Why doesn't the NFL and MLB players have the same level of superstardom as NBA players?
Posted by Ill_Tonight6349@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 107 comments
Like everybody knows LeBron James or even Tiger Woods even though I don't watch both the sports but I couldn't name a single American football or basketball player.
MetroBS@reddit
Tom Brady? Patrick Mahomes? Shohei Ohtani?
Physical_Floor_8006@reddit
Tbf tho, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few people that didn't know who they were. Everybody knows Lebron, Jordan. I think it's because individual players don't have the opportunity to dominate like they do in basketball.
There is skill involved in the NFL, for sure, but being a great quarterback is almost like being a great poker player. It just means you perform way better than others on average, not that you viscerally dominate the field each and every game.
tu-vens-tu-vens@reddit
I’d put Tom Brady on the same level as LeBron and Jordan. I also don’t think there are any current NBA stars (yes LeBron is still playing but you know what I mean) on the same level of fame as, say, Patrick Mahomes.
Physical_Floor_8006@reddit
You might be right in that Football more consistently churns out famous athletes, but I would be surprised if you took a poll of how many people in the US could name 5 famous basketball players and 5 famous football players and found that more could do the latter.
That's kind of my point actually. Basketball pumps out more outliers even for those who don't otherwise put much stock in the sport. Within the sport, for those that pay attention, that calculus changes certainly.
So, does Mahomes have more fame than any basketball player at the moment? Possibly, but even that varies wildly depending on region I'd imagine. But has any football player ever risen to the same heights as the most famous basketball players and stayed there for 30+ years? Certainly not, I can't name a single player from that year and I only know Mahomes as a player, I couldn't tell you what team he even plays for or how good he actually is.
tu-vens-tu-vens@reddit
I think the NBA doesn’t produce stars like it used to, though. Even granting that the NFL doesn’t produce as many Shaq/Kobe guys that everyone knows, the NBA isn’t doing that either. The youngest guys who you could put in that category are Kevin Durant or Steph Curry and they both entered the league before 2010. Luka and Giannis are a long way from that. And as the NBA becomes a more international league, that’ll continue to be the case.
coyssiempre@reddit
Tom Brady is definitely more famous than LeBron on a casual, cba level.
shelwood46@reddit
I'd put the international knowledge down to Olympic basketball more than those other things.
Physical_Floor_8006@reddit
Of course you're right on the global scale. I was more focusing on why this trend is true even in places where Football is popular.
relikter@reddit
OJ Simpson, Pete Rose, Aaron Hernandez, Michael Vick,...
coyssiempre@reddit
I think only baseball fans and people from Cincinnati generally know who Pete Rose is. That one is a stretch.
relikter@reddit
I was trying to think of famous MLB players whose reputation was tarnished and Pete was the most famous I could think of. I could've gone with Daryl Strawberry or Shoeless Joe Jackson (though I'm pretty sure he was innocent of cheating), but I think those are even more obscure references.
polelover44@reddit
He almost certainly was not
coyssiempre@reddit
Trevor Bauer. They had to send his ass to Japan lol.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
I think most non-americans wouldn't be able to name them.
Bright_Ices@reddit
So your question is why don’t more people in Banledesg know more about US sports players??
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
I'm not from Bangladesh.
Bright_Ices@reddit
Oh, huh. You’ve talked about it a lot on Reddit lately. Where are you from?
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
I'm from India.
JimBones31@reddit
I couldn't name even one cricket player.
us287@reddit
The MLB is extremely popular in Japan, and a good chunk of the world outside of the US and Japan as well, especially countries that don’t play cricket (unlike India). The NHL is extremely popular in the Nordics and decently popular in Europe, but not in India because ice hockey is rarely played there. The NFL is mostly popular within the US because of the popularity of soccer elsewhere (like India)
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
Soccer isn't even that popular in India either other than in some regions. India has extreme love towards cricket. Like even the 2nd most popular sport would be a far distant 2nd and it's not even soccer recently. It is most likely to be Kabaddi an ancient indigenous sport with its own professional league.
us287@reddit
Yeah, cricket is absolutely king over there - y’all’s IPL is comparable to the NFL/NBA for cricket
Bright_Ices@reddit
Ah! That makes sense. Sorry for assuming.
us287@reddit
Bangladesh, in this case = a random non-American place
Bright_Ices@reddit
Well, I was basing it on OP’s recent comment history.
us287@reddit
Oh, I didn’t see that. Point still stands though - OP is referring to any random non-American place
Welpe@reddit
What, Shohei Ohtani is one of the biggest stars in most of East Asia outside China. Yes, he is utterly massive in Japan, but he is looked up to and respected in South Korea and Taiwan too.
I think you are confusing where you live for “everywhere that isn’t America”.
NFL is basically limited to the US so it makes sense its athletes would only be popular here and Canada. Baseball is MASSIVE in Latin America and East Asia besides China. Basketball is more popular in Europe, but also has increasing popularity in Asia and Africa.
Beyond that, a single basketball player has far more effect on team outcome with teams of 5 active at once instead of 9 or 300,476,293,611 as is in Baseball and Football respectively. Even pitchers and quarterbacks aren’t as influential to their teams as LeBron James was to his.
us287@reddit
The NBA is a more global league - they’ve been successful in marketing globally, and also have a lot of international stars, unlike the MLB (minus Japan), NFL, and NHL (minus Canada of course and the Nordics)
KeyJunket1175@reddit
I have heard of Brady, but only because of some movie I saw recently. I have lived in 3 different countries in Europe, in all 3 places I only ever came across the names of american basketball players. I think nobody talks about NFL or MLB in Europe, but NBA is popular.
MetroBS@reddit
To be fair basketball is by far the most popular American sport in Europe. In South America and Japan it’s definitely baseball and I’m sure people there can name some MLB players
KeyJunket1175@reddit
Yeah, basketball is an easy access sport like soccer and handball, hence popular.
gummi-demilo@reddit
I haven’t been able to name more than a handful of NBA players since the 90s when the Suns had Barkley. I know Kevin Garnett because of Uncut Gems.
devnullopinions@reddit
They do? Your premise is flawed. Patrick Mahomes is talked about way more the LeBron or Tiger nowadays.
coyssiempre@reddit
They do. Way more actually. In the NFL, there have been countless household names like: Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Walter Payton, Dieon Sanders, Michael Vick, Colin Kaepernick (and he wasn't even that good of a player), Peyton Manning, the list could go on.
In baseball: Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Shohei Ohtani, Willie Mays, Lou Gehrig, and so on.
The only NBA players in the history of the league who ever had even as close of a household name as the ones I just named would be LeBron James, Michael Jordan, and maybe Larry Bird.
ATLien_3000@reddit
And this is how we know you're not American.
TheMoonIsFake32@reddit
Football players are very very famous in the United States, but no other countries care about football so obviously they won’t be known worldwide. Baseball just doesn’t have a cultural impact anymore. Ohtani is much more famous in Japan than in the United States. He might even be the most famous person in Japan right now
IllprobpissUoff@reddit
It may just seem that way. In reality the NFL rules America. The nba isn’t as well watched.
TheRealSamC@reddit
Basketball is a much more approachable sport from a fan perspective. You can pick up the basics by just watching a few games. Football is far more complex and thus harder to pick up on for a foreign audience. Baseball is among the most complex games and pretty impossible to understand unless you were raised in a baseball following nation. There was a sportswriter who said if you don't understand baseball by the time you are 10, you never will. Similar to cricket, which is on obscure US TV channels, but really I cannot figure out the rules, and it's US/Canada fans are mostly South Asian or British Caribbean immigrants.
But US (And Canadian, they have a team in Toronto) baseball is followed closely in places like the Spanish Caribbean, Dutch Caribbean, parts of Central America, northern South America, and Japan and Taiwan, where most people can name many players. US baseball is also followed to a degree in Mexico, particularly the north, and has some followers among Dutch Caribbean immigrants in the Netherlands itself. You will see display ads in the stadium of some teams with Japanese players in Japanese, meaning some company has paid big $$ for an ad 99% of people can't read, that is how popular US baseball is in Japan.
The NFL is, by far, the most popular sport in the US, and that really is enough, but it plays games in Europe, Mexico, and most recently in Brazil. But football, of course, is played in a helmet and most of the players are linemen, who don't get a lot of love, even in the US, and most playing careers are much shorter than other sports. But quarterbacks, receivers, and running backs are well known in the US and I'm sure among the people, who show up to the foreign soil games the NFL plays.
Wermys@reddit
NFL unless you are a QB tends to be a team dominated sport. Individual accolades don't mean as much except in a rare few cases. MLB on the other hand has had a decline in popularity as a national sport where it was ubiutis and talked about everywhere in all facets of life. This started to change in the late 80's and early 90's where the sport kinda head a dearth of stars. It wasn't until the steroid era where it had a brief resurgance but that died pretty quickly. Sport still generates a ton of money because of gate receipts but it isn't close to the NFL College Football or the NBA as far as popularity is concerned.
Honestly if you asked me late 80's to ealry 90's players in MLB I could name a ton, but I can't count beyond 10 now a days. While as a hoops Junky probably name 50+.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
What do you think contributed to the dying popularity of baseball? Is it viewer fatigue? Do people even care to watch your team play 162 regular season games?
The place where I come from the other bat and ball game is thriving!!
lupuscapabilis@reddit
I think there's a bit of a misconception about baseball. The world series last year had more viewers than the NBA finals. Basketball has been losing viewers a lot more than baseball in the last few years.
Honestly, I still know tons of baseball fans but hardly anyone I know follows the NBA these days.
Wermys@reddit
The game is slower paced. So it has a harder time with people and attention spans. While Football while it can be slow. Is basically 50 plays lasting 10-20 seconds when anything can happen. NBA also has a lot more motion as well. Baseball other problem is that its regional. Back in the 80's and early 90's you could toon into a radio station and listen to an afternoon game even if you had no local team. But that started to change as taste changed in the consumption of sports. The final nail was the strike season which pretty much pushed it out of sight and mind to the populace. Steroid drew attention back but after it was found out how widespread it was this turned people off. Honesty baseball probably needs to get a salary cap. OR relegation. Expand MLB to 40+ teams and just have a second division where teams get relegated every year. Thight might spike more interest. But owners will never allow this to happen.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
I think this is the area where cricket has outdone any other sport in the world, i.e, adaptability with time.
Can you believe that cricket first started out with each match being played over 5 days continuously with 7-8 hrs being played everyday?
Then this was reduced to a 8-9 hrs match finished within a day.
Then they went even shorter to 3-4 hrs a match which is called T20 format and this has proved to be a game changer as the popularity of cricket has exploded after this.
Maybe baseball should do something of the sort? Introduce new rules, tweak old rules, fasten up the game, make games more eventful, more dramatic?
Wermys@reddit
They are. In the past there was no pitch clock. Batters could step in and out of the batting box. PIck offs to first could make innings last longer. They have steadily cut the time down for the game. But the bottom line is that Baseball just doesn't translate well to television. Fun to go to for a game. Where you relax enjoy the weather some food and watch the game. But at home there are too many distractions to do this. That is why it is a strong regional sport. And still earns a ton of money due to ticket receipts. But as I said doesn't translate well to tv. To give some perspective as a kid my favorite team was the Minnesota Twins. Win or lose I never got angry etc. Just always cheering them. While in the NBA games could turn on a dime. I was a Suns fan in the 90's. In 93 they were in the Finals against Chicago. Game 6 they were up until the fucker John Paxson hit a game winning 3. I slammed my first through a table because of how angry I got. Just from how violent a turn around games can be in the NBA. Anyways. Some sports translate well to TV like Basketball and American Football. Baseball isn't one of them.
Kman17@reddit
I actually think NBA and NFL are comparable levels of fame. The NFL is twice as popular, but the careers are typically half as long.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
I was shocked to know that each baseball team plays 162 regular season games every year. That's like playing a game every other day. How does this work? Doesn't this cause viewer fatigue? Player fatigue? In IPL( biggest cricket league) for example, each team only plays 14 regular season games and that's considered a lot.
lupuscapabilis@reddit
One of my joys in life is having the Yankee game on at night while I do other things. I don't even watch almost anything else on TV. There's no viewer fatigue here.
Kman17@reddit
Baseball is not a strenuous game.
A game is like 3 hours. A visiting team will stay in the city for a week, playing 3-5 games over the span of 3-5 days.
The pitcher is the only one exerting major strain, and they only play every out of every 4-5 games; they rotate them.
tu-vens-tu-vens@reddit
It’s strenuous enough that players will get overuse injuries if they’re not careful. Pitchers have it the worst here, but there are plenty of position players who see the IL during the season.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
Cricket isn't either. A test match is played for 5 days continuously each day for 7-8 hrs. And 5 match test series aren't very uncommon.
The main reason IPL is kept short is because of the international schedule and the fear of viewer fatigue! Don't you think that's the main reason behind the dwindling popularity of baseball? If you play a game every other day don't fans simply stop giving a fcuk?
lupuscapabilis@reddit
Aaron Judge??
Nice-Zombie356@reddit
NFL teams have 50+ players on the roster and they wear helmets when they play. And they play just 17 games.
NBA teams have 15 players and they wear shorts and tank tops and you see their faces at all times. By far the most visible. 82 games.
Baseball has 40 players on a roster but you also (generally) see always their faces on TV , and they play 162 games per season.
DogOrDonut@reddit
In America, NFL players are far more famous than basketball players. I can't tell you why NFL players aren't famous in your country.
CarolinaRod06@reddit
Patrick Mahomes could walk into a room and a lot of non sports fans wouldn’t know who he was. He’s arguably the biggest star in the NFL right now. LeBron, Curry and other NBA stars are more well known especially outside of sports fans. Even look at the social media followings. Mahomes 6m Curry 60m LeBron 159m. Even Lamelo Ball had double the social media following as Mahomes
DogOrDonut@reddit
LeBron is the only basketball player I could identify if I saw him and it's only because of the movie Trainwreck. Curry could be sitting next to me and I would have no idea. The only other basketball player I can name is Kevin? Durant and again, 0 clue what he looks like.
JoeyAaron@reddit
You're right that the most famous NFL players might be more able to walk into a room unnoticed compared to a famous NBA player, but their name and accomplishments are just as well known as the NBA player.
Social media isn't real life. NFL players don't have large social media profiles for a couple reasons. Their fans don't care about social media like NBA fans and NFL players generally don't have that personality type. There's a reason NFL players are fine playing in Green Bay and Kansas City, but every elite NBA player dies inside at the thought of playing in Sacramento or Indianapolis. There's a cultural difference in the athletes.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
Are they more famous than LeBron?
DogOrDonut@reddit
Depends how good they are. There are way more players in the NFL than the NBA. I would say that the top QBs of any generation (so like Brady and Mahomes) are more famous than LeBron.
Thinking about your question more, I think the answer is that for non-fans of the sport the sheer number of players in the NFL just leads to each player being mentioned less often. Way more Americans watch football than basketball but football commentary has to cover a lot more ground. There are 15 players on basketball team (and the same 5 play most of the game) while there are 53 players on an NFL team and every player sits at least half the game. Football players share the limelight way more than basketball players do so you may only hear about 1 player (Lebron) but in great detail where as in football you are spreading that same level of attention/knowledge across a dozen players.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
Also I think the fact that top basketball players can single-handedly win you matches with little help from other players also contribute to their superstardom?
CaterpillarFun6896@reddit
Because (American) football and baseball are significantly less popular sports on the global market. Basketball, meanwhile, is actually quite popular internationally.
Also willing to bet you know Tiger for reasons not directly related to his golfing…
TheBimpo@reddit
Those leagues promote teams, the NBA promotes players.
Cheap_Coffee@reddit
I'm not sure this is a problem we need to solve.
ToTooTwoTutu2II@reddit
MLB has lost it's popularity, but NFL players are much more popular within the US than NBA players.
Designer-Carpenter88@reddit
Because there is more of them. 52 players on each team. What are there on an NBA team? 10?
BoseSounddock@reddit
You’re just wrong. I could probably find you 50 Americans off the street in 15 minutes that can’t pronounce Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s name correctly, but they will know Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce.
Gold_Telephone_7192@reddit
In the US? There are definitely more NFL players that are known by non sports fans than NBA players. It’s a much more popular sport. There are probably 2-5 NBA players that are known by name by non sports fans vs like 10-20 NFL players.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
But I guess those 2-5 NBA players do have absolute superstardom compared to those 10-20 NFL players?
JoeyAaron@reddit
The most famous NBA and NFL players are roughly comparable, I'd say.
MetroBS@reddit
In the US their fame is relatively comparable
Gold_Telephone_7192@reddit
In the US, not more so than the top NFL players. In the world, definitely more. But also that’s mostly just because of Curry and LeBron. Once they retire, the amount of people in the US and worldwide who can name an active NBA player is going to drop significantly.
amcjkelly@reddit
I think that is a perception issue. NBA is more popular around the world.
In the actual US, more people know famous Baseball/football players.
Weightmonster@reddit
They do…
Adjective-Noun123456@reddit
I can name more college football players than I can active NBA players.
There's LeBron. Wade, I think? Does he still play? And some guy named Luke.
ReadinII@reddit
One reason is that basketball teams are smaller and the game is played within a smaller area without hats or helmets. This allows spectators to easily see the players faces and to have fewer players to keep track of during a game.
BACKCUT-DOWNHILL@reddit
Basketball is also more of a world sport
cdb03b@reddit
They do.
tangouniform2020@reddit
How many Americans can name a British or Spanish footballer? Or a cricket player. Hamilton, Max, name a third F1 driver.
The NBA is more international players than the NFL and the MLB has Japanese and some Central and South American players but nowhere else. Basketball has more total international exposure and so logically more players would recognizable
jrhawk42@reddit
I'm guessing you're not from the US. In the US they have the same level of stardom, but internationally Basketball is a bigger sport. I would say this is mostly because of Michael Jordan and the 1992 Olympics. It gave basketball a center stage globally, and the dream team was amazing to watch. Jordan was the perfect spokesperson. Charismatic, top of his game, yet kinda relatable ("be like Mike" had just caught on in the US) it was what everybody was talking about for 1992 olympics. It really pushed basketball from an "American" sport to an international sport.
glowing-fishSCL@reddit
Another thing to factor in is that especially lately, NBA players have started having very long careers. Especially compared to the NFL, which is very physical and can chew and spit players out quickly, NBA players can easily play for ten years...or more. Someone like LeBron James is famous because he has been playing for 20 years. That allows his face and persona to become a part of popular culture.
MaleficentCoconut594@reddit
Ironic because basketball is probably the third (if not more) most popular behind both NFL and baseball. LeBron is one name, I couldn’t name any other current NBA players. However there is Aaron Rodger’s, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Daniel’s….etc etc
EpicBlinkstrike187@reddit
NHL is far far behind MLB and NBA in popularity in the US.
NBA and MLB are interchangeable as 2nd behind the NFL imo, Ive seen numbers support both of them as being 2nd. They’ve been very very close to each other in ratings lately.
glowing-fishSCL@reddit
I think that is very much a regional thing, also maybe an age thing.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
Curry?
fleetpqw24@reddit
Isn’t that an Indian dish made with spices and rice? /s
Bright_Ices@reddit
Tiger woods is a golfer lol
And NFL players probably have more babe recognition than NBA players, in the aggregate.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
Yeah I meant that!! Even a golfer is more popular outside of America than American football or baseball players is what I meant.
Bright_Ices@reddit
The edits you’ve made help a lot with the question. Yeah, baseball and American football just aren’t that popular in most of the world. Except Japan is really into baseball.
TeamTurnus@reddit
Yah that's cause those sports are played more outside the us, baseball and American football are both sports with non American counterparts like cricket rugby, which probally have made attempts to spread their popularity less effective than the NBAs
Rich-Contribution-84@reddit
In the U.S., yeah. Nobody gives a shit about American football outside of the USA and to some extent Canada and Mexico.
Bright_Ices@reddit
Yeah, if that’s what OP is trying to get at, I agree with your answer.
polandonjupiter@reddit
American football isnt really big anywhere else but the US. Most people in the US are able to name a football player. IMO NBA hasn't had the relevance it had in the 2000s, everything with sports I learned from my parents and we still do appreciate the old and OG players like shaq and michael jordan. (I don't actively watch sports don't diss) New players in the NBA just don't get the spotlight the OG players did 😞
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
The reason I think American football is not popular outside is because it has a very high barrier to entry. You need proper grass fields and protection equipment to play the sport.
polandonjupiter@reddit
It is a really difficult sport to get into. Alot of the men who play are extremely tall and muscular and strong, It's not casual at all. The bar is extremely high for sure
quikdogs@reddit
I couldn’t name a single world football player other than Pele. I don’t watch other people exercise. I only know Pele because I met him.
PlantedinCA@reddit
I heard an interesting theory once that basketball stars are easier to see. There are no masks and pads and the action is close up and easy to zoom in on.
Ill_Tonight6349@reddit (OP)
Also another reason could be the contribution of a single top basketball player to the team is significantly higher as compared to the other 2 sports?
amethystalien6@reddit
Because yall don’t watch those sports?
KeyJunket1175@reddit
I am not an American, I am from Europe, but this is an interesting question. Basketball is played and popular everywhere across the globe. It is an easy access sport, with simple rules. American Football needs a huge field and expensive gear. Basketball needs an odd shaped field and special gear. Their rules are also less usual.
420CurryGod@reddit
Because basketball is the only one of those three that’s commonly played internationally and there’s less NBA players per team so it’s easier for them to become household names.
But also if you go to Central America or Japan you’ll get plenty of people that know baseball players more than basketball. Go up to Canada and you’ll see that but for the NFL.
VULCAN_WITCH@reddit
It's not the only reason but basketball is by its nature a game in which elite players almost inevitably have an enormous impact on team success, whereas in football and baseball even the very best players cannot carry a team single handedly. A elite offensive basketball player, for instance, can handle the ball on every possession they want. Whereas there is simply no way within the rules that an elite offensive baseball player can come to the plate more than one time in nine.
Rich-Contribution-84@reddit
Because baseball and American football are American sports that aren’t popular or followed closely in most countries, save Japan, Korea, and several Caribbean and South American countries. American football and baseball have some Of the most domestically famous athletes in the USA, like Pat Mahomes and Aaron Judge and Shohei Ohtani, these guys are all Household names in the USA (and Japan) but people in most countries just don’t follow American football, especially.
Football/soccer, tennis, and golf are highly popular in a much larger number of countries. Basketball was the same way until David Stern and Michael Jordan and Nike and McDonalds started focusing exporting basketball to the world in preparation for Barcelona.
snowbirdnerd@reddit
There are just less NBA players. Which means people pay attention to the individual stars.
EffectiveNew4449@reddit
Have you been living under a rock?
Whole_Ad_4523@reddit
Don’t know where you’re from. Baseball is the most popular sport in the Caribbean and Japan. NBA has a huge following in parts of Europe. NFL is mostly a way to sell domestic beer and fool people into gambling
Odd-Local9893@reddit
Basketball is popular worldwide. In the U.S. NFL is number 1.
Asparagus9000@reddit
There are some pretty famous NFL and MLB players, but part of it is there are less people on NBA teams than the other sports.
Whole_Ad_4523@reddit
Because those are the ones we like.