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AstridWarHal@reddit

And I'm fine you are against that. Religion should never become one with the state, no matter what the religion is.

I just hope you hold the same criticism against other religious groups that wish to do the same. Because I see a lot of political groups in Europe that wish to do the same but with christianity, and oh, behold, they haven't stopped rising in popularity these last years.

The fact that one is criticized and the other not is prejudice, and prejudice against Islam has a name.

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meatieso@reddit

Three things: one, what I believe or not about other form of radicalizations doesn't change the topic we're talking about, Muslim Brotherhood.

Two, I could reverse the same question, I see you worried more about ine kind of radicalization than the other and suggest you're "insert whatever name you like". I won't do that, because agains, that's not the topic.

Three, the rise of far right in Europe has little to do with Christian integrism. In that case Spain is an exception because conservatism in Spain is tied to Catholic values. And even is Spain is debatable, because there was a libertarian wing in the party that was purged. But in general, in Europe and partially in Spain, the rise of far right in Europe is not fueled by the defense of Christian traditional values and the prevalence of Christian values above the rule of law. That rise is fueled by inmigration, and oposition to the values those inmigrants bring (like Islam). French far right invoke civil and secular values in oposition to Islamism. And it's not the only far right party claiming that, but the most clear cut case.

Whataboutism and bad faith arguments won't take you far.

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Xion-raseri@reddit

How can you not take other religions etc into account when the topic is prejudice? Prejudice by definition has to take other things into account, as it’s about comparisons.

If you’re discussing if there’s prejudice against trait A, you also have to look at how B and C are treated. Otherwise you could make some very ridiculous claims:

“Everyone with trait A was fired, this is prejudice against trait A people!”

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Designer_Wear_4074@reddit

“Incompatible culture” this implies Europe has a culture to begin with

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MechaAristotle@reddit

Everyone has a culture lol, what is this dumb comment?

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Designer_Wear_4074@reddit

wrong europe doesnt

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Also, I never said "they are bad people". You are just putting words in my mouth here now. Being a bad person and having an incompatible culture or worldview is not the same thing. Right now you are generalizing things.

What is an incompatible culture? That they like humus?

No. When you say incompatible cultures you mean they have bad values, aka they are bad people.

"Culture" is a dogwhistle. There is no "muslim culture". Moroccan culture is different from Egyptian culture, is different from Saudi culture, is different from Palestinian culture, is different from Iranian culture, is different from Afghan culture, and is different from Indonesian culture. Not to mention culture changes. Italian culture is not the same as Italian-American culture.

The use of the word "culture" is part of a narrative. A narrative that there is an existential war going on. A war between "Judeo-Christian civilization" and "Muslim barbarism". Who benefits from the population buying into such a narrative? Those who can use it to take and hold power. Those who want the type of absolute control the population would never accept without a distraction or excuse. Authoritarians. Authoritarianism always requires an enemy.

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tomaznewton@reddit

islamic culture is praying 5 times a day, building mosques in countries abroad and not allowing churches in home countries, its forcing youg women to wear a veil and not young men, it's broadcasting 'call to prayers' in public, etc etc

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NovaKaizr@reddit

Literally all of those could have been used to describe christianity, and not even that long ago.

Building churches in other countries? Check. Literally even in countries they don't live, that is what missionaries are

Forcing clothing standards on women, placing limits on how much skin they are allowed to show? Check

Broadcasting calls to prayer in public? Check, that is what church bells are.

Had more in common with you regarding attitudes toward Islam

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NoxZeal@reddit

Poverty can cause psychological issues that make people commit crimes, that shouldn't be a really hot take. I don't know about a specific case where someone who drove into a christmas market is from a poor background but these people that do such things are generally accepted as crazies. To claim that Islam would command such a thing is sheer conspiracy (as is promoted by far right nutjobs), causes blanket discrimination suspicion upon Muslims and it would technically mean that every single Muslim out there doesn't practice their religion properly and the ones that are doing these crimes are doing it right.

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Advanced_Scratch2868@reddit

Is there poor Christians and poor Budhist driving a car into muslim fedtivals/markets? And judging how there are a lot more of Christians in the country, therefore a lot of them poor, there should be statisticaly a lot more of poor Christians who drive into muslim markets, right?

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Fit_Treacle_6077@reddit

Oh man.

You haven’t really kept up with world events have you?

You know the famous Buddhist country of Myanmar commits both ethnic and religious violence right? With one of the crimes being genocide.

Did you also forget Thailand occupies Malay ethnic land and has been involved in some level of ethnic cleansing but only pushed back hard by the Malay - Indo states?

Let’s also not forget the time the Philippines had a radical Christian nationalist who decided to killing some ethnic Muslim group can causing a civil war when trying to invade Malaysia was a good idea thus causing decades of terror from both sides.

The famous Hindu state of India has backed state ethnic cleansing on Christian, Muslim and Sikh population leading to separatism and violence with Hindu radicals committing mass atrocities.

Let’s also not forget the terror state known as Israel.

However let’s also take it a further did we forget about the White Supermacist who shot up a mosque in New Zealand, and the one that did it Canada, and the stabbing that occurred in France.

Let’s not forget the numerous hate crimes and violent crimes by almost every group on earth to another but in Europe predominantly to Muslim, Jews, Asians and Africans in general.

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Advanced_Scratch2868@reddit

Thank you for such a homework. My appologies for not being specific enough. My comment was for western countries that are majorly Christian (because that is what the topic was about so I did not felt the need to specify). My question then would be why is there no bunch of poor Christians who shoot up the muslim markets, in the western countries?

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Fit_Treacle_6077@reddit

I believe this is due to the Muslim population being smaller and more disassociated in the past to be directly aimed as target.

For example, if you think about most inspired attack events against civilians in the west they often motivated in most cases due to European interventionism which results in killings abroad.

The average European citizen until more recently aside from more nationalist groups or nations didn’t particular view the Islamic world as a whole.

Eg: the Anglo most likely due to their colonialism was able to distinguish Muslims by regional and national differences in which Islam as a religion was also extremely diverse.

If you notice most attackers also come from nations that often were affected by modern imperialism, colonialism or interventionism.

I am not arguing it is morally correct, I am arguing the mindset of people who attack and their reasoning even if it is bad.

More local grown populations who grew up in discrimination often also radicalise which privileged,uneducated or propagandised group also can commit violence (eg: radical white young men which has been a growing issue).

We seen this during the Serbian ethnic cleaning campaigns against the Bosnians.

We also see a lot of violence against minorities and why they choose not to use vehicles could be a just be the connivence or targeted way of what they wanted to do.

Terror groups want to maximise causalities regardless of religion as a reputational gain. They groups or individuals like Brenton (New Zealand shooter) was motivated by targeted killings of a group.

This is also seen in white nationalist who want to avoid killing whites:

2022 Buffalo shooting

Most crimes committed by Europeans tend to be outside of Europe which is why they might be a confusion to why Europeans feel they are being targeted.

For example: The Afghanistan killing fields event that was perpetrated by young white men often Christian from Australia:

(Detailed new report from ABC if you wish to watch the full segment):

https://youtu.be/-GPplTKCYpQ?si=b56uzoRimwRqBu3T

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report

Now imagine someone who grew up in a non western country who often see these crimes occurring due to their media focus on it, grew up experiencing these crimes or grew up with families experiencing these crimes.

They get radicalised and commit mass atrocities.

Let’s also argue poor people and committing crime.

If you are indigenous to the land you already at an advantage due to cultural dominance and less societal discrimination. This also applies to religious majorities,

Driving a car? Poor Christians prefer to shoot up minority spaces, thank you!

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Independent_Owl_8121@reddit

Radicalism is also linked to poverty, if people are having their basic needs met and can live a good life, they are much more likely to assimilate into the system they are under instead of turning to radicalism.

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Fit_Treacle_6077@reddit

That and propaganda.

Examples of wealthy population committing large organise crime etc can be also due to perceived injustice eg:

Over the top reactions to affirmative action or reparations Eg: South East Asia

In which some foreign groups benefited from European colonialism due to segregation, ethnic cleaning or genocide.

While divisionism can play a rule in ethnic conflicts eg: Africa often stemming from colonialism

You also have poverty which can lead to massive levels of crime as seen all over the world and can lead to massive levels of failed integration eg:

Sweden failures to provide job programs and non ghettofication to refugees which lead to crime rates increasing this failure.

You do realise there's Muslim majority countries in Europe and the EU, right?

doesn't mean they're all bad either

arguably.

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Advanced_Scratch2868@reddit

As someone from B&H, I'll tell you right away it is bad to take it as example. It is complicated country with complicated political system. So complicated we acctualy have 3 Presidents. 3 ethnic groups and political system that must take all 3 in specific way when dealing with public positions. And there are Vehabije- very stoneage muslims who the rest of the country, even including a some Bosnian muslims despise or are in fear of. Some muslims from B&H fought for ISIS and country is trying to get them to court.

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_El_Bokononista_@reddit

I don't care, that wasn't the question about

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BernieMP@reddit

The 1st comment claims Islam is incompatible with western culture (claim: Islam is incompatible with western culture)

The 2nd comment mentions that there are majority Muslim countries in the EU already (rebuttal: Islam is already compatible with western culture)

3rd comment asks which countries those are (disbelief? Idk)

4th comment (you) list out the majority Muslim countries (proof)

5th comment replies with a clear example of the inability to incorporate into western culture (claim: 3 different governments in a single country is not compatibility)

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TheRealMudi@reddit

Leave it to Americans to spew some random bullshit lmao

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Cheesen_One@reddit

Islamophobes:

Islamists:

Gatekeeping what a true muslim is.

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Statement_I_am_HK-47@reddit

Here in America, we had, and still have, people who say this exact thing about black and hispanic people, swearing up and down that connecting it to poverty is bleeding heart leftism.

Considering the thousands of artists, teachers, writers that Israel murdered in cold blood whose only crime was using a pen to tell the outside world of the misery the Zionist state is putting them through, it hasn’t taught you anything either.

That is not what the report is arguing.

the report's authors said that "no recent document demonstrates the desire of Muslims in France to establish an Islamic state in France or to enforce Sharia law there."

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Bravemount@reddit

And yet the report argues that there is a subversive project aiming to threaten gender equality and secularism.

I think you'd be surprised just how many people would agree with Islamist rhetoric in France. The goal seems to be to normalize those beliefs, not garner people to a political cause like the far-right.

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Bravemount@reddit

Well, if you consider the overlap between far right ideology and islamism, especially about gender equality, sexual minorities, etc. yeah, you'll find plenty of people who agree with some islamist rhetoric.

But the far right has achieved everything the islamists have achieved and then much more on top, so I don't see how you can possibly believe them to be of similar influence.

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soggycow2790@reddit

Yes, I agree in part. I also think, however, that a large part (perhaps even the largest part) of the far-right’s growth in recent decades is due not solely to their ideological positions on these subjects, but also because people have grown weary of the current system. Most people tend to vote for extremists when they feel things aren’t working out under traditional parties, not necessarily because they agree with their ideology.

This is the biggest and most glaring difference to me and what makes Islamism, in my opinion, similarly dangerous. Because Islamism relies solely on deep religious belief and ideology in the West, not political frustration. Becoming an Islamist or subscribing to Islamist rhetoric is not a protest vote, it is a conviction.

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Bravemount@reddit

The main factor behind the growth of the far right is a divide and conquer strategy used against the poor in class warfare, orchestrated through billionaire owned media and social networks. Russia is also pushing hard on this as it fractures the West. I suspect billionaires to work hand in hand with Russia because they like the oligarchic system they have, so their interests align.

Establishment parties are trying to maintain the neoliberal status quo that causes the popular frustration you mentioned because of financial interests and/or ideological blindness, thus adding to the growth of the far right instead of fighting it, thus being useful idiots. A look at the 1930s shows how this will end for them and us all.

The lack of perspectives and sense of belonging this causes, especially in young people, works just as well to push young Muslims into the arms of islamists as it works for pushing other young people to the far right.

Still, the people in power deploy more energy to fight the left, which has actual, proven to work solutions to societal issues because they are more scared of the wealthy having to pay taxes than they are of the rise of fascism.

because low birth rates aren't a result of immigration

nobody is claiming that though. mass immigration (from culturally foreign societies) is a response to low birth rate, against the will of the host population. that is the nutshell of the replacement argument.

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nothingpersonnelmate@reddit

It's still flawed in the sense that people aren't being replaced, they're choosing not to have children and then also other people are immigrating. There's no active effort to reduce the size of one group and increase the size of another in its place, which would be the literal form of replacement in this context.

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Phiggle@reddit

I agree with you. As with many driving factors in today's political discourse, the more high-resolution the ideas are observed, the less black and white they become.

My gripe was that I didn't argue for or against this theory. I simply stated that, in my view, many people see and use this theory to make decisions, which could be one of the factors driving politics at the moment.

Grumblepugs2000@reddit

And not for the better. They will look like Lebanon in 50 years

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marcusaurelius_phd@reddit

They're 80% of our high security prisoners.

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Bibliloo@reddit

You're right the gauls have nearly disappeared since the Roman and Frankish conquest in the 1st century.

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In which case you have no need to bring up the Quran any more than bring up the Bible when discussing radicalized Christians. It’s a perversion of their religion.

People immigrating are adding to the population of a country, they aren’t “replacing” the population. The fact that you see Muslim immigrants as not actually French is the issue.

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Netsuko@reddit

Also Islam is NOT a race. So stop pulling the racist card when it makes no sense.

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loggy_sci@reddit

Something tells me you don’t have an issue with white European Muslims.

"Why is “the West” comprised almost entirely of white-majority countries?"

Uuuh.. you know... geography?

"What exactly makes non-Western values inferior to Western values?"

I may have expressed myself wrong. I said "people who respect western values and the values of the country they live in." Because I am from a western country and thus, have western values. A country like Japan obviously isn't western but still has good societal values.

But as example, and I am talking about islamic countries here: The prosecution of homosexuals and people of other faiths, the severely restricted or non-existent rights of women, child marriage, sharia law in general.

I understand that of course, not EVERY muslim-majority country has the same amount of the things I just listed, but especially in arabic countries, many of these things exist. Women's rights literally do not exist in Afghanistan. Same in Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen.

Now, what nationalities do we get as refugees here in Europe? Syria and Afghanistan are two of the big ones. And it's overwhelmingly young men. No women and children.

You don't go to Iraq, to Syria or to Afghanistan and demand a christan church, food that aligns with your faith, christian holidays, you don't demand that your language and religion is taught in schools.

Yet ALL these things are provided here in Europe, some more than others depending on the country. We have mosques, we have halal food, we have classes in school that teach the quran and that teach arabic and other languages. It makes it harder and harder for people and their kids to integrate into this society because they have no desire to integrate. They want THEIR values, THEIR values and THEIR laws to be the defining features.

People get radicalized by islamistic figures inside the mosques that were built for them.
Islamic values and world views are not compatible with the western world.

This is NOT about saying "people from islamic countries are lesser" But I AM saying that I am seriously concerned about the kind of values and world views many of these countries have and that those who come here are trying to impose those views and values on us.

But I am also not allowed to say "I am concerned about my country" because apparently that is enough to be labeled a right win nut, which is also just another tactic to silence people.

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centaur_unicorn23@reddit

Europeans are hilarious when they talk about values and what’s right and what’s wrong. This is expected. It’s in your history, and a large part human history. Divide and conquer, village to village, country to country. We never learn to coexist with the ‘other’. Ultimately this fear we have for a group different than us is probably a defense or learned thing from early man. Now we have that feeling still and it must truly torment us but don’t really know why, so we use any reason we need to in order to justify our violent actions. France and any European country will change, without asking for permission sooner than later. We’re so naive to think we have any say in this. 300 years ago we were peasants and now we want to stop the river current from flowing because we believe our short history on this particular soil belongs to us and we’re in charge if the values that rest upon its land. It’s a bit nonsensical, especially when it inevitably leads to war and death. I live in Canada where we are striving towards multiculturalism. We’re not perfect but we have progressed. We depend on our citizens and immigrants and we believe in respecting their cultures and values. I agree that there can be and does, create conflicts if left unguided. I believe in order to have 2 or multiple cultures exist together, a government has to be proactive in education on both sides. If France has new muslims the government should provide (friendly welcoming) training and education on values and customs, and the government should educate their citizens with western values on other cultures and values. I’ve met too many racist Europeans (and racists in general) that lack education and are fueling their fears on wives tales and lies. It’s one or the other. Peace or war and I choose peace which means we have to do the hard thing and learn to play nice in the sandbox together. The easy road is to go to war and expel the ‘other’. Problem with that is we are all the other.

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zanotam@reddit

Oh my god, you just word for word said the famous, racist talking point.

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pm-your-maps@reddit

You are mixing two different things. The report refers to the Muslim Brotherhood ideology, not the Muslim communities within the French population.

The Muslim Brotherhood is an islamist organization, read up about them. Not everything has to be islamophobia.

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You say the far right is the real threat

How many far right beheadings have there been in France?

Why on earth would a secular democracy give political representation to islamists? If that's important to them, they can emigrate to one of the 30 islamist theocracies in the world

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Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit

How difficult is it to realize the religious fanaticism is a conservative ideological belief, regardless of religion?

Religious terrorism, regardless of the religion or indeed the colour of their skin, is inherently right wing terrorism. You will struggle to find any religious fundamentalist who espoused leftist ideological beliefs.

Terrorism carried out in the name of Allah is right wing terror, the same as terrorism carried out in the name of the white race.

Neither act of terror justifies demonizing that entire group.

Imagine if we treated all white people the way we (should) treat white supremacists? Suggesting that all white people fundamentally believe in violent, repressive societal change in alignment with Christian fundamentalists? Cite the most violent passage of the Christian Bible?

More people have been murdered in the name of “Western values” than every other ideological murder combined.

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KaleidoscopeOrnery39@reddit

How many beheadings by Catholics have there been in the last five years?

How many people have been killed for insulting Jesus?

Many countries prescribe death as the punishment for insulting Islam

Islamism is inherently violent and anti democratic

It's totally fine to have Muslims in Europe but the idea of tolerating political Islam is abhorrent

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Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit

For starters, there’s the million Iraqi civilians slaughtered in the 21st century in the name of “defending the West” after a terrorist attack was carried out by a man funded by the US government (“one nation under [the Christian] God”) with the prior knowledge of the US government.

The hundreds of thousands of Palestinians slaughtered in the name of “defending the West” over the decades

Does the Catholic Church condemn child abuse?

Many Islamist countries still kill people for apostasy

Just so you know most people in the Iraq War were killed by Sunni and Shia militias

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FixFederal7887@reddit

Most civilians were killed by US carpet bombing .

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celloh234@reddit

world’s worst humanitarian crisis for women and girls definitely does not mean most violent war in the world and worst humanitarian crisis and definitely not in history

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Islam is sexist and homophobic. Tolerating it is encouraging sexism, homophobia and terrorism.

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AFuckingDuck_69@reddit

This has nothing to do with the conversation

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SignificantAd1421@reddit

I mean the hijab is a symbol of oppression it is forced by men on women.

That is textbook oppression

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Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit

Lots of women wear the hijab willingly. Of course I’m against women wearing it out of pressure from their family(as am I with other religious veils), to characterize the hijab as textbook oppression is very dumb

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It was about 10 in 2023. From 6.8 to 9 million in 2 years.

MrMakarov@reddit

That % is going to rapidly increase along with Muslim extremists. They dont want to integrate, they want to replace. I'm curious to see how much longer it will take for for people like you to realise this.

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As an American I'll never act like my shit doesn't stink, but it's always funny to see Europeans froth at the mouth over Muslim immigrants while pretending to be saints of tolerance and liberal values compared to us uneducated rednecks across the Atlantic.

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Yeah… well I’m french too and I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

France has been fighting muslim brotherhood pretty actively since the 90’s and the Algerian civil war.

The main issue is that they were protected by US and UK.

SlylaSs@reddit

oh welcome back Camus

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BabylonianWeeb@reddit

Pretty sure he was a zionist.

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SlylaSs@reddit

I'm talking of the Great Replacement Theory

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HummusSwipper@reddit (OP)

Sir, this is a shawarma shop

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Juice-De-Pomme@reddit

Retailleux is one of the more disgustingly islamophobic ministers we've had in decades.

This guy just went to an event and rambled for minutes about veiled women in sports. Saying they should be banned for wearing a scarf on their heads.

This was at an event against antisemitism, there was 100 other subjects to be mentioned, and he CHOSE to make it about islam then and there.

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hiphipbrilliantaj@reddit

Islamophobia is term used to silence criticism of Islam and nothing more. Misogyny, homophobia, these are some actual issues happily practised by muslims

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Juice-De-Pomme@reddit

Nope islamophobia is used to designate hatred of muslims. Although etymologicaly it may sound like it means fear of the religion, it is only used like this to legitimize people that hate muslims.

Language is made of usage, when i say retailleux is islamophobe i mean he hates muslim people. Because he does.

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Bwri017@reddit

Quietly fuck off man. The religion of Islam is fundamentally incompatible with western values. Free expression, equal rights, legal protection from cruel and unusual punishment. just look up Islamic jurisprudence. Which isn't just something contained with scripture, it's part of the legal framework for several countries (Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, etc.).

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Juice-De-Pomme@reddit

Dumbass, i am muslim and actually know some islamic laws. As if christianity was compatible with western values? Have you heard of sodom and gomore?

I'll tell you something you've probably never heard, because you see islam through the scope of media you have access to. In islam converting someone by force is prohibited, and a sin. Killing without trial by judges appointed by a sultan, is a sin. Telling anyone how to behave so long as they're not muslim is prohibited. Thinking mulsims in europe want to install muslim laws is delusional and wrong.

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Bwri017@reddit

The difference is that Christianity went through a period called the enlightenment. They collectively agreed that some of the stuff in scripture was plain lunacy. The same thing cant be said for Islam. Name me a modern western democracy that isn't secular. Even Israel is a secular government. The same cant be said for many countries where Islam dominates.

I'll tell you something you've probably never heard, because you see islam through the scope of media you have access to. In islam converting someone by force is prohibited, and a sin. Killing without trial by judges appointed by a sultan, is a sin. Telling anyone how to behave so long as they're not muslim is prohibited. Thinking mulsims in europe want to install muslim laws is delusional and wrong.

Even if Islamic courts operated with complete transparency and were entirely free of corruption, many of the prescribed rulings and punishments would still be considered by modern standards to be excessively harsh and inhumane. For example, amputating the hand of a thief, executing someone for blasphemy, or stoning a woman to death for adultery are practices that raise serious human rights concerns. Such punishments, while rooted in traditional interpretations, are not merely theoretical—they have been carried out in recent times, as evidenced by several high-profile cases in countries like Pakistan.

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Juice-De-Pomme@reddit

Islamic courts

In what context do you think muslim courts operate? European countries?

What is at stake here? Western values in western countries, or western values in all countries? Do you even understand the fact that western values may not be everyone on earth's values?

amputating, executing, stoning

Once again, not carried out by muslims in western countries. But even then, you are looking at it at face value. In western countries religious sins are sometimes crimes but not always, and law is a lot more leniant nowadays than 100s of years ago. But in a muslim country, where there is a sultan (which there hasn't been since the fall of the ottoman empire) this is normal. People are taught that sinning is a crime. Countries have different ways of dealing with crime, in the US, death penalty still exists, so is the problem where we draw the line in the sand?

By the way, cherry picking, not all thieves have their hands cutoff, why? Because in a muslim country where a muslim law is to be applied, there shouldn't be homeless / poor people. So there would be no need for stealing.

You're gona tell me it's utopic and irrealistic, but that is the basis of the law. Applying it in a country where there is no sultan, no judges, is not normal for muslims.

every country is secular except muslim

You are right. I prefer none getting in my life.

And right now the only ones who have actually managed to leverage the countries laws to get in the lifes of people in Europe and America are the Christians.

Should we go raid the Vatican city?

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DharmaPolice@reddit

Yes?

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hiphipbrilliantaj@reddit

Not suggesting that at all, thats how you have deciced to interpret it. Can't speak to many of those religions but Christianity obviously has a massive problem with both of those things, difference is I've never heard the term christianophobia, only ever islamophobia.

We can freely criticise the faults and barbarism of Christianity but the same can not be said about islam without being labelled islamophobic.

As a bisexual I obviously despice all abrahamic religion though there is only one that I feel inherently unsafe around and I assure you I'm not the only memeber of the community who feels this way.

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AstridWarHal@reddit

It might be because that critic of faults and barbarism of islam always comes with a bunch og thinly veiled racism.

The fact that you feel inherently unsafe around one and not the other just shows that this is not for the freedom of minorities, this is because you have a bias.

I have been born under a christian family, raised in a catholic school. I have known muslims and christians alike.

Extremists from both sides suck, both should be booted out of positions of power and the people should know about what they do. And both have caring people that only wish the best for everyone.

Surely Zionism will save us from this existential threat.

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EdHake@reddit

Don’t think France taking a shot at muslim brotherhood, which are behind a lot of terrorist attacks and beheading of teachers… means France défends Israël.

Right now France is pushing for the recognition of Gaza and the two state solution for the Israël/Palestin issue… this is very very far from what Nethanyahoo hopes to achieve.

Also would be very surprised if France lets Israël invade Lebanon like they plan to do it.

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zanotam@reddit

France... Who is doing nothing after their ambassador was fucking fired at by the IDF? That France?

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Lopsided-Garlic-5202@reddit

Well, I mean, some news outlets did say that the delegation went stray away from their designated path. I don't know if it's true or not, but i'd reckon they're not stupid enough to fire at a diplomatic delegation on purpose. You'd expect the responsible person or people that were guiding the diplomats to stick to the plan and take care of their safety, unless it was all done on purpose.

So I don't really know what would you except to happen from any state who's delegate was shot at to do other than vent a bit of their anger the Israeli ambassadors

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Master_Income_8991@reddit

Yeah I'm just making fun of the (likely Zionist) fear porn.

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BabylonianWeeb@reddit

Israel are weaponzing refugees against Europem

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Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit

Israel is weaponzing refugees against Europe

Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit

Hmmm, I wonder why?

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soggycow2790@reddit

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hirmooge@reddit

When news is slow bring up Islam

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empleadoEstatalBot@reddit

French report warns of spread of Muslim Brotherhood ideology

France

Religion

According to a confidential government report, the Muslim Brotherhood poses a long-term threat to France's national cohesion – not through violence, but by gradually eroding secular values at the local level.
   [France's Minister of the Interior Bruno Retailleau delivers a press conference during a visit to the Pissevin neighborhood in Nimes, southeastern France, on May 16, 2025.](https://img.lemde.fr/2025/05/16/0/0/4253/2835/664/0/75/0/28a3535_ftp-import-images-1-ucco052x5hcw-5919827-01-06.jpg)  France's Minister of the Interior Bruno Retailleau delivers a press conference during a visit to the Pissevin neighborhood in Nimes, southeastern France, on May 16, 2025. SYLVAIN THOMAS / AFP  The Muslim Brotherhood movement is a "threat to national cohesion" in France and action must be taken to stop the spread of "political Islamism," according to a report to be presented to President Emmanuel Macron on Wednesday, May 21. "The reality of this threat, even if it is long term and does not involve violent action, poses a risk of damage to the fabric of society and republican institutions (...) and, more broadly, to national cohesion," said the report, a copy of which was obtained by Agence France-Presse (AFP) on Tuesday. The report, prepared by two senior civil servants, is to be examined by the Defense Council on Wednesday.
France and Germany have the biggest Muslim populations among European Union countries. The report pointed to the spread of Islamism "from the bottom up" and at the municipal level, adding that the phenomenon constituted "a threat in the short to medium term." In France, the movement is "based on a solid structure, but political Islamism is spreading primarily at the local level," the authors stressed. "Resolute and long-term action on the ground seems necessary to stem the rise of political Islamism," they said.

The report highlighted the "subversive nature of the project," saying it aims "to gradually bring about changes to local or national rules," particularly those concerning secularism and gender equality. Such "municipal Islamism" risks affecting the public sphere and local politics, the report said, pointing to "the creation of increasingly numerous Islamist ecosystems."

France's conservative Interior Minister Bruno Retailleau expressed concern on Tuesday about "a low-level Islamism" whose "ultimate goal is to turn the entire French society to Sharia law." However, the report's authors said that "no recent document demonstrates the desire of Muslims in France to establish an Islamic state in France or to enforce Sharia law there."

Musulmans de France ("Muslims in France"), formerly the Union of Islamic Organizations of France, is identified as "the national branch of the Muslim Brotherhood in France." "We are not dealing with aggressive separatism" but a "subtle (...) yet no less subversive aim for the institutions," the authors said.

The report estimates that there are 139 places of worship affiliated with Muslims of France, with an additional 68 considered close to the federation. This represents 7% of the 2,800 Muslim places of worship listed in France, the report said. The Islamist movement is losing its influence in the Arab world and "focusing its efforts on Europe," it added. A public awareness campaign must be combined with renewed efforts to promote a "secular discourse" as well as "strong and positive signals to the Muslim community" including the teaching of Arabic, the report said.
Le Monde with AFP
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