What if we pull our resources and make a few large shelters.
Posted by LeastOpportunity5581@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 99 comments
It shouldn’t just be the super rich and politicians having plan B shelters. Could we put our funds together to build a few large shelters in different regions? #community #together #survive
DaveyAllenCountry@reddit
I get the idea but after a certain size maintenence becomes the largest cost problem. It's prolly not possible up continue to fund a large shelter without becoming a cult
LudefiskLongHammer@reddit
"pool* our resources"
LeastOpportunity5581@reddit (OP)
Thanks Lude.
JohnLRamey@reddit
Pool resources. Not pull. Pool is the verb you seek.
LeastOpportunity5581@reddit (OP)
Thanks John.
Jombhi@reddit
Get involved in local government start looking for ways to get CERT stockpiles and community-available shelters under your purview.
Davisaurus_@reddit
Because...people.
The older I get, and the more people I meet, the more I would prefer to die than survive in close proximity with a large number of them.
Swimmer7777@reddit
Well said.
SpartArticus@reddit
If u seen how vault tec functions in the fallout universe its exactly what would happen
Swimmer7777@reddit
Yep.
The_Kimchi_Krab@reddit
Funny how the moment you attempt to cooperate, the same issues that brought us to prepper mentality begin to arise again. Politics. War never changes. Did none of you play Fallout?
Swimmer7777@reddit
So true.
silasmoeckel@reddit
If they are not already close friends or family you do not want to prep with them period.
ThePenIslands@reddit
This.
monty845@reddit
If you wanted shelter space that was significantly better protection than just holing up in your house with your stockpiled supplies, it is going to take a significant investment. I would assume a minimum of $10k/bed space, for a minimalist bunk slot in a bunker. Add another $5-7k for a year's worth of food. Even moderate luxury is going to drive that way up...
There would also be ongoing payments. Property Taxes, Maintenance, Security, maybe some food stock rotation...
What if the people running it don't actually let you in... Just lock out half the people, and we suddenly have 2 years of supplies for those let in!
It would be really easy to scam people. 200 person capacity? How do we know they didn't sell spaces to 1,000 people?
The skill set to lead the promotion and construction of this type of project may not be well aligned with leading people in a post collapse world.
Its going to be hard to sell to the public while keeping it a secret. Anything you do to try to keep it secret will exacerbate #3-4 When lots of people from the area know your facility is full of supplies, it may become a target.
Many of the problems with bug out locations apply here too, like getting there safely once its gotten bad enough you realize you need to...
People have tried, and its always ended up being a mix of sketchy and failure.
Upstairs-Parsley3151@reddit
You don't need to make it a secret, you simply need to put up a no alcohol sign and everyone would suddenly understand you don't have anything worth stealing.
PuddleOfStix@reddit
A lot of that sounds like the Vault-Tec corporation from Fallout, especially the selling limited spots by the masses
Reneeisme@reddit
All the stuff related to having to trust that someone else is going to honor a contract with you at the end of the world is why I wouldn’t bother, exactly. Even some rich people will likely get screwed out of their own bunkers when it’s clear that the social order and money are meaningless and their surrounded by support staff who made all the arrangements for that bunker and would just as soon use it for themselves and their own friends and family.
If you can’t afford the land to put it on and can’t build it yourself, in a place where you are going to be all of the time to immediately occupy it, in a manor that keeps it’s existence a secret from anyone else, it’s already unlikely to be of any actual use to you. Never mind if you have to involve strangers. In a real end of times scenario, people are not going to care what you expected or agreed to or have a now unenforceable contract for b
monty845@reddit
This is very solvable for the mega wealthy, but it requires consideration for others. Those support/security staff? You build enough space for their immediate family too. You treat them like they are important before hand.
You set it up to be more that you are in this together. You can get a way with a bit extra for yourself, like having bigger bed room with a study in the bunker, but you need to be careful to not let it get to the point that its rubbing it in their faces. You eat the same food, and eat it together with them, not just to seem more connected, but so its clear you aren't getting better food or anything.
So, you not only treat them right, you saved them and their families from whatever the apocalypse is... While that my not make you the unquestioned ruler for life, it will give you a ton of loyalty/political capital, and set you up as the initial leader. Just be a reasonably good leader going forward and you are set.
Reneeisme@reddit
Anything is possible, but how many people actually like their boss enough to prioritize them over someone who couldn't possibly be part of that agreement? Like, great aunt Betty isn't on the list, until you off your boss, and then she and all over cats can come on it.
And even if this is true for the rich person smart enough to both conceive of it and actually in practice treat all of his staff well enough to make it happen, that doesn't change what I said. Some of them will get screwed, because they won't all. I've seen video tours of a few of these rich people's bunkers and the ones shown don't have the capacity for dozens of staff, much less those people's families.
I'm just saying, best not to put your faith in bunkers, unless you have the means and smarts to make them work on your own. They aren't even a perfect solution for people with the money to buy dozens of them.
XRlagniappe@reddit
Also, you would likely have to travel to the shelter. That could be problematic given the distance and the circumstances.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
That's covered under #7.
XRlagniappe@reddit
Sorry, should have read it closer. Thanks.
dinkydinkyding@reddit
Just me chuckling with schadenfreude at the idea of billionaires having these problems. Cultivating the social and interpersonal skills to survive in a large metropolitan area will better prepare you better than amount of money
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Good reply.
The other factor is that while in general preppers tend to be cheap with money, there are a few that have the cash, but won't lift a finger. So the flip side is you may run into Mr. MoneyBags that has the cash to do stuff, but won't get dirty in the process. As "community" BS goes, he will be despised by everyone that doesn't have as much cash- or uses what resources they do have for stupid stuff but want to "talk" about preparing instead.
Anyone who has been in a real survival group has experienced this. Some will take it serious, train, do the physical training, store food, etc. Some will think they got the protection of being in a group without any EFFORT on their parts. Or their effort will be border line forced and near worthless, but they will feel "entitled" to the protection of the group.
The biggest evaluations of success in a survival group were:
Is the individual storing food? I don't mean 2 weeks till the fema camp opens, I mean storing a significant amount of food.
Are they trying to/working on/maintaining a level of physical fitness? Is it hit and miss or something regular? This shows commitment. Do they train on their own (showing independence and initiative) or do they lean on others to motivate them (dependent personality, along for the ride, doing it only if the group does, etc.)
What is their family situation? Is their spouse taking an active part? Are they just "tolerating" it or actively HINDERING it? Are the kids out of control? Oh boy, gonna get some downvotes now, like I GAF LOL. But that's REALITY. No one who sees your out of control kids not be able to act civil for 5 minutes thinks "gee I'd love to spend 2 weeks in a fallout shelter with those folks!" That's reality. And a spouse (of either gender) can hinder the family's preparations very easily, seen it happen dozens of times over 39 years of doing this. Your family is either going to be your #1 asset or your biggest liability if something happens and that is 110% up to YOU.
So you can see from this, that you could have a Mr. Moneybags type that yeah he could pay the costs for his portion of the "community" shelter, but he might be total worthless (or worse) to the group as a whole.
On the flip side, you could have a lower income family that works hard, good family structure that puts what it can into preps through work and not just talk, but couldn't "afford" the cost of your "community" shelter.
Groups work, but monetary partnerships/investments in groups rarely do.
8Deer-JaguarClaw@reddit
Well said. /thread
lcl111@reddit
Always? Lol
Upstairs-Parsley3151@reddit
Might be good idea to do it as a non profit since that would help with tax issues and honestly, why shouldn't we have non profit shelters? They could see some use from natural disasters too.
hope-luminescence@reddit
People have tried this kind of thing before. Frankly, large communal projects among doomsday preppers have a habit of not working very well.
This kind of project tends to attract grifters, poseurs, fantasy people, and The People Who Assume Prepping Equals Bunker.
The other issue is that, in a catastrophe bad enough that you really need a shelter that would make sense as a communally funded shelter, it is likely not easy or safe to travel even a comparatively short distance.
Scared-Tea-8911@reddit
Communes in general have a myriad of issues. Equal distribution of labor, equal distribution of knowledge, unknown personality issues… not conducive to surviving the end of the world unless everyone is from a military background or something as a screening option?
hope-luminescence@reddit
I don't see why being from a military background would help.
The issue is more a fundamental one of trust.
Scared-Tea-8911@reddit
I think the military background is more about respecting hierarchy and dealing well with high-stress situations in an organized way. 🤷🏻♀️
I suppose EMS, first responders, nurses, etc would be good candidates as well. The unfortunate thing is that the bad candidates (anarchists, mentally unhealthy, failure-to-launch, narcissists, etc.) tend to be the ones drawn toward commune organizations.
Own_Grapefruit8839@reddit
Buddy I can’t even get my condo board to agree on a lawn maintenance company.
Big_Cryptographer_16@reddit
Was on one a long time ago. We spent multiple sessions solely discussing whether an armoire on someone’s porch was indoor or outdoor furniture. We didn’t accomplish much.
Formal_Pension_9456@reddit
lol
CardiologistPlus8488@reddit
It's never a good idea to put people together, especially in large groups... only bad things can happen
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Don't know why this is down-voted. It's true, when you put a large number of random people into a very small area, that's definitely a recipe for unpleasantness.
Now, there are some exceptions to this, like submarine crews. But the difference there is that they are psychologically screened before training, are under military discipline, and are strictly volunteers. A random 134 people put into a shelter half the size of what a similar size crew on a nuclear submarine would have to endure is going to cause a lot of problems.
Endy0816@reddit
Even on the Sub, it got rough at times with no way to avoid each other.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
I’m sure, what with Buckman farting and all.
Endy0816@reddit
The real reason for the ever-present smell of amine is to cover up all the methane produced by Buckman.
CardiologistPlus8488@reddit
very true, there's also a chain of command that is absent from a shelter situation. you get All Captains, No Crew
Mala_Suerte1@reddit
Lone wolves won't survive if it's a serious SHTF, but finding a group is the hardest thing in prepping. I wouldn't buy into a community or a group. I have found like minded people through hobbies that I have. For example, shooting, homesteading, hunting, fishing, etc.
We have about 50 in our group. So far, so good.
Scared-Tea-8911@reddit
That’s a wonderful point. As another example - lots of Westman Price type people are quite “prep adjacent” and community is a core value for that group!
More_Dependent742@reddit
The Finnish model would be my ideal. They have more shelter spaces than they do inhabitants. These vast underground spaces also serve as multipurpose peace-time venues (everything from cinemas to ice rinks, to play grounds, to... well, everything that can be packed away within hours). The second section of this documentary is eye-opening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msfrit12u0M
Austria was pretty good until the 80s: all public buildings had to have fall-out shelters, and every house built had to have a fall-out shelter room. You can still see these under universities and schools.
Terrorcuda17@reddit
I can't remember if it was Sweden or Finland, but one town had an Olympic sized swimming pool, underground, carved out of the bedrock. The thing was built as a shelter first then a pool. It can completely drain in 20 minutes, the water all stored for use and they have supplies to turn the empty pool into a shelter for several hundred people in literally an hour.
FiresideFable@reddit
Finland has pools in underground shelters, not sure about Sweden, I think they used to. (aquamagazine.com)
hzpointon@reddit
What do those wily Finns know that we don't???
account_not_valid@reddit
They've been in a land war with Russia. That's a lesson you only want to learn once.
Mala_Suerte1@reddit
With as much border as they share with Russia, they are probably concerned with being invaded. They did just join NATO a couple of years ago.
BigBennP@reddit
So this is an interesting side point. There are two entirely different concepts for "shelter."
We live on the edge of my in-laws 160 acre cattle farm. Relatively recently they installed a large tornado shelter by their house with the expectation that it's big enough for the whole family. It's about a quarter mile from our house to their house. Too far for the sudden middle of the night tornado but close enough to go if you have any kind of warning.
The shelters in finland, much like the shelters in israel, are not apocalypse shelters. They're bomb shelters.
There were also lots of civil bomb shelters in the US in the 50s and 60s. Back when nuclear war meant fleets of bombers rather than missiles and the total number of potential bombs was lower.
Ticket2ride21@reddit
How would you even run security? What happens to strangers that come knocking at your gates? Do you feed them? Do you let them in? Are you willing to watch your neighbors starve?
For many MANY people, the plan will simply be to take. They don't need to prep a bunker when they can just kill their neighbors and take theirs.
Trust me when I say they WILL attempt to. It doesn't matter how well they know their neighbors. What wouldn't you do to feed your child that is starving?
boogs34@reddit
And maybe we can pay routinely for the services for the greater good
And an armed force to protect us
And an authority to ensure everyone is paying
And we all have to vote to agree who makes the decisions and then if we don’t like that guy we can vote again in a few years
Nose_to_the_Wind@reddit
The Cartmanland Dilemma
_significs@reddit
such a crazy idea will never work in this day and age
Eazy12345678@reddit
people dont want to share with strangers.
CharacterForce1569@reddit
People are already doing this at climatesafevillages.org
InformationPrevious@reddit
For the same reason public utilities dont work over time. A corporation comes along and buys access to the politicians that license what the greedy want.
Or in shared ownership coliving communities someones ex gets their share or their horrid child inherits the share... it gets messy
Distributed networks with nodes of shared skillsets and tools and timebanking communities work much better. Besides its hard to prep for tuesday and doomsday in the shared bunker scenerio.
throwawayt44c@reddit
I'd be more interested in guerilla gardening in some mountainous region with some caves and doing some expanding.
VictorTheCutie@reddit
Mutual aid is the shelter.
recyclingloom@reddit
Water’s your main priority. You will need to have a direct connection or third party connection to 1 of the oceans for long term access of water to purify into clean and safe water to drink, bath in, or use for farming purposes. Why you ask? You can only go about 1 minute without oxygen. 3 days without water. 3 weeks without food. That’s if you push your body to the physical limits.
No-Sandwich6638@reddit
I like the large shelter/underground bunker idea. Ideally, the owner would have spaces available that you can buy and use at anytime however it does require an awful amount of trust in people you don’t know
Milksmither@reddit
There's no fucking way I want randos in my prep hole.
Vegetaman916@reddit
This is exactly what we did back in 2019, and I can't recommend it enough. We went pretty far into the whole community thing, maybe too far for most people to be into, but it has paid off in so many ways.
Even without any SHTF, just having a newly reduced cost to everything has been huge. I don't think mist people know just how much money members of a collective can save on everything. I haven't had to work a job since 2019, and while I do make less income now, I also don't need nearly as much. LLC owns everything and pays for everything.
Each person, myself included, does have to put in a day or two of work for the whole each month, but that is a very small price to pay.
A few short years later and we have an isolated and self-sustaining place built into an old hard rock mine way out in the mountains, with enough stored food and supplies to keep us all in vittles for 12 years without ever hunting or gathering a single thing.
Most of us still live in the cities, but just having that place and knowing the group is working together at all times has been the biggest boost to peace of mind ever.
For anyone considering it, I highly recommend it, and whatever you do, don't let anyone tell you its "too hard." As long as you are willing to cut off societal dependencies you won't have any problems at all.
FlashyImprovement5@reddit
Much easier to create a small, local MAG. Much easier to work together with those you actually know.
You rent a backhoe and dig a root cellar and put in proper venting and shelving. Each family gets 1 wall for their supplies. Each family is responsible for their own gear. Think what you see in Amish root cellars pictures.
It wouldn't be for sleeping but cots could be stored and used if there is enough room. It would mainly be just sitting to wait out storms or other emergencies.
Over the top you plant a garden with fruit bushes large enough to hide the door from neighbors when it is opened. These are in back yards, not connected to the house nor put under a house. Those get people killed when the house collapses into the basement.
Formal_Pension_9456@reddit
It’s not financially feasible. Even the ultra rich that have these plan b shelters may never be able to get to them once shtf
StoneColdDadass@reddit
It's a great idea in theory.
In practice, unless you have a very well structured limited partnership agreement that owns everything and accounts for ongoing taxes, expenses, and contribution requirements that safeguards decision making authority and prevents someone from taking over legally or physically, all you have is someone's private shelter funded by others.
jacksraging_bileduct@reddit
I think it a great idea, but that would be seriously difficult for a bunch of average joes to accomplish.
CTSwampyankee@reddit
-you’re not in the club aka George Carlin
-people suck, I don’t want to deal with lunatic randoms
-we are expendable
The government doesn’t care if you live or die, the reps only care about the inside deals they’re getting. The size and scope of expenditures would be massive to accomplish this. There is no political will to do this.
lexmozli@reddit
This, so much this. I love the idea of community, helping each other, teamwork makes the dreamwork and all of that, but it's been extremely hard to find people with similar mindsets (hard, not impossible).
I'd imagine you'd have to go through a tailored psych/personality eval so that the community would be matched accordingly in this regard, but I don't see people signing up for that because of various reasons (profiling, etc).
CTSwampyankee@reddit
Imagine taking the first 300 people through the door at Walmart and putting them all together. Rope smokers, screaming crotch spawn, rude people, criminals, beta dunning Kruger leaders, etc.
Folks can downvote, but the only person responsible for saving you is you.
what_joy@reddit
This is great except whoever invests (at least initially) would be part owners. If they chose to sell their portion and the other owners can't or won't buy them out, then it goes to the open market.
NotAnotherRedditAcc2@reddit
This already exists, though.
what_joy@reddit
This is great except whoever invests (at least initially) would be part owners. If they chose to sell their portion and the other owners can't or won't buy them out, then it goes to the open market.
AstroVan94@reddit
I AGREEVWITH THIS WHILEHEARDEDLY!!!
OHLY BY BANDING TOGETHER AND POOLING OUR RESOURCES CAN WE DEFEAT THE GLOBALISTS WHO ARE CONTANTLY TRYING TO BRING DOWN OUR GREAT LEADER SO THRY CAN SHOVE COMMUNISM DOWN OUR THROATS!! INSTEAD LETS GET ALL FREEFODOM LOVERS TOGETHER SND KET FREEDOM RING!!!
IMAGINE A WORLD FALLING APRT AG THE SEEMS BUT FREEDOM LOVING PATRIOTS LIKE OURSELVES GET SMART AND STICK TOGETHER TO PREPRE FOR ALL DISASTERS!!!
I WELCOME YOU ALL TO JOIN MY MOVEMENT WHERE PREPPING IS A VITAL PART OFVWHAT WE BELIEVE!! YOU ARE ALL WELCOME AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHI LIVE BEAD ME TOU ARE WELCOME TO COME BY MY 120 ACRES AND DISCUSS BEING RRADY FOR THE FUTURE!!
lexmozli@reddit
Your messages and ideas would be read more if you would not write everything in capital letters, just my two cents.
NotAnotherRedditAcc2@reddit
It's a troll account, I'm pretty sure.
CTSwampyankee@reddit
bunkers are the fantasy of most here. They provide that final element of control over situations that we have no effect on.
at some point, you have to look at likelihood of the occurrence, although it pains me to do so and kills my fantasies. What are the chances that you’re going to need to shelter? I think most of us are visualizing a nuclear exchange. You probably don’t need a bunker to survive two weeks in a non-Target area. You probably get more mileage prepping with food and radiological monitoring, some shielding for the basement is a step no one does.
PlanetoftheAtheists@reddit
So you can then fight among yourselves if you're ever confined to them
helddeven@reddit
If we all stood together, regardless of race, religion, sexual identity. We could build a very strong and beneficial society that works for all of us. We need to start locally and work our way out.
Nobody is looking after us anymore, the rich own everything. They have always owned everything.
We have more in common with our neighbors than we want to admit and we should all be working together. There is strength in numbers, especially when we are the 99% vs the rich 1%.
Velvetmaggot@reddit
There used to be fallout shelter signs all over the place…and pay phones for that matter. It seems that these are now dinosaurs. A “fallout revival” project could embrace history and maybe get some organizations on board that have a great community reach
joelnicity@reddit
You want to “pool” them?
ExpressionGuilty6391@reddit
I think it helps to remember that the oligarchs are building doomsday shelters to protect themselves from *us (obviously among other things).
Personal opinion: Just building strong communities, including durable safety nets for our most vulnerable members is probably the very best prep we can do right now.
Let the billionaires sit in some underground bunker.
OptimizedPockets@reddit
Maybe designate a family member with a larger house as the bug out destination, but I wouldn’t go public with the preps.
StarlightLifter@reddit
Ultimately our shelter is planet earth. And we have over used and polluted that shelter, to the point it is arguable that we will be able to turn back at this point.
PrisonerV@reddit
Didn't some guy bury a bunch of school buses in like Canada to create a big shelter for his town back in like the 1980s?
It's still sitting there waiting for the end of the world.
(As I understand it, school buses are poor structures to build a shelter and it suffered from water damage and very poor ventilation.)
IlliniWarrior6@reddit
find a single compatible prepper or family to group together & organize >>> come back and discuss some grandiose program like that ....
the private enterprises trying to sell their missile silo condo projects would appreciate your enthusiasm >>> most keep changing ownership until they bankrupt - most are tied by court action into the next couple decades - criminal charges involved .....
prepping is not a group effort - hasn't been - most likely never will be >>> plan for yourself to add a few select survivors post-SHTF - best you can probably do in that regard
SetNo8186@reddit
Shelter against what, for how long?
jrichar@reddit
I wouldn't be surprised if this was attempted and then you were shut down by the gov. The gov absolutely dislikes self reliant people forming into groups.
hope-luminescence@reddit
Why would that happen?
theantnest@reddit
*pool out resources
Not pull
ElephantNo3640@reddit
Frankly, sheltering on a compound with strangers is pretty much at the bottom of my prep list. It’d be interesting to see how much fortification would be required on a highly publicized prepper shelter like that, though.
Hot_Annual6360@reddit
Well it would be more efficient, now the problems would be many more
NightSisterSally@reddit
It's a wonderful idea- just lots of chances for corruption. The way I could see it working is if you have a community of people who know each other first, then build it together
KitehDotNet@reddit
Gov't designed this for you. Learn to dig. https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/j0ht3/ysk_how_to_make_a_fallout_shelter_out_of_a_car/
taipan821@reddit
We have 12 public cyclone shelters. Each shelter roughly costs $10 million AUD (thank you United Arab Emirates for funding half of them)
They are all meant to have the following requirements
Each shelter is a 'hardened' building, built on high ground, with exterior doors either shuttered, or able to be bolted closed. they usually require a shelter staff of 12 people (medical, fire, police, operators) and are intended to be used for 36 hours, just long enough for a cyclone to pass over.
Occupants get a chair to sit on, any sources of flames are banned, supplies are not provided by the shelter.
monty845@reddit
Just to do the math, that is $11k-28.5k per person, above ground, without food, or apparently even beds.
taipan821@reddit
that's government for you!
GeologistCreative842@reddit
"Occupants get a chair to sit on"
For an average of $11k USD, I think I'd figure something out in my home instead of a 72 hour cyclone shelter that gives me a chair and no supplies.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
How large and where? I need to know so I know how much dynamite I need.
You'd not really specifying what you mean so it's hard to offer a critique. But it's going to be just about impossible to build anything really large and sustainable and keep it a secret. The rich can, if they choose, hire a small group of high power builders, get them to sign an NDA and have at least a shot of keeping the location a secret. To accomplish the same thing you need a LOT more people; and no large group every keeps a secret for long. And then in your hypothetical disaster, everyone knows where the Really Big Supply Of Food, Water and Guns are. You'll never have a moment's peace and eventually someone will find a way to blow, poison or cook you out.
And don't kid yourself. The super-rich build these elaborate shelters but it's nothing but a dick size contest. They aren't a functional solution to any long term problem. They're all premised on the idea that after a few years, civilization gets magically restored and they can come out again. It's Adam's Magrathea, except you don't have hibernation to make it work.
What survives the collapse of civilizations is a farming community with a lot of water and land and the ability to befriend neighbors on a large scale. Distributed resources, distributed trade, no single point of failure. Building a bunch of Alpha Complexes isn't going to work.