Nvidia’s Chief Says U.S. Chip Controls on China Have Backfired | Jensen Huang, the chipmaker’s top executive, said the attempt to cut off the flow of advanced A.I. chips spurred Chinese companies to “accelerate their development.”
Posted by moses_the_blue@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 301 comments
basedIITian@reddit
while I'm sure that's true to a large extent, HIS only interest here is to be able to sell his chips to China more openly.
Veastli@reddit
The truth is that Nvidia wants to sell to China, and Nvidia doesn't care if those sales damage the western democracies in favor of China's dictatorship.
The other truth is that China is still 10-15 years behind the west in chip fabrication. Yes, China can make chips, but they're 3 to 4 generations old.
What Jensen is moaning about is not happening. China cannot produce competitive A.I. chips. Jenson is crying wolf because he can't sell China as many chips as he would like t.
TLDR - Jensen has a massive economic incentive to lie about this, and that's exactly what he's doing.
More-Ad-4503@reddit
fyi China is a democracy and not a dictatorship
Mindless_Sundae8538@reddit
There's nothing right about it.
Perfect_Cost_8847@reddit
Strazdas1@reddit
Ah yes, the democracy where you can choose from 1 party because the other parties are outlawed.
StickiStickman@reddit
Do people actually believe this bullshit?
Perfect_Cost_8847@reddit
I don’t see how you could argue restricting advanced chips wouldn’t harm China in some way. Are you claiming countries don’t need advanced chips to remain competitive? Really?
StickiStickman@reddit
Good thing I never said that? I just think it's stupid to want to harm China. The US is extremely clearly (especially the last few months) not a functioning democracy. And China is not a dictatorship, since there's no dictator, but authoritarian.
But of course you don't give a shit about facts and just want to spout US propaganda.
Mindless_Sundae8538@reddit
Obviously no one wants to make a country that is so disgusting stronger
Mindless_Sundae8538@reddit
Obviously no one wants to renew the power of a country that is so disgusting
Perfect_Cost_8847@reddit
Well considering China has been stealing US IP for decades and committing countless acts of espionage, why wouldn’t the U.S. consider China an adversary? Xi Jinping has made statements like “The East is rising and the West is declining,” and that the People’s Liberation Army must be ready to confront a “strong enemy.” You don’t have a firm grasp of geopolitics if you don’t understand that China and the U.S. are adversaries.
JUSTsMoE@reddit
Time to learn Chinese, Buddy. They are coming for you.
More-Ad-4503@reddit
Reddit has an insane amount of botting from the CIA, Israel, and "NATO" countries. It's really more of a propaganda network than anything else.
Silly_Macaron_7943@reddit
Apparently filling up with wumao as well.
rilgebat@reddit
Not very good wumao though honestly. This latest crop don't even bother to even try to make themselves seem legitimate, and the usage of botted upvotes are really blatant. About as convincing as Baghdad Bob. If I was the CCP, I'd ask for a refund.
Strazdas1@reddit
Its surprisingly how you managed to get everything completely backwards.
JUSTsMoE@reddit
Which propaganda software do you run on?
Southern_Change9193@reddit
still 10-15 years behind the west in chip fabrication.
Which company in the west produced 7 nm chip 10-15 years ago?
Strazdas1@reddit
China does not produce 7 nm chips.
Southern_Change9193@reddit
This is from 3 years ago:
https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-services/techinsights/317732-does-smic-have-7nm-and-if-so-what-does-it-mean/
Strazdas1@reddit
The quad patterned chips with yield so bad they only have enough for a few preview models?
Southern_Change9193@reddit
LOL. 🤣🤣🤣
Veastli@reddit
China 7nm /= TSMC 7nm, which doesn't equal Intel 7nm.
All the measurements are a lie. China is greatly exaggerating their prowess.
Southern_Change9193@reddit
Alright, let's discuss comparable numbers. The logic cell density for SMIC's 7 nm process is 89 Mtr/mm²
Which company in the West could do this 10-15 years ago?
ConsequenceExpress39@reddit
wow, what happend? looks like someone just quit the convs.
joelypolly@reddit
Pretty sure SMIC 7nm is exactly TSMC 7nm given how many TSMC employees they have hired.
cosmogli@reddit
The western world has enabled more dictatorships across the world and killed more innocent civilians in made up wars than anyone else though.
Bill10101101001@reddit
How is that relevant?
Shirkir@reddit
Democracies are overrated and just as capable in committing evil, that making morale comparisons is meaningless.
Silly_Macaron_7943@reddit
^ that. Jensen Huang is full of shit.
PandaCheese2016@reddit
Is there a solid example not involving abstract generalizations like "AI improves warfighting capabilities" about how it damages the western democracies? I always thought the core strength of western democracies is individual freedom protected by relatively transparent system of justice, that encourages innovation and entrepreneurship.
xternocleidomastoide@reddit
Wait, you mean to tell me the CEO of a company, that sells stuff, wants to be able to sell more that stuff?
greenndreams@reddit
His point is that we must take Jensen's word with a grain of salt. He has exterior motives in this discussion.
cosine83@reddit
Ulterior motives*
Strazdas1@reddit
exterior is correct here. The motives are outside the discussion, not hidden.
cosine83@reddit
Ulterior is the right word, actually. Jensen's actual intentions have to be explained as they're not his stated intentions. Kind of the definition of ulterior.
Strazdas1@reddit
No, it is not. Ulterior means the motive is hidden. The motive here is not hidden, its external to what is being said, thus exterior.
PandaCheese2016@reddit
Corporations seeking profit I would say is their primary motive.
xternocleidomastoide@reddit
Are you sure the interview was done outdoors?
greenndreams@reddit
I meant exterior as in 'outside this discussion.' Ulterior didn't seem appropriate since you were already implying it wasn't ulterior.
puffz0r@reddit
I feel like this is true of any CEO statements for any company ever.
HilLiedTroopsDied@reddit
enterprise and consumer is selling everything nvidia can make, There is no extra supply for China, It would only cause nvidia to RAISE prices even higher.
FilteringAccount123@reddit
"Shovel-seller during gold rush worries about others selling shovels"
KristinnK@reddit
More like "Shovel-seller during gold rush worries about shovel-selling ban".
His main concern isn't about Chinese competitors. He knows those are still too far into the future to worry about. His concern is getting to sell accelerators to the massive Chinese market.
Aggrokid@reddit
I don't think he is worried about China's local shovels, he just wants to be able to sell shovels.
Thingreenveil313@reddit
https://i.redd.it/9ywh4vkdoly51.jpg
DJKaotica@reddit
Also this has spurred competition, which is bad for nVidia. What if a legitimate new GPU chip builder comes out of this?
MisterSheikh@reddit
It’s more than that, he doesn’t want potential competitors. Ultimately he is right.
dparks1234@reddit
If companies were somehow patriotic enough to publicly support the trade war then they probably wouldn’t have willingly sold out in the first place. Companies don’t take sides, they take payments
basedIITian@reddit
I'm not some arbiter of what's right and what's wrong. I'm just pointing out the likely intention behind him making this claim.
skycake10@reddit
China's not stupid, that was going to happen one way or another. If we hadn't embargoed the most powerful chips China might have taken a bit longer to make this same progress, but they were always going to do everything they could to become self-sufficient regardless of what level of chips Nvidia was allowed to sell them.
Vb_33@reddit
One thing to consider is that Nvidia has a vested interest in an open market because that lets them make more money. Company statements on politics are pretty much always PR, Nvidia does not benefit in the short or medium term from trade wars therefore they must apply whatever pressure or influence they can in turning the tide.
Another way to put it. A nation shouldn't bet their national security strategy on the whims of a globalized public company, they don't care about national security they care about the bottom line.
ghenriks@reddit
So you are saying a valid national security strategy is to alienate the world against you and force those “enemies” to develop their own technology?
The point Nvidia is making is that the national security strategy of restricting sales to China has failed. China has simply developed their own technology to replace the banned US hardware
And in the meantime the EU and rest of the world is observing and saying we could be next, so they to are developing their own technology
So all this “national security” ban has done is harm US based businesses
Strazdas1@reddit
So you prefer short term gains against long term security.
ghenriks@reddit
Nope.
I think China is a threat.
But the export ban is not providing long term security because it is at best a short term hindrance to China as they simply develop the ability to create the hardware themselves (or get access to it via 3rd parties)
The only long term security against China is to continue to out innovate them and be the better option for other countries of the world.
Sadly the US is deliberately failing on both of those.
By attacking the rest of the world with tariffs and cutting off US foreign aid the US is making it clear to the rest of the world that China is a better partner than the US.
By doubling down on oil and killing off the move to renewables and EV cars, slashing research funding, attacking universities and telling the brightest students in the world they are no longer welcome in the US the current government is taking the US backwards while China invests heavily in the future.
So in short, the US Government is handing the future to China all so they can give tax cuts to the billionaires.
Congratulations.
JakeTappersCat@reddit
The real intention of the chip bans is to "decouple" the Chinese economy from the US economy so the US can fight a war in Taiwan without severely damaging the US economy and stock market. The Pentagon has been planning a war with China in the south China seas for over a decade. It started under Obama after China caught all the CIA agents that had been placed all over china and executed them, which made the CIA furious and totally destroyed their capacity to surveil the Chinese government and military
The plan was to shift low cost manufacturing to India (essentially replacing China with India as a producer of goods) and to slowly restrict trade with China until eventually US-China trade would drop to insignificant levels. Then Taiwan declares "independence" and the US military sets up in Taiwan and cuts China off from the island which would give the US control over all the cutting edge semiconductor fabrication capacity on earth
ghenriks@reddit
Except China is now developing cutting edge semiconductor capabilities because the US banned sales to China
And the EU is developing semiconductor capabilities because they don't trust the US anymore.
So how does the US achieve this goal exactly?
Strazdas1@reddit
China is only developing them in their propaganda, so theres that.
Aggrokid@reddit
That is probably too optimistic. SMIC struggles with anything 7nm and below, and China cannot replicate ASML.
puffz0r@reddit
It's a really dumb idea to fight over Taiwan. Honestly, the US has already lost the war before it even started. The only way they can even conceivably fight that war is with a nuclear first strike and that's just so unpredictable that I can't think of any serious person believing that to be a viable military strategy. America was really late to the party with the CHIPS act and trying to reshore some of the manufacturing capacity that we'd need if Taiwan comes under occupation but it's nowhere near enough. We don't have any supply chain, no rare earth refining, nothing - simply because we let the market run amok and there's not enough profit in that kind of business when FIRE sector gets double digit returns due to inadequate legislation. We really architected our own demise with the constant trend towards laissez faire markets.
dparks1234@reddit
Yep, Nvidia and other companies don’t actually care about the USA as a nation. They care about the economy and the privileges granted to them, but they give zero fucks about geopolitics or national loyalty.
That goes for pretty much every American company outside of maybe the defence industry since they’re tied to geopolitics. Even then Lockheed would probably sell shit to Russia if there were no downsides for them.
randomkidlol@reddit
defense corporations would double deal if they could. imagine the profits in shipping missiles, planes, bullets, whatever to 2 countries currently fighting a war against each other. and the leverage they would have in price negotiations if they said "oh your enemy is buying more of this, you should take out another loan and buy more before they do". nations will bankrupt themselves buying military equipment and corporations would gladly reap all the rewards.
Strazdas1@reddit
This literally happened in WW2 until US stepped in and started sinking convoys from companies that did double dealing.
Cheerful_Champion@reddit
Yes, precisely this. Jensen says sanctions backfired, because China developed their own hardware. Goal was never to stop China from developing their own. Goal was to make sure China has access to inferior hardware.
Which is exactly what happened. Huawei's system is 2.3 times less power-efficient per FLOP. It's also more than 3 times more expensive than Nvidia GB200 NVL72 while being only almost 2 times as fast in BF16 compute.
So what happened is exactly opposite to what Jensen says. Sanctions succeeded. China has less efficient, more expensive and more complicated (thus harder to maintain) hardware.
Exist50@reddit
That absolutely was part of it. Hence the restrictions on Huawei and various fabs.
And what was the gap 5 years ago? What about 5, 10 years from now?
Cheerful_Champion@reddit
Who says that was the goal? Because I don't believe for a moment any sensible person thought it's possible.
Smaller than now. ~5 years ago Huawei released AI Huawei Ascend 910 that was close to twice as fast in FP16, had similar power draw and was a bit more defensive than V100. So try again.
Exist50@reddit
Do you believe these policy decisions are necessarily being made by sensible people?
Would caution against comparing paper specs. Remember that Nvidia has drastically increased the nominal flop count by both tensor cores and the normal ALU, but real workload gains have been smaller.
Anyway, the question is how much of the gap today can be explained by the node difference and to what degree that can be relied on to continue indefinitely. If the nominal concern is military, then that's a multi-decade, not multi-year race.
skycake10@reddit
Being able to have largely nationalized companies doing this is another advantage China has, since the idea is anathema to American business culture.
a5ehren@reddit
The argument is that the bans turn it into a 5-year project instead of a 20-year one.
SmokingPuffin@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025
It was already a 5-year project. As in, it's literally a key pillar of the recent 5 Year Plan, decided in 2021.
Lightening84@reddit
5-year project to make the most advanced processors in the world? Nice. I wonder why China has this magical development capability that the likes of AMD, Intel, et.al don't have.
basil_elton@reddit
They have this "magical development capability" - to use your own words - because they don't have to play by the rules set by the USA.
And they are competent in the technical department too. The largest electric car company of the USA whose CEO is a fucking man-child can't build a 4-door car to lap the Nurburgring-Nordschlife in under 7 minutes after all these years. A Chinese smartphone company built their first electric car that can do it - and they did it with a development time of 4 years.
Only fools think that China can't do the things Intel or AMD does because the US controlling the supply chain of critical components for manufacturing is somehow different from the trade monopolies European joint-stock companies had 300 years ago.
Lightening84@reddit
It's called educated laborers. You don't magically train fresh employees to run massive technology driven corporations out of nowhere. If that type of talent was possible, AMD wouldn't be dumping billions into stock buybacks... they would just be hiring this imaginary labor pool that can create better chips than Nvidia and better manufacturing processes than TSMC.
Use your brain and not your bot programming.
basil_elton@reddit
The paragraph of mine you quoted talks about how European countries had built trade monopolies in commodities like cotton or opium by allowing trading companies to have their own military during the colonial era.
The USA thinks that its neo-colonial influence over global institutions to impose restrictions on countries acquiring stuff it doesn't want them to - through things like patents or controlling neoliberal institutions like the WTO or World Bank - can never be challenged.
I wasn't talking about labour, but since you asked, China's middle class is larger than the total population of the USA. They have no shortage of skilled labour.
Lightening84@reddit
I don't think you're understanding what educated labor is. You keep referring to skilled, for some reason.
Skilled labor can manufacture things. Educated (specialized) labor requires someone with the knowledge of a particular technology. You don't hire a bunch of middle class housewives to engineer the world's most specialized products in the world. That's not "skilled" labor. That is highly specialized educated labor. You especially do not do that, from scratch, in 5-10 years.
TSMC and Western Countries have taken 30-50 years to get to this level of detail and advancement. You're claimin that it takes 5 years to get there from scratch. That is incredibly short sided and wrong.
bluegum69@reddit
I cant wait for China to make an affordable gaming GPU for games to compete with NVidias price gouging and monopoly.
Strazdas1@reddit
People sacrificing freedom and security just so they could game cheaper. Maybe we deserve this.
bluegum69@reddit
My freedom is safe in Chinas hands living in Australia
pdp10@reddit
Moore Threads MTT S80
Justhe3guy@reddit
Buddy that’s not the reason China is doing this, they don’t give a crap about home entertainment lol…
TK3600@reddit
Largest EV company is BYD.
puffz0r@reddit
https://cset.georgetown.edu/article/the-global-distribution-of-stem-graduates-which-countries-lead-the-way/
Lol, also guess what nationality a lot of these "AMD, Intel, et.al" employees are?
a5ehren@reddit
I'm talking about supply chain more than chips. They can steal a chip design pretty easily, but making it with a domestic supply chain is the project.
Federal_Patience2422@reddit
You do realise that all the big chip manufacturers have been manufacturing in china for decades?
Lightening84@reddit
which ones, and where specifically? Top of the line process nodes for datacenter processors and AI training GPUs?
Lightening84@reddit
Even still, a supply chain of chip development is as technologically advanced as the chip itself.
5-year project to make the supply chain to produce the most advanced processors in the world? Nice. I wonder why China has this magical development capability that the likes of Global Foundries, Texas Instruments, ~~AMD, ~~ Intel, et.al don't have.
pendelhaven@reddit
5 is too optimistic, i think 10 is a minimum for something of this scale, probably even longer for areas that required years of prior investments in material and fundamental sciences.
HappyThoughtsandNuke@reddit
that's a stupid position as it assumes China wouldn't develop or steal the tech / ip in that time frame anyway. 20 years.. pfft. China's come to within striking distance of US dominance within the last 10-15 alone.. That's been their goal since day 1, assuming otherwise is folly.
Valuable_Associate54@reddit
china's goals have nothing to do with the u.s., don't flatter yourself. china only uses the us and other countries as a barometer. their goal is to return to the historical norm for their country.
dparks1234@reddit
The modern USA has far more power and global influence than the Chinese empires of old. You’d have to have an extremely Asiancentric historical view to think otherwise
Alive_Worth_2032@reddit
China still faces the wall which is no domestic EUV fabrication. The they they build a commercially viable light source, they are were the west was almost 10 years ago. With DUV they can push to 5nm or so, especially for high margin products like AI.
Jensen is not afraid of Chinese competition catching up. It is all about his margins in there here and now. If Jensen wasn't fabricating his $20k a pop chips on a by now several year old node. Then Nvidia would be even further ahead than they already are from just architecture and software.
But Jensen doesn't like having to actually compete. He wants to be the only game in town and sell "old shit" at extortionist prices. Imagine if he had to pay 2x per wafer with a bit worse yields. He might have to buy one less leather jacket.
skycake10@reddit
I think that's true in most of the world where the next 2 quarters matter much more than 3 years from now, but I don't think it applies in China. They're the one country with both the means to make these advances and the structure/incentives to do it before they're completely forced to.
WhoTheHeckKnowsWhy@reddit
i think he meant that sanctions made a passive 'one day' project of China, leading edge chipmaking; into a make or break fire under their arse imperative. And well look and SMIC.
skycake10@reddit
I understand that and I'm disagreeing. I don't think the sanctions meaningfully accelerated their timelines because I think they were always aggressive.
a5ehren@reddit
I think the sanctions dramatically accelerated their plans for making EUV equipment domestically.
skycake10@reddit
Well the article is about chips, not the equipment. If the US had sanctioned the equipment but not the actual chips it's possible China would have been less incentivized to push as hard (though I don't think so).
dern_the_hermit@reddit
There's some big "it's not the fall that kills ya, it's the sudden stop at the bottom" energy to that retort. It's not wrong, but it is weird to gloss over the intrinsic link there.
TanJeeSchuan@reddit
I think it did. Back then it was just top-down support. Now, it also has capital support by many cooperations. State and capital investment can greatly accelerate progress
ehxy@reddit
No it just hamstrung them for a bit. It will be an interesting race that is for certain
oursland@reddit
Had Chinese firms been able to purchase EUV ASML equipment, they would not likely have kickstarted a government and investor sponsorship of many research projects as the RoI would be too low. These projects have developed new technologies for enhancing DUV, but also alternative approaches to EUV that may prove more reliable than ASML's tech.
That would put China in the drivers seat of the most valuable tech.
narwi@reddit
But it turned out it is more like 7 year project and generates a lot of ill will in the meanwhile.
SmokingPuffin@reddit
Semiconductor self-sufficiency was one of the goals of the 14th 5 year plan (drafted 2021). "Made in China 2025" has explicit and fairly high targets for amount of domestically produced semiconductors in Chinese goods.
They were always going to try hard for semiconductor development, regardless of whatever happened with Nvidia. Jensen is just salty because he is losing billions of dollars.
Enaluri@reddit
Nah, before the first trade war there were a lot of Chinese industry leaders arguing against the need for indigenous designs because they believed the competitive edge of China is its capability in system integration and efficient large scale manufacturing. The first trade war completely silenced those voices. Now even Xiaomi (used to be not considered as a hardcore tech company) did its own 3nm chip tapeout…
dankhorse25@reddit
... Using TSMC
No_Sheepherder_1855@reddit
What’s the yield on that 3nm though? And who made the tools that fabbed those chips? Something I’ve been wondering is what kind of maintenance cycle does a DUV lithography machine go through? If ASML were barred from sending out parts or servicing them how far back would that send China?
zhaoz@reddit
What a self goal the trade wars have been. Jfc
TanJeeSchuan@reddit
Yeah, I remember a 2010 series where someone is debating about how China only "make use of" foreign technologies and should focus on innovation only to get shouted down by other participants.
aminorityofone@reddit
China has been rapidly developing in house chips for at least a decade now. They have been stealing tech and offering large sums of money to anybody willing to defect. This is about Chinese national security more than anything. Russia and India are also working on in house chips for the same reason, however those have much smaller capita to do it.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1883528/engineer-track-chinas-home-grown-computer-chip-rival 2015
https://siliconangle.com/2015/05/11/russian-made-elbrus-chips-pcs-and-servers-hit-the-market/ 2015
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/business/global/india-known-for-outsourcing-now-wants-to-make-its-own-chips.html 2013
PrivateScents@reddit
Imagine Thermaltake starts making GPUs.
"Yea, we have a fab building beside our air cooler manufacturing building."
Zestyclose-Big7719@reddit
Thermalright literally knocked the prices of air coolers and aios down by at least a half...
PovertyTax@reddit
Their prices are fucking insane in general. 3 TL-M12 fans with wireless connection, great rgb and inaudible operation at roughly <30% for 25$. Absolutely great deals.
Cedar-and-Mist@reddit
Thermalright is Taiwanese. If you were looking for a chinese company, it would be Deepcool.
logosuwu@reddit
I thought thermalright was basically bought out by their old Chinese factory?
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Or Jiushark.
AccomplishedLeek1329@reddit
No, but mihoyo does have a private fusion tokamak reactor.
Imagine your mobile game printing enough money to invest in fusion energy tech lmao
Swaggerlilyjohnson@reddit
Thermalright: Yeah we decided to launch a new gpu.
"Really what is it like?" It's basically 10% slower than a 5090 we were thinking about selling it for 800
"800 WTF"
"Ok fine 600 but we will have to drop the vram to 64gb then"
":0"
I wish we lived in a world where gpus were as competitive as coolers.
fallsdarkness@reddit
"The OC++ Ultra Edition is just the base model & also the best value on the market."
goodnames679@reddit
“It overclocks to 7GHz while staying at 60c. We don’t have any idea how that works, it just kind of happened one day and we rolled with it.”
MegumiHoshizora@reddit
I think you mean Thermalright not Thermaltake
PrivateScents@reddit
Haha yes! Edited!
Wartz@reddit
Saw that one coming a mile away.
WhoTheHeckKnowsWhy@reddit
yeah that's the thing people hate to acknowledge, innovation loves a vacuum in the market. Sanctions work on small backwaters with simple economies, but the second you do it to the largest countries on earth with established and very diverse economies and even industries; you lost the plot.
China, USA, India, Russia, the EU and even Brazil are just not entities you can sanction as a senior partner long term without just screwing over your own business operations therein long term.
OnurCetinkaya@reddit
Israel and US didn't sell drones to Turkey in early 2000s, now Turkey export %65 of armed drones in the global market, second one is the China with 26% percent and then US with 8%.
Strazdas1@reddit
The drones they export are low quality trash though. We can see the effective comparisons in Ukraine, live.
ComatoseSnake@reddit
? They've been very effective in Ukraine. Azerbaijan also used them against Armenia and won handily
Strazdas1@reddit
They were marginally effective in Ukraine, but not as important as artillery or armour. Just because there are many drone videos on social media does not mean it represents their actual effectiveness. Zelenski himself said drones were not the main factor in battle.
Azerbaijan used them very effectively but thats mostly because Armenians have not expected them at all and had no countermeasures. Also Azerbaijan had significant traditional hardware advantage to begin with.
ComatoseSnake@reddit
So they're not exactly low quality trash.
Forgot to add, just this month Pakistan used them after India attacked them. Came out on top against a country 8x larger than them.
NaBrO-Barium@reddit
The same thing happened with nuclear tech. It’s almost like any developed nation with an educated populace can replicate any other country’s tech with enough effort and perseverance. It looks like things haven’t changed and people are still short sighted enough to think something developed in America couldn’t be done elsewhere because ‘Muruca
127-0-0-1_1@reddit
Nuclear tech seems quite a lot harder. There's still many powerful and wealthy nations that do not have it, but desire it. One of the terms of the proposed Saudi-Israeli normalization deal was that the US would transfer nuclear reactor tech to the Saudi government
That implies that a) the Saudis, even with their wealth and connections, can't develop nuclear reactors, let alone nuclear weapons, on their own b) it's something they desire enough to bargain with some as monumental as normalized relations with Israel.
kronpas@reddit
Nuclear tech is relatively easy. The difficulty comes from big boys who dont want another country to have its own nukes for obvious reasons.
TenshiBR@reddit
yeap, we used to study it at high school lol
the problems start to arise when you need to refine things and the delivery system... and the implications
ComatoseSnake@reddit
It's more about political considerations. Most countries could have nuclear if they wanted.
chmilz@reddit
The Saudis don't have anything other than oil money. They bring in outsiders with actual knowledge for everything.
MisterSheikh@reddit
Western exceptionalism basically.
DerpSenpai@reddit
The Russian sanctions would 100% work if China joined in.
Middle income countries can't compete here. China is very different as they already had history and experience in this stuff
Valuable_Associate54@reddit
india and russia are highly debatable.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
India is rapidly pulling itself out of poverty. India is where China was in the 90s.
In another decade we’re going to see crazy competition from India just like we did with China.
dparks1234@reddit
India has too many cultural and sectarian issues to copy the Chinese state-capitalist model.
acc_agg@reddit
So did China in the 90s. Nothing some genocides won't fix.
To reddit admins, I'm not saying it's good your bosses killed Muslims by the truck full, I'm just saying that they did.
127-0-0-1_1@reddit
Did it? One thing China has always had through the millennia is that the states that have been there are like 95% Han. IIRC the last major genocide in the region was when the Qing dynasty genocided the Dzungars, but that was a while ago.
acc_agg@reddit
Thats some very nice cppp ethno communist propaganda you have there.
127-0-0-1_1@reddit
What major ethnic or national changes occurred between 1990 and 2025 in mainland china, then?
Strazdas1@reddit
The ongoing ethnic cleansing of Yughurs?
127-0-0-1_1@reddit
That's no doubt occurring, but it's not a very large percentage of the population. It's not comparable to India, which existed as a mix of Muslim and Hindu and Sihk principalities and kingdoms until independence.
Either way, I think you'd be hard pressed to say that the genocide of the Ughurs is a major reason for the stability of the CCP from the 90s to the 2020s?
Strazdas1@reddit
China solved the stability issues before the 90s i would say.
acc_agg@reddit
The CCP did not come to power in 1990.
127-0-0-1_1@reddit
You said
So the CCP had cultural and sectarian issues that were "fixed" with genocide in the 90s? What were they?
Strazdas1@reddit
The last major genocide happened when they invaded Tibet.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
Why do you think Modi is committing genocide?
He’s gunna reign the country in no matter how many he kills or jails.
sicklyslick@reddit
India was ahead of China in the 90s. You're basically saying India has regressed for the last 30 years.
straightdge@reddit
China prioritises science, education to almost extreme level. In India govt spends research fund on finding medical benefits of cow dung. Major election debates are about Hindu Muslim, love jihad, caste , reservation. Not one MP is there without serious criminal cases. Modi is literally Adani’s salesman. India learns the worst qualities from west whereas China has a focus on future like a hawk. Don’t have to do anything else, just compare both countries during the day of Gaokao vs JEE.
magnus91@reddit
India has a bigger economy than the UK, and more people than the US, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand combined. Yeah, its never going to do what China has accomplished but its also one of a handful of nations to have satellite launching capabilities.
DerpSenpai@reddit
If the US made a rule for Nvidia to sell their latest generation -1 would have fixed this issue.
GlossyCylinder@reddit
You would be surprised how many people and redditors legitimately convinced and deluded themselves that China somehow can't innovate and break the sanction.
Aggrokid@reddit
It's also delusional to think they can catch up to TSMC and ASML. They can innovate just enough for chip self-sufficiency in case of balkanization or war.
GlossyCylinder@reddit
No reason to think China won't catch up to TSMC ASML with its resources and manpower. If Huawei, SMIC, Sicarrier, SMEE and others are committed to their semiconductor goals. Especially with the government backing and and sanctions helping them. Its just a question of "when".
Aggrokid@reddit
Government backing does not guarantee success. Government initiatives do fail, even China's. People are somehow viewing China with some magical aura where success is an inevitability just because they are... plucky and committed?
If we snap back to reality. Export controls still hurt. SiCarrier is unproven. SMIC is struggling with 7nm enough that Chinese AI vendors are talking to Samsung.
BearstromWanderer@reddit
It was about slowing China down to buy time to ramp up security for Taiwan and to maintain American lead leadership in the adjacent sectors. Anyone who thought otherwise did not understand the markets and world politics. Huang just wants to sell his top preforming products to a hungry market in China.
More-Ad-4503@reddit
I'm Taiwanese and live in Taiwan. China does not want to invade Taiwan. They say so because of legacy FACE reasons. The equivalent of them reversing course is like the US openly stating (factually) that all US presidents are war criminals. That shit ain't going to happen.
Southern_Change9193@reddit
I don't think it slows China down, but actually makes China run faster.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
If this action is in China's best interest, they would've just implemented import restrictions on themselves.
It may help accelerate domestic chip design and manufacturing (at a huge cost to the government), but it certainly slows down and hurts them in fields that they intend to use those dGPUs for.
asdfzzz2@reddit
Do not underestimate the addiction of "we could just buy it". Being forcefully drawn out of it makes wonders. Trying to change it from inside goes roughly as well as fighting global warming.
JRBrick@reddit
Jensen wants to sell into China to keep their market share. Once they lose the Chinese market to competitive AI ecosystems, it'll be lost to Nvidia forever.
dankhorse25@reddit
And if the Chinese are actually better than Nvidia then Nvidia might become uncompetitive in much of the world markets.
sicklyslick@reddit
China has AI and tech export ban. So if China pulls ahead, the CCP is probably not gonna allow those chips sold overseas. They'll do what we did to them.
autumn-morning-2085@reddit
Unlikely, the bigger fish like the US will ban their import ("national security" like Huawei) but China won't ban exports.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Or later on, have a new leading edge node vendor competitor in the market.
AccomplishedLeek1329@reddit
The perils of racism-based policy making
ch1llboy@reddit
The 3 year lead was never worth the loss of collaborating. How long before China leads? The bridge is burned.
Tiny-Breadfruit4455@reddit
The thing is.. GPUs really aren't that complex. Its just thousands of very simple processesing units in parallel. Obviously Nvidia has optimized the design to the highest level, but it not hard to get say 30% less performance per area which is easily worth it to ensure domestic supply and economic independence. And that performance gap will only shrink with time.
azn_dude1@reddit
I think you're ignoring all of the decades of software that go on top of it, which is the real reason behind Nvidia's success.
Mandus_Therion@reddit
they have deepseek which already knows the entire stack like the back of their hand 🤷♂️
Strazdas1@reddit
Deepseek that can only count to 10 in roman numerals?
azn_dude1@reddit
What? Deepseek was trained on Nvidia chips using Nvidia software. That's like saying if I drive a car, I know how the engine works.
Mandus_Therion@reddit
have you even read any publications related to their releases?
have you even looked at any of the open source solutions they developed in house?
they made their own optimization in ptx and made custom cuda kernels.
you know nothing
azn_dude1@reddit
Custom CUDA kernels... so writing CUDA? They optimized some things in PTX, but that's a far cry from claiming they "know the entire stack". Going back to a car analogy: just because you optimized a fuel injector, doesn't mean you know how to design an engine.
doscomputer@reddit
CUDA hasn't mattered for at least 5 years now, modern GPGPU compilers are all plenty good enough
Strazdas1@reddit
CUDA matters literally today and will matter for at least a decade in the future.
Tiny-Breadfruit4455@reddit
A lot of that is inertia though. People already know Nvidia so why bother learning something else. Well, the US government gave everyone (and especially China) a reason.
techraito@reddit
But you're only looking at Nvidia as a hardware and gaming company. They also have pioneered graphics as a whole for developers and even animators. Modern GPU frameworks as a whole is what it is today because of Nvidia.
ghenriks@reddit
If it was only CUDA maybe
But Nvidia has invested significant resources into providing highly optimized libraries do to most things you want to do on their hardware
It will take a 5 to 10 years for competitors like Intel or AMD to match that and the same for China
azn_dude1@reddit
It's not mainly inertia. There's a lot more to their software platform than just the user facing parts. I mean you can see how much drivers can affect performance in gaming, there's a lot more of that in AI.
Exist50@reddit
There are a lot of global companies trying to undermine that moat, because they don't want to pad Nvidia's margins just for software. Remains to be seen to what degree that's successful, but this is one area where it's not just China vs Nvidia.
xternocleidomastoide@reddit
"GPUs really aren't that complex."
Peak #ShitRedditSays right there...
Tiny-Breadfruit4455@reddit
Just because you don't understand the subject doesn't mean nobody does.
xternocleidomastoide@reddit
odd thing to say to someone who actually worked on designing GPUs.
doscomputer@reddit
sure you did
xternocleidomastoide@reddit
Wow, here comes the brain trust. Bro. LOL
ycnz@reddit
AMD and Intel have been getting crushed in the GPU market for well north of a decade, but go on...
NorthernerWuwu@reddit
It's happened a million times before and will a million times again.
Positive-Bonus5303@reddit
everyone did. That wasn't the backfiring anyways.
The backfiring was the inability to withhold state of the art products making it impossible for the US to reasonably pull ahead. That was/is a one time only opportunity. It's still there, but i don't see how they could cut china off the supply.
aminorityofone@reddit
This is just Nvidia not wanting competition.
Liroku@reddit
Didn't even need AI to figure this one out.
stumu415@reddit
Xiaomi just announced they are investing US$ 7 billion in chip development. On top of that they have launched their own 3 nm chip named XRING 01. Similar Huawei have built their own chip using open source. Both companies have stated this is due to the situation with the US which forced them to accelerate the chip development program. And this will be only the start.
defenestrate_urself@reddit
In a recent interview, Xiaomi's CEO also said the company decided to pivot to EV's the moment he saw Huawei become blacklisted.
They had considered it before but the sanctioning of Huawei crystalised the understanding that they needed to diversify, they couldn't rely on selling phones and be exposed to the threat of US sanctions.
grannyte@reddit
Damn who could have seen this comming
genericusername248@reddit
Good. The more competition the better.
dparks1234@reddit
You’re telling me the company making money hand over fist by selling advanced chips to China is upset that the government is limiting their ability to do that?
DerpSenpai@reddit
The issue is not the money, it's that the US is creating a Nvidia competitor in China (Huawei)
Sopel97@reddit
that's not what's being said
dparks1234@reddit
That’s exactly what the article says.
“A.I. researchers are still doing A.I. research in China,” Mr. Huang said on Wednesday. “If they don’t have enough Nvidia, they will use their own,” he said. Mr. Huang has vowed that Nvidia will do everything it can to keep selling A.I. chips in China. The day after the U.S. government opened an investigation into whether Nvidia’s previous sales to China had violated its rules, Mr. Huang met with top economic and trade officials in Beijing.
Nvidia doesn’t care about the geopolitical interests of its country. They just want to make as much money as possible with as little competition as possible. Banning sales is bad for sales.
Huang is basically saying “whatever, China’s coming for you anyway, please let us make easy money while we wait for that to happen.”
Sopel97@reddit
you even made citations, and you still don't understand
JuanElMinero@reddit
You are legally allowed to share your own viewpoint with the other party. It's pretty much how a discussion works.
Strazdas1@reddit
You are not legally allowed to share your own viewpoint in some countries.
Sopel97@reddit
Why would I start a discussion with someone who can't read
Veastli@reddit
While that's not what Jensen said, what Jensen said is not the truth.
The truth is that Nvidia wants to sell to China, and Nvidia doesn't care about the politics, defense issues, or other national concerns.
The other truth is that China is still 15 years behind the west in chip fabrication.
TLDR - Jensen is lying.
dparks1234@reddit
Yeah I’d say it requires some reading between the lines. Even then the real meaning is fairly obvious
Vb_33@reddit
These trade wars are a big problem for Nvidias investors, it's only natural for them to try to influence the narrative in a way that benefits them.
Perfect_Cost_8847@reddit
Niccolado@reddit
I think this is a very good thing. Maybe finally there wil be some real competition. 4000 dollar for a 5090 is just insane.
terente81@reddit
Well up your game Nvidia, and not with DLSS.. give us RAW power, or may them Chinese manufacturers eat your dinner, it's only fair.
iBoMbY@reddit
China has more resources, they have more scientists and engineers, they have a more consistent leadership, and a clear vision. And now they also have the necessity.
Thanks to the incentive from the US, China will surpass NVidia and TSMC in the end - the only question is, when exactly.
terente81@reddit
And us, consumers, win; why the soreness?
Strazdas1@reddit
Because you, consumers, do not win from this.
terente81@reddit
How come? Competition brings prices down, let China bring some competition. If China offers 5090 levels of performance for 50% price, wanna see how fast Nvidia drops it's prices?
SJGucky@reddit
Chinas politics. If china surpass Nvidia and AMD, will you willingly buy a red trojan?
skycake10@reddit
Is a Chinese GPU with some sort of CCP backdoor any more likely than Intel, Nvidia, or AMD chips having CIA backdoors? We already accept that this is a possibility and I don't see why China makes a meaningful difference there other than xenophobia.
bluegum69@reddit
I would rather China made that has no power in my country (Australia) with a back door, than I do an American made with a back door that shares intel with my country (5 eyes)
Strazdas1@reddit
wow, can you imagine someone still thinks China has no power in Australia, a country they basically colonized already.
bluegum69@reddit
Australians loves China our biggest trading partner
skycake10@reddit
Exactly, as an American I care less if China has a backdoor on my electronic device than if the CIA/NSA do.
terente81@reddit
I'm in Europe, we don't mind as much.. our houses are full of red trojans already lol
Strazdas1@reddit
Theres a joke here in Europe. We have watermelons. Pretending to be green on the outside, deep red inside.
Altrough i doubt you actually are european. No european can be this ignorant about russia.
ChampionshipSalt1358@reddit
I'd prefer it to a blue trojan at this point considering where the blue guys are heading.
MiloIsTheBest@reddit
Sign me up for a Huawei GPU man
All glory to Chairman Xi
a5ehren@reddit
Huawei isn’t going to put any gaming hardware in their chips, you will never see a difference.
neverpost4@reddit
ASML.
iBoMbY@reddit
Do you really think China will never build EUV-lithography tools, or whatever will be the next-gen? They are working on it right now, and they will succeed eventually.
neverpost4@reddit
That is my point, not just Nvidia, TSMC, add ASML to the list
4514919@reddit
Do they? There is basically zero transparency about what is going on, we are getting told only what they want to be known and when someone speaks up they disappear for a couple of months.
Always this rhetoric as if Nvidia, TSMC, are just going to stop doing anything and only China will keep advancing.
iBoMbY@reddit
Nobody said anyone will stop, but the thing is, if you have more of everything, you probably will end up being faster/better in the end.
hackenclaw@reddit
They already slaying on basic consumer appliance.
I was looking for a Refrigerator today, The brand called Hisense is always $200-$300 cheaper while the built quality seems better and they also offer longer warranty to back-it-up if you concern they have "quality issue". It almost no brainer to buy theirs, other Japanese & Korean brands has no competition.
It just like EV cars, they also slays the competition. It is just a matter of time they make it in Semiconductor too.
All these sanction just giving them reason to push Chip R&D harder.
gburdell@reddit
You really can’t judge build quality by what you see at a store. My American made washer and fridge are from the 90s. My American made dryer is from the 60s. I’ve had to replace 2 minor parts in the past decade, which were both doable by me with parts purchases from Sears and Youtube videos.
By contrast, the only Chinese-made “durable” good I own is an Ego lawnmower and they are pure e-waste. Replaced under warranty once after 3 years, then it went bad a second time after 3 years, which I tracked back to a faulty safety interlock, so now I have a functional lawnmower with a defeated safety interlock
Sopel97@reddit
your appliances from 60s/90s did not withstand the test of time because they are american, they did that because back then things were not built to fail after a few years
gburdell@reddit
A lot of the spare parts exist because the American manufacturers are essentially using the same part today as they did decades ago. Even if your assertion about new stuff from any country being junk is true, the American ones are significantly more repairable. Same thing with German stuff
Wait_for_BM@reddit
The most important part I look for is the GPU driver support. There are performance tweaks/bug fixes in drivers and frequent GPU driver updates aren't cheap.
The support for Chinese GPU would be prioritized for their local games as their own market is larger. Games in the west might not be popular or even be allowed (for political reasons) into China.
Chinese products aren't know for aftersales service.
thoughtcriminaaaal@reddit
You assessment is pretty accurate to how the MTT S80 turned out. Over 2 years in and it's in the Arc launch day driver ballpark.
I search on youtube and sort by upload every few months to check in on how it's doing, and the most recent video by some Polish guy (who obviously tests Gothic on the thing) pretty much has the same conclusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYh2ea-nUls
ghenriks@reddit
This isn’t about games or consumer cards
This is about the high end stuff doing AI and HPC stuff
Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit
The whole reason why Nvidia is on top (for now) is their superiority in software and compatibility
GhostsinGlass@reddit
What did people expect?
I mean reasonable people.
jerpear@reddit
Probably that the inferior Chinese peasant brain wouldn't be able to compete in engineering and science with the superior American one.
Exist50@reddit
Which really just tells you that the people making these decisions never once consulted anyone in the industry. Forget about China itself for a second. US CS/CE/EE grad programs and top silicon valley companies are filled with Chinese nationals. Anyone who've even vaguely familiar with the industry could have told them "Yeah, the Chinese know everything we do. Of course they'll be able to do it themselves." Instead you have the "security analysts" (which in practice, are usually the bottom of their class in foreign relations, if that) pretending that there's some kind of unassailable moat, and killing the goose that lays the golden egg.
AOChalky@reddit
Not just CS/EE, basically any science or engineering major, except the ones where Chinese nationals are basically banned (nuclear or aerospace related for example).
dparks1234@reddit
It’s the chickens coming home to roost.
“Wait a second, you mean the country we invested in and trained for 40 years is starting to assert itself against us? Who could have seen that coming!”
Turns out there were side effects to Reaganomics, the service economy and outsourcing.
Strazdas1@reddit
Completely sinking the largest economy in the world and replacing it by dystopian dictatorship? No problem just sell me a GPU for 300 dollars.
very-inteligent@reddit
40% of top AI researchers in the US are Chinese
Exist50@reddit
The real number is probably significantly higher thanks to the number of Chinese nationals who also went to US universities for undergrad.
But yeah, this isn't some kind of secret. The stats are available publicly, never mind what info the government has access to. The fact they've still pursued this path indicates that no one in government even bothered to care.
acc_agg@reddit
The average us university is staffed by Eastern European professors, Chinese Posto docs and Indian undergrads.
So we put sanctions on Russia, China and India and made it harder for them to get visas. I wonder what will happen?
Strazdas1@reddit
I think reasonable people expected that people would put security of their countries and way of life as more important than cheap GPUs. But as we know reasonable people are rare.
FragrantGas9@reddit
Nvidia deserves another powerful competitor in the AI space.
Curl_of_the_Burl_@reddit
I can't wait for the unconstrained AI battle that surely won't have massive negative consequences for the world. We should energize it harder.
Strazdas1@reddit
When two ASI fights eachother we can rewrite the greek myths of seeing gods warring.
ea_man@reddit
Nvidia deserves the agency to sell their product to everyone while their are on top, because things changes fast.
SovietMacguyver@reddit
It deserves nothing.
Hopperj6@reddit
its like nvidia wants to sell their chips to China lol
d00mt0mb@reddit
Oh really, I thought cutting off their supply would make them complacent. What did you think would happen?
cabbeer@reddit
The west needs to wake up when it comes to Chinese manufacturing. You can't say they make cheap crap at the same time they're producing all the worlds highest end electronics. Patrick McGee wrote a great book recently on how companies have invested billions in training and developing the chinese market to a point where it's so far ahead (not to mention factors such as lax environmental regulation and labour laws), it's impossible to catch up.. I don't know what the answer is, but it's not poking a sleeping giant.
dparks1234@reddit
It’s basically late stage capitalism and the free market killing itself to save a buck. Companies would literally sign off on force technology transfers and joint Chinese enterprises because it was piss easy money. The short sightedness is mind boggling.
I blame Francis Fukuyama for spreading the idea that getting rich suddenly morphs you into a liberal democracy that plays by the rules.
Kyanche@reddit
Not to mention the attitude of "why waste money and time cultivating our own talent when we can just import it for less money!"
AND THE COMPLETE TOTAL LACK OF IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATION IN THE US.
Like some 25-40% of the US thinks educational spending is a scam and a waste of money. I think the number might be closer to 60-70% when you look at how many people shit on college on reddit. Especially in tech subs.
puffz0r@reddit
All of this because wealthy robber barons and capitalists were buttmad that they had to pay taxes for once to pay for FDR's programs to save capitalism after the great depression, and they've been plotting to return us to the gilded age ever since. I can't imagine anyone actually looking up to billionaires and laissez faire types when you look inside their aspirations for the country and it's a return to child labor, effective slavery, and the exploitation of the working class before any labor reforms were won by trade unionists.
BilboBaggSkin@reddit
It’s only a matter of time when they start cutting out the middleman.
ten-oh-four@reddit
Can China make cheap 5090 clones? I'm not above buying one of those :P
MumrikDK@reddit
What other possible outcome could there ever have been?
I don't get it. China isn't Iran.
Zenith251@reddit
I hardly see how the #1 AI Accelerator chip salesman's opinion on laws restricting sales of AI Accelerator chips can be impartial, unbiased, or trustworthy.
Nefalex5464@reddit
We are at the end of something started decades ago. We were arrogant and greedy and they used it against us perfectly.
We got him into the WTO even though they didn't always play by the rules. They thought if they raised the standard of living and developed a middle class in China they would demand democracy. That's what happened in the west so of course it would happen there. Except our histories are completely different.
I thought if they could get our companies into China that we could manipulate and control them. Chinese saw that coming and refused to play that game. Instead they used our greed against us to get what they wanted and then deny us what we wanted.
We would sell the Chinese anything they wanted. Free market capitalism. If you wanted to enter the Chinese market and sell your products to a huge untapped population they required that you partner with a Chinese company. We said "but we don't put those restrictions on you" and they replied "yes that is your way. It is not our way"
What did they think was going to happen? I think it's obvious. The thought of all the money they could make was to great. They agreed to everything because they couldn't turn their backs and walk away from all that potential profit.
That allowed China to go from a country that copied other people's products into a country that made their own products. Companies showed them how to do it. When they learned everything they needed they would get rid of the foreign company.
Foreign company might make a lot of money during that short period of time but at what price. They helped the Chinese transform into something they can't compete with.
The furthest they looked ahead was next quarter's profits or maybe next year's.
We did this to ourselves. The arrogance and the greed. We were country without equal and they threw it all away.
Soon we're going to pay a high price. Our leaders are still greedy and still arrogant and haven't learned anything. They only care about enriching themselves.
joe1134206@reddit
Good, maybe I'll get something for a decent price in the gaming market someday
jedrider@reddit
Sanctions have backfired Bigly. Tariffs are doing the same.
LaserGuy626@reddit
With the threat of AI at a military and economic level, it doesn't matter if they're going to try and catch up, the limitations still set them back significantly.
Has China caught up on anything significantly technologically advanced?
None of their aircraft or space craft is even close. Arguably, this technology is just as difficult.
It'll be at least a decade before China catches up, and that's extremely generous.
ea_man@reddit
> Has China caught up on anything significantly technologically advanced?
Space, nuclear, green...
Also they are on top on research and fundamentals like math and physics.
LaserGuy626@reddit
Lol.
China isn't even close in space tech. Where's their Mars rovers and landing rockets.
Solar panels? We invented them, they just make it cheap.
Exist50@reddit
Batteries, at minimum.
ApfelRotkohl@reddit
Add thorium molten salt reactor technology to the list too :).
Exist50@reddit
We'll see. Certainly seem to have done more research but waiting to see something production grade come out before putting much stock in it.
ghenriks@reddit
China is putting people into orbit
China landed a science mission on the far side of the moon - something no one else has done
The US is gutting NASA’s budget to pay for tax cuts for billionaires
Who do you think has a better future in space?
Cubanitto@reddit
Truthfully I hope there's a Chinese graphic card manufacturer working on a new high and card.
Tanzious02@reddit
I've said this before. Constraints allow capitalism and innovation to thrive.
PlanetNeptune29@reddit
Corporation begs government to work in its favor so it can make more money? Oh geez who could've seen that coming?
Limited_Distractions@reddit
Nothing motivates China like being told they can't or shouldn't do something, Soviet abandonment of China's nuclear program spurred them into an absolutely ridiculous feat
zdy132@reddit
US rejected China from joining the ISS, so right now we have two space stations orbiting the earth, one of them owned and operated entirely by China.
justrichie@reddit
Not surprising. They were able to make stuff like Deepseek using weaker GPUs
greiton@reddit
I think the real question is why did the American Monopoly stop developing?
x33hacks@reddit
So What, You are too lazy to compete ?
Crusty_Magic@reddit
Poor Nvidia. They should be able to crank margins without competition materializing.
specter491@reddit
This was gonna happen no matter what. But at least with the chip controls we may have delayed China several months. Several months in the AI space is massive. When some AI companies let people go, they keep paying them for 6 months and forbid them from joining another AI company during that time. All so that their competitors can't get ahead because even 6 months is a huge advantage
CaptainDouchington@reddit
Stoke fear to try and recover from your shit tactics.
Sink baby. Sink.
DesperateAdvantage76@reddit
Good, competition, specifically with ASML, is sorely needed.
FuturePastNow@reddit
What I'm hearing here is Nvidia complaining that they weren't allowed to develop a monopoly in China.
modularpeak2552@reddit
Even if this wasn’t true he would still have all the incentive in the world to say this.
Jordan_Jackson@reddit
Of course it would. Yeah, they might not have the same level of chips right away but neither Intel or AMD was built overnight either. And it is not like China is at a shortage of very smart and well-educated people either.
Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit
I hope so,maybe it will produce actual competition
ea_man@reddit
Who could have imagined that?
That patience, long plans, caring as giving money and support to your country tech dev gives better results than just shooting executive orders that gimp their capacity to be competitive on the market?
What I don't get is why NVIDIA has to be subject to that: they do produce in Taiwan / China and I guess that most of their talents come form China: they should pack a bag and move anywhere else so they can produce and compete all over the world like they deserve.
deefop@reddit
Government policy nearly always causes the inverse result of whatever it is trying to achieve. What really gets confusing is when you realize that means it may be intentional.
sascharobi@reddit
Not really a surprise, right?
HilLiedTroopsDied@reddit
nvidia is already supply constrained. So this would just mean more demand on a fixed supply = nvidia raise prices even higher. surprise pikachu face
No_Opportunity_8965@reddit
Coming from the ones not allowed to sell. What a joke.
Limit_Cycle8765@reddit
If you did not think China was developing their own chips at a extremely fast pace, you dont know the Chinese. They were already rapidly trying to do this.
FormalBread526@reddit
LMAO china has never 'developed' anything. Everything China has made has been a cheap copy of the west, due to the overall dull population and dictatorship government that doesn't allow for any creative freedom or critical thinking (that gets you in prison in China LMAO)
CrzyJek@reddit
This is the dumbest thing ever.
China wasn't going to stop accelerating their AI development. Hell, Deepseek was done on H800's right?
gomurifle@reddit
Makes sense from a business competition point of view. It would have probably been better to trickle-feed them from the teat of that american A.I tech and keep them dependent and always a few steps behind... But when you wean them, now they will get dependent and learn to do it on their own and become possibly become even better.
shugthedug3@reddit
The Americans thinking the Chinese are going to be meaningfully slowed down by ineffective export restrictions is the real story here.
This is China's century, you can either kick and scweam in response to that - and get nothing out of it - or just go with it, it's fine.