Best IFR cross country single engine for time building.

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No_Reveal_2455@reddit

I see a lot of posts saying a 150, but they do not hold enough fuel for flying very far in any serious IFR weather. You want something to get around or through an area of poor weather. I have a C model Mooney and it would be a good fit. You can get the fuel burn down to 6gph if pull the power way back and don't care about speed. It can also fly for 4 hours at 140+ knots with 1 hour reserve.

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SEKS-Aviator@reddit

Cessna 150 or Piper Cherokee. 👏🏾

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hagrids_a_pineapple@reddit

150 with a GPS for that price. I’m serious.

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Far_Top_7663@reddit

No kidding, I was going to say a Tomahawk. It's more comfortable than the 150, not to mention better looking.

Very reliable engine, abundance of spare parts, and you can get one in excellent condition and with a nice updated panel for well under 50K.

Now, f for IFR nav you want something with AP (and a reliable AP), not sure what you can get from under 75K.

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Hfyvr1@reddit

Looks are subjective but better looking seriously? It has a stick for a nose gear, looking from the front the engine is so canted off to the side it has another entire screw hole in the cowling on the left.

Plus they fly like shit in comparison IMO. About how squirrely the feel taxiing on the ground is about how great they fly in the air.

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Far_Top_7663@reddit

When you compare a parasol strutted high wing with a low wing, T-tail, bubble-style canopy, the screws of the engine cowling are as important as the elbows of your girlfriend.

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Hfyvr1@reddit

At least my Cessna girlfriends butt doesn’t try to fall off and require a NDT butt inspection every so often. The Tomahawks T-tail doesn’t even want to be on there.

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Go_Loud762@reddit

If you think a traumahawk is better looking than a 150, you need to report your mental illness at your next medical.

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Far_Top_7663@reddit

Sorry, I was wrong. The Tomahawk is not better looking than the Cessna. It is MUCH better looking to the Moon and back.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AhzhiRdLhKU/sddefault.jpg

This is a Tomahawk I actually flew (but not during this video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUSIHs71pAc

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Fresh_Advertising_93@reddit (OP)

Definitely not better looking haha. What is AP? How does this plane perform in IMC?

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Far_Top_7663@reddit

AP is autopilot.

It's a small basic 2-seat 110 HP trainer. It doesn't have anti-ice protection except a pitot heat (optional) so don't fly in icing conditions. Other than that, the question is more how do you perform in IMC rather than how the plane performs, especially if you are going to do cross-country without AP so you have to hand-fly in actual IMC for extended periods of time. The plane has no clue about what is the visibility out there and flies the same way in 0-0 conditions than in unrestricted visibility and ceiling.

I have little IMC experience (and nearly all of that little was in simulated IMC, either in a sim or with blinders) but I would not fly this plane (or any plane) in real IMC with the standard 6 pack that came from the factory that included the 3 pitot-static instruments (ASI, alt and VS), 2 vacuum pump gyro instruments (AI and DG) and 1 electric gyro instrument (turn coordinator). For NAV there were options for NAV1 (optional with ILS and O-M-I lights), NAV2 and ADF, as well as DME and of course a transponder.

As I said, I would not fly in real IMC with those because if you loose the vacuum pump and are left with the turn coordinator for a proxy of bank, the wet compass for the heading, and the airspeed indicator and vertical speed for a proxy of pitch, there are non-negligible chances that you are going to die.

But a lot of Tomahawks out there have upgraded panels, you can find some with some with GPS with moving map and solid-state based glass displays that use an air data computer to compute airspeed, altitude and VS from the pitot-static sensors, and an attitude and heading reference system (AHRS) based MEM gyros and a magnetometer for attitude and heading, so you have all flight instruments in 2 glass displays and they also show NAV ingo (including GPS NAV) superimposed on them. And the most important part, you get rid of the vacuum pump gyros and you can replace the turn coordinator for a second solid-state attitude indicator (or at least an electric gyro one).

This makes for a relatively capable IFR panel, except for the autopilot. And of course you can supplement all that with ForeFlight in your iPad.

Now, I know it's not much, but I am not sure what more you can find for under 75 grands.

Here you have an example (I would replace the TC with at least an electric AI)

https://dsgiipnwy1jd8.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJ0YXAtYXNzZXRzMSIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJmaXQiOiJjb250YWluIiwiYmFja2dyb3VuZCI6eyJhbHBoYSI6MSwiciI6MjU1LCJiIjoyNTUsImciOjI1NX19LCJzbWFydE92ZXJsYXkiOnsiYnVja2V0IjoidGFwLWFzc2V0czEiLCJrZXkiOiJ3YXRlcm1hcmsucG5nIn19LCJrZXkiOiIxMzg0NDc4LmpwZyJ9

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Fresh_Advertising_93@reddit (OP)

What about a Cherokee 180 for $70k with 250hrs smoh?

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hagrids_a_pineapple@reddit

Yes unless it’s been sitting for a year. But you’ll spend 2-3x as much on fuel which adds up soooo fast. Do you want cheap or capable?

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Fresh_Advertising_93@reddit (OP)

But with the cessna 150 I cant fly ny cross country hours with an instructor, can I?

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Far_Top_7663@reddit

I don't have the numbers for the 150, but the Tomahawk has a useful load of over 500lb and 6 hours of endurance (no reserve) with full fuel (30 gal =180 pounds). Since you and your instructor wight 380 pounds you cannot put the 180 pounds of fuel, you will have to put 120 which is 2/3. That will still give you 4 hours of endurance so even with 1 hour of reserve you can still do legs of 3 hours or 350 miles. That's not bad. (and I am being conservative, but I am always conservative with fuel management). Especially if you said that you don't care about speed but about time, you can throttle back to econo cruise speed and add another hour or so of endurance. Not sure about the C-150, but the C-152 should be close to those numbers too.

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phliar@reddit

Depends on how much you and your instructor weigh....

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Fresh_Advertising_93@reddit (OP)

380 combined weight.

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phliar@reddit

Ya that would be tricky. (I learned in a 152, back in the day when my instructor and I together weighed 260 lbs.)

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Hfyvr1@reddit

Seriously get a 150 and I’ll tell you why.

The 150/152/172’s share many common parts. When you need something hit up eBay or a salvage yard and bam, you’re airworthy again.

All of these other planes Tomahawk’s for example have certain items that are no longer available. Such as the top cabin door handle, you need to get a 3D printed one at this point. If you’re nose gear hosing cracks you are literally shit out of luck. Piper will not support these, not give out the schematics and will tell you sorry.

With a 150, you can interchange all of these parts. Same shimmy damper on a 150/152/172. Interior items, rheostats. All the shit that will eventually break there are ample replacements.

Anyone saying V-tail Bo, Mooney, Skipper, Sundowner from a mechanics POV you’re screwed if you get those.

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DocDynasty@reddit

There are some Sundowners and Musketeers available in that price range. Underrated as a group (thus under-priced). Roomier than a 172 or Cherokee but a bit slower. Love my Sierra (complex/retract version of the Musketeer). The type club is superb as well (beechaeroclub.com).

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kzr_lover_@reddit

I heard there some issues with parts for Sundowners and Musketeers, because not a lot of them were produced. Correct me if I’m wrong, I am just an archer enjoyer.

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DocDynasty@reddit

Compared to Cherokees and Cessnas yes you’ll have issues finding parts. But they’re solidly built planes without killer ADs (no wing spar issues). They made 4000+ of them among the major models. And most of them have two doors. Once you go two doors, you’ll never go back…

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thatTheSenateGuy@reddit

73-20-07r2 is probably the ugliest of them if you have an early one; can be permanently fixed though if cracks are detected.

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thatTheSenateGuy@reddit

I love mine; slower helps build XC time too.

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tuanortsafern@reddit

Look at light sport. Everyone likes to shit on them, but there are reliable builds out there for around that price. Just be weary of experimental builds. What you want is something made/assembled by a manufacturer. Example: Cessna 162.

I own a Jabiru J250, and it has some issues that plagued the platform in Australia but I did my research into it and have done all the safety bulletins and it’s been a solid cross country plane. 6gph 115 knots true, and a useful load higher than you’d expect from the light sport category. It’s the same engine/frame as the four seater in Australia, just without the two rear seats to meet the Light Sport Certification here in the U.S.

Not to mention entire glass cockpit with Autopilot and ILS capabilities. $70k is what I purchased it for at 350 hours. The airplane is now at 800 hours and it’s performed great.

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Kentness1@reddit

V-Tail?

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mtncfi@reddit

A GPS 150 for going slow and burning less fuel. But dollars for knots and a better resume, an old Mooney.

Yes, insurance will be more for a complex aircraft, and yes each hour might be more expensive, but you can find a C model for $70k or less in decent shape. Assuming you’re building time for a career, retract time is more valuable on a resume to certain entry and mid-level employers and the old J-bar Mooneys are more reliable and cheaper-to-maintain gear systems than anything electronic because they’re fully mechanical. Of course you need to maintain and lubricate like anything else, but you won’t have to worry about pneumatics or electrics or CO2 blowdown or whatever other nonsense in addition. Plus if you’re a cfi you can hand out complex ratings and have something better than just another 150 to offer other time-builders who can help offset the cost.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Hi folks, looking for good IFR cross country plane that will allow me to fly in most occasions bar dangerous (icing , thunderstorms...) weather.

Speed doesn't matter at all, as I'm just trying to build hours.

My budget is $75000

I want a reliable, affordable IFR Cross country plane to build hours.

(Working on my CPL and than my IR once I have the plane then atp.)

Thanks and tail winds to yall.

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