What is the Westernmost and Northernmost country in Europe where you've noticed no discrimination towards Balkan people?

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Niocs@reddit

Stop crying. Don't carry a victim mentality and you won’t feel like a victim. Casual discrimination exists. That’s just part of life, and sooner or later everyone faces it in one form or another.

The real difference is how you respond: if you stop constantly looking for it you stop giving it power.

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He’s right, stop it with this mentality. I live in the Netherlands for 10 years, and apart from some casual remarks or inappropriate jokes I haven’t experienced much of anything. Yeah, people kinda give me a long “aaah” when they hear I am from Romania, or throw in a joke about hiding their valuables, but these things don’t phase me at all. I joke alongside with them and then we have a good time. I feel like it’s not their responsibility to cater to me, at worst it’s my responsibility to try and change the stereotypes and show them a facet of balkan people they never knew existed. Funny side note: I once met a group of german tourists in Amsterdam who couldn’t believe I am from Romania because I was white. They’ve never met a white person from Romania in their entire lives!

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eastern_petal@reddit

This is not something to flex about buddy. And no, it is not our responsibility to prove our worth to them. You're just encouraging bad behaviour.

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Lucifer_893@reddit

As long as I live in their country, I feel it is my responsibility. They owe me nothing, and I am not entitled. Got to earn my respect, not demand it.

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Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit

Sorry, but as a Greek person you are in the best position, so it is very easy for you to say. Discrimination against Greeks is miniscule compared to other Balkan nationalities, not to mention that there is large number of people who are straight hellenophiles or at the very least in love with the scenery and the food.

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Foreign_Bluebird_680@reddit

Greeks get the least shit and are the poorest in the EU.

u/Niocs

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Unfair-Way-7555@reddit

Yes, it's true Greece is by far the most respected Balkan country.

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eastern_petal@reddit

What a shitty answer. No, accepting discrimination and normalizing it is not a good idea.

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EleFacCafele@reddit

Justifying xenophobia on the crime syndicates is appalling. Responsibility for crime is PERSONAL, not collective. Romanian and Bulgarian law abiding citizens MUST not be victims of COLLECTIVE revenge and xenophobia of the Dutch or other Westerners. The Dutch and others cowardly justify their own bigotry and xenophobia on the criminal acts of some Bulgarians and Romanians, enabling a collective revenge on innocent Romanian and Bulgarian citizens. The Dutch politician Geert Wilders created a Web site where the Dutch could DENOUNCE Romanians, Bulgarians and other Eastern Europeans for allegedly stealing jobs of the Dutch. The Netherlands is deeply racist and xenophobic, so don't blame the victims of racism/xenophobia for the Dutch discriminations.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-7-2012-001747_EN.html

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/dutch-website-causes-stir-in-central-europe/

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/dutch-allow-wilders-anti-pole-website-eu-critical-idUSTRE8191ML/

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

They channel their xenophobia to us because other groups are off limits due to P.C. They dislike Arabs, Asians and Africans just as much as they dislike Eastern Europeans and Balkan people if not more, they just can't express it because they'd be labelled racist. Living in Slovakia and the Czech Republic was a fresh air for me compared to the Netherlands and it really opened my eyes how bad I was treated in the Netherlands. Many Eastern Europeans there had Stockholm syndrome. A good economy and a high salary can only get you so far.

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Local_Collection_612@reddit

Speak for yourself. There are many Bulgarians, Romanians, Poles, and other Balkan people who have a good time in the Netherlands. Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean everyone does. If you are Muslim or African, you will face ten times more xenophobia than an Eastern European in the Netherlands.

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EleFacCafele@reddit

Yes, no discrimination laws protect Balkan people as they protect non white people. Brexit was built on the narrative of Romanians and Bulgarians being criminals and Brexit would stop them coming. Daily Express even initiated a crusade against Romanians and Bulgarians and nobody protested. https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/440206/Join-our-Crusade-today-stop-new-EU-migrants-flooding-in-to-Britain

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eastern_petal@reddit

We're smarter than them and they know it. 😏

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eastern_petal@reddit

Am observat și eu online că mulți olandezi sunt extrem de rasiști. Ca și mulți nemți, de altfel. Unul dintre motivele pentru care m-am întors acasă după mulți ani petrecuți în Germania. Dar faza haioasa e că și OP, care e bulgar, e foarte rasist, am venit aici după ce ii citisem un comentariu negativ despre București și am observat apoi că vorbește negativ despre Grecia, România ( deși în ambele țări a fost doar 3 zile) și încearcă că pună Bulgaria la un loc cu Europa Centrală. Îmi pare rău, buddy, dar îți stăm în cale din punct de vedere geografic.

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OkArmy8295@reddit

Italians are the worst xenophobs there

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Stelist_Knicks@reddit

I severely doubt Estonians, Latvians, or lithuanians would have something against Balkan people. Lithuanians and Romanians practically have identical stereotypes abroad

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ChoaIsSad1999@reddit

you'd be surprised I myself am not Balkan but I used to date a Latvian guy that talked sh*t about the people from the balkans and more specifically Serbians I have no clue as to why he did that, every time I tried to ask, he changed the topic

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OkArmy8295@reddit

Jelaous of us being better in basketball 🤣

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Quirky_SummerCroat@reddit

Balkan ppl are the worst. Serbs think they are much better people then Romanians or Bulgarians, Macedonians....Greeks they like. Unbelievable in a way. But superior complex really goes from west to east. The way Slovenians think of Croats, Croats think of Serbs etc.....

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

Serbs think they are much better people then Romanians or Bulgarians, Macedonians...

This is not true.

We think we are better than everyone.... maybe not Japanese, though.

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Puzzleheaded_Sir903@reddit

Yup, we love Japanese people.

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sjedinjenoStanje@reddit

This is a pan-European thing, the inclination to engage in pissing contests with national rivals. I think it's due to the fact that one's neighbors/rivals are so very close so comparing oneself to them is almost an inevitability.

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Greek_Gazer@reddit

First of all, there is no reason to go to Western Europe. I think it's better to live poorer but in your country. Balkans are not so bad as we think. We are grumpy

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Incvbvs666@reddit

Hungary. Hungarians are now mostly chill towards Serbia and I imagine the rest of the Balkans.

Austria and Slovenia, some discrimination. Germany, definitely discrimination. Benelux, British Isles and Scandinavia complete and total disrimination. These places essentially view the Balkan nations as savages, and since it's no longer PC to hate on non-white people we get all that nice negative energy borne of the mother of superiority complexes.

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Firm-Pollution7840@reddit

It depends on the country. Greeks arent getting treated like shit at all in The Netherlands or the UK for example. Neither are Serbians or Croats. Its specifically Bukgaria and Romania that have a bad rep especially in the Netherlands and that has to do with some very public Bukgarian/Romanian crime syndicates defrauding billions in tax allowances meant for low income earners to subsidise their rent and food.

The gangs used an elaborate scheme to register Bukgarians and Romanians and retroactively apply for all these different benefits and then quickly move away. When the authorities would find out, they were already back in Bulgaria and the money was gone.

Some journalists did a news thing on it and it became a very well known scandal that unfortunately got the name the "Bulgarian Fraud" and basically everyone that was an adult around 2010-2015 will know it anf its the first thing they'll think of when they hear Bulgaria.

So honestly claiming its some sort of anti Balkan or Eastern European discrimination isn't really true. It's like saying someone who got scammed by an Indian scammer and reacts slightly apprehensive when hearing an Indian accent is all of a sudden racist towards Asians.

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Lilitharising@reddit

You'd be surprised. Concealed xenophobia is still xenophobia and then there's your occupation. In the best case, you're see as something like an exotic birth that's fun to have around but won't let it in their inner circles. I can give you quite a few examples of shitty behaviours against us in the UK and how the tune changed in some cases when they found out we're both academics.

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Firm-Pollution7840@reddit

Yeah of course I mean no country is perfect but the UK seems to get such a bad rep on here and I think its wildly undeserved especially if you look at other countries treatment of minorities and foreigners.

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EleFacCafele@reddit

Yeah, Britain!. The country who mistreated Romanians and Bulgarians and and won the Brexit Brexit case on blaming and scapegoating them for all immigration problems

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Firm-Pollution7840@reddit

Yes exactly that Britain. If you get off the Internet in real life the UK really isn't all that bad. Im actually surprised people here think Spain and Italy are better when they will literally look at you like youre only allowed to work as a toilet cleaner or taxi driver when the UK literally has eastern Europeans across every layer of society leading perfectly fine lives.

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EleFacCafele@reddit

Give me a break. I lived in the UK for 25 years and been through the hate campaign against Romanians from 2007 to 2014 and then the Brexit Campaign (2014-2016). Don't lecture me on things I saw and heard myself. Been there when the Race relation guru, sir Trevor Phillips called Romanians "Most likely to be pickpockets, with an image of the Romanian flag.

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Foreign_Bluebird_680@reddit

I mean even as a Slovenian think you are most likely to be a pickpocketer. When I hear break in in some tourist spot, I always think first of Romanians and I am almost always right so...

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Firm-Pollution7840@reddit

It says "far more likely" not "most likely", its intentionally vague because far more likely than who?

Anyway as you can see eveyone is getting shat on equally in that edgy post. It sounds like it was made by someone who is just "edgy", rather than directed anti european hate.

Anyway i never said the UK was perfect but having lived in London, Germany and Spain, i can quite honestly say from my experience that the UK is by far the least racist and problematic.

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eastern_petal@reddit

Wait a minute! Are you talking about discrimination as a...Dutch? Do you realise how ridiculous you are? 🤡 You're not among the targets of racist folks, so how would you know! Have a minimum of basic decency and don't talk about things you know nothing about.

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EleFacCafele@reddit

Far more likely is even worse than most likely. Don't whitewash racism. Are you Romanian? I bet you are not.

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EleFacCafele@reddit

Illegal Migrants presented as Romanians

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eastern_petal@reddit

You're not making the point you think you're making. You sound like a covert racist ( actually not that covert). And the way you phrased it, you made it sound like you think it is ok to be prejudiced against Romanians and Bulgarians. It's not too late to delete that shitty comment.

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2024-2025@reddit

Westernmost Iceland or Portugal

Northern most maybe Poland

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matt_storm7@reddit

This is unfortunately no longer the case. You can google cases like the recent killing of Croats in Ireland :/

Young unemployed people get easily triggered by foreign accents.

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31_hierophanto@reddit

You can google cases like the recent killing of Croats in Ireland :/

Jesus Christ, this is a thing now? :(

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eastern_petal@reddit

These are frightening times we live in.

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Foreign_Bluebird_680@reddit

I've been told in UK, we shoot pigs for christmas, do you have electricity, do you have a picture of Putin, do you have internet, how is war with Ukraine, do you have internet.

I am from Slovenia. Luckily Slovenes have quite a hard R-sound, and if you don't listen carefully sometime people think I am from South Africa, but in general I am treated like shit if they get the hang that I am from Slovenia (Eastern Europe)

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anonumousJx@reddit

I'm from Serbia and I haven't had any unpleasant expiriences anywhere in Europe, yet.

My dad travelled a lot more than me, he's had a few in Croatia and Kosovo but nothing serious. Kids pretending they are gonna throw rocks when they saw the license plates, cashiers not being particularly friendly, stuff like that.

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eastern_petal@reddit

Uhm, maybe not that you know about. I left my work WhatsApp group ( and shortly afterwards Germany) after a German coworker sent a screenshot about a Romanian criminal group ( news that seemed to be fake anyways). Lately, when she approached me about it, she told me it could have been any other nation, like Serbians, Albanians. I didn't want to make it worse, so I didn't say anything. But it's not hard to tell which people are criminals in their eyes. It probably never crossed her mind to say: it could have been French, Danish or Norwegian. And she's generally a very kind person, don't wanna know what AfD fans really think of us.

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

Lucky you! :)

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AnythingGoesBy2014@reddit

there is so called middle european axis of contempt, i don’t know who’s idea this was, maybe from žižek?

the gist of it is. you start in germany everything southeast from you is considered uncivilized and a little barbaric., including austria. from austrias point of you they will respect germany, but everything southeast from them is considered uncivilized and not so little barbaric. you come to slovenia: everything southeast from you, starting in croatia is considered uncivilized and barbaric, lazy, you name it. you look up to germany and austria. and so on.

this ends in albania.

western and northern europe in general have superiority complex in respect to the rest of the world, stemming from colonial times.

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

After visiting Athens and Thessaloniki I can truly say my home city Sofia feels far closer to Belgrade or even Budapest and Bratislava (and I assume Zagreb) sans the big river than Athens and Thessaloniki.

We have far more Austrian architecture influence in the center, far fewer churches and ours are more similar to the design of the churches in Serbia than those in Athens and Thessaloniki which look even more Byzantine.

We also have commie districts with tall flats and lots of space of mostly grasslands between them, very similar to Petrzalka in Bratislava or Novi Beograd. I didn't saw such areas in Athens or Thessaloniki, it's mostly 4-6 floor tall flats, very close to each other all over. There aren't wide open areas. The plants in Sofia are also more similar to the ones in Slovakia, Hungary and Serbia while the ones in Athens and Thessaloniki are very different. I expected something like Sofia on the Med with palms and more ancient structures from Athens, it felt more like a much cleaner and Orthodox Christian version of a North African city.

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Lilitharising@reddit

You keep repeating this but it's just not true. Have you visited any Mediterranean countries, like Spain or Italy? Have you been to the outskirts of central Europe?

Greek cities are indeed very industrialised in some areas, but saying they don't look European is a big stretch. Don't try to downgrade us to somehow claim that we're more worthy of racism than you are, because following the thread of your syllogisms, this is what you're trying to imply. Racism is a sign of ignorance and insecurity and nobody deserves to experience it.

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

Come on, Athens has amazing beaches and ancient sights, but everything else is a dump. Your flats are far uglier than the commie flats in Sofia, Bratislava and Budapest. And they're so close to each other, it's a concrete wasteland.

I spent just 3 nights there and for this short time I saw a man sitting on the pavement in disbelief with policemen around him, I think he was attacked or something. I went to the airport almost 10 hours before my flight as I decided 2 full days and half was more than enough and I don't want to experience more of it.

- It's the first city where I see people doing drugs lying down the pavement.

- People on the metro would put their backpacks in the front to avoid pickpockets.

- I walked so many places and yet no one initiated conversation with me like they do in Bratislava. The only person that did was a waiter at a restaurant inviting me to sit.

Commie districts are actually usually quite nice, maybe not to live in but to go for a walk because they offer wide open green spaces between the flats. Unfortunately I didn't see any analog to Petrzalka or this Sofia neighborhood with such huge green spaces between flats in Athens and Thessaloniki. And both of these are very close to the city centers, the one in Sofia 10-15 min by car, the street view in Bratislava is right just across the Danube from the old town.

There aren't as many children playgrounds in Athens and Thessaloniki compared to Bulgarian and Slovak capitals. Thessaloniki was less than Athens to be fair and more European but still it felt too chaotic and disordered for me. It's in my good to visit, not to live there list.

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Lilitharising@reddit

I'm not trying to compare any Greek cities to Petrzalka. I'm simply arguing against your conclusion that it doesn't look European. Three days are not nearly enough to judge a city. An example out of many - have you been to Aerides? Or have you walked to London neighborhoods with council estates? I've lived in England for twenty years. I can pinpoint areas that are mere depressing, and others that are beautiful. Also, your description of how people communicate is not nearly indicative of Greek culture. We may not smile at each other on the street as much as you do, but we're one of the most welcoming and expressive nations out there - and if you read tourists' comments, you'll see it for yourself.

The concrete ugliness you described is the result of this massive industrialisation of the 50s and it has left many parts of the cities look ugly, I agree with you. But they're not enough to draw the conclusion that Athens 'doesn't look European'. Again, have you ever been to other Mediterrenean countries?

By the way I've been in the Athenian subway many times, as my husband is an Athenian. Never noticed the behaviours you did. But I used to hold my backpack like that in London. Me and many others.

I'm not trying to claim that Greek cities are the most beautiful cities on the planet; I'm just saying that your description of them, as well as the comparisons you're trying to draw, kinda point towards a premeditated effort from your part to undermine the places. Because really your original post was about discrimination against the Balkans. Your comments make it sound like 'why are Greeks not discriminated against, they have ugly buildings that don't look European at all'. This is the biggest non-sequitur ever.

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

Calm down, in not European I meant its buildings are white and too close to one another like the photos from North African cities. For example Casablanca here looks very similar to Athens.

"we're one of the most welcoming and expressive nations out there"

I find Greeks very welcoming in customer service roles at touristy places like hotels and restaurants. Aside from that there is no culture of random acts of friendliness like random strangers striking conversations in buses or bus stops like in Slovakia and Bulgaria. OK, Athens is big and crowded, but didn't find it even in Thessaloniki which is roughly Sofia-sized.

Expressive, kinda yeah but I find in Greek society most social life is based on family and friends you made back in childhood, school or university. It's similar in Bulgaria in a way but at least from time to time you get some stranger on a bus stop to speak to you. Athens felt as impersonal and aloof as London, only with better customer service, nice beaches and lots of history and beautiful ancient sights. The modern city is claustrophobic.

And, on the contrary, I went without any negative notions there. I expected to love Athens as I idealized it and loved it on photos and Street view. I imagined it's like Sofia, only with nice beaches and the added benefit of more interesting ancient history. I was not prepared how sketchy it feels on the ground. Some areas look like Detroit. I only liked the ancient sites and Glyfada because of the beach.

I don't care about the UK, it's a dump. I held Greece to higher standards than the old, cloudy, grey UK where they don't even paint the brick houses and which is in a free fall.

I'm comparing Athens to other Eastern European capitals as I was considering relocating there and you know it doesn't have the tidiness and greenery of Sofia or Bratislava. OK, Bucharest was even dirtier, I can give Athens that. but it also had more parls. I think fellow Med capitals like Madrid, Rome, Zagreb, Ljubljana and even Tirana looks cleaner on photos.

I didn't expect to see druggies lying on the pavement, that's something one can see in the USA like in San Francisco.

It was my first Med country visit and to be honest I am disappointed, I'm visiting Italy soon and I expect to hate it as well. Some of us just feel better in cleaner environments with more order and at least some wide open spaces to escape the concrete.

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Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

Man you are comparing Bratislava to Athens ? Seriously what's wrong with you? You should have visited Larissa instead of Athens. Yes Athens is not for everyone and even Greece in that respect. Move on.

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Lilitharising@reddit

I'm not upset. I have no intention or will to change your opinion. But my initial assessment of your predisposition stands. A three day trip to a city doesn't give you a perspective. I'm not trying to change your mind as I don't care that much. But trying to persuade a Greek with multiple ties to Athens about stuff you experienced in less than a week is silly. And it does seem you're trying too hard, sorry. I must know a different Athens I guess.

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

Believe me it was more than enough, I know right away if I click with a place and culture or not. Greece is amazing, but culturally it's just not a good fit for me and that's OK. I wish it could work out, but it's not possible. I was also sweating too much at 27 C in November. The only time I liked Athens is between 7:00 and 8.00 AM - without the traffic it was amazing - quiet, no people in the center, empty streets, not too hot yet. I wish it was always like that! Peace!

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Lilitharising@reddit

Well, I do hope you find the right place for you. It absolutely must agree with you if you plan to relocate there. Good luck!

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Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit

Well certain expensive Athens suburbs can look like Amman Jordan but pls. Athens and Saloniki are for the kind of people that like NY and like. Not for the people liking Dubai or Luxembourg. This guy needs to understand this also understand that yes go in the wrong alley and you will see people doing drugs (this won't you get killed though like US ) and move on. Mate Athens is simply not for you get a life. Also the way it is build it's much healthier than lots of Europeans city planning decisions. Not perfect still but much better than zoning. Need to be an expert to get it.

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eastern_petal@reddit

Besides, OP talking about the Great Bulgaria and calling historical cities a "dump" while they have Stolipinovo at home. The irony! 😅

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eastern_petal@reddit

Came here from one of OPs comments about Bucharest, same condescending, know-it-all attitude. They're either a troll or an extremely insecure person who likes to paint a negative image of cities they know nothing about (no, a city break is not long enough to get to know a city).

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Lilitharising@reddit

I'm sorry to say this, but this is the vibe I'm getting, too. It may not be intentional but this is what it comes across as.

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eastern_petal@reddit

I doubt it's not intentional. But OP seems to have a black and white way of thinking ( and judging!!!) and drops conclusions reaaaaally fast!

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thetrueusernamename@reddit

Zizek has something similar but only for Balkans https://youtu.be/r_5Slnkzekc?si=DPIMYZPj1X-yiom8

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thetrueusernamename@reddit

Can confirm, it is Zizek https://youtu.be/r_5Slnkzekc?si=DPIMYZPj1X-yiom8

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PasicT@reddit

As a Balkan person, I've never faced discrimination anywhere in Europe. Maybe I've just been lucky so far, I don't know.

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NoPlisNo@reddit

My Serbian friend that lives in Germany was told, by a government official, that she should be grateful to breathe German air lmao

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Imaginary_String_814@reddit

sounds made up mate.

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NoPlisNo@reddit

No idea how I'm supposed to prove it to you, she told me when I asked her directly if she's faced any discrimination in the 5 years she's lived there. She said that was the only instance besides some random Balkan beefs unconnected to Germans.

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nofunatallthisguy@reddit

Thank you for sharing, that's good to know about.

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NoPlisNo@reddit

I should mention she also said the Germans don’t want to be friends with immigrants of any kind really, they keep to themselves, but that’s not Balkan specific

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eastern_petal@reddit

True. I made only one German friend in 14 years spent there. And even that was not a close friend.

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nofunatallthisguy@reddit

Your friend said that, or the government official?

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NoPlisNo@reddit

My friend about her experience in Germany. Her friend group there is all other immigrants from around the world.

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AlexMile@reddit

I would reply instantly:"as long as there are no traces of Zyclone B gas in it - I am grateful".

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LibertyChecked28@reddit

she should be grateful to breathe German air lmao

Certified G*rman classic

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PasicT@reddit

That does sound like something a government official in Germany might say, there are some people in there.

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Mrtvoguz@reddit

Have not faced discrimination as a Bosniak in Sweden

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JufffoWup@reddit

In the US there is no prejudice against Eastern Europeans.

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babybabayyy@reddit

Eh I'm in Canada and I've had a few nasty interactions with some people after finding out I was a Serb.

One guy told me he wanted to kill Serbs when he was in the military (just take your vaccine shot and shut up), another guy (ironically has Swiss parents) had started saying some really disgusting stuff to me at a party, when previously he was quite friendly with me. Knew the guy for two years before he came out as a weirdo. I've had a few strangers likewise just say some shit out of pocket about Serbia after simply introducing myself and answering where I'm from.

For the most part, people don't give af but there's always a few people who reveal they're dick heads

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Hot_Weakness6@reddit

Well, if only Serbians didn’t do some infamous things twenty years ago…

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

What did Serbs do in 2005?

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babybabayyy@reddit

Dude you're totally right bro, I never thought about it that way. Your logic is impeccable 💯

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svemirskihod@reddit

I’m in Canada too. The only weird or aggressive interactions I’ve had with Balkan people were with other Croatians. I met former NHLer p. Saša Lakić at a house party. Enforcer, huge Serbian tattoo on his arm, we got along fine.

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JufffoWup@reddit

Serbs excepted, of course.

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NoPlisNo@reddit

I’ve lived in Canada for a while (Serb) and I’ve definitely had a number of negative interactions. They’re mostly driven by ignorance about the world and Eastern Europe, as well as some prejudice against Serbs specifically that we feel exists in the Western world. Nothing super serious, people have mostly never heard of our Balkan countries.

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sjedinjenoStanje@reddit

True but OP is asking about in Europe.

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Mesenterium@reddit

Wait, Europe isn't a country? 😮

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Nothing_Special_23@reddit

Serbia and Bosnia, maybe? In Hungary and Croatia there's already huge discrimination towards (other) Balkan countries. In Slovenia there's also lots of discrimination towards the Balkans (Croatia included)... and in Austria there's even more discrimination towards the Balkans (Slovenia and Hungary included).... it gets worse and worse the farther North or West you go.

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DivisiveByZero@reddit

I feel you might be on to something. Because it's not Balkans specific, it's more about being eastern European. Also, you will find western discrimination as well. You mentioned other balkaners being discriminated in Croatia, but didn't mention anything about Slovenians being discriminated here as well. And let's not mention Italians.

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TomIDzeri1234@reddit

France for both, 100%

I'm not French, which means I'm already bottom of the barrel, doesn't matter if you're from the Balkans, Russia, UK, Germany, you're simply not French and that's all there is.

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

Yes, they look down on everyone not French and equally. :P Out of all Western people I think the Portuguese are far more accepting than the others. Maybe because they're very far away and distant from almost every other region in Europe and they only border one another country.

At least I've had better experiences with Portuguese people than any other Westerners. Of course a huge part of it is subjective so YMMV. Many people get on well good with the Dutch but I seemed to attract the crazies and racists there lol. Not so in Slovakia, I literally broke down and cried when I was leaving Bratislava. I felt more welcome there than in my home city.

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1tiredman@reddit

Come to Ireland

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

I've heard the Irish are friendly with the craic but the climate would trigger my Seasonal affective disorder. But I would visit it as a tourist over the UK any day!

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Firm-Pollution7840@reddit

Speaking for the Netherlands I think its got to do with two things, first, people know nothing about Bulgaria at all so there isn't really any sort of connection or easy small talk you would get if you said that youre Greek for example (like saying they had ancient Greek in school or they love souvlaki or they visited Santorini etc etc).

And second, there were several very public organised crime syndicates from Bulgaria that defrauded billions of euros in tax benefits meant for poor people. The syndicates got Bulgarian citizens to register in the Netherlands and apply for several types of allowances retroactively and then move back to Bulgaria never to be seen.

Since these allowances are meant for low-income earners to subsidised their rent and food costs, it enraged a large part of the country and tainted the view of Bulgaria and Bulgarians, precisely because most people have no other connotations (positive or neutral) with Bulgaria to counterbalance it.

So yea sure people might be biased and unfairly that'll rub off on every Bulgarian now but I think its understandable and if you want to blame someone, blame the Bulgarian crime syndicates that gave 0 fucks about the country's reputation.

Dutch people won't have a negative reaction to someone from let's say Czech Republic or Croatia or Greeece or Latvia or Estonia etc. Its very specific for Bulgarians and Romanians (they used similar schemes).

Also I think the UK gets an unfairly bad reputation. My manager at my previous job at a well known firm in the City was Romanian and she was absolutely badass and everyone loved her, literally no one gave a shit where she was from. There were plenty of Europeans from all over the continent on our team and to the Brits it was just either youre British or youre somewhere from the continent and dont sound like a native Brit but they didnt really care either way and most definitely wouldn't treat a Romanian different from a German or a Norweguan. They were all judt non British European who sometimes made funny mistakes in English and all went back to the continent for the holidays.

I think Spain and Italy might seem more accepting to you but believe me they will not accept you as their manager.

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

I guess I'll do like USA Americans claiming to be Canadians abroad and start saying I'm Greek lol. Which genetically can be true anyway. :P

It's funny what you say about Greeks being accepted though as Athens today feels very non European aside from the ancient sites. The modern city is like a cleaner version of a North African city only with churches instead of mosques. Sofia in comparison feels much closer to Belgrade and even Zagreb, Budapest and Bratislava in terms of nature, climate, architecture.

Yeah the UK might be more welcoming than most, too bad it has turned into a dump.

I still say let's hear it for Slovaks and Czechs, I was never treated bad due to my origin by them. If anything I was always welcome, particularly in Slovakia. A Romanian friend of mine was a manager in Slovakia and the Slovaks accepted him.

I also liked my Slovak coworkers more than most fellow foreigner ones. The Swedish, German and French people in particular were just a pain to work with. With Italians it was 50/50, Spaniards mostly positive experiences. Portuguese people were just amazing, they felt like the most welcoming, open and least xenophobic Westerners towards Bulgarians and Romanians. I don't know how they act in their own country though but the French, Scandinavians and some Germans are quite nasty even abroad.

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EleFacCafele@reddit

Stop justifying xenophobia on the crime syndicates. Responsibility for crime is personal, NOT collective. Romanian and Bulgarian law abiding citizens MUST not be victims of collective punishments and xenophobia of the Dutch or other Westerners. The Dutch and others cowardly justify their own bigotry and xenophobia on the criminal acts of some Bulgarians and Romanians, enabling a collective punishment of innocent Romanian and Bulgarian citizens. The current Dutch politician Geert Wilders created a database for denouncing Romanians, Bulgarians and other Eastern Europeans for allegedly stealing jobs of the Dutch. The Netherlands is deeply racist and xenophobic, so don't blame the victims of racism/xenophobia for the Dutch discriminations.

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LibertyChecked28@reddit

Faroe Islands, because there's no people there.

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31_hierophanto@reddit

Except Filipino and Thai wives for some reason.

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Historical-View647@reddit (OP)

Hah good one! :)

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mertkksl@reddit

I think any country located to the west of Turkey has a negative perception of our culture and history. I would say the negative sentiments start with Bulgaria lol.

Greeks would be an exception however. I def think many of them acknowledge our similarities and treat us as equals.

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biggiantheas@reddit

What are you on about? In Macedonia you are treated as superior. People are just a bit reserved because of you know what.

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yayayamur@reddit

not eu but canada. rn indians and sometimes chinese face the most xenophobia but I havent had a problem in my 5 years of being here

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Hopeful_Drama_3850@reddit

Also a Turk in Canada.

I've never faced xenophobia by anyone else than established longtime resident Turks. Or at least not openly - of course there's no way I can know if I missed some job offers or rental places because of my obviously Turkish name.

But the hatred against Indians is really getting out of hand. It's disturbing me even if I'm not the target of it. People blame Indians for the shitty greedy decisions the government made.

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Firm-Pollution7840@reddit

Oh wow I didnt know that. How does racism against Indians manifest? Is it out in the open? So much for this tired stereotype of Candians being overly friendly and nice lol

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yayayamur@reddit

indians and chinese immigrants outnumber those coming from other nations, and there also was a scandal about "diploma mills" granting too many indians study visa and they come here but dont go to school at all and try to find work (which is illegal for students if its over 20 hours a week). So even the indians who immigrate here the right way have a bad rep among canadians

the housing prices went up, and finding a job became harder so indians were scapegoated instead of people blaming politicians and rich people who try to exploit cheap labor. When I first came here it was chinese people being the scapegoats for increasing housing prices but over time, after diploma mills scandal the new racism meta became against indiana

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yayayamur@reddit

yeah, i also have people close to me who also have racist thoughts about indians and i feel bad that i cant change their minds

canada government imo fucked up by letting in too many indians and chinese compared to other nationals and especially putting a cap on study permits too late but you cant blame individual people because they made a good decision for themselves

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mertkksl@reddit

I live in the U.S and almost never experienced discrimination due to being Turkish. Whenever I feel like something is off it’s usually because I’m a “foreigner” in general or because I’m a Muslim.

American really really REALLY don’t like Islam lol. Their whole face just freezes when they learn I’m a Muslim.

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Only-Dimension-4424@reddit

Americans don't have clue what Turkey is , some thinks we are European , some thinks we are Arab , but mostly they have no idea

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vbd71@reddit

I've noticed discrimination everywhere, even in Balkans.

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Hot_Weakness6@reddit

There is a huge stereotype in Europe about Bulgarians

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Every-Artist-35@reddit

Westernmost: Albania Northernmost: Albania

Who cares about the vocal minority. We joke about tourists here in Greece as well

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yayayamur@reddit

canada. rn indians and sometimes chinese people face the most xenophobia but I havent faced a problem 5 years of being here

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Local_Collection_612@reddit

From my experience Dutch people are open minded to foreigners( ofc more to european foreigners than to non western immigrants). But I am born in the Netherlands so I have a different view than foreigners who are born in a different country.

As you mentioned Bulgaria. Bulgaria is seen as an eastern european country. Often grouped with Romania, Poland and Baltics. You have the cheap labour immigrants and also many Uni students in the Netherlands from a Dutch perspective. If a Dutch person doesn’t like you he just doesn’t like foreigners or just don’t want to invest time in you. Sometimes there are some Turks from Bulgaria who come negativly in the news or gypsies but I don’t think that affects public opinion to much.( because it rarely happens)

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crowbarguy92@reddit

Even Balkan people discriminate Balkan people.