Reason for whale friendliness towards humans?
Posted by relesabe@reddit | whales | View on Reddit | 37 comments
Firstly, it is hard for me to believe that whales are not as intelligent as humans if not more so -- who would have guessed 50 year ago that crows are more intelligent than 8 year old humans?
It is not a stretch to believe that they understand that humans are their only hope for help with chronic health issues like parasitic infections, etc. They have been documented seeking human help for other issues like entanglement.
They may also understand that humans are the source of pollution.
Are we ever going to assist whales in an organize way? We certainly owe this to them.
Odd-Lake7818@reddit
Whales and any other animals are wonderful and amazing. Whales are my favorite. But let's not make up false stuff. Whales and other animals are not as intelligent as humans... they are intelligent in their own ways, and it is amazing, and can do things humans can't. But this intelligence thing is not close. Things like abstract thinking, advanced creating, playing chess, art, music, or building computers or advanced tools - it is not close in any way. Animals are all amazing and wonderful.
gemini-unicorn@reddit
Gray whales in Baja Sur, Mexico are friendly to humans. This started in the 1970s. They are protected and their breeding grounds are protected. During the breeding season the local fisherfolk turn to ecotourism. Maybe 5% of the gray whale population is amiable to humans and seek human interactions. Which is still several hundred whales. Of those whom are friendly, they approach pangas of their own accord. They recognize the captains of the pangas. They like music and dance with the pangas. They mimic human smiling and waving hands/fins. They seek human touch. They are sentient.
It's important to recognize that the industrial whaling that drove whales to near extinction was done by Euro Americans. And the whalers called gray whales "devil whales" for the way the whales fought back. The friendliest whales in the world were considered evil. The same kind of society that produced industrial whaling considers animals to be nonsentient. And it's only now science is "discovering" the intelligence and sentience that animals have always had. Those talking pet buttons are showing us the sentience that has always been there. In the words of astrophysics science writers Mary and John Gribbens, "science is explainable magic."
In countries where whales were never hunted, at least in the Pacific ocean, whales are sacred and ancestors. They rescued fisherfolk at sea. Their sentience has always been a known truth.
The gray whale population is still suffering from the effects of industrial capitalism. There were very few births in Baja Sur this season. There are emaciated whales migrating from Baja to the Artic having to contend with demoic acid bloom in SoCal and toxic runoff from the LA wildfires. They encounter net entanglement along the California coast and diminished food sources. There are an unprecedented number of gray whales inside the San Francisco bay; 6 of whom have died from ship strikes or from starvation. In other parts of the Pacific, they are contending with nuclear waste being released in Fukushima and industrial pollution. In mid April, the gray whale calf count in Oregon was THREE. Last year it was 21. At its peak ten years ago, it was closer to 1500.
I met gray whales in Baja Sur this winter. If you ask me what they gain from interacting with humans, I would say they seek connection with humanity to remind us that humans are connected to the ocean. Whales are keystone species and guardians of the ocean. We are being called on to become guardians of the ocean.
Go to a Whale Festival or ethical whale watching tour anywhere on the West Coast; you will learn so much about whales. Go watch Attenborough's document Ocean. There's a documentary called Whale Wisdom on youtubes I think is alsoAttenborough.
Donate to Gray Whale Research in Mexico (via The Ocean Foundation), Happy Whale (whale identification), entanglement rescues: Marine Life Studies, The Marine Mammal Center, which are all first responders working with NOAA fisheries.
redditorialy_retard@reddit
Fukushima's waste has barely any radiation btw. It's been debunked and just fearmongering. China dumps much more radioactive waters in the ocean in comparison
Lakela_8204@reddit
Oh, whales are 1,000% smarter than us.
Pure_Imagination6753@reddit
i mean ill wait for a whale to understand the laws of the universe and use it to control the entire planet
relesabe@reddit (OP)
That is literally possible.
candycant40@reddit
I am reading Moby Dick for the first time. It is almost unbearable to me that whale-hunting went on as long as it did.
Pelosi-Hairdryer@reddit
I remember in the 1980’s when I was a small kid and the whales would always run away from boats of all kind. Just recently I took my niece and nephew to go whale watching and the whale biologist on a tour boat said her theory is the generations of whales that were hunted have passed away and the whales today we’re seeing are the new generations. So pretty the whales today are like the millennial and Gen Z of whales today and have not experienced being hunted.
Whal3r@reddit
Whales live a long time.. many whales still alive today were alive when hunting them was still a thing. The more likely theory is that ecotourism and whale watching has gotten much more popular in the past 20+ years and whales have become more habituated to boats. Ive gone whale watching in a very popular area and the whales are very good at ignoring boats, but Ive also gone whale watching in an extremely rural, remote area and most of those whales ran away from the boat.
Embarrassed-Sort-643@reddit
Pretty sure that there’s not “many” whales currently living that were actively hunted by (non indigenous) humans and Americans or Europeans-if there are any still around, the number would be vanishingly small. The whale species that made up the vast majority of those hunted by western countries were targeted for their oil, and while it’s possible for sperm whales to reach 70-80 years old it’s very rare. At this point it’s been 70 years since 1955-and the vast majority of whaling had wrapped up by then, as advent of synthetics in the late 50s and early 60s basically rendered whale oil useless, but the whaling industry on America’s east coast was essentially dead decades before that.
Pelosi-Hairdryer@reddit
I think most of those whales that were 80 years old are starting to pass away like most of GenX's grandparents today. But there are other countries that still hunt whales like Japan, Norway, and Greenland. Don't know why they can't get their resource from other sources other then whales though....
Whal3r@reddit
Yeah there are probably more younger whales now than older but from experience I used to work with a population of humpbacks where we had several well known individuals who had been documented since before whaling became illegal. These whales were part of an area where there were tons of small boats and large whale watching boats around every day and the whales rarely paid us any attention. Like I said, I’ve also worked in an extremely remote area where there were virtually no boats present and the whales either ran away immediately from our boat or showed intense curiosity towards us (90% of the time they ran though)
So I still think the increase in people owning boats and whale watching/ecotourism is a more likely theory to why whales seem ‘friendlier’ now.
Would be interesting to compare whales in places like Iceland where they have whale watching boats and whaling going on..
Pelosi-Hairdryer@reddit
Well the whales being friendlier is a sign to me that hopefully healing can start since us humans have been responsible for mass extinction of other animals since then. I was just reading and watching the documentary about the Essex that was sunk by an angry Sperm Whale and my goodness, that crew caused destruction whatever island they came upon. My Japanese friends today even refuse to acknowledge their tradition of whaling since why eat whales when we have other alternatives food and have protested against the killing as well. Also my friend's family refuse to support any shark fin soup every Chinese New Year as well too. Sorry I'm going off topic into millions of directions.
Whal3r@reddit
I think we just have different ideas of what healing looks like, I’m hesitant to make assumptions about them being friendly or forgiving, because it’s impossible to know what they are actually thinking.
But healing is definitely happening! Many whale populations have rebounded and are continuing to grow since whaling became illegal. Unfortunately some species are still very heavily affected by things like entanglement and ship strikes, but overall the save the whales campaign of the 80s was an incredible achievement for conservation.
Now if only sharks could get the PR that the whales did..
relesabe@reddit (OP)
There are whales older than the USA and steamships. Bowhead whales can live approaching 300 years.
Whal3r@reddit
Right. Most people aren’t whale watching with bowhead whales though. Either way, humpbacks can live to be ~80years old and we did not stop hunting them that long ago unfortunately
FitAt40Something@reddit
Were we not?
relesabe@reddit (OP)
This may be true of many species. Crows befriend people often now -- people do not chasse them away, at least where I live.
100 years ago, people used shotguns on them if they had crops the crows ate.
Zebulon_Flex@reddit
We should probably just leave them alone.
relesabe@reddit (OP)
even if they want our help?
Whal3r@reddit
They want to be left alone
UpbeatCandidate9412@reddit
If an animal wanted to be left alone it would not seek humans out. Take a look at manatees for instance; they have EVERY REASON to avoid human interaction and yet, there is THOUSANDS of videos and stories online of people nearly getting arrested because manatees can’t help but NOT interact with people! And to top it off, there is ZERO BENEFIT to manatees actively seeking humans out beyond idle curiosity. In fact, it’s actually a detriment to their health!
Whal3r@reddit
Manatees have no natural predators and lack fear, they may be curious of humans just like they may be curious of any novel thing in their environment. An animal exploring and being curious is not the same as an animal specifically seeking humans because they know we can help with their diseases or parasites or whatever. Animals don’t seek humans for help, and as you said human interactions often can harm animals. Leave them alone.
UpbeatCandidate9412@reddit
You’ve said the same thing twice now without actively giving me a reason to avoid these wonderful animals. Realize that you’re talking to someone who would rather spend his life studying animals than be dealing with people so…
Whal3r@reddit
Oh me too! I do study animals. I’m sorry I can list all the harms that humans do to animals but I thought you knew.. you even said it’s a detriment to the manatee’s health.
You should avoid whales in particular because you don’t want them to get too friendly around boats, that’s how they end up with propeller scars. One of many reasons, I’m happy to list more.
UpbeatCandidate9412@reddit
Forgive me but my focus is quite narrow (reptiles primarily, although I do auxiliary and tertiary research into birds and amphibians)
Scary-Lawfulness-999@reddit
Do you speak whale?
unicefz@reddit
Can you speak whale and you asked them this? 😂
They flourised well before humans starting killing and exploiting them. Almost wiped them out.
LEAVE THEN ALONE
Humanity always meddling with everything and 9/10 wrecking everything in the process. Prove me wrong.
relesabe@reddit (OP)
some of their problems are caused by humans.
also, humans survived without modern medicine for thousands of years -- do you avail yourself of it?
EndersGame_Reviewer@reddit
Do you have a source for that? I'd like to learn more.
CheckYoDunningKrugr@reddit
It's hard for flat earthers to imagine that the Earth is round.
6ftonalt@reddit
Whales are beyond a shadow of a doubt less intelligent than humans. Corvidea are most likely smarter than whales. If you can understand that then I suppose whales might at least be smarter than you.
relesabe@reddit (OP)
There are researchers who do not accept that the question is settled. Orca I believe are considered more intelligent than crows.
HunsonAbadeer2@reddit
I used to work in the field and we do not really know if whales are smarter than corvids. I would assume so tho from what I know
relesabe@reddit (OP)
it is obviously complex, even definitions are.
what is certainly true is that the past 40 years has had many surprising discoveries about the abilities of different species.
that bees, once thought to be little machines by me, will play with wooden balls for no reward, with drones spending more time doing so than workers do, both amused and surprised me.
AaronSlaughter@reddit
Curiosity?
relesabe@reddit (OP)
Sure, they must be amazed by our technology. Imagine if we encountered a tiny creature that could make objects that we could not figure out.