Hypothetical manual swap on a car that was never made manual.

Posted by ImReallyFuckingHigh@reddit | projectcar | View on Reddit | 29 comments

So to start this off I am not currently seriously considering this, I’m mostly wanting to know what it would all take if I ever became stupid enough to try. And while I’m not an automotive mechanic, I am a millwright, which a lot of those skills transfer to automotive work. There really isn’t anything mechanically I won’t touch on my cars so long as I have access to the proper tooling. I have a 2014 Avalon, with a 2GR-FE, absolutely love the car but the only thing I think it’s missing is a manual gear box (a turbo would be fun too but I’m not trying to kill the reliability and the car is quick enough stock). these motors are the most common motor swapped into MR2s so I’d imagine it wouldn’t be extremely difficult to find a transmission and an adapter plate. The hardest part I’d imagine would be to modify the car to have a manual shifter without making the interior look like complete shit. There is also getting the transmissions mounted and modifying CV axles to fit (I’d imagine I won’t be able to find any that are direct fit, but I was a custom welder and fabricator before joining the millwrights so that wouldn’t be hard for me to do. Is there anything else that I’m not thinking of that would make this even more difficult to achieve?

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29 Comments

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Syscrush@reddit

Your best bet would be to try driving some actually good cars with RWD and MT and see if you still love that Avalon.

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ImReallyFuckingHigh@reddit (OP)

I have and still do. It serves its purpose as a comfortable commuter car that I can be in for multiple hours and still be comfortable. I commute upwards 110 miles round trip so I’m not going to hop in a less comfortable car just because it’s a little more fun to drive. If I want to accelerate quickly the Avalon will do that. it takes turn alright for its length, there’s obviously better out there, but the body doesn’t really roll. the Avalon isn’t my only car either.

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DoctorBorks@reddit

Chevy SS isn’t as comfortable?

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ImReallyFuckingHigh@reddit (OP)

Couldn’t tell ya, never been in one. It’s a pointless comparison anyway since SSs go for over twice the price of a similar mileage Avalon Could almost guarantee the Avalon is cheaper to own by a long shot.

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Syscrush@reddit

>Could almost guarantee the Avalon is cheaper to own by a long shot. Not if you manual swap it. :)

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Syscrush@reddit

Then just enjoy the Avalon for what it is. You run a very real risk of ruining it by swapping the trans.

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4The2CoolOne@reddit

All this work for an Avalon? Is the juice worth the squeeze

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H4n_ny4@reddit

You’re also going to have to “trick” the ECM/TCM into thinking it’s still auto or run a stand-alone.

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gusgizmo@reddit

I think the only downside is the high idle and of course a CEL.

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H4n_ny4@reddit

Car could go into limp mode and not let you above 3k rpm. Best to do it right or don’t do it at all.

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coyote_of_the_month@reddit

To the extent that the engine is swapped into MR2s, it's clearly doable.

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H4n_ny4@reddit

Did I say it wasn’t?

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i-wear-extra-medium@reddit

Contact Frankenstein Motorworks. He will be able to retune your pcm to think it’s a manual. He also sells flywheels that will bolt to the E series manual gearbox. You would want to source it from a mid-2000 Camry (e351) The mounts are available as well

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Fragrant_Lobster_917@reddit

Are you saying they've manual swapped an Avalon? If so thats incredible work... lol

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DoctorBorks@reddit

There’s probably been a manual swapped Sienna.

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i-wear-extra-medium@reddit

No, he specializes in the mr2. I have an sw20 mr2 and I swapped in a 2gr into it with a 2004 Camry e351 manual transmission (gearing reasons). It’s an absolute blast to drive and I have easy to find parts at any part supplier should I ever need something

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flacoman954@reddit

An Avalon is a stretched Camry, should be the same thing from the firewall forward.

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Dank240SX@reddit

Quite a lot goes into manual swaps in these cases. My project car involves an engine that only came automatic swapped into another car now with a manual fitted so I’ll let you know to what extent this took to accomplish. I’m not familiar with your chassis or engine you’re trying to integrate but this level of fabrication requires similar consideration. Transmission flywheel/clutch/spline alignment. Make considerations for the transmission type you are using, the length of protrusion of the input shaft, which clutch assembly, flywheel, and the distances require to mate all components. In my case, some people have had to manually heat and press different flywheel ring gears to adapt the starter motor to fit their transmission. Others machine their own fly wheel spacers and use different starters. Mine has a machined bell housing adapter plate with 5/8” inches machined off the bell housing to allow the input shaft snout to reach the pilot bearing in the crank. Not even mentioning shifter alignment depending on mechanical linkage/cable type. I still have starter issues as I adapted an oem flywheel from another chassis to fit my engine and it bolts to the block, but the ring gears unmodified was not the right distance from the starter so it grinds occasionally. I’ve machines custom spacers for the starter as well, and also had to remove material on the block. This is the barebones minimum required to consider to even mesh the transmission to the engine. Further considerations for non manual chassis: clutch pedal. What pedal assembly fits with appropriate travel length? Does the firewall/bulkhead have enough integrity/space to mount this pedal? Hydraulic system planning from master location in engine bay, to slave at transmission dependent on application. Size appropriately. I can go on, but I will save the yapping. Hopefully this gives you an idea of the fabrication/planning necessary to do this.

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RiftHunter4@reddit

https://frankensteinmotorworks.squarespace.com/2gr-mkii-shopping-list They have the ECU and some other bits you could use. I think the biggest challenge is that there aren't many manual transmission for the 2GR. The Evora is one of the few and that would pricey to get parts for. Basically, to manual swap it, you'd be doing a lot of custom work.

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fmlyjwls@reddit

I read an article a while back about doing just this swap. The writer used a manual transmission from a late 90’s Camry, and I think the pedal assembly as well. He said all the holes for mounts were pre marked, but not drilled. It required an aftermarket rear mount if I remember correctly. As I recall he got it running and driving, but cruise control was giving him issues. It’s been done, do some digging, the info is out there

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isthatsuperman@reddit

Honestly you should just be happy with how the car is now, unless you have money in the bank and can pay someone to do it right. You could probably find an import Avalon with manual though.

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quietly_jousting_s@reddit

You might be better off finding a manual doner car and swapping the motor, trans and associated electronics. Everything is so intertwined anymore that you'd be chasing down a ton of little things if you did just the trans.

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ImReallyFuckingHigh@reddit (OP)

I get what you’re saying man, honestly I think this is overall the better approach. If the transmission and/or body goes first I’ll definitely consider it.

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RattyRatson@reddit

Is it possible? Yes. Is it possible to do it well without major headaches and have it perform well? Probably not. I don’t imagine there are too many people that have done this swap before so you’re going to have to do most of the figuring out on your own. It won’t be cheap.

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SumScrewz@reddit

it depends, if you hunt down parts from a donor at the scrap yard you can make it cheaper, but itll be alot of testing and figuring out what works or not. Figure out if theres any other similar chassis with manual gearboxes and asses if you can use/steal their design If you could get a pedal assembly, clutch master and basic hoses itll be a great start, but is there even space in the firewall to add that? could always go remote reservoir but that'd be a pain. Its not that big of a job on a car which has had manuals made oem before, from a car that never was, itll be a cool project lol

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RattyRatson@reddit

I’ve done 2 manual swaps myself, so I know what’s involved. It just seems like a lot of headache to figure out on an Avalon that doesn’t have that option in the first place, everything is gonna have to be trial and error basically.

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SumScrewz@reddit

completly agree man!

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SetNo8186@reddit

Best conversions are done with swapping in the manual offered in the model as all the parts will be stock and fit correctly. Next best is using the closest that others on that model forum have found to work around and succeed. Worst case is total custom fabrication, of which a machinist can expedite. At that point being an automotive drivetrains engineer is the critical skill as the working relationships with parts under power are critical -

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rational_overthinker@reddit

Re-wiring an entire cars brain just so you can row your own gears? That would be my 7th level of hell but you do you! If you can find an ecm from a manual version of that engine you might have a shot, I guess unless there are people out there that can jail break the existing ecm? If you are hell bent on this you may have to look to the East to Japan for another ecm but if you live in a smog compliant state that could be another issue Not sure how much this car shares DNA with the Camry but the 7th Gen Camry (2012-17) was the last Gen to offer manual trans, and I am sure they are stupid rare but if you can find an ecm from one of those maybe it would be a path forward?