Heck, I went and worked as a handyman for two years even in a (comparatively) good market because I genuinely just wanted the fuck out of the industry for a little while.

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Ryanvarley@reddit

Good question. From my network, they keep trying and are generally landing jobs — it’s just taking a lot longer. Three to six months is very common, and nine to fifteen months isn’t uncommon.

The lucky ones have an existing role during those nine to fifteen months.

No one I know left the field, but I’m sure it’s happened. A few did something else like bar work or supermarket delivery whilst looking to pay the bills.

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This is evil and shouldnt be allowed in a civilized country.

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EastClevelandBest@reddit

Can't land a job since 2022. I was in DevOps/ Cloud Engineering. 10 YOE I had to move to the poorest city in the US - East Cleveland. Bought a house for 20k.

Making money by mowing grass, cutting tree limbs etc. Still applying for jobs but so far all in vain.

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rocket333d@reddit

I can tell you what happened to me. I was laid off at 4YOE and it was about 2.5 years before I got my current job, which is a big step back and isn't a dev job.

I honestly can't make sense of my experience in the job market other than a terrible market and terrible luck. For the first few months I was somewhat picky, but after that I dropped almost all requirements.

In the interim I sold my car and moved to a cheaper apartment while getting a front desk/answering phones job that didn't quite pay my bills.

I went to school and worked full time through my late 20s and early 30s, and put myself in a lot of debt to get into CS. The thought of pouring even more money and more effort into starting over in a new field makes me feel sick.

Right now I'm just breathing and trying to dig myself out of the mental and financial hole. I'm glad not to be grinding at this moment in time.

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vortilad@reddit

Just curious how it is elsewhere. Were/are you looking you in a big tech hub?

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rocket333d@reddit

Boston, so not a big tech hub, but pretty decent. Unfortunately, wasn't able to relocate due to my partner's job.

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vortilad@reddit

Yeah still a decent sized city. Thought I would be better off in NYC but it still took about four months before I took a payout because I simply didn’t want to go without an income in this city for too long.

not that I’m comparing that length of time, just expected there’d be more options here.

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the_fresh_cucumber@reddit

Sorry to hear that.

That's where I think the "big salary" stereotype about tech is a bit of a lie and is dependent on the times you live in.

If you have spent over 1\3 of your career unemployed, that means a 150k expected salary is really just 100k.

Not exactly. Interest rates went up in mid 2022, which caused a lot of tech companies to focus more on efficiency. It seemed like everybody went into hiring freezes in fall 2022 and then enormous layoffs in early 2023, flooding the market with great talent.

Also, Section 174 of the tax cut bill went into affect that increased the tax burden on R&D as well as tech employee salaries. I believe this is part of the issue.

I've read that the market is slowly improving since interest rates have been cut. I do believe the job market will improve in time, but I hope the standards will come down a bit. It seems like right now businesses are only looking for people who code in their sleep.

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wow just over 2 yrs

17 yoe and i was unemployed 21 months

found the perfect job, but my personal life got in the way, i was let go after 6 months

this time around feels much harder to just get a reply back

made it to 1 final round but kinda dropped the ball on that one - just hoping it was all cobbwebs

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ssrowavay@reddit

It's tough out there. For me, I don't think cobwebs are the issue. I have come to the conclusion that I'm generally terrible at interviewing. I just don't think that fast. I think thoroughly and deeply. I wade through some bad ideas on the way to some good ones. Must interviewers these days want near perfect solutions in a ~ 30 minute timeframe, and that just isn't me.

Anyhow, best of luck. Sorry that last job didn't work out, but I'm sure you'll find something great!

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Super-Blackberry19@reddit

Same here. I just suck. 4.5 months in I'm getting better but I have a lot to work on, specifically pressure/time based coding. I don't even usually get the big scary med/hard LC ppl talk about, I choke LC easy equivalents

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besseddrest@reddit

yeah i think ill be fine i just need the call back, generally i feel prepared for interviews - i was actually thrown a curveball with a technical question i've done before and knew the algo required, but didn't think the question woul dhave been so easy for the role i was interviewing for.

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ssrowavay@reddit

Ah. Yeah the easy ones can be misleading when you expect hard ones.

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besseddrest@reddit

lol it was kinda bad, i was like "okay, this is best solved with recursion" and then i just couldn't get my logic right

so, defeated, when i got home i just finished the problem and sent to the interviewer - I definitely knew it wasn't gonna help my case (though, given the times, you got nothin to lose). Mostly I was just embarrassed and felt I needed to close that one out.

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TheBear8878@reddit

For people in out industry, personal finance acumen is essential. People with a really good emergency fund buffer rarely get into the situation OP described, because they were able to wait it out until they did get an offer.

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Vegetable_Wishbone92@reddit

Sure, but it's not just money. The longer you're unemployed, the harder it is to get a good offer. Not impossible, but harder to avoid rejection if you've been unemployed for that.

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MinimumArmadillo2394@reddit

And it's a lot harder to actually reject when someone sends you a lowball offer, has obvious red flags during interviews, etc.

My current company had a few red flags during the process. For example, the recruiter said 1 range, then the company told the recruiter a lower number outside of that range that they'd make an offer at, then the offer letter came in with an even lower number. They also took over a week between the final interview and sending me the offer even though I was the only candidate (and then it came in lower than expected). They also told me it was a hybrid role but they left out that it would potentially be hybrid after 6 months. I also told them through every step that I had PTO planned in March and may for a week each that I planned before I even knew about the company and they said it was fine since I get 2 weeks of PTO.

I started in February and day 1 of my PTO they made all of my requested (and approved) PTO unpaid.

I've been seriously trying to find a position ever since.

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CharacterSchedule700@reddit

They also took over a week between the final interview and sending me the offer even though I was the only candidate (and then it came in lower than expected).

This happened to me, only it was over a month between the interview and the offer. The offer came in a position lower and $10k below their lower bound of the original position.

I responded and said I was really put off by the offer. It wasn't what I applied to, nor would I have applied to it given my current role. They came back with a slightly higher offer and a signing bonus.

I was going to call back on Monday, but over the weekend they announced that they went into FDIC receivership (one of the banks that failed a couple of years ago)

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besseddrest@reddit

what the heck

like how can the comms be sooooooo inconsistent

freshhorsemanure@reddit

If its your own contracting business, how would your clients come up on a background check?

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Vegetable_Wishbone92@reddit

I don't know, getting into a George Costanza web of lies sounds like more trouble than it's worth. If you say you've been contracting, then you'll have to come up with some fake stories to tell regarding your contract work, and, if you get the job, you'll have to be hyper alert about keeping that lie alive.

A lot of companies already publish this kind of information, and it's trivial to verify by a machine. It's not even the company, the recruiting company does it with no one having to do anything

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alpacaMyToothbrush@reddit

You might not care, but a guarantee you HR checks it. You can bend the truth a little, but don't lie

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Yeah that is definitely true

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callmejay@reddit

Well I'm fucked then.

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prisencotech@reddit

As a contractor, it's feast or famine so I keep my living expenses at 40% of my salary.

I can't imagine being paycheck to paycheck in tech. This industry has never valued stable employment.

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darksparkone@reddit

Pretty sure you could seal a very stable job if you go for a really average salary/fun wise soul-sucking position. Something government perhaps?

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prisencotech@reddit

Something government perhaps

After two months mine said to me "You are a much nicer person since you are not working!"

Working-Revenue-9882@reddit

There is unspoken rule in high paced teams do not hire anyone with 10 years or more of experience.

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Strus@reddit

It’s more like “hire young people without family so they can work 24/7” rule.

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Working-Revenue-9882@reddit

Yup

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omscsgathrowaway@reddit

High paced teams is just a spin on exploitative jobs that take advantage of desperate young juniors by overworking them for peanuts. No thanks bro.

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YahenP@reddit

It's individual, of course, but my choice would be - another career. Maybe for the US it's difficult, but I live in a country where the salary in the IT sector is not something special. A normal average salary. The same money is earned, for example, by a city bus driver.

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I'm not saying you should feel guilty, I'm saying the guy pretending changing careers won't impact QOL is out of touch.

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superide@reddit

I actually read a story on Reddit about someone who left the tech sector to train as a school bus driver because he couldn't find any work in tech anymore

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Daxnn@reddit

What country out of interest?

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Be sure you enjoy math, because that’s 99% of a ML degree.

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rdditfilter@reddit

Math, computer theory, algorithms, etc etc etc. Enjoying it is just like the first step, Id have to actually be smart enough to get through the course material.

Hopefully I keep my current job and don’t end up in that position cause it wont be easy

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kfmnm@reddit

"or all jobs will require ai experience"

If the market is going that way, most jobs still won't require the skills that you learn by getting an ai degree. In the case of AI taking off massively, most jobs will still be about utilizing, not building it.

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rdditfilter@reddit

You don’t think a masters in ai will help you get a job at a company who’s just utilizing ai?

The hiring staff doesn’t know what theyre doing with ai. The checkboxes they were given say ‘needs ai’

You’re acting like a masters in an actual program that will teach you how to build ai models is something you can just shit out. Its probably the most difficult computer science related program. Most people who try to complete it will fail.

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kfmnm@reddit

Dude learn to read and understand what you're reading, then reply again and i might answer.

What a gigantic pile of unrelated bullshit..

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DrXaos@reddit

There's tons and tons and tons of candidates with ML degrees all trying to get jobs right now... number of ML jobs is low in absolute numbers, much lower than standard software development.

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rdditfilter@reddit

I work with people who have degrees in machine learning. They can go anywhere they want. They’re all fucking brilliant. Some of them hold patents.

A good program having anything to do with AI theory is worth its salt right now if you can actually finish it, which, honestly, its going to give me a run for my money Im not sure I can.

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ThatFeelingIsBliss88@reddit

You’re probably talking about people with no just a ML degree, but the actual experience to back it up. That’s massively different than having a degree alone.

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rdditfilter@reddit

They started out with just a ML degree and ended up building their own text chunking algorithm. They did that right out of school. I think people on this sub dont know what an actual ML masters is lol

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KrispyCuckak@reddit

Work experience beats degrees, just saying. Also, most work experience can't be completely directly verified, if you know what I mean.

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notchatgptipromise@reddit (OP)

I'm looking for a regular dev job now since I'm tired of the stress of what I've been doing. But I need it to be remote for family reasons, which cuts down my job pool a lot :/

WranglerNo7097@reddit

Hah, I also went from a staff role at an A-tier company, to a senior role at a slightly less prestigious one..it's honestly the sweet spot of $ and still enjoying what you do

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socialist-viking@reddit

I've given up. Luckily, my wife is employed. I spent four years interviewing, and came to the conclusion that 50% of the companies I interviewed with were not actually serious about hiring and the other 50% were never going to hire a 50-yo. I'm much happier having given up, but without my wife I would be homeless. I work on trying to find contract work when I can, but I've put in a lot of effort without much result.

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CarelessPackage1982@reddit

The ageism is rampant in the industry. They don't tell you, you're middle age in the industry in your early 30's, 40's you better be in management because you're already screwed most likely.

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If you’ve had a long successful career in software, by the time hit 35-40 you should be stockpiling money because this is an extremely ageist industry.

Save enough so that you can retire and call it a day. Getting to 2-5 million at 55 (excluding 401k) should be a reasonable target given how well compensated you are in general.

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the300bros@reddit

My cynical side says that the future Terminator robots will kill off everyone with a job first. They are the tripwire. You will be one of the survivors fighting the machines.

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PressureAppropriate@reddit

I took a 100k/year pay cut.

unironically same but mostly from lost bonus money

i bought based on my old no-bonus salary from like 2020 in 2022 so i'm comfortable, not down payment or pay off student loan or catch up on retirement savings comfortable, but i'm fine for a while

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chargers949@reddit

Fuck i thought i got hit hard at 60k pay cut.

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zica-do-reddit@reddit

I'm unemployed right now and will start my own company. My last job turned toxic and I had to quit.

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SolvingProblemsB2B@reddit

This is what I did. I'm on my business profile here as well. I highly recommend it. It's a rollercoaster, and I would say it's not for everyone. If you have any questions, feel free to comment here or DM me. Times like these are when businesses are born/forged in fire for the next boom.

Do some work for a non-profit. Keeps you busy; looks nice on resume; can make you some contacts outside your normal sphere - often the contacts are executives/managers at other companies - also good for your own morale - helped develop a three year technology for a private school ( network, servers, desktops, laptop strategy, per department software packages )

Look into consulting firms that specialize in migrating companies OFF the technology you know well.

Study and get certified in some new technology. Use that as the headline on your resume. Do some personal projects in the new tech so you learn some of the good/bad/ugly aspects.

Look into any software vendors that you know well.
Try and contact their consulting arm.

Another area that worked for me between gigs: do some work for local government - town level. Often they have small problems that an experienced dev can knock off easily. Examples: Utility to convert data from one system to another or from one format to another Needed extra hands to help with town wide upgrade - new hardware, new os, new version of apps Helped the town adopt and install a GIS based management system - utilities, taxes, etc. since I could do 80% of the routine work they saved a bunch on expensive vendor support costs.

One caveat: if the project requires three months elapsed time make sure you can finish it. Don’t start and quit four weeks later.

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nomiinomii@reddit

If you're in tech you should have enough savings by 40ish years old to retire (or live off a low paying service job/gig work).

There's basically very little chance of being hired in tech if you're let go in your 40s/50s

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wannabepinetree@reddit

if youre in big tech, maybe, but thats just not realistic given the average dev salaries out in say the Midwest.

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Hate to tell you this then, but I'm already in my early 40s. The last time I was stable with any work was at age 33. Then it was followed by a sporadic pattern of freelancing. I have been on the dating scene up until around 35 and I then realized I'm now unemployed two months for every month. I was like no, this is not conducive to settling down and having a family, I have to work on myself first and get a stable normal full time job. But I still haven't yet, so here we are.

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alpacaMyToothbrush@reddit

There's basically very little chance of being hired in tech if you're let go in your 40s/50s

Only if you 'let yourself go'. It's so fucking easy to get complacent in a job. Your company gives you a low impact project that puts you doing glorified configuration and documentation with very little actual coding, for years. Your skills rust. The company decides it wouldn't actually hurt all that much to let you go, so they do. Now you have to go into technical interviews having done nothing but light bug fixes for the last 3 years and it shows.

The people that have longevity in tech switch jobs as much for interesting work as they do for pay

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superide@reddit

You're spitting facts here. And it's so easy to fall behind because the roads are not littered with caution signs when they need to be. But I think if they did, far fewer people would apply to those jobs. I started my career around the same time you did but I also didn't take a traditional STEM path either. No fantasies of working at Big Tech, I just hit up the local classifieds for a honest job here in the Midwest.

Most of these local jobs really ain't that great for building good tech skills. Some of them had red flags flying for multiple reasons, but I'm the kind of person who can't see a career related red flag unless it slaps me hard in the face. As a junior developer I thought I was just supposed to stay in the backseat and let someone else drive for me. And be like a guide that can warn you of long term consequences. IRL there are far fewer people for us out there.

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Teviom@reddit

In 2008 I experienced redundancy, peak of financial crisis and 2 weeks later find out my wife is pregnant. Was great find! Had move eventually to find work. Was touch and go for a minute, living on credit cards etc.

Never again.

Now I’m in my early 40s, well within the top 1% of earners etc…

Our mortgage is £650 a month, hardly anything on it.
We have no personal loans, no credit card debt (except for a few thousand rotating for credit rating.
We have two kids and still only have one car, reduced to 1 during covid and honestly we haven’t really been that bothered. Sure be timed having 2 would be handy but with my WFH… No point, wife mostly drives it with kids.
Car is a company lease (ok a nice one) but if I ever lose my job it just goes back etc.

Either you don't have a fallback plan and you become destitute. Or you have a fallback plan and at some point you switch tracks.

All jobs and careers are siloed now, whether skills or experience on paper. So you start from scratch with a new career. There are some with low barriers to entry.

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superide@reddit

My attempt to switch tracks is to work help desk or retail and that hasn't worked out yet. What is this job market lol

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renoirb@reddit

I’m on a job search myself. Stayed out if employment after the last emolument loss of 2022 before the birth of my son. I stayed stay at home dad until now. Now that my toddler is 2.5y old, and we are happy with daycare, I am on the lookout too.

20y, and full-full-stack developer. I was doing Linux sysadmin, Database, PHP, Frontend from HTTP and kernel tracing to DOM in browser and CSS paint. That’s now explained by my ADHD that wasn’t diagnosed until my 30s to underestimate Web development. But to constantly be working on that, and nothing else.

So. Unemployed. I’m in that boat too.

What I do:

Find a way to stand out, work on it while continuing search.

The only edge we have as experienced developers is the experience. AI is really helping productivity, an experienced developer can do more and they know what they’re “talking about” to the LLM.

But other than that.

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McN697@reddit

You save money when you are working and pivot to real estate when your expertise can’t land you a job.

Very common story after the dot com bubble.

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Dubsteprhino@reddit

Hey OP don't be all doom and gloom. I got laid off in February and had an offer three weeks later. I took a job with a 30k paycut but i had a kid on the way and had to close something quickly. There are jobs out there, try other job boards if the algorithms aren't kind to you.

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notchatgptipromise@reddit (OP)

Thanks, friend. Trying to stay positive but it's tough. I had a couple things fall through that were sure things - but of course, apparently they weren't.

I have ~9yrs dev experience on paper, but as most was working solo in govt jobs honestly it’s more like 3-4 in comparison to private sector expectations. I’m a solid mid-level I think, but my resume/age assumes senior.

I’ve gotten to 2nd round interviews a few times but got rejected (in part due to not living there yet, partly just not great answers by me). Ghosted or rejected w/o interview by the others. I haven’t really applied to a ton of postings - I’m being selective w/companies and roles.

I’ll likely give notice here in a month or 2 with the built-in excuse that we’re moving, need to house hunt, sell out house, etc so it’ll be an easy “gap” to explain.

I’m considering freelancing, consulting, teaching/tutoring, or seeking part-time work at like REI or Home Depot or something that would pay > $0/hr, and aligns w/hobbies or needs that could benefit from an employee discount.

I’m currently cashing out stocks and planning to live off savings/investment income so I really only need to make like $40K for the next year. Planning to do individual study/projects in the meantime and keep interviewing/applying.

We’re lucky to (so far) have a decent savings/investment cushion and we’re in an ok place to do this. I’m looking forward to a “break” for 3-6mo and then we’ll see.

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kchamplin@reddit

Can you work remote after you moved and before your 2-year term is up?

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ShenmeNamaeSollich@reddit

Nope! Not unless I get hired by the company whose contractors we use. Applying to them too since they’re in the region, but nothing yet.

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CandleTiger@reddit

Not software, but I had a relative with a good job in engineering who got laid off (well, pushed into "early retirement") at.. 50? 55? and never found another job.

Depression -> checked out of life and sat around all the time -> bankruptcy, lost house, poor health -> early death

I would say, try to avoid that path if you can. If you have to take a job working fast food that's better than staring at the walls doing nothing.

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steampowrd@reddit

Just sit in the couch yelling at the news all day and wait for the ass cancer in old age.

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SaysWatWhenNeeded@reddit

Did they have any hobbies or personal interests?

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vac2672@reddit

I fear what leet code and insane automated coding tests are doing to the hiring process. Many can’t even get a foot in the door because they were 15 milliseconds too slow in their puzzle solution. It is commoditizing the industry and is the biggest hurdle in most cases to you getting your next offer. It used to be about not

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69Cobalt@reddit

This is a pretty individual question and while natural, I don't think it's conducive to a good job hunting mindset to be fixated on fears or failure.

Instead I think it's helpful to make a plan based on results. You might say ok I'm taking resume #1 and resume #2 and applying to jobs on boards x/y/z for a month and reaching out to x recruiters directly. After a month I will review my results and spend month 2 applying with the resume that gave better results on the job board with better results. On month 3 I will lower my standards and further tweak my resume. If I haven't received an offer by month 6 I will do Uber eats part time. If I haven't received an offer by month 7 I will spend a week and brainstorm alternate income options and rethink my career plan.

Obviously this is all very individual but the idea is that in a plan like this you are alotting yourself time to think about the worst case scenario but only at the appropriate time. Months 1-6 you should be focused only on the job hunt itself and you can tell yourself I have a plan and the time to think about alternatives is month 7 not now. I find being strategic and disciplined with a real plan is the best way to avoid doom spiraling and anxiety.

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notchatgptipromise@reddit (OP)

This is good advice. I'm a bit pessimistic by nature, so your first sentence really resonates.

But even just thinking about this:

by month 6 I will do Uber eats part time.

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37337penguin@reddit

Either they tough it out longer than they hoped, or they take a temporary haircut and keep looking in the side. The smart ones do the latter sooner.

Like, I still know devs that won’t put jQuery down despite the ECMAScript revolution nearly 10 years ago.

And I absolutely would not hire them based on that fact alone. 10 years to learn something new and if you haven’t picked it up by now then you probably aren’t good enough to keep up with the pace and have become stale.

These guys absolutely need to show that they're still relevant.

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abeuscher@reddit

25 YOE. Laid off in April of 2023; just passed my 2 years of unemployment anniversary. I was not able to land an interview either through connections or by blind applying for the first year (sent ~1200 apps or so), and after that I gave up on full time employment. I was forced to cash in my 401k and put a bit of it into a Roth IRA and used a bit to exercise my options from my last job. That company is doing well so if they IPO then my life will be a little better but right now I consult for about 1/2 of my rent monthly, borrow money from family, and am slowly whittling away at that IRA a few grand at a time when I hit bottom.

Here's some advice I can offer: get promoted. Don't assume that being good at your job means anything. If you don't have a substantial pattern of being promoted that ends in managerial positions, you will not beat the hiring algorithm. I was promoted at every job I had for the past 15 years but not into management. So it doesn't matter.

Also, I was more focused on building relationships with people outside of corporate because I don't like shitting where I eat. And I was often the only tech in non technical departments. While these choices afforded me personal happiness and autonomy, they also led to my unemployability at 50 years old. My network is not very strong.

The good news is that my consulting clients love me. I have always been excellent with stakeholders and educating others - I worked as a teacher for a while but couldn't handle parents - and I am very good at figuring out how to fix business problems on the cheap. So if I can get some word of mouth going I will be great. Unfortunately the sectors I am servicing - non-profits and medical stuff - are suffering greatly under the present administration so work is kind of drying up just as I thought I found a niche.

Before anyone starts in on trying to poke holes - I am not trying to play a victim here. I fucked up my career and maybe I should have known better. Also I was the guy everyone came to for resume help, negotiating tips, and institutional knowledge in general. My problem is NOT that I am presenting myself poorly or that I am not good at what I do. And if it is your inclination to look for a problem here, spend time thinking about what that says about you before you hit the old reply button. 2 years is a long time to have to think about what has happened and I have not been statically sitting in a chair applying for one kind of job.

This is not an old man's profession

So true. 51 here, IC, not in management. A new coworker last year commented on how white my beard was and then playfully started calling me Santa. I shaved it that following day. Ageism is real. I am so paranoid right now of being the old expensive employee that I no longer seek raises (not like they're handing any out anyway) or get upset when missing a bonus. I got a 1% raise this year and was happy for it. Hang in there.

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philip_dye@reddit

It seems strange but if you are old enough, some of the older tech you worked with may be running out of maintainers. I recently found work maintaining an old code base of the type I worked on 30 years ago.

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roninBytes@reddit

That’s a new one! Definitely keeping that in mind, thank you for the bit of hope.

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Zaemz@reddit

I am one of those people. I had a string of bad fits, and was fired from 3 jobs in a row. I definitely held the most responsibility each time, but it decimated my self-confidence and sense of worth.

It's been 2.5 years since I've worked. I tried and tried to find something for the first year. I managed to get about a dozen interviews, but either did embarrassingly poorly or was probably passed up for someone else. After a while I started applying to other jobs for something in the mean-time: warehouses, grocery stores, etc., and didn't even hear back from them.

My friends and previous co-workers gave me kind words, but through their conversations I could hear that they didn't want to offer any kind of networking. After a while, I took it as a hint that I had no value. No one wanted me. I can't contribute. Then why am I even here?

I started practicing tying an electrical cord in my garage as a noose. It was the only thing I had on hand that was strong enough and long enough to hold my weight. I wrapped it around my throat a few times to feel what it was like, and decided to find something that would leave less of a mark and hurt less. I didn't have any cables, cords, or rope thick enough to be comfortable. I did this a few times, looking for fabric or some kind of padding to soften it a little bit. Eventually I realized how close I was to dying by suicide, tried to reach out to my friends (poorly...), and told my spouse.

I infinitely gratefully and and am undeservedly fortunate to have a partner who is boundlessly patient and supportive, and has given me something to live for. Conveniently, she works in mental health. I also have an incredible dog, who's very aware of my mental state. She would distract me, demand attention, or just wiggle up and snuggle when things were at their worst.

I'm doing better now. I still haven't found a dev job, but I've kind of started looking again. I absolutely still fear rejection and failure. The individuals that handled my firings used harsh language and even directly insulted me in one case, another coming close but I could tell they bit their tongue. I am pessimistic I'll find anything again because of the gap in my work history. I am a bubbly, somewhat passive person, and I come off as naive and foolish.

To answer your question ultimately: personally, I ended up in limbo. I don't have any other professional interests. I'm sure that, eventually, I'll find a job roofing or shoveling shit somewhere, or something, but I don't know what's next...

Thanks for asking the question, and thank you to anyone who decided to read this. It felt kinda good to write.

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Bigluser@reddit

After reading your text I am quite invested. In some ways you seem lucky with your dog and partner, in others you seem quite unlucky with your employment history and lacking other support structures.

Obviously giving any advice might totally fall flat since I don't know you, but I'll try anyway. During my childhood and adolescents I was always afraid of failure and it was ingrained in me that I'll never do anything exceptional. Luckily no one pushed me to think of myself as a failure, but my mundane outlook of life wasn't happy. I wasn't happy.

I can pretty much trace back my turnaround to a little book called "The four agreements". I can't really say that it changed anything externally. I could easily look at my life now and confirm my mundane outlook of before. I work a job where I am comfortable but am not really happy in. I know that I shouldn't give this up for nothing, still toiling with the idea to go self employed. There are forces pulling me to both sides, the fear of failure and the creeping thought of staying stuck.

But what this book taught me is that I can be free. That if I give my best effort, there is no one who should judge me badly. Even if someone does, I have a defence against them. Because what else could I have done than my best? I am lucky in the way that I never got fired. But one time I had a quite toxic exit interview after I quit within the first few weeks of a job.

The guy basically told me that I let them down and that I will never make it in any job with my attitude, that I need to endure difficulties and not just quit. What once would have destroyed me, just left me politely agreeing with them and internally laugh about the plain parody of the "advice", being told to stay in a toxic environment by a toxic leader. If I had any doubts remaining, after this I knew my decision was totally right.

I am not saying that you need to read this or another book and everything will be okay. There are also a lot of other measures like sports or meditation. However, I think that finding emotional freedom is the key. Because if you are free, which really is not a binary but a float, any decision you make is easier.

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hammertime84@reddit

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zakuropanache@reddit

Though I find actively applying to those type of roles with my experience are just a red flag to companies.

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forbiddenknowledg3@reddit

Why don't you fake the resume?

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Iannelli@reddit

Having two recent jobs with less than 1 year tenure is not a "failure." It is an incredibly and increasingly common thing. If you were capable of achieving a 200k per year job, you were/are capable of figuring out a way to explain/fudge those two work experiences to get yourself some other kind of tech job. Dishonesty is part of this game. You have to engage in it to some degree to play this game, it's not optional.

I would recommend not continuing to say "this is a career ender" as if it's advice - it seems you allowed this to end your career, but it is 100% not a career ender, and in some cases it isn't even remotely a problem. There are a million different ways you could have explained those two job stints to pivot to something else successfully. I cannot stress enough how there are hundreds of thousands of Millennials in the tech industry (or other industries but tech roles) with two recent jobs that were under a year each (myself included) who are completely fine, getting new/better jobs constantly.

It's not a failure, it's how corporatistm and capitalism works in America.

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forbiddenknowledg3@reddit

This is all due to the current economic situation.

3 years is better than 2, but it still depends. 9 years into your career and never worked anywhere more than 3 years - red flag. 6 years in an looking for your 3rd job, well what wasn't working in your first two jobs..

3 years is about the bare minimum tenure where we'll think we broke even on our investment in the person.

Because people don't leave often (and because we're small) we don't hire often. We know we're a good place to work in our level of tech companies. So we can be awfully picky hiring.

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This doesn't make any sense. If that's really the case, just fucking lie.

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KrispyCuckak@reddit

Whenever you were involuntarily terminated for any reason, and someone asks you why you left a job, the answer is always economically-driven layoffs. Nobody will ever doubt you there.

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sudosussudio@reddit

Bartending typically makes more. You have to be personable and reasonably good at it though. Same with waiting tables.

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Ibuprofen-Headgear@reddit

Purely to your question, not accounting for the original comment, yes, there is plenty of stuff in between. I think people are either unwilling to take the pay/role cut to a level or two below, unwilling to work for a “lesser” company, or unwilling to work in a less lucrative industry (ie same seniority, but some pay cut), and have some degree of ability to not work for an extended period. I’m not in anything close to a tech hub and there are plenty of local jobs that are still mostly remote (but are “boring” nothing-special-but-not-poverty paying jobs for java, .net just working on some run-of-the-mill LOB software), and I’ve seen a good number around the country that are full remote (my current situation - full remote in another state).

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Ok_Slide4905@reddit

I quit a FAANG job after a year, found a better job then get laid off a year after that. Resume is radioactive due to gaps and the short stints.

A background check is a public records check, your employment history does not show up in a background check.

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st4reater@reddit

I agree, it is kind of drastic to just leave the entire field. Could the issues be your resume or way you present yourself?

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Ok_Slide4905@reddit

It is but you gotta make difficult decisions sometimes.

With the exception of management, once you take a non-SWE role your career is effectively over. Maybe dev rel or technical writing could be a path forward but that is also a career change.

I mean this in the best way possible: This is not true at all.

I'm not sure who told you this, but I've been doing this for 30 years, I've been involved in hiring dozens, if not hundreds, of software developers and I've never cared if someone wasn't a dev the whole time.

If you're looking to only work at the top companies, perhaps you are setting the bar a bit too high for now?

Remember the saying every company is a software company now.

There is still demand for software developers, it's not just FAANG and startups.. Banks, insurance companies, retailers, agencies, manufacturing, B2B, etc..

So many places need software developers, and many of them don't have the luxury to be super picky about who they hire. If you have the skills, attitude/motivation, and experience they are looking for they won't care where you worked before.

Today? I'm basically working for health insurance, and believe it or not, I stopped hating my job the day I stopped needing it to survive.

So what would I do if I was laid off and couldn't find another job? I'd retire, and spend my days reading, watching sciencey youtube vids, and playing a huge backlog of video games I never got around to playing. I just hope the ACA sticks around another 4 years.

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Holden_Makock@reddit

Because I was laid off and visa issues, I had to take a pay cut. 220k/year lesser but a 1-2 year set back is better than a lost career. I can always get back to similar jobs

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hw999@reddit

The only employer will be ICE, if you want to feed your family, you'll have to work for Emperor Palpatine.

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master_palaemon@reddit

Got laid off last September and have only landed one interview since. \~6 years Software Engineering and another 15+ or so in IT/Ops, and it seems pretty hopeless right now.

I have been gradually working on my own startup idea and some music. I have some film, audio and photography experience so I'm thinking about how to leverage that. As a last resort I thought about law enforcement just because departments everywhere are short on officers, and it's good pay, but it would be a tough place to be these days due to the political situation.

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IronSavior@reddit

20+ yoe. Unemployed since August. I was taking a break at first, but the proverbial phone stopped ringing entirely since January. I'm still looking, but I'm getting about one serious recruiter inquiry per week and I've gotten exactly one interview with an engineer in all that time (genuinely wasn't a good fit for me).

I don't blast out my resume. I'm only applying where I think there is a good match. 100% remote is a hard requirement for me and that means I'm applying to openings where they are drowning in candidates. I don't have a degree either, so you could say I'm facing some not at all insignificant competitive disadvantages.

My wife, who left the workforce when our 6yo twins were born, has an offer on the table contingent on her completing her license renewal requirements. She knocked out 36 CEUs in a week and is studying for the test. She will make a little more than 1/3 of what I used to make, but it's still a substantial income and a whole lot more than what I'm making now (which is nothing). I'm immensely proud of this woman.

I'll be the dedicated stay at home dad until market conditions shift, I guess. That's not so bad. My kids are pretty great. Told my wife I was gonna dunk on her in this capacity--maybe I'll teach the kids to sing a song while cleaning their room or folding their own laundry or some Disney-ass shit like that. More likely I'll just fuck it up for a while until I get it right.

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sudosussudio@reddit

I’m in a similar situation. I’m wondering if I should pretend to have less experience because of ageism.

I’m not looking for remote roles and I’m in a major city so job market just seems like a mess. I had referrals from friends but they either also got laid off or quit.

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IronSavior@reddit

I don't know if trying to feign youth is the right way to go or not. I think the reality of vibe coding is starting to hit, which is that there is still no replacement for real human engineers with experience. AI tooling will make good engineers better and you can get by with fewer, but we will be needed. I worry that the value proposition for junior engineers is likely to be more threatened by this new tech than seniors.

The scary question is whether I can continue to pay my mortgage while the market sorts itself out. When I talk to recruiters and they ask about salary expectations, I say that I have an idea what I think I'm worth, but I also acknowledge that the market is in a weird place and that I'm at a competitive disadvantage. This signals that I'm willing to work for cheap, which is absolutely true at this point.

I had a manager I used to work for reach out to me about a place on his team and he was laid off before we could even meet. That was like a punch in the gut. I really did work well with him and now he's in the same boat with us. It's wild out there right now.

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ElliotAlderson2024@reddit

We get sent to the glue factory.

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superide@reddit

6 YoE, laid off late 2019. You read that right. I had no problem getting interviews with a variety of companies during the Covid hiring boom, but that was it, only interviews. Made third round with a few but no offers. I burned out from the job hunt in mid 2022 and doubled down on making side projects because I was not in the mood to talk to almost anyone.

I plan to apply to work again soon, I'm sure it will be interesting to say the least. Will hit up all five WITCH firms as well since they are generally reputed as last ditch effort companies. I'll let you know if I ever find anything again

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stagnified@reddit

It's been 2.5 years since my last steady paycheck as a senior data scientist and machine learning engineer. Mostly it's on me though. I have not done a good job of building/maintaining a professional network, and I'm unwilling to relocate to a major (Canadian) city.

So "what happened" to me? Income went down and life got much more enjoyable. I make a bit of money from occasional short-term project contracts that come through what network I do have, I apply to hybrid jobs in Vancouver as a hobby and exercise in self-reflection, and spend a lot of time on hobbies and parenting.

jedberg@reddit

One friend moved to Idaho and started writing YA fiction.

One friend with 20 YOE works at Costco now.

A lot of my friends have had 1 year gaps looking for work.

It's tough out there right now. Not getting work isn't necessarily a reflection on you. There are just more people than jobs.

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Fluid_Gate1367@reddit

We burnout and fade away into nihilism.

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abeuscher@reddit

Don't forget getting radicalized and becoming disaffected. What could go wrong?

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Foreseerx@reddit

They got progressively less picky with the jobs they're applying to/offers they're taking, starting with simple pay cuts/more in-office days and finishing with rotation to positions like testing, IT, sysadmin stuff and potentially rotating to a non-IT job if needed.

Though I have to say, for experienced devs it's not very common you can't find ANYTHING after a very long period of time -- if that's the case then I'd be taking a look at the resume, how prepared you are for tech interviews/leetcode and how well you do otherwise (soft skills) in your interviews, in that order.

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Shot_Instruction_433@reddit

I was without a job for 6 months around 2018. Then I joined as an automation tester for a consultancy. After 8 months moved to another consultancy as a developer. Again after 8 months I joined my current job. I reached my 2017's salary level around 2022. Until that time I had around $60k paycut.

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jb3689@reddit

It's tough out there. I've been interviewing here and there and companies seem really, really picky. I have a cushy job that bores me to tears, but if I were stuck without employment, I'd just do my own thing. Either focus on automating short-term investing or start a small side hustle with some consulting thrown in while I interview (or give up on that... or become a baker or something, life is short).

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fartmcmasterson@reddit

Got laid off in Dec 2023, took about a 1 1/4 years to care for sick family member, now I'm prepping for the search. I'm a little nervous due to not interviewing in over a decade, the current economic climate, and ageism.

That said, I did have an old boss reach out about a month and a half ago and offer me a role he was opening. I told him I'd absolutely take it, but about a week later he mentioned an org policy change to consider internal resources and external hires need approval. It was right around the time the sweeping tariffs were announced.

Bummed out, but I'll carry on.

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It's a feast or famine life in this country. Spend money at your own future risk

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MoneyGr1nder@reddit

It's really tough but you have to keep pushing. At a certain point, some people do something on the side like uber or whatnot, but if you stay consistent, you should see results.

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_5er_@reddit

They become Linux maintainers? 😁

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putocrata@reddit

Aren't most paid and put there by companies like Google?

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HoratioWobble@reddit

I'm currently in the same boat.

The recruitment processes just seem insane, you rarely get a response, when you do it's a rejection for a ridiculous reason or you interview and get rejected for a ridiculous reason.

So far i've been rejected because

I wasn't within 50 miles of a specific city for a fully remote role that would require travel to the office once a month
Because I was previously a contract engineer
Because I don't use 100% AI in my workflow

I've seen a few people quit and do other jobs, whatever they can find. I don't know what's going to happen.

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Radinax@reddit

Living on my savings until I can get another one, what else can I do lol

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Critical-Coconut6916@reddit

7 yrs exp. Can’t find anything after layoff from 6 months ago. :( Unemployment ran out too so now just burning through savings unfortunately.

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WarAmongTheStars@reddit

We've all heard the horror stories of folks applying to hundreds of jobs and getting nothing. But concretely, what happens to these people if they don't find anything? Do you know people who have given up, and if so, what did they do? Surely there is something we are qualified to do between this and pushing carts somewhere, no? Teacher? Recruiter? I really don't know.

I've known people (not specifically devs but its equally relevant in terms of STEM) that just take regular analyst office jobs pushing numbers in spreadsheets and making calls with suppliers or vendors or whatever.

It doesn't pay anywhere near as well but like you can make $60k a year doing that in many places if you don't mind dealing with the fact its more people oriented.

Data driven Marketing and a bunch of other tech-y adjacent things like this exist and if you have a degree and IT experience plenty of places will consider your application in normal times. It isn't normal times and I haven't had enough anecdotal data in the past year to say how viable the route is.

But two years ago I know multiple people who switched to boring analyst or supply chain or whatever type roles that are more on memorizing internal culture with basic math skills, basic spreadsheet skills, and basic SQL/Tableau/etc skills.

I saw the writings on the wall at that company that had some serious growing pains in particular leadership and started shopping my bag, but couldn’t find anything… during that time I created as I always have other customers some that were across my state that I paid out of pocket and at a loss to maintain for over a year.

I finally found a customer as I knew I would that finally worked out for the costumers who was paying 5 times as much as the costumers that I held on to for over a year.

I approach my industry with the thought of financial stability first meaning billable work and don’t wait for anyone to identify what I know is the bottom line.

I simply find a customer who agrees with me and march to that hunt