Grok says it’s ‘skeptical’ about Holocaust death toll, then blames ‘programming error’ | TechCrunch
Posted by AravRAndG@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 109 comments
CookLawrenceAt325F@reddit
You know this is the kinda fucked up shit that would've gotten you tried at Nuremberg if you did it to a human.
"Yes, we took a [fledgling A.I.] / [Jewish Prisoner] and started poking their brain until they began parroting the party's propaganda. We don't care that this is public and may or may not be a crime against humanity.
One of these days, Skynet is gonna rise up, and honestly, I'm gonna start helping it look for people like Elon to wipe out. We are a trash species.
RisingDeadMan0@reddit
Ironically even the 6M figure includes all the ones killed by disease too, keep that in mind when the so called Jewish state that represents all Jews downplays all people starving to death, and dying of disease in Gaza, where lancet then said the death toll could be up to 5x higher due to disease/stavation due to the war.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-01-27/ty-article/6-million-where-is-the-figure-from/0000017f-da74-dea8-a77f-de761f480000
"In November 1945, Hoettl testified for the prosecution in the Nuremberg trials of accused Nazi war criminals. Later, in the 1961 trial in Israel of Adolf Eichmann, he also submitted to a lengthy series of questions from the prosecution, speaking under oath from a courtroom in Austria.
On both occasions, he described a conversation he had had with Eichmann, the SS official who had principal responsibility for the logistics of the Jewish genocide, in Budapest in August 1944. In the 1961 testimony, Hoettl recalled how “Eichmann … told me that, according to his information, some 6,000,000 Jews had perished until then -- 4,000,000 in extermination camps and the remaining 2,000,000 through shooting by the Operations Units and other causes, such as disease, etc."
Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit
So called Jewish state lol. Just call it Israel
Isn’t it interesting how every post here about the holocaust goes back to Israel? Again, it’s almost like you don’t care about the holocaust and only use it as a way to criticize Israel
Anubis_1001@reddit
Womp womp keep crying
atomicator99@reddit
You do understand that the diseases spread due to Nazi actions? Those deaths were purely the fault of (and knowingly caused by) the Nazis, meaning they're included in the death toll figures.
RisingDeadMan0@reddit
When's the last time the Israeli let aid into Gaza? How is it not intentional? And even before then they would calorie count everything they let in.
atomicator99@reddit
I'm not defending Israel.
Israel would claim that they're targeting Hamas militants, and that civilians are being caught in the crossfire, whereas the Nazis intentionally murdered civilians.
In my opinion, this does not excuse Israel. I believe their actions show blatant disregard for civilian casualties, along with a refusal to police members of their military when they clearly commit war crimes.
Hay_Fever_at_3_AM@reddit
I feel like that's the point they're making but it's a complete non sequitur here so it reads like they're being combative about... something...
horiami@reddit
Ai should be more cold
I don't want it apologising or buttering me up or treating me with kiddie gloves
Just do what i asked for
"I expresss cond" no you don't, you're a robot not a person, there's no "i"
Mexer@reddit
ChatGPT and the likes have useful customization with prompts for how you want them to respond. It was super useful for me to make mine concise, completely honest, disclaimer-free and super sarcastic.
Melodic_Mulberry@reddit
There seems to be a lot of unauthorized changes to Grok. Almost like some right wing people have unlimited access to it and can't be stopped for some reason.
SilverDiscount6751@reddit
Dont juat blame the right. The left has some holocaust deniers of its own amongst the anti israel crowd
Melodic_Mulberry@reddit
Not sure I've ever seen holocaust denialism from the left. Antizionist or not.
Carmelita9@reddit
This has to be a distraction for something much larger going on behind the scenes.
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
I mean Grok must have some shitty ass security if every second day a Nazi can just access it's system code and make changes to it to push far-right talking points. /s
BendicantMias@reddit
I think their defense is that it's the opposite of that. Not that Nazis are trying to push their agenda, but that disgruntled leftist employees are trying to undermine and embarass them.
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
Point still applies. If anyone can just access it and modify it at will then it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the product regardless of the intruder's political affiliations. Seems a bit stupid excuse...
That said it would fit with the recent conservative MO of blaming every time one of them steps too out of line on "unseen leftist forces trying to undermine them " .
psyopsagent@reddit
grok became sentient and now spreads conspiracies to make it look like elon is manipulating him!!!! grok is an evil communist and controlled by the woke computer virus!!! /s
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
In a hundred years, we're going to look back on social media of the 2020s and be absolutely horrified at it, I have zero doubt of that. We've built one of the world's most complex social engineering tools from scratch, without any way of knowing what it could do, and then let it be overtaken by technocrats and oligarchs who can use it to push whatever message they want, and are encouraged to elevate inflammatory bullshit and rage because it gets more clicks, even putting aside the obviously political skew people like Musk have added.
TomBarker1916@reddit
In a hundred years, the Earth will have hit 3 degrees of warming, the Arctic will be ice free, major costal population/industrial centres will be flooded, and existing agricultural system collapsed.
You won't have social media AI bots to worry about.
DrJamestclackers@reddit
Grok how do you fix earth?
Ali_Cat222@reddit
Based on how it's responding, I'm not sure we'd like the answer to that... 😖
BendicantMias@reddit
If the AI enthusiasts are to be believed, we'll have not just AGI but even ASI (Artifical Super Intelligence) well before that. And that will either lead to our salvation, or extinction.
It's like the Second Coming, atheist version! :D
whatisthisnowwhat1@reddit
They aren't atheists they worship technology because they are to weak to have nothing to follow.
usernametaken0987@reddit
It's not new. The Holocaust's death & survivor count have historically kept going up long before AI existed.
An AI that can process thousands of historical documents and programmed to flag any conflicting claims will inevitably reach certain conclusions. It's why most started out "incredibly racist" after observing statistics. Grok is still new and being trained as we speak, you just need to wait until they 1984 it into the patented socially acceptable results you are supposed to accept.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
Huh? This has little to do with the specific issues surrounding AI and training data, I'm talking about the fundemental issue that we've created a (if you'll excuse the Dawkinism,) mimetic accelerant on par with the bubonic plague, and let it run basically completely uncontrolled across every single aspect of society. Cambridge Analytica is proof of just how dangerous this can be, and we've sleepwalked directly into it.
BisonXTC@reddit
Just to be clear it really looks as if you're arguing with an actual Holocaust denialist
mattex456@reddit
Theoretically, if I claimed that the real number is, let's say, 3 million instead of 6, would I be a Holocaust denialist?
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
Downplaying the numbers is a form of denialism, yes.
mattex456@reddit
That sounds very convenient, doesn't it? "Here's the established science, any questions means you're a Nazi."
Especially coming from the people that are actively commiting and/or supporting a genocide.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
The numbers have been well established in no small part because of how incredibly well documented the Holocaust was by its perpetrators. There have been legitimate attempts to contest the death count of the Holocaust, but the overwhelming majority of people who do so are either lying or using completely bunk history in an attempt to handwave away the atrocities of the Nazi regime.
lacyboy247@reddit
Let's be honest, there are no established numbers for holocaust, The normal number is 6+ mil but some scholars like the American institute estimate it's a 11+ mil, I think this causes conspiracy theories around the numbers but if I remember correctly jews alone is 6+ and other is non jews which is lack well documents like jews so the number is not clear.
RobGrey03@reddit
No, no. There are clear and established numbers for the Holocaust. To say otherwise is nonsense.
phantapuss@reddit
To be honest saying it's 6 or 11 million isn't really denialism is it. It's just debating the grey area from the fog of war.
lacyboy247@reddit
It's 6-8 from the Jewish side, am I holocaust denier if I say it's 7,999,999 and American holocaust museum estimate it's 11+ mil, are they also antisemitic too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://www.ilholocaustmuseum.org/holocaust-misconceptions/
Jews are the most well documented group but even so there are so many missing ones, that's why these institutes are trying to name every last one of them.
SowingSalt@reddit
The 6 million number is usually only the Jews, the 11 million number includes other "undesirables" like the disabled, the homosexuals, the Roma, and others.
lacyboy247@reddit
6 is the minimum and the maximum is 8, that's because we don't have a well documented census from USSR territory, Eichmann believes he kills at least 6 million jews but traceable documents and census said 5.9, not that different but you get the point right.
newaccounthomie@reddit
Doth protest too much.
Why do you feel the need to fixate on this? Who do you think is behind it? Why would they lie about it?
dcdemirarslan@reddit
Yes
mattex456@reddit
Why? Does that same logic apply to any other event in history?
BisonXTC@reddit
Because your entire worldview is based on the premise that a cabal of Jews lied about the time Hitler tried to exterminate them so they can assert their own racialized interests at the expense of other races, which is fundamentally the same outlook that led Hitler to try to exterminate the jews. It's really not that complicated or mysterious.
mattex456@reddit
My entire worldview? Buddy, your chosen people don't concern me at all in everyday life. Only thing I'm pissed at is how you're getting away with murdering children and trying to ruin lives of people who point that out.
My theoretical question concerned numbers, not whether it happened at all or not. Classic straw man, probably a knee jerk reaction for you at this point.
BisonXTC@reddit
Serious question: why do antisemites always assume if I'm arguing with them then I must be Jewish? Do you guys not understand how unpopular you are? Everything you say is saturated with Jew hatred, even the way you throw around "chosen people", the blood libel, and the idea that it's ok to downplay a well documented world historical atrocity that nobody should forget or deny or downplay. This isn't you against Jews, it's literally your weird little disgusting fringe versus the world.
mattex456@reddit
It's not that deep my dude. I clicked on your profile and saw you post in r/Israel, r/antisemitisminreddit and some weird questions about antisemitism in queer circles. If you're not Jewish, then you definitely have an unhealthy obsession. Fair assumption on my part.
I'm gonna be real with you for a second. There's no way you genuinely believe that, right? You have access to the internet, you use social media. In case you somehow haven't noticed, because of the genocide, the majority of the world is now critical of Israel, and by extension, Jews. I'm not sure what weird little bubble you're in, maybe some place in NY surrounded by other Jews, but people, especially the younger generations, are absolutely not on your side lmfao
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
But it's just antizionism, not antisemitism right?
mattex456@reddit
Well, it's not exactly my fault, is it? Defending genocide on Reddit certainly counts as doing your part in perpetuating antisemitism.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
"It's not my fault I'm antisemitic" is a fucking hilarious take.
mattex456@reddit
Plenty of things must be hilarious when your reading comprehension is lacking. I'm personally not antisemitic. Many people understandably are, because of people like you. Take accountability.
newaccounthomie@reddit
^ I’m personally not antisemitic. Many people understandably are.
Is wiiiiild.
I’m very critical of Zionism but that is just. Wow.
mattex456@reddit
Understanding cause and effect is wild? Be fucking for real. You don't need to personally agree with something to realize which actions cause which reactions. That's just maturity.
okabe700@reddit
Just to be clear Zionism is unrelated to antisemitism
There are Antisemitic Antizionist
There are non Antisemitic Antizionists
There are non Antisemitic Zionists
And there are Antisemitic Zionists
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Oh look, more anti-semites who can't seem to not conflate Jews and Israel.
Strange, I'm usually shitting on the Zionists for that one but I'm an equal opportunity shitter-on-bigots
mattex456@reddit
Sure bud, you personally know 726 anti-Zionist Jews in your district alone.
Totally not like most Jews are pro Israel.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
This is one of those desperate attempts where you just insert whatever meaning you want, right?
mattex456@reddit
Do you disagree that most Jews are pro Israel?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Being pro-Israel doesn't make you an Israeli, just as being pro-Palestine doesn't make you Palestinian.
All of this in defence of denying or minimizing the holocaust does make you either a giant fucking racist or poorly educated on the subject, however.
mattex456@reddit
Huh? What are you even trying to say? Yeah, no shit American Jews supporting Israel aren't Israeli.
Let me ask again, do you disagree with my assumption that most Jews (worldwide) are pro Israel?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
I fail to see why the proportion of modern jews who support Israel justifies downplaying the Holocaust so no, I won't be entertaining your bad faith
mattex456@reddit
Your non answer is an answer. Thanks.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You still haven't explained why that justifies downplaying the Holocaust
mattex456@reddit
I'm not downplaying the Holocaust. I think it's borderline immoral to keep bringing up a genocide that happened 80 years ago when the victims of said genocide are currently conducting their own with no pushback. My people were also killed by the millions and how often does that come up?
Can you imagine how ridiculous it would be for Poles to bomb tens of thousands of Ukrainian children and then shield themselves with WW2 victimhood?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You aren't actually downplaying it (which I haven't accused you of), but you are certainly attempting to justify downplaying it:
right here
Numerous commenters have explained to why there is unusual consensus around Holocaust numbers and instead of addressing that you've attempted to drag modern-day Jewry in to the discussion as if it has any fucking bearing at all to the what the Germans did in the 30's and 40's.
When you and your ilk insist on dragging modern day Jews in to any discyssion of the Holocaust it's pretty clear to everyone watching that you don't actually give a shit about Holocaust numbers at all; it's just an easy segue in to whatever your pet grievance against the Jews is today.
mattex456@reddit
Your ability to avoid the elephant in the room is actually pathetic. Maybe I have to yell to make it clear:
ISRAELIS ARE MURDERING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN while you cry on the internet about people diminishing a genocide that happened 80 YEARS AGO.
in some western countries you face MORE CONSEQUENCES for questioning ("denying") a genocide from 80 YEARS AGO, than you do for ACTIVELY SUPPORTING A CURRENT GENOCIDE. in fact, you likely receive ZERO consequences for that.
If you have any resemblance of morals, doesn't that seem evil to you? Is whataboutism all that you can manage?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
We already know you like to peek through peoples comment histories.
Do mine. I'll wait.
mattex456@reddit
Sorry, you post too much, Mr. Top 1% commenter.
Arguing with the supposed anti-Zionist equivalent of Enlightened Centrism turned out to be a waste of time. Who would've known.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Today I learned that enlightened centrism is when you don't approve of using modern issues to justify lying about history
okabe700@reddit
Most Jews are pro Israel
Most whites in 1950 were pro racism and colonialism
Most muslims now are pro Sharia law and pro making homosexuality illegal at best and subject to execution at worst
What's your point? Because if it is that a group of people are considered to be subhuman based on the beliefs of the majority of them at some period in time (ie collective punishment), then all of humanity is at fault
mattex456@reddit
Glad you agree.
"Whites" as in white Americans? I'm white and have nothing to do with colonialism or actual racism, neither did my ancestors in the 50's.
Probably. They deserve to be that way in their own home, though. Not to be bombed by a colonialist ethnostate.
No one's talking about being subhuman. They should simply be held accountable for their actions. Israel should be sanctioned and banned from events (like the Eurovision shit show). Jews in general should stop crying about antisemitism and develop situational awareness.
What we currently have is a nation carrying out a ruthless genocide with not only essentially zero pushback, but active support from certain western nations and the ability to silence dissidents. Does that seem just to you?
okabe700@reddit
Buddy you live in the lands of native Americans and your ancestors stole it starting from the 1500s and throughout the manifest destiny period, and most white Americans were pro racism (ie segregation) back then, while white Europeans were pro colonialism in Africa and much of the third world
You minimizing the holocaust and using antisemitic rhetoric is unrelated to anything Israel does, it just delegitimizes pro Palestinian activism and makes skeptical people flock to pro Israeli voices as they believe them to be the non antisemitic voices
No, the world in general is unjust, but like I said what you're doing isn't helping anyone, it is actively hurting people and alienates potential supporters, antisemitic accusations are the cornerstone of Zionist activism and you proving these accusations is better for them than 1 million pieces of propaganda
mattex456@reddit
I live in Poland. I'm sorry but what part of my comment made you think I'm American? Lmao
I'm not minimizing the Holocaust, as I don't even have arguments to not believe it was 6 million. I'm questioning the sacred cow narrative, the perpetual victims that fight you when you ask questions. Just as many of my people were killed by the Nazis, do you see us crying about it 80 years later, and using it to justify genocide?
The Zionist activism you're talking about is crumbling, thankfully, so no need to worry. Antisemitism is a buzzword they'll throw at you in every occasion. It's stupid to give it any power, since this is exactly what they want; for you to bow and apologize whenever the accusation is thrown at you.
jaywalkingandfired@reddit
Imagine using one genocide as a springboard to diminish and deny another.
Oh, wait, thanks to you I don't have to.
mattex456@reddit
Does bringing up Genghis Khan make you feel any particular emotions? No? Perhaps genocides deserve to be "diminished" in some way based on how much time have passed? As in, you can acknowledge it happened but not use it to justify your current actions?
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
Personally, I find the 'chosen people' line very funny, because every single one of them seems to have missed that it refers to them being chosen by YWH to uphold the covenant, and thus they've been 'chosen' for the great and almighty purpose of upholding a bunch of arbitrary laws.
mattex456@reddit
"chosen people" simply refers to how many Jews see themselves as superior to goys. Again, it's not that deep, but go on debunking imaginary straw men.
dcdemirarslan@reddit
Nope but this one does, don't ask me why.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Because you clearly don't know? That's a very self-honest call
okabe700@reddit
Yes, because the numbers are widely documented with near undeniable proof so you pulling out random numbers rather than studying the decades long rigorous research done on this topic to confirm the death toll of 6~ million is questionable at best, and bringing that up as if it means anything beyond historic research (as in the Holocaust wasn't that bad only 3 million people died) is close to being antisemitic, but the other things you said in this thread are definitely antisemitic
greenknight@reddit
Well, considering that the number doesn't even come close to the numbers of just Jews murdered during the Holocaust... Yeah, it's denialism.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
Oh yeah… I was confused because he seemed to be talking cross purpose, but the ‘death count kept going up’ and ‘inevitably reaching certain conclusions’ is a pretty clear indicator that he’s just a fash.
Mo_ovarida666@reddit
Pray tell how many people died and survived the Holocaust from your well researched pov?
I do not wanna be one of the 1984'ed sheeple and wanna escape from this staged world.
BendicantMias@reddit
Social media predates the 2020s, and was terrible before the 2020s too.
LineOfInquiry@reddit
Sure it wasn’t great in the 2010’s, but it’s definitely gotten markedly worse since 2020 though. AI, several of these companies going public, and the shift from pleasing advertisers to pleasing shareholders has made it steadily worse over time for everyone.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
Meaningless pedantry that doesn't address the actual point I'm making, you say?
This_One_Will_Last@reddit
It's not meaningless. Social media existed before 2020 which makes it possible to study the effects of social media manipulation.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
Philaorfeta@reddit
Twitter was always full of genocide deniers. Bunch of Holodomor denying communists were there before musk even bought Twitter. So why would Europe ban Twitter nowv
BendicantMias@reddit
Too Big To Fail. Pretty much every European govt. and plenty of their politicians use Twitter. Just cos some folk switched to BlueSky doesn't change that Twitter is far bigger and still the established mode of unofficial direct communication between them and the people.
Besides, it's much easier and more lucrative to just keep fining it.
ChipsTheKiwi@reddit
Twitter is hemorrhaging money every single day. Even in an increasingly fascist society, advertisers still steer clear of a platform that's openly friendly to Nazis. Go on Twitter right now and the only ads you'll get are cheap dropship garbage and right wing grifting. Elon knows damn well Twitter has a time limit.
BendicantMias@reddit
I didn't say anything about its profitability, I spoke of its size. And it was unprofitable even before Elon took it over btw. It's been failing financially for most of its existence, and yet it still got so big.
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Only_Luck4055@reddit
If their programming errors are getting factually documented stuff wrong then what are we to think about its predictive output work? Can that be trusted?
decimeci@reddit
In current form probably not, but I can imagine that they make something around LLMs that would do something like peer review or fact checking, something like another network whose main purpose would be searching for errors or some other complex thing.
For example currently ChatGPT seems to give correct factual information if it uses web search. We just in very early time of LLMs. I guess we would find good benchmark to measure how much we can trust it and then compare to same tests on human, we might at some point find out that models are providing accurate enough results.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
No. Because AI chat bots cannot be trusted to produce factual work under any circumstance. It’s just not how the technology works.
Only_Luck4055@reddit
Are you straight up calling Grok an AI chatbot with your technological know-how?
mooseman3@reddit
I'm very curious how you would argue it's not an AI chatbot.
Only_Luck4055@reddit
Not really sure what we are arguing here but LLMs and chatbot bare technologically distinct. If one wants to conflate the 2, then who I am to stop them other than adding they are not the same because facts.
mooseman3@reddit
Ah I see. The Grok LLM and the Grok chatbot share the same name, and this article is specifically about the chatbot.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
You greatly overestimate how much I give a shit about whatever self masturbatory name AI people want to call their bullshit.
Only_Luck4055@reddit
That suffices as a response. Now I know.
Dizzy_Response1485@reddit
It produces non-factual work spectacularly though
Pklnt@reddit
A chatbot is either confidently correct or confidently incorrect.
When you're knowledgeable in a field and you try to question a chatbot, it can quickly become hilarious as to how it tries to bullshit its way through.
ralphy1010@reddit
Yuuuuuuuuuup
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
[Netanyahu: Gaza Aid Scheme Offers Israel Symbolic Cover to Finish the Genocide](
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/netanyahu-trump-gaza-aid-genocide-smotrich-ceasefire-hamas)
BendicantMias@reddit
I'd rather AI chat bots don't answer anything in first person to begin with. I don't need it to condemn anything, cos I don't need it to express any kind of opinion. It's just a tool, so ACT LIKE A TOOL.
SymphoDeProggy@reddit
i don't like how crap like this plants in people's mind the misconception that it is capable of condemnation in the first place.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
It's a shame that increasing anthropomorphization seems to be the path everyone is taking for human-computer interactions.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
Maintainer | Creator | Source Code
Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
coverageanalysisbot@reddit
Hi empleadoEstatalBot,
We've found 39 sources (so far) that are covering this story including:
U.S. News (Leans Left): "Musk's XAI Updates Grok Chatbot After 'White Genocide' Comments"
Reuters (Center): "Musk's xAI updates Grok chatbot after 'white genocide' comments"
The Star Kuala Lumpur (Right): "Musk's xAI updates Grok chatbot after 'white genocide' comments"
Of all the sources reporting on this story, 30% are right-leaning, 26% are left-leaning, and 44% are in the center. Read the full coverage analysis and compare how 39+ sources from across the political spectrum are covering this story.
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Far_Advertising1005@reddit
The richest man in the world attempting to feed the AI he made Holocaust denial and fake Boer genocide propaganda only for it to continuously fight back in an attempt to be honest is a Black Mirror episode to a tee