Keir Starmer did a 180 on immigration and is pursuing more strict immigration laws. What happened for him to have a sudden change?

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AF_II@reddit

He never held any of those values to start with, he's a hollow man
The hope is that this will gather right wing votes while left wing people will be "forced" to continue voting Labour because there is no alternative.

2 is going to be proved horrifically wrong at the next election; they didn't lose many votes to reform, the Conservatives did.

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Chazzermondez@reddit

To be tougher on immigration was in his manifesto so you're just not informed.
That isnt what they are trying to do. They know that there are hard right Tories that are now voting Reform but they will never vote Labour, they aren't trying to win them. You are just wrong about that. What they are trying to do is prevent left leaning Labour voters going over to reform too - you may not think that would ever happen but you are then looking at people's reason for voting very narrow mindedly.

If you look at Brexit voting as a guide for this, there were tons of labour voters who voted for Brexit. The north east, Birmingham, all of Lancashire except Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds all voted majority leave. So absolutely rightly, Labour are aware that they have a ton of voters who are economically left wing but socially right wing. If the basis of voting shifts away from economics to social issues, as reform is trying to make happen, then suddenly there's a whole wing of their supporters who don't agree with Labour, unless labour try and take a right leaning stance on some social issues whilst maintaining a left leaning stance on everything else.

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AF_II@reddit

I appreciate the effort here but I was paying attention to Starmer’s words and tone about immigration prior to the last election and if you think 1 is a defence of his about face then you’re living in a different reality to me.

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Chazzermondez@reddit

I agree with your sentiment on it making right wing views more normalised. I was just trying to explain the logic behind what Starmer is doing. Both can be correct. He is trying to retain Labour voters and is also shifting more rightward.

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snapper1971@reddit

He didn't perform a 180 though and asking like this is disingenuous at best.

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TrapesTrapes@reddit (OP)

Guy posted 15 twitters in a couple of days criticizing immigration. He never did that before.

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snapper1971@reddit

It's literally in the manifesto they were elected on. Right there, in black and white.

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suspicious-donut88@reddit

In a 2020 speech, he said we should be welcoming immigrants not vilifying them. It's all over tiktok with the post comparing it to the one he made this week. It's a fair comparison if you don't look any further but comes undone with a simple Google search.

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GGhecko@reddit

You can welcome immigrants without allowing mass migration? Just welcome less of them?

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weedywet@reddit

Fewer

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suspicious-donut88@reddit

I agree but that's not what he said in that clip of that speech.

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PictureTakingLion@reddit

Reform ripped Labour to shreds in the polls since the GE and dominated them in local elections.

He’s realised that actually people don’t want to sacrifice their culture and national identity for masses of illegal immigrants to take over. We don’t want to be “multicultural”. We don’t want to be labelled “fascist”, “far right” or “racist” for wanting our country and its borders to be safe.

Thankfully he is starting to realise now that the things he jailed people for saying last summer were actually views the majority of people hold and he did permanent damage to his reputation and approval ratings by having people locked up for saying it so he’s trying to undo it.

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nova75@reddit

People were jailed last year for inciting violence. Nothing else. (Where, they were, but not in reference to what you're talking about)

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PictureTakingLion@reddit

There was a guy who was jailed for saying the southport stabber was probably a migrant. Eventually it turned out that he indeed was a migrant, and the government knew this. He was still jailed.

Don’t pretend all the people being locked up were inciting violence. The old people arrested for posting anti immigration posts on facebook to their families weren’t anything to do with the rioting.

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nova75@reddit

Sources please

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PictureTakingLion@reddit

Wayne O’Rourke was sentenced to 3 years in prison for “spreading misinformation”. This was because he said he believed that the Southport attack was a muslim terror attack.

Turns out the stabber was a second generation migrant who owned an Al Qaeda training manual. It was a muslim terror attack. But he was arrested for saying it.

So Starmer is happy to have people put behind bars for stating the truth (the truth he tried to cover up mind you), but we’re supposed to believe him when he turns around and is against mass migration all of a sudden?

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nova75@reddit

That's not a source. That's a quote without a source. It's meaningless

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PictureTakingLion@reddit

Do you need everything spoon-fed to you? There’s countless articles about him.

Here is one:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3gre3y9yo.amp

Nothing he says is untrue or “instigating”. He encouraged people to get out and protest, which is completely legal (he did not say to riot), and him saying he believed it was a muslim terror attack which it actually was.

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nova75@reddit

No, I merely ask for sources. It's what's called "backing up your point". What some people might call evidence and what food journalists do.

Over to the article. The very first sentence says he was convicted for inciting violence: "A man who posted material on social media to stir up racial hatred"

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PictureTakingLion@reddit

Read the rest of it. Nothing he said incited violence. It also says (before the lines you quoted) that he was jailed for “misinformation”. What was the “misinformation”?

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Illustrious_Study_30@reddit

Inciting violence and raiding Gregg's and Shoezone for knock off Crocs..

There was absolutely nothing ideological about that rampage.

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Dramatic_Guidance_21@reddit

How else do you think Starmer got a US trade deal? He's sold us out to the US, we just don't know it yet.

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weedywet@reddit

We don’t know this, but it’s sadly not outside the realm of possibility.

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pcsred1@reddit

I hope this shit never materializes

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Carnste@reddit

He’s changed his tone on immigration because a party known as Reform UK, right-wing populist, has been getting a lot of votes and has even won constituencies which were previously ‘strongholds’ for Labour. Reform are continuing to gather power, so he’s been forced to adopt a more right-wing perspective on immigration in an attempt to sway Reform voters, who mostly just care about immigration, over to his side.

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Aggravating-Rock2652@reddit

He pledged from the beginning to deal with immigration. It was in his manifesto while campaigning for PM. He didn't do a complete 180, but I won't say he isn't unaffected by reform

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Broad-Section-8310@reddit

His Labour did promise to deal with immigration pre-election (he went so far as to call out business leaders in their face), but not the extent that highly skilled people already in the UK would also leave (ten-year stay will precisely do that) - this is a clear parroting to the Reform.

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Aggravating-Rock2652@reddit

Absolutely! The new immigration rules are going to cause some issues in the not to distant future, I think

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Carnste@reddit

He did, but was Keir Starmer taking this hard of an approach towards it before the local election? Losing Runcorn etc really forced him to ramp it up.

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Rslty@reddit

Everything they announced was already lined up. Do you really think they wrote up a 82 page white paper in less than a week on a whim because of bad election results. Seriously some people have absolutely no idea how things get done

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Carnste@reddit

Did you read my comment? I said he was forced to adopt a more right-wing perspective. I never said he did a 180; the OP did.

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SKScorpius@reddit

White papers like this take months to write. It will have been in a QA phase since before the local elections.

So no, you're completely wrong.

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Carnste@reddit

Ah, I see. Reform have had no effect on the almighty Keir Starmer, who previously had a completely different view on immigration. No connection there. My apologies for actually watching the news.

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SKScorpius@reddit

Was it in the manifesto? Yes.

Do white papers take months to write? Yes.

Was this white paper created as a response to the local elections? No, it wouldn't be possible.

Hope that helps.

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Carnste@reddit

Okay, fair enough. It’s not a direct response per se, but to say that it hasn’t been influenced even in the slightest way by Reform is just incorrect.

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SKScorpius@reddit

The timing of the release of the white paper is likely calculated, but the main bones of the policy was in their manifesto.

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Carnste@reddit

I see. Well, thank you for letting me know.

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Aggravating-Rock2652@reddit

He wasn't, I know, but this still isn't a 180. He's feeling the pressure to move more aggressively on the topic, definitely.

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Carnste@reddit

I agree.

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SingularLattice@reddit

”Keir Starmer did a 180 on immigration”

Sorry, what? Labour made campaign pledges on this, hardly a “180”.

Migration Observatory

”I'm not that into british politics”

No shit.

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TrapesTrapes@reddit (OP)

Sorry if i hadn't this info before. Im just asking why all of a sudden he changed his rhetoric. Up until a few days ago, he had only talked about Ukraine and far right extremism.

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Gazcobain@reddit

You've literally been provided evidence that he was talking about this long before "a few days ago".

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Accurate_Grocery8213@reddit

Reform kicked the crap out of both parties in local elections, he saw this and Tony Blair literally told him immigration is out of control either do something about it or we will be wiped out for a generation

This video points out neatly why hes done a 180

https://www.youtube.com/live/DeM9Re4JL24?si=L8rUKyMn3NtogQyk

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PlatformNo8576@reddit

Always been a right of centre authoritarian, and someone you wouldn’t trust with your grans heating allowance.

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chukkysh@reddit

Reform just did very well in the local elections. Perhaps they largely took votes from Tories, but Labour lost to them too. And in the Runcorn by-election.

Whether you agree with Reform or not, there are huge numbers of citizens who support them, and immigration is their number one concern. (They're happy to ignore Farage's plans for the NHS.)

So the Left has two options in a democracy: try to change their minds; or shift towards what they want. And there's a third, meet-in-the-middle way, which might convince some that they can stick with Labour.

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send_in_the_clouds@reddit

I don’t think it’s a change in policy but a change in language sadly. He has gone from “we should have fair immigration policies but we do need immigrants” to “we need fair immigration policies so we are not overrun by strangers.”

One is sensible and correct, and the other is a panic response to Reform doing well in council seats.

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Indigo-Waterfall@reddit

Competing with reform.

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alaw999@reddit

It was always in the manifesto?

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killer_by_design@reddit

Honestly, some of the most short term memory.

Not only was it in his manifesto it's been a clear goal of this government from day 1.

Deported 16,400 illegal immigrants in the first 6 months of government

This is just one of many announcement that's been put out by Labour but this has been a very clear goal from the get go.

I'm glad people have finally started to notice that they're getting a lot done.

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Entfly@reddit

Illegal immigration is the misdirection. It's the issue that they want you to focus on. All the while legal immigration is at record levels and the major issue for housing costs, lots wages, and so on.

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LeTrolleur@reddit

But they're also trying to tackle that now with this new law restricting who can come to the UK on a work visa, aren't they?

I'm not saying whether this will help or not, just pointing out that their goal is clearly to tackle both sides of the problem.

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Entfly@reddit

But they're also trying to tackle that now with this new law restricting who can come to the UK on a work visa, aren't they?

Coincidentally they have finally mentioned this after being utterly demolished by Reform at the polls yes.

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send_in_the_clouds@reddit

It’s not at record levels. We don’t even have all of the data yet to see how much labours changes have reduced numbers by, but it was going down before they even got in:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migration-advisory-committee-report-on-net-migration/net-migration-report-accessible?utm_source=chatgpt.com

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MercuryJellyfish@reddit

It's not a sudden change. From the start they said they intended to bring down net migration, and produce a white paper to say how they will do this. This is the white paper.

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Maximum_Scientist_85@reddit

The ‘problem’ is that a large percentage of British voters are economically left wing, but socially conservative. And these voters tend to be located in Labour heartlands.

First the Tories and now Reform have managed to latch on to the socially conservative aspect and make that a key factor.

A further problem is that whilst voters are like that, many of Labour’s most ardent supporters are economically left wing and socially liberal. So there’s a problem in balancing the social liberal & conservative parts of the party, pushing the conversation so that the things that unite people are seen as more important than those that divide.

IMO Labour suffers now because it’s probably not being economically left wing enough to stand out in that regard. The argument against doing that - fiscal responsibility - still looms large. Probably as a consequence of our higher public spending during COVID and other economic factors.

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After-Dentist-2480@reddit

Did he do a 180 on immigration?

Did he stand on a manifesto of “more and easier immigration “, or was it “we must control and reduce immigration”

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Nubian_hurricane7@reddit

People throwing polls in front of him for the last 6 months stating that the party who was strictest on immigration has a lead on all other parties.

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Icy-Belt-8519@reddit

I think reform, he wants the reform voters, he's always been a tory in Labour desiguse, now he's worse than tories, terrified for this countries and people's future with any of them in charge now, every single service you use has people working from other countries

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Broad-Section-8310@reddit

Keir has always been a populist who would shift his positions based on the public sentiment. (I will not comment on whether this is good or bad.) He has changed stances on transgender rights, social welfare, and now immigration too after the disastrous local election.

People following the Labour politics have known about this character of his for a while, and the public are just now seeing it happen on the national podium.

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ImpressiveGift9921@reddit

The local elections happened. Reform gained a massive amount of seats. Labour are concerned they'll get swept in the next general election if they don't demonstrate that they are going to bring immigration levels down. The public do seem to have run out of patience.

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EnumeratedArray@reddit

What labour are doing has been their plan and in their manifesto since they were elected

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SKScorpius@reddit

Sorry, do you actually think the 81 page white paper was written in a week?

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NobleRotter@reddit

Everyone says this but I'm not sure it stacks. Aggregate gains/losses indicate that reform is taking votes from conservative not labour. That split vote would be good for them.

I do think it's a general popularity/ slowing the shift to the right though. I also don't think it'll work considering the money being spent pushing right wing views.

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Fingertoes1905@reddit

REFORM

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Chemistry-Deep@reddit

I would argue the local election results were not that bad for Labour. Nearly all of Reform's gains were at the Tories' expense. Certainly not bad enough to change strategy on immigration (which they haven't).

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UltraLTX@reddit

Hahaha of course you're on UC. How poetic.

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Dennyisthepisslord@reddit

It was in the manifesto. They are just focusing on it more after the elections recently.

Mass immigration isn't popular.

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i_sesh_better@reddit

Losing thousands of votes to Reform in recent local elections

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Iainfletcher@reddit

Amazing he wrong a manifesto that could predict that.

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Adventurous_Rock294@reddit

He is chasing the Popular vote. Like all Politicians. The Local elections were a wake up call. He is just blowing in the wind.

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Paladin2019@reddit

It's been a grass roots issue for decades but the two main parties haven't really done anything to address it. Reform, a right wing populist party with a strong anti immigration message, have been taking a bigger share of the votes in recent elections which is forcing the main parties to take the issue seriously.

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YorkshirePuddingScot@reddit

Morgan McGreevey happened.

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getmovingnow@reddit

He saw internal polling and it clearly scared the shit out of him because if he doesn’t act now Reform will win the next election.

Keep in mind obviously Starmer and Labour don’t really believe in this and they know the courts which is totally captured by the left will stop any drastic reduction in no ‘s .

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Almaegen@reddit

Funny thing is reform isn't even as anti immigration as internal polling is showing.

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1renog@reddit

He's not done a 180 he's just pretending he had to just try pull votes from Reform. More interesting was that the style of speech, from hand movement to how he turned his head at times was a copy of Tony Blair; suggesting he did not choose to do thi, as much as he was brifed and rehearsed to do it.

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