. By all means, the US is at number 10 as I understand it from the study which isn't bad, but it's certainly not matching the best country (Denmark) where it takes just 2 generations.

And it's not just Denmark. Sweden, where I live, is much higher than the US, yet we are the home to almost 1.6 times (roughly counted) more billionaires per capita (im guessing none of them are as rich as the average US billionaire, but still) and we don't have a "broken" health system (although it still has it's problems obviously) nor do we have to pay for school or higher education (the government actually pays you to go school, instead). All this provides an actual fair opportunity for everyone, even for the poor, to succeed. And you can still be successful here, as proof by companies like Klarna, Spotify, Skype, Koenigsegg, Mojang, Dice, Assa Abloy, Astra Zeneca, etc etc, yet the average citizen enjoys far better movement economically and socially than the average person in the US does.

And what about the guys that did exactly what for example Mark Zuckerberg did in the US, but failed because they weren't cut out to lead the same success? Where are they right now in the US´s lack of social safety nets?

So, im honestly wondering, does the average american citizen and the 35 people that upvoted your comment feel happy that Mark Zuckerberg succeeded and that they might, just might make it if all pieces fall in the right places and be as successful as him economically, while the poor in America lead much more troubled lives and have much harder time changing their situation than in the actual top rated country for upward economical movement overall, aka Denmark?

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Competitive_Ebb5741@reddit

ROFL

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bananapanqueques@reddit

Surveillance in PRChina is much more intense than you think.

Conditions in my corner of Kenya were third world to begin with, but worsened over time.

As with any country, you can become a political pawn. One of my friends found this out the hard way and was arrested as retaliation for the US arresting a diplomat. He is still in prison years later without any semblance of due process.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Surveillance in PRChina is much more intense than you think.

I doubt it. I think it‘s pretty damn high haha

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cuntmagistrate@reddit

Got raped, lost job due to PTSD, everything went to crap and I just wanted to be back in my home country.

Would love to go back.

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Winter_Whole2080@reddit

Goddamn that’s horrible. It sounds like you are doing better; One hopes so, anyway.

I am curious—what country?

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cuntmagistrate@reddit

South Korea

One of the "safest" countries

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

I can understand that! Sorry that happened :(

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Cavfinder@reddit

They didn’t create the 4B movement for nothing.

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fpeterHUN@reddit

Living abroad is SO MUCH harder than living in your country. You have no friends, family is far away, you can't even use your mother tongue anymore. And statistically you are getting paid 25% less, because local people get the better paid positions, not you. So everyone deserves a BIG KUDOS for living abroad even for 1 month.

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chaudin@reddit

There are often expat groups/communities where you can make friends and use your mother tongue, even moreso in the internet age where it is so much easier to find others and events.

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Narrow_Tennis_2803@reddit

I loved living abroad when I did. But I came to a point where I just wanted to be closer to my family again. Also, I am queer and while I had a decent social and romantic life....I had to be very closeted for the most part. Finally, I was in a country that didn't have much ethnic/cultural diversity. There were some ethnic/linguistic minorities but very little immigration. I missed the kind of diversity I grew up around.

tldr: 1: Family 2: Sexual Orientation 3: Diversity.

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jthegreat48@reddit

Which country

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Narrow_Tennis_2803@reddit

Small country in Eastern Europe.

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idreamofchickpea@reddit

What did you like about living there?

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Narrow_Tennis_2803@reddit

Honestly a lot of things! The history, nature, arts and culture scene. I liked going to the opera and theater for less than $5. I liked traveling to other nearby countries in Europe. I liked the connection to rural life and going out to visit folks' parents in the village to help harvesting and pickling and butchering. It was homey, but it wasn't my home.

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idreamofchickpea@reddit

Was the lack of cosmopolitan-ness (for lack of a better word) stifling in Bucharest as much as in the more rural areas? Would you say it’s different in that respect to other European cities? Did you move there from the us? Sorry to pepper you with questions!

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Narrow_Tennis_2803@reddit

I only went to Bucharest three times so take these observations with a grain of salt. I am taking cosmpolitan-ness to mean presence of people from other countries.Bucharest feels much less cosmopolitan than other large cities in Europe I have been to. As neighboring countries go I would it say it feels more like Sofia or Belgrade than it does to Budapest in that respect. But it is much much much less international than London, or even smaller cities like Lisbon or Copenhagen or Vienna.

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idreamofchickpea@reddit

Oh I hope I didn’t give offense! Definitely unintentional if so and I apologize 😬

I live in the US as an American; while I like it very much despite its many issues, I suppose every place can feel stifling at times. I do like the openness of American culture (at least of the big city that I live in), which does leave room to be the person you could be, arguably moreso than than in Europe <- speaking very very broadly here. Respectfully decline to answer re queerness.

I asked all those questions bc I haven’t heard many perspectives in living in rom from non-Romanians. Thanks for answering.

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Narrow_Tennis_2803@reddit

It was just a lot of questions. So what city do you live in? Too bad you decline re queerness....that would maybe actually give me something to use in my answers rather than being wheedled into sharing my biography with an investigator.

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idreamofchickpea@reddit

.. there was no subtext to any of my questions and I’m not remotely interested in investigating your biography. Take care.

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FooBarBaz23@reddit

Retirement. No, I don't mean, "I retired", I was only mid-40's when I left.

What I mean is, in my overseas location (Japan), I didn't see a reasonable future path to ever being genuinely accepted as a local and living out my last days there.

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BelligerentWyvern@reddit

My deployment orders ended.

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ThePurityPixel@reddit

How does killing himself enable you all to shower? I'm not following the logic.

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BelligerentWyvern@reddit

Well I meant couldnt which you could probably extrapolate via context but I guess that was too much.

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bonzai113@reddit

Does this include time abroad while in the military?

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boulevardofdef@reddit

I think the reasoning for coming back while serving abroad with the military is implied.

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Joeygorgia@reddit

Yes, the lack of Chick-fil-A obviously

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AtlasThe1st@reddit

Ironically Ive never had Chick-fil-A, always wanted to try it and see if it lives up to the hype, but the closest one is literally an hour from me

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ThePurityPixel@reddit

In what way is it ironic?

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Joeygorgia@reddit

It’s worth it

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bonzai113@reddit

I was never any one place long. A week here or a month there.

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Asianhippiefarmer@reddit

Yes but we’re under different circumstances from your typical exchange student and expat. We get our PCS fees and expenses taken care of and a dedicated housing agency if we live off base. Honestly it’s like we never left the States since we still get paid in usd.

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idredd@reddit

My parents.

I would still be abroad if I didn’t have family stateside. My experience living abroad was amazing in pretty much every way. The only other thing I’d note is that a lack of citizenship is weird. Voting is a thing lots of Americans take for granted I know but it sucks not to be able to contribute to the politics of the place you live.

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MrLongWalk@reddit

My family was here

I found the local culture stifling

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Numerous-Estimate443@reddit

Where were you living? Was it Japan? 😅

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MrLongWalk@reddit

Denmark

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mrsrobotic@reddit

Your second line really resonated for me, it was really hard to describe this when I moved abroad! I really took for granted here how easily we can float through many different cultures with no strings attached. It felt very freeing to return <3

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YNABDisciple@reddit

My work was done and had to...I love the US but loved living abroad and would have continued to...I did have the issue for a while were I was married to a Kiwi and she refused to live in the US so if we hadn't split I was going to have to deal with that somehow.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

The being outside thing is interesting. Do you feel that Americans prefer to be in their own homes more than on the streets? For sure in cars rather than public transport

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YNABDisciple@reddit

There is this thing in other places like hanging out side with others that we don't do very well. The Italians like their outside feasts, the Mexicans love the circulo or centros. The Brits love to drink outside the pub in the street and the minute the sun comes out the parks are full! Its not that no on goes out in the states its just less prevalent.

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ColossusOfChoads@reddit

I'm from California. We are not nearly as fond of drinking/eating 'al fresco' as the Italians are. We just ain't.

It's like religion for them. They start doing it at the earliest possible moment of the year, and keep it up for a month or two after the cold winds get to blowing. Although a big part of the reason is that indoor AC is a rarity. It's getting to be less of a rarity, but a rarity it still is.

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North_Artichoke_6721@reddit

My entire family moved abroad when I was a teenager due to my dad’s job. We lived in Norway. My dad’s contract was for five years.

I graduated from high school over there. I got into an American college and I came back to go to school in the USA. My parents were still in Norway for my first two years of college but they moved back to the USA the summer after my sophomore year.

Then after college I got a job teaching English in China. I worked there for 9 months (the academic year) and then I came back to the USA.

I spent about 6 months living with my parents and doing odd jobs and then I got another teaching job, this time in Turkey. I worked there for another 9 months and then I came back when the academic term was over.

Socially and personally, I had a great time but I was barely getting paid enough to live on. In fact, I lost weight because sometimes I couldn’t afford to buy groceries.

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HurlingFruit@reddit

I'll let you know if I ever go back.

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ivantmybord@reddit

I missed good food. I'm a live to eat person and New Zealand had some of the blandest food I'd ever eaten and I traveled to every corner of it by the time I left. I REALLY missed Mexican food. I was eating at the local Indian food joint regularly to have something even slightly spicy.

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totesmadoge@reddit

Because my student visa ended. I loved France, but I did miss my family. Came back to the US to finish university and just didn’t make moving back to France a priority.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Nice! I also lived for a little while in France and it was awesome! I miss it, although I prefer where I live. I go back sometimes.

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sadthrow104@reddit

It’s good that you got to feel out the pros and cons of both. All countries have their more liberating and suffocating aspects

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needsmorequeso@reddit

Exactly this. I’d be back in France in a heartbeat if I could get the residence business set up appropriately.

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I-Trusted-the-Fart@reddit

Job let me move. Job made me come back.

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herehear12@reddit

My military contract was up and Italy was trash can’t speak Korean and the UK was to far from home and not all that different from the us and the us is way more convenient

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Sea-Operation7215@reddit

Several reasons. My family is here. It was impossible to find meaningful employment in my field. It was difficult to find friends / build a strong community or network … I had fair weather friends but no ride or dies.

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Wonderful_Gazelle_10@reddit

Emergency circumstances. Now we're moving to bush Alaska, so it's kind of like leaving the US.

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No-Diet4823@reddit

Studied abroad in Singapore for a semester. Their public transport was amazing and sometimes I would just spend the entire day on the bus or train just to see the different stations. There was a lot to do while exploring on foot as well. I miss the cheap flights to surrounding countries and for a bit had grown to like the humidity.

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SlamClick@reddit

The school year ended.

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AmorphousSolid@reddit

I love how in the US you can get any fruit at pretty much any time. And all the oranges are the same size and perfect! The people are just so incredibly friendly and most areas are pretty relatively crime free. And - though I’m not proud to admit it - I missed Amazon Prime while abroad.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Haha, that surprises me… seems like most countries have Amazon Prime. But a lot don‘t like it as much as Americans do.

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sgtm7@reddit

Only around twenty countries have dedicated Amazon websites. So the overwhelming majority(the other 175 countries), don't have dedicated Amazon websites. Without the dedicated website, joining Prime at the Amazon.com website, while living in another country, doesn't give you the Prime benefits of quick and/or free shipping to the country you are living.

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Derfburger@reddit

Mostly because a lot of us are very spread out. There are few options for a lot of specialty goods locally and Amazon fills that gap. Before Amazon a trip to the city for shopping was a big deal and a special occasion for a lot of Americans.

I think the majority of us would prefer to buy local, but for a lot of stuff like electronics, books, etc. it just isn't an option.

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rileyoneill@reddit

A lot of Americans also now run small online businesses where they can ship their product anywhere in the country, but would have never had any sort of critical mass to sustain a brick and mortar retail business with one location.

We sort of messed up in that we created too many huge malls and not enough neighborhood markets.

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jthegreat48@reddit

The fruit in America isn’t that good 😂

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mustachechap@reddit

Work contract ended. Also, Texas is home for me, there are a lot things I love and missed about the US and Dallas. We certainly have our issues, but living abroad taught me that so does everywhere else.

I'm really thankful to get to experience life in Germany and India and it was so easy to explore and travel while I was there, but I'm also happy to be back.

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idreamofchickpea@reddit

This is so interesting, can you say more about what you missed about Dallas from Germany? I also agree with your comment above about how shockingly racist Germany (Europe generally) can be, how is the racism in Dallas different in your experience?

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Germany and India are crazy different! Must‘ve been an experience! Did you go directly from one to the other?

Where in Germany, if I may ask? I‘m Austrian but have a lot of friends in Germany, have been there a lot, and consume loads of their culture.

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mustachechap@reddit

Haha, yeah I suppose they are. Honestly didn't look at it that way at the time. I was in Dusseldorf for two years and New Delhi for two years after. This was actually when I was 8 years old, so it was my Dad whose work took him to these countries.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Ah, got it. Düsseldorf is pretty cool! When you were young I bet it was easier to run around by yourself than New Delhi.

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mustachechap@reddit

I'm not sure I did much running around by myself in either? I dusseldorf, I took public transit to get to school and come home, but outside of that my parents or my friends' parents would drive us to each others houses on the weekends or for activities.

In New Delhi we had a school bus, so it was less running around in that I didn't do public transit there. But our driver could take me and my friends places and we could get dropped off at the arcade and get some ice cream or McDonald's or something.

From my experience, they were about the same. I know that's not reflective of the experiences of a lot of people, but that's how it went for me.

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Antitenant@reddit

The pandemic made getting another job and visa difficult. I was in Australia and was very much enjoying life. I'd say the pro and con is how simple things were. Sometimes simple is good, sometimes it's downright frustrating.

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i_hate_cars_fuck_you@reddit

My study abroad in Japan ended, but I had an opportunity to stay and didn't take it. Finished college back home, and I was planning to go back but I graduated in 2020 right when covid started. Then jobs and life happened and I kinda got stuck here. It's fine because I have a good job, good friends, I like where I am and I'm close to family, but I do wonder what would have happened if things went according to plan sometimes. I find Japanese culture to be much more of my speed.

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SBingo@reddit

For me, living abroad was a temporary plan, so that’s why I came back.

I LOVED public transportation. I loved how safe it felt. I found it nice that there were social programs to help people, even foreign residents like myself. The country I lived in provided assistance with housing, food, transportation, etc.

I didn’t love having to live in a foreign language every day. I didn’t like being so far from my family. I had to miss my grandmother’s funeral. I didn’t like the bureaucracy. I missed the food from home.

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sonoandrea@reddit

Lived in Panamá for 1.5 years. Left because emergency medical services are unreliable, infrastructure (in the capitol city) was not well maintained, and getting necessary prescription medications was expensive and unreliable (could only get a two week supply at one time and that wasn’t even consistent). There were some other lesser reasons we probably couldn’t have dealt with but those were the major ones.

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MayBee_u@reddit

I lived in the UK for 7 years. I had always wanted to live in another country. I loved the idea of experiencing a completely different country. I came back because I couldn't find a better job than the one I had, my parents were getting old, and it seemed like the most practical choice for me. I was lucky to get a job that involved a lot of travel but business travel, though it has great perks, gets lonely. I loved the sense of freedom that living in a foreign country gave me. But being an expat can be heartbreaking. You never 100% feel like you belong. On the other hand, you feel connected to other expats for similar reasons.

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Expat111@reddit

We found the bond with other expats, American, European, Australian, etc, very strong. We, and our kids, have good friends all over the world.

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cantseemeimblackice@reddit

I was living in Tokyo, working as a business English teacher after having worked in another career for several years. I wanted to work in my field again. I had been studying Japanese the whole time I was there, and I figured I had another 3 years to go before I reached the fluency level I needed for a corporate job. Then the only place I could have used the language was pretty much in Japan. It wasn’t worth the effort to me, so I left.

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Maleficent_Scale_296@reddit

I simply couldn’t speak the language well enough, even after ten years, to advocate for my daughter who needed help after a traumatic event.

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TillPsychological351@reddit

I lived in Germany and I loved almost every minute of it. Why did I move back? Well, I was in the army and I couldn't extend beyond 6 years there.

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heart_blossom@reddit

My family is here and my work visa expired

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_Smedette_@reddit

I’ve lived abroad once as a child (Germany) and once as an adult (Czech Republic). Both were for a year; since it was known they were temporary moves, I knew I would be returning to the US.

Now, I’ve been in Australia for seven years and have been granted Permanent Residency. It’s looking unlikely that we will return to the US.

There are things we miss, but it’s the right decision. All part of what you give up when emigrating.

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Communal-Lipstick@reddit

I moved back to the US because my pay was significantly higher and a slightly lower cost of living.

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No-Profession422@reddit

When i was active duty. Panama 2 yrs, Philippines 4 yrs, Japan 5 yrs. Loved it. I feel more comfortable in Asia, tbh. I hope to retire permanently in the Philippines. My wife (Filipina) is still on the fence about it.

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Gonzotrucker1@reddit

Money.

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Accomplished_Ad2599@reddit

Family, and its home, not perfect but home.

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Christymapper71@reddit

In n Out Burger

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mfigroid@reddit

A true Californian.

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broberds@reddit

Those are good burgers, Walter.

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thetiredninja@reddit

I feel this deeply. I also couldn't live without top tier Asian food.

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HorseFeathersFur@reddit

This is the way.

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Suckerforcats@reddit

LOL, that's one reason I am going back to my home state upon retirement. I live in a state without an In N Out and it sucks.

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stuck_behind_a_truck@reddit

This is the correct answer

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Expat111@reddit

After 17 years in Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore) mainly aging parents led to our decision to return to the US. The Great Recession was the prompt we needed to pull the trigger on our long term decision and actually make the move. That was 16 years ago and we still miss our lives in Asia.

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_hammitt@reddit

I couldn’t get a visa to stay abroad. Only reason I came, and stayed, home.

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PsychologicalBat1425@reddit

I'm not sure if this is helpful, because I was abroad for University and I lived in Cambridge, England. I liked it. The school was completely different than American universities. I liked England, but the weather was not great. I'm from California and was happy to return home.

Now I'm retiring and with the change of the political climate here in the US and what appears to be the beginnings of authoritarianism I feel I need an exit plan. I'm looking to move abroad. I feel like I'm watching democracy die and I'm not going to wait around for the end of the show.

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linds3ybinds3y@reddit

I lived in Edinburgh for a year. I loved the city and had a great time there, but I never really thought about moving there permanently because most of my friends and family are here. As an added bonus, I can make much more money in my field here.

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MechanicalGodzilla@reddit

The pay scale difference I think would shock a lot of people. We have a Canadian office for our US based engineering firm, their salaries are 60% of our US based offices. When we do international projects (Australia, Latvia, France, Poland) and collaborate with architects there, it's similar in difference. One company we were collaborating with paid their new engineers the equivalent of $45k annually, and they thought it was a good pay rate. Our new hires start at $83k.

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lupuscapabilis@reddit

I'm a longtime developer/engineer and was at a party at a coworker's place in Jersey one day where she invited some Canadian friends. A few of them were in my field and I just remember how much of the conversation was them dying to make American developer salaries. I barely remember the rest of the party but I remember that.

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ConfusedScr3aming@reddit

I moved around a little because I was in a military family. I lived in Germany for a little while. I liked the food and their soda is so much better over there. I don't like how you have to pay for using the bathroom. We get called barbarians for not paying for healthcare but then they pull stuff like that. I'm back in the U.S. because the Army wanted us in San Antonio. My dad retired and I'm still here in Texas.

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MechanicalGodzilla@reddit

I lived for a bit over a year in each of the UK, France, Switzerland, and South Africa. My wife worked for the US State Department and we were there on assignment.

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SwimmingGun@reddit

Wife wanted to come here permanently after our daughter was born to make more money and send it back so rest of her family could be lazier and have nicer stuff..

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mrsrobotic@reddit

Proximally/tangibly - family, friends, food, and tons of educational and employment opportunities. I have a very full and rewarding life here with no "startup" costs.

Distally/intangibly - realized I couldn't live in a relative monoculture, missed the sense of community, missed physical space, missed the variety we have in almost everything, missed the swagger and upbeat American attitude. And I want to be a part of making my country even better.

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worrymon@reddit

Didn't like my job, didn't want to fight through getting another employer to sponsor my work permit.

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easylife12345@reddit

Lived in Germany for a bunch of years. Got my degree from an American University, but it was difficult to earn a living - I was young and just starting out.

Returned to the U.S ( reverse culture shock at that point), but was able to go much farther in my career by returning.

Now I’m in a position where I could find a high level expat position, but family is in the U.S., and wife has her own career - just not going to happen. I’ve come to terms with staying in the U.S. San Diego is a beautiful city, with great weather and a lot to do.

I still fly back each winter, ski a few days at whatever resort has the best snow, and then visit friends before flying home.

Life could be much worse

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Melodic_Pattern175@reddit

Do I count as an American? I came to the US in 2002 with my American husband and 3 kids. He was military and had been medically retired. Got my green card, worked right away, got citizenship in 2009. In 2018, we moved back to the UK and - for me, anyway - I wanted it to be permanent. Got a job, rented a house, was looking at buying, but that’s when it started to fall down. House prices are very high in comparison to wages and because I was older, it would have been only about a 12y mortgage (doesn’t work that way in the US). After 18 months of trying to make it work, we came back to the US.

The only reason we came back was because of finances. If I could live anywhere, it would be the UK.

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

Oh no! I‘m sorry to hear that!

You didn‘t want to rent a flat until you saved more money? Iirc over half of Londoners rent and about a third in the rest of the UK

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Melodic_Pattern175@reddit

Have you met Americans? My husband wouldn’t live in a flat even short term. There were of us (with youngest son) and a dog. It wasn’t London, and while I’m saving money, I’m getting older - kwim? So, I would “lose” another year they would give me for the mortgage.

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uyakotter@reddit

English friends visited our home in the UK. He’d rant about some unnecessary problem and, like an American, I’d offer a solution. He said nothing the first few times. Then he couldn’t take anymore and said “You don’t understand! Nothing can be changed. Ever! It doesn’t matter how good your idea is. There’s nothing you can do.” I knew I couldn’t live like that.

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Darmok47@reddit

Did a Master's degree in the UK. I was offerred a job, but studying abroad for two years somewhere and a job that could last for years or even become permanent was a different situation.

I'm also an only child, so the thought of me living in the UK while my parents got older was less appealing.

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vadabungo@reddit

Expired visa

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SaintsFanPA@reddit

1) I was one of the longest tenured expats at my company and they had a role in the US that they wanted me for.

2) I was approaching the 7-year limit in DK and if you stay past that and subsequently leave, they realize all your capital gains and tax them, which would have meant an \~50% chunk out of my 401k.

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gonyere@reddit

I came home to work for the summer. And got pregnant. Never made it back.

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stinson16@reddit

I haven't moved back yet, but I always planned on moving back eventually because of proximity to most of my family and friends.

As for like/didn't like: I'm in Canada, so lack of culture shock was something I liked, my experience with the healthcare system is better in Canada, I was able to find a city with the amenities I want (including not needing a car) with a much better cost of living to income ratio, university is way cheaper (my original reason for moving, I'm a dual citizen, so I get the Canadian citizen tuition rate). I dislike navigating systems I'm not familiar with (like the learning curve for the healthcare system) and the cost/time it takes to see my friends and family.

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sto_brohammed@reddit

I went back to the States largely for financial reasons. I actually moved back to France a few years later and I'm here now.

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alwaysboopthesnoot@reddit

Jobs and kids. Why we went, why we came home. We worked for a US company and went where they wanted us to go. As the kids got older, we wanted schools they could speak their own language in and also have more time with cousins and extended family. Wanted to buy a home here, settle in, instead of moving so frequently.

It was a great opportunity and experience, and now that my kids are in college or already out of the house, I would do it again.

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Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit

Student visa ended. I loved Italy. It was just cool living somewhere different. Also got free gelato and pizza every day which was amazing. The history was amazing! The people were friendly. That said the bad side had little to do with Italy itself and more the isolation portion of it. The only real bad thing is that you are playing Russian roulette with traveling. Any given time and day the buses and trains will go on strike and you’re risking being stranded in a random town, which happened a few times. Luckily I wasn’t too far bus would rather not have to walk with a full backpack for 10 miles in 95 degree heat

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Both_Wasabi_3606@reddit

I was sent to Europe by the military. I didn't have a choice when they sent me back. I would have stayed there as long as I could.

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Weknowwhyiamhere69@reddit

Did not have a job, wanted to keep making US Salary to keep buying stocks, so I can retire sometime in my 40's-50 max.

If I could have, I would have stayed forever

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blink-1hundert2und80@reddit (OP)

We knew why you were back in the US already 69

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Avinson1275@reddit

I lived in Italy from 1992 to 1995 but my dad got assigned a new duty station and 7 year old Army brat me couldn’t do anything to stop it lol.

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tujelj@reddit

I lived in Bangladesh for 2 years and Mexico for 1 year. Left Bangladesh mostly due to problems either my work visa, and Mexico because my job there wasn’t going to work out long term. I actually now live right by the border with Mexico, and cross about once a month, but it’s a totally different part of the country (Sonora vs Querétaro). I haven’t been back to Bangladesh for 8 years. I would love to visit again, but obviously it’s a very long and expensive flight from the US.

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parker9832@reddit

The US Navy returned me to the states. I would have stayed in Sardinia for ever is given the opportunity.

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SemanticPedantic007@reddit

Came back for money, and because I got tired of the crime. If the money had been the same, or close, I would probably never have left Latin America.

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ehunke@reddit

Income. Was living in the Philippines with my wife and her family, I have a resident visa but its harder then people think to establish employment abroad

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jerefromga@reddit

I was in the military and my tour was up.

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missxmeow@reddit

The military made my husband return, and I guess I love him so I can back too.

I loved every second of it, lived in Okinawa and it was so amazing and beautiful! He didn’t want to come back either, and extended as long as they would let him. Hoping to go back sometimes soon!

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