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LilBigTits@reddit

Does anyone know if you said you were told you had depression but it was never properly diagnosed but you said it on your medexpress?

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

I put down depression on medxpress and my AME asked me about it. After telling him I was off meds and I’m good to go, he issued me my 1st class

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Jwylde2@reddit

Yeah that AME can get in huge trouble for that. Any mental health cases (even those misdiagnosed) are supposed to get deferred. There’s a whole process.

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LilBigTits@reddit

Okay thank you so much!! I was worried about it

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ConfidenceSweaty9121@reddit

Contact Pilot Medical Solutions.. they can help speed things up. I lost mine due to a PTSD diagnosis from Afghanistan..

Do you fly for a living?

This only helps if you fly recreationally, but since you have had a Medical before, you are still eligible for basic med. I had a student with depression who reverted to basic med successfully

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Hi I’m still a student pilot without any ratings. How did your student revert to basicmed? Did they surrender their medical first or they kept it anyway?

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ChubbyPandaBelly@reddit

As long as you have had a 3rd class medical, you can swap over to basic med. You can’t have both.

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Fit_Sherbet3137@reddit

That’s the rules . You can’t fly or be an air traffic controller. Been that way forever

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Sensitive-Tone5279@reddit

At this point, just listen to your attorney.

Take it from someone who got his medical revoked 9 months ago and is *close* to getting it reinstanted.

StefanAdams@reddit

All visits to a medical professional are required to be disclosed. Anyone who isn't a medical professional isn't qualified to screen for ADHD. You can theoretically put down a vague description of the visit without lying, in my experience AMEs don't ask too many questions about doctor visits as long as it sounds plausible.

But the real issue is that once you become diagnosed with a "mental disorder of any sort" (paraphrasing) you are supposed to disclose it. ADHD arguably falls into that.

Even if you disagree with the diagnosis, believe it was in error, etc. it doesn't matter and has to be disclosed for the rest of your life.

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Druxurbist@reddit

How can you do it without FAA knowing since the MedXpress asks for ALL visits with a medical professional in the last 3 years?

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Sensitive-Tone5279@reddit

I don't know 1000% how this works which is why I told OP they need to consult a professional agency who deals with the FAA.

The FAA is out to get you. dont tell them anything talk with your attorney and stay with your attorney.

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_toodamnparanoid_@reddit

The FAA is out to get you.

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wisertime07@reddit

Exactly. Years ago, I was at a routine physical (not FAA related) and my doctor was looking at a computer monitor while speaking with me. He told me it looked like I was due for a tetanus shot. Me, a wuss when it comes to needles, told him I'd had one a couple years ago and should be good. He proceeded to read off every tetanus shot I'd had, going back to the 80's (my first), as well as the location of each - then asked if he'd missed one. I shrugged and said no.

They have ALL of your recorded medical history at their fingertips now.

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4rch@reddit

It's called a health information exchange and is as insidious as you make it out to be. It's why the military has kids taking almost a year to join because every kid had an overbearing parent take their kid to the doctor for something at least once 10 years before they decided to enlist.

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StefanAdams@reddit

I can't speak for HIEs in general but my doctor's practice gives opt-in / opt-out forms every year. They participate but you have declare if you want to participate or not.

I always say no, not because of the FAA, but because the more places your private information is stored, the more likely it will get into the hands of someone it doesn't belong (hackers, rouge employees, etc.).

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LegitimateElephant75@reddit

Are rouge employees the girls who work at makeup counters?

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ThorCoolguy@reddit

Is there any way for us as private citizens to access our own information? That seems like it should be a cornerstone feature of any such database.

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StefanAdams@reddit

You can ask for your medical records at any time. It's your right to see them and ask for corrections where needed. You might be charged fees for paper copies.

You-get-the-ankles@reddit

I flew with a guy that accompanied his wife to a sleep apnea appointment for an initial testing. He spoke up at the meeting and asked if he could do it also. He did and had sleep apnea and didn't think or do anything about it. The FAA reached out to him and he had to use a cpap machine every night, plugged in to keep his medical. Don't ask how the feds found out but they did.

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StefanAdams@reddit

There have been multiple cases in the news of staff at sleep study places reporting people who test positive for SA to the DMV, causing driver's licenses to become revoked.

If anywhere in the medical file you've told your doc that you fly airplanes, they may have also informed the FAA.

The only way I'd get tested for SA is if I paid cash and tested under an alias. Go ahead and report "Ben Dover" to the DMV and FAA...

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PleasantRabbit1511@reddit

Just went through this with my kid. I took him for help during the pandemic and it cost us seven months of extra evaluation, but it worked out in the end because several years had passed since treatment or any medication.

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Dave_A480@reddit

There is if you were military.

When you join these days they collect every record from every health insurance claim into a system called 'Genesis'.

That information, plus your health records while in, plus anything you file with the VA remains with the government forever.

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Sensitive-Tone5279@reddit

I have no idea how deeply they did but I want to say that there's major legalese about lying on documents you submit to the FAA and how you can get sent to a pound-me-in-the-ass prison if they find out.

Xyla Foxlin did a great video about this too.

https://youtu.be/aj0H8oVS7qg?si=ftPtle8MzrNQ3z1O

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infinitemirrorss@reddit

Cheese pilot is the man

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Direct_Cabinet_4564@reddit

I’ll stick to snorting coke off strippers and the occasional flight attendant

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Sensitive-Tone5279@reddit

Go join AOPA and talk to them about how to handle it.

DO NOT tell the FAA you "Just smoke a little weed here and there"

Just Don't.

NO

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OrangeVapor@reddit

I can't tell the FAA I just do a little coke off of strippers?

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Sensitive-Tone5279@reddit

I'm just gonna create a flowchart that asks "Should I tell the FAA/AME?" and it just goes to "NO"

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onetwentyeight@reddit

What if I'm going to tell them "NO", should I tell them?

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HardCorePawn@reddit

Definitely Not.

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flannelWX@reddit

I knew someone who told their AME something quite similar to that, though I think it was past use, not current. Poor kid was denied before he even got his first medical.

He thought he was doing the right thing by being honest.

[-]

Your situation is so much the wrong way to handle that that I really had to think if this was a shit post or not.

I had a situation with incorrect notes with my doctor that essentially my lawyer told me there was no obligation to share...I share what I believe under oath is the truth and I believe my notes are incorrect so there is no medical history to share. My lawyer subsequently sent a letter for them to remove and replace the note with the correct note...first they just edited the note saying "patient called back and said this isn't correct" but the note was still there.

Really cant help you on this one but there are cases where a person shouldnt be flying.

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Heavy_Notice3544@reddit

Exactly. “Depression? You mean like a divot in the ground?” Honestly for a PPL with no passengers I see no issue. Carrying passengers though I feel like they should be informed and make the decision to ride with you or not. Obviously no flying on the suck days, but if you are the only one at risk then I feel the FAA needs to butt out.

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roguemenace@reddit

like a divot in the ground

Being a GA private pilot still allows you to fly a 12,000 pound jet into a building (intentionally or accidentally) at 300kts. Don't even need passengers in that picture.

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Heavy_Notice3544@reddit

That’s true. They could. However, there aren’t measures in the current written law I’m aware of to prevent that for driving cars. FAA medical do (obviously or the original post wouldn’t exist). I’d addition…if a car driver does that then nobody blames cars or the DMV, but if that happened in aviation then the entire community would likely be scrutinized unjustly.

I do appreciate the conversation though and not just a “you’re an idiot” shout down. Always fun to hear other people’s thoughts and ways of thinking. That’s the only we people come to understanding. So thank you for being awesome in that way. :)

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jaylw314@reddit

I'm not aware of any "no passengers" limitation on a medical

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You're forgetting about the people on the ground.

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mkosmo@reddit

When mine said "AND STUDENT PILOT CERTIFICATE" there kinda sorta was lol

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capsug@reddit

It’s a first class medical. There’s an implication there that this isn’t just for personal use.

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Heavy_Notice3544@reddit

You’re not wrong, but they also never specified what ratings they have. Simply that they got their medical while still in the military. I instructed a few guys that did that and used their VA benefits to fund training for a civilian career, and had their medical prior to training to ensure they cleared the biggest hurdle before they found out $70k later that they’ll never fly airliners.

Unfortunately, in this case, the FAA is another fickle government entity that changes their mind with the seasons. They 100% need better processes for these situations because I also agree there is no reason they shouldn’t fly. However, listed severe recurrent depression will 100% flag the system no matter the improvement of the condition.

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capsug@reddit

It doesn’t matter what ratings you have. Every pilot who didn’t come up through the military was at one point just a private pilot. The first class medical represents 100% absolute permission MEDICALLY to fly the biggest iron there is.

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Heavy_Notice3544@reddit

I’m confused as to your point then. I agree about what the medical allows.I have all but my ATP-CTP, but I had my medical before I even started training. Just saying this could be a similar instance where he has the medical, but not does not yet have ratings. If this is the case, then I was just saying he should still be able to fly private, but as a passenger on his aircraft I would still like to know if the person I’m entrusting my life to has a potential for severe depression. Even just for a sight seeing flight with friends. If the passenger has no training themselves then they are completely powerless in the plane. If I know about the depression but the dude explains and seems in a good place then I’d have no issue flying with them.

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bonelesspotato17@reddit

It’s truly tragic that pilots STILL have to fear losing their medical if they admit to having emotions. 15+ years in this industry, I remember hoping for better mental health care policies at the start of my career when someone at my flight school unalived themselves in a school airplane, and here we still are. So many pilots/crew turn to unhealthy coping mechanisms when some damn lexapro would really change things in a healthy way instead.

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Boulavogue@reddit

A few mates get their certs through an old school doctor, who still uses analogue pressure cuff gauges and mercury instruments.

A mate was in for a cat 2 exam, he was worried as his usual doctor was putting him on blood pressure meds and said as much. The old school doctor replies, "I don't know about your guys instruments, but these say your you're fit as a fiddle"

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mrsix4@reddit

This is the way. I made the mistake of being honest too and regret it every day. It’s been a fight for 3 years now trying to get back.

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astas_demon@reddit

couldnt they just pull your medical records and see it themselves if they wanted to?

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mrsix4@reddit

I honestly don’t think so. My understanding is that HIPPA prevents that which is why you have to pull your own records and then submit them.

However, there was that time that the Department of Veterans Affairs provided a list of veterans who were receiving disability to the FAA. That led to 60 licenses being revoked.

Just had a meeting with a psychiatrist today.

Again.

It’s been at least two years and five grand.

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smax70@reddit

I have zero experience with FAA medical exams etc., but my impression is that if you just give it up they will use that against you when you try to get it reinstated. It's not the government's SOP to give you credit for compliance. If you comply, they usually take that as tacit admission of guilt or that they were 'right all along.'

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throwaway_time_boyos@reddit

I FEEL GREAT!

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cazzipropri@reddit

I have never felt anything else than that, ever.

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shadeland@reddit

Aggravating-Fix-1717@reddit

NEVER VOLUNTEER INFORMATION TO THE FEDS WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY. ALWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR ATTORNEY

that aside

krom0025@reddit

What a shit system we have. All it does is encourage pilots to avoid getting health care and lie to their doctors. This just makes the whole system less safe. Time for a huge reworking of how medical certificates are handled.

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rwblue4u@reddit

A youtuber I follow, Xyla Foxlin, is dealing with similar FAA bullsh*t. She went through an order with temporary birth control hormone related issues and it was reported to the FAA which ended up grounding her. Sounds like sketchy rationale to me. I can understand them not wanting Jeffrey Dahmer up in the sky but this seems to be a bit of over reach.

Here's her YT vid on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj0H8oVS7qg

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Thank you and I watched her video earlier today and yes we have the same condition. I’m not sure if she received a letter of surrender too?

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rwblue4u@reddit

I'm not aware of those details. I'm thinking you might reach out to her to compare notes ? I did locate a Contacts page for her, below. There has to be a Female Flyers Support Group around this exact thing - it seems like it might happen regularly to normal everyday people and there's nothing to reign the FAA in.

Good luck with your FAA ordeal.

yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Thank you!

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Ambitious-Mine-8670@reddit

Tell them, Molon Labe!!!!!

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Hell yea brother! They could add our medical to the 2nd amendment too

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I was thrown in not-jail jail (mental institution) in liberal Los Angeles in liberal California because I admitted I had been passively suicidally ideating since I was 10 but here I am at 30.

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MrAflac9916@reddit

Because it’s the United States and we are a socially conservative country. Destructive.

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Kjartanski@reddit

My AME thinks i do drink in moderation, i dont have mental issues and certainly have never taken SSRI’s or adhd meds

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Busy-Seaworthiness62@reddit

I had a doc order a sleep study for me, but she indicated it was up to me whether I wanted to do it. I did not do it, so it does not exist.

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ILS_Pilot@reddit

Yes, I'm guessing in your case because you explicitly said 'no', she did not have a reason to put anything on your medical history. Had I known that this would cause issues down the line, I would have denied his theory right there and that would've been the end of it.

I posted this on APC form as well a while ago, and someone mentioned my doctor probably only put that on my history to enable using insurance to pay for the sleep study. It a bit messed up if that is the case, but that's our medical system.

Stay healthy and keep your mouth shut is what I got out of this ordeal.

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snappy033@reddit

The good AMEs will say “I’m a doctor but I am not your doctor”

Major depressive disorder is the medical term for depression.

You're confusing the colloquial/sland term for the illness "depression", with the clinical term "major depressive disorder".

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Thank you and that’s exactly what my psychiatrist told me when I questioned why she diagnosed me with MDD

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AmbitionEducational3@reddit

Lie to fly.

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Yea but can also get you in trouble too

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twistenstein@reddit

Did your recruiter not cover this before you shipped out?

YES = Your enlistment stops

NO = New opportunities

Play the game.

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Bro were you a Marine recruiter? I remember these words but too late!

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twistenstein@reddit

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SunnyPlays02@reddit

“I told my AME I had depression”

Lie? No. Are you sure you had/have depression? It sounds to me that you were feeling sad and you had an overzealous doctor ready to write a prescription. If it ever comes up in the future, you made a lapse in judgment not reporting it because you didn't agree with the doctor and the medication didn't do anything for you, you didn't think to mention it.

The problem is you're now pretty fucked. It was good to get the lawyer, but this isn't going away now and you will need to essentially prove that the doctor made an error diagnosing you with depression which is a lot harder.

You probably want Dr Bob, I know know his name from his posts on the Pilots of America forum. It might be this guy: https://drroberthoughton.com/ he has a similar resume to the doctor Bob I know. He's a (former?) AME so his opinion carries a lot of weight with the FAA and he knows all the right words and forms to use to help you out. Ask your lawyer if he knows Doctor Bob and if you should be using him now or later.

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Earl_x_Grey@reddit

Part of the problem as I understand it is that even seeing a talk therapist (which I've done and fully disclosed to the FAA) _when it's in the US and on insurance_ effectively requires the therapist to provide a diagnosis to get paid by insurance. So you end up with a documented diagnosis even if you never sought or received a prescription.

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Tango_Whiskey16@reddit

In 2023 the FAA cross referenced current/valid PPLs & medicals to the VAs records of veterans receiving disability benefits. They then disqualified and revoked medicals of veterans.

This was also done in 2002 Operation Safe Pilot but that time the FAA cross referenced the Social Security records of those receiving disability benefits.

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FlamingoCalves@reddit

Well that’s what you got for trying to say you’re disabled, but perfectly able to fly. Pick one. Cant double dip.

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SunnyPlays02@reddit

Dude. Everyone knows how strict the FAA is. People even joke about how “Oh I’ve literally never even felt sadness in my life, I don’t even know what that word means”, yea those aren’t jokes LOL. I’m not sitting here telling you to lie to them, I’m saying the FAA is extremely strict and the moment you tell your doctor something along the lines of what you said, it’s done.

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JCcolt@reddit

I’m not sitting here telling you to lie to them

Personally, I have color-impaired vision. I could probably get a first class medical with some sort of a restriction, but I am unemployable as an air transport pilot because the risk to passengers is too high. Accidents in the past have been linked to improper perception of colors.

Would I conceal information from the FAA? No. They try to be as fair as they can, and they are acting in the public interest.

Fully disclose everything, cooperate, and if you don't meet the guidelines for a first class medical, accept it and move on.

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

I agree with you and that Germanwings pilot is a rare case. Personally for me, I have a young son who I wish would wanna become a pilot too. He carries my last name. If I do anything stupid like that, I will tarnish my legacy and my family name. I don’t do things in this life for me, but for my family and the legacy I will be leaving behind.

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heyflyguy@reddit

These people suck.

Suspect you have a medical issue? hell no to seeing a doctor. You might lose your medical!

Stick with the attorney route. Never disclose anything to the FAA, depression medication will never show up on a drug screen. Tell them you’ve been off of it for a certain amount of time, and get your medical reinstated.

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Firsttimehomebuyerr@reddit

I told my AME I had depression

ICD10 codes are assigned nilly-willy by certain medical providers if you want to get paid or if youre trying to prescibe something specific (for insurance to cover it)

(Classic example is a1c needing to be "uncontrolled" while "taking" max dose metformin/SGLT2 (for T2DM) to be Rx'd ozempic and have it covered by insurance)

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capsug@reddit

It’s your health, it’s your career. If you’re just standing by watching yourself get diagnosed with “severe, recurrent major depressive disorder” when you’re just sad because your dog died…man you’ve basically self selected yourself from this career anyways.

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AdroitKitten@reddit

You dont get to pick bro. Provider picks the ICD10

The stigma needs to end. Even the NTSB Chair stated this in their Safety Panel they did after the Alaska Airlines incident.

Go on Hulu, search for, and watch Lie To Fly.

You may also want to look into how the mental health system has been weaponized against pilots to force blind compliance. This whole system is far more corrupt than you realize. Google search Karlene Petitt.

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rckid13@reddit

Billions of people have been depressed at some point in their lives. Yes I said billions. A single digit number of those people have ever in history killed 100 people. That guy's issue wasn't depression. It was something much bigger.

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capsug@reddit

you know anyone can just pull a bunch of totally unverifiable numbers of straight out of their ass to reinforce any stupidity and/or misguided belief/point.

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rckid13@reddit

So you're going to argue that every person who has suffered depression is at risk of killing everyone they work with? You do know that depression is very common in military service members and they have big guns and vehicles right? Germanwings isn't a reason to villify every pilot who admits to depression. If you want to use it as an excuse to villify every pilot who has had depression then people will continue to hide it rather than seek treatment and you still don't solve the problem you aim to solve.

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capsug@reddit

I’m not villifying I’m just saying you can’t do the job. The same way a blind person or somebody with any number of other conditions can’t do the job.

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capsug@reddit

OK then what’s the clinical mechanism and standard that is actually broadly applicable enough to enable this fantasy? I actually hesitate to ask, it would not surprise me if Reddit was fine with pilots on SSRI’s in the cockpit.

But that brings us to the fundamental reason this cannot (and I argue should not) ever change. The FAA is accountable to the American public, and for 999/1000 members of the American public their interaction with aviation is as a passenger. The administrator’s job is not to make life easier for pilots with severe, recurrent, depression. Find a different job.

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thekid_02@reddit

I'm not a medical professional with the qualifications to dictate what the line for acceptable care for flying is, whether or not that includes being on meds, and unlike you I don't intend to pretend like I am. I am however comfortable saying a zero tolerance approach by bureaucrats hurts everyone. I do know that there have been proposals backed by pilots and the mental health community that provides a more sensible approach. As a passenger it's far more concerning to me that probably over a third of my pilots have completely untreated mental health issues than I would be knowing now and then my pilot might have gone through something in the past but was actively being treated and monitored by a professional that has determined they're not a threat.

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kdegraaf@reddit

Of course that doesn’t work well because people can and will be dishonest

You are so close to getting the point that it's actively painful for the rest of us to watch.

The harder you squeeze on known/managed MH issues in the cockpit, the more unknown/unmanaged MH issues you get.

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rkba260@reddit

And what robust system would prevent unsafe fliers from operating aircraft when "it's not safe to fly"... ?

The system needs work. No argument. But it also STILL needs to protect as well, and lying about or ignoring "severe depression" is a HUGE red flag.

Comparing construction equipment to operating an aircraft is asinine at best, and a bit insulting. You train construction workers like you do pilots AND then get rid of the rampant drug use in the construction industry, then we'll talk. Until then, keep the two separate.

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Approaching_Dick@reddit

That guy had much more going on. He was seeing things to the point that he thought it was an issue with his eyes

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capsug@reddit

And what do you actually know about OP’s situation? Why on earth should the administrator just shrug when confronted with (quoted from the letter) “Major depressive disorder, recurrent, severe”?

You simply should not be flying with that diagnosis. Especially not on a first class medical granting you privileges to fly jets full of the clueless public.

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Approaching_Dick@reddit

Agree probably better that way but these diagnoses depend entirely on what words you use when describing your issue to a doctor

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PWJT8D@reddit

Know your audience. You aren’t winning this one here, bud. Don’t tell them a damn thing. Nobody has ever had depression that works for an airline.

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bhalter80@reddit

If the GW pilot was openly getting help and was compliant with his treatment plan there would be no discussion about him because he'd be getting the help he wanted, and went to great lengths to obtain just a fraction of.

If your knee hurts you go to the orthopedist and can probably fly even if you're wearing a brace

If you have strep throat you go see your gp and can probably fly on antibiotics

if you dick doesn't work you go see your PCP and get on TRT or Viagra and keep flying

Crazy this isn't a templated email, I tried to find the opening paranthesis in the first paragraph for way too long.

Seems pretty clear tho.. Listen to your counsel and no one else.

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Individual-Hair1800@reddit

A lot of pilots lie when applying for that

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TheDreadPirateJeff@reddit

Am I reading that correctly??

“We aren’t demanding that you return it. You should voluntarily return it. Or else.”

Isn’t that still a demand? That’s some mafia level strongly worded hinting.

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GolfiemikeF16@reddit

"I told my AME I had depression"

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Perk_i@reddit

To quote "The Departed"...

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JexiCS@reddit

UK-based PPL student here. I lost my medical about this time last year due to disclosing anxiety-based nausea symptoms (going as far as vomiting and it was definitely impacting my performance in the cockpit). Flying isn't yet a way of life for me and I have other sources of income/hobbies so for me I used my revokation as fuel to motivate myself to finally get on top of my health issues. I have my final referral appointment with a psychologist next month, then a medical flying test and am hoping to have my Class 2 back by summer.

I can't imagine how difficult it must be when you are relying on flying financially and you lose your medical. I was in the fortunate position that I was able to get it sorted before pursuing my ATPL. In my case I'm actually glad I disclosed my issues and was transparent because it's definitely helped me on my path to overcoming it.

Nonetheless, don't think of this as the curtains closing on your flying career. Think of this as a chance for you to get on top of whatever issues you are facing. You will come back stronger.

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TobyADev@reddit

Unless I’ve gone to a doctor for it and there’s an actual paper trail.. “no doctor I feel fine!”

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MrCoolCol@reddit

I made the mistake of telling them I had MDD-R (an overdiagnosis by the VA) two and a half years ago, and I’m only now almost able to get my medical. It’s a loooooong road, but possible.

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Thank you for sharing. How much did it cost you and what did you do?

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MrCoolCol@reddit

It hasn’t been crazy expensive, AME consults really have been the most expensive thing so far. Have you met with yours to discuss paths forward? Those decisions made really affect the outcome and cost: med monitoring program v. avoiding meds (a stupid dichotomy if you ask me). I’m currently waiting on the VA to get back to me to either reevaluate or completely strike the diagnosis from my disability rating as inaccurate. I also went out and got four separate evaluations from psychs that completely disagree with the VA evaluator. I’m not sure if we have the similar situation at all, regardless, it is possible to keep get your medical.

Just be weary of the med monitoring program, according to my AME it’s about $10,000 and at least 6-12 months downtime.

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Electrical-Bed8577@reddit

OK, not reading every comment. Get your ass to a HIMS post haste and note for them the normal grieving associated with losing a regimented, adrenalized life pattern and with team separation (or what have you). Talk to VA about a letter as well, ASAP. You can send it as a follow up when you get it if your local office is busy. Keep an eye on where to submit further documentation.

Do not delay the surrender but send it with further documentation. (1) A brief personal statement from you about separation, grieving, accepting medication as advised, ceasing said meds and your desire for solo flight. (2) A professional statement(s) from a support group, an old doc, anyone with med/psych/social service/VA background. You can state that professional reports will follow. Play the game, keep the door open, show your good natured fortitude.

The stitch is whether this is a downbeat for you that is recurring, deep, untreated or treated by ongoing meds (which can have gnarly side effects). If it's transient and you report back in frequently for group, better. Note it to your file.

Don't give up and don't do nothing. Do one thing. Make clear your desire to fulfill your life plan. Make an appointment.

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EuchreAirGaming@reddit

Fuck the FAA. 🖕They are not for the betterment of aviation. They constantly ignore pilots, the NTSB, and the flying public. But at the same time, swoon to politicians and airlines. No backbone and totally ill equiped to lead the US aviation community. Probably time for another reorg like when the CAA became the FAA in 1958 for many of the same reasons of government incompetence.

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Tony_Three_Pies@reddit

“[…]his letter does not constitute, nor should it be construed as an order or demand for the return of your unexpired medical[…]”

“But if you don’t voluntarily surrender it we’re going to come after with the force of law! But it’s not an order and you better not construe it that way!”

Seriously fuck these people.

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SgtMustang@reddit

You didn’t ask for my take, but I appreciate you calling this out. This double speak gaslighting triggers me a lot because it’s exactly what the mental “wellness” advisor said to me when they not-arrest arrested me for having depression:

“Advisor”: “We’re asking you to come with us voluntarily.”

Me: “Voluntarily - so can I refuse.”

“Advisor”: “You cannot refuse.”

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scigs6@reddit

Seriously man. That was some weird shit to read. Who in the fuck writes this?

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gigaboyo@reddit

This is why I never got a rating when I got out the military. Sounds like a total head ache. Good luck

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

I have a buddy who also has 0 rating but for me I couldn’t get away with it since I already sought mental treatment while still active duty. The FAA would know regardless

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gigaboyo@reddit

Yea that’s always a tough situation especially if you didn’t know you wanted to be a pilot at the time of treatment. Good luck tho I wish you the best!

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Thank you!

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FlyLikeBrick17@reddit

I applied for my 1st class prior to getting the DD214. I was a flyer in the Air Force until the day I retired. Similar to you I disclosed that I would be getting disability. That launched the deep dive into the records. They found a four week period when I was going through a divorce where I took an SSRI.

Thousands of dollars for a HIMS AME and TWO FUCKING YEARS (actually 27 months now) and I still don’t have a medical. Slowly giving up on the dream of ever getting back in the cockpit because it’s perpetually “under review.” Sent letters to congressmen. Nothing. Nightmare stuff. Hold the line where you are now at all costs.

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

Thank you for sharing and I’m sorry to hear that. Did you have an FAA medical before or you just didn’t fly civilian aviation and only focused on military aircraft?

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AdamScotters@reddit

AME’s are like jealous girlfriends. If you tell them too much they’ll find something wrong with you.

Real story I heard where a guys at an AME office

AME: “Do you ever drink?”

Guy: “I drink on special occasions and get together with family”

AME: Gotcha

Guy gets his medical and a some time goes by. Then the guy gets a letter from the FAA saying he needs to surrender his medical certificate. Why? The AME wrote down that he was an alcoholic.

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yankeewhiskeysf@reddit (OP)

No way. I wonder if he was able to get his medical back

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AdamScotters@reddit

Sure he did, he got it back after sacrificing something very crucial to every pilot. Time.

Dr. Cole Weatherby

I was on an SSRI for less than 90 days, 10+ years before I applied (relationship issues, bad breakup). I also had a DWAI back in college (dumb night not a pattern) over 20 years earlier, squeaky clean otherwise both legally and medically. It cost be $5000+ and 2 years to get a 3rd class medical.

I have since gone basic med and will never bother again. Hopefully the FAA/AOPA/EAA changes get in place soon and we will be able to have sport pilot become close to what private is now, and almost all of us 3rd classers can just skip this BS entirely and fly our little cessnas and pipers and kitfoxes in peace.

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JJJJShabadoo@reddit

FAA: "You had a bad day? Well then, you must be severely depressed beyond hope. And not just that, but you're likely to be seriously suicidal. And not just that, but you're likely to be homicidal. Also, willing to destroy tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. Also, wanting to end your life while on the job by flying an aircraft into the ground or a structure.

Because that's the likely risk of having felt depressed.

Now, you're banned for life, and we're going to go ahead and sign off on some radicalized kid with ties to a terrorist group. He's never felt depressed."

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clairesach@reddit

Following their rules, you'd really get the impression that they think it's safer for you and your potential passengers that anyone who has a common and treatable mental health condition stays unmedicated.

There is an organization that is helping to fight this called the Pilot Mental Health Campaign:

https://linktr.ee/pilotmentalhealth

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6371977212112

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Content-Body1665@reddit

If u have severe depression you shouldnt be a pilot. Ur failing the very first things u learn in ground training “IMSAFE and PAVE”

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lambakins@reddit

Depression isn’t a thing you “have” or “don’t have” like diabetes, it’s something you’re experiencing that can come and go. Let’s say you were depressed for a month because your dog died. Maybe that means you shouldn’t fly that month. But does it mean you should never be allowed to be a pilot?

(The FAA would say yes, but the point is that’s ridiculous)

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Content-Body1665@reddit

Thats called being sad. Not depression.

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lambakins@reddit

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jaylw314@reddit

Depression should just flat out not be a limitation on 3rd class medicals. One survey back in 2005 suggested there were 36 fatalities due to suicide in GA over a 21 year period, and supported the conclusion they tended to have no passengers and occur away from populated areas. In contrast, in commercial aviation, a significantly larger percentage of suicides (17% in another study) involved passengers and homicide.

Things like drugs, psychosis, and medications that can have side effects I can understand, but not depression

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Tall-Development8401@reddit

They worry about impaired concentration. That’s a symptom of depression.

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You should check out the Pilot Mental Health Campaign which well known creator Xyla Foxlin has become vocal about due to her being in a similar situation:

https://youtu.be/M7fwyC6wtFg?si=o27AKpCxk52NepAY

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Justaplaneguy@reddit

Check out this group that specializes in this kind of stuff, Wingman Med. they are very experienced in VA/FAA drama.

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UncleJorgeBikeGeek85@reddit

Do the older guys not give the younger guys advice anymore?? I was told as a student (Looooong time ago) you have two Dr’s in your life …your AME and your family Doc. Do not air your soul to your AME …use your family Doc for health problems…

There is a very fine line between honesty and stupidity…

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YaKkO221@reddit

Buddy, you admitted to depression….what did you expect?

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Porky5CO@reddit

It was in his VA paperwork. They were going to find out.

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greenflash1775@reddit

https://wingmanmed.com/

I wonder how rfk jr feels about this

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taint_tattoo@reddit

I sent this letter to an AOPA attorney and he emailed me that I should not surrender my medical.

NEVER SURRENDER!!

DeatHTaXx@reddit

FAA: WhY dO pIlOtS lIe AbOuT mEdIcAl CoNdItIoNs

The best way to go about this is to listen to the AOPA lawyer and do nothing without their approval / consent.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

I received my 1st class medical while I was still active duty military. I told my AME I had depression but getting better and that I was off medication. I left the service in July and received my official VA ratings in September. Before I received my VA ratings, I called the FAA and told them I was pending VA benefits and they sent me a letter asking for my entire medical records.

After a couple of back and forth because they didn’t accept electronic copies and wanted me to print my entire medical records, I sent them everything and this is the response I got. I sent this letter to an AOPA attorney and he emailed me that I should not surrender my medical. I will be talking to him soon. I guess there is a way to fight this? I’m wondering if anyone has gone through similar process. What happens if I surrender and just reapply?

Please downvote this comment until it collapses.

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AutoModerator@reddit

Hi, I'm a bot and it looks like you're asking a question about medical issues: depression.

Medicals can be confusing and even scary, we get it. Unfortunately, the medical process is very complex with many variables. It's too complex, in fact, for any of us to be able to offer you any specific help or advice.

We strongly suggest you discuss your concerns with a qualified aviation medical examiner before you actually submit to an official examination, as a hiccup in your medical process can close doors for you in the future. Your local AME may be able to provide a consultation. Other places that may provide aeromedical advice include: AOPA, EAA, the Mayo Clinic, and Aviation Medicine Advisory Service.

For reference, here is a link to the FAA's Synopsis of Medical Standards and for more in-depth information here is a link to the FAA's Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners.

Also, feel free to browse our collection of past medical write-ups and questions in our FAQ.

Finally, we suggest you read the instructions on the medical application very closely. Do not volunteer information that isn't asked for, but also do not lie. Some people may urge you to omit pertinent information, or even outright lie, on your medical application in order to avoid added hassle and expense in obtaining a medical certificate. Know that making false statements on your medical application is a federal crime and that people have been successfully prosecuted for it. But for heaven's sake, don't tell the FAA any more than you absolutely have to.

If you're not in the United States, the above advice is still generally correct. Just substitute the FAA with your local aviation authority.

Good luck!

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