Got let go on Monday
Posted by wiskinator@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 30 comments
I’d been with this startup for about 2.5 years, and I basically wanted to work there forever. I loved the work, the team, my lead, I even thought management only screwed up about 50% of the time.
On Monday, after some feedback at the beginning of the month, I was let go for “not meeting the very high expectations of my level”.
I’ve already got interviews lined up, but damn if this doesn’t do a number on my confidence.
Been coding since freshman year of college, in y2k. Maybe I should see about landing a manager role at a new place.
halfercode@reddit
It's a start-up, don't take it personally. What country is this in? Did you have prior conversations with an EM about improving your performance?
wiskinator@reddit (OP)
This is right in the heart of everything, (or so we tell ourselves…) San Francisco. And no, the only convo was at perf review 6 weeks ago
halfercode@reddit
Hm, gotcha. Well the original post is now deleted, but I seem to recall you'd been there fore a couple of years. If they have only just brought up a performance problem, then either the engineering manager is incompetent, or they were lying about performance being the reason.
A good rule of thumb for letting someone go is that it should never be a surprise; if it is, then the employee was clearly not given a chance to improve things.
wiskinator@reddit (OP)
Yeah, the post was removed because it wasn’t “specific to experienced devs” lol. The pedantry of mod teams never ceases to amaze me.
The funny thing is that the “feedback should not be a surprise thing” is quoted over and over at this place. And yet the firing was as much as a surprise as the initial bad feedback.
But thanks for validating :)
halfercode@reddit
No worries. Are you remaining on good terms on anyone there? It might be interesting to see how your removal affects the rest of the team - they might want to move on if capricious firing is the policy.
And, of course, if the startup is having cashflow problems, they might have to get rid of more people. It's not a pleasant business, but people don't work at startups for stability!
PM_40@reddit
If you have writing code for 25 years and have survived so many boom and bust cycles the odds that you are incompetent is really really low. In most cases it is a case of bad fit or organizational restructuring.
wiskinator@reddit (OP)
Hey, thank you. The reminder that I’m probably not incompetent is actually great to hear, even from a stranger in the internet. Thank you. Genuinely.
ExperiencedDevs-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 3: No General Career Advice
This sub is for discussing issues specific to experienced developers.
Any career advice thread must contain questions and/or discussions that notably benefit from the participation of experienced developers. Career advice threads may be removed at the moderators discretion based on response to the thread."
General rule of thumb: If the advice you are giving (or seeking) could apply to a “Senior Chemical Engineer”, it’s not appropriate for this sub.
ThlintoRatscar@reddit
This sucks. It just does.
However, everyone that I've laid off has ended up doing better at stronger and healthier companies. It's almost always a life upgrade after this terrifying time.
And, it is terrifying.
Startups are a dream, and if that dream doesn't come true, it's extremely rough on everyone. Results matter, and every paycheque comes from someone else's revenue. No revenue, no pay.
Your full time job now is finding another. It's scary, but you'll be ok. Hit the gym, go outside, read, and practice coding. It can be a great opportunity to build a better you.
Management is not easier to get or to do. The person who laid you off? They know you probably hate them and wish them ill. And if not you, others will for hurting you this way. Unless the company magically turns around ( unlikely ), they are probably going to have to do that again and finally get laid off themselves, but without the technical skills and utility that you have.
Do you really want to be that guy?
Time_Phone_1466@reddit
I think one of the supporting reasons behind your statement is that, usually, by the time you're laid off the environment is not as great as you think. A little time away and acceptance at another role puts things in perspective. Additionally, our brains are pretty great at helping see the new perspective as good if at all possible.
its_yer_dad@reddit
honestly, don't take it too personally. HR gives all kinds of bullshit reasons to cut people loose.
_ak@reddit
What OP wrote when they started programming implies they have about 20 YoE. With that context, it sounds like low-key old age discrimination. Suddenly performance didn't match the company's expectation even though their performance was alright for the years before.
gjionergqwebrlkbjg@reddit
HR doesn't typically make this kind of decisions.
Status-Arrival-3757@reddit
That doesn't mean they can't be the messenger of some bullshit reason.
GrumpsMcYankee@reddit
This. Don't read into the reason they give, it could have been anything. Only take to hear the feedback you received from people you trust. Good luck at the next role, we all shuffle along until we retire.
Grubsnik@reddit
Startup is probably nearing the end of their runway and is trying to stretch things a bit longer without causing an exodus of talent. So performance is given as reason, when it’s just a matter of reducing burn rate
milkedout@reddit
In startups everyone is a liability reducing their runway. 2.5 years is a lot unless the startup you were at was taking off. I wouldn't view it as a performance issue as most startups will have you out the door in 30 days or less of service if you aren't great. Money is hard to come by these days in the VC world so probably just saving some money going on here
angryplebe@reddit
True. Startups in particular are very fast at getting rid of low performers and poor fits. I think the record I saw was 3 weeks.
InterestedBalboa@reddit
Don’t go into management thinking it means safer jobs or if you don’t enjoy the work.
Middle management is often let go early on when layoffs take place. Management means getting results through others, it means meetings and politics.
forgottenHedgehog@reddit
Not to mention that people who are going into management to escape something are pretty consistently the most shit managers you can encounter.
InterestedBalboa@reddit
Great point, I wholeheartedly agree!
GrumpsMcYankee@reddit
And it's tougher finding roles as you leave the code.
PM_40@reddit
This, also management unfortunately doesn't translate that well between companies because management is very contextual to the company culture.
Future_Deer_7518@reddit
Most probably it is a budget. I'm in the same situation (but have only 15 yoe), was kicked off from probation juat day after tarifs were introduced. It is a tough time now and companies are looking for simple ways to optimize their costs. When money is not a problem they will stick to you if you can give at least minimal result and be reliable without baby sitting and mentoring every week. Otherwise it is a pain in the ass to find a replacement, wait for termination (it is up to 6 months in EU!), hire and train new guy.
kevinkaburu@reddit
I've worked for start-ups too and know how you feels.
All I can say is - the experience has given us the confidence to try other things including coding if that suits your interest and frame of mind.
In my case, I keep getting recruited by other start-ups, and yet, all they offer is company shares, work for free even.
But yeah, re-org happens, companies want you out so give you outrageous constructive feedback. Hope the interviews go well for you!
(My stint was 5 years with one and 3.5 years with another)
amejin@reddit
Ive worked at companies that let extremely high performers go for "not meeting expectations." When someone needs to balance a budget, they will find any excuse to do it.
Just remember - you have to respect someone for their opinion of you to matter.
JonnyAFKay@reddit
We're numbers on a spreadsheet.
It's sad the way the industry has gone but the sooner people like OP accept that the better.
chaos_chimp@reddit
Learn this corporate lesson now and learn it well: “Never ever take ANY of your employer’s decisions personally.”
Companies are created with 1 purpose and 1 purpose only - to make money. Their decisions have nothing to do with you. What might seem like your failures, are most likely decisions that work out better for the company.
tigerlily_4@reddit
Sorry but companies are barely hiring experienced managers now. They’re definitely not going to be eager to hire someone with no prior management experience for a manager role.
txiao007@reddit
Blessings in disguise.
Your next job will pay you more