3 failures in checkride.

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LibrarianUsed4126@reddit

I just wrote an article and video about this topic. I am going to fight for you that these check ride failures at such an early stage of your training do not harm you. You can download the article for free at AviatorsMarket.com. Just search Riter, and download under documents. Title is FAA Check Rides- Snake Eyes- You Lose. And yes, if we do not fix this your career is pretty much finished. I do not believe it to be fair at all. I pray that we see you have a wonderful flying career! God Bless!

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PhillyPilot@reddit

The maximum checkride failure at the airlines right now might be 0. It all depends how the market is

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KnightGlyder@reddit

Even if it's the truth I hate this goddamn answer.

"What's that? You didn't get a test right the first time and went back to retry with more experience. Sorry, you're now career f**ked than the next guy over."

Also, if it's your CFI's fault you weren't prepared then it's your CFI's fault... unless you become aware enough about it later to understand how the preparation and call attention to it. Then it's YOUR fault and you're "not taking accountability" when you explain it to others and "pointing blame".

For an industry that claims it doesn't demand perfection it certainly likes to play it both ways regarding testing and advancement. Sure, there's nuance and you don't have to get it "perfect" just "perfect-enough".

When it comes to safety, I'm all for this, but a little more transparency and grace would be appreciated. Might as well as throw in consistency amongst examiners as well while the wishlist is going.

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Adorable-Meeting-120@reddit

The pilots before my time allowed this happen and there are plenty bootlickers on here that believe the system as it is, is just fine.

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PhillyPilot@reddit

It’s a big crapshoot for sure

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asiansociety77@reddit

NA airlines have access to your check ride failure results?

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Traditional_Sale_621@reddit

Dude you can have a fantastic flying career without the airlines. If your goal is to fly, maintain a decent standard and live happily the world is your oyster. Look at all the options. Good luck!

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SqueakyEagle@reddit

I have 3 failures. 2 for Commercial Ride and 1 for MEI. All prior to professional career. 100% pass rate for Initial Types, Recurrent’s and 297’s. No issues here. Just come away explaining what you learned and how you improved to prevent same mistake.

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Pilot-06@reddit

Cut lines for Total Hours, turbine hours, multi hours, instruction hours, failures, type of ratings held, cadet program status, and all other manner of quantitative things are loaded into the HR screening systems right now. As it stands, rarely does a human even look at a pilot application if it doesn’t fit the criteria and there are other applicants that do. Things turn around, but as has been said here probably a 100 times in the last six to eight months, nobody should expect it to go back to what it was a couple years ago.

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Pilot-06@reddit

Unfortunately for aspiring pilot and fortunately for aviation hiring departments, pilots are really easy to screen for given all the quantitative data points that people are looking for. It’s much harder to screen in other industries where resumes are just full of fluff and claims that are hard to validate.

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RobertWilliamBarker@reddit

I flew with a guy who got hired pre-easy hiring times. He has 5 failures and one intercept (first GA PPL flight ever). He got hired..... he sucked, but he got hired. Failures are an indication of lack of skill. Do better, study harder. Flying isn't for everyone.

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Arkin3375@reddit

Indication of lack of skill? Nah dude, nah

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RobertWilliamBarker@reddit

Lol..... failing a test for competency in a specific thing definition is an indication of lack of skill. You must have failed yourself and are trying up cope.

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Arkin3375@reddit

Cope? I’m a human being, a major airline pilot, recruiter, and a good cfi. I don’t need to cope, I’ve been successful in this industry.

I hope you take the time to work on yourself before you slide resumes across desks in this industry

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RobertWilliamBarker@reddit

Ok. I'll take the bait. You don't think a check ride, IOE, OE, line check etc is not a test of competency? What did I say that is wrong? People hate the truth.

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Arkin3375@reddit

In this and your Orange County post, I don’t think it’s the truth that people are hating.

I highly advise listening more and chirping less while you learn more about this industry and how to be a professional pilot

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Arkin3375@reddit

In this case and in your Orange County post, I don’t think it’s the truth that people are hating.

I highly advise listening more and chirping less while you learn more about this industry and how to be a professional pilot

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T0gaLOCK@reddit

You having 2 on instrument but nothing on your CFII shows you know the stuff now. CFI is the most failed ride I am pretty sure. I failed mine.

You shouldnt have a problem.

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Select-Storage4097@reddit

Hate to get all nerdy, but let's look at this mathematically. The average checkride pass rate is about 75%. Assuming you have a CMEL, you've been through 6 ratings. .75 to the 6th power means that the average pilot has a 17% to 18% chance of passing them all. In other words, it's highly likely that most people have a failure or two. So you have 3.... who cares. I wouldn't sweat it. Besides passing CFII the first attempt basically puts to bed any concerns about your two instrument failures. I know a few very good pilots who have failed a checkride and a few not so good ones that managed to squeak by on all of them.

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External-Essay-6928@reddit

no not at all. My instructor failed 4 and his dad failed every checkride and is a captain at south west. All they want to know is what you did wrong and that’s it. Don’t get demotivated you still got this.

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xIa81ajsj818@reddit

Seems like failure runs in the family.

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Baystate411@reddit

Don't know it was hereditary

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PG67AW@reddit

💀

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sq_lp@reddit

There is no "max."

Scenario, the pool of pilots applying for a job is 1000. 500 have no fails, 200 have 1 fail, 200 have 2, and 100 have 3. The job needs 600 applicants. How likely is it that the 100 with 3 are going to get a job?

Those 100 are competing against each other for one thing. They also have to hope that lots of people with less fails have more skeletons in their closet that put you with 3 failures above them.

In a boom it might not matter as much. Right now you have plenty of pilots with NO failures struggling to get jobs.

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NuttPunch@reddit

There is no “max” except when the algorithm reviewing the pile of applications automatically kicks out more than three checkride failures. You can say it’s dumb but “three strikes, you’re out” is ingrained in American culture so I’m willing to bet that software gets set to “three” very frequently.

So yes, to keep it simple I’d keep the mindset that at BEST three checkride failures is the max.

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LRJetCowboy@reddit

This is right ^^^

The only thing I will add is that this isn’t unusual in aviation. Years ago it was…oh no military flight time, sorry. Then it was…oh you wear glasses, sorry. And of course…oh no 4 year degree, sorry. I don’t recall anyone giving a rat’s ass about ‘failures’ back then? Guess it’s just the latest way to turn 1000 resumes into 100?

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NuttPunch@reddit

Part of that is because it was a lot easier to lie or obscure failures. It’s all digital database now for better or worse.

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LRJetCowboy@reddit

As a side note, these pilot mills also didn’t exist. You trained at the local flight school who had a good relationship with the local DPE. You didn’t get signed off until you were ready because his reputation was on the line.

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Deep-Ant1375@reddit

I disagree, I failed my first instrument check ride many years ago

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LRJetCowboy@reddit

You disagree that I never knew anyone that failed? You can’t because it’s true. I don’t know you, so you failed, but that’s not what I said.

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Dependent-Place-4795@reddit

I’m positive a lot of companies auto screen more than 2-3

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NuttPunch@reddit

That’s what I said.

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GuppyDriver737@reddit

During the peak of hiring where I work, you could have failed 3, but not 4 regular rides. And no 121 rides. Otherwise you would be kicked out. So yes there is a max. Now I would assume the standards are much higher. How often do years like 2022 and 2023 come around.

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Deep-Ant1375@reddit

There is always a job out there. It may not be what you want but just stick with it. My first instructor was a math professor who turned pilot and after instructing got a job as a private pilot and just slowly moved up the ranks. Sure it takes more time but you have gone this far. Telling you not to fail again is great advice but it isn’t practical. Just keep moving forward and deal with what you have to deal with as life moves on.

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Routine_Importance83@reddit

Just don’t suck on the job interview and company checkout flight and you’re gravy

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holdenpattern@reddit

An airline recruiter I spoke with recently said he would accept two checkride fails and wouldn’t count CFI fails among those.

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GoofyUmbrella@reddit

I don’t know how this happens. All applicants are held to the same standards with no exceptions. All DPEs conduct their checkrides according to the ACS and there is no variation from one DPE to another.

Anyone with more than 2 fails should not be allowed in an airplane.

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zero_xmas_valentine@reddit

Not sure why you're being downvoted for obvious satire

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GoofyUmbrella@reddit

I just take safety more seriously than they do.

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mad_catters@reddit

All DPEs conduct their checkrides according to the ACS and there is no variation from one DPE to another.

Lol ok man

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Gold-Weather_69@reddit

Goofball

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Dependent-Place-4795@reddit

The pilot who crashed the CRJ didn’t have any busts to my knowledge

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GoofyUmbrella@reddit

It doesn’t matter. Lots of checkride fails = unsafe pilot.

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Infinite_Cry_5792@reddit

Damn these responses are way more positive than when I asked lol. Reading these comments really helped. Good luck everybody happy flying

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AvNate95@reddit

Personal experience, I too failed three checkrides. One private, one instrument, one comm single. I'm now a captain at an airline because I finally woke up and put some more gas on the pedal. I left school feeling my dream was over and felt crazy imposter syndrome but landed a gig as a Flight Engineer instead of instructing. Let me tell you, it was an absolute baptism by fire. I had never been more overwhelmed in my life but they gave me a chance and I knew what was at stake. I havent failed a checkride since leaving school and this is multiple rides and recurrents later. Your path is never over, it just takes some side stepping and work on your end to make it all happen. If you really want to do this then you're gonna do whatever it takes to pick yourself up and dig deeper. I'm rooting for you!

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Yotafanboi77@reddit

Don't don't sweat it there are plenty of ppl with multiple checkride failures. I failed my app initial and ground oral for multi. I've been flying for the airlines for over 5 yrs

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NuttPunch@reddit

I wouldn’t bother with CFII if you can get a job and get your hours up without it.

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FlyingS892@reddit

Depending on the part of the country, CFII is the only way you can reliably get hours year round

I’m in the PNW and without your CFII, you’re severely limited like half the year

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Bowzy228@reddit

And don’t forget most places won’t even hire you if you don’t have your CFII and MEI

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balsadust@reddit

I will say I learned the most and had the most fun teaching instruments. They could not stump me at my airline interview with anything they threw at me charts or regulations wise.

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LikenSlayer@reddit

I highly suggest you start doing the other thing that guarantees you a seat. Networking!!

Not joking, I've flown with some absolute "tree stumps" that got the job because they know someone. It's as good or better than no checkride failures.

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TSells31@reddit

This is the best advice for every career path tbh. Networking is almost as important as credentials, and in a tough hiring market, it can be critical.

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LikenSlayer@reddit

Absolutely right, sometimes just knowing a person gets you in the seat without them even looking at your credentials.

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Cold_Stroll@reddit

whoever is downvoting this is a salty tree stump nepo hire whos mad

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bl4ncn0ire@reddit

Honestly if you learned from it and are able to reflect back on the experiences and extract valuable understanding from them to apply to your future as a pilot then I wouldn't see it as an issue as an employer.

If an employer is so shallow as to put your value to attempts on a test that says more about them rather than yourself, you never learn anything from successes, you learn from trial, error and failure.

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balsadust@reddit

As long as you can explain it (do not make excuses!) and what you learned you should be ok.

I've had to explain my CFI bust at every airline interview I have had.

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cl_320@reddit

How much did they care and how much explanation did they want?

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balsadust@reddit

Well seeing as I got a job offer all three times, they did not care at all.

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Typical-Buy-4961@reddit

If you are personable and cool this won’t be an issue in the right hiring environment.

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ThePrimCrow@reddit

When I was in concert choir I’d have a moment practicing where I’d just hit all.the wrong notes or fumble the lyrics. What I noticed one day was that after a good night’s sleep, I’d wake up and be able to just nail the song.

Your fumbles make you better in the long run. Take the day off before your next check ride. Do something fun, eat some good food. Get a good night’s sleep. You’re going to ace your next try.

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Arkin3375@reddit

You need time and experience separating you from these checkrides.. by the time you are eligible for the airlines you’ll have both.

I know many airline pilots with 3+ checkrides who are at the majors and legacies. Continue to learn and be a safe pilot.

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Mercury4stroke@reddit

I asked the same question a little while back. Some good info on my post as well as your post here. Don’t get discouraged by people saying you’ll never get hired. Chances are, right now they can’t get hired either because of the current hiring climate and are taking their frustrations out on this subreddit. Ignore it and keep moving forward.

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Longjumping-Offer930@reddit

From what I understand, I’ve heard of people with 5 failures making it. My recommendation is once you get to an interview have a good explanation on why you failed. Don’t try and say it was the DPE’s fault even if it was. Own up to what happened and explain how you improved your skills as a pilot.

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Fit-Club239@reddit

I failed 3 check rides. At my first CFI job I was given the opportunity by my boss now best friend to fly for his flight school. He asked me how many bust I had and I went out and told him, and I explained why and what I learned. Then after working there for two months I was promoted to Chief Flight Instructor. In that interview I summed it up by me saying that I made mistakes, but I’ll never make the same one twice. It’s not always about being perfect it’s walking in to each flight or each day of work better then yesterday. When you get your first CFI job just remember how much it fucking sucks to fail a ride. I used that mentality to over prepare my students, I ended my CFI journey 25/25 on student check rides. Now I’m on my way to my first big boy job flying private for some family! It all works out. Enjoy the journey and fly safe!

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hagrids_a_pineapple@reddit

lol chief instructor after two months?

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r361k@reddit

Nah, you're fine. Just be able to talk about them confidently and have good answers as to why you failed, what you learned and how you are a better pilot today from it. You'll be fine. I know numerous pilots at my legacy with 3+ failures. All are actually really good pilots, they just had a shitty day. I would highly highly stress not to fail anymore though, especially at your type ratings when you get to that stage in your career.

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Bfurher@reddit

Imagine passing CFII with flying colors!!

Then you’d be more confident to explain how you learned from your mistakes on the IR check rides.

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GoofyUmbrella@reddit

Nah ur good just don’t fail anymore

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Ok_Bar4002@reddit

Failures prior to 121 are just that. More like bad grades freshmen year in college. As long as you learn from them and take responsibility for it, we all have bad days. I wouldn’t fail any more because you’ve run out of rope but it’s not the end of the world if you go on to pass training and fly a jet successfully. It will be a harder interview for your first jet but after, they will see you’ve fixed it.

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But I already failed on instrument checkride twice, and once at CFI checkride. (now I have CFII)

I can't go back to correct my silly mistakes on that checkride. Past is past.

At least, I know what I missed, and I have never made the same mistake after that.

But I worried about my future career.

Someone says that if you fail more than twice in the same checkride, it can be critical.

Someone says the maximum failure airlines allow is 3, no matter what checkride you failed.

So I wonder how these mistakes will affect my career.

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