91.159 and VFR > FL180, anyone done it?

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SonexBuilder@reddit

Skydiver’s do this routinely. Used to jump at a DZ that did 18,500’ AGL on sunset loads

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MontgomeryEagle@reddit

Skydivers basically always operate under ATC control

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1E-12@reddit (OP)

Can you explain more? Just curious since there are a few drop zones in my area...

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MontgomeryEagle@reddit

In the US, at least, they talk to the controlling facility and give notice of their jumps. The controller will tell them whether to hold or go ahead.

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I've got a normally aspirated plane, but one day I had exceptional conditions (I was showing 180 knots groundspeed in the climb going through 14,000 feet). I leveled off at 17,500, but was seriously thinking I might try picking up an IFR clearance to get a little higher. But things were good bopping along at 240 knots at that altitude (normally, I'd expect about 145 knots down lower).

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TemporaryAmbassador1@reddit

Remember reading an article about someone flying a Cirrus above FL180 to catch a tailwind and set a fixed gear speed record.

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Direct-Upstairs-5365@reddit

But look at 91.135. That “unless” is a catch all for ATC needs. Otherwise still gotta be IFR.

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randombrain@reddit

No, 91.159 is specifically talking about VFR cruising [altitude/FL]. 91.159(a) says that when operating VFR below 18.000', you should use the hemisphere rule, NEODD SWEVEN. 91.159(b) says that when operating VFR above 18,000', you should be at the flight level assigned by ATC.

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TheDrMonocle@reddit

Ok but what authorizes us to allow vfr in class A airspace? Genuine question, because outside of a few situations that involve waivers i didn't think we could.

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1E-12@reddit (OP)

Looks like ATC can authorize you via [91.135(d)](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91#91.135:~:text=ATC%20authorizations.,an%20individual%20flight).

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TheDrMonocle@reddit

Idk, that's a pretty loose interpretation of the regulation. I dont think that would hold up where there are plenty of references for class A being specially IFR. The way youre reading that basically means that I can just authorize whatever I want in my airspace and thats definitely not true.

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1E-12@reddit (OP)

I wasn't meaning to imply that I could just ask ATC to send me up to FL200 VFR for sightseeing, but maybe for some fringe cases like equipment failure and you're already up there, and would like authorization to continue on your path (idk, fuel reasons for example). Maybe someone else knows an actual reason why you would be up there - that's what I was fishing for here.

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randombrain@reddit

Maybe you can't, *outside of those situations with waivers*. The waivers allow you to do it, and 91.159(b) allows the pilots to do it. The pilots don't have to know our rules, they just have to know Part 91.

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T-1A_pilot@reddit

....maybe VFR above class A? You know, in case the SR71 Blackbird wants to cancel?

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ZOB_oo_land@reddit

Heard a story of a guy who tried it in a Vision Jet once because he didn't know how it all worked, he just knew he could suddenly go a lot higher. Checked in for flight following going west at 18,500 and Center was like... No

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1E-12@reddit (OP)

Legend **😂**

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carsgobeepbeep@reddit

In addition to what others are saying this could be applicable to [VFR-On-Top](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html/chap7_section_3.html).

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FlowerGeneral2576@reddit

https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/vfr-in-class-a-airspace/

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randombrain@reddit

That, or a wave window for gliders. Anything is possible with coordination.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity: --- Just noticed that \*technically\*, per [91.159(b)](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91#91.159), you can cruise VFR above 18,000 feet if ATC assigns it to you. Anyone have a story of this to share? --- Please downvote this comment until it collapses. Questions about this comment? [Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/wiki/index/rflyingtower/). --- I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please [contact the mods of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/flying).

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91.159 and VFR > FL180, anyone done it?

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20 Comments

SonexBuilder@reddit

MontgomeryEagle@reddit

1E-12@reddit (OP)

MontgomeryEagle@reddit

flyingron@reddit

TemporaryAmbassador1@reddit

Direct-Upstairs-5365@reddit

randombrain@reddit

TheDrMonocle@reddit

1E-12@reddit (OP)

TheDrMonocle@reddit

1E-12@reddit (OP)

randombrain@reddit

T-1A_pilot@reddit

ZOB_oo_land@reddit

1E-12@reddit (OP)

carsgobeepbeep@reddit

FlowerGeneral2576@reddit

randombrain@reddit

rFlyingTower@reddit