2A question - What do you do when your 4A rights are violated?
Posted by JeffFromTheBible@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 164 comments
Agents with no warrants can legally enter your home. What happens next? Is Castle Doctrine dead?
bpg2001bpg@reddit
This is a tough one. Home invaders have and will bang on the door and yell "Seattle PD, warrant!" Before kicking in the door.
This is why having a good door frame and lock and a camera system you can talk though is essential.
Don't open the door. And if you don't see a badge and a warrant, some say "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Follow your insticts and your training.
rymden_viking@reddit
They don't have to show you the warrant. And if they do have a warrant and you deny them entry you're fucked. If you let them in because they say they have a warrant and they don't, you're fucked. That Supreme Court case that said all law enforcement can lie to you whenever they want because sometimes they go undercover really fucked us.
Acceptable-Height173@reddit
The only thing that they CANNOT lie about is having a warrant.
That was specifically mentioned in the academy.
iMNqvHMF8itVygWrDmZE@reddit
Whether or not police have to show you a warrant seems to be up to the states, but as far as I can tell, most states do require law enforcement to show you a warrant. You are also not fucked if you don't let them in, at least not legally. You aren't compelled by a warrant to let the police into your home. However, they are empowered to force entry if you don't grant it.
While you're right that the police can lie about a lot of things, the Supreme Court has found, on multiple occasions, that they cannot lie about having a warrant (see Bumper v. North Carolina or Hadley vs Williams). They can lie and say they're "getting a warrant" but they cannot say they actually have one if they don't. They can't even imply that they have one if they don't.
rymden_viking@reddit
I think in all states police are not required to show you a warrant before entering. If they have a warrant they can go in. End of story. Showing it to you before going in is a courtesy. They can cuff you and stand you in front of your neighbors for hours before they show you the warrant.
You're right about lying and legal searches. My point though is that you can never trust what any local or federal law enforcement officer tells you. And if you challenge them on a warrant by refusing to open your door you're either obstructing law enforcement or obstructing law enforcement. If they have a warrant you're fucked. If they don't have a warrant and they come in anyways the search is illegal. But you still obstructed them. It's the same principle as being arrested for nothing other than resisting arrest.
You can let them in if they falsely claim they have a warrant. But then you're opening yourself up to a dipshit judge ruling the search is legal because you let them in. When it comes to these things the courts have crafted many scenarios that put us in a catch 22. Law enforcement can create scenarios where you are damned no matter what decision you make. There's little recourse for you and no consequences for them.
iMNqvHMF8itVygWrDmZE@reddit
Refusing to let them in does not constitute obstruction or interference and is not illegal. These charges require you to make an active effort to obstruct or interfere. Inaction is not obstruction. Warrants do not compel you to assist law enforcement (that would be a 5A violation). You don't have to let them in, you just can't make an active effort to prevent them from entering.
No, the search is unlawful and any evidence obtained from it is inadmissable. This specific scenario was addressed in one of the Supreme Court cases I previously mentioned (Bumper v. North Carolina). The court held that a search cannot be justified by consent if that "consent" was given after law enforcement has asserted that they have a warrant.
rymden_viking@reddit
People get arrested for obstruction all the time without physically obstructing police. I agree in principle with everything you've been saying. But that doesn't mean it'll work out in your favor in court.
iMNqvHMF8itVygWrDmZE@reddit
"Actively" obstructing is different from "physically". You can obstruct without the obstruction being physical, such as deleting digital files that were the subject of a warrant. I've never heard of anyone charged with obstruction for inaction, I'd love to see an example if you have any. (Well...I'd hate it, but you know what I mean.)
The only thing I could think of that would come close is refusing to cooperate with a subpoena, but I believe in that case you're charged with contempt of court, and subpoenas are an entirely different thing from warrants.
Double_Minimum@reddit
ICE does not need a warrant now… and I have a feeling they won’t be knocking… so your 4th amendment rights are just gone. That metal door will be great to re-lose that forced reset trigger, bump stock, or whatever. And once inside, it would be foolish to think ICE is going to see no hidden migrants and move on without looking a tad harder and finding your sons weed stash or anything else that could be illegal in your home (or seem illegal).
Jaruut@reddit
I would never fall for that, I don't live in Seattle
RandoAtReddit@reddit
You're out of your jurisdiction, motherfucker!
Gold_City9069@reddit
Haha good one
PrometheanEngineer@reddit
Anyone defending this is insane.
As a reminder, every damn amendment is critical.
We have documented proof that we have sent at least one US citizen to ElSalvador with no trial.
Whats stopping them from a parent less search and sending you there? You going to lay down and take it? Can't take it to court, you'll be deported to a foreign prison.
ReptillusMax@reddit
An asylum seeker is not a US permanent resident, let alone US citizen. They're a resident alien. In the case of Kilmar he entered the country crossing the border illegally. No US citizen has been sent to El Salvador.
Mogetfog@reddit
Just going to ignore that part where Trump said "home growns are next!"? The shit head does not care if you are a citizen or not. Starting with non citizens is just a stepping stone to anyone they deem "undesirable".
ReptillusMax@reddit
I honestly support deporting repeat violent criminals to El Salvador prison even if they're US citizens. They definitely are undesirable and detrimental to society. Nothing to be scared of unless you're one of those lowlifes.
ashy_larrys_elbow@reddit
That is the dumbest fucking take I’ve seen today and I’ve been on twitter this morning. What makes you think you won’t be the “undesirable” the next time around. What makes you think they’re going to respect ANY of your civil liberties going forward (including your right to bear arms) if you’re so cavalier about giving up YOUR constitutional rights.
ReptillusMax@reddit
Think deathrow, would you rather them die or live somewhere else? Constitution gives you right to life but if you fuck up so bad you end up on the death row, you don't have that right anymore. That's how the law works buddy, welcome to the real world.
Dr_Salacious_B_Crumb@reddit
We got a real baby-brained idiot over here.
ashy_larrys_elbow@reddit
Yeah, bootlicking politicians who willfully violate the constitution is how we keep our “constitutional rights”. It’s this kind of shortsighted nonsense that has resulted in most of those rights being degraded over the years. The road to losing your rights are paved with good intentions. Did you cheer on the patriot act too? Did you also think they were only going to go after “terrorists”? Lol. When the political pendulum swings, and you lose your 2nd amendment rights because people in charge think you’re a “domestic terrorist” for your opinions and you gave the state power and precedent to shit on the constitution… I hope you enjoy your “real world”
ReptillusMax@reddit
You forfeit your own constitutional rights when you commit crimes. You can't possess a firearm if you commit a felony. That's how the justice system works. If you entered illegally, you get deported. Trump's not violating the constitution. You're just falling for the fearmongering and gaslighting propaganda.
ashy_larrys_elbow@reddit
Yeah you missed the part where you advocated for violating the constitution. You don’t get to pick and choose which parts of the constitution you like and which ones you want to ignore. That’s not how the constitution works.
ReptillusMax@reddit
You forfeit your own constitutional rights when you commit crimes. You can't possess firearm if you commit a felony. That's how the justice system works. If you entered illegally, you get deported. Trump's not violating the constitution. You're just falling for the fearmongering and gaslighting propaganda.
PrometheanEngineer@reddit
Yeah fuck the constitution when it suits me
ReptillusMax@reddit
Think deathrow, would you rather them die or live somewhere else? Constitution gives you right to life but if you fuck up so bad you end up on the death row, you don't have that right anymore. That's how the law works buddy, welcome to the real world.
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
This is incorrect, even if you say it with your chest.
Due process applies to everyone physically present in the U.S. regardless of how they entered.
Not only is the constitution clear on this (any “person” on U.S soil is entitled to constitutional protections) but so is the Supreme Court: Zadvydas v. Davis, Wong Wing v. United States…hell they ruled on THIS very case.
People arguing against this man (and any like him) being entitled to due process are flat out wrong. This is absurd.
You’re free to want people deported without due process but unless you’re also proposing a constitutional amendment, pretending it’s already legal is a convenient distortion of reality.
ReptillusMax@reddit
Then explain Obama deporting the most in history. I didn't hear you complaining back then. Only a problem because Trump.
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
Is "things Obama did" how we determine what is and isn't a constitutional right? Respectfully, that is such a depressing argument to keep seeing over and over again.
I didn't even know about this back then. If I did, I'd think it was wrong. Just like I thought his drone strikes and misuse of the NSA was wrong. I was protesting both of those, I wasn't some Obama glazer, that's not how the left worked back then at all. Such a lazy argument.
Since I was hearing that so much I took the hour to actually research it. He did deport people but he used expedited removal - he sped everything up, which is easily argued as a shitty move but the literal bare minimum. The process still technically happened, it was just (to some, myself included) questionably fast.
Not only has Kilmar had no formal trial, multiple judges (all the way to the supreme court) ruled he be entitled to trial.
Violating that is absurd, arguing for that to be commonplace is nothing short of arguing we suspend or alter the constitution.
ReptillusMax@reddit
At the end of the day, I'm not losing sleep over this. Kilmar came illegally, is a violent gang member, and a domestic abuser. I agree it would be better if he gets trial, but that's just another delay for him to commit more crimes. The US is safer without him. Good riddance.
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
Like I originally said it’s your right to argue this person shouldn’t be entitled to due process.
So long as you are grounded in reality and admit while doing so, you’re asking that someone (and people like them) to be stripped of their constitutional rights.
Playing both sides of that argument is gross and frankly, getting away with the claim of enforcing the constitution while arguing against it is not something anyone should ever be allowed to do.
Dr_Salacious_B_Crumb@reddit
It’s like arguing with my dad, man. Every valid point about our constitutional rights being slowly walked back, it’s always some bullshit excuse me
“Well he’s a bad guy. I’m not losing sleep over it”
“It’ll clog up the courts”
“Does the constitution even apply to non citizens?”
SHUT THE FUCK UPPPPP.
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
Yeah that was a pretty sad interaction, bro is cooked.
ReptillusMax@reddit
Well I would argue that the constitution only applies to citizens of the United States. And I do believe that the Supreme Court misinterpreted it. It's unfair that noncitizens get the same guarantees and rights as citizens, especially after they broke into the country illegally. Even worse if they commit violent crimes. I think that's disgusting and unfair to law abiding citizens who become victims to crimes that weren't supposed to happen had the illegal got deported or denied entry. Lakan Riley and Rachel Morin comes to mind.
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
Your argument would be factually and constitutionally incorrect.
Your argument would also be that we can willingly disregard the decisions of three courts, one of which is the highest in the land.
You’re essentially arguing for anarchy and another word that starts with “f” that has been tossed around liberally but in this case, may actually apply.
ReptillusMax@reddit
3 opinions don't make it a fact
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
Not opinions. Legal rulings, including the Supreme Court.
If the SC rules someone is constitutionally entitled to a trial - that’s a fact.
As you’d say, even if it hurts your feelings.
ReptillusMax@reddit
Ruling can ve overturned, e.g. Roe v Wade. Therefore I am correct that ruling is nothing more than a legal opinion. It's by no means a fact. Sorry, the fact is on my side. And by the way most Americans are on my side on mass deportations.
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
lol
Then overturn it then, you can’t skip that step 🤣
ReptillusMax@reddit
I can foresee it being overturned with how things are heading these days. And because it's an opinion, and all your arguments are based on opinions. But that's fine, you're free to have your opinions, you just don't have any authority that you thought you had.
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
With your logic, 2A can be revoked with the stroke of a pen.
What a ridiculous conversation.
ReptillusMax@reddit
If you get charged with a felony crime, yeah that's what happens, yeah. This illegal commited multiple crimes, so it's only fair and just that he be deported.
You went from debating on good faith to misrepresenting what I said.
glockster19m@reddit
Except being charged with a crime doesn't mean you did it, and you don't lose your 2A rights unless you're convicted
In your system being charged with a crime means you're guilty, so I guess we don't need a legal system anymore, and police can just choose who they want to arrest for what and how long they want to hold them for
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
Your logic is that because a Supreme Court ruling can be overturned, it’s void, even before it’s overturned.
I guess we should just hand over our guns now since all the rulings enforcing 2A could be overturned one day?
That’s literally the basis of your argument, there’s no bad faith interpretation, it’s just silly.
ReptillusMax@reddit
No that's clearly not what I said. I said that you used Supreme Court rulings as a matter of fact that gives you authority to say that it's unconstitutional that illegals be deported, which is rather overconfident. A Supreme Court ruling can be precedent, but it's not a matter or fact. It's an opinion, or rather an interpretation of the Constitution. There are grey areas. For instance, gun owners would like to have as much leeway in the 2A, and yet the Supreme Court ruled that machine guns can be regulated. That's the ruling. Does that make it a fact? I don't think so, because the 2A of the Constitution doesn't exempt machine guns. And yet it's the current interpretation, which may or may not be overturned in the future.
EndlessSummerburn@reddit
And right now, until it’s challenged, those machine gun regulations are the law. No? You couldn’t possibly argue otherwise…
hunanmuhammad@reddit
You are what Lenin would call a useful idiot who where also the first people he turned on by the way.
Bloodhound209@reddit
Ummm.....yes, he is afforded garunteed rights, especially due process rights.
Page 3 from the recent Supreme Court ruling:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a931_2c83.pdf
ReptillusMax@reddit
Which he did got his due process and the ruling was that he is protected from being returned to his home country, but could be deported to any other country. Also the ruling was to facilitate (help) his return but not forcibly return him to US soil.
Bloodhound209@reddit
Then please explain why the fuck he got returned to [and is still in the custody of] his home country.
Another Strawman argument. No one said anything about "forcibly" returning him to the US. We didn't "force" Russia to return Brittany Griner. There are MANY ways to facilitate a person's return that are not "forcible."
Seriously. Please. Log off, grab your nice Nikon, and go touch grass for a week or two.
CosmicBoat@reddit
Our education system is fucked
GodsChosenSpud@reddit
Maybe not El Salvador, but the commander-in-cheeto did just deport a 2-year-old US citizen to Honduras with her mother.. The current administration does not give a flying fuck about your rights or due process.
KrinkyDink2@reddit
What should have happened to the 2 year old if their mother was properly deported without adequate family in the US?
Bloodhound209@reddit
Those are all, genuinely, great questions...that should be presented to an immigration judge, who understands the laws and nuances like these better than Reddit. But that didn't happen; hence why the focus needs to be on the "due process" argument.
KrinkyDink2@reddit
Sounds like you’re less bothered by the outcome than the fact the judge’s ass didn’t get kissed in the process.
Bloodhound209@reddit
On the contrary, I am greatly bothered by the outcome of this event. People who should have been given their due process were denied that fundamental right and were, consequently, deported.
Your first question was based on 1 specific, potential outcome and skipped the due process portion of that scenario. I counter that there are other potential outcomes that (legally and morally) benefit everyone, based on solutions that only an immigration judge can offer. But again, none of those solutions were explored because due process didn't take place.
To be clear: I have no clue what other outcomes could have stemmed from this event, nor am I advocating for any particular one (especially one where ass-kissing is involved). I'm simply saying that everyone is entitled to their basic rights, including equal protection under the law.
ReptillusMax@reddit
Then would you rather only the illegal mother deported leaving the 2-year-old baby be separated from the mother? If that was the case I know you would cry family separation. Anything Trump does is wrong with you people.
Bloodhound209@reddit
Nice Strawman argument you've got there.
We'd rather they have their due process and let a judge, who's more qualified than the average redditor, make an informed decision.
ReptillusMax@reddit
Mom's illegal, therefore she got lawfully deported with her child. The child could come back to the US when they're old enough. Are you dense?
Bloodhound209@reddit
Nice Ad Hominem argument you've got there.
But nope, still wrong. The Constitution grants everyone the right to due process.
Try again.
ReptillusMax@reddit
Alien Enemies Act gave the president the legal power to do so. Try again.
Bloodhound209@reddit
I'm, honestly, not even trying... but I guess I'll do the Google search for you and share the top result.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/habeas-and-the-alien-enemies-act--challenges-and-opportunities
ReptillusMax@reddit
That's an interpretation of a extremely left-biased media. Not a credible source. Try harder.
Bloodhound209@reddit
Again, I'll do the research for you. Page 3 from the 6-3 CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY Supreme Court ruling:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a931_2c83.pdf
Please, go touch some grass....
Bloodhound209@reddit
More similar stories are starting to come out.
https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/ice-deports-3-u-s-citizen-children-held-incommunicado-prior-to-the-deportation
KrinkyDink2@reddit
Which “US citizen” was sent to El Salvador? All the ones I’ve heard of were illegals who contested their deportation back to the country they are citizens of and were granted a stay or protection order or something.
I would like to look into it further if an actual US citizen was deported.
Chicago1871@reddit
Not yet, but trump is video talking about sending us citizens to el salvador twice.
https://youtube.com/shorts/h6mVTi6V7ns?si=K6-RhLndAB_F7Og0
https://youtube.com/shorts/vXRdhxkPKjg?si=CFZBwGUdJjc3gdBa
KrinkyDink2@reddit
Trump hasn’t kept hardly any of his promises yet, I don’t have any reason to believe he will start now.
Chicago1871@reddit
He promised to deport Venezuelans to El Salvador.
Guess what? He did that in the most illegal way possible.
He promised tariffs.
We got tariffs.
KrinkyDink2@reddit
He promised no new gun control: we got that Promised by America first: we got Israel first Promised a wall: no wall Promised Mexico would pay for it: they didn’t Promised mass deportations: fewer deportations per month than Biden or Obama Promised no taxes in overtime and tips: didn’t happen.
I’m not impressed
Chicago1871@reddit
He promised tax cuts.
He got them.
He promised he would pardon people guilty of treason and sedition on january 6th, he did it.
He’s actually done a lot of things he promised, if you dont think so. Youre not paying close attention.
TrollingForFunsies@reddit
For himself, mostly.
Dr_Salacious_B_Crumb@reddit
Don’t forget tariffs. He’d been saying they were the play for months before enacting them. And here we are, losing our country’s place as a global hegemon because our country elected a retiree with a double digit IQ
threeLetterMeyhem@reddit
Why do Trump supporters keep trying to convince me he doesn't plan to do the things he tells me he plans to do?
HomelessRodeo@reddit
No US citizens have been sent to El Salvador.
PacoBedejo@reddit
I'm in Indiana. According to the government words, if they enter illegally, tally ho! lads.
The trick is knowing what the magical words are that decide your fate... and predicting whether 12 people too stupid to avoid jury slavery will agree with your interpretation of the incantations.
KrinkyDink2@reddit
Too stupid to avoid jury slavery 😂. I was just talking about that the other day. Anyone with a job or anything going on in their life with 2 brain cells to rub together gets out of that leaving just the glue eaters to desire your fate.
Ornery_Secretary_850@reddit
I've only been called upon three times.
The first time was for county court. Didn't get selected. But it was interesting. Another guy from work was also there, we were playing cribbage. He noticed that another guy at the table was taking upskirt pictures of a pregnant woman at our table. He went and informed the bailiffs. They moved into a position they could see what was going on. Sure enough, this creep was taking pictures.
Three very large and unhappy bailiffs surround this guy, and put him in cuffs. He's hauled away and they get a warrant for his phone. His phone was FULL of pictures of nasty shit, including kids.
Four months later I'm in front of a Grand Jury explaining what I saw. He ended up taking a plea deal. Instead of 67 possible years he took 30 years.
The second time was for a Federal case that we were warned might take 6-9 months. I was selected for that jury, the day before the trial was to start the Government reached a settlement and we weren't required.
Both these times my job would have continued to pay me.
The third time was after I moved to Texas. I got out of that one because I medically can't serve.
In the same time frame, my wife has been called up 14 times. She's now old enough that Texas quit bothering her, beside the fact she has to take care of me.
thezysus@reddit
Here's the thing... we used to be able to assume that Due Process was functioning and that the justice system would generally follow the intent of the constitution and the interpretation thereof.
The problem is that the system has been so perverted by lawyers and politicians over the last 250 years that you can't even figure out who's right anymore.
"Know the law" is a joke. Even career lawyers don't know the law. That's why they litigate.
If ICE comes to your door, if they bother to knock, you ask for a judicial warrant slid under the door. If they have a valid warrant present to you, then you do need to comply.
If they don't knock, then shoot first, ask questions later. That's on them. The reasonable presumption is an armed invasion and if you live to tell your story a jury may actually side with you. Case law is mixed.
If they don't provide a warrant. You don't open. If they force it, then you can take any reasonable action to prevent death or great bodily harm. Which given the deportation of US citizens to a gulag in a third world country, I would believe you could sell to a jury as justified use of deadly force. Again, if you live to tell your story.
Either way when it gets this bad, you have to ask yourself... is dead that bad an outcome? Is federal prison for killing a few ICE agents any worse than getting deported to El Salvador?
The administration and ICE have created this situation on purpose. Bad information is worse than no information.
KrinkyDink2@reddit
Don’t open the door, don’t consent to a search, ask what them to articulate their probable cause/reasonable suspicion, record and be quiet.
No mater who’s right or wrong, you’re not going to win a gunfight with feds, so unless you’re OK being right but dead it’s a legal battle for later.
Collect what evidence you can on camera before/while it’s happening. Motion to suppress and fruit of the poisonous tree. If you show the search violated 4a then anything found during the search gets tossed.
I’d love to say “2a, heck ya, rise up brother” but realistically that’s not going to happen. Most likely you and anyone around you would be shot. If not no matter who was right or wrong you’re getting charged with capital murder and the DA (butt buddies with the cops) is going to take it all the way. You might be exonerated after years of fighting. Happened before.
PacoBedejo@reddit
I'm confused. Are you trying to talk me into or out of lining my stairwell and the floor around it with AR500?
WizardMelcar@reddit
How do you intend to repel the flash bangs, tear gas grenades, or if those fail - you know they’re just going to blow up your house right?
PacoBedejo@reddit
I already have a Mira Safety CM-8M from dealing with black mold at my old house.
Yeah. There's always that. Their illegal entry and my legal defense of my home against them most likely turns into my death. I really don't understand how anyone supports the evil gang that is the US government and its subsidiaries.
N2Shooter@reddit
https://dmsteel.com/products/hot-rolled-abrasion-resistant-ar500-plate-3-16?variant=25987290503
PacoBedejo@reddit
It's about $1100 for a 4x4 plate of it in 1/4" thickness at Metals Supermarket. I'm guessing I need about 30 plates to make a proper defensive position around my stairwell and the adjacent master bedroom wall/floor.
Sometimes it's expensive to be a prepper and an engineer.
KrinkyDink2@reddit
Depends on what your goal is. If dying in a gunfight with the Feds over what would have probably been a (unconstitutional and unjustified) inconvenience that wouldn’t alter the course of your life, then that sounds like a good way to accomplish it.
If your goal is to be around for your kids afterwards then probably not, but I’m not your mother.
I’m not thrilled about it and it shouldn’t be happening, but dying a meaningless death isn’t a high priority of mine, especially when the odds of bending the feds over a barrel in court is so high.
noahsuperman1@reddit
This is literally what the 2nd and 4th amendments are made for is when the government overreaches like this
irsh_@reddit
And somehow, all the red-hats are quiet.
Double_Minimum@reddit
I think you forgot the 14th, which is pretty critical as without that, you may not be entitled to the other amendments.
It seems to me we have passed the point where things are now tyrannical and clearly unconstitutional (like exporting US citizens with no due process and then doing nothing when ordered to facilitate their return). Allowing the country to essentially have a CEO who has cost the government more money and has certainly not been efficient in its work (unless you look at it as efficient for its ability to violate laws and gather massive amounts of power and data with an aim towards crippling the federal government).
Seems clear the “checks and balances” aspect has failed, and thus the rest of the system has failed.
It just seems a lot of people that defend the 2nd Amendment using the “tyranny” aspect are awfully quiet even while they should be aware of the massive number of unconstitutional acts, lies, and plans for the future (3rd term… although I find it hard to believe Trump will still be alive, despite his medical testing showing him to be healthier than the vast majority of Americans, including those half his age and 2/3rds his weight…)
bmystry@reddit
Take it to court or die, pick on.
EvergreenEnfields@reddit
It appears the new options may be "die in El Salvador or Rwanda" or "die at home, on your feet, rifle in hand".
TrollingForFunsies@reddit
There's no fucking way I'm ending up in a gang camp in El Salvador so I know what option I'm taking.
1Shadowgato@reddit
A good death it’s is own reward they say. And boy I like being at home.
Chicago1871@reddit
Theres a famous saying from men who overthrew a corrupt dictator 100 years ago.
“Better to die on your feet, than live the rest of your days on your knees”
daeather@reddit
🤝
Pox_Americana@reddit
Solution? The old ATF-bait. A German Shepherd taxidermy filled with tannerite and nails.
MGB1013@reddit
One step ahead of you. I have been feeding my 4 year old German shepherd tiny bits of tannerite and finishing nails since he was a puppy.
TrollingForFunsies@reddit
Got the Rottweilers by the door. And I feed em gunpowder. So they can devour, the criminals.
sevvvyy@reddit
I just feed my dog Coke & mentos
AllMikesNoAlphas@reddit
I prefer a roomba and a claymore
Uncle___Screwtape@reddit
I prefer sprinklers on the front lawn filled with gasoline, and a dragon's breath round in the shotgun to get the party started
UserRemoved@reddit
We don’t have to declare anything. Tyrants can FAFO.
HomelessRodeo@reddit
Comply. Sue.
Gun budget. 📈
PrometheanEngineer@reddit
How are you going to sue from an El Salvado prison? Honest question here
HomelessRodeo@reddit
I’m a citizen, I can’t be deported.
IRushPeople@reddit
How are you going to prove you're a citizen to un-uniformed, warrantless, badgeless agents?
You'll never sit in front of a judge, you'll have no jury, and you won't be given time to provide documents.
Due process is being broken. Besides being white, how do you prove you're not an illegal immigrant under these conditions?
HomelessRodeo@reddit
I have a Real ID.
IRushPeople@reddit
Great. Me too. Who are you going to show it to?
The whole point is that without due process, you don't get a chance to defend yourself
HomelessRodeo@reddit
Due process is happening despite what Reddit believes.
IRushPeople@reddit
Yes, it is still happening. The cases where it doesn't happen are worth being outraged about.
If anyone doesn't have due process, then we're in a system that doesn't guarantee due process to its citizens.
Nobody is saying that due process is completely abolished and we're shutting down the courts. They're saying that everyone involved in violating due process should be reprimanded so it doesn't happen again
HomelessRodeo@reddit
Outside for Garcia, where they admitted their fuck up, has it happened?
IRushPeople@reddit
Do you seriously think that was the only fuckin guy?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforced_disappearance
According to Human Rights Watch, the March 2025 American deportations of Venezuelans to the maximum-security Terrorism Confinement Center prison in El Salvador were enforced disappearances.[197][198]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2025_American_deportations_of_Venezuelans
In March 2025, the United States deported 137 Venezuelans to El Salvador, to be immediately and indefinitely imprisoned without trial[1] and without prison sentences nor release dates
HomelessRodeo@reddit
They weren’t illegally deported. Try again.
Dr_Salacious_B_Crumb@reddit
Then why did the Supreme Court rule 7-2 halting further renditions of Venezuelans to El Salvador?
HomelessRodeo@reddit
They didn’t. He can continue so long as due process is followed. Maybe read the entire opinion.
Dr_Salacious_B_Crumb@reddit
They stopped sending this last batch because of the 7-2 ruling. The Supreme Court was saying they weren’t being given their due process and could not be sent.
How many hundreds of those before them weren’t afforded this Constitutional right?
HomelessRodeo@reddit
The only reason no one has been sent recently because they’re having to give notice. They will still be deported using the Act.
Don’t know, it wasn’t required until SCOTUS mandated it.
Dr_Salacious_B_Crumb@reddit
There’s multiple videos of Trump saying he wants to rendition “homegrown criminals” to El Salvador. You don’t find that concerning?
Probably not, because it’s your guy in charge trampling rights.
HomelessRodeo@reddit
Trump has always talked shit. This isn’t new. He has said he has wanted to do a lot of things.
He can’t. The judiciary has been and will continue to be a check.
Waflstmpr@reddit
Oops, accidentally deported you anyway.
Dont worry, just tell one of the gentle armed Salvadorian guards youre there by mistake, you that you need to call the US Embassy. Im sure they'll get right on it.
HomelessRodeo@reddit
What a fantasy you live in.
PrometheanEngineer@reddit
Yeah that hasnt stopped anyone.
Also - prove it in s court of law.
Oh wait, there aren't any trials. They can just say you're not.
HomelessRodeo@reddit
That’s not how it works but okay.
PrometheanEngineer@reddit
LMAO, so you trust the government?
That's fucking hilarious
HomelessRodeo@reddit
Intake some news other than Reddit.
PrometheanEngineer@reddit
You're a literal joke.
Trusting the government when it's convenient for your argument.
Ignoring facts.
Ignoring the constitution.
HomelessRodeo@reddit
Hilarious. The constitution is why I can’t be deported.
Waflstmpr@reddit
The Constitution only helps you, when people abide by it.
CosmicBoat@reddit
Don't bother suing. You'll never win unless the Supreme Court curbs the protection that government agents get, doubtful though.
JustSomeGuyMedia@reddit
The headline is pretty misleading, but this is Reddit so I’m not surprised none of the people on the linked post seem to have bothered to do any research.
Drtysouth205@reddit
Post the correct information then…
JustSomeGuyMedia@reddit
It’s in the memo within the article.
LiberalLamps@reddit
If they’ve clearly identified themselves and you shoot them you’ll spend the rest of your life in prison if you even live that long against trigger happy feds.
If they haven’t identified themselves and I think it’s a home invasion they can enjoy getting shot at with M855A1.
Hardening entry points so they can’t break down your door with one hit from a ram is super important in my opinion because it gives you time to assess the situation before acting.
Lastly, this is “policy” change is some serious bullshit. But my understanding is that is it not actually a new power. The Patriot Act gave CBP jurisdiction within 100 miles of any border including international airports which covers like 95% of the populated parts of the US. The law is probably unconstitutional but I don’t know if anyone has ever challenged it.
wtfredditacct@reddit
No warrant means no warrant. They'd have to articulate an exigent circumstance that doesn't exist. I wouldn't want to be the one to test the constitutionally of it, though
Milksmither@reddit
No, they don't have to articulate anything to you. Have you not been paying attention?
They can just throw you in a van and send you to El Salvador without any due process.
Mountain_Man_88@reddit
20 years per agent/officer if you use a deadly weapon and case law says that it doesn't matter if you knew they were a fed at the time. Even a fed in an undercover capacity posing as a gang member gets shot at by a rival gang member that rival gang member would be facing 20 years.
Better idea to fight stuff in court, even better idea than that is to not harbor people on the terrorist watch list.
rhusta_bymes@reddit
20 years per agent still beats getting unjustly deported to an el Salvadorian death camp
Hour_Reindeer834@reddit
“If you’re fucked either way might as well go out busting” - Hugh Hefner probably?
Waflstmpr@reddit
Honestly, id rather the 2 rounds to the back of the head, after my last stand, to a one way trip to CECOT Resort and Wellness center.
smokeyser@reddit
Problem with that is that some administrations would gladly label most of us terrorists.
lanekrieger94@reddit
Swap terrorist with " enemy of the state" and you get why my wife family got really small in the 30s-40s
PrometheanEngineer@reddit
Good luck fighting it in court when you've been deported to El Salvador as a US citizen with no trial
smokeyser@reddit
Good luck fighting it in court if you're a US citizen sitting in prison before trial because you're not rich enough to make bail. If the feds come knocking, you're pretty much fucked.
PrometheanEngineer@reddit
I'm amazed more home invaders don't just pretend to be federal agents honestly.
BarryHalls@reddit
It's gaining popularity, actually. You can find videos, even wearing vests that say Police.
smokeyser@reddit
Wow, that's actually a really good point. If they shout that they're the police or FBI before coming in, most people aren't going to have guns in hand as they come through the door.
Mountain_Man_88@reddit
Fair point, looking at Canada here too. I guess I could have specified people that are deservedly on the terrorist watch list or something like that. My ancestors would have been put on the terrorist watch list by the British Crown if they had had one.
Kthirtyone@reddit
LPT: There's basically no additional punishment after the first 2-3
FunTXCPA@reddit
Hey, they gotta find the bodies first. No body, no murder.
Mountain_Man_88@reddit
That's just for assaulting, resisting or impeding either with a deadly weapon or causing injury without a deadly weapon. If you actually kill a fed you'll get the death penalty if you survive the encounter.
Stewart_Duck@reddit
Parts of the Patriot Act were fought in court after Obama expanded Stellar Wind (NSA side of the act) to pretty much encompass, and collect the cell & social media data of every one in the country, without warrant. Klayman v. Obama. Initially ruled unconstitutional, then overturned, then died in appeals.
Put_It_All_On_Eclk@reddit
Unfortunately, they can yell "police search warrant" at the same second they ram the door. They don't need to be able to hear it, it doesn't have to be separate from the banging. People reacting naturally are fucked.
The fortified door serves to give the occupant actual notice.
PrestigiousOne8281@reddit
I’ll bite the bait. Castle doctrine is something that wouldn’t stand in court in the case of federal agents. You go shooting at them and you’re going to have much bigger problems than just a 4A violation. However, the simplest way to avoid this is to not harbor illegal aliens, then they have no reason to bother you, pretty simple. For this particular scenario to happen, you’d have to already be on their radar like the Wisconsin judge was.
threeLetterMeyhem@reddit
I don't, but what if they search my house without warrant anyway?
Warrants are intended to stop the government from just blanket searching everyone until they find some crimes. Without warrants, do you really law enforcement to make correct decisions 100% of the time? Checks and balances are a fundamental part of our governing system and it's fundamentally unamerican to willfully give them up.
The American revolution was right over this type of government overreach. If we're ok going backwards on basic rights and concepts like search warrants, we probability should have just stayed with England.
LtDrinksAlot@reddit
Do you happen to own any braced handguns? forced reset triggers? 3D printer? A lathe?
CyberMattSecure@reddit
Sooooo…… there’s zero chance ICE gets an arrest wrong and deports the wrong person. Let’s say. A US citizen?
ICE doesn’t make mistakes?
They didn’t send deportation letters to judges and lawyers?
They didn’t deport multiple legal US citizens already?
I’m imagining all the news about all this?
gayassfirework@reddit
The irony when most of this community voted for this... because... Wait for it.... My rights....
momalle1@reddit
I'm just waiting for all the 2A fans to rise up against our tyrannical government. Yep, I said, fuck you if you're offended.
NaziHuntingInc@reddit
Inert artillery shell + old cellphone + random wires = forcing them into a standoff
1oldmanva@reddit
In Va, Conservation Officers can come in your home without one. I've never heard of one doing it but it legally allowed.
Broseidon_62@reddit
Reinforced entries to the home, which is easy to accomplish DIY-style, and a few cameras with alert/notification functionality will go a long way in helping you to ID the issue and decide what to do next.
MarryYouInMinecraft@reddit
If no migrants in the house, sue.
If migrants in the house, catch a 5.56 round to the head, or at least a one way ticket to El Salvador, hopefully.
Mountain_Man_88@reddit
Cops have always been able to enter your home without a warrant under certain circumstances, including hot pursuit of a criminal, for public safety, and to arrest the subject of a warrant known to be in the home (with some caveats). ICE policy is rather restrictive when it comes to warrantless entries for administrative arrests. This new memo makes ICE policy less restrictive when pursuing very specific aliens for administrative arrests. It's still more restrictive than the Constitution and case law allow.
CosmicBoat@reddit
Buy yourself a cannon and bring it inside your home.
Pox_Americana@reddit
It’s a new power for ICE, but certain state agencies have had this power with a strong burden of proof— game wardens, for instance, depending on the state.
That being said “…you come heavy or not at all.”- Junior Soprano