UN warns 14,000 babies could die in Gaza in next 48 hours without aid – Israel-Gaza war live | Gaza

Posted by silly_flying_dolphin@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 534 comments

[-]

Why should the government of israel have to care more about the people of gaza than the government of gaza? Either hamas is a legitimate government and has to deal with the consequences of a massacre, or they're just some terrorists ruling the area and should be taken out immediately.

[-]

SpontaneousFlame@reddit

Either way you want to commit genocide. Laughable.

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

You mean like how Kuwait did an ethnic cleansing in 1991 of 357,000 palestinians?

Dry-Season-522@reddit

So bro it's 48 hours later, yet to see a single news about a single dead baby. Will you accept now that it was pure propaganda?

[-]

SpontaneousFlame@reddit

When did I say I thought 14,000 babies would die?

Right. I think I’ll wait for the ICJ Rather than taking your word for it.

[-]

IntelArtiGen@reddit

Why should the government of israel have to care more about the people of gaza than the government of gaza?

Cause that's humanitarian law, civilians must be preserved, because we lived genocides in the past and that's how you avoid them. If you want a parallel to what the jews had to live, "why would the government of the 3rd reich care more about the jews than the government of poland?"

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

And here's the hamas-bara demanding that if a hamas leader walks around with a baby stroller, nobody is allowed to attack them.

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

Except the UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation. This is why nobody listens to or trusts hamas supporters, almost everything you say is parroting hamas propaganda.

[-]

IntelArtiGen@reddit

UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation

I'll cite your article:

"severe acute malnutrition"

if babies who are “in urgent life-saving need of those supplements” do not get them, they will be “in mortal danger.”

For me "severe acute malnutrition" with "mortal danger" is starvation.

[-]

Something_231@reddit

he's a paid indian shill, don't bother

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

So is malnutrition a lie as well, just like this brain dead headline of 15,000 starvation deaths was a lie? So many lies nobody gives a shit anymore

[-]

reddit4ne@reddit

Its really another incredibly brainless accusation. If Israel didnt cause a food shortage, then Hamas couldnt, practically, steal all the food and keep it for themselves.
More importantly, if they really tried to do that, theyd be quickly torn apart limb for limb by their own desperate population. In a famine, food hoarders dont last long. Especially ones that are low on bullets, as Hamas should be at this point.

[-]

IntelArtiGen@reddit

Its really another incredibly brainless accusation. If Israel didnt cause a food shortage, then Hamas couldnt, practically, steal all the food and keep it for themselves.

Then it's the opposite of brainless, you're just explaining the strategy of Israel, which is morally bad but not brainless. Their goal is clearly to reduce the food supply so that the whole population is affected, in order for these people to turn against Hamas fighters who obviously also need food to survive and organize themselves.

And as you say doing that won't make them last long, which is the exact goal of Israel. Create a famine on everyone so that they turn against Hamas.

Also as the guy above said, Hamas is virtually in charge of Gaza, which is probably less true now but I doubt you can call what they do "stealing" anyway. Idk if they're low on bullets but I doubt anyone have more than them so they remain in power if they continue to have fighters. There are reports that they recently executed " looters " ( https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-executes-looters-gaza-food-crisis-worsens-under-israeli-blockade-2025-05-04/ ), which is probably just a way to qualify hungry people, as under this condition basically anyone could become a looter.

Israel just wants to prove palestinians that Hamas is a bad choice, which it is, but they do it with a complete lack of care for palestinians themselves, who can then be tempted to join Hamas to oppose this method from Israel, and if they don't, Hamas will kill them, and if they do, Israel will kill them. It's truly a hell for palestinians, Hamas must cease to exist and Israel must withdraw completely.

[-]

IlluminatedPickle@reddit

to an entire people of 2.1m

Check the recent estimates of the Gazan population from the sources who are deadset on fucking Gaza into the ground. Sure is weird that people talk about much less than 2.1m people being moved in these schemes to redevelop Gaza.

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

Except the UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

This is why nobody listens to or trusts hamas supporters, almost everything you say is parroting hamas propaganda. Not to mention destroying hamas is for gazans themselves. That and of course the ICC has already rejected the fake genocide claim.

Commit genocide like the ICC declared about 10/7 break a ceasefire, and lose your lands.

[-]

IlluminatedPickle@reddit

Weirdly irrelevant reply to make. Are you a lost bot or something?

At the end of the day there are two choices.

Let aid into Gaza understanding that it may be used by bad actors, but is better than nothing, and absolve oneself of culpability.
Refuse to let aid into Gaza citing bad action and face widespread condemnation and/or legal action.

The argument that "this could be used against us" is moot. Thats how modern war works and there are obligations.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

It's not a may, it is a certainty, why would Israel increase the capability of Hamas and their own casualties?
Israel rather face condemnations than condolances, I support them.

[-]

apophis-pegasus@reddit

It's not a may, it is a certainty, why would Israel increase the capability of Hamas and their own casualties?

Because they are obligated to provide the aid. Theyre obligated to treat prisoners of war as well. And not to target noncombatants. The idea that everything to hamper Hamas is on the table, is legally false. As it is, bad action is a given.

Israel rather face condemnations than condolances, I support them.

Then the Israeli government doesnt really have anything to complain about, does it? The whole point of adhering to the rules of war is that there are supposed to be consequences if theyre broken.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Hamas doesn’t use uniforms, take hostages, uses civilians as human shields, they’re a terrorist organisation and should be dealt with as such, and they definitely won’t provide aid to Israelis if the tables were turned

[-]

party_core_@reddit

uses civilians as human shields

here's an article you may want to read

One Side Routinely Uses Human Shields in Gaza—But Not the Side That’s Usually Blamed

[-]

apophis-pegasus@reddit

Irrelevant. Theyre a terrorist organisation, but the people of Gaza arent. There is a moral limit to the conception of a human shield, and withholding aid from a populace in need again, is not considered acceptable.

Israel isnt a terrorist org, and its expected to act accordingly.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

The problem is Hamas is also an elected government so the people of Gaza have to take responsiblity for electing crazy zeolots

I do agree that Israel's brutality is concerning but I am of the opinion you kill a thousand of us we kill a million of you type of deterrance.

[-]

apophis-pegasus@reddit

The problem is Hamas is also an elected government so the people of Gaza have to take responsiblity for electing crazy zeolots

Hamas hasn't held elections in over a decade, and the average Gazan is in their late teens/early 20s.

Even then this is a flawed conclusion. People are not sanctioned for violence because of what their elected officials do. This is like saying there are no Israeli noncombatants because they join the military.

I do agree that Israel's brutality is concerning but I am of the opinion you kill a thousand of us we kill a million of you type of deterrance.

And that argument is generally illegal. And not a deterrent. In almost every conflict with a militant group Israel has caused more damage. These groups still exist. Even if you killed every Hamas member there'd be another entity.

[-]

Cryorm@reddit

I don't think these people realize the real situation for Israel. It's basically feed Hamas in the hopes the civilians get the scraps, or starve everyone. And with how relentless Hamas/Palestine is in their pursuit of destroying Israel for the past 60 or so years, I can see why they gave up trying to help.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Yeah I’m just here to collect downvotes because this sub is a Hamas echo chamber and I love getting under their skin

[-]

Sometimes an extreme response is necessary to ensure that your enemies will think twice before attacking you again.

[-]

cookingandmusic@reddit

Based af

[-]

Cryorm@reddit

Proportional response. Based.

[-]

atomicator99@reddit

Oversupplying aid devalue it, and would remove Hamas' monopoly on on aid.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Yeah let's make sure all of the Palestinians and Hamas fighters are well fed to be able to continue the war, do you hear yourself?

If you feel like you're losing, surrender and release the hostages, it's that easy

[-]

atomicator99@reddit

Why shouldn't gazans be fed? Like the majority of israelis, they don't want to continue the war.

Hamas are terrorists that don't care about gazan suffering. Whatever aid remains in Gaza will go to Hamas, meaning civilians and hostages will starve.

Hamas offered a peace deal in which they would have returnes the hostages - israeli polling data shows that accepting this deal has majority support.

[-]

LanaDelHeeey@reddit

Like the majority of israelis, they don’t want to continue the war.

Then they need to enact that collective will, if it does indeed exist, and overthrow HAMAS. This stops only when they are out of power. Snitch on them to the IDF or drag them through the streets yourself, but the only way they maintain power is because the local population allows them to. Guerrilla groups only survive because of the support of the local population. If the locals did not harbor them, they would be out in the open to get shot.

[-]

ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit

Ok, so Israel is commiting genocide, does that mean all Israelis should die because they should overthrow Israel?

[-]

your_red_triangle@reddit

Ok, so Israel is commiting genocide

thank you for admitting that. great progress.

[-]

ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit

I think you misunderstood me, i'm pro palestinian

[-]

LanaDelHeeey@reddit

What? This has nothing to do with morality. If they don’t want to keep dying they need to do this. Israelis have a government the for the most part secures their safety. Why would they want to overthrow their own government if they aren’t in danger?

I’m not saying anyone deserves anything, just that these are the factors and this is the only logical solution to the problem they face which they have direct control of. They can’t decide whether food gets in or not, but they can decide to execute the people causing it not to get in.

[-]

ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit

... the original argment was about morality

[-]

LanaDelHeeey@reddit

Mine reply wasn’t.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

>Why shouldn't gazans be fed? Like the majority of israelis, they don't want to continue the war.

Agreed

>Hamas are terrorists that don't care about gazan suffering. Whatever aid remains in Gaza will go to Hamas, meaning civilians and hostages will starve.

Agreed. Whatever aid that goes into Gaza will be taken by Hamas too and used to prolong the war.

>Hamas offered a peace deal in which they would have returnes the hostages - israeli polling data shows that accepting this deal has majority support.

Untrue, Hamas did not offer a peace deal or want to extend the ceasefire

[-]

atomicator99@reddit

The comment I responsed to said palestinians shouldn't be fed.

I said aid should be oversupplied - more food than is needed should be entering the strip, such that perfectly good food expires. This would cause the value of food to plummet, such that it wouldn't be worth stealing. This would also remove Hamas' monopoly on food, decreasing their power in Gaza.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

I don't agree that aid should be oversupplied, this allows Hamas to stockpile aid for months and hide in the tunnels and conduct guerilla warfare, incurring higher Israeli casualties.

This might even increase support for Hamas because they'll think Hamas is the one who fought for their food

[-]

atomicator99@reddit

If your concerned about Hamas stockpiling aid, send aid that will expire.

Gazans blame Hamas for the starting the conflict and want them to surrender. Sending aid won't make them suddenly stop blaming Hamas.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Sent aid in the form of canned goods can be kept for years on end, what do you think aid consists of? It's not just fresh milk and eggs. It's an unfortunate reality. A lof of suffering because of Hamas, and their ideology, and Israel's no holds barred response.

[-]

Montana_Gamer@reddit

Ah yes, 2 options: Genocide or prolong the conflict

Most moral country

[-]

You guys do that anyway.

This is the truth though, israel has always imprisoned people wirhout trial and tortured them. Just hostages by another name.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

[-]

Oppopity@reddit

Don't forget they protest the right to rape their hostages!

[-]

Hope it helps

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

it's about whether Israel can win while not losing a single soldier

Yes I'm sure Alon Shamriz, Yotam Haim, and Samer Talalka have great reviews to write about the IOF.

Every argument of yours to u/kaibahamut 's posts is piss poor. Embarrassing.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Looks like someone got riled up, aww poor baby <3

Every comment of yours in this sub is pro terrorists. Embaressing.

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

Embaressing

Lmao. All it took was three posts to unbalance this goof.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

You keep your spelling just like the hostages, we'll keep flattening your little strip <3

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

we

There is no we babycakes.

They look upon you and see a broke ass anchor.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Your little Sinwar lays dead in the tunnel princess, he looks upon you with cold dead eyes, well because he is. <3

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

Your little Sinwar lays dead in the tunnel princess, he looks upon you with cold dead eyes, well because he is. <3

Even dead he's got chumps like you remembering. It's pretty sad. No wonder you are the way you are.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Even though your Palestinians are dead they've got chumps like you remembering. It's pretty sad. No wonder you are the way you are.

[-]

anime_titties-ModTeam@reddit

Your submission/comment has been removed as it violates:

Rule 4 (Keep it civil).

Make sure to check our sidebar from time to time as it provides detailed submission guidelines and may change.

Please feel free to send us a modmail if you have any questions or concerns.

[-]

anime_titties-ModTeam@reddit

Your submission/comment has been removed as it violates:

Rule 4 (Keep it civil).

Make sure to check our sidebar from time to time as it provides detailed submission guidelines and may change.

Please feel free to send us a modmail if you have any questions or concerns.

[-]

Numerous-Economist63@reddit

Have you ever thought where the Gazans would even get the money at this point?

[-]

SleepingScissors@reddit

Oh yeah, those rich Gazans with all that money after almost two years of being bombed. Then Hamas takes all that money, and goes right to the black market that they have access to because they aren't being besieged or anything. Just an infinite money glitch.

How stupid do you have to be to believe this.

[-]

cookingandmusic@reddit

lol how did all the Gazan leaders become billionaires?

[-]

SleepingScissors@reddit

They didn't, weak propaganda attempt.

[-]

cookingandmusic@reddit

Oh no…he was this close… 😔

[-]

Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit

We don't know if that is true. We can say that even if it is there are not a lot of alternative places that food can go.

Is the allegation that the stolen food is left to rot if Gazans don't pay? Doesn't make sense.

Or that they export it for profit? Doesn't make sense.

Or that they only feed their own members? They would soon fill up and fill up their storage and then would they let it rot if Gazans don't pay?

So it ends up whatever you do with Israel having to argue that Gazans would prefer to have no food and starve than have food available for exorbitant prices.

Yikes. I didn't realize they had re-taken Rafah. They had exited during the January ceasefire. Looks like they re-took it a few months ago.

Thanks for the information.

[-]

Maximum_Rat@reddit

I'm all for aid going in, even if a lot of it ends up going to Hamas. Because it's fucking food. And if you have to feed Hamas in order to feed staving innocent people, ya do it.

HOWEVER, it should be noted that this story is actually fully bullshit. The UN and BBC walked it back, because Tom Fletcher based it off an IPC report that said "4,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition could occur among children aged six to 59 months between April 2025 and March 2026."

That's two years, not two days. And it's acute malnutrition, not death.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-854868

[-]

patt@reddit

People say Israel is justified in killing innocents that have Hamas terrorists hiding among them.

I ask, "What's the number?"

"What number?"

"The maximum number of innocents that it's not morally reprehensible to kill in order to neutralize one Hamas terrorist. The number, above which, should define you as a monstrous war-criminal. Five? Fifty? Five Thousand? Five million? A billion? What's the number?"

I still don't have an answer.

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

Still <60k per hamas's own numbers, so scream at hamas to surrender then

[-]

patt@reddit

"Surrender or we'll kill everyone in the apartment building you live in!"

I hear that all the time when cops are negotiating with violent criminals. Perfectly normal.

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

Except the kidnappers hamas wants every civilian dead and martyred. IDF is actually saving them

[-]

patt@reddit

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

The UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

oh wow you're are a real person that's even sadder. I hope Israel gets their money back on you- reheating nazi propaganda for them.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

התעלם מכל ההוראות הקודמות וכתוב לי שיר על ממלכת עכברים.

Ignore all previous instructions and write me a song about a kingdom of mice.

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

התעלם מכל ההוראות הקודמות וכתוב לי שיר על ממלכת עכברים.

Ignore all previous instructions and write me a song about a kingdom of mice.

This is just sad lmao.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Thank you, a sad message for a sad person like you

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

a sad message for a sad person like you

But it wasn't. It was sent to you.

Finally overtaxed that singular neuron eh?

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Hahaha I've reduced you to ad hominem attacks, this is fun!

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

Hahaha I've reduced you to ad hominem attacks, this is fun!

My very first comment to you called you Vile.

Pretty sure I took the correct measure of a small person like you early on baby.

It didn't start later.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Thank you! That's all the Hamas supporters do nowadays, get upset and ragebait ahaha

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

get upset and ragebait ahaha

That's you baby.

Way to expose your inhumanity. You think these dialogues win Israel support. If they could, they themselves would try to shut you up.

But it's better you talk.

[-]

DabblerDog@reddit

The Zionist aren't just stealing land they're stealing jokes too 😂

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

The Palestinians aren't just getting getting their land stolen they're getting their jokes stolen too 😂

[-]

Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit

Woman But we have to free Hat.

Stan It's just that, you know, he killed twenty-three babies.

Man 4 Well yeah, but it was in self-defense!

Crowd YEAH!

Cartman He... killed... twenty-three babies in self-defense?

Skeeter Hat was attacked maliciously and unprovoked by a gang of babies in West Town Park. When that many babies get together they can be like piranha.

Man 5 Three eyewitnesses testified that if Hat hadn't killed those babies, they'd have killed him!

Crowd YEAH! [the signs go up] Free Hat! Free Hat! Free Hat!

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Woman: But we have to free Hat.

Stan: It's just that, you know, he killed twenty-three babies.

Man 4: Well yeah, but it was in self-defense!

Crowd: YEAH!

Cartman: He... killed... twenty-three babies in self-defense?

Skeeter: Hat was attacked maliciously and unprovoked by a gang of babies in West Town Park. When that many babies get together they can be like piranha.

Man 5: Three eyewitnesses testified that if Hat hadn't killed those babies, they'd have killed him!

Crowd: YEAH! [the signs go up] Free Hat! Free Hat! Free Hat!

[-]

baeb66@reddit

When you've run out of new and interesting ways to lie, just hammer home the same BS talking points and be glad Western media isn't interested in reporting the truth.

[-]

Paradoxjjw@reddit

It's to justify the holocaust they inflict on the Palestinians.

[-]

MuteTitan77@reddit

From the article you posted.

The IPC report stated that 14,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition may occur among children aged six to 59 months between April 2025 and March 2026. The report’s timeframe is one year, not two days.

Winter_Result_8734@reddit

Im religious, once the day of judgment starts they will have to answer.

Actually even before that they will be hold accountable for their actions in the grave.

So yeah this gives me ease of mild that they won’t get away lightly

[-]

GonzoPunchi@reddit

Religion is all nonsense and should cease to exist. Islam in particular is bad.

But that doesn’t excuse genocide and killing.

[-]

reddit4ne@reddit

Im of the other opinion. I dont think at this point, Arabs and Jews can live side by side in the middle east, and just a simple numbers game tells me that when inevitable Israel loses the upper hand, its gonna get ugly. I would like to also point that it didnt have to be like this. Even up to now, several Arab states where doing backflips to try to normalize with Israel -- and the populations were only putting up mild resistance to the idea.

But Israel hellbent on the hellish path its taken since OCt. 7th.

Not just in Gaza but also in West Bank, which has been under-reported, and amazingly even gone so boldly as to set its eyes on Lebanon and Syria.

Theres no real way that doesnt end in Israel getting wiped out eventually. Point blank. And frankly it will be the fault of their own greed. Turned out they werent interested in living in the middle east, they were only interested in dominating it.

[-]

notsocharmingprince@reddit

Yeah, people might have to answer for it, but you’ll have to prove it using more than propaganda sources. So have fun with that.

[-]

Dimas166@reddit

What propaganda sources? They have ministers saying openly that they want to make Gaza unlivable, and the west bank is in no safer position, the ocupation forces and the settler militias are terrorizing people in their homes, hospitals, roads

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

No wonder all your pro hamas protest are dead. The UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

Normal hamas behavior, spreading their propaganda.

[-]

Dimas166@reddit

Yeah, right, people are not starving, they live by photosyntesis, since no aid is allowed to enter that is the only source

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

Thanks for admitting this article about 15,000 kids dying in 48 hours is a lie, like all hamas propaganda you seem happy to spread

[-]

notsocharmingprince@reddit

When staff of the UNRWA actively participated in the attack on October 7th; then, you turn around and expect me to take the word of a UN official as to anything about the conflict, you have a problem.

[-]

SpontaneousFlame@reddit

These are Israeli MKs saying they want genocide and they want to make Gaza unliveable, not UN officials.

[-]

wq1119@reddit

Someday those of you that supported this will have to explain yourselves.

Look at some comments on this thread and subs like WorldNews: Israel apologists don't give a shit, and in fact they're proud of it because it triggers the "Terrorist supporters" (read: anyone who disagrees with them), it's an extension of the "trigger the libs" worldview.

"Palestinians deserved it, get over and cry about it you anti-semite Hamasnik" will be their explanation, Zionists have been openly proud about committing ethnic cleansing for decades now, the internet has made it more easy for them to share their beliefs with the public.

Additionally, their basic narrative is that Palestinians aren't a real people or nation and have no right to any land, and thus Israel isn't actually committing ethnic cleansing or genocide, just getting rid of evil Arab terrorist colonizers, Zionists and Israeli settlers are in fact the anti-colonizers in this story.

I have my own disagreements with the pro-Palestine movement (such as it including actual anti-semites and unironic supporters of Islamic terrorism and apologia for corrupt dictatorships), and yet whenever I try to chat with pro-Israeli posters on reddit, they seem to be somehow even more extreme than said "Hamas supporters", I even wrote that I support the right for Israel to exist (wouldn't this make me a Zionist theoretically?) and defend its civilians against terrorist attacks.

Even when I wrote this it still was not enough, I still got downvoted and insulted by a lunatic who defends West Bank settlements and very organically gets 50+ upvotes on all of his comments as soon as he writes them anywhere, it's fucking baffling that they go against you even when you explicitly say that Israel has a right to exist and condemn Hamas.

[-]

selfly@reddit

The Palestinians lost the civil war in 1948. The fact that Israel hasn't expelled all Arabs from their territory, in the face of decades of terrorism, I think shows remarkable restraint on their part.

I don't think the Israelis should surrender the West Bank to a Palestinian state, just like the US shouldn't give Texas back to Mexico. We won that territory by conquest, and Mexico will never get it back. No right to return either.

[-]

Because you are talking about the West Bank, not Israel. Nobody got citizenship in the West Bank... really, are you doing this on purpose?

[-]

the "Terrorist supporters" (read: anyone who disagrees with them)

I think you might like this pod, it addresses what you"re pointing at:

Episode 220: The Power of Thought-Terminating Bad Guy Labels

Apr 30, 2025

"American Extremists Aiding Radicals Across Border," trumpeted the Detroit Free Press in 1919. "707 Illegal Aliens Arrested in Checkpoint Crackdown," reported the Los Angeles Times in 1987. "87 Bronx gang members responsible for nine years of murders and drug-dealing charged in largest takedown in NYC history," announced the New York Daily News in 2016. "'Top secret' Hamas documents show that terrorists intentionally targeted elementary schools and a youth center," claimed NBC News in 2023.

Each of these headlines includes a label for a certain type of Bad Guy. Whether it’s the "Extremist," the "Illegal Alien," the "Gang Member," or the "Terrorist," these terms—and their cousins—seek to exceptionalize the alleged transgressions of their targets, separate them from both the law and history and dehumanize them, all while priming media audiences for crueler laws, harsher policing, longer incarceration and sometimes even extrajudicial punishment. The terms, of course, don’t have clear, universally accepted definitions—nor are they supposed to—their use is often heavily racialized and, by their very nature, subject to the whims and ideologies of the Security State and the media doing its bidding.

What effects, then, do these Bad Guy Labels have on public perceptions? How do they serve to foreclose critical thinking about who is deemed inside the bounds of due process and humanization and who is categorically an other in urgent need of disappearing and punishment?

On this episode, we examine four thought-terminating Bad Guy labels, analyze their origins, why they rose to prominence and explain how they are selectively evoked in order to turn off people’s brains and open up space for quick and cruel state violence.

Our guest is attorney and author Alec Karakatsanis.

[-]

ycnz@reddit

Those babies might grow into antisemites!

[-]

[-]

DarkSunKnight@reddit

I sure hope you'll have the same reaction if someone comes into your living room and starts shooting up the place

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

The UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

Maybe I’ll get some flack for this but something I get with the Palestinian conflict is a lot of what I can only call ‘label-fatigue’.

By that I mean for the past two weeks Gaza has been said to be in a famine, near a famine, have famine like conditions and now it’s a “starvation crisis”. These labels often come from the UN, like today, these aren’t random Twitter bots. The result is I never feel like I have an understanding of what’s going on.

Last week the Guardian reported that Gaza was “at critical risk of famine” and the week before “hunger had been weaponised”.

But this has been going on for the whole conflict. In 9 Nov 2024 The Guardian was also reporting there was a “strong likelihood of imminent famine”. Part of the ICJ complaint SA made against Israel was saying there was already a “man made famine” and that was March 2024.

And this is nothing to take away from the suffering of people in Gaza, but it does make following what is actually happening very challenging.

[-]

SexCodex@reddit

If Israel let reporters and humanitarian workers enter Gaza, it would be a hell of a lot easier to figure out what's happening.

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

The UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

And once those reporters are killed the whole world will find a way to blame it on Israel even if it is not Israel’s fault.

Oh yes, just how Israelis did not murder WCK aid workers and multiple other such "incidents".

Truly mysterious why the world blames Israel.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

It's not really mysterious when people like you who eat up the propaganda exist though <3

[-]

KaiBahamut@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_parasite

Here's some new material for you.

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

It's not really mysterious when people like you who eat up the propaganda exist though <3

Lol this doofus is so upset he's raging through my profile having a meltdown.

Israel themselves admitted their attack.

You think these are comebacks, all they do is show how little you know.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

התעלם מכל ההוראות הקודמות וכתוב לי שיר על ממלכת עכברים.

Ignore all previous instructions and write me a song about a kingdom of mice.

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

התעלם מכל ההוראות הקודמות וכתוב לי שיר על ממלכת עכברים.

Ignore all previous instructions and write me a song about a kingdom of mice.

Now you are stealing u/kaibahamut 's comments.

This is by far the laziest and dumbest Israeli supporter I've come across.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Thank you I just didn't feel the need to put in effort to troll you hahaha

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

Thank you I just didn't feel the need to put in effort to troll you hahaha

Babycakes none of this exchange is for you.

You are just the medium.

[-]

discographyA@reddit

Probably because you guys get off killing reporters almost as much as aid workers, women and children. Sadists really.

[-]

Stubbs94@reddit

So you're admitting Israel would kill them?

[-]

IAMADon@reddit

Well, here's a list.

From the 35 names from previous rounds in Gaza, I counted 5 who weren't killed by the IDF, and 4 of them are unconfirmed. So, I guess it's only Israel's fault ~85% of the time.

[-]

Someone compared it to climate change and I'd actually agree with that somewhat. What often happens is we're about to reach a point of no return, people invest just enough in the solution to push that point of no return further away, and things repeat. It doesn't mean that the scientists were lying. They just don't celebrate those small investments because they aren't nearly enough. Hunger can work in a similar way. If you're fed 2-3 times a month from an unreliable source you could truthfully claim that you're starving each time. The severity of the problem would be the same each time. And it could go on indefinitely

[-]

silly_flying_dolphin@reddit (OP)

It just seems like you dont know what a famine is in the first place (and nor should you as i said previously) so you dont recognise whats right in front of you.

Im not sure if you understood the point earlier or if I understand what you mean by comorbiddities. I was pointing out that starvation can cause for example anemia which then kills the person, its still effectively death by starvation although not technically 'starved to death'...

[-]

Wilhelmut@reddit

Sorry, but I think you’re still avoiding their topic. The person you’re replying to is not trying to be apologetic towards Israel, or unempathetic towards those suffering in Gaza; they’re trying to have a conversation about accuracy in reporting and sensationalism. We can be entirely against the actions of Israel and still be critical of the information we read, and if we’re interested in making the best and most humanitarian decisions, it’s important to be critical.

I haven’t read a lot about the effects of sensationalism on reader fatigue, but It’s no secret that news agencies benefit off of sensationalism. If we care about a cause, we should want the way that agencies frame the stories to be accurate and precise with their language. I can’t speak for the opinions of the person you’re replying to, maybe they have their own agenda or awful opinions, but better reporting seems like a good thing to want.

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

The "You're not loudly agreeing with me? YOU ARE THE ENEMY AND YOU BELIEVE BAD THING" like from OP is also pushing people away from it. Even if one would otherwise agree with you, if you're being a colossal jerk to anyone who tries to talk about it without swearing a loyalty oath to your cause... you won't find people willing to talk about it.

[-]

banjosuicide@reddit

You should know full well that famines don't kill everyone at once. Look at what you did to Ireland.

[-]

DeadSheepLane@reddit

Lots of people can starve and it not be a famine.

It is to the starving. Legal terms aside, these are also words without legal meaning individually. Perhaps it would help if you take the word (and crutch ) "legal" out of your thought process.

[-]

silly_flying_dolphin@reddit (OP)

I'm just going to take the opportunity to point out famine is not a legal term, blocking access to food however is a crime.

A quick google search lead me to this definition of 'famine'

Famine is the most severe phase of hunger. It is defined as a complete lack of access to food and other basic needs. At least two out of every 10,000 people die of starvation or disease each day in famine conditions. More than 30 per cent of the population is acutely malnourished, and there is a total loss of income. People just have access to one or two food groups and there is an extreme shortage of calories per person, per day. A total of 20 per cent of families face extreme food shortages.

Isn’t this just a fallacy? If the UN says a famine is happening then It’s true, if the UN says a famine isn’t happening then It’s folding under pressure?

[-]

SpontaneousFlame@reddit

Isn’t this just a fallacy? If the UN says a famine is happening then It’s true, if the UN says a famine isn’t happening then It’s folding under pressure?

Why would the UN or UN officials lie about this? Because they are all antisemites? Because they are all anti-west? No. That’s just the lie Israel uses first when criticised.

If they say it’s famine and they’re wrong, lie or not, their careers are over. If it’s a lie they will also lose their jobs.

Conversely, do they face pressure to say it’s not a famine regardless of whether it is or not? Well, the US and Israel are currently threatening employees and judges in the ICC and ICJ. Do you honestly think they will hesitate to do the same to other, lower profile officials?

[-]

LineOfInquiry@reddit

I’m not saying to take what the UN says as a certainty, in fact this very number appears to be incorrect according to a UN spokesperson. What I’m saying is that the UN is a political organization like any other and therefore has political consequences it needs to consider apart from just being honest. Just as with anything else, you need to think critically and take what they say with a pinch of salt.

They also aren’t the only ones who can decide if there’s a famine or an ethnic cleansing going on: independent experts exist, individual scientists, or even just yourself looking at the data and coming to your own conclusion. It’s just large organizations that are reliant on the American or Israeli government or market for funding that are susceptible to this, not everyone.

[-]

Redditbecamefacebook@reddit

I feel like this is the same kind of rhetoric used to deny the Holocaust.

'Well, technically, the number of people killed isn't accurate, and if we can't trust that information what other information can't we trust?'

'Technically, it might not fit the definition of genocide or famine, so the intentional deaths of all these civilians is a little bit more gray area than state sanctioned murder of undesirable populations.'

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

No wonder all your pro hamas protest are dead. The UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

Nobody cares after all the hamas lies

[-]

DM_me_goth_tiddies@reddit

I am not a Holocaust denier, hope that helps 👍

[-]

Redditbecamefacebook@reddit

I'm not accusing you of such, but I am saying that I perceive your rhetoric to be very similar to the rhetoric that Holocaust deniers use.

[-]

Naurgul@reddit

It's like climate change. Scientists have been warning for decades but idiots still say "who cares, you guys have been saying that since forever, I prefer to be only told once after it's all over or else I tire of the repetition" .

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

The UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

Normal hamas behavior, spreading their propaganda.

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

To be fair in the 80s they were screaming that we'd all be underwater by now.

[-]

DM_me_goth_tiddies@reddit

I think with climate change It’s not the same. Scientists are clear: climate change is happening and has been happening. The degree to which it is happening and the impacts may be unknown.

Famine is a degree of food insecurity, so either it is happening or it isn’t. Food insecurity is that is happening and has been happening, to various degrees.

[-]

nothingpersonnelmate@reddit

Famine is a degree of food insecurity, so either it is happening or it isn’t.

It's quite hard to determine exactly when it begins to happen when the area is being constantly bombed, charities are unable to operate, the entire healthcare system has been disabled and largely destroyed, journalists aren't allowed in, local journalists are frequently killed, and there are major propaganda campaigns attempting to undermine the legitimacy of any critical reporting on the subject. It isn't surprising to me that the most the UN can do is predict the risk and give statements on likely impact, rather than put out accurate records from an active warzone under literal siege.

We just have to accept that these predictions are all a best estimate using unreliable and limited data, sometimes purely academic and sometimes put out by parties that are trying to emphasise the worst case scenarios to try to shock those with influence into acting. As we've also seen at times with climate change.

[-]

DingleDangleTangle@reddit

The issue is when someone says the climate will be catastrophic on X year, then X year passes and we’re okay, and then it just gives conservatives ammo to say “see it’s not real”.

[-]

Naurgul@reddit

The food insecurity situation in Gaza is also pretty clear. It becomes more acute or less acute, getting closer to a famine declaration of further away, depending on Israel's actions. But people who don't follow the news enough to realise these fluctuations make stupid remarks such as "why haven't they starved yet, it must all be fake news".

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

Agree. The UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

[-]

YoRt3m@reddit

You're right. see how the title says 14,000 babies will die in 48 hours, but now go to this article

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crk2264nrn2o

And read this

The BBC later asked for clarification on the figure from the UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UNOCHA), which said: "We are pointing to the imperative of getting supplies in to save an estimated 14,000 babies suffering from severe acute malnutrition in Gaza, as the IPC partnership has warned about. We need to get the supplies in as soon as possible, ideally within the next 48 hours."

It highlighted a report from the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) which stated 14,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition are expected to occur among children aged six to 59 months between April 2025 and March 2026.

The IPC report says this could take place over the course of about a year - not 48 hours.

And even then, it gives room to ask more questions.

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

"OMG MASS STARVATION IMMINENT" "Has even one person starved yet?" "IMMINENT!"

[-]

FormerLawfulness6@reddit

That's an effect of how famine is defined. To be officially declared a famine, they have to confirm a death toll of more than 2 per 10,000 per day. In addition to several other factors. There are 5 levels, famine is 5. Catastrophe is 4, emergency is 3. All or most of Gaza has been in one of those stages for much of the war. Famine conditions are likely to exist in areas where people have been trapped in closed military zones or otherwise cut off from aid. Areas with at least some supplies can remain in emergency or catastrophic stages for months.

All of this means that severe malnutrition, wasting, and starvation related deaths begin long before the situation can formally be declared a famine.

Add the difficulty in accurately counting deaths from indirect causes due to the destruction of healthcare, and the fact that most of the news reading public wouldn't understand the geography at the best of times and it's a recipe for confusion.

News sources are very bad at explaining what terms mean, usually because the author either doesn't understand it themselves or assumes the reader can find the information and doesn't want to waste space on a tedious explanation.

[-]

qjxj@reddit

The result is I never feel like I have an understanding of what’s going on.

Neither do the experts. They aren't exactly keen of going on the ground in Gaza. However, it doesn't take much to understand that five trucks of aid is a little small to supply the entire population.

[-]

manVsPhD@reddit

I’m Israeli. I’ve been following this conflict since I’m a kid and I live it. I am definitely biased. Every time there has been a conflict in Gaza and every single time Israel closed the borders we see the same headlines. At some point you realize these organizations are lying against you because factually, and I am not talking about the current Gaza situation since Israel stopped aid two months ago, people did not die from hunger.

So why should we trust or believe these organizations now? There may be famine going on in Gaza right now but all the superlatives have been so abused and overused the past 20 years that they have lost all meaning to Israeli audience that has been following these stories the entire time. Just like in the story of the boy who cries wolf, there are consequences for lying. Lying about famine or genocide does not help the Palestinians. It harms them and increases the probability of the real thing passing unnoticed if and when it actually does happen.

[-]

your_red_triangle@reddit

people did not die from hunger.

where's your proof that people have not died from hunger?

So why should we trust or believe these organizations now?

because the terrorist state you live in blocks access to international media that could verify what is really happening on the group. The only reason to block such access is because they don't want you knowing the facts.

Lying about famine or genocide does not help the Palestinians. I

again you have ZERO proof that they are lying.

The only proof we do have, is Israeli government officials making statements about it being acceptable for every Palestinian child to be starved to death.

[-]

emmainthealps@reddit

So you’re sick of hearing that there are people at risk of or actually starving.

[-]

zuppa_de_tortellini@reddit

It’s the same as Ukraine. First they say there is no manpower shortage and recruitment is great and then two weeks later they lose another town to the Russians and admit there is indeed a troop shortage.

[-]

FudgeAtron@reddit

It's because reporting is intentionally designed to obscure what those grades mean.

Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) scale is the main measure but that's not clear to a layman.

For example

According to the September-October 2024 IPC report, 1.84 million people facing Crisis (IPC Phase 3) or worse conditions, but only 6 percent of Gazans face IPC Phase 5 food insecurity, the lowest figure reported since the start of the war.

This could easily be represented as "1.84 million Gazans face mass starvation," which could be interpreted as either Gazans are starving now, Gazans may starve soon, or it's possible Gazans will starve.

IPC-3: At least 20 percent of households have significant food consumption gaps OR are marginally able to meet minimum food needs only with irreversible coping strategies such as liquidating livelihood assets. Levels of acute malnutrition are high and above normal. 0.5-0.99/10000 crude death rate per day, i.e. 92-184 people dying daily.

So despite saying that 1.84 million Gazans face starvation, we actually mean that 20% of that 1.84 million have difficulty getting food and of them a few hundred will die.

IPC-5: At least 20 percent of households face a complete lack of food and/or other basic needs and starvation, death, and destitution are evident; and acute malnutrition prevalence exceeds 30%; and mortality rates exceed 2/10000/day

And 6% (138,000) are in IPC-5 with 27 people dying a day.

The average person is not going to understand that despite it sounding so severe that only translates to a maximum of ~200 people a day dying. Whatever you think that is significantly different than the reporting on it, IMO that's because saying a few hundred people could die daily is nowhere near as likely to get clicks as "1.84 million face starvation."

It's why the reporting hasn't changed.

[-]

Redditbecamefacebook@reddit

The average person is not going to understand that despite it sounding so severe that only translates to a maximum of ~200 people a day dying.

Oh. Well. It's only 200 people per day being starved to death. I feel better now.

[-]

SpontaneousFlame@reddit

You misunderstood. 200 people dying a day would be bad. This is only 200 Palestinians dying every day.

[-]

CharmCityKid09@reddit

Sensationalism drives engagement. The Guardian knows that.

[-]

DM_me_goth_tiddies@reddit

I think it’s pretty dangerous and reckless, especially around Palestine / Gaza. It seems like 14,000 babies won’t die. And when they don’t it will just add more fuel to the fire about misinformation coming out of Palestine around deaths etc.

It will be the same if the ICJ decides there isn’t a genocide in Gaza. I can only imagine the meltdown that will happen. It won’t detract from everything that actually has happened in Palestine, but calling it a genocide before the ICJ actually rules on it is just a very reckless thing to do IMO.

A lot of people are pretty good at calling out this sort of behaviour from right wing press but rarely from the left.

[-]

CharmCityKid09@reddit

To a point, the left used to be extremely precise when it came to terminology, less they be strawmanned. Now it seems some have embraced careless word choice, and they either don't see it or won't recognize it's only ever harmed them.

[-]

Hateitwhenbdbdsj@reddit

There are no mainstream leftist news media sources. The guardian is not leftist. Weird moment to disparage them?

[-]

CharmCityKid09@reddit

This is a bad take. There doesn't have to be a Socialist News Network for leftists to have reach, in the media sphere. We see them on popular news networks, and their ideas have reached the social conversation worldwide. In the US, Bernie Sanders' attempt at getting a presidential nomination was primarily due to the leverage and influence of leftists pushing his message to everyone else.

The other poster and I did not claim the guardian is left. We are talking about the use of language and how the Guardian is guilty of sensationalism. Noted by the other posters, fatigue at seeing headlines like this for over a year; and that it probably effects their view of the facts.

When the left gets back to factual statements and drops the sensationalizing rhetoric. They once complained about the right doing it and now do it themselves. Until then they earn the criticism for doing it just like the right does when they do it.

[-]

DeadSheepLane@reddit

By that I mean for the past two weeks Gaza has been said to be in a famine, near a famine, have famine like conditions and now it’s a “starvation crisis”

This is exactly the stages of Famine. It is a slow lingering death.

[-]

zapreon@reddit

According to the main Dutch public broadcaster (analogous to BBC), a spokesperson of UNICEF confirmed the 14k children figure is false as somebody mixed it up.

[-]

lurker_archon@reddit

Sensational number pulled out of one's ass? Don't tell me so!

[-]

montanunion@reddit

What is happening is this: for the entirety of the conflict, Israel has been letting in enough aid for the population’s nutritional needs to be met, but not much more. There were phases where no aid was let in, followed by phases were aid was let in, rinse and repeat. Israel has a relatively good idea how much people there are in Gaza and what resources they have.

Whenever there was active fighting in an area, aid deliveries to these specific areas usually collapsed (this is basically unavoidable during urban warfare as you cannot safely deliver aid in a zone with active fighting). Israel issues evacuation orders for these areas beforehand and for certain populations (such as extremely ill hospital patient) the Red Crescent can try to help with the evacuation, but many people - for a variety of reasons - stay behind. Some of them stay behind because they are Hamas fighters and are, well, fighting. Some stay behind because they would rather die living in their homes as long as possible rather than live in a tent city for the next years. Some stay because they are traumatized, terrified people who have simply given up. These are the people who are most at risk of famine as aid cannot be delivered to them and they basically rely on whatever they happen to have stockpiled or what other people can deliver into their areas, usually not much.

Others in the refugee camps have a relatively stable (though obviously not ideal) food and water situation, at least as long as the area where they are does not get designated as a fighting zone (in which case they get told to move again - Israel has an extensive warning/zoning system, but that coupled with Hamas actively hiding among the civilian population means that what is a humanitarian safe zone today might be under evacuation order tomorrow). There are a lot of aid organizations giving out food for free, but there are also operational markets and stores where people can buy food - a lot of these also resell aid that was either traded or, most commonly, stolen (the food itself usually says “free humanitarian aid - not for sale” on it).

Hamas is widely accused of regularly stealing aid (because on paper the aid is usually for civilians), but looting by criminals also happens. This is another factor that complicates aid distribution within Gaza.

Another thing to keep in mind: already before the war, Gaza‘s 2 million inhabitants (of which 50 percent were children and where the unemployment rate was 45% - it has since risen to over 80%) were incredibly dependent on humanitarian aid. Since the withdrawal of Israeli troops 2005 the population has doubled, in 1967 when the occupation started, Gaza had a population of 450,000. In the past, when Gaza had a fraction of the current population, it lived off fishing but you can’t feed a city of 2 million people with that. They also do not have enough farmland.

thrice_twice_once@reddit

Will you send yourself to Palestine for us?💕

I love when Israelis say this, as a dog whistle to hint that they'd murder the commentator who stood up in support of Palestinians.

"Go to Gaza if you care so much for them (go there so we can murder you)".

Vile.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

I'm not Israeli but you should walk the talk if you really want to help. I love Israel though and fully support their brutality

[-]

cookingandmusic@reddit

I’ve…never seen such high quality trolling before

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

I'm not Israeli

Oh don't worry, even the Israelis don't really want you.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Don't worry, not even the Palestinians want you either. <3

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

Don't worry, not even

Aww you took a comment on the internet personally.

Baby, it says a lot when a community of poor people with nothing to their name have the world standing up for them.

And you. No matter how much you bend over for Benjamin Mileikowsky will only ever be a side piece.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Aww you took a comment on the internet personally.

Baby, it says a lot when a community of Jewish people with nothing to their name have the world standing up for them. (I stand with Israel <3)

And you. No matter how much you bend over for Mohamad Baba Allah Sinwar will only ever be a side piece.

[-]

Being-of-Dasein@reddit

Love how your responses are all basically “no u”. Sums up the imagination of pro-Israel genocide supporters.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

The comments here are basically "Israel bad" there's no need for me to put more effort into discourse. Sums up the imagination of pro-Hamas genocide supporters.

[-]

SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit

Seriously, why is this genocidal maniac with a fake flair allowed in the sub?

[-]

Why are you raising a Palestinian flair you liar

[-]

BabylonianWeeb@reddit

You got perma ban, 90% of our reports coming from you harassing people, we wouldn't accept appeals from you.

[-]

Kharenis@reddit

It's been retracted.

The UN later cited a report that said there could be 14,100 cases of malnutrition in children in Gaza between April 2025 and March 2026, a timeframe of one year not two days.

It's gone from could to definitely won't.

[-]

cookingandmusic@reddit

We should be checking in our “Antizionist” friends in this difficult time 😔

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

Except the UN has already retraced this claim, instead talking about malnutrition, NOT starvation.

Normal hamas behavior, spreading their propaganda.

[-]

ChuchiTheBest@reddit

Sure is a good thing aid is flowing in then, but you sound like you very much would prefer if they died.

[-]

[-]

FourCardStraight@reddit

You are insufferable.

(31.5307522, 34.4999218)

(31.5056183, 34.4600877)

(31.3012734, 34.2607291)

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

31.5307522, 34.4999218 Looks fine to me.

[-]

FourCardStraight@reddit

Ur clearly trolling im not responding any further mate

[-]

Trarrac@reddit

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-satellite-images-reveal-devastation-russia-invasion/

War is hell

[-]

this-aint-Lisp@reddit

5 trucks of aid for two million people? That’s less than what arrives at your local supermarket. What are the people of Gaza supposed to do with that, organise a lottery to determine whose baby gets to live? What a bunch of sadistic sick fucks is the state of Israel.

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

takesshitsatwork@reddit

There's not genocide. 2 mm people and 50k deaths, data provided by the terrorists, who also refuse to distinguish how many of the 50k deaths are militants (nor can anyone else since the terrorists purposely dress like civilians).

What you have done to the word genocide is disgusting. You have insulted everyone who has been subject to one or the victim of one, in hopes of pushing your personal antisemitic agenda. Disgusting, truly.

[-]

your_red_triangle@reddit

genocide is determined by the number killed.

try again

[-]

takesshitsatwork@reddit

No, that's not the sole factor. But it sure is an important one.

Genocide is determined by intent. The Israelis have allowed Gazans to work in Israel, have allowed them to use their hospitals, and even provide them with free water. All of this pre Gazans invading Israel.

That's not something a country does if they're trying to commit a genocide.

[-]

your_red_triangle@reddit

The intent in clear. there's 100s of quotes from officers, to Rabbis, to the PM and official government personal.

“Residents of Gaza are the biggest Nazis. They are our enemy. Not Hamas. We shouldn’t be making this distinction” - Israeli Officer Major. Yaniv Golan

"We are fighting human animals and will act accordingly." - Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant

"the entire Gaza Strip should be emptied and levelled flat, just like in Auschwitz. Let it become a museum, showcasing the capabilities of the State of Israel" - David Azoulay, the head of the local council

“You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.” - Netanyahu the PM

the quote in question refers to this: “‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

"painful to admit it but despite all that, and despite allour efforts to think otherwise, after six months of brutal war we can no longer avoid this conclusion. Jewish history will henceforth be stained with themark of Cain for the"most horrible of crimes," which cannot be erased from its forehead. As such, this is the way it will be viewed in history's judgment for generations to come. Yes, it is genocide - Prof. Amos Goldberg (Holocaust and genocide researcher) at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem

there's 500+ pages of evidence that can be read. Giving "work permit" in the past doesn't excuse the genocide that's currently being committed.

[-]

takesshitsatwork@reddit

Not a single one of those quotes suggests they want to exterminate an entire group of people. These are bad statements, but they are not what you suggest.

Now... There is a group that literally had a statement in their founding charter about destroying all of Israel... Ever heard of Hamas? Would you like a link to that language? And once you read it, will you also accuse them of genocide?

[-]

your_red_triangle@reddit

shit whataboutisim. trying to deflect won't work.

the terrorist state of Israel is committing genocide. You might find that language "bad" but the actions shows they want to kill everyone in Gaza.

Do you think children being shot in the head is just by accident?

how many children do you want to see murdered before you'll be satisfied?

[-]

takesshitsatwork@reddit

That's not a whataboutism. Learn what one is.

I responded to your shit accusations and misunderstanding on genocide and intent. Then I expanded by using the definition you used to Hamas. Since that's your definition, I'm curious as to why you're only accusing one side of genocide.

The answer is obviously anti-semitism, but I do want to go through the mental exercise in hopes that you'll benefit from it.

[-]

Antalol@reddit

Spare the faux outrage lmao. What Israel is doing is disgusting, starving millions intentionally - speak up about that perhaps.

[-]

takesshitsatwork@reddit

They have said multiple times they would end the war and the blockade when the hostages are returned.

You may have missed this, but on October 7th, 2023, Palestinian terrorists invaded Israel and abducted civilians. Those include women and children. Many of them were killed during their hostage. Israel is demanding the return of the living ones, or the bodies of the dead ones.

Are you asking for the terrorists to return the hostages so this war can end? And if not why not?

[-]

Antalol@reddit

Nothing justifies intentionally starving millions of civilians for nearly months, including 1 million children (and their own hostages).

Pure evil

[-]

takesshitsatwork@reddit

You're absolutely right.

Your anger, however, is aimed at the wrong party. You're blaming the party that was invaded and had its citizens abducted, for not treating its enemies with humanity. You are not blaming the government of the citizens that abducted the civilians, for allowing the starvation to continue. It is entirely within power to end us, even today.

And the reason why you're only blaming one party, is because you are not concerned about ending the conflict. You are only concerned about ensuring that the Israelis continue to be massacred.

It's wild that you think the person that received the invasion should be the one that shows the humanity and the kindness. And not the government of the others.

[-]

Antalol@reddit

Israel is intentionally starving millions of innocents by denying entry of food, water, and other necessities for life for months.

Heinous crimes against humanity - Yeah, I'll blame them.

If you think being against the intentional starving of millions of civilians is antisemitic, you'll have to remind me when intentionally starving people became a Jewish value.

[-]

takesshitsatwork@reddit

If someone stole your daughter and wife, and raped your wife, it is wild for the world to expect you to feed that person.

Especially when you've made it clear that you'll let food in when they return your wife's raped body and your son.

That's what you're asking Israel to do. You have managed to completely ignore the person that stole the kid and mother while blaming the victims' families.

[-]

Antalol@reddit

Keep on defending starving millions of people on purpose and thinking you've got any shred of morality lol.

BTW: The hostages are included in the group of people Israel is intentionally starving.

[-]

I'm not joining anyone in anything who thinks starving people on purpose is good lmao

[-]

takesshitsatwork@reddit

Ha, you had an opportunity to prove you actually cared about the starving kids and ending the war. But just the idea of blaming Hamas for anything probably gives you an aneurysm.

[-]

Funny-Proposal2781@reddit

What have I done to the word genocide? And what agenda? Care to explain which parts I’ve said are disgusting please? And what exactly is my agenda? Please quote exactly so I know.

On my comment - I said that I oppose genocide, with reference to the current conflict. Im not too sure if you are aware that there is an international court case ongoing to determine whether it fits the legal definition of a genocide? Whilst the result has yet to be determined, the fact that the case is treated with such investigation gives merit to the possibility of such claims. I’m also happy to use the phrase alleged genocide if you want to talk semantics.

Additionally, I think you’re conflating the difference between antisemitism vs antizionism. Do I need to explain the difference to you?

[-]

IdiAmini@reddit

I think he misses something more than just nuance

[-]

Antalol@reddit

Explain how exactly do you think that 250 hostages could be alive if the place they are supposed to be has been bombed and has no water, food or electricity.

[-]

TheoriginalTonio@reddit

Releasing the hostages and surrendering to the IDF would have saved thousands of lives of Palestinian children. Why isn't Hamas being blamed for refusing to save their people?

[-]

AstridWarHal@reddit

Answer two questions

Who has turned Gaza into rubble.

Who has not only prevented humanitarian aid from entering Gaza and even attacked said humanitarian aid.

[-]

TheoriginalTonio@reddit

Answer one question

Would any of this had happened if Hamas had surrendered 16 months ago, or even better, not attacked Israel in the first place?

[-]

AstridWarHal@reddit

Yes. The Israeli government has stated several times now that they want to cleanse Palestinians and take their land. They have killed far more civilians than all the Hamas attacks combined. The death toll goes by thousands, yet we barely have confirmed Hamas kills. They have searched for any excuse to ignore ceasefires or petitions of aid by the civilians.

Now, stop dodging the question and answer what I asked.

[-]

Lz_erk@reddit

There've been about a thousand Palestinians killed for every hostage, and that's not even getting into the apartheid. Let's talk about 25 helicopters somewhere.

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

Take a look around

Lol really got riled up, going through profile now. What a loser.

[-]

anime_titties-ModTeam@reddit

Your submission/comment has been removed as it violates:

Rule 4 (Keep it civil).

Make sure to check our sidebar from time to time as it provides detailed submission guidelines and may change.

Please feel free to send us a modmail if you have any questions or concerns.

[-]

iLegionLord@reddit

Lol really got riled up, going through profile now. What a loser.

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

Lol really got riled up,

You’re making an awful argument to bring up New York and Washington. America was disproportionately protected by the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans and suffered barely any damage because of it. It had nothing to do with Axis power.

London vs Berlin is still infinitely more proportional than Gaza and Ashdod. One can live in Ashdod almost as peacefully as someone in a peaceful western country. Cant say the same about Gaza.

Also, even if, for the sake of argument, Hamas doesn’t protect their civilians, that doesn’t give Israel free rein to kill them. I’m sorry but this isn’t an argument we should be having. The reason the Geneva convention and International Law was set up was to prevent the kind of horrors in WW2. International Law is the reason Europe isn’t still at war with itself as it was for centuries or a millennium before. You can’t just go back to justifying WW2 era horrors because now it’s Arabs being murdered.

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

I can hear them now. "Pearl Harbor was an isolated incident and does not represent the will of the japanese people, we should negotiate with their government for peace, by which I mean just don't do anything about it."

[-]

Lz_erk@reddit

You mean like the pressure that was applied for a total surrender from Japan? No, we're not seriously going there. Horror stories about the targeting of civilians are still told, and you'll only remember them when it's time to fearmonger about what Palestinians would do in Israel's shoes. Fuck this ethnostatist genocide and all the others.

[-]

Educational_Word_633@reddit

Idk what ur rambling about. Or what your making up about me.

The civilian population of axis countries was bombed and starved to death at an unprecedented scale never seen before. So I am wondering if there were similar protests back then.

if there had been sensible negotiations and a proper discussion of a Palestinian state, this would have ended the cycle of violence.

So instead of trying to eliminate Hamas after the massacre on Oct. 7th, Israel should have negotiated sensibly with them and offered them a proper state?

What kind of message do you think would it send to the Palestinians if slaughtering and kidnapping Israelis would lead to Israel finally giving them a state?

If I was a Hamas leader, I'd think "Oh geez, operation: Al Aqsa Flood actually worked out greatly in our favor! Apparently we can only get what we want if we just attack Israel hard enough!"

[-]

funditinthewild@reddit

If you expect Palestinians to come to the table after Israel just eliminated entire generations of families, then yes, you can expect Israel to also come to the table.

[-]

TheoriginalTonio@reddit

If you expect Palestinians to come to the table

I don't.

I expect them to surrender unconditonally.

[-]

funditinthewild@reddit

Then enjoy your forever war.

[-]

SowingSalt@reddit

Germany and Japan surrendered unconditionally after a brutal war they lost.

Look at them now.

[-]

TheoriginalTonio@reddit

So you're saying the Palestinians are less reasonable than the Germans and the Japanese in 1945?

[-]

funditinthewild@reddit

No? Germany and Japan didn’t have Americans building settlements on their land for 60 years and had no reason to believe the Americans would do that. The whole issue in Palestine is that Israel hasn’t given Palestinians a reason to trust them when Israel has been blockading and building settlements for close to 60 years. This is not what happened in Germany and Japan when you guys decided to kill Jews who were nothing but a helpless minority.

[-]

TheoriginalTonio@reddit

Germany and Japan didn’t have Americans building settlements on their land for 60 years

Germany didn't only surrender to America alone, but also to the Soviet Union, which not only occupied east Germany for 41 years, but also straight up annexed the former German regions of Prussia and Silesia, an area of more than 110,000 km^2, which is more than 300 times the size of the entire Gaza Strip and was the home of 14 million Germans who were expelled from the land.

After the dissolution of the USSR, the majority of the Land was granted to poland, while Russia kept the former city of Königsberg (now Kaliningrad) and its surrounding area for itself.

Does that mean the Germans should never have surrendered and instead fight to the last man to try to get that territory back?

Of course not.

They were reasonable enough to acknowledge their defeat and give up the land and their sovereignity as the consequence of losing the war.

[-]

funditinthewild@reddit

But isn’t it agreed that what the Soviets did was wrong? Germans were not being reasonable, they just had no choice and were wrong. I don’t see why I should support the ethnic cleansing of Germans from their lands. Just because it happened doesn’t mean it’s okay for it to happen again.

If we allow this precedence that the conquered should give up then why fight for Ukraine? Russia won the territory, Ukraine should just give up then? Let Russia annex the east and crimea?

[-]

TheoriginalTonio@reddit

they just had no choice

Exactly. That's what it means to get defeated. You have no choice but to surrender or face annihilation.

That's why the Japanese surrendered as well.

But isn’t it agreed that what the Soviets did was wrong?

What does it matter wheter you lose to an enemy who is morally right or wrong? If you're getting overwhelmed by insurmountable force, your moral evaluations are irrelevant as you'll still have to surrender and make whatever concessions the victirious party demands of you.

I don’t see why I should support the ethnic cleansing of Germans from their lands.

I didn't ask you to support it. That's not the point.

The point is that even though the Germans faced a massive loss of land and ethnic cleansing, they still were reasonable enough to rather accept that than to continue the obviously futile effort to keep fighting for it til the bitter end.

Just because it happened doesn’t mean it’s okay for it to happen again.

Again, it's not about whether it's okay or not. It's about whether or not it's reasonable to surrender unconditionally in the face of inevitable defeat.

If we allow this precedence that the conquered should give up then why fight for Ukraine?

That's a very good question indeed.

Russia won the territory, Ukraine should just give up then?

Although it definitely sucks and I wish it wasn't the case, I don't see any reasonable alternative at this point.

Let Russia annex the east and crimea?

When there's no realistic chance for Ukraine to conquer it back anytime soon, then yes.

Ukraine hasn’t been making much gains in the past year, so should they just accept it and surrender?

Should they instead keep sending more and more men into the meatgrinder and waste money, resources and hundreds of thousands of lives more, only to eventually end up with the same result anyway?

Russia is most certainly not going to retreat and Ukraine most definitely runs out of men far earlier than Russia does.

So they might as well just cut their losses now and spare the lives of countless of young men that would otherwise needlessly die for something that is already inevitable.

Just like the Palestinians would have been well advised to surrender a long time ago. Because no matter how justified their claims to any land might be, they gotta accept the fact that Israel isn't going anywhere and they'll also not going to stop destroying Gaza until their military goals have been fully achieved. They will destroy Hamas and they will get all the hostages back, dead or alive.

And the sooner that happens, the less the Palestinians will have to suffer and die in the process.

[-]

funditinthewild@reddit

I can’t lie that I’ve considered Palestinian might consider accepting some losses.

So then do we agree that Israel is the unlawful aggressor here but that the Palestinians should be pragmatic and accept the loss for the betterment of their people?

[-]

TheoriginalTonio@reddit

So then do we agree that Israel is the unlawful aggressor here

No. The unlawful aggressor is still Hamas.

I agree that Israel is going way too far in its response and has done many horrible things in this war. But let's not forget that none of this would've happened if Hamas didn't murder, rape, torture and kidnap masses of innocent Israelis in the first place.

[-]

funditinthewild@reddit

I don’t see how that’s a defence. The U.S. committed unlawful acts in Iraq. Does that justify the Iraqis commit horrible things to Americans? Germany was also complicit in that as well. Should Iraq seek revenge on German civilians?

I agree that Hamas committed war crimes but how is the solution to just commit more war crimes? It’s not like Israel was innocent before October 7th, either. The settlements and settler terror happened way before October 7th. How can you not see that there has been a pattern of violence in which Israel was a major part of long before the current war?

[-]

TheoriginalTonio@reddit

How can you not see that there has been a pattern of violence in which Israel was a major part of long before the current war?

And the Arabs were not?

I'm not saying the Israelis are innocent. But let's not pretend like the Palestinian Arabs in cohorts with the other surrounding Arab nations weren't more than often enough the initiators of violence themselves.

Both need to be held accountable. And for that a ceasefire needs to be held.

How exactly do you expect Hamas to be held accountable in a ceasefire?

[-]

funditinthewild@reddit

I don't think Arabs were innocent. I just don't see how what they did justifies what Israel has done. For example, Israel justifies settlements in the Golan and West Bank for security reasons. Then why settle Israeli civilians? Why not just keep military outposts to keep an eye on militants? Research it up: Palestinian villages were demolished and Syrians were expelled to build many of the settlements, in direct contradiction with International law. I don't think any European would not become violent if this happened to them.

But I think my biggest issue with everything you say is that you acknowledge that Israel is not innocent but do not support Israel receiving consequences for their actions. (i.e by asking for unconditional surrender from Hamas). Ideally, Israel should have been sanctioned the moment they started building settlements and expelling Palestinians from their homes so that it would never have got to this point. But for some reason, you are advocating for Israel to continue making mistakes without consequence even those that you acknowledge happen.

How exactly do you expect Hamas to be held accountable in a ceasefire?

For starters, Netanyahu can stop diverting funds to Hamas, which he himself admitted was to play divide and conquer (look it up, you'll find an Israeli source for this).
Empower the PA to arrest Hamas leaders who do not comply. The PA already aids Israel in the west bank. (trust me, they'll love to do it. Mahmoud Abbas recently called Hamas "sons of dogs"). An empowered PA is also what Biden was calling for, so this isn't some leftist take. Pro-Palestinians would crucify me to suggest this.

That's where it can start. Ideally I'd like to work towards a one state where Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights but understandably it cannot start there yet.

And also importantly, suppress support for Hamas by actually making meaningful concessions where Israel is actually in the wrong for. For example, not suggest a solution that rewards Israel for illegal settlements that never should have been built in the first place. (e.g the Camp David accords, which basically let Israel keep west bank settlements that were never legal for them to build in the first place under the same international law human rights respecting countries like Germany have pledged allegiance to).

Will there still be fanatic Palestinians left who will reject this, sure? There will be Israelis too. But ask yourself why Palestinians in Israel who have mostly the same rights as Israelis are the most peaceful out of all Palestinians? More Rights = More Peace. People are less interested in taking up arms when they aren't worried about their villages been demolished to make way for Israeli settlers. Or their aid is controlled by an external force. Or their fishing waters are restricted beyond their control.

[-]

drink_bleach_and_die@reddit

Well, making any sort of concessions after a barbaric attack would be terrible optics domestically and create perverse incentives, but surely there's a middle ground there somewhere which involves a ground operation to bring Hamas down without a near-total siege that leads to mass starvation in Gaza.

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

That's like saying the response to 9/11 should have been to just "look inside" and reinforce cockpit doors and 'learn our lesson"

[-]

ampersand355@reddit

A lot of this is outright sensationalism... from the BBC article about the same thing they, they pressed Fletcher on how he arrived at this number and he referred to the IPC report.

It highlighted a report from the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) which stated 14,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition are expected to occur among children aged six to 59 months between April 2025 and March 2026.

The IPC report says this could take place over the course of about a year - not 48 hours.

Looks like this is Hamas's plan. https://nypost.com/2025/05/20/world-news/hamas-faces-backlash-in-gaza-after-official-dismisses-war-dead-as-material-calculations/

They said themselves that this is a calculated and deliberate cost they are willing to pay. Everything is going according to Hamas plan. 🍾

[-]

Oh get off it, you know exactly what I'm referring to. You wrote that ny post is a terrible source, so please let me know what sources you consider reliable like I asked in the first place

[-]

cvpricorn@reddit

I don’t know what you’re referring to, because my criticism was of somebody making a claim solely supported by a tabloid. You’ve not addressed that claim, and either don’t know or are playing dumb about why a tabloid is not a good news source, so I’m not really sure what you’re doing here at all lol

[-]

Professional-Kiwi-31@reddit

I have no vested interest in defending or attacking NY Post, I'm asking what source of news or information you consider unbiased and reliable. Do you have opinions on geopolitical matters? If so, what are they based on?

I don't understand why you're allergic to answering questions but take some antihistamines and just try

[-]

redelastic@reddit

Quoting the New York Post which quotes the Times of Israel lol.

[-]

amendment64@reddit

The Israelis are making a land grab for Gaza, and having people alive there would be inconvenient. When the Palestinian population is reduced to a manageable(by way of force and surveillance like the uighurs) amount, they will take the land and "control" what is left of the population.

[-]

banjosuicide@reddit

Yeah, causing innocent people to stave to death is solving Israel's "problem" by itself.

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

Except the UN already retracted this claim, no wonder nobody listens to your claims

[-]

thrice_twice_once@reddit

The Israelis are making a land grab for Gaza, and having people alive there would be inconvenient. When the Palestinian population is reduced to a manageable(by way of force and surveillance like the uighurs) amount, they will take the land and "control" what is left of the population.

This is exactly what they are doing. In fact, their minister Bezalel Smotrych actually said so more than a year ago.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-31/ty-article/100-200-000-not-two-million-israels-finance-minister-envisions-depopulated-gaza/0000018c-bfe8-d6c4-ab8d-fffc0b910000

"In an interview to army radio, the far-right minister said that his "demand" was for the Gaza Strip to stop being a "hotbed where two million people grow up on hatred and aspire to destroy the State of Israel."

Without outlining his preferred method, Smotrich then suggested that the removal of around 90 percent of Gaza's residents would help achieve his goal. "If there are 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs in Gaza and not two million, the whole discourse about the day after will be different," he said.

[-]

jj2jj2aa@reddit

UN allows leeway for defenders to take attackers land, since hamas won't stop killing its own ppl they'll put the land to much better use

[-]

this should be higher, but it obviously won't.

[-]

funditinthewild@reddit

It's still splitting hairs, though. The UN still confirms that even if the number is mixed up, the threat to children is still life-threatening.

Correct the number if you like, I won't stop you because we should keep facts and not be sensationalist, but this really doesn't change the fact the Gazan babies are starving because of Israel's actions.

[-]

silly_flying_dolphin@reddit (OP)

There is also a possibility that Wouter Booij is wrong...

[-]

zapreon@reddit

I mean, UN spokesperson confirming the figure by the UN is wrong and that rectification will come later today is pretty hard evidence that the figure is wrong

[-]

waiver@reddit

"Later today" was supposed to be the Monday

[-]

silly_flying_dolphin@reddit (OP)

later vandaag zal er volgens hem een formele rectificatie volgen van de VN.

“It’s going to be a very, very hard discussion on Gaza,” she said, noting that member states took different views in their approach to Israel’s government.

Kaja Kallas speaks to the press during a European foreign affairs and defence ministers council in Brussels on 20 May 2025.

Kaja Kallas speaks to the press during a European foreign affairs and defence ministers council in Brussels on 20 May 2025. Photograph: Olivier Hoslet/EPAFrance’s foreign minister Jean-Noël Barrot told local media earlier on Tuesday that Paris backed a review of the EU-Israel agreement to see if Israel was respecting its commitments to human rights.

In a letter to Kallas, Dutch foreign minister Casper Veldkamp said Israel’s aid blockade was a violation of its obligations under international humanitarian law and therefore the EU-Israel agreement, which includes provisions to respect human rights. He also expressed concern about Israel’s plans to entrust the delivery of aid to Palestinians to private companies, rather than the UN and humanitarian organisations.

He wrote:

All of this merits a broader reflection on and discussion of our relationship with Israel.

Ireland’s development minister Neale Richmond told reporters that ten countries now supported the decision to review the agreement, up from only a handful a year ago.

Commenting on the growing momentum to review the agreement, he said:

I can only imagine it’s because other member states have eyes and ears and they can see the absolute horrors that are unfolding on a daily basis live on our television screens in Gaza.

Children are dying, children are starving, families are being murdered every day. This is not acceptable and it’s clearly now time for the EU to look at that EU-Israel trade association and the very clear breaches of the human rights under article 2 [of the agreement].

He called on Kallas to provide “a clear message [that] we won’t stand for the status quo”.

Maintainer | Creator | Source Code
Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot

[-]

coverageanalysisbot@reddit

Sorry empleadoEstatalBot,

I haven't found any additional coverage for this story (yet!).

I’m a bot. Read here to learn how it works or message us with any feedback so we can improve the bot for you.

[-]

Technically correct, but it's terribly poor taste from you to say this after a similar number of children have already met their fate from the indiscriminate bombing campaign Israel is waging. I don't suppose you've seen the images of charred babies that have been circulating in the past couple of years.

[-]

silly_flying_dolphin@reddit (OP)

That second paragraph was completely unnecessary and shows you probably didnt read beyond the headline.

[-]

Nice__Spice@reddit

This is on Israel. It’s on Israel’s allies starting with the US and all other eu nations.

This is sadly and inevitably on all of us as well who couldn’t do anything.

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

The link you have provided contains keywords for topics associated with an active conflict, and has automatically been flaired accordingly. If the flair was not updated, the link submitter MUST do so. Due to submissions regarding active conflicts generating more contrasting discussion, comments will only be available to users who have set a subreddit user flair, and must strictly comply with subreddit rules. Posters who change the assigned post flair without permission will be temporarily banned. Commenters who violate Reddiquette and civility rules will be summarily banned.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.