Time tracking
Posted by Morel_@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 46 comments
Hey folks.
I've just backed out of a contract because while I was interviewing, no one mentioned that I have to log every minute of my working session. For example, if I'm going for lunch, I'd have to use the time tracking software to indicate that I'm not working.
I've worked like this for contract work where I was being paid per hours worked. Furthermore, I asked how the hours impact performance reviews and the manager could not let me know how. More so, I'd have to also track the time taken/estimated for every ticket I'm working on.
It'd be less friction if it was all automated and I did not have to manually handle all this. But they use WhatsApp internally and instead of project management tools like Jira, you have to send updates to a WhatsApp group every morning. I made it clear that I have never used WhatsApp for management of a development workflow with the current sea of tools available.
This does not mean I'm a sloppy and lazy engineer. I get things done but this is not the way I want to work everyday.
Am I acting like a little brat or this is justifiable?
Rare_Ordinary7851@reddit
In my HR role, I’ve found that a lot of the stress around schedules and timesheets disappeared once we started using Connecteam. It’s not fancy, but it keeps things simple and reliable.
Jealous-Rhubarb-2722@reddit
You’re not a brat. It’s fair to want a workflow that isn’t micromanaging every minute. Tools like Teamcamp exist so you can track work without chaos and actually focus on getting things done, not logging every sip of coffee.
clarafiedthoughts@reddit
Not bratty at all. Just sounds like a mismatch in expectations and workflows.
Some teams are structured and rely on manual check-ins, but WhatsApp? That’s a no from me. We use Jibble > Jira > Slack. Just type a code in Slack, and the timer starts or stops. Simple.
Also, I don’t support tracking every single minute, especially not lunch. Honestly, backing out probably saved you (and them) a lot of future headaches.
arina_katz@reddit
WhatsApp just feels weird for work, things get messy fast and it’s not great for keeping track of anything important. Time tracking is fine though, as long as it’s used right. It’s not always about monitoring people - in many cases, it’s just a tool for better project planning and making sure workloads are manageable.
0Iceman228@reddit
When it comes to time tracking, it can simply be mandatory by law that employers track it for tax or other reasons, as is the case in Germany for example. I had to log working time and lunch time because it's mandatory to take a lunch break, etc. With allocated time on tickets it's a different thing but I had jobs where I had to book literally every minute properly to kinda loose, but always tracked. It's simply to have an overview how long stuff takes, which I find very reasonable. Now convenience is a big factor of course to get employees to actually do it, so that part of frustration I get.
Xsiah@reddit
No, that's psycho shit. I'd leave too.
ttkciar@reddit
I don't blame you. That is a really crappy system, and I wouldn't tolerate it either.
Ticket-based time tracking (JIRA, etc) is fine, and more companies should be doing that.
valence_engineer@reddit
I was browsing slack channels last week to catch up (not ticketed). I found an odd bug flagged by another team and looked into it a bit (not ticketed). Told my managed I'll look into it since it seemed related to work I did a few weeks ago (not ticketed). Spent the day pairing with the other team on it and we solved it (not ticketed for this week). Had they just patched it over like they aimed to it'd have cost the company millions.
If I had to track every hour to a ticket I wouldn't have bothered and the company would be out a few million.
Difficult-Vacation-5@reddit
At the end of this ticketless work I would just put in a ticket to account for the work, but wont log the time.
IAmADev_NoReallyIAm@reddit
You know what's even better? A non-ticket based tracking system. I put in my time. At the end of the day, I open my time card, I find my line item for the project I'm working on and I enter "8" ... I hit the save button and I go home... that's it. That's the extent of my tracking. Unless I take PTO. Then I find the PTO line itme, enter hours there, or I do company basedf training, there's a line item for that too... But ticket-based tracking? pffft! Been there, won't do that again if I can help it.
ttkciar@reddit
That sounds exactly like ticket-based time tracking, except instead of entering "8" on your project's ticket you're entering "8" on your project's row in your time card.
IAmADev_NoReallyIAm@reddit
We're a contractor, we have to get paid somehow.
Way better than entering 45 min here, 10 min there, 5 min etc. on 12 different tickets....
At least I don't have to track what time is spent on what individual tickets or what time in what meetings...
Kaimito1@reddit
Had that in a previous job.
Tracked with the smallest time being 15 mins on a task.
If you dot hit 39 hours BILLABLE then it sends you an automated email that said "warning your billable hours have not hit target. Your manager will be alerted if this continues".
It was a junior position at the time (downgraded due to big language shift) so there were long stretches of me keeping busy learning.
Found a new job by the time probation ended. (It also gave me a profound hate of Joomla)
Technical_Gap7316@reddit
No, time tracking is not fine.
ParkingOven007@reddit
If it’s an agency, proserv, consulting, or other client facing dev where they bill for T&M, it may be necessary for their knowing utilization.
Difficult-Vacation-5@reddit
WhatsApp surely not? Well logging time on the task yes. Sure
CuriousSpell5223@reddit
How does that even work. Do you post in a group chat: “Taking a dump right now 15min”
liquidpele@reddit
I read that to mean they want them available on chat at any second.
Morel_@reddit (OP)
Literally everything is via WhatsApp. Talking to team mates, updates, task allocation.
I've never used WhatsApp for team collaboration handling all that workflow manually via a chat app. The breaking point was time tracking every minute and screen recording for every work session.
I voiced my concerns, for example, I leave my phone in the bedroom while I work. I rarely have it on my work desk. Everything else gets handled via Slack and mail. Ultimately, I had to make it known that that's not how I want to work (after they went above the tolerable threshold).
Difficult-Vacation-5@reddit
Honestly sounds like a nightmare.
LiberContrarion@reddit
47 minutes later: "Just got back, guys. It was a damned rodeo. 8", approx 1.7" diameter. Surprisingly mooshy. 7 minutes later, 5", approx 1.5" diameter.
"Smell wasn't unpleasant."
Bogus_dogus@reddit
Not petty or a brat at all. I don't prefer working that way. Just gonna throw a thought in the ring though, our jobs are about expectation management regardless of what we write on a ticket or a WhatsApp thing, and I've learned that there is a lot of leeway on timelines so long as they somewhat match what is initially communicated. This means you can be quite generous to yourself and it's not every day that someone will call you out on that self generosity.
Nofanta@reddit
I would pass unless I had no other options.
Morel_@reddit (OP)
I did as well. This was actually during the on boarding call - what was supposed to be my first day at work. These details were skipped during the interview calls. They were just dropped today with the usual "we're always improving and this is how we do things".
I made it know that that's not how I work, and that wasn't how I want to work in the future.
mattbillenstein@reddit
Yeah man, fuck that - they'll be passed over by talented people over and over and only the really desperate people who can get no other job will be there.
nooneinparticular246@reddit
Sounds like a very old-school and toxic / micro-management heavy workplace. WhatsApp… so Asia-based as well?
What metrics a company cares about tells you a lot about their culture and what you’ll be needing to navigate / put up with.
Morel_@reddit (OP)
LMFAO, I didn't want to mention Asia-based (to avoid bias). But you're spot on.
fschwiet@reddit
WhatsApp seems pretty common about everywhere south of the USA in the Americas, for what its worth.
Morel_@reddit (OP)
Undeniably, I agree. In my country, you can even serve court documents via WhatsApp.
ClayDenton@reddit
I have to track by the hour against timecodes in an Oracle timecard....that seems fair. By the minute is... Mad. Run don't walk!
JaneGoodallVS@reddit
If it's self reporting, why not just lie? Do they install spyware on your computer too?
Morel_@reddit (OP)
Yes.
JaneGoodallVS@reddit
I wouldn't wanna work somewhere that installs spyware. It'd make my day too unenjoyable. I have high velocity so who cares if I go for a 20 minute walk.
Manually inputting time is no big deal though. Just 8-8-8-8-8 Monday through Friday. Or leave your timer running if you're taking a long break.
Poat540@reddit
I track my hours just in case in Monday. And then at the end of contracts I feed that and my notes into some AI and have it create a project summary as a deliverable
steveoc64@reddit
How TF did they build the pyramids back in the day, or more recently put a rocket ship on the moon … without time tracking software, Jira boards, WhatsApp groups, and 1 hour daily standups ?
GrizzRich@reddit
It’s completely justifiable. Time tracking is part of your working conditions and it’s entirely appropriate to terminate the contract if they won’t budge on the topic.
Though next time I’d suggest discussing that up front. Life is too short for anything more granular than half day tracking.
false79@reddit
I absolutely love time tracking!
Adding +25% to my rate if this is a requirement. Everyone is happy.
Morel_@reddit (OP)
Except in this case, you're paid a salary at the end of the month.I've done it before for freelance contract. Not willing to do it for full time work.
No-Economics-8239@reddit
You're not being petty. I consider that nonsense to be among the worst sort of micromanagement and a sign that the people leaders don't actually know or care about leading. I think there are much better ways for management to track what their direct reports are doing, but it actually requires them to manage.
I briefly worked at a place that implemented a time tracking application. We needed to accout for our entire 8 hour shift, down to 15 minute intervals. We needed to select a tracking code for each activity from a list of around 200 codes.
I had enough experience to loudly complain that this was a ridiculous way to track what we're working on, and that a kanban/story application would work much better to provide visibility and data. The pencil pusher who launched the initiative didn't have the political capital to quash the fomented discord, and the time tracking initiative was ended after about 6 weeks of unrest and protest data being packed into the system.
I didn't have the savvy or experience to first check who in the C-suite actually wanted it and what they wanted to accomplish. I would likely employ a much more diplomatic solution if it happened to me now.
jcradio@reddit
This is a common mentality for most companies that think they can split a person across projects or max utilization. The reality is if we tracked every minute we "work" we would need to account for the moments of the evening we drift in conversations with our children or spouse because we are working the problem, or the times we wake up in the middle of the night with the "aha moment".
Having people in "charge" who lack the ability to do our understand what we do is a very frustrating reality.
I prefer to align by goals and deliveries.
Morel_@reddit (OP)
Me too. I prefer set goals and deliverables.
"We need xyz, this is how much time we've got"
wretcheddawn@reddit
I had to do that for 5 years at my last job. The owner saw it as a competitive to itemize our billing to the minute. IMO, it just gave clients an easy way to pick apart and dispute thier bills.
We had a timer to start and stop whenever actively working on a task. It was mildly irritating but meh.
Comprehensive-Pin667@reddit
How does one even use whatsapp for that? That sounds like an incredibly stupid setup.
gdinProgramator@reddit
You do not need to justify something you are uncomfortable with.
Honestly, having a whatsapp for time tracking means there is at least one manager employed full time for that.
I do not believe that a company that fails to understand basic tools like JIRA is a good place to work at.
birdparty44@reddit
Nah, not a brat. People who try to save on their bottom line like this are idiots.
“Came up with the solution that will save us literally weeks while taking a shit; 10 mins, or 3 weeks? Would you like to see the turd to verify?”
86448855@reddit
My manager told me off for tracking every minutes lol