Meetings may take place in the coming days that should bring silence closer to Ukraine - Zelensky | УНН
Posted by EsperaDeus@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 90 comments
Boner-Salad728@reddit
What is this title?
Ofc course silence will be brought to Ukraine as state entity, no shit. But I thought it was called “promoting Russian aggression” in western internets, isnt it?
What happened?
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
In your fever dreams after a second bottle of vodka maybe...
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Sup, how coalition of willing is doing? Still winning?
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
What coalition of willing? So far, Ukraine is pretty well holding the ground (i.e. not losing) on their own. Weapons deliveries alone suffice for that..
I wonder how many of your compatriots you are prepared to sacrifice to feel important again. Something between 200.000 and 250.000 dead and twice to three times as many badly wounded are certainly a good price to pay for a bunch of villages destroyed to the ground?
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Pretty well? Ask those ukrainians who are kidnapped on the street to die in trenches in two weeks about how well they are holding ground.
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
How much better is it than the Russians who get arrested for minor issues and then faced with the choice of signing a contract with the army (and die in the trenches in a week) or a long jail sentence?
Boner-Salad728@reddit
No answer?
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Wow thats new. Is plain uno reverse that its Russians who are caught on the streets no longer work? Why?
Lets play a game.
Im certain you can share, say, 5 videos with such cases? Or maybe some journalist investigations with names? Any 5 anything that looks like proofs?
Then I will share 10 videos or horrific cases with names where ukrainians being brutalised on the streets by TCC.
Then we will repeat. Deal?
I can bet that you will google a little, find nothing and will find an excuse to not even start.
chillichampion@reddit
There’s no reply 😹
Boner-Salad728@reddit
No surprise, those guys roll on pure emotions and have attention span of a goldfish.
Its okay if they are teenagers, but if such people are grown men - they have problems.
VintageGriffin@reddit
A combination of simultaneous "we demand an immediate unconditional ceasefire" and "we refuse to recognize Russia's territorial gains or entertain any of their concerns" should be clueing everyone in that this has nothing to do with trying to "achieve peace", and everything to do with being in a very bad shape and desperate for a "rest and resupply" break in hostilities.
They expect to peer pressure Russia into voluntarily giving up its upper hand and momentum first, with no prospects for actually getting anything out of it, and then, maybe, we can start talking about achieving peace. Or maybe we'll just draw out the time to rebuild, recruit, re-arm, and resume hostilities.
Alexpander4@reddit
Russia invaded Ukraine! Why should Ukraine have to concede anything? Russia needs to just fuck off back to their own country!
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Simply because Ukraine lost the land on the battlefield and has no strength to win it back.
Alexpander4@reddit
True but no peace will last if Russia can just come back and invade more in five, ten years
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Why would they do it if Ukraine keeps strict neutrality, being out of NATO, with no Western troops, with the most strategically important part of Ukraine under Russian control.
Same like Russia didn't came back to Finland or Georgia.
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
>Why would they do it if Ukraine keeps strict neutrality, being out of NATO, with no Western troops, with the most strategically important part of Ukraine under Russian control.
Exactly because of all these aspects you listed.
Because then it is easy and cheap to achieve.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
It won't be easy and it won't be cheap. Ukraine neutrality does not mean the West will not help in case of an invasion.
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
Neutrality only works in one case: if it is armed (e.g. Switzerland or Sweden in Cold War) or if it is guaranteed by a force ready to fight for it (like Belgium before WW1)
If Ukraine is neutral but pretty militarised with good defensible borders, it will work. A country that cannot defend itself is not neutral, it is just easy picking. The West will only be able to help if Ukraine holds its own in the first weeks or months of the second invasion - and Russian demands are in part designed to make sure that does not happen.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Neutrality worked for Finland, they were neither armed, nor got guarantees.
Neutrality works when the cost of breaking it is lower than the benefit of respecting it.
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
And what exactly is the benefit of respecting Ukrainian neutrality is for Russia?
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Simply that NATO will not expand to Ukraine.
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
The only way that is a benefit at all is that Russia can attack Ukraine again without getting into a fight with the rest of the NATO.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Neutral Ukraine out of NATO is a benefit for Russia of course.
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
Again: the only tangible benefit of UA neutrality for Russia is the possibility of attacking them without repercussion.
Apparently, Finland and Sweden joining NATO resulted in a pretty muted reaction from Russian foreign office - exactly because they didn't have any designs on these countries, and therefore them being better defended makes no changes for RU calculations.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
So UA neutrality and being out of NATO is not a benefit to Russia, if Russia is not going to invade Ukraine ?
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
Indeed. At least certainly not a benefit worth killing hundredthousands of own people and crippling even more.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
So not having NATO troops and NATO bases right at the border with Russia is not a benefit to Russia, even if Russia is not going to attack ? Like not having your military adversary presence right at borders is not a benefit ?
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
We have a bunch of Russian military bases and Russian troops right at the border with EU (e.g. Kaliningrad) and live with that too. So can Russia.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Well yes, it would be a benefit for NATO if Russia demilitarizes Kaliningrad, even if NATO is not going to invade it.
Same as it would be a benefit for Russia, if Ukraine seeks neutrality and demilitarizes itself.
Alexpander4@reddit
Why did they do it in 2014 in breach of the treaty? Then after peace was negotiated, did it again in 2022. If it was your home, would you trust them to keep their word?
As for why, probably because they thought it would be easy, and the mineral wealth.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Budapest memorandum was not a binding treaty. And Russia argued the 2013 Maidan (supported by US) breached the memorandum first.
Minsk agreements were not a peace deal, it was an agreement to implement specific steps to solve the question of Donbass, where both sides where not very keen to fulfill it.
TheGuy839@reddit
But why should it concede without any future security? Without West boots on the ground, Russia will break again and continue where it left off. Especially because Russian "agreements" dont allow Ukraine to import weapons from West.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Because there is no other choice ? West now obviously does not want Ukraine in NATO and does not want boots on the ground. Ukraine can't force it, Ukraine has no leverage on that - so Ukraine is not conceding anything in this regard.
TheGuy839@reddit
Well saying "no other choices" is quite naive. Geo politics is always changing and its almost impossible to oredict what is going to happen. Sometimes its worth to wait a bit, sometimes is not. Just because you dont see choice they might.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
I think it's naive to believe Ukraine will get US/NATO security guarantees.
chillichampion@reddit
Childlike thinking.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Simply because Ukraine lost the land on the battlefield and has no strength to win it back.
VintageGriffin@reddit
United States invaded Syria! Why should Syria have to concede their oil fields to American occupation? United States just needs to fuck off back to their own country!
Israel invaded Palestine! Why should Palestine have to concede their territory? Israel needs to just fuck off back to their own country!
Country X invaded country Y! Why should Y have to concede anything? X it needs to just fuck off back to their own country!
Your post displays an amazing lack of nuance, and childlike levels of naivete.
Ukraine is that crazy neighbor that everyone refused to do anything about for a decade that you spent trying, so eventually you take matters into your own hands on the eve of them doing something that endangers yourself, your property and your family.
Alexpander4@reddit
Yes
Yes
Yes
Don't be a prick and invade people 👍🏻
VintageGriffin@reddit
Where are the sanctions and international condemnation though?
Alexpander4@reddit
Hypocrisy. I for one would like to see the US and their pissbaby sugar daddy Russia burn in hell of their own making.
HavokSupremacy@reddit
compromise on what, the death of Ukraine as a country? do you realize what you are spouting and how out of touch with the situation you actually are?
Russia has never even tried to compromise. all it wants is the total dismantling of the ukrainian government and total gain of territory with no repercussion. there is no compromise being made here. go spout your propaganda elsewhere.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Russia made significant concessions during the Istanbul peace talks of Apr. 2022.
If you study the draft documents you will notice the absence of any and all territorial claims, which for a country that is supposedly doing all of this for a "land grab" is the most significant concession of them all.
The only terms present in the document where designed to make Ukraine a non-threat to Russia, by forbidding their inclusion in NATO and its structures, as well as reducing the amount of their armed forces. Which coincide with Russia's earlier claims for why the conflict was started in the first place.
That document was ready to be signed by both parties before UK got involved and scuttled the whole effort. Please don't try to lecture me about propaganda.
loggy_sci@reddit
Why on earth would Ukraine demilitarize? Russia includes poison pills in its agreements thst it knows Ukraine cannot accept. Russia negotiates in bad faith.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Because the alternative is the demilitarization the hard way; as you can witness taking place right now; along with the destruction of the infrastructure, economy, demographics, and territory losses.
The alternative to your poison pill is a Russian roulette with all six chambers loaded.
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
With other words: disarm so I can take you out at the next available opportunity, or I will try to take you out now when you are still armed.
It is not particularly difficult to understand that the second option gives somewhat better odds to the attacked.
VintageGriffin@reddit
No matter how you try to spin it - it's still a choice between getting attacked right now with a 100% certainty or maybe getting attacked in the future.
And all of this happening not within the confines of some kind of theoretical think tank scenario, but after Ukraine having already suffered significant casualties and loss of territory and the choice is to either stop this or continue with the grinder.
Abject-Investment-42@reddit
>No matter how you try to spin it - it's still a choice between getting attacked right now with a 100% certainty or maybe getting attacked in the future.
No, it's a choice between being 100% certainty of being atacked right now while you can still defend yourself, or being maybe attacked in the future while not being capable of self defence, wit the attacker making it very clear that their ultimate goal will always remain your submission.
With other words, the estimated odds of an attack in future are so high that this is a worse option.
loggy_sci@reddit
So demilitarize and ensure that they can’t fight back against Russian aggression, when Russia violates its agreements yet again? No nation would accept this, and would choose to defend themselves.
Your comment sounds like an abuser. Accept my abuse or I’ll do it even worse next time. Russian propaganda is insane.
jorel43@reddit
They are going to lose anyways, they have no choice. If they don't take this deal now it's going to be worse for them later because the only thing Russia will accept at that time is unconditional surrender, And at that point you're going to have 12 provinces that Russia will take versus four.
loggy_sci@reddit
If Russia is unable to accept terms that Ukraine can live with, then Russia will have to take it by force. If Russia wants peace then should be willing to make a reasonable deal. They don’t want peace, they want to achieve all their war goals without having to fight.
VintageGriffin@reddit
You are not a man of great sophistication, are you. I find it hard to argue with someone who does not appear to understand analogies.
Ukraine had the option to put a stop to 3 years of death, destruction and mayhem, but rejected it on a "chance" that this "might" happen to them in the future; instead choosing to let it happen right here, right now, and with absolute certainty.
What kind of argument is "well l, if we agreed then whatever is happening to us right now could have potentially maybe happened to us in the future" anyway?
But to make it absolutely sure I get my point across, let me break it down to the absolute most basic arguments I can come up with:
loggy_sci@reddit
Your analogy is bad: either accept an agreement with Russia that contains insane demands, or accept a loaded gun that Russia forces you to put to your head and pull the trigger. What the fuck kind of choice is that? Abide by the commands of a country or die? Give me a fucking break.
3 years later and Russia has not demilitarized Ukraine, so your 2nd example makes zero sense. You’re so hell bent on defending Russia and spewing Russian propaganda that you don’t even bother to think it thru. You’re a joke.
salzbergwerke@reddit
Show me one Agreement between Russia and Ukraine that wasn’t broken on the side of the aggressor and we can start a serious conversation.
KronusTempus@reddit
An American talking about negotiating in bad faith…that’s rich
loggy_sci@reddit
Be less bigoted and cowardly and tell everyone where you’re from, “multinational”.
Glass-Shock5882@reddit
Really are one of the dumbest posters on the board, huh? Still passing off this nonsense? Never change, tovarisch, never change.
Russians really are the worst bad faith actors on the planet, huh? Scum.
Jopelin_Wyde@reddit
Half the commenters (if not more) here are literal Russians, lol. They've been astroturfing this sub for years. At least now they are getting more open about using Russia flairs.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Booo!
Check your dildo for a Russian bomb, paradise dweller, for we are coming for you.
kwonza@reddit
Contributed nothing but insults and racism, huh?
Glass-Shock5882@reddit
Why engage genuinely with bad faith actors?
ShootmansNC@reddit
Says the bad faith actor.
Glass-Shock5882@reddit
What about what I said is bad faith? I see you can read, but clearly lack comprehension.
Fit_Rice_3485@reddit
“What about what I said is bad faith”
The man your responded to provided a link that supports his argument
And you responded with racist insults
kwonza@reddit
Because some people aren’t wrong, they are just lost. Talking to them will help to find a middle ground
Glass-Shock5882@reddit
There is no middle ground to be found when your action is predictated purely on lies and misinformation. It's the same "middle ground" the US had in Iraq. Fuck off. They ignored Budapest, and the poster for the past, who knows, spreads that bullshit about Istanbul. He probably also believes Nuland was behind Maidan. These people's brains are fucking cooked.
J3sush8sm3@reddit
The irony of saying someones brain is cooked after a long ramble
RoostasTowel@reddit
Why did you then?
VintageGriffin@reddit
Excellent argumentation, as always.
Glass-Shock5882@reddit
And you've been debunked a myriad of times. Go away. The game you play is boring. Subs turned to absolute shit over the past... 12-18 months, this garbage is a major reason why.
They broke Budapest. They did annex the land so it's quite literally a land grab. Bringing up a terrible proposal does prove shit.
Mekktron@reddit
Hey, sir! This is Reddit! Get your logic out of here and join the mindless bashing! No arguments are allowed, the keyboard warriors won't allow it!
TheGuy839@reddit
Ironic as that comment is avoiding nost of the logic. They ignore that Russia wasnt allowing Ukraine to import weapons from West to protect future self. They ignore that Russia wasnt allowing any security guarantees from the West.
If one side cant import nor produce weapons while other can and other side can attack again its not peace agreement, its a pause.
Also Russia broke peace agreement to attack Ukraine, how can you trust their future peace agreement without any security from West?
HavokSupremacy@reddit
yeah you're nicely omitting the big fact that for that draft document to pass. Ukraine had to stop all import of military aid from the west.
as well as this..small, but very small point...
China and Russia have a veto over the mechanism for responding to future armed conflict in Ukraine by making China and Russia Ukraine’s security guarantors and granting the United Nations Security Council the authority to take “measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.” China and Russia are permanent members of the UNSC and can use their veto power to block responses to future Russian aggression under these conditions.
please stop taking people for idiots by omitting how all the other demands were effectively akin to just handing the reign of the country to Russia.
that's not compromising. that,s just attempted power grab.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Ukraine was ready to sign that document then and there, regardless of the opinion you might have of its conditions right now. These conditions were acceptable to them at the time. Conceding on multiple points is generally what happens when you are in a losing situation.
And I completely don't understand this argument that, well, if Ukraine accepted it, that would have opened them up for a potential invasion in the future. Ok, by not accepting it you are getting your invasion right here, and right now. Is this any better?
TheGuy839@reddit
Mate your logic is deeply flawed.
So even if you dont agree on first 4 points being valid. Its obvious why Russia is playing dumb. Agreement without west security is not agreement in Ukraine eyes, its bait.
HavokSupremacy@reddit
curious. they didn't sign it tho.
Fit_Rice_3485@reddit
“They didn’t sign it tho”
Go check what the mediators and the people involved in the deal said
Ukraine were ready to sign it until its western partners pressured them not to
ShootmansNC@reddit
I guess even poland is spreading russian propaganda now.
https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/04/25/ukraine-must-make-compromises-to-obtain-peace-with-russia-says-polish-president/
HavokSupremacy@reddit
they sure are winning it after how many years and how much damage to their economy so far? Am i right?
It doesn't look like Russia will be in a better state than Ukraine by the end of it.
Heh petulant, that's rich.
Fit_Rice_3485@reddit
“How much damage to their economy so far”
Their economic damage is overstated. According to western press they were supposed to have collapsed on 2023 and yet they are making weapons at an unprecedented rate
“It doesn’t look like Russia will be in a better state”
Millions of people will leave Ukraine when the borders are opened. Millions of refugees that die will not return
Ukraine is geographically dead
KronusTempus@reddit
People often try to say “Russia’s economy is the size of Italy’s” which is true…if you measure it in dollars.
Russians in Russia do not use dollars of course and this is something that western analysts seem to have missed when predicting the imminent collapse of the economy in 2023-2024.
KronusTempus@reddit
You really don’t understand anything about this conflict. The territorial gains were only mentioned as a goal after the initial failure to topple the Kiev regime, it’s a cope—“if we can’t have this, we will have that instead”.
Russia is winning on the battlefield and the longer this goes on the more land Ukraine will have to give up. Russia’s military is much stronger than it was in 2022, this is something the supreme allied commander of nato in Europe has said and largely uses volunteers to fight.
Ukraine is entirely conscript based and there are growing internal tensions in the government. If you speak the language and are able to follow events you can see that Zaluzhni is angling to run for President, and Klichko (mayor of Kiev) who tries to pose as something resembling opposition (there is of course no genuine opposition allowed) is now saying that Ukraine will have to give up land.
It’s over, the sooner they sign the deal the better off Ukraine will be—but of course Zelenskyy will 100% be removed from power and that’s something he personally does not want. It’s similar with Netenyahu in Israel.
Reasonable-Ad4770@reddit
How can he hope achieve peace then when the enemy is ultimate orcish evil that cannot be reasoned with?
kobachi@reddit
Are you seriously arguing in favor of the aggressor who flagrantly violated international law?
Hyndis@reddit
There is no such thing as international law. There is no supra-national entity capable of enforcing it. There are only frameworks that countries voluntarily agree to abide by, and only for as long as it suits them.
If you want to enforce something on a country you need to be able to use the credible threat of or actual violence to force compliance. No NATO country is willing to go boots on the ground to fight Russia to enforce anything, and everyone (except Ukraine) knows this.
This isn't like the first Iraq war where a large number of countries went to defend Kuwait. There's simple no will from any of the major players to shed any blood on behalf of Ukraine.
kobachi@reddit
Congrats on saying nothing but that’s how all law works
AnoniMiner@reddit
He's not wrong though. Meetings will take place in the near future that will bring silence to Ukraine. It's just not a silence that will be on terms he'll appreciate.
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