Yeah just like the dems with those voting booths which Biden personally traveled to South America to learn how to rig to flip votes even those they don't use the same software and because nobody in the US could possibly know how to do it. The only thing stolen in the 2020 election was brain cells.
Considering election day is on a workday and not a national holiday and the 2020 election allowed anyone to vote early or by mail... Yeah., common sense that a lot more people voted.
Yeah, huge drop off when you don't have millions sitting home with nothing to do, early voting, mail in votes, plus the dems swapped in kamala and why would anyone vote her?
Kamala is the worst candidate ever run according to GOP and nobody voted for her. But if you want to believe that Biden personally went to South America to study voting machine software, then I can't help you.
This is the kind of lying with statistics that makes me question everything. If you were to tell someone “president trump killed 3.2 million people” you would think it was as a result of direct and intentional policies to do so. But no, it’s nitpicking data and attributing blame. It’s the same shit you saw with Covid so much of the time. It’s all very tiring.
It's why I have a hard time believing statistics especially at face value, you never know if the numbers are manipulated or people are taking the study wildly out of context.
I remember a while ago there was a study that "proved," that hunter gatherers didn't have predominantly male hunters and female gatherers. The study did show that women were just as likely if not more likely to be hunters, but the way they got that data was by mostly looking at modern tribes which isn't what people are thinking of when they hear the term reserved for ancient humans. Looking back at the study quickly there were other issues were if women ever participated in hunting (ie not regularly) of any kind (including small game) that counted as hunting.
Not to mention all your women make 79 cents for every dollar a man makes, oreos are more addictive than cocaine, you have to drink seven glasses of water a day, and all those other lies people still believe
How do you expect me to respond to this? I said I don't believe statistics at face value, I don't think you do that with anything, and then I provided an example to my claim so I wasn't making a sweeping generalization that statistics are bad just because.
Then you respond with an oversimplification of my viewpoint because I'm dismissing "something I don't like without even having to think," and yet what are you doing right now? Dismissing something you don't like without even having to think. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Back up your argument and don't be a hypocrite.
I'm never claimed to be intellectually enlightened. I can't take everything at face value because I don't have the time or empathy to verify everything, I do fall for incorrect information all the time. The value is found in the time I get to keep by not entertaining dubious information.
Bombarding you with too much information so you tune out is a propaganda tactic though.
The value is found in the time I get to keep by not entertaining dubious information.
I agree, but is your objection that it's not a primary source but a nested screenshot? Or do you not like the NYT? Or do you only entertain information you already consider credibly true (so confirmation bias?
My only point is that it's hard to navigate the media landscape
You're supposed to spend half an hour actually looking into numbers and trying to verify if they could be accurate.
Don't just throw away your responsibility as a thinking person with a cliche like "stats are used to manipulate people and are lies sometimes." Skepticism is smart and healthy, but if you stop at skepticism and don't try to actually determine the truth, then you're just giving into your biases.
The burden of proof lies on the person making the assertion, not the person who already doesn't believe them. I'm not spending half an hour to verify whether or not a reddit post of a 4chan post of a tweet of a tweet of a news post is true or not. Why can't you do it since you think it's so important? Where's your sense of responsibility then? As for me I'm using Hitchen's Razor.
And brother, I already gave you a paragraph explaining why I have trouble taking statistics at face value. This is the second time I'm reminding you of that. Go on, give me another reply saying I'm wrong for having healthy skepticism and that I don't back up my claims.
You want me to defend the claim in the OP? I didn't even claim to you that the stats in the OP were correct, and even if I had, I can't do your thinking for you.
You have every right to be skeptical about statistical claims, but don't be self-righteous about it. Blanket skepticism is just an excuse to dismiss things without doing the hard work of actually evaluating their truthfulness. You should not be proudly proclaiming your intellectual laziness, and others should not be cheering you on for it.
What part of "back up your argument and don't be a hypocrite," is not clear? Not mine or the statistics in question, YOUR argument.
You're really going to call me self righteous right after digging at me for not spending a half hour fact checking stats? There was no evidence asserted in this, just unverified numbers. I'm going to call on Hitchen's Razor for a third time. I'm conserving my time by not doing the research for the people making a claim, that's their responsibility. Is it not enough that I tried looking for the article in question and I can't find anything?
If I say there's a teapot orbiting tbe Earth am I correct to call you an idiot because you're not taking the time to verify no such thing exists? Who should provide that proof? The person who made a claim without proof or the idiot who's so intellectually lazy they don't take things at face value?
Clearly Hitchen's Razor doesn't apply here. The NYT article which is the source for the numbers almost without a doubt shows the evidence it is using to make the claim.
Just because the literal tweet doesn't have the evidence in it doesn't mean you can dismiss the claim, because you can easily source the evidence...
Are you listening to me even? I said I can't find the article in question and I still can't. I'm not going to spend any more time looking for something that isn't showing up. Go on, can you "easily source the evidence?" Give me the link.
It's not my responsibility to back up someone elses claim with evidence, they've done nothing to win me over. The claim could be true, neither of us know if the tweet is reporting what the NYT said since neither of us have seen it. I never dismissed it as proven false (I haven't seen evidence of that either), however the difference is I haven't seen evidence to prove it's correct.
Since I wasn't supplied evidence that I still can't find, I cannot critically assess something that I don't have access to. Why can't I use Hitchen's Razor and say it's not worth my time?
This article sources this site , whose numbers line up with the tweet. I found it by Googling, "NYT deaths from usaid cuts."
Now, all those numbers could be complete bullshit, and they admit there are wide levels of uncertainty around some of them, but hey, there's the source. I certainly don't have the capacity to poke holes in the analysis of this org, but it's possible that an expert has written a post somewhere going over their estimates and challenging them. I searched and couldn't find one, but somebody out there probably has done the work.
Anyway, sorry to be a jerk. You're right, it's best not to believe most numbers and claims at face value. If you tried to look up the numbers and couldn't find them, then you already did more due diligence than like 90% of people on the internet, so sorry again.
Wasn't I right to dismiss the tweet of a tweet of an article of an article then?
If that's the right article, the tweet was wrong in that NYT didn't compile that list because it was from CGDEV. That source says 2.3-5.6 million, preferably 3.3 million lives are saved by US foreign aid aid (not the United States Agency for International Development specifically). That's also an estimated 3.3 million lives saved, I don't know if that can just be flipped around to mean 3.3 million people definitely died from a lack of funding. I'm at the point where I'm not questioning the source and I don't think I can critically assess it to come up with a confident opinion, but the thing I'm concerned about looks like disinformation now.
Apology accepted and forgiveness given. I will say you are within the 1% of people who engage in online discourse and even think to apologize, I don't think you're malicious and this is a learning experience for the both of us.
Fuck, now that I have the sources I couldn't resist looking into it a little. Here's their methodology on the PEPFAR numbers (which is the USAID program to counter AIDS/HIV):
The state department says 20.6 million people are receiving anti-virals, and then the CGD uses a different paper (Glaubius et al 2021) which, according to the CGD, says that basically 8% of people without anti-virals die a year. They do this math: 20.6 * .08 = 1.648 million per year.
Except, the Gluabius paper doesn't actually specify an annual case fatality rate. Instead, it just says that the median survival rate for a 15-24 year old that is not on anti-virals is 12.5 years. I didn't understand how the CGD paper got 8% out of this, so I asked Gemini 2.5, and it explained that basically if the median survival rate is 12.5 years, that means 50% of them will have died by 12.5 years. So in each year, 1 year/12.5 years = 8%. 8% will die each year.
Except, of course, as we know, HIV does not kill at a steady rate. It takes quite a few years without treatment for HIV to turn into AIDS, so the vast majority of those deaths would NOT be in the first year like the tweets and the NYT article claim. There might be relatively few deaths in the first year, but there would be TONS of deaths in the next 12.5 years. Around half of the 20.6 million receiving anti-virals would be dead, and probably more than that due to increased transmission (of course, assuming no other countries start their own funding to pick up the slack). To be fair to the CGD, it probably is fair to say that PEPFAR saves 1.6 million lives a year, but it's NOT fair to say that 1.6 million people will die to AIDS this year without PEPFAR, but they're not making that claim.
So yeah, you were right to call bullshit. The tweets and the NYT article were both dead wrong, at least with the AIDS aspect (lets cut the NYT a little bit of slack, it is an opinion piece and therefore didn't have a rigorous vetting). Although, some of the other things listed, like Malaria, have more immediate effects, and actually might lead to deaths in the first year around those numbers, but I don't really know enough about them to look into them.
PS: ALSO the CGD seems to have their math wrong. If the median survival is 12.5 years, then you would expect half of the 20.6 million to be dead by year 12.5. So, it's 10.3 million divided by 12.5 years = .824 million dead per year, or 4%. It's half of what they said, which was 1.6 million, or 8%. That being said, it's a really rough estimate to begin with, and the 12.5 year median survival only applies to young people, and that survival rate is much worse for older people, so the numbers might not be THAT far off in the end anyway.
No, it's correctly surmising that all people have biases, all scientists have bosses and sponsors, and numbers can be made to say anything you want. Combine those things, and there is literally 0 reason to believe any major news that uses numbers on any controversial topic.
Or you could actually spend 20 minutes and look into the numbers and see how they arrived at their conclusion. Saying, "stats are lies sometimes so I'm going to assume this is a lie" is just submitting to your own bias.
The numbers lie. You have to look into methodology, assumptions, comparative studies, etc. And even then, they have straight out just lied in the past.
I understand your desire for it to be that simple, and that heckin’ science is there to support everything you believe, but it doesn’t.
I know, you have to look into all of that, and determining the truth is so hard. But if you don't put in the work, then you're just accepting whatever your bias is as the truth.
I'm not saying you have to evaluate every stat or claim that seems suspect, but you also shouldn't dismiss every claim that seems crazy, just because stats are often lies. This is abdicating your responsibility as a thinking person to verify the truth.
It was direct and intentional policy to gut USAID. And they have a pretty good idea of how many lives USAID was saving because they know how much the programs cost and how many people the aid went to.
No, it wasn't Trump's intention to kill 3 million people, but if no other country steps in, it will be the result of his direct and intentional policies.
Is this an argument for aid to save African lives or against it? Because anybody could easily argue that the aid that saved Africans ultimately was to our long term benefit, both in creating allies in devekoping countries, and in reducing disease transmission.
I remember hearing something about how a pretty big chunk of Africans do reject Aids/Malaria and vaccines for other stuff which is basically wasted hundreds of millions
And donating to Hamas/Palestinians or organizations giving food to them is kinda useless cause Isreal just keeps most of it anyway and the ones that do somehow make it just get taken by hamas soldiers instead of civillians that need it
I guess you could blame Trump for how many Ukrainians died from January-mid April 2025 cause he refused to send anything before Putin rejected his deal and Trump finally got pissed and started sending billions and military equipment to Ukraine again but at the same time it's the EU's fault too for buying russian gas still and sending the absolute bare minimum to Ukraine
Even in the case if blaming him for withholding funds for Ukraine like you said, it's still indirect. Ukraine is at war and Russia is a lot more directly involved in that. So you can't really compare not giving another country aid to the systematic killing of 3 million Cambodians.
How is canceling aid not a direct and intentional policy? There are people dying right now that would not have if the medicine / food was delivered. It's that simple. I'm not sure about the veracity of these exact numbers, but his hands are most certainly not clean.
But orange man bad. Not the super duper wholsomerino people and institutions who misappropriate their funding and conduct themselves in such a way that they need to be penalized.
Just think about it, how else are terrorists supposed to do THEIR job appropriately when they are no longer protected by the judiciary and don't get the money to feed themselves? How could orange man ever do such a thing?
"Comprehensive estimates of a year without USAID." That's what the original post appears to be talking about. If you look at that verbiage, it implies that we're not even talking about deaths that have actually happened. The reposter may not have even processed that they're talking about virtual deaths. Like an uncollapsed wave function. Probabilistic death being compared to the Killing Fields alright bro
This is essentially the New York Times making a fucked up parlay on the value of USAID in human life across the world. Also we're not told if those numbers are supposed to be the total or the delta, or what the delta from the past year or 5 year average would be. I was able to find this statistic for 2023 that estimates the upper limit for AIDS deaths at 820k. Hm, 1.65 mil estimated this year. You have to wonder if they're just taking last year's death counts and multiplying them by 2.
And now what's really fucked up is they've created this weird incentive for themselves to almost have to root for an appreciable delta increase of deaths this year or else they look wrong and USAID looks useless. And something tells me the, hm let's think of a nice big boy word here, ah yes how about the ATTRIBUTIVE CRITERIA of what counts as a death from any of this hot parlay of death stats suddenly get sweeping expansions to the ever-shifting fluid language of their definitions. Language is always evolving after all
Everything about this is garbage. Just assuming you're the Anon (no diss to him) who took that screenshot, you're reading a twitter reply to a post on twitter paraphrasing an article that compiled figures that we don't see. You have to be real dumb to see this and believe it without question. I can't even find the article.
I can tolerate one or two layers of separation, I have to if I want to use this sub. And I do enjoy this sub. It's regularly screenshots of 4chan posts. But this is five layers of separation, it's a bit ridiculous.
They might not be used to open and honest discussions with accountability and are instead looking for ways to go back to the before times because that's what worked and you trust what works. Although I am a believer of the path less traveled and if I don't like either then think of something else.
Those statistics seem like complete bullshit. I'm guessing it's taking some liberties with causality and attributing a lot of generous estimates to one factor.
The US is seeing a boost in national manufacturing from companies that are now finding it economically favorable to manufacture in the US rather than China. With a reduction in illegals, companies are now having to pay Americans to do the work.
As an economic policy, penalizing foreign interests and protecting national ones has always been the successful approach. Just look at Japan or China.
Unbridled free market economics have been disastrous for pretty much every country that's tried them. That's something the political left has been saying for decades. Yet, now it's Trump trying to reduce their effect in the US, the left are supportive of them.
Up to a point the free exchange of goods and services is a good thing, but it has to be between countries that have similar costs of labor, and similar productivity. China warps the market, not just because it has a vast population who'll work for much less than Americans, but because it also has vast technical and productive capability. The Trump administration has placed a finger on the scales to bias production towards the US again.
Funding other countries while we ourselves have poor infrastructure and poverty. No fucking way I'm paying my taxes just for another country to benefit from it. There are many deaths in America of drug abuse and lack of mental health care. Also NY times is extremely biased. They have not taken a neutral stance since Trump got elected.
It makes me feel like anon is a fucking liar, and it's going to yet again become more difficult for anyone who's actually being truthful about sharing bad things about the guy to convince anyone that they're being honest.
Severe-Rope-3026@reddit
if i knew this was his policy i wouldve voted twice
Tendi_Loving_Care@reddit
like most dems, then?
stringerbbell@reddit
Yeah just like the dems with those voting booths which Biden personally traveled to South America to learn how to rig to flip votes even those they don't use the same software and because nobody in the US could possibly know how to do it. The only thing stolen in the 2020 election was brain cells.
AntDracula@reddit
stringerbbell@reddit
Mail in and early voting because of the pandemic.
AntDracula@reddit
Sure bud. All covered by just that Z
stringerbbell@reddit
Considering election day is on a workday and not a national holiday and the 2020 election allowed anyone to vote early or by mail... Yeah., common sense that a lot more people voted.
AntDracula@reddit
lol 10 MILLION more people. Fucking turbo cope
stringerbbell@reddit
Yeah, huge drop off when you don't have millions sitting home with nothing to do, early voting, mail in votes, plus the dems swapped in kamala and why would anyone vote her?
AntDracula@reddit
Yeah 10 million just decided "screw it" after voting to get rid of LE HITLER.
Sure bud.
stringerbbell@reddit
Kamala is the worst candidate ever run according to GOP and nobody voted for her. But if you want to believe that Biden personally went to South America to study voting machine software, then I can't help you.
AntDracula@reddit
10 million.
Hydraxiler32@reddit
I mailed in 4 million Kamala ballots to Pennsylvania, still waiting for them to be counted
Ilikemobkeys52@reddit
So that's where the 4 million ballots I ate came from
Hydraxiler32@reddit
pretty sure that's voter fraud buddy, you're getting sent to El Salvador
Eldorado2533@reddit
This is the kind of lying with statistics that makes me question everything. If you were to tell someone “president trump killed 3.2 million people” you would think it was as a result of direct and intentional policies to do so. But no, it’s nitpicking data and attributing blame. It’s the same shit you saw with Covid so much of the time. It’s all very tiring.
Brussel_Rand@reddit
It's why I have a hard time believing statistics especially at face value, you never know if the numbers are manipulated or people are taking the study wildly out of context.
I remember a while ago there was a study that "proved," that hunter gatherers didn't have predominantly male hunters and female gatherers. The study did show that women were just as likely if not more likely to be hunters, but the way they got that data was by mostly looking at modern tribes which isn't what people are thinking of when they hear the term reserved for ancient humans. Looking back at the study quickly there were other issues were if women ever participated in hunting (ie not regularly) of any kind (including small game) that counted as hunting.
Not to mention all your women make 79 cents for every dollar a man makes, oreos are more addictive than cocaine, you have to drink seven glasses of water a day, and all those other lies people still believe
oadephon@reddit
This is the "science is wrong sometimes" argument, used to just dismiss numbers you don't like without even having to think.
Brussel_Rand@reddit
How do you expect me to respond to this? I said I don't believe statistics at face value, I don't think you do that with anything, and then I provided an example to my claim so I wasn't making a sweeping generalization that statistics are bad just because.
Then you respond with an oversimplification of my viewpoint because I'm dismissing "something I don't like without even having to think," and yet what are you doing right now? Dismissing something you don't like without even having to think. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Back up your argument and don't be a hypocrite.
womerah@reddit
What value is there in saying you don't believe statistics at face value, if you don't then subsequently go deeper to verify said statistics?
What you're saying amounts to "I don't believe what's on the news", which is OK, but not really a stance of particular intellectual rigour.
Brussel_Rand@reddit
I'm never claimed to be intellectually enlightened. I can't take everything at face value because I don't have the time or empathy to verify everything, I do fall for incorrect information all the time. The value is found in the time I get to keep by not entertaining dubious information.
womerah@reddit
Bombarding you with too much information so you tune out is a propaganda tactic though.
I agree, but is your objection that it's not a primary source but a nested screenshot? Or do you not like the NYT? Or do you only entertain information you already consider credibly true (so confirmation bias?
My only point is that it's hard to navigate the media landscape
AntDracula@reddit
This is most certainly not required. I can literally just ignore headlines and my life doesn't change at all.
womerah@reddit
That's just "I don't trust the news" sentiment though.
Nothing wrong with it, but it's odd to act like this is some great insight.
AntDracula@reddit
I'll wait while you show where I did that.
womerah@reddit
Well you're not the guy I initially replied to, so a bit hard
AntDracula@reddit
There ya go.
oadephon@reddit
You're supposed to spend half an hour actually looking into numbers and trying to verify if they could be accurate.
Don't just throw away your responsibility as a thinking person with a cliche like "stats are used to manipulate people and are lies sometimes." Skepticism is smart and healthy, but if you stop at skepticism and don't try to actually determine the truth, then you're just giving into your biases.
Brussel_Rand@reddit
Great, you didn't back up your claim at all.
The burden of proof lies on the person making the assertion, not the person who already doesn't believe them. I'm not spending half an hour to verify whether or not a reddit post of a 4chan post of a tweet of a tweet of a news post is true or not. Why can't you do it since you think it's so important? Where's your sense of responsibility then? As for me I'm using Hitchen's Razor.
And brother, I already gave you a paragraph explaining why I have trouble taking statistics at face value. This is the second time I'm reminding you of that. Go on, give me another reply saying I'm wrong for having healthy skepticism and that I don't back up my claims.
oadephon@reddit
You want me to defend the claim in the OP? I didn't even claim to you that the stats in the OP were correct, and even if I had, I can't do your thinking for you.
You have every right to be skeptical about statistical claims, but don't be self-righteous about it. Blanket skepticism is just an excuse to dismiss things without doing the hard work of actually evaluating their truthfulness. You should not be proudly proclaiming your intellectual laziness, and others should not be cheering you on for it.
Brussel_Rand@reddit
What part of "back up your argument and don't be a hypocrite," is not clear? Not mine or the statistics in question, YOUR argument.
You're really going to call me self righteous right after digging at me for not spending a half hour fact checking stats? There was no evidence asserted in this, just unverified numbers. I'm going to call on Hitchen's Razor for a third time. I'm conserving my time by not doing the research for the people making a claim, that's their responsibility. Is it not enough that I tried looking for the article in question and I can't find anything?
If I say there's a teapot orbiting tbe Earth am I correct to call you an idiot because you're not taking the time to verify no such thing exists? Who should provide that proof? The person who made a claim without proof or the idiot who's so intellectually lazy they don't take things at face value?
oadephon@reddit
Clearly Hitchen's Razor doesn't apply here. The NYT article which is the source for the numbers almost without a doubt shows the evidence it is using to make the claim.
Just because the literal tweet doesn't have the evidence in it doesn't mean you can dismiss the claim, because you can easily source the evidence...
Brussel_Rand@reddit
Are you listening to me even? I said I can't find the article in question and I still can't. I'm not going to spend any more time looking for something that isn't showing up. Go on, can you "easily source the evidence?" Give me the link.
It's not my responsibility to back up someone elses claim with evidence, they've done nothing to win me over. The claim could be true, neither of us know if the tweet is reporting what the NYT said since neither of us have seen it. I never dismissed it as proven false (I haven't seen evidence of that either), however the difference is I haven't seen evidence to prove it's correct.
Since I wasn't supplied evidence that I still can't find, I cannot critically assess something that I don't have access to. Why can't I use Hitchen's Razor and say it's not worth my time?
oadephon@reddit
This article sources this site , whose numbers line up with the tweet. I found it by Googling, "NYT deaths from usaid cuts."
Now, all those numbers could be complete bullshit, and they admit there are wide levels of uncertainty around some of them, but hey, there's the source. I certainly don't have the capacity to poke holes in the analysis of this org, but it's possible that an expert has written a post somewhere going over their estimates and challenging them. I searched and couldn't find one, but somebody out there probably has done the work.
Anyway, sorry to be a jerk. You're right, it's best not to believe most numbers and claims at face value. If you tried to look up the numbers and couldn't find them, then you already did more due diligence than like 90% of people on the internet, so sorry again.
Brussel_Rand@reddit
Wasn't I right to dismiss the tweet of a tweet of an article of an article then?
If that's the right article, the tweet was wrong in that NYT didn't compile that list because it was from CGDEV. That source says 2.3-5.6 million, preferably 3.3 million lives are saved by US foreign aid aid (not the United States Agency for International Development specifically). That's also an estimated 3.3 million lives saved, I don't know if that can just be flipped around to mean 3.3 million people definitely died from a lack of funding. I'm at the point where I'm not questioning the source and I don't think I can critically assess it to come up with a confident opinion, but the thing I'm concerned about looks like disinformation now.
Apology accepted and forgiveness given. I will say you are within the 1% of people who engage in online discourse and even think to apologize, I don't think you're malicious and this is a learning experience for the both of us.
oadephon@reddit
Fuck, now that I have the sources I couldn't resist looking into it a little. Here's their methodology on the PEPFAR numbers (which is the USAID program to counter AIDS/HIV):
The state department says 20.6 million people are receiving anti-virals, and then the CGD uses a different paper (Glaubius et al 2021) which, according to the CGD, says that basically 8% of people without anti-virals die a year. They do this math: 20.6 * .08 = 1.648 million per year.
Except, the Gluabius paper doesn't actually specify an annual case fatality rate. Instead, it just says that the median survival rate for a 15-24 year old that is not on anti-virals is 12.5 years. I didn't understand how the CGD paper got 8% out of this, so I asked Gemini 2.5, and it explained that basically if the median survival rate is 12.5 years, that means 50% of them will have died by 12.5 years. So in each year, 1 year/12.5 years = 8%. 8% will die each year.
Except, of course, as we know, HIV does not kill at a steady rate. It takes quite a few years without treatment for HIV to turn into AIDS, so the vast majority of those deaths would NOT be in the first year like the tweets and the NYT article claim. There might be relatively few deaths in the first year, but there would be TONS of deaths in the next 12.5 years. Around half of the 20.6 million receiving anti-virals would be dead, and probably more than that due to increased transmission (of course, assuming no other countries start their own funding to pick up the slack). To be fair to the CGD, it probably is fair to say that PEPFAR saves 1.6 million lives a year, but it's NOT fair to say that 1.6 million people will die to AIDS this year without PEPFAR, but they're not making that claim.
So yeah, you were right to call bullshit. The tweets and the NYT article were both dead wrong, at least with the AIDS aspect (lets cut the NYT a little bit of slack, it is an opinion piece and therefore didn't have a rigorous vetting). Although, some of the other things listed, like Malaria, have more immediate effects, and actually might lead to deaths in the first year around those numbers, but I don't really know enough about them to look into them.
PS: ALSO the CGD seems to have their math wrong. If the median survival is 12.5 years, then you would expect half of the 20.6 million to be dead by year 12.5. So, it's 10.3 million divided by 12.5 years = .824 million dead per year, or 4%. It's half of what they said, which was 1.6 million, or 8%. That being said, it's a really rough estimate to begin with, and the 12.5 year median survival only applies to young people, and that survival rate is much worse for older people, so the numbers might not be THAT far off in the end anyway.
AntDracula@reddit
No, it's correctly surmising that all people have biases, all scientists have bosses and sponsors, and numbers can be made to say anything you want. Combine those things, and there is literally 0 reason to believe any major news that uses numbers on any controversial topic.
oadephon@reddit
Or you could actually spend 20 minutes and look into the numbers and see how they arrived at their conclusion. Saying, "stats are lies sometimes so I'm going to assume this is a lie" is just submitting to your own bias.
AntDracula@reddit
The numbers lie. You have to look into methodology, assumptions, comparative studies, etc. And even then, they have straight out just lied in the past.
I understand your desire for it to be that simple, and that heckin’ science is there to support everything you believe, but it doesn’t.
oadephon@reddit
I know, you have to look into all of that, and determining the truth is so hard. But if you don't put in the work, then you're just accepting whatever your bias is as the truth.
I'm not saying you have to evaluate every stat or claim that seems suspect, but you also shouldn't dismiss every claim that seems crazy, just because stats are often lies. This is abdicating your responsibility as a thinking person to verify the truth.
AntDracula@reddit
If you dismiss all mainstream information, you’ll be correct more often than you’ll be wrong.
Just look at the food pyramid.
oadephon@reddit
Yeah this is just an excuse to stop thinking.
AntDracula@reddit
Your comment is an excuse to stop thinking
oadephon@reddit
It was direct and intentional policy to gut USAID. And they have a pretty good idea of how many lives USAID was saving because they know how much the programs cost and how many people the aid went to.
No, it wasn't Trump's intention to kill 3 million people, but if no other country steps in, it will be the result of his direct and intentional policies.
FremanBloodglaive@reddit
Remember, USAID doesn't mean "US aid".
AID means Agency for International Development, which means putting money anywhere that will ultimately benefit the United States.
oadephon@reddit
Is this an argument for aid to save African lives or against it? Because anybody could easily argue that the aid that saved Africans ultimately was to our long term benefit, both in creating allies in devekoping countries, and in reducing disease transmission.
AntDracula@reddit
Kentuckyfriedmemes66@reddit
I remember hearing something about how a pretty big chunk of Africans do reject Aids/Malaria and vaccines for other stuff which is basically wasted hundreds of millions
And donating to Hamas/Palestinians or organizations giving food to them is kinda useless cause Isreal just keeps most of it anyway and the ones that do somehow make it just get taken by hamas soldiers instead of civillians that need it
I guess you could blame Trump for how many Ukrainians died from January-mid April 2025 cause he refused to send anything before Putin rejected his deal and Trump finally got pissed and started sending billions and military equipment to Ukraine again but at the same time it's the EU's fault too for buying russian gas still and sending the absolute bare minimum to Ukraine
johnny_effing_utah@reddit
So Putin commands an army that kills thousands of Ukrainians but Trump is to blame?
I_FAP_TO_TURKEYS@reddit
He said he'd have the war ended before he even got into office (or Day 1, depending on when you heard him speak)... So in a way yeah.
yaangyiing_@reddit
well it's because trump works for russia 😂
hobbinater2@reddit
Europe denouncing Russia while financially supporting them with gas purchases is just a sad state of affairs.
Brussel_Rand@reddit
Even in the case if blaming him for withholding funds for Ukraine like you said, it's still indirect. Ukraine is at war and Russia is a lot more directly involved in that. So you can't really compare not giving another country aid to the systematic killing of 3 million Cambodians.
HeidelbergianYehZiq1@reddit
There’s sin of omission…
Eldorado2533@reddit
That may be, but you’re missing the point. I feel like you know this.
AntDracula@reddit
"""Experts""" will burn all of their public credibility to take one impotent swipe at Orange Man.
IncandescentAxolotl@reddit
How is canceling aid not a direct and intentional policy? There are people dying right now that would not have if the medicine / food was delivered. It's that simple. I'm not sure about the veracity of these exact numbers, but his hands are most certainly not clean.
Much_Track4277@reddit (OP)
By the same logic I'm costing Netflix hundreds of dollars for not renewing my subscription lol
edbods@reddit
pirates cost millions each year downloading movies and games that they wouldn't have bought in the first place
LwySafari@reddit
you asshole
cosplay-degenerate@reddit
But orange man bad. Not the super duper wholsomerino people and institutions who misappropriate their funding and conduct themselves in such a way that they need to be penalized.
Just think about it, how else are terrorists supposed to do THEIR job appropriately when they are no longer protected by the judiciary and don't get the money to feed themselves? How could orange man ever do such a thing?
TomtheWonderDog@reddit
It's the same type of people who say "Capitalism has killed more people than Communism" and they cite every human who has died in the last 250 years.
CTblDHO@reddit
But they saved 210 millions lives who would overdose on fent
Chadzuma@reddit
"Comprehensive estimates of a year without USAID." That's what the original post appears to be talking about. If you look at that verbiage, it implies that we're not even talking about deaths that have actually happened. The reposter may not have even processed that they're talking about virtual deaths. Like an uncollapsed wave function. Probabilistic death being compared to the Killing Fields alright bro
This is essentially the New York Times making a fucked up parlay on the value of USAID in human life across the world. Also we're not told if those numbers are supposed to be the total or the delta, or what the delta from the past year or 5 year average would be. I was able to find this statistic for 2023 that estimates the upper limit for AIDS deaths at 820k. Hm, 1.65 mil estimated this year. You have to wonder if they're just taking last year's death counts and multiplying them by 2.
And now what's really fucked up is they've created this weird incentive for themselves to almost have to root for an appreciable delta increase of deaths this year or else they look wrong and USAID looks useless. And something tells me the, hm let's think of a nice big boy word here, ah yes how about the ATTRIBUTIVE CRITERIA of what counts as a death from any of this hot parlay of death stats suddenly get sweeping expansions to the ever-shifting fluid language of their definitions. Language is always evolving after all
littlediddlemanz@reddit
It’s why nobody cares about anything anymore. Any headline you read is always pure bullshit like this
Brussel_Rand@reddit
Everything about this is garbage. Just assuming you're the Anon (no diss to him) who took that screenshot, you're reading a twitter reply to a post on twitter paraphrasing an article that compiled figures that we don't see. You have to be real dumb to see this and believe it without question. I can't even find the article.
max_power_420_69@reddit
dude the front page of this website is mostly undated twitter screenshots
Brussel_Rand@reddit
I can tolerate one or two layers of separation, I have to if I want to use this sub. And I do enjoy this sub. It's regularly screenshots of 4chan posts. But this is five layers of separation, it's a bit ridiculous.
Taken_Abroad_Book@reddit
Weird how the leaders in countries where those people died didn't do shit to stop it.
cosplay-degenerate@reddit
They might not be used to open and honest discussions with accountability and are instead looking for ways to go back to the before times because that's what worked and you trust what works. Although I am a believer of the path less traveled and if I don't like either then think of something else.
Taken_Abroad_Book@reddit
Or they're NPC reciting orange man bad
IncandescentAxolotl@reddit
Orange man does dumbass actions while being the leader of the most powerful nation on earth -> people get upset
"HAHAHA LOOK THAT THOSE NPC "ORANGE MAN BAD" HAHAH I AM THE DIFFERENT"
You are trying so hard to be a contrarian that you become an NPC, just that its on the right side.
Taken_Abroad_Book@reddit
Don't you have the whole rest of reddit?
GandalfTheGimp@reddit
Food aid cripples local economies and has directly kept Africa in poverty
Responsible-Onion860@reddit
Those statistics seem like complete bullshit. I'm guessing it's taking some liberties with causality and attributing a lot of generous estimates to one factor.
Efficient_Rise_4140@reddit
Sometimes you need the richest man in the world to kill the poorest people in the world.
ThirstyOutward@reddit
This kind of content is all it takes to distract conserva cucks from the horrible economic policy and gross government over reach going on.
FremanBloodglaive@reddit
The US is seeing a boost in national manufacturing from companies that are now finding it economically favorable to manufacture in the US rather than China. With a reduction in illegals, companies are now having to pay Americans to do the work.
As an economic policy, penalizing foreign interests and protecting national ones has always been the successful approach. Just look at Japan or China.
Unbridled free market economics have been disastrous for pretty much every country that's tried them. That's something the political left has been saying for decades. Yet, now it's Trump trying to reduce their effect in the US, the left are supportive of them.
Up to a point the free exchange of goods and services is a good thing, but it has to be between countries that have similar costs of labor, and similar productivity. China warps the market, not just because it has a vast population who'll work for much less than Americans, but because it also has vast technical and productive capability. The Trump administration has placed a finger on the scales to bias production towards the US again.
woman_tickler049@reddit
Did he personally went in there and sandy hooked them future lebrons?
HighDegree@reddit
Politely ask where they got those numbers from, and the response is usually some overly complicated explanation of how they made it the fuck up.
codeXjs002@reddit
Funding other countries while we ourselves have poor infrastructure and poverty. No fucking way I'm paying my taxes just for another country to benefit from it. There are many deaths in America of drug abuse and lack of mental health care. Also NY times is extremely biased. They have not taken a neutral stance since Trump got elected.
ConscientiousPath@reddit
It makes me feel like anon is a fucking liar, and it's going to yet again become more difficult for anyone who's actually being truthful about sharing bad things about the guy to convince anyone that they're being honest.
creamygarlicdip@reddit
I don't get the tariffs
HiveMindKing@reddit
My man