Embarrassed myself on a checkout flight today
Posted by Professional_Read413@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 108 comments
I'm a PPL with a little over 100 hours. I've flown mostly pipers, and I got checked out in a 172M at my club as well. That flight went great. I was worried about the switch and the different sight picture, but all my landings were good.
Today I went to get checked out in another 172P and could not land to save my life. The first landing I hit hard and started porpoising. I immediately went around and everything was fine, but it shook me up. All through training I had never done that once, maybe a small porpoise but nothing like this. I had another bounce on the next one and went around again. The third was softer ,but skipped around a bit, and the last one was just plane hard.
What I noticed that was different about this plane was the controls had a lot more resistance in them. When I would start to round out and feel that "heavy " elevator I'd immediately tense up. Stiff controls seem to always have this effect on me. The other 172 (which is older) has much lighter controls and I can land that well. I feel like I have no finesse in this plane.
The CFI told me nothing I did was unsafe, but I said I would wait and do another flight with him. He seemed ready to sign me off, but said he could tell I wasn't comfortable. He said it was up to me.
I'm going to do another flight with him next week to try and nail this, but I am totally embarrassed as a 100 hour PPL to porpoise landings and keep rounding out so high. It felt like back when I was learning to land as a student.
I had a bad day last week as well, but attributed it to the gusty and variable winds. I really feel like I'm in a funk. A family member who's a pilot said I just need to do some flights alone and build my confidence back.
Feisty_Display937@reddit
Well, it might not be 100% you. Our flying club has two 172N's and a 172R model. They are both 172's right? Outside of the R model being fuel injected, they should fly the same, right? The R model seems to float more and has a lower stall speed. If you are not patient and try to fly it on the runway, porpoising can happen. I had that happen to me trying to force a Mooney M20J on the runway before the wing stopped flying. I porpoised twice and went around.
I am not sure if there is a big difference between the 172M and the P model, but sounds like you might have been a little fast into the round-out and flare in the 172P, hence the porpoising. Heavy feeling controls probably a factor. There are probably enough differences between the two to require an additional lesson. As a CFI, I notice some pilots have difficulty moving from the 172 to a Piper PA28, Warrior or Archer. Different sight picture and the tapered wing on the Piper just handles a little differently into the landing..After you get more experience, you will adapt to these differences much quicker. I recommend getting your Instrument and then Commercial regardless of if you plan on flying professionally . Both will make you a better pilot. Good luck..
Professional_Read413@reddit (OP)
I definitely felt like I had to keep more power in in the 172P, in the M (it does have a stol kit) I could pull power as soon as "runway was made" and work it down smoothly. Same thing with the archer and warrior
In the 172P I'd pull power at the same point and it felt like it just dropped out the sky.
midlifeflyer@reddit
Don't worry about it. You are still at a stage where even small differences have big consequences.
Think back to when you first drove a car different than the one you learned in. Chances are it felt really weird. You weren't even sure what you were doing when you parked it. Now, with years more experience, the biggest deal with a vacation car rental is how to work the radio!
cazzipropri@reddit
Normal. Pipers are easier to land gracefully because of the low wing.
makgross@reddit
They are easier to hide thumpy landings in because they have oleo struts on all three wheels.
Warriors and Archers don’t land the same, so I don’t know how you could possibly generalize that to all Pipers.
cazzipropri@reddit
What you can generalize is high vs. low wing.
Low wing planes get you earlier into ground effect and that gives you more time to correct your mistakes.
makgross@reddit
Not really. Flown at correct speeds, the ground effect is quite similar. Flown at incorrect speeds (usually too fast), you can get either answer depending on which plane you fly wrong.
But you’ll find instructors saying one or the other is better in ground effect. If only you could get them to agree on which one….
cazzipropri@reddit
All factors you mentioned are valid factors, but the claim that the ground effect is similar is just a personal opinion that doesn't match aerodynamics. Distance from the ground affects ground effect substantially.
makgross@reddit
As does wing shape, dihedral, flaps, and various other factors. You claimed you get into it “quicker,” which is a function of glide angle and technique.
There is a hell of a lot of simplification going on, and it is not useful at all.
So, tell me, how close to the ground do you have to be to be “in” ground effect?
Recent-Phrase9784@reddit
To be “in” ground effect the plane’s distance from the ground has to be a distance from the ground or surface that is less than it’s wingspan and it’s noticeably more aggressive in low wings. So while you may not get into it “quicker” you get into it “closer” to the ground. Except you knew that with all the various ratings airports and types you’re boasting about under your avatar name so maybe stop being a snob. The poster above you had the correct idea aerodynamically and you knew what he was trying to articulate but you just didn’t like his level of eloquence. I would expect more patience and heart of a teacher from someone claiming to be a Double I instructor. Glad I’m not your student. Sheesh
makgross@reddit
Thats a rule of thumb, no more. The truth is the “edge” of ground effect is gradual and depends on a number of factors such as flap shape and deployment. And Pipers and Cessnas have the same 36 foot wingspan.
The claim that low wings have more or stronger ground effect is one of those oversimplifications instructors all too frequently perpetuate, without understanding. And more to the point, it makes absolutely no difference to what the student has to do, no better than pointing out most Cessnas are white. The student has to fly the plane at the correct speed regardless of wing position, and this is something measured by test flights and other measurements, not by reasoning with first principles. The two planes involved are intentionally designed to compete with one another, and have been designed to have similar speeds, performance, glide ratios, and landing distances, with more differences between model years than between manufacturers.
And yes, it sets me off when an instructor makes an assertion of “aerodynamics says…” to shut down an objection. Instructors have only the most rudimentary training in aero, and the PHAK has a number of physics errors in it, including its treatment of ground effect (some other big ones are glossing over frames of reference when discussing forces of flight, and a hideously confused chapter on energy management). As a source of info, it’s just enough to be dangerous.
Recent-Phrase9784@reddit
Some 300 hour instructor knows more than aircraft engineers, airplane manufacturers, is an expert witness in differences training and nuances between the two types and knows more than the authors and publishers of multiple aviation publications made for training? Wow how bold. Guess you won’t be an old pilot. Definitely a dangerous claim. If they are so similar and ground effect is virtually identical and has the same profile on each plane why do you take off 20 knots faster almost in a piper than a Cessna? (72 knots takeoff speed vs 55) Why do instructors specifically emphasize the dangers of taking off or landing in ground effect in a piper or other low wing that you can float longer because of ground effect and how dangerous that can be in a short field landing situation and how to be vigilant so you don’t have a runway overrun or land longer than you intend to and because of the placement of the wings in a lower position exacerbating the phenomenon of ground effect? Obviously they teach it in high wings and it’s an important part of the aerodynamic aspect and conversation in training but it’s always emphasized more in a low wing type that is inherently less stable easier to spin and ground effect is more dangerous and prominent. All of this is rhetorical and doesn’t need an answer, we (the actual people flying in the aviation community) already have the answers. By your reasoning it certainly couldn’t have anything to do with ground effect; and someone who’s flown in both types and has actually done a decent amount of takeoffs and landings in both types obviously knows from experience from manipulating the controls and following published procedures in both poh’s and having an instructor who’s worth a damn even primary students know you’re overinflated you’re full of shit and your argument isn’t worth a damn. I would genuinely love to see how many folks in aviation instructors especially and engineers who agree with you and how many agree with me.
makgross@reddit
Note that I haven’t and will not engage in degree dropping. Nor are you speaking for all the people you claim to.
I’ll just say that you’re a bit far off base. Starting with the confusion of rotation and liftoff speeds. Cessna publishes the former, Piper publishes both. And the rotation speed for a Warrior is 50 knots per the checklist, compared to 55 in a 172R.
This is not productive. You are too attached to old myths to listen to actual facts.
Recent-Phrase9784@reddit
Oohh so know you’re going to mansplain my experience in a low wing aircraft to me, please continue this will be fun. I didn’t confuse anything when I flew a piper warrior at Murfreesboro aviation at Murfreesboro airport right next to the authorized Cessna dealer while on vacation in Nashville Tennessee during Covid, Ronald McKenzie was my CFI and we flew for 4 hours that day and it was the best time I ever had in my training and we flew the warrior at 72 knots before rotating. When I did the majority of my training in Texas, it was in Cessna 172s at 52F Roanoke Northwest Regional Airport, with Clark Binley as my CFI we went to Propwash Airfield for short field takeoffs and landings and we went AFW Fort Worth Alliance airport and I flew next to f-18s taking off as I was landing on a parallel runway being very careful and observing caution wake turbulence, wanna guess what our rotation speed was? You guessed it buddy 55. So go ahead continue telling me my experience is false, and I’m confused because I know what I did that summer.
ilikeplanesandF1@reddit
I'll also add that the shock strut sure cushions slammers a whole lot nicer than the Cessna gear does
Heavy_Notice3544@reddit
As far as the elevator heaviness goes… trim is your friend. I have little time in 172s, but hundreds of hours in archers. Current company flies Aztecs and they have a VERY noticeably heavy yoke during flare if you don’t trim properly. Similar heaviness you mention, but with a 5000lb twin.
Another thing I was told during my PPL training… “Are you flying the plane or is the plane flying you?” You are the pilot. Make the plane do exactly what you want.
Gloomy-Act-915@reddit
When you have two people that have been friends for 25 years and still manage to bust each other's balls for shitty landing, you know not every landing is perfect for anyone
BabiesatemydingoNSW@reddit
I did my private pilot training in Pipers as well, and after getting my license I got checked out in the 172 at my flight school. I had the same issue initially landing the 172. The reason is the 172 has spring steel gear and doesn't have the same damping as the struts on the Piper. You have to be more careful with your descent rate and not 3-point the landing otherwise you'll bounce. It just takes practice and a little experience and you're good.
PhillyPilot@reddit
1600 hours and bounced the landing in my students brand new 182. Shit happens
fromcalisd@reddit
There's absolutely nothing to be ashamed about. Every aircraft type is different, and it's not uncommon to struggle with a different airplane type. In a way, it is like you're just learning to fly. Just a different aircraft.
dieseltaco@reddit
Jerk it harder
acesup1090@reddit
You have 100 hours. I was still doing endless slam and go's pre ppl at 100 hours. Keep getting experience and learning and all this will start to feel much more natural to you. It's always a little bit of a challenge going from plane to plane because no two are exactly alike so when you rent instead of own you don't know all the ins and outs of each plane you fly. Don't stress it and don't forget to have fun!
Sea_Procedure_6293@reddit
Every low time PPL on planet earth has done something to embarrass themselves in a checkout flight.
Weaponized_Puddle@reddit
Not to mention the stories on this sub about 20,000 hour captains who decide to take a crack at GA after 25 years
Prestigious_Try5135@reddit
The worst rental checkout I ever did was with a retired T38 instructor and Southwest captain with 21,000 hours
kiwi_love777@reddit
Yep UPS 74 driver was my worst checkout. Was doing 120 on final… in a 172.
Drunkenaviator@reddit
Been there. And the was probably thinking "fuck we're about to fall out of the sky". Then that eye-to-wheel height adjustment is brutal. Lol
kiwi_love777@reddit
I’m sure I’d be the same way if I wanted to go in for a checkout- esp the flaring-too-high part…
Final in my bird now is somewhere between 135-150…. 80 must feel glacial.
RobThree03@reddit
Man, I flared too high switching from the 777 to the 737.
I’d probably be terrified to get back in a 172.
fireblade16@reddit
Short Final in my Zenith is 50.... MPH🤣 if there's a headwind you're almost landing like a helicopter. I had a 172 instructor fly with me that was pretty nervous with how slow we were going. Stall is ~29.
BraboBaggins@reddit
I real life LOL’d at this one 😂🤣😂🤣
jwpc59@reddit
I don’t think my old 172 will even do 120 😂
kiwi_love777@reddit
Full throttle with the nose pitched over….
What was interesting was he did our solo checkout quiz just fine… and even wrote “80” on VAPP
That and he flared at about 50ft and we somehow porpoised mid air. 🤣
When I showed him 80 he kept saying “that’s too slow”
And when I showed him when to flare he kept saying “flare flare flare!!!” grabbing onto the handle- very dramatic.
But once he got the sight picture down and the speeds in check he was golden.
I’d probably end up doing similar things now if I wanted to go get checked out!
bfishin2day@reddit
It's like playing fast pitch baseball ....then trying to play slow pitch softball . Timing is OFF!
StPauliBoi@reddit
this is hilarious
bfishin2day@reddit
He's 30 knots too slow! Lol....punch it! 🤪
saml01@reddit
Tell the story.
eSUP80@reddit
At my FBO we have a 172 just for airline pilots who want to fly GA again. Cause it usually goes just like that
Ashea123@reddit
Yeah, my first checkout flight after I got my PPL I was so rough, went to take a DA40 Id flown after flying Cessnas all year and wow it was like I didn’t know how to fly anymore
AnotherSky1@reddit
I had repeated the taxi way wrong for 2 times and atc had to correct me twice before I got my third time correct even though my brain wasn’t processing the right taxi way…. the examiner had his hands reaching to the mic ready to fail me during the third time. It was literally the end of the check ride when we taxing back to parking lol
bfishin2day@reddit
Get a SIM for ur PC....practice..u got this. My brain sometimes goes goofy ..but as long as we strive for perfection while maintaining a margin of safety ...u got this dude
HateJobLoveManU@reddit
I misspoke the transponder code twice on my XC solo. It was something like 0243 and I was going "2043" and "0234" and ATC was getting kinda annoyed, deservedly. Shit happens!
Benny303@reddit
Was getting re familiarized with our clubs C170 and while doing the run up instead of pulling the carb heat I pulled the mixture and fully killed the engine. I was absolutely mortified thinking "oh my God, if I did this in the air, I could have killed us" and my instructor said something along the lines of "well that wasn't the right one, was it?" And was very nonchalant about it. I started the plane back up and we continued on. Needless to say I'm always extra careful with carb heat now.
Imtherealwaffle@reddit
I know they arent exactly the same but I wonder why more planes dont have the mixture and carb heat knobs be a very distinct shape from the throttle like a small handle or something. That way it would immediately feel off if you werent looking.
Bunslow@reddit
i embarrassed myself on my checkride flight, not fun
Lumpy-Salamander-519@reddit
Ur at 100 hours don’t stress, it’s gonna happen again at 200 and 20000. It’s just like that sometimes😂
Professional_Read413@reddit (OP)
Yeah the cfi told me, that definitely ain't gonna be your last one so just don't worry about it
Lumpy-Salamander-519@reddit
Oh ya, back when I was getting a stage check for my comm ride I failed twice cause I just could not figure it out for some reason idk what was happening but then the next day and ever since ripping a million power off 180s it’s been butter
I would recommend practicing power off 180s with a CFI, I feel like it helps a lot to really understand ground effect and land from strange angles/approaches
Bob06@reddit
I went to CE500 type with a retired airline pilot and our pre checkride sim session was a complete cluster fuck from the get go. He couldn’t hold altitude or bank angle during steep turns. He also blew through his heading by 30 degrees cause he was so caught up fighting to get stable. It was just down hill from there. He was embarrassed and upset after the session.
He killed it during the checkride two days later. Everyone has bad days. Get back in there!
ResearchFlat8610@reddit
The fact that you had the good sense to go around and not force a bad landing says a lot to me. Whether you’re comfortable in the plane yet or not, you’ve got a good foundation as far as ADM goes
diegom07@reddit
500 hours in the 737 and still embarrass myself when flying GA
Flying_4fun@reddit
I did all of my training on 3-4 different 172s, and each aircraft had controls that felt different enough to impact my landings. The difference was significant enough that I had to adjust every time, and the adjustment was material enough that it felt like it delayed my progress. In retrospect, while it delayed my solo milestone, it did teach me how to adjust for the different controls feel and different range of elevator yoke extension. Now, I do several touch&goes with aircraft I have not flown before to get used to the control feel especially at the round out and flair stage. My first couple of landings are always less than ideal, and some involve go arounds, but it's part of learning how to handle the aircraft. I'm at just over 100hrs and also did transition training to 150/152, which further exposed me to different controls and airplane handling. You haven't done anything wrong and it's all part of the learning process. Remember a PPL is simply a license to continue learning.
DillonviIIon@reddit
It's fine. I shot my gun today without being cleared hot... everyone makes mistakes lol
EntroperZero@reddit
I've found that the later model 172s are very heavy in the controls compared to a Piper or an earlier 172. You can't fly it reactively, you have to think a little bit further ahead in terms of doing the roundout and flare, try to anticipate when the speed will bleed off and smoothly pull back.
You did well in recognizing the porpoise and going around, so don't sweat it.
unsuspicious_raven@reddit
I've flown a couple different 172s, the P does seem to have much stiffer controls in my small amount of experience
ParagPa@reddit
Well over 20 years ago, I was a low time PPL on a checkout flight at MKE, and we were returning to the airport, I was cleared straight in to 01R. I promptly lined up on 01L, and didn't notice until too late, a jet (a CJ, I think - not a large commercial airliner) had to go around, and the flight school got an earful afterwards. I remember the CFI telling me it wasn't a big deal - and it was also on him (which now I realize was true). We all do dumb things. You'll get the hang of it.
Informal_Bobcat7794@reddit
Yeah I have that same issue with stuff controls. In my personal plane was doing exactly what you describe. I would hold pressure on the yoke and it wouldn’t be enough to I’d pull back a little harder and suddenly these stiff controls would give and I’d balloon and from there everything was difficult to get back in control for the same reasons and because now you’re fixating on what’s going wrong and now you’re losing sight picture and it all just goes to he’ll. Always safe but not smooth. At all. I lubed the controls and I immediately started landing perfectly. It’s always something minor that can cause everything to fall apart.
DramaticCattleDog@reddit
I also have a PPL with around 120 hours. My last checkout flight, I had to double check 121.5 to make sure I didn't set off the ELT on my landing. I still rate that landing as one of my worst, and the kicker is that the winds were calm.
One-Blacksmith6918@reddit
I hate calm winds, those are always my worst landings.
ashtranscends@reddit
Same here and I cannot wrap my head around it. Gusty direct crosswinds, love them. Calm wind days are when I tend to embarrass myself
937OYE@reddit
Calm winds are never really calm, they’re just not sustained. Hard to correct for random gusts even if they’re low velocity.
kevinw1526@reddit
Hell, all of my worst landings I can think of were on calm days
Professional_Read413@reddit (OP)
Cfi kept saying I was being hard on myself , but that bounced landing felt really bad
Bunslow@reddit
if you didn't break the plane it wasn't that bad a landing
(my plane is currently broken because someone did an actually-bad landing that broke it)
Proof_Ordinary8756@reddit
It doesn’t have to be good, it has to be safe. You just need to go get some reps by yourself. Some variants of the 172 are more nose heavy than others.
DramaticCattleDog@reddit
I feel that, but I also agree with the CFI. As pilots we will always have good and bad days landing, especially when we are in an airplane for the first time. I've never flown a 172 that flew exactly like the one before it.
Bitter-Ad-9972@reddit
I have flown pipers my whole time training up to 250 hours I recently got a job flying a C-182 same thing bounce her in, land flat, and the controls felt real heavy. The thing I figured out is you need to just keep pitching up (SLOWLY) on your round out pipers have a lot more flexibility when you land. I use trim and hold my nose down so my flair is easier and unfortunately when you round out the sight picture is much much worse I pretty much loose the runway and use my peripherals. Hope this helps
grumpycfi@reddit
Are you dead? Then it can't be that bad. At least when you fuck a landing you've got one witness instead of 200.
snickyboi19@reddit
It’s all good bro. I felt this same way when I went from flying cherokees to flying a C-182. After a couple hours in it everything smoothed out. You’ve got 100 hours, not 1,000 or even 10,000. Don’t expect yourself to be Chuck Yeager. You’ll get it next time
Ok_Pair7351@reddit
I had the same exact issue going from a 172F to a 172N. I could land perfectly in the F every time, but the N would bounce, porpoise, slam it down, etc. I finally figured it out, but it took a lot of repetition with an instructor. Same observation about the controls feeling "heavier."
AjaxBU@reddit
If it makes you feel any better, I’m a widebody captain and I’d embarrass myself too if I went up in a 172.
Purple_Profit_649@reddit
I flew 2 days ago and started flaring at 30 feet. Which was too high. Because in our airplanes if you don’t arrest the descent at 30 feet you’re gonna slam it into the ground.
arnoldinio@reddit
I haven’t touched anything but the jet in a year, I can’t imagine getting in a 172 solo right now I’d be sweating bullets.
bfishin2day@reddit
SLOW MOTION! LOL
bfishin2day@reddit
Agree. Just write it off and get back in the air... Eyes down the runway and just hold her a foot off the runway....u know this..you got this. I have 1000+ hours and have bad days too. I'm safe but I don't always grease em...
ScathedRuins@reddit
PPL here with about 120 hours as well. I took a checkout flight in Canada in my hometown after finally getting the TC foreign validation of my FAA cert, it was probably the most embarassing flight of my life. I didn't have a single good landing out of maybe 10 and if it had been a real engine out I would've ended up in a building (mind you this was Southern ON, fields everywhere). I obviously didn't pass and it was a bit of a hit to my confidence because it's not like I hadn't flown in a few weeks or anything like that, but maybe being closer to home or in a country other than where I had trained put extra pressure on me? Really not sure, all's to say, don't worry about it too much, PPL is a licence to learn for a reason.
heavendevil_@reddit
I had a check flight a couple of months ago. Got to the run up area for power checks, select carb heat. No RPM drop. Conditions made icing possible and the CFI mentioned it was maybe icing straight away. Selected it a couple more times, once by me and once by the CFI. The lever felt pretty stiff, no RPM drop at all. Then he informed ATC that we were heading back to investigate a fault.
Got back to the flying club, shut down, fully investigated the issue, couldn’t really find a cause. Started back up, checked carb heat and worked fine. Weird. Except it wasn’t, because as soon as it worked, I realised it felt different. Then I realised what we had been pulling previously was the cabin heat, which doesn’t work and is extremely stiff.
Human factors. I didn’t clock it, neither did the CFI who had thousands of hours and is ex-military. He even pulled the wrong lever just because I had.
Facelessroids@reddit
There’s nothing embarrassing there at all!
Large_Whereas9678@reddit
I embarrass myself on a bi monthly basis inside and outside of the aircraft, you’ll be fine your ADM’s in the right space clearly and that’s all that really matters.
Katana_DV20@reddit
(1.) Do not fly when you're under stress at home or work. Cancel the flight. Alternatively when you call to cancel tell the CFI you'd rather do just a ground session.
(2.) You're being way too hard on yourself. When I saw your post title I thought you had taxied into a parked 787 or something because you were eon your phone. Instead it's just some bouncy landings - easily fixed. The stiff controls are something you will learn to master.
Just take it easy. E sure you don't have a death grip on the controls. Listen to what plane is telling you. Learn the sight picture for flare.
You'll be fine. I learnt to fly in a Katana and would do carrier landings for the first 10 hours before it all clicked.
According-Water7334@reddit
Nice
StarvingPilot9@reddit
I like your ADM. your instructor seemed okay to sign you off which shows you made wise decisions and didn’t do anything unsafe. But I like that you are opting to do another flight because YOU don’t feel safe. Lots of people would take the sign off and run. Flying is challenging. There are all kinds of things to set you back and make you feel like shit. But it’s how you handle them, and recover from them, that is important. And I think you’ve got that figured out. Brush it off, and keep trucking! You’re awesome!
kevinw1526@reddit
Exactly what I was thinking, I’m sure the CFI loved to hear that honestly
ChubbyPandaBelly@reddit
One thing I’ve learned is ego will put unnecessary negative thoughts in your head. You have 100 hours; your goal is to be safe, not perfect. As a CFI, I can tell you we all have bad days and bad landings.
Yep, flight controls on 1 model for 2 planes can feel different depending on how much tension the mechs decide to adjust it with and no biggie if you need a little more time to develop the feel.
Good idea to end on a positive note w another flight, there’s no shame in that as a confidence builder. Make sure to keep a few thoughts fresh in your mind (in no particular order): 1. Land on the first third 2. Don’t stall 3. Be ready for a go around ;) 4. ABC if your engine gives up
Keep learning, you’re going great.
Ok_Talk_2397@reddit
Had the same issue with the S model, now I land soft in every trike I fly. The taildraggers on the other hand are still challenge to me even in calm winds …
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
And you’ll feel this way on every new type of plane for a while and then you’ll be a hotshot multi turbine pilot and decide to learn to fly a cub and get humbled again. Everything is a brand new discipline.
lamesara@reddit
Instructor here. 90% of the time, when students flare too high, it’s because they forget about flying to their “aim point” (where you want to start your flare). Instead they just sort of round out wherever. Sometimes the “instinct” works out, but a lot of the time not.
ALSO the M model is a butter machine. The yolk sits higher up than other models. My school has N, M and S models, and some with fancy avionics and newer bigger engines. I’m not sure why exactly, but my worst slammer students will grease the M models compared to the others.
A good landing is not always about a smooth touchdown. It starts with a good approach and willingness to overshoot :)
Frosty-Brain-2199@reddit
In my experience M models will float forever compared to earlier models
Professional_Read413@reddit (OP)
He said approaches were great, it was just right in the flare he'd see me tense up. I could feel myself doing it. Driving me nuts
lamesara@reddit
My prescription is solo landings for confidence!
Also, play around with how you like to land. For some, approaching with full flap and 65 kt works out to be quite soft.
Don’t stress the touchdown. Chill tf out. Focus on the centreline and “the runway is lava” until you’re on the ground. Be patient with contacting the ground. Sloooooooowly continue pulling back and back and back. Stop if you’re ballooning. Keep pulling back. When you notice the airplane sink, keep going, until touchdown.
Although I’m not in the airplane with you to tell you what’s goin on. Don’t stress it though.
dbltreecookieslayer@reddit
I always like to have just a touch more up trim on final than most. Keeps the yoke light, but as a CFI the one golden rule for landings is the yoke should never ever go forward, ever. If you bounce, either jam the throttle to go around , or slightly release some pressure in the yoke, but keep most of the back pressure in to let the plane settle back down.
Professional_Read413@reddit (OP)
I was putting in a good amount of aft trim to help keep her at 65 knots. The best one I had he told me to try coming in at 70 instead. I think part of my issue was pulling the power out too early.
dbltreecookieslayer@reddit
I mean it depends - yes you can come in at 70 which will give more control at the cost of floating halfway down the runway. If you have the runway and you prefer that speed go for it
rbuckfly@reddit
Less flap during those gusty winds, it’ll increase your control. You practice no flap landings? If not, do that for practice.
makgross@reddit
No 172 runs out of authority at full flap, until the crosswind gets well above max demonstrated, and then it’s rudder, not elevator, that runs out first. The same is true of most 182s, except a couple of old models can run out of elevator with far forward CG (not anything newer than around 1980, though).
AndYouMayCallMe_V@reddit
I switch daily between a DA40 and a tail wheel experimental (~110 hours) I'm still having to remind myself I don't need to hold back stick on the diamond during takeoffs and landings. And that I need to have a nose horizontal/low attitude (relatively) when doing wheel landings. My Piel Super Diamante was down for a few months with electrical issues, and the first landing after getting it back was........ Special.
SonexBuilder@reddit
Not much to add to all the great advice here, other than make sure you trim it for landing. Every 172 seems to need a little different amount of trim.
wt1j@reddit
You’re going to spend the rest of your life trying to get better at landings. We all are.
moxiedoggie@reddit
A cherokee I fly at one point was super light on the controls and i loved it, i could land it perfectly every time. Then it went into annual and the rigging was way too loose, per the A&P, and he tightened it all up. Now i'm like 50% on landings that I feel good in that plane. I trained in a 172 and am always more comfortable landing those planes, but the low wings i am still getting used to. I'm at about 270 hours now about half of that in low wing and half in 172s. Since I go back and forth between the planes so frequently, the only thing I make sure to be 100% certain on is final approach speed, they are slightly different in each plane, and the 172 approach is good at 65 knots, but in the cherokee final at 70 always does it. Try out different airspeeds and see if you find one that gives you the landing you like. But remember, you'll fuck em up from time to time. as long as the plane is in fine shape, it really wasn't that bad.
RevolutionaryWear952@reddit
I had 300 hours as a CFI, 98% piper and did an indoc flight with the flight school owner in a 172 at my first job and absolutely cratered my first landing. Still surprised they haven’t had to re-survey the TDZE. My pride still hurts from it. Probably won’t be your last ha.
Brilliant_Trifle5301@reddit
also make sure you flare at the right time.
mountainbrew46@reddit
Par for the course. Your PPL is a license to learn, not an expectation to do everything perfectly. You’re not above instruction. Nobody is.
DramaticCattleDog@reddit
Absolutely. My instructor used to tell me that we're ALL student pilots, regardless of ratings and certificates
Brilliant_Trifle5301@reddit
Pipers and Cessnas fly differently. Actually all airplanes fly a little differently. Remember (usually) approach speed in most Cessna 172a final approach speed is 65 knots Piper’s are usuall 63-65 knots. If you stay at this airspeed (+ any gust factor) you should nail your landings every time.
MicroACG@reddit
May be a painful experience but you've probably learned more from this than you have from most of your other training, so this is a blessing in disguise.
noghri87@reddit
As others have said, that’s all totally normal.
More practically, starting with the 172N, the nose started to be quite a bit heavier than the older models. It’s not uncommon for it to take a little bit of practice to get it down.
There is a local club who has a 172M and a 172N and they have had to repair the nose gear multiple times because their pilots forget and smash the nose wheel down.
phliar@reddit
Stop being embarrassed. (Hell I have over 500 hours in my airplane and still have garbage landings.) Just fly more, your arm will soon be calibrated to that airplane. With a little more experience you'll see that each airplane requires a different amount of force and you will adjust without even being aware of it.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I'm a PPL with a little over 100 hours. I've flown mostly pipers, and I got checked out in a 172M at my club as well. That flight went great. I was worried about the switch and the different sight picture, but all my landings were good.
Today I went to get checked out in another 172P and could not land to save my life. The first landing I hit hard and started porpoising. I immediately went around and everything was fine, but it shook me up. All through training I had never done that once, maybe a small porpoise but nothing like this. I had another bounce on the next one and went around again. The third was softer ,but skipped around a bit, and the last one was just plane hard.
What I noticed that was different about this plane was the controls had a lot more resistance in them. When I would start to round out and feel that "heavy " elevator I'd immediately tense up. Stiff controls seem to always have this effect on me. The other 172 (which is older) has much lighter controls and I can land that well. I feel like I have no finesse in this plane.
The CFI told me nothing I did was unsafe, but I said I would wait and do another flight with him. He seemed ready to sign me off, but said he could tell I wasn't comfortable. He said it was up to me.
I'm going to do another flight with him next week to try and nail this, but I am totally embarrassed as a 100 hour PPL to porpoise landings and keep rounding out so high. It felt like back when I was learning to land as a student.
I had a bad day last week as well, but attributed it to the gusty and variable winds. I really feel like I'm in a funk. A family member who's a pilot said I just need to do some flights alone and build my confidence back.
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