Netanyahu vows to ‘take control’ of Gaza as UK, France and Canada threaten action against Israel
Posted by Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 309 comments
Mobile_Ask2480@reddit
what "actions" are they going to threaten them with?
a slap on the wrist?
We know the wests complicity in this genocide and the world will remember
ArugulaElectronic478@reddit
Sanctions but also can you tell me what the Middle East has done to help Palestine? What about South America? Africa? Why is it only the job of the west to keep shit in order? Iraq has done less than anyone bro.
Mobile_Ask2480@reddit
First of all, the West will never put sanctions on its military outpost. Second, it's because the WEST BROKE IT. Not only does it give weapons to Israel to bomb children, but it also gives them intel and gives them political support in the UN and their countries.
and to answer the damn question, the Middle Eastern countries AND South American countries and African countries have (the majority of them) done more than the west by not supporting this fucking genocide.
And how can any country in the Middle East support/help the Palestinians without the West calling it either terrorism or being accused of anti-Semitism ??
And which country in the Middle East that supported Palestine hasn't been either toppled or sanctioned to its eyeball?
Mundane_Molasses6850@reddit
i wonder if Western countries fear that any military strike against Israel will result in Israeli attacks on their own countries.
for me i wonder what would happen if the US, in a hypothetical dream world, had destroyed significant chunks of Israel's air force, which was the main perpetrator of the Gaza atrocities. What would happen? Would Israeli agents ever attack the US?
Mr_Faux_Regard@reddit
Israel has literally already attacked an American vessel to stage a false flag attack, killing several US soldiers in the process, and absolutely nothing was done about it.
sieurblabla@reddit
Something happened, the US shut up to not embarass their ally.
eldenpotato@reddit
They shut up bc Israel’s value as a partner was much higher during the Cold War
ArugulaElectronic478@reddit
lol I think the Cold War is still happening big dawg. Just with China now.
sieurblabla@reddit
Setious question, how? Why favor the new tiny colonial state over all the arab nations who have many natural resources?
eldenpotato@reddit
Israel barely has the long range strike capability as it is. They don’t have intercontinental strike capabilities. The best then could do is attack American bases in the region but that would mean attacking other countries
pmckizzle@reddit
Since they're unhinged war hawks, yes. They would 100% attack any Western nation. They would likely use terrorism or sabotage rather than military strikes. They have plenty of experience blowing up innocent people, so I'd imagine they'd just continue to do that.
RingSplitter69@reddit
They are not our allies.
New_7688@reddit
They literally bombed our people in the king David hotel
SymphoDeProggy@reddit
you literally blocked holocaust refugees from fleeing to palestine.
Prosthemadera@reddit
That would be the end of Israel. They're already weak.
Monterenbas@reddit
The still would have a bunch of nukes and could become the Middle East North Korea. Isolated but untouchable.
Prosthemadera@reddit
The difference is: Israel is still a democracy, they haven't been living under a dictatorship for decades, and people would vote against becoming another North Korea.
Monterenbas@reddit
If they lose the protection of the West and that the only alternative they’re left with is either become North Korea or get slaughtered by your neighbors, I’m pretty sure wich one they’ll chose.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Becoming North Korea won't save them.
This is all hypothetical anyway, it will never come to this, because before any of that happens the government will change.
Monterenbas@reddit
You think Arabs countries would go for the mutually assured destruction option?
Prosthemadera@reddit
There's no point in speculating about scenarios that will never happen. A lot has to happen before Israel turns into a North Korea-style dictatorship - there's a reason why North Korea-style dictatorships are rare.
Monterenbas@reddit
You’re ne one that claimed that turning into an isolated and recluses armed nuclear state « won’t save them », so what makes you think that?
Prosthemadera@reddit
Has North Korea been saved? No. They suck. People suffer.
Monterenbas@reddit
North Korea as a nation state have definitely been saved, by their nuclear deterrence they’re still there despite being at war with the US for over 70 years, wich is quiet the achievement, not many countries can say the same.
Also, moving the goal post much? How did we went from « they won’t be saved » to « their people will suffer ».
Prosthemadera@reddit
sHiFtInG gOaL pOsT mUcH
Why are you so aggressive over hypothetical scenarios?
I would have talked to you if you weren't such a dick but as it stands, I don't care what you have to say anymore. You should get friends.
iLegionLord@reddit
I wonder if Western countries fear Hamas that’s why they don’t join in the war, you’re funny
waxxsinn@reddit
Who the fuck fear Hamas? They're weaker than any random shitty small country. It's like being afraid of Kosovo or Malta
iLegionLord@reddit
The same way people fear ISIS, they’re terrorists, they don’t have to have a big army, just some homemade bomb and yell allahu Akbar to inflict fear
waxxsinn@reddit
Who the fuck fears ISIS lmfaooo nowadays they're mostly known for the gore internet videos bro
iLegionLord@reddit
I fear Hamas supporters like yourself more because they do more insidious damage to our political institutions with all the dumb “protests”
waxxsinn@reddit
You dislike people rioting against your little ethnostate because you want fascism and total control of the population. Mussolini also didn't quite like protests against his government
iLegionLord@reddit
You dislike people rioting against your little terrorist state (Palestine) because you want fascism and total control of the population. Mussolini also didn't quite like protests against his government
waxxsinn@reddit
The difference being that Palestine is the state that is currently under occupation
iLegionLord@reddit
The difference being that Palestine is the state that currently takes hostages and is run by terrorists. Boohoo
waxxsinn@reddit
Again, are you a child? You're just using bad words to describe the side you dont like and good words to describe the side you support. "They have hostages and terrorists, we have heroes and prisoners" has just as much effort as saying "they're doodoo heads and we are wholesome".
While looking at facts, Israel is literally the country currently occupying Gaza. It has all control on any person that comes in and any person that comes out. It has all control on their electricity, on their food supply, on their medicine, on their water. Multiple times has used this control to cause famines in the population, only few weeks ago it bombed an humanitarian aid ship that was supposed to help Palestinians. These are facts you cant escape from, no matter what bad words you use to describe the Palestinians.
iLegionLord@reddit
Again, are you a child? You're just using bad words to describe the side you dont like and good words to describe the side you support. "They have hostages and terrorists, we have heroes and prisoners" has just as much effort as saying "they're doodoo heads and we are wholesome".
While looking at facts, Palestine is literally the country currently holding hostages. These are facts you cant escape from, no matter what bad words you use to describe the Israelis.
Boohoo
waxxsinn@reddit
Trying to use my argument against me not realizing that the first half literally contradicts the second half your comment, as again, you have just started to call the Palestinians bad words instead of trying to argue like an adult. You didn't even try to find a comeback to what i said about Israel's control of Palestine.
You will probably copy paste this comment too, and it will be the undeniable proof that Zionists lack in critical thinking skills, and it would be pretty hard to argue while being unable to form your own thoughts
iLegionLord@reddit
Trying to use my argument against me not realizing that the first half literally contradicts the second half your comment, as again, you have just started to call the Israelis bad words instead of trying to argue like an adult. You didn't even try to find a comeback to what i said about Palestine’s hostages.
You will probably copy paste this comment too, and it will be the undeniable proof that Hamas bots lack in critical thinking skills, and it would be pretty hard to argue while being unable to form your own thoughts
waxxsinn@reddit
They quite literally have what is called the "Samson Option". You can see how unhinged they are
d1ngal1ng@reddit
They can't project military power outside their region.
alkbch@reddit
The U.S. could easily obliterate Israel. NATO would bring them back to the Stone Age.
It’s not a lack of capacity, it’s a complicity in genocide.
Prosthemadera@reddit
I doubt that. Israel is in no position to attack France or Canada, either geographically or politically.
sieurblabla@reddit
And they have nukes. You don't necessarily need aircrafts or missiles for nukes. You can iflitrate a bomb somewhere you want it to explode.
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
They didn't do anything when Israel invaded Southern Lebanon and Southern Syria, I doubt they would do anything about this one besides talks.
acegikm02@reddit
its been over a year of this hell and only we’ve only just started to ‘threaten a concrete response’. idgaf they’re pretty much complicit in what’s happening and should be treated accordingly when this is over
ArugulaElectronic478@reddit
By this logic every country in the world is complicit.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Why would they stop Israel from defending itself against Hezbollah?
Lavapool@reddit
I’m hoping the optics of supporting a blatant genocide that most people are starting to see very clearly are starting to get unbearable for Western countries and it’s going to push them to finally act.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
For the sake of Gazans, let's hope not.
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
It’s honestly devastating to watch how this has escalated. Not just militarily, but morally. Netanyahu’s vow to “take control” of all of Gaza while civilians are starving, displaced, and crushed under the rubble of repeated bombings feels like an intentional doubling down in the face of mounting international pressure. And yet, when even close allies like the UK, France, and Canada (who rarely diverge from US-Israeli consensus) are calling this out as disproportionate and egregious, it says a lot about just how far things have gone.
What’s especially disturbing is the attempt to reframe humanitarian aid as something Israel grants—not a legal obligation under international law, not a basic human necessity, but a strategic tool to maintain control. The proposed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation sounds like an Orwellian attempt to monopolize and militarize aid distribution, sidestepping neutral NGOs and the UN in favor of a contractor-run system aligned with Israeli military goals. That’s not humanitarianism. That’s occupation by another name.
The fact that Netanyahu openly admits pressure came only after senators (and Trump, of all people) warned about bad optics (not because of the human toll) shows how little value is placed on Palestinian life unless the world forces it onto the agenda. And still, the response has been less than symbolic: 9 trucks of aid into a famine-stricken region of over 2 million people.
We’re watching a catastrophe unfold in slow motion while leaders talk in euphemisms and delay meaningful action. If “concrete actions” aren’t taken now, when will they ever be? So disappointing.
alkbch@reddit
Israel has been showing us for decades how little they value Palestinian lives, that is not surprising.
The UK, Canada, France and others are ignoring their duties to stop the genocide.
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
WTF is Canada going to do?
We barely have any military at all.
alkbch@reddit
Could stop trading with Israel, could recognize Palestine...
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
The USA killed 1,000,000 people in Iraq. Half of those were kids.
The secretary of State at the time said it was worth it.
So after the USA killed 500,000 children, they said it was worth it and Canada never stopped trading with the USA.
Israel kills 10% of that and you want them to stop trading with Israel?
How about some comeuppance for the USA?
Once the USA receives some justice for the millions of children they have murdered. (Iraq, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Cambodia, etc) Then I'll write a very stern letter to my local member of parliament about Palestine.
OK?
alkbch@reddit
Are you suggesting that you only care about Palestinian suffering if the USA gets punished first? That's quite the interesting take.
FYI, I agree with everything you wrote, expect your last paragraph as I suggest you do not wait to write to your local member of parliament.
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
I am suggesting that the 'outrage' and 'concern' over Palestinin suffering seems incredibly selective.
Why is everyone so upset about these people getting killed but suddenly silent when other countries are killing people in larger numbers and in just a horrific nature?
When Israel destroys water and power infrastructure of a country and causes a catastrophic famine that mainly punishes a civilian population....kills 10,000. They are called Nazis and the world condemns them and everyone is calling to economically divest.
When the USA destroys water and power infrastructure of a country and causes a catastrophic famine that mainly punishes a civilian population....kills 1,000,000. No one calls them names, the world does nothing, no one is calling to economically divest. In fact it's televised, it gets called 'shock and awe', and everyone cheers.
That is just one example. I mean, we can haul NATO into this too and start pointing out what the fuck happened in Yugoslavia, but frankly I don't have the time.
It just seems that considering the scale of horrible atrocities across the world, it looks very very suspicious that only specific countries get singled out and pilloried.
alkbch@reddit
Maybe you forgot, there were massive worldwide boycotts and protests against the invasion of Iraq back in 2003.
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
Massive? No. I did not forget about the week long protest. But that is all it was.
It was NOTHING like what is happening today.
Boycotts? Remind me, how long did that last and what countries participated?
Tell me about all the sanctions against the USA?
Oh? no sanctions you say?
At least the USA was shunned and called Nazis, right?
Oh? Not a bit?
Interesting that.
alkbch@reddit
Yes, massive protests, you can find them easily if you know how to use a search engine.
Yes, boycotts, in many countries across the world. Some have been ongoing ever since.
I do not remember sanctions against the USA.
Of course the USA has been shunned.
It's bizarre that you focus so much on this by the way, it's almost as you if you were personally bothered that people are actively denouncing a genocide as it is happening.
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
I'm not 'blaming' people for anything. How would blame even work in such a situation?
What is bizarre is that you 'conveniently' seem to be ignoring the very thing I bolded that would have answered your question.
Because I find it suspicious that the outrage only occurs when selective people are killed.
It's almost as if you want to avoid the fact that the USA murdered a half a million children in Iraq and has yet to face any consequences whatsoever.
it's almost as if you are personally bothered that people actively remember that the USA murdered exponentially more people than Israel, and you're upset because I haven't called Israel a war criminal state yet.
It's almost as if you are trying to avoid people pointing out that the USA should deal with it's own war criminal activities before pointing a finger at another country.
I'll be very blunt, as I belive that may be the only way you might understand:
You marked yourself as a USA citizen.
As a USA citizen you have No moral leg to stand on and point fingers at ANYONE.
Maybe you should focus on your own fascist country first.
alkbch@reddit
LOL. Maybe you should read our conversation again from the start. I am not bothered whatsoever by what you wrote. I acknowledged the atrocities committed by the USA, and agree the people responsible should be held accountable too; send George W Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld to prison.
You have no moral leg to stand on when you do not denounce a genocide as it is happening.
Ali_Cat222@reddit
Before Justin Trudeau left as prime minister, he announced that he was a Zionist. Mark Carney's in now and he's definitely not, so I'm hoping things get better on our end in Canada. Also, I love how it's "we can't have pictures of starving children, but we're fine with killing them basically." Wtaf
TheGreatJingle@reddit
If you think Mark Carney thinks Isreal should be eradicated or dismantled you’re an idiot .thats what it means to be an antizionist. Id bet lots of one’s carney has the same basic opinion of most people in the west. Israel should continue to exist but it’s gone to far . But also it’s not our problem meh
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
What's wrong with abolishing an ethnostate that's built on stolen Palestinian lands?
FlemethWild@reddit
Who has the authority to abolish a state?
Also—Jews are native to the Levant and have continuously lived there. You can be pro Palestinian and want to hold the Israeli government accountable without advocating the erasure of the state.
NotActuallyIraqi@reddit
There’s Jewish and Arab communities living in the Levant for millennia. It doesn’t mean others have the right to illegally immigrate (as Zionists did).
Emperor_Kyrius@reddit
They didn’t migrate illegally. They legally purchased the land from the Turks and settled on it. The Arabs who migrated at the same time as the Jews, aka the ancestors of most Palestinians today, did migrate illegally.
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
Do you really think a Urkanian or Polish person has the right to steal someone else land because they had an ancestors over 3000 years ago?
Tw1tcHy@reddit
At least as much as the many descendants of Arab colonizers who have far less direct lineage to the region, yes. Your logic is so shortsighted lmao, you’re basically saying Israel just needs to hold on for a few centuries and it’s all good then.
Simlin97@reddit
Genetic studies have shown that modern Palestinians are about an 85% genetic match to human remains of Bronze Age Canaanites (i. e. the people native to Palestine). Palestinians technically aren't even "Arabs", apart from the fact that they speak Arabic. Their culture, cuisine, genetics, history, even dialects and languages (Aramaic, Syriac, etc are still being spoken in some Palestinian communities) are native to Palestine and very distinct from "proper" Arabs in countries like Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Kuwait, etc.
Some guy from New Jersey who converted to Judaism two years ago has literally zero connection to the land, yet according to Israeli law he has more of a right to live in settlements in the West Bank (settlements that are literally founded by evicting Palestinian communities and also violate international law).
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Genetic studies have also shown high genetic matches for Jews, even Ashkenazi Jews. They have also shown that a sizable minority of Palestinians are not native to the region whatsoever and are absolutely the result of migration and descend from the Arabian peninsula. Saying they’re not technically Arab like the Gulf countries applies to literally all other Arabs as well, you realize that right? Algerians, Iraqis, Sudanese, Moroccans, and more can all point to their own distinctions. Palestinians themselves overwhelmingly consider themselves Arab, share in Arab cultural and political movements, and have been integral to Arab nationalism for a century.
Yes I think 99.99% of people will agree this is bullshit and blatantly so, but this also describes a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of all Israelis. There’s definitely a need for pressure to be applied for such a terrible law to be repealed or amended, but issues like this tend to go on the back burner of discourse when first and foremost the right of Jews to be in their homeland sucks up all of the oxygen in the broader conversation.
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
Can you provide any sources for your claims? If a French person also considers themselves European and Caucasian, does that make them less native to France? People can have multiple ways to identify that does not lessen their connection to a distinct culture and land.
If we care about native people and their ancestral land, why do Native Americans only have a tiny fraction of North American land? Shouldn’t you be fighting to put all non-indigenous people into camps or reservations so that the truly native people, who were also targets of centuries-long genocides and colonialism, can have safety and self-determination? Seems an odd contradiction, there.
Also, according to the Torah, Jewish people are not indigenous to the Levant, right? They arrived after other civilizations were established and then tried to wage war and commit genocide to take the land that they claimed was given to them by God.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Sure, there’s countless studies published on this topic. What claim do you want a source for specifically?
I agree 100%. I’m personally not concerned with the whole “native” argument, but if someone wants to make the dumb argument that Jews have no business being in Israel based on heritage, I’m going to refute that dumb fuck logic. Someone being “indigenous” has no inherent right to a land, this is a very recent construct some people decided should be the case for various arbitrary reasons.
First, the Jewish people are absolutely indigenous to the Levant. They are ethnically, linguistically, and culturally rooted in the ancient Israelite and Judean populations who lived in the land continuously for centuries before the Roman in the early 2nd century. Hebrew is a Canaanite language, developed in the region itself. Jewish religious practice, identity, and tradition were born from the land, not imported into it.
Second, the Torah’s account of conquest (e.g. Joshua’s campaigns) is not a historical document in the modern sense, as I’m sure you’re well aware. It’s a religious tradition, filled with metaphor, moral lessons, and theological framing. If we’re going to use the Torah as literal history, then we’d also have to accept that the Israelites were in Egypt, that God parted seas, and that manna fell from heaven. You can’t cherry-pick from myth to make a political argument while ignoring its context as religious allegory shaped over centuries.
Third, archaeological consensus doesn’t back up the “foreign invader” idea. The Israelites emerged gradually from Canaanite society, not as outsiders conquering from abroad. They weren’t some nomadic tribe invading an established civilization, they were a hill-country offshoot of the very people already living in the land. Indigenous by every standard used to define the term.
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
The claims that you made in your post suggest actual sources, not your interpretation of sources. I would like to know who did the research and what journals they are published in. Perhaps links to those studies.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
No, they don’t “suggest” actual sources, I’m literally saying there are reputable, published studies in major scientific publications, like Nature and more.
On average, even Ashkenazi Jews cluster genetically closer to Druze, Samaritans, and other Levantine populations than to their European neighbors, so yes, that is my argument, correct. You can read more about that here or here or here or really many other published studies that all reach the same conclusion.
If you want studies about Palestinian genetic ancestry, you’ll find that on average a Palestinian Muslim has about 75% Arabian admixture whereas the Palestinian Christian population have around 90% Levantine ancestry. There are distinct and noticeable admixtures coinciding with the Islamic expansion 1,300 years ago. Hell you can also just look at census data from 1922 to 1931 and see the massive increase in the Arab Palestinian population in 9 years due to the swell in immigration created by new economic opportunities.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
What genetic matches do Jews have to Canaanites?
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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Ever heard of the right of self-determination?
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
To begin with, you will notice that you never ever hear of a state’s right to exist outside of the context of Israel. This is because this right does not exist. People have a right to self-determination, but this does not mean that a state -any state- has an inherent right to exist. After all, there are thousands of ethnic groups in the world and not even 200 countries. States either exist or they don’t, states and nations are not static entities, as they often change in form, parameters and even names over their history. Could you imagine the argument that former Yugoslavia had a right to exist? Who would have bestowed this right? Who would have upheld it, and how?
From the get-go, this is a ridiculous question that has absolutely no legal backing in international law or international relations. You’ve never heard, for example, of Belgium affirming the right of Canada to exist as a state.
To reiterate, the goal of this question is not to contribute to dialogue, but rather to shut it down. This is because there has been a concentrated effort on part of Israel and its advocates to conflate Israel with the Jewish people as a whole. When you combine this with long history of persecution of the Jewish people, any hesitation in answering this question in the affirmative is enough to paint you as a bloodthirsty antisemite. This is further aided by the typical settler anxiety shared by beneficiaries of settler colonialism everywhere, where any alternative to the current oppressive matrix of control is framed as genocidal in intent. We saw this particularly in South Africa, where it was argued that full equality would mean the complete destruction of not only South Africa as a state, but the annihilation of the white minority entirely.
But let us try and imagine this question in any other settler colonial context: Could you imagine asking any indigenous nation on Turtle Island whether the United States or Canada have a right to exist? Keep in mind that these states could only exist through the destruction of indigenous life, language and culture.
It doesn’t feel right, does it?
How could anyone demand that these nations rubber-stamp their own dispossession with approval, and lend it legitimacy?
If we naturalize the idea that nation states are inherently legitimate, and champion the false notion that they have a right to exist anchored in international law, then this restricts our ability to critique any country’s foundations. Suddenly, acknowledging the Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the attempted ethnocide of the Palestinian people in any meaningful way becomes an infringement upon Israel’s fabled right to exist. By “meaningful” we are not speaking of mere empty acknowledgment that functions to signal a superficial settler regret while continuing to profit off the dispossession of the natives, but a material acknowledgment that aims to be the first step in righting historical wrongs.
A conveniently one way street:
This question also buckles under its own weight if applied consistently and taken to its logical conclusions. Would this also not grant Palestine a right to exist? Why is it then, that we never hear about the Palestinian right to exist? Especially when you take into account that the majority of Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from their homes and scattered all over the globe. And as if this scattering was not enough, there are serious efforts to define them out of existence by denying their descendants any claim to Palestine or being a refugee.
Are Palestinian refugees unique?
After all, Israel could only be established through the destruction of the majority of Palestinian society and its appropriation, surely this clashes horribly with the Palestinian right to exist?
Once again, you never hear of this because it is not an actual right, and falls flatly in the exclusive domain of Israeli Hasbara.
As professor Salaita so succinctly wrote:1
“I am happy, eager even, to affirm the right of Jewish people to live in peace and security, wherever that may be, a right all humans deserve in no particular order of worthiness. But I won’t ratify Israel’s bloody founding or its devotion to racial supremacy. Ultimately, when Zionists demand that you affirm Israel’s right to exist, what they really seek is affirmation of Palestinian nonexistence.“This is the central and implied message of this question. It is about legitimacy. It is true that Palestinians do not hold any power or sway compared to Israel, but the one thing they have is legitimacy, and the power to withhold it from the settlers who crave it.
Despite the bravado, Israelis, even if on an unconscious level, know that they will never belong in the region unless they are legitimized by the very people they had to dispossess to build their settler state. They will always be seen as outsiders until the indigenous people validate them. Over 100 years later, and this has yet to occur, and it will not be occurring any time soon. The Palestinian Authority and Arab tyrannies can normalize all they want, but the Arab street has been adamant. There is a reason why the Israeli and US embassies are some of the first buildings to be protested when any kind of popular mobilization occurs.
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
Who gets to have self-determination? How do they get to express it?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Read the UN Charter. Self-determination is the right of all peoples.
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
Except Palestinians? Because they are currently being denied self-determination by Israel and the US. According to that same UN charter, Israel is committing war crimes by protecting and recognizing settlements in occupied territory in the West Bank. By the current laws of the UN charter that Israel has agreed to, Israel would likely never have existed. No other state has been established by taking land from the current, native inhabitants (Palestinians), by way of a colonial power (Britain), and given to refugees that had survived a genocide in Europe. It would be considered illegal and against the self-determination of the people who lived in the Palestinian Mandate.
Or is there some subsection I am unaware of?
Ali_Cat222@reddit
I just said he didn't stand for that, so I don't know where you're getting that from.
To me, anti-Zionism is not wanting to eradicate the Palestinian people with ethnical cleansing and a genocide...
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Ok that’s fine.
Being a Zionist means you support the state of Israel existing. That’s it. That’s the real definition and is what political leaders mean when they say that.
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
When political leaders say they’re Zionist, it’s often shorthand for supporting Israel’s right to exist as a state—but also for endorsing its policies, its military funding, and its “security measures,” no matter how brutal they may be. That’s why the term has become so polarizing, it’s no longer just about the idea of statehood, but about support for the actions of that state, especially in relation to Palestinians.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
No it’s not.
Anti-isreal propagandists ,not just critics plenty of very good criticisms of Isreal without advocating for genocide , have conflated those two meanings successfully . Because their goal is the abolishment of the Isreali state and removal of its people
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
Nah, I'm anti Zionist and I define it as being against Israel with its current constitution. I wouldn't support the removal of its people. I want a one state solution where everyone with a claim to the territory can live there with equal rights and security.
The meaning of Zionism and anti zionisms don't have anything to do with removal of people. Although I'm sure there are anti Zionists who would wish to do that. I'm not one of them.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
So you are for the eradication of a state and don’t think people should be entitled to their own. That’s fine, you just also want the abolishment of the UN and are against its founding principals
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Russia: “if you don’t support our invasion of Ukraine, you are for the eradication of the Russian people.”
jaywalkingandfired@reddit
Well, the original claim is that the existence of Israel itself is illegal and that the state of Israel should be abolished.
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
France has gone through a dozen constitutions in two centuries. By some definition “France was abolished” each time.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
There is a key difference here though:
Russia wants to annex parts (and frankly, probably all) of Ukraine and markets people citizens.
Israel wants to annex Gaza and most of the West Bank but deny all Palestinians there citizenship. It’s openly discriminatory, but that’s not surprising given it’s an apartheid state.
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
You're using a loaded word for no reason. I want a new non religious constitution that protects the rights and security of all the faiths of people with a connection to the territory. The other stuff you mention... Irrelevant.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
So you’re a zionist lol.
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
Zionism is specific to Jews being a ruling majority in Israel (just ask the Israeli Supreme Court about who has self-determination in Israel). Democracies should not be choosing their voters based on ethnoreligion. People should not have to accept Israel as a Jewish state to gain citizenship and representation in government.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Every country is built about being a country for its own people. Israel is less Jewish than most countries are their base ethnic or religious group.
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
Israel was not built on being a country for its own people. It was formed by the UN taking land from a colonized (by Britain) group (Palestinians), and giving it to Zionists and Jewish refugees (from Europe and also Arab nations who largely opposed the violation of Palestinian rights and unfairly targeted Jewish people) in order to make up for the persecution and genocide of Jewish people in Europe. It was also done because Britain was tired of dealing with Zionist terrorist groups and that conflict in Palestine (labeled terrorist groups by the UK and US at the time - Levi, Irgun, and Haganah).
TheGreatJingle@reddit
There have always been Jews in Palestine. The land has also been continually colonized since the Arabs conquered it. We would end up just bickering about how long a group has to be there to count .
If I remember correctly the Jewish population got the worse of the original partion deal and took it. Jordan and Egypt and Syria tried to divy it up and lost
Ivaninvankov@reddit
Which is a lovely dream scenario, but in reality, we know exactly what happens any time Jewish people are a minority in an Arab country.
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
Doesn’t seem to be working that well in reverse, either. Frankly, Jewish people and many, many other minorities and disempowered groups have faced discrimination and violence in the past. Jewish people faced genocide, pogroms, discrimination, and displacement more often in Europe than in the Arab world. Since then, the most dangerous and deadly place for Jewish people has been Israel. Arab countries are not the problem.
Ivaninvankov@reddit
Wdym in reverse?
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
A minority of Palestinians and Arabs living in a Jewish majority country (including occupied territories).
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
Neither side are fit to run a state of their own. They need grown up help.
slicerprime@reddit
I hope you will take this as the honest question it is.
What you describe sounds good. But, do you think it's realistic? Even if all the evidence was there to suggest those implementing such a government were sincere, is it realistic to think such an inclusive construct would be accepted enough and long enough by those involved on the ground for it to succeed?
Believe me, I mean it when I say it sounds good. I'm just wondering if - given all the players, history, and very particular location - it's not sadly the textbook example of "Nope. Never gonna happen".
I mean, it's not just that it's prime historical real estate for religious nastiness on its own. It's probably the one place that can still drag up sectarian religious(ish) angst in otherwise secular parts of the world that would weigh in and still support opposing zealous groups who would still want the acreage for themselves. In other words, a lot of people, players and groups would have to buy in for such a thing as a secular "Israel" (or whatever the name) with equality and religious freedom for all to work in a place seemingly designed by history to sink it.
So...could it really work? And I don't mean in theory. I mean, could it work given all the actual realities?
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
Look at Ireland, Rwanda, the US post-Civil War, and other states split by cultural, religious, and historical differences. Yes, it is possible.
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
Use Jerusalem as an example. It takes a firm hand of security but it has worked for decades when the correct approach was taken and the policing has been non political. It's not some fairy tale wish when you see how Jerusalem works. It won't be without crisis. That's why a new constitution would be necessary. And outside security guarantees from neighbors and beyond.
And it only has to be better that the current set up, which requires regular massacres of innocents to maintain itself. That why I came to the conclusion that Zionism is a failed project that had its chance, and turned out to be a bad idea for a state, like communism did.
slicerprime@reddit
For me, Jerusalem is a particularly unconvincing example. In fact, I'd use it as the best supporting evidence possible for my skepticism of a functioning secular version of Israel. It's not unified in any way. Its division is quintessentially religious and solidly secular all at the same time. People who don't trust or like each other live in two halves of the same city and only tolerate the situation because neither is willing to give up what is holy ground for both, It was a necessity born of and still perfectly representative of the ongoing inability of the same groups we're talking about bringing together in a secular union to do precisely that.
I just don't think either side is likely - at least not any time soon - to suddenly see secular as the road to happiness and togetherness. And, stripping religion from the documents isn't going to fix anything.
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
That's why it's the perfect example. It's actually three religions (two who can make trouble) sharing a city that they all have a strong claim to. It is working. There are flair ups. But they are living there and there is security.
Also, the idea of Jerusalem being any other way is unthinkable outside of distant history..it's a shared city. And some of its operations could apply to a one state solution where the same "we are going nowhere, this is our land" attitudes apply. And the same need for a balanced rules based security and policing apply.
The two state solution is too messy at this stage and frankly I don't have trust that it will prevent more war.
But anything you do in these lands is extremely combustible because of the need to have access to Jerusalem and israelis "going nowhere" and Palestinj3ans "going nowhere". It's something everyone has to accept as a cornerstone of a future security. Neither side is going to leave.
We actually wasted years in northern Ireland over that question. When both sides eventually accepted the other side was always going to stay, and could never be forced out, it just seems wasteful to continue fighting and a peace deal followed.
Even with trump's intervention, everyone else knows the Palestinians are not going anywhere. And it the are not being given their own state, which I think at this stage they are not, they have to integrated as full citizens into a state that isn't set up for their rivals. The Israeli constitution has to guarantee that Jews and Palestinians are equal and offer protections for minorities that the entire court system and state can operate to.
Icy-Delay-444@reddit
Avoid any sharp objects or lit flames when Palestine loses the war it started. You might hurt someone in your raging meltdown.
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
What?
Icy-Delay-444@reddit
Almost forgot. Avoid any alcohol when Palestine loses the war it started. You might hurt someone in your drunken meltdown.
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
What do you mean???
Icy-Delay-444@reddit
D'awww, you're really upset Palestine is losing the war it started aren't you? :(
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
Are you ok?
Icy-Delay-444@reddit
"Wahhh! Why sniff is Palestine sniff losing the war it started?! Wahhhh!!!"
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
There’s a real distinction between those advocating for equal rights and an end to occupation, and those pushing for erasure. Lumping them together obscures legitimate criticism and makes honest dialogue harder.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Yes it does make conversation harder. That’s why the erasure group has ,at least online, successfully lumped the two together. The biggest antizionist action successfully taken was 10/6. The previous was the Yom Kippur War.
When a politician or someone from the Middle East says they are a Zionist or not a Zionist they mean the erasure versus not erasure.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s people like you who are lumping them together and trying to make the conversation harder. You are then complaining about anti-Zionists being all for “killing Jews” or similar nonsense.
Advocating for human rights for Palestinians is often met with cries of “you want to strip self-determination from Jews!” as though it’s a zero sum game. Both Palestinians and Israelis, Jews, Muslims and Christians, can coexist in one non-discriminatory state. But most Israelis and most Zionists don’t want that.
And the proof of what I’m saying is the West Bank. It’s hard to argue with 55+ years of occupation and ethnic cleansing. Actions speak louder than words, and Israel’s actions are quite clearly conveying its intent.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Ask Lebanon how that went for them. Hell ask the British . Ask Rwanda .
History has shown it is very very hard for groups to be forced to getter and live in peace. No one would enforce it and Lebanon would be a pretty way it would turn out. .
Is their Isrealis that wouldn’t want to live in peace? Yeah for sure. I haven’t been defending them here except to say they like all peoples should have a country. Despite what the propagandists here like to act like . It’s a two way street though. And Hamas , Isis , Hezbollah are all proof of that.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I agree. Yet you support it in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. Rwanda should have been a wake up call to the international community. They slept through that call and they are pretending they are sleeping through this genocide.
The Palestinians are not occupying Israelis. The Palestinians haven’t set up apartheid. It’s pretty obvious who the aggressor is unless you gre up on Zionism and Jewish supremacism.
I haven’t been defending them here except to say they like all peoples should have a country. Despite what the propagandists here like to act like . It’s a two way street though. And Hamas , Isis , Hezbollah are all proof of that.
jaywalkingandfired@reddit
What country do Jews have aside from Israel?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Are you saying that Jews can’t be citizens of any other state? That they should be ethnically cleansed from everywhere and only allowed to live in Israel?
You realise that you’re spouting textbook antisemitism, right?
TheGreatJingle@reddit
How many Christian’s are still in Lebanon?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Might I suggest doing your own research?
TheGreatJingle@reddit
I did it not a lot compared to before.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Is that metric or imperial “not a lot?”
TheGreatJingle@reddit
How about they make up a substantially lower amount of the total population than 60 years ago and are no longer a majority
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
And it’s all totally irrelevant because Lebanon isn’t Palestine, no matter how much you want to make it part of Israel.
You haven’t addressed a single point I’ve made.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
I mean I’m providing an in region example of how integration with no control can be very damaging.
If your standard is one to one exactly I mean sure. But that’s an impossible standard to meet
But to take your original points I support a palestinan state just not at the expense of the Isreali state existing. That does not create a minority rule issue and doesn’t create another Lebanon or Rwanda which is a real potential issue.
I also never said Hamas or Hezbollah justify ethnic cleansing. But we must recognize they are also on a jihadist ethnic cleansing mission themselves. They are not simply freedom fighters trying to secure a land for their people. You think it is valid to ignore this among them and other Palestinian groups because they are not in a position to exert that will. A will they openly have.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Most Palestinians don’t want a shared single state either, you forgot to mention that part lmao! It’s one of the few things both sides largely agree on!
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
At this point the most effective “anti-Israel propaganda” is simply an accurate translation of the statements of Israel’s government officials, because they are advocating for genocide.
Nothing wrong with the removal of the Palestinian people, right? Keep in mind as well, these Israeli nationalists don’t distinguish between the genocide of jews and the creation of a binational Jewish-Palestinian state (likely or not to succeed) because their concerns are power and control.
iLegionLord@reddit
As opposed to an accurate translation of the Palestinian government?
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Oh look, it's the likudnik here to call me a "Hamas supporter" for saying that both Israel and Gazas governments are evil bloodthirsty terrorists.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
No anti Isreal propaganda is conflating not liking its policy or its leaders with wanting the destruction of the nation
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
Israel has the same right to exist as did Apartheid South Africa.
You would absolutely, 100% have been one of the defenders of Apartheid South Africa, and a detractor of people like Mandela.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Just to clarify, you’re just saying you want to see a new government with different policies in Israel, not the actual dissolution of the state?
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
In an ideal world, yes. But just like Apartheid South Africa would never have a non-racist government, it's hard to see a world where Israel has one that isn't predicated on the violent oppression of Palestinians. It's basically caked into their notion of a nation-state. The last guy who tried to move away from that, Yitzhak Rabin, was assassinated by an Israeli conservative.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
Existing as what?
Do you similarly believe that Nazi Germany had a right to exist? Or apartheid South Africa? Or the Jim Crow south?
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Existing as a state that is primarily for Isrealis in the same way Germany is for Germans or Egypt is for Egyptians
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
That slogan sounds so familiar…
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Countries exist for their people and every ethnic group deserves the right to self determination.
Jews Germans Palestinians it doesn’t matter
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
I bet this comment made more sense to you in its original German.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Can’t speak German. Just English and a little Arabic.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
No Hebrew? Really?
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Aww the racism comes out.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Are you just upset that I guessed right?
TheGreatJingle@reddit
Nah just happy to see the reality of anti Isreali people show itself,
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Very convincing. You’ve totally suckered everyone reading reading this in!
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
🤣coffee everywhere, man! And it’s your fault.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
There's absolutely zero reason for every ethnic group to have a country, or any for that matter. That's some fascist rhetoric bs about people not being able to coexist.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
I mean if you think that way fine , but never use the UN to justify an arguement. That’s like one of the main bases of the UN
StewieNZ@reddit
Until Israel can prove it can exist without stealing land and murdering innocent people why would people support it?
OpenMindedFundie@reddit
No, Zionism originally meant Jews had the right to create a Jewish state. It never specified where, which is why African and South American lands were also considered. Building it in its current location was already a somewhat racist idea as it meant displacing existing residents, and modern Zionism has no interest in giving them equal citizenship given the numerous laws that block Arab Israelis from equal rights.
your_red_triangle@reddit
missing the most important part of the foundation of zionism
"at any cost" even if that means murdering every child that lives on that land currently, which we can see being attempted by the terrorist state.
zionism is genocidal ideology that should not exist.
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
I think most people in the west think that there is no way Israel will allow itself to be eradicated or dismantled without showing the world how many nukes they have stockpiled. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't cut all ties to Israel, but trying to destroy a country that is led by insane fanatics with nukes is a bad idea.
reddit4ne@reddit
He didnt say that at all. Just said Markey is not a Zionist. There's a difference between not bieng a Zionist and being an anti-zionist.
Its important to state because the Hasbara folks have made it precisely so you cant just think Israel has a right to exist, you have to specifically buy into the Zionist claim of a right to exist as an ethnostate with '3000 year old' links to the land.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
If you think Isreal should continue to exist you are a Zionist. That’s the definition of the word. Theirs zionists who run the gambit on opinions of the Isreali government and the peace process.
reddit4ne@reddit
This is wrong on both a technical and practical level. On a practical level, the word Zionism has been hijacked by the far right in the way anti-semitism has been hijacked and abused. Its to the detriment of Jews and zionists everywhere, but I dont see too many Zionists actually pushing back very hard on the hijacking of the word Zionist by aggressive expansionist Zionists who are dreaming of a Greater Israel. Again, to their own detriment.
Zionism predates Israel. Zionism is the belief specifically in a homeland for Jews, an ethnostate for Jews. Before the turn of the 20th century, there were Zionists who believed in setting up a state possibly in places as far as Ughanda.
Israel was the name given to the emerging state by its founders in the 1940's, partially in order to give it religious significance. To this day, however, there are some Orthodox Jews who refuse to recognize Israel precisely because the name Israel to them refers to a biblical state that is supposed to emerge with the coming of the messiah, not before it.
iLegionLord@reddit
Hopefully Israel holds out for 4 years until another Trudeau comes along ❤️
Ali_Cat222@reddit
What? You are a Palestinian who wants a man who said he was a Zionist aka proud of what Israel was doing to Palenstine? And who thinks that Israels colonization of Palenstine was a good thing, and who supported the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians? I'm sorry I don't know what to say to that...
iLegionLord@reddit
What? You are a Jamaican who wants a man who said he was a Hamas aka proud of what Palestine was doing to Israel? And who thinks that Palestine’s colonization of Israel was a good thing, and who supported the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Israel? I'm sorry I don't know what to say to that...🙏
Ali_Cat222@reddit
I don't think you know what a Zionist is.
iLegionLord@reddit
I don’t think you know what is a Hamas terrorist either.
Stopping aid trucks so Hamas doesn’t steal the aid and prolong the war is a valid but brutal tactic. Keep crying
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
No, it’s a war crime and collective punishment.
Ali_Cat222@reddit
Ah yes, looks like hamas is committing even more terror than Israel /s 🥴 I don't even believe you are a palestinian if you think committing this is fine to your people. Hamas can be terrorists and that's not okay either but these numbers also speak for themselves.
shahzebkhalid25@reddit
your a pathetic zionist using that flag flair as a mockery arent you
Mystery-110@reddit
He isn't a Palestinian. He is an Israeli hasbara agent. They regularly use flairs of other countries since they are ashamed to publicly use the flair of their own country.
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Exactly. That grotesque double standard… “don’t let them starve, just make sure they die quickly enough that it’s less of a PR problem” says everything about how this war has been rationalized. It’s not about protecting life or upholding international law; it’s about optics, alliances, and keeping the “wrong” images off the evening news. The humanitarian line only gets drawn when public opinion starts to shift.
Trudeau’s “I’m a Zionist” declaration was such a gut punch. Carney not aligning with that ideology gives a sliver of hope, but it’ll take real political will to undo the damage, especially after Canada’s record at the UN and its silence in the face of massive civilian deaths.
Words won’t cut it anymore. We need a foreign policy rooted in actual human rights. Not whatever this selective, morally bankrupt calculus has been.
2dudesinapod@reddit
Remember when our local hasbara were claiming Israel is not blocking aide?
Now their leaders reached the point of bragging about blocking aide.
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Absolutely. It’s wild how quickly the narrative collapsed. Just weeks ago, we were being gaslit with “there’s no humanitarian crisis,” “Israel isn’t blocking aid,” and now Netanyahu himself is basically admitting that yes, aid was deliberately restricted; and only loosened because allies were threatening to pull support over the optics of mass starvation. Not morality. Optics.
It’s gone from denial to open admission, and somehow that’s supposed to be framed as leadership? They’re not even pretending anymore. And the local hasbara folks? Dead silent or scrambling to pivot. Because there’s no spinning it when your own officials are on video treating food and water like bargaining chips.
Tiennus_Khan@reddit
Also the argument that "the war will end the instant Hamas releases the hostages" that was parroted by Israel’s supporters for 18 months and was proven to be completely wrong when Hamas made the proposal and Netanyahu refused
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Exactly, that moment stripped away whatever illusion there was that this war was only about hostages. For months, the narrative was weaponized: “If Hamas just releases the hostages, the bombing will stop!!!” It was a simple, emotionally compelling justification that allowed so many to sidestep the brutal reality on the ground. But when Hamas did propose a ceasefire deal involving hostages, and Netanyahu turned it down, it became crystal clear: this isn’t about the hostages anymore… if it ever truly was.
Netanyahu himself has said, repeatedly, that his goal is “total victory,” which now translates into the ongoing destruction of Gaza’s infrastructure, displacement of its population, and what increasingly looks like an effort to make life unlivable in the Strip. Hostages have become a tragic footnote in that larger agenda, used more as political leverage than a humanitarian priority.
If the war could have ended with a deal that included their release and didn’t, what does that say about who’s really prolonging the suffering? About whose political survival depends on keeping this war going?
Monterenbas@reddit
That’s an interpretation, the fact that Hamas believe that they have leverage over Israel and that they can still extort some concessions, for the release of the people they kidnapped, seems utterly delusional and disconnected from reality.
At this point, they’ve become Netanyahu’s useful idiots.
jaywalkingandfired@reddit
Nah. It was very apparent that Israelis are gearing for mass destruction and mass killings with every public opinion poll and with every article reporting on their mood, not so say anything about the officials. Doing shit like targeting NGOs such as the World Kitchen, doing 3 strikes on it's clearly marked vehicle and claiming it was accidental all 3 times, soldiers making tiktoks of throwing flashbangs into a place where civilians sheltered, killing off unarmed half-naked hostages provided enough evidence of Israeli bloodlust being barely restrained.
Netanyahu and his supporters have been dreaming of genocide and displacement for decades. This isn't a sudden shift in policy or goals.
Monterenbas@reddit
Lol, a Russian critizing Israel, that’s rich…
Emperor_Kyrius@reddit
They’re not on the same side. Russia supports Hamas. Hamas has called Russia one of its closest allies.
Mystery-110@reddit
Maybe Hamas knows that Netanyahu will continue the war even if they release all the hostages
Monterenbas@reddit
Oc they know, a children could understand that Israel would never let them continue to rule Gaza, like nothing happened.
That they truly believed that, would be beyond delusional.
Mystery-110@reddit
Will Israel agree to the creation of a Palestinian State if Hamas disarms? If not, then why should they disarm? Just to give Israel a free land grab in Gaza like they already do in the West Bank? The fact is Netanyahu or any major Israeli leader will never willingly agree to the creation of a Palestinian State with or without Hamas.
And you guys repeat this Oct 7 hasbara as if everything started on that date. More than 100 Palestinians (including women and children) were already killed at the hands of IDF between 01.01.2023 and 06.10.2023 before Hamas fired a single shot. How are you gonna justify the killing of those 100 people? How are you gonna justify IDF pouring concrete inside Wells to stop Palestinians from fetching water from it? IDF closed dozens of Wells in the West Bank in 2023 alone before Hamas fired a single shot, how will you justify this? Are you going to blame Hamas even for this?
Monterenbas@reddit
Why would the Israeli gov make any concessions to Hamas, if they believe that they can disarm Hamas by force anyway? Hamas cannot offer something that’s already out of their control anyway, that’s not how negotiations worked.
That would spare the life of a sizable number of Palestinians.
I’m not seeing their « resistance » currently preventing any land grab, on the contrary it seems that they provided Israel with the perfect excuse, but maybe we’re watching different reality.
Yes, Hamas surrender would stop the bombing tho.
Not everything, but situation in the Gaza Strip was still factually 100% better before Oct.07, than after.
I’m not sure how can anybody pretend the contrary and what would be your cost to benefits analysis, to still claiming that Oct.07 was a bright idea from the Palestinian side.
That’s not hasbara, that’s just common sense
So because the situation was bad before, it’s totally fine for Hamas to make it thousands worse for the Palestinians, what’s the rationale here?
Mystery-110@reddit
So you're fine with Palestinians being killed as long as the rate is slow? At least now, the international community has seen the true nature of Israel. Those slow deaths weren't even properly covered by the mainstream media.
Monterenbas@reddit
Yes, I do absolutely believe that low rate of killing, while still bad, is still infinitely better than genocide.
Why would anybody believe the contrary is beyond me…
Great, I hope those tens of thouydeath were worth it. Now the international community have seen the truth and still does nothing. Great success!
iLegionLord@reddit
What proposal? That Israel surrendered unconditionally for the hostages? That proposal? You’re a joke
iLegionLord@reddit
Remember when the local Hamas apologists bragged about how international pressure would change things and now they brag about having 1 building standing?
Mystery-110@reddit
Why hasbara agents are so much ashamed that they have resorted to using flairs of their "enemy country"
jaynic1@reddit
People here have been using flairs as a way to mock the other side for months lol. I first noticed it when an Irish guy was rage baiting an Israeli with the Israel flair.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Probably got the idea from the Irish user here who flaired us as an Israeli months ago (and still is) and refused to change his when called out. At that point it becomes clear no one else gave a fuck about maintaining flair integrity, apparently. Definitely didn’t start with this dude however.
iLegionLord@reddit
Bingoooo, it makes the Hamas bots so angry! It’s funny
iLegionLord@reddit
Why Hamas agents are so much ashamed that they have resorted to using flairs of their "enemy country"
No_Macaroon_9752@reddit
I had someone argue with me that actually Palestinians are overweight and obese at very high rates (without providing sources, but obviously any data was from before Oct 2023), so they can’t be starving.
sieurblabla@reddit
Their leaders are bragging about blocking aid, bragging about killing everyone alive, bragging about raping, bragging about wanting to displace the Palestinians, etc. And yet some people are still defending the zionists, finding excuses for them, projecting on hamas as they are also bad guys, saying israel is doing its best in a very difficult situation, voting for israel in Eurovision, etc.
If tomorrow, Natanyahy says on TV clearly, word for word, we don't care about the hostages, we want to displace all the Palestinians and kill those who stay, adult and children, some will still defend Israel and find excuses.
Many are definitely and completely hopeless.
jonassalen@reddit
Even Germany, which has a massive historic debt to Israel, is changing stance today.
I hope it will change something. But I'll never forget how so many counties, including my own, first let this happen for 1,5 years. The 100k deaths in Gaza and the west bank are also the responsibility of the western world.
iLegionLord@reddit
Return the hostages then
waxxsinn@reddit
Palestine has multiple times accepted to return the hostages under a ceasefire that Israel has always broken or denied. Israelis have literally been mad at the USA for managing to release the american-israeli hostage.
Also, Israel has something like 4000 Palestinian hostages (some children, too) so i don't think your propaganda is quite effective. PS i think your flair might be a little wrong
iLegionLord@reddit
Nope, there was a ceasefire and Hamas didn’t agree to extend it. Ooooo you just admitted Palestine = Hamas
Also what Israel has are called prisoners, you know, people who committed crimes?
PS I think your flair might be a little wrong too
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
Fact check: Israel refused to negotiate into Stage Two of the ceasefire
waxxsinn@reddit
Im from Italy, which as far as i know is in europe.
Sure, i'm gonna believe that those hundreds of children all committed more crimes than just the one called "being a palestinian"
Quite convenient on how one side has hostages and the other has prisoners, one side has terrorists and the other has freedom fighters.
How do you lack in critical thinking? Does propaganda really fry brains this badly?
iLegionLord@reddit
Quite convenient one side’s stated goal is to destroy all Jews but the other side just wants to be left alone
How do you lack in critical thinking? Does propaganda really fry brains this badly?
waxxsinn@reddit
Literally every statement by Netanyahu and the Palestinians confirms that this is total bullshit btw
iLegionLord@reddit
Lies, if you’re literate, they want their hostages back btw
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waxxsinn@reddit
Bezalel Smotrich: "Gaza will be entirely destroyed"
Netanyahu: "The population will be moved"(deportation and forcible transfer of civilians is literally a crime against humanity)
"Netanyahu said that “there is intensive and large-scale military activity in Gaza” and that the Israeli military was “moving toward full control of the entire Strip.”" Then he stated that the only reason why a famine should be avoided (they're already starving) is because he could lose international support.
"Families in #Gaza face unimaginable devastation. According to the Protection Cluster, 92% of homes have been damaged or destroyed, countless people have been displaced multiple times, and shelter is scarce." -the fucking United Nations
This seems like a weird way to say "we want to be left alone"
iLegionLord@reddit
Equating what Netenyahu said to what every Israeli wants is like saying what Sinwar wants is what every Palestinian wants.
According to you every Israeli is a genocidal maniac because of what Netanyahu says? So according you every Palestinian is a Hamas member and a terrorist
It’s only a weird way to say leave us alone because you are unable to understand geopolitics
Hit us once and we’ll hit back ten times as hard. So leave us alone. That’s what it means.
waxxsinn@reddit
Im sure many Israeli just "want to be left alone" but Israel as a country just wants total domination. Also, any Israeli that thinks this probably should think "Maybe my country should stop committing war crimes"
Understanding geopolitics doesnt make you think "yes, we need to starve babies to be left alone", what makes you think this is called "being a psychopath"
You have been hitting them for the past, like, 60 years? It didnt start Oct7, you know? Also is "starving babies" part of you "hitting 10 times as hard"? Quite an effective strategy if you have absolutely no humanity.
"aid in palestine is taken control by hamas, so we will just not make any food water or medicine enter gaza" is also such a good way of thinking. Imagine if a small part of the food actually went to the population, it would be terrible and it cant happen, at all costs. The babies MUST starve! Its just geopolitics
iLegionLord@reddit
Israel as a country just wants total domination like how Palestine as a country just wants total destruction of Israel?
Palestine and the other Arab states have been hitting Israel for the past 60 years too.
When 100 million jihadists want you dead, you can’t afford to trade 1:1, it can’t be hit us once we hit you once. It has to be hit us once and we hit back 100 times harder.
Starving babies is just your news media sensationalising stuff to farm rage bait engagement that you people suck up.
Want the war to end? Release the hostages, simple really. Spare me the outrage
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Well then Germany is free to come along and put Gaza under its protection, taking responsibilities for all the horrors comitted there.
There's a reason that when offered the territory, Egypt said "NO" and put machine guns on the border.
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
That reason is that Egypt refuses to be an active participant in the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population.
History has shown that Israel will never allow any Palestinian who departs to ever return to Palestine.
Today, their cabinet ministers brag about how they are going to destroy Gaza and expel all its inhabitants.
Enough with your dehumanizing of the people of Gaza. Shame on you and your ilk.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Oh right right, so it's ethnic cleansing if anyone else has the territory and their own people move in, but if Hamas wants to murder all the jews and take their stuff, that's "resistance" and "reclaiming ancestral land."
Y ou support the side that uses child suicide bombers, and think you're on the right side.
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
“Kill all the Jews and take their stuff”
Why do you keep accusing Hamas of doing what Israeli civilians are actively doing in the West Bank and in Gaza, sweetie?
Please provide evidence for your claims.
Meanwhile, Israel is intentionally starving two million members of an ethnic group their political leaders deny even exist. This is, under the Geneva Convention, an act of genocide.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
You side with those who strap bombs to children. You are not on the right side of history.
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Got an accusation that’s less than 20 years old?
You’re siding with the people who are actively committing a genocide. Not to mention, they are they last entity to carry out an act of genocide against Jews (specifically, 50,000 Ethiopian women).
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Dunno, got a claim to the land that's less than 80 years old?
fyodorrosko@reddit
One of the Nazis arguments was that Jews had either been forced to leave countries in Europe or had been directly persecuted by countries in Europe, and that this happening to a single ethnic group over a period of centuries couldn't be a coincidence.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Oh hey look, someone who has this big blind spot about Kuwait from 1989 to 1991.
Grotzbully@reddit
Nah fuck my government they will do jack shit.
I remember how they always said that we are the strongest supporters of the ICC, but with charges against Israel we completely changed our tune. Then our president visited them, shook their hands like everything was alright. Meanwhile we had those remembrance ceremonies about the concentration camps. Totally disgusting every time I think about them. Merz will do nothing
ROSRS@reddit
Germany has a complex about Israel. Because apparently they decided “never again” meant Jews only I guess
whater39@reddit
Germany has debt to Jews, not Israel.
AlexanderTheIronFist@reddit
Exactly! People can't let the Israelis change the narrative.
Grotzbully@reddit
Nah fuck my government they will do jack shit.
I remember how they always said that we are the strongest supporters of the ICC, but with charges against Israel we completely changed our tune. Then our president visited them, shook their hands like everything was alright. Meanwhile we had those remembrance ceremonies about the concentration camps. Totally disgusting every time I think about them. Merz will do nothing
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Germany’s historical debt is to the Jewish people for the horrors of the Holocaust, not to the political state of Israel or its government’s actions. Conflating the two has been used for decades to silence criticism, even when what’s happening is in direct violation of international law and human rights.
Being accountable for the past doesn’t mean turning a blind eye to new atrocities. In fact, it should mean the opposite: a commitment to never again allow state-sanctioned violence, ethnic cleansing, or the dehumanization of an entire population—regardless of who is perpetrating it.
Mundane_Molasses6850@reddit
i wonder if Western countries fear that any military strike against Israel will result in Israeli attacks on their own countries.
for me i wonder what would happen if the US, in a hypothetical dream world, had destroyed significant chunks of Israel's air force, which was the main perpetrator of the Gaza atrocities. What would happen? Would Israeli agents ever attack the US?
2dudesinapod@reddit
It’s called the Samson Option and also sometimes known as Epstein’s tapes.
Mundane_Molasses6850@reddit
i've heard of the Samson option but that's for if the whole country is about to fall, or at least a huge threat is present.
the US-Israel alliance is really bizarre. The Epstein theory is one of the better theories that explains how the Israeli tail wags the American dog!
unpersoned@reddit
It's the most one sided alliance ever. The US provides tens of billions in military aid every year, and in return, Israel interferes in US elections and dominates its foreign policy to an embarrassing degree.
I'm sorry, but I have to ask. What is the US even getting out of this? The US basically has to surrender its UN votes to Israel, and what does Israel even do to justify this alliance? Alright, so the country was just starting when Korea came around. Understandable. But they didn't help the US in Vietnam. No help in Iraq either. None of the two times. No help in Afghanistan.
US politicians will complain about NATO, and how they're not spending enough in their military, while happily throwing free F-35s and Abrams at Israel.
freeone3000@reddit
The US Evangelicals firmly believe that the state of Israel was foretold by biblical prophesy and is important for the return of the Messiah. Therefore, the state of Israel must be preserved at all costs against its enemies.
Additional_Ad_3530@reddit
It's called dispensationalism, here most evangelical missionaries came from usa, they almost always are from a charismatic denomination so you'll find Israel flags in evangelical churches.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
That's really not a significant reason why every administration has had near-unquestionable support for Israel.
freeone3000@reddit
It’s a huge, reliable voting block. A president can’t be a muslim (even the accusation was meant as propaganda!), a president can barely be catholic, abortion can never have a law protecting it, gay marriage can never have a law protecting it… US Evangelical beliefs shape a substantial part of US policy, foreign and domestic.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
And yes Democrats have been just as staunchly supportive of Israeli atrocities, even though they are not courting the Evangelical vote.
freeone3000@reddit
Of course they are! Everyone is! It’s the American cultural religion! 14% of democratic voters are explicitly evangelical — without them, they’d have zero chance of winning a national election.
StewieNZ@reddit
Arguably blocks the formation of a more powerful Arab state which may be less friendly to US interests in the Middle East, and is a disposable vanguard for US force?
unpersoned@reddit
Never mind that the general unfriendliness to US interests comes from its unconditional support for Israeli interests.
I'm not even saying to just leave Israel on its own. But come on, why does the US needs to suddenly become a doormat whenever Israel is concerned?
StewieNZ@reddit
The point I was going for was that Israeli interests are US interests (at least in the eyes of certain people in the US government), but they know it is unacceptable for them to express those interests out loud, so they just let Israel do it. It has the additional benefit that when the world finally makes it too unacceptable the US can just step away and leave the blame solely with Israel.
unpersoned@reddit
Oh, I see your point, I think. I just believe this is another short sighted policy in a long list of short sighted policies the US has had through the 20th century.
I don't think they can just step away anymore, without being associated with what Israel has been doing. It's too blatant.
StewieNZ@reddit
It is blatant, but America is convenient to forgive as well, for two reasons. One they are a big country with a big economy, getting rid of that it a large cost in order to hold the US to account, and two is the fact that forgiving the US means forgiving Israel's other supporters, which these other supporters will be keen on (in other words forgiving US means forgiving themselves). And of course not everyone will give, a reasonable minority won't, but enough people will if the US says and does the right thing in the future.
And maybe it is just short sitedness, but even in that case US can step away from these crimes a lot easier than Israel can.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
In any other circumstance, bombing a US Navy ship and machine gunning the lifeboats would be grounds for immediately ending an alliance.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I remember just before the Iraq invasion a lot of Israel supporters online were bragging that the intelligence about Saddam’s WMDs came from Israel. They stopped saying that once the US invaded.
2dudesinapod@reddit
Maybe, maybe not. Leaked US classified documents last year showed Israel maneuvering their nuclear weapons ahead of their strikes on Iran. It’s impossible say what a desperate Israel in its death throes will do.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Ukraine gave up their nukes in exchange for security guarantees. How's that working out for them?
DustyFalmouth@reddit
If they don't think abandoning our proxies will have blowback then they have failed to Remember 9/11. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't because the Israelis were dancing on 9/11
silly_flying_dolphin@reddit
You mean if the US destroyed their own airforce
SaneForCocoaPuffs@reddit
The wildest part about this to me is that Britain France and Canada might be taking concrete actions before Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Jordan, or Egypt.
moonorplanet@reddit
The Arab governments you mentioned act as essentially US vassal states especially when it comes to Israel.
SignificantAd1421@reddit
It's as if they donnt care and never cared after what happened to Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon after they took in refugees
Dry-Season-522@reddit
There's a reason Kuwait's not on that list.
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Part of it comes down to those Arab governments navigating complex internal and regional politics. They have to balance public opinion, relations with Israel, and their own national security concerns. Some of these states have quietly normalized ties with Israel in recent years, which complicates their ability or willingness to openly challenge its policies.
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Part of it comes down to those Arab governments navigating complex internal and regional politics; they have to balance public opinion, relations with Israel, and their own national security concerns. Meanwhile, some of these states have quietly normalized ties with Israel in recent years, which complicates their ability or willingness to openly challenge its policies.
On the other hand, Western countries, despite their often problematic histories and complicity, face more domestic and international pressure; whether from media, civil society, or their own political structures, to speak out on humanitarian grounds. It’s ironic and tragic that those with the most direct cultural and religious ties to Gaza’s people might be the ones least able or willing to take meaningful action, while countries with historical debts and political ties to Israel are pushing back, even if only rhetorically for now.
mschuster91@reddit
Come on, that's a wild stretch.
UNRWA is thoroughly and utterly compromised, it has been for decades, and the NGOs haven't ever been able to stop Hamas looting their aid as well.
I'm not sure if US PMCs are the definitive answer, but hell at least they aren't a "let's just continue what failed the last 50 years".
And for what it's worth, Bibi deserves to rot in a prison cell and his far-right goon(er)s as well.
LividAd9642@reddit
American PMC, lmao.
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Fair take on Bibi and the far-right goons, no argument there. But I don’t think it’s a “wild stretch” to be wary of replacing humanitarian orgs with militarized aid distribution controlled by a foreign occupying force and armed contractors. Even if we agree UNRWA has deep issues (and yes, serious reform or alternative channels may be warranted), the solution can’t just be “hand it over to PMCs with guns” and hope neutrality magically holds.
What’s at stake isn’t just logistics, it’s the principle of humanitarian access without coercion or military entanglement. Once aid becomes another arm of control, trust evaporates, and people on the ground suffer even more. You don’t need to romanticize the UN or NGOs to see that outsourcing basic survival to groups embedded in military operations is a dangerous precedent, especially in a war zone already teetering on genocide. If the new approach is just a shinier version of siege and displacement, then it’s not a solution… it’s PR.
You can acknowledge failures in the system without endorsing a solution that erodes trust and hands more power to those actively bombing the population they’re supposedly helping. Militarized aid isn’t innovation, it’s desperation masquerading as policy.
mschuster91@reddit
It's not like there is anyone else willing to step in for the corrupt UNRWA.
Europe, the most likely candidate, doesn't want to (and let's be real, it can't for the lack of an army as well as public support) get its hands dirty trying to prevent Hamas from looting aid. There's no chance in hell Israel will allow any Arab countries to do so either, and even if it would - not even Saudi-Arabia would be willing to send soldiers that get shot at by fellow Muslims, their population would riot. Southern America is falling for drugs, Africa is a hotbed of wars and has enough to deal with its own shit, Russia caused this entire mess in the first place via its proxy Iran (guess why Hamas did Oct 7th - to distract Europe and the US from Ukraine), India is busy with Pakistan and China has absolutely nothing to gain.
US PMCs are, for all the issues they bring with them (just remember Iraq) a convenient alternative for everyone. No dead soldiers in coffins that get a military burial so it's palatable for the American public, close enough to "allied forces" that Israel's population doesn't revolt more than they already do, and they come with the implicit threat to Hamas of "cause too much of the US and you'll find yourself in a mess so deep that even the IDF pales".
EH1987@reddit
So far looting of aid that's been going on has been done almost exclusively by unaffiliated armed gangs, and Israel helps these gangs by killing local security forces, police and other civil defense entities because they're part of Hamas' government.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-led-force-targets-gangs-looting-gaza-aid-convoys-2024-11-19/
https://www.npr.org/2024/11/20/nx-s1-5195597/heres-what-happened-in-gaza-after-biggest-looting-of-u-n-food-aid-in-recent-memory
cultish_alibi@reddit
Sorry, we can't allow you to have food because the people distributing it are corrupt. I hope you don't mind. Obviously you understand why that's okay. Hope you don't mind starving.
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Reducing the humanitarian crisis in Gaza to a geopolitical game of “who else is willing to get their hands dirty” misses the core issue: this isn’t about convenience or strategy. It’s about 2.3 million people being starved, bombed, and displaced while powerful states and actors weigh what’s most palatable for their PR or domestic politics.
Yes, the UNRWA has been under scrutiny and isn’t perfect. But to call it “corrupt” and dismiss it outright is dangerously reductive, especially when it’s one of the few lifelines Palestinians have had. As flawed as it may be, it still functions under international oversight and with a commitment to neutrality, something a U.S.-backed, Israeli-aligned PMC cannot claim, no matter how “convenient” they are.
The idea that Hamas’ October 7th attack was masterminded as some kind of Iranian-Russian 4D chess move to distract from Ukraine sounds more like speculative fan fiction than grounded analysis. Hamas’s motivations are rooted in decades of occupation, blockade, and violent repression; not some grand loyalty to Moscow.
And as for US PMCs being a solution? Come on. We’ve seen what happens when privatized military actors enter fragile regions. Iraq, as you mentioned, is a cautionary tale, not a case study to be replicated. Aid doesn’t become safer or more effective when you hand it to the guys with guns and no accountability… it becomes a tool of control and coercion.
Humanitarian aid must be neutral, needs-based, and guided by international law; not shaped by military objectives or political convenience. Anything less is not aid. It’s theater.
Killeroftanks@reddit
Ya that's why thousands of unrwa helped Hamas.
Wait no it was possible 7 people... Maybe....
As for American PMCs, they don't have a good track record unless you want warcrimes and things to get worse, in which case they do have a good track record for that.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s always interesting to contrast Israel’s accusations with their actions. They are pointing at UNRWA colluding with Hamas. What about the IDF colluding with Israeli settlers to destroy Palestinian villages and towns? There are a lot more than seven IDF soldiers pictured standing around watching settlers rampage across the West Bank day after day for years…
Killeroftanks@reddit
Also it skips over the fact Israel vets everyone unrwa hires, so either Israel's Intel org is so shit they didn't know a high ranking and well known Hezbollah official was hired, or knew of everything happening and let it happen anyways. It doesn't matter what you say, both options make Israel look bad, likely why all of the pro Israeli fucks never like talking about the vetting process, it makes them look stupid.
your_red_triangle@reddit
ZERO evidence of this besides Hasbara propaganda
iLegionLord@reddit
Return the hostages and this goes away, simple
sundaywellnessclub@reddit
Your leader opposed it. You must live a sad and miserable little life to be trolling.
Monterenbas@reddit
The concept of Rule, Law and Morality only hold meaning when they are based on equality.
Harsh truth of this world and its system is that when Money speaks Truth goes silent and when Power speaks even the Money takes three steps back!
Those who create the rules are often the first to break them. Rules are chains for the weak, tools for the strong. In this world anything good must be fought for.
The masters of the game are fiercely competing for resources while only the week sit idly waiting to be give a share.
Ivaninvankov@reddit
It's unbelievably sad. Neither Israel nor Hamas seem all that concerned with the Palestinian civilians.
Chance-Plantain8314@reddit
This is all talk. Things have gotten this far because the countries with the power to stop this have done nothing, or are actively complicit in it. The UK can "threaten" as much action as they want, it means nothing in the face of supplying weapons towards months of genocide
UnclePjupp@reddit
Not a fan of Hamas and how Palestine has been ruled but even I think that Nethanyahu are going into territories (no pun intended) that you can't come back from.
There needs to be a ceasefire, Palestina needs a third-party temporary government to help set up reparations, aid and able to hold democratic elections and return the remaining hostages for the country and to prevent Hamas from from gaining power again.
Israel needs to back off hard and remove Netanyahu and his pack from power and finance the rebuilding of Palestina.
And Im saying this as a neutral, not really a supporter of any of these countries.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Just because you don't support either governments doesn't mean you're neutral because the two governments are not the only thing that matters here. Meaning, you can support the people who are being killed and starved.
UnclePjupp@reddit
That.... is a fair statement, I'm honestly just kinda tired how old people can direct orders to take lives so easily.
One would think with everything we've been through that we should've learned how to TALK TO EACH OTHER.
But alas, here we are, and I'm honestly just exhausted with it? We seem to never learn. Putting people in power who craves for it only leads to this.
FederalSandwich1854@reddit
You are still being naive. The goal of Israel is to eradicate the population and you're talking about third part governments, reparations, & elections?
What needs to happen is Israel needs to be treated the same way Nazi Germany was treated when WW2 came to an end.
explicitspirit@reddit
I am not neutral in this conflict because IMO Israel is the clear aggressor and has been for decades, but you are absolutely 100% right.
Disaster1992@reddit
Can we all agree now that Israel is ethnically cleansing Gaza? Because you have zios running around here not even willing to admit this, which is the base line if you ask me.
Ghostofcoolidge@reddit
By what percentage has the Palestinian population fallen
Disaster1992@reddit
So when zionist officials clearly use a genocidal language by saying “there are no innocents in Gaza” and “we should destroy all of Gaza”, “no food should be allowed to go in”. We should show no concern because it’s all about the numbers. Let me guess you also look at genocide as a 2 step process, before and after.
Ghostofcoolidge@reddit
Not a number and not an answer to my question. By what percentage has the Palestinian population fallen?
Disaster1992@reddit
Your question is irrelevant to the topic
Ghostofcoolidge@reddit
It isn't. For some genocide/ethnic cleansing to continue having meaning, there must be a significant decrease of said population. If not, you're using the words incorrectly, either ignorantly or maliciously to arouse an emotional response.
So again, by what percentage has the Palestinian population fallen?
wewew47@reddit
Not true and this would constitute denial of the Srebenica genocide where 8000 Bosniak Muslims were murdered - their total population is well over 2 million, so a much lower per capita death toll than the current one in gaza.
If you agree the legally recognised srebenica genocide is a genocide, by your logic of only considering deaths, you must also consider the events in gaza a genocide. The gazan population has reduced by a higher percentage than the Bosniak population did.
Disaster1992@reddit
Instead of asking me this question repeatedly, how about you tell me how many innocent people do you think have died in Gaza over the past year and half and start making your point from there, if there is any.
Ghostofcoolidge@reddit
Because you made the assertion first. So are you going to produce numbers or what?
giboauja@reddit
I wonder if Hamas could unconditionally surrender to France. This could create a bulwark against Israel and get rid of Hamas, which is kind of what that country needs. I mean Hamas m.o is to keep fighting while their leadership is safely hidden away. They don't really care how many Palestinians die, Israel taking the whole strip does more to help their cause then actually creating peace.
combrade@reddit
Gaza is not Lebanon . There is no cultural ties with Gaza and France . France is almost paternalistic towards Lebanon but it also has been extremely proactive in getting Lebanon a ceasefire . Macron has also conducted private talks with Hezbollah and is in regular conversation with them .
Lebanon also has a Maronite population that is extremely supportive of France and France as well has an extremely active Lebanese diapora in France. Long story short, Lebanon and France have cultural ties .
giboauja@reddit
I just think Is Palestine switched official political ties from Iran to a sympathetic western power, that would blunt Israel. That only happens if Hamas goes. They're not like Hezbollah with an effective civil governing body. They have no interest in actually running Gaza as a government.
Still good on France for brokering a Lebanese ceasefire. Netannutjob is trying to speed run Israel's entire geopolitical agenda as fast as he can. So getting Israel to back off without a full disarmed Hezbollah is not easy.
Mystery-110@reddit
The ruling government of West Bank(i.e-the PA) is very supportive of Western powers specifically the USA and still the Palestinians of the West Bank bear the brunt of IDF time and again.
Agitated-Quit-6148@reddit
"Palestine" and "Palestinians" were cheering on 911 well before hamas was elected.
EH1987@reddit
So were Israelis, what's your point?
Molested-Cholo-5305@reddit
So?
dummypod@reddit
What do you mean "fighting while leadership is safely hidden away"? The three of their leaders are already dead, and one was on record fighting at the frontlines and he was found by pure coincidence.
As far as I see it, Israel got their Osama. They literally have no reason to continue this genocide.
giboauja@reddit
And yeah, Israel did eventually get to their military leaders. Historically they do run off to Qatar whenever violence really breaks out. The violence didn't stop this time and eventually Israel did assassinated them. So my critique is obviously outdated. Leaks seems to suggest they didn't expect the open war to last to long with Israel, or at least a full invasion would be blunted. Ultimately they misjudged the degree of support Israel would get from America concerning munitions.
The thing is I don't really expect anything from Israel, so the question is how to mitigate as much death as possible. Complaining about the evil of Israel forever isn't really going to do anything. A lot of it, to me, even sounds like its pro war. People refusing to even consider peace is a large reason why this conflict never ends.
So I feel like a full surrender to a Western power, that is sympathetic to Palestine, might be their best move. Israel seems to think they have full support to just take the strip. So they're not going to stop and western powers won't help if Palestine is aligned with Iran.
dummypod@reddit
The west is not sympathetic to Palestine. If they even have a tiny bit of it they would have stopped supplying arms a year ago. And how does "surrendering to the west" work?
Complaining about the evils of Israel doesn't work? Yea, I guess you're right because the west is evil itself.
Monterenbas@reddit
The west is as sympathetic to Palestine, as the rest of the world is to Ukraine.
Dunkleosteus666@reddit
This right here.
Tit-for-tat.
sieurblabla@reddit
Sorry, this is naive.
jonassalen@reddit
As I said in a different post, Hamas and Netanyahu are in a symbiotic relationship. They both need this conflict to stay in power forever.
I'm not saying your wrong, I'm saying your argument is also valid for Netanyahu.
The only difference it the force of power.
giboauja@reddit
I consider that a given. I just think people forget about Hamas's complicity sometimes.
jonassalen@reddit
Hamas did horrific things. No one is saying otherwise. no one is forgetting that.
But in comparison with what Israel is doing for the last 1,5 years that act is becoming a footnote.
Davidat0r@reddit
“Inadequate”?? “risked”?????
AintNoGrave2020@reddit
This guy has an international arrest warrant out for him. He’s not in hiding. He parades around proudly. Countries still welcome him with open arms. Heck, even Germany’s new Chancellor Merz said he won’t arrest him should he visit. And he is still. not. arrested.
It’s baffling but actually disgusting how we all can just watch while it’s so obvious how the West dictates what’s okay and what’s not and what can happen and what can’t.
RollyPollyZA@reddit
"Risked breaching international law". Are they kidding me with that!
JustEstablishment594@reddit
Anything short of a military response against Israel is not a response at all. Sanctions? Who cares while Daddy USA props them up.
reddit4ne@reddit
Im so sick of this guy and his vows. Every day in the news, his vowing to do something, and its always somehow involves violence.
Just one day ONE DAY, Id like to wake up and read, "Netanyahu vows to reduce Israel's carbon emissions. or "Netanyahu vows to improve health care for all Israel's citizens."
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
"Netanyahu vows to oppose genocide and the dehumanization of people or violence against them based on location, race, religion, or ethnicity"
heskaroid@reddit
The mods in this sub should have a principled obligation to just start banning people supporting this pathetic excuse of a "nation". We are talking a modern day Nazi Germany ffs. How many more articles like this do we until they read the room? There is no point in debates with these demons anymore.
VersionThat616@reddit
Nothing will happen same old statements will be said it’s a charade
silly_flying_dolphin@reddit
This is incorrect, Israel has been 'counting calories' that enter the strip since 2007.
https://visualizingpalestine.org/visual/the-gaza-diet/ https://imeu.org/article/putting-palestinians-on-a-diet-israels-siege-blockade-of-gaza
In other words, western nations remain as slavishly dedicated to US foreign policy demands as ever.
Anyone with a brain could have known that Israel was lying about this as they lie about every other aspect of the genocide.
This all vindicates the millions of people around the world who marched, demonstrated and called for a cease-fire since the first weeks of the assault up till now. We were right, they were wrong. The people in power do not deserve a shred of the people's trust and a price deserves to be extracted from them. Their crime: aiding and abetting genocide. First as history, second as farce: Chamberlain, the entire western liberal establishment 2023-25.
AdVivid8910@reddit
“The UN and international humanitarian groups who have brought food into Gaza since the war began have said they will not work with GHF” Bit of an odd decision if children are starving no?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
GHF has this annoying "no rockets and bullets" policy.
Leaky_gland@reddit
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